[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
O.K. I get it. Here is simplified discussion that explains it in a way I can understand. It talks of how a person behaves when the gunas are "overcome" in a human being. Basically, it sounds pretty much like non-reactive detachment, objective assessment from a place of equanimity, a conscious connection with "divine" energy. http://www.hinduwebsite.com/gunas.asp http://www.hinduwebsite.com/gunas.asp MMY was Hindu. Basically all of his teachings reflect Hinduism. Hinduism is not opposed to Christianity, necessarily (although Christianity would, in theory, be opposed to Hinduism). He adds his personal twist. TM is a meditation technique that can be divorced from the underlying philosophy/religion from which it emerged through MMY. So is mindfulness or yoga. However, if one desires to look at the philosophy underlying the progression through these states of consciousness, to, as MMY seems to believe, be able to achieve "moksha" in this lifetime, one will be introduced to the Guru and to Hinduism. I am still blown away by this bold assertion of his, particularly if applied to guarantees for the masses. (John, I thought this was your own personal idea, which is why I pressed you on it.) However, it could be truewe don't *really* know, imho. Having never met MMY or studied his teachings, I don't have the qualifications to discuss his translations or beliefs. But, I do attempt to understand the concepts of what is being said, from a layman's perspective. It's a learning experience for me as I travel along. Thanks for putting up with me. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : BG III 27: prakRteH kriyamaaNaani guNaiH karmaaNi sarvasaH || ahan.kaara-vimuuDhaatmaa kartaaham iti manyate. MMY's translation: Actions are in every case performed by the guNas of Nature. He whose mind is deluded by the sense of 'I' holds 'I am the doer'.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Just for fun, let's make the original word order more "logical", corresponding more closely to the translation: karmaaNi sarvasaH kriyamaaNaani prakRter guNaiH. ahan.kaara-vimuuDhaatmaa (vimuuDha+aatmaa) manyata [sic!] iti: kartaaham (kartaa + aham).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
BG III 27: prakRteH kriyamaaNaani guNaiH karmaaNi sarvasaH || ahan.kaara-vimuuDhaatmaa kartaaham iti manyate. MMY's translation: Actions are in every case performed by the guNas of Nature. He whose mind is deluded by the sense of 'I' holds 'I am the doer'.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Fascinating. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Thx, the definitiveness of MMY's assertion as stated before is his personal opinion. In the Kriya Yoga Tradition, even advanced Yogis who can leave their bodies at will may have karma to work out, in which case they ascend to the Hiranyaloka astral plane to be instructed by Sri Yukteswar. Available online in the Autobiography of a Yogi, chapter entitled "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar". ... "As prophets are sent on earth to help men work out their physical karma, so I have been directed by God to serve on an astral planet as a savior," Sri Yukteswar explained. "It is called Hiranyaloka or 'Illumined Astral Planet.' There I am aiding advanced beings to rid themselves of astral karma and thus attain liberation from astral rebirths. The dwellers on Hiranyaloka are highly developed spiritually; all of them had acquired, in their last earth-incarnation, the meditation-given power of consciously leaving their physical bodies at death. No one can enter Hiranyaloka unless he has passed on earth beyond the state of sabikalpa samadhi into the higher state of nirbikalpa Samadhi There is a similar set of assertions in the Sant Mat Tradition. Jai Guru Sri Yukteswar "
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Thx, the definitiveness of MMY's assertion as stated before is his personal opinion. In the Kriya Yoga Tradition, even advanced Yogis who can leave their bodies at will may have karma to work out, in which case they ascend to the Hiranyaloka astral plane to be instructed by Sri Yukteswar. Available online in the Autobiography of a Yogi, chapter entitled "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar". ... "As prophets are sent on earth to help men work out their physical karma, so I have been directed by God to serve on an astral planet as a savior," Sri Yukteswar explained. "It is called Hiranyaloka or 'Illumined Astral Planet.' There I am aiding advanced beings to rid themselves of astral karma and thus attain liberation from astral rebirths. The dwellers on Hiranyaloka are highly developed spiritually; all of them had acquired, in their last earth-incarnation, the meditation-given power of consciously leaving their physical bodies at death. No one can enter Hiranyaloka unless he has passed on earth beyond the state of sabikalpa samadhi into the higher state of nirbikalpa Samadhi There is a similar set of assertions in the Sant Mat Tradition. Jai Guru Sri Yukteswar "
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
It is true that one can only surmise about what one doesn't have direct experience of. I am not questioning the TM technique, transcending, or CC as a state of being. I was questioning whether innate qualities in a human being (gunas) can be dispelled. I was primarily curious as to your definitive statement that attaining CC frees one from one's karma...in *this* lifetime. That isn't something I believe we can know and so I wanted to better understand why you wrote this. You haven't yet addressed it, however, and I'm fine with leaving the conversation where it lies. P.S. I have known one person who believes that they have addressed all their karma in this lifetime and will not have to suffer through another incarnation. I remain skeptical of all such claims. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, The simplest way for me to describe the technique is that all TMers can experience transcendental consciousness or bliss consciousness, although the experience is only temporary. Other meditators call it "samadhi", which is the generic term to describe this level of consciousness. TM studies have quantified this state in terms of brain wave data. The meditator can have replicable and repeated experience of this TC which is described by MMY in his commentarty to the Gita and the "Science of Being and the Art of Living." It's not difficult to imagine what cosmic consciousness would be like--which is permanent bliss consciousness during the waking, dreaming and deep sleep states The facts that you copied in Wikipedia are correct. But they lack the first hand experience of "transcending" during the TM practice. As you get familiar with transcending you can read MMY's commentary to the Gita to compare your experience with what MMY was describing. The only way for you to understand MMY's commentarty is to experience the process of transcending which will eventually give you the knowledge of what cosmic consciousness or the higher states of consciousness would be like. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : John, you write with a lot of clarity and responded to the "bondage" associated with being influenced by Gunas, as interpreted through MMY. Wikipedia says the following about Guna "Chapters 3, 7, 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bhagavad Gita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita discuss Guna.[27] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-ckc-27 Verse 17.2 refers to the three Guna – sattvic, rajasic and tamasic – as innate nature (psychology or personality of an individual).[28] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-28[29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-gideon-29 Sattvic guna is one driven by what is pure, truth, compassionate, without craving, doing the right because it is right, positive and good. Tamasic guna is one driven by what is impure, dark, destructive, aimed to hurt another, contemptuous, negative and vicious. Rajasic guna is one that is ego-driven, out of personal passion, active, ostentatious, seeking the approval of others.[27] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-ckc-27[29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-gideon-29 " I am questioning this sentence: "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime." Specifically, I am questioning your statement that attaining cosmic consciousness and enlightenment (as defined by MMY) will free a person from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. Perhaps you mean that TM helps to *smooth out* the influence or intensity of the "gunas," as qualities in a personality. These gunas, *innate* as they are to human personality are never fully eliminated or "dispelled" are they? There was ample evidence here during the first couple of years I was here, that in fact, TM meditation or not, these Gunas representing feelings and actions (e.g., compassion, contempt) were alive and well in all the posters. I also question the idea that attaining "enlightenment" by way of a TM practice will free one from one's karma (I assume you mean negative) *in this lifetime.* That is a very bold statement. How do you know this? Is it something we can know, as human beings? Perhaps it is more that TM meditation serves as a tool to resolve and put to rest perceived negative karma in this lifetime, perhaps as a result of new actions reflecting the qualities of a Sattvic guna . ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, The Gita states that humans are in bondage due to the gunas and karma. MMY mentions in his commentary that we are all affected by the gunas since these are related to the basic elements such as earth, water, fire, air and ether. Since we are composed of these elements, we are therefore a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Emily, The simplest way for me to describe the technique is that all TMers can experience transcendental consciousness or bliss consciousness, although the experience is only temporary. Other meditators call it "samadhi", which is the generic term to describe this level of consciousness. TM studies have quantified this state in terms of brain wave data. The meditator can have replicable and repeated experience of this TC which is described by MMY in his commentarty to the Gita and the "Science of Being and the Art of Living." It's not difficult to imagine what cosmic consciousness would be like--which is permanent bliss consciousness during the waking, dreaming and deep sleep states The facts that you copied in Wikipedia are correct. But they lack the first hand experience of "transcending" during the TM practice. As you get familiar with transcending you can read MMY's commentary to the Gita to compare your experience with what MMY was describing. The only way for you to understand MMY's commentarty is to experience the process of transcending which will eventually give you the knowledge of what cosmic consciousness or the higher states of consciousness would be like. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : John, you write with a lot of clarity and responded to the "bondage" associated with being influenced by Gunas, as interpreted through MMY. Wikipedia says the following about Guna "Chapters 3, 7, 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bhagavad Gita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita discuss Guna.[27] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-ckc-27 Verse 17.2 refers to the three Guna – sattvic, rajasic and tamasic – as innate nature (psychology or personality of an individual).[28] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-28[29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-gideon-29 Sattvic guna is one driven by what is pure, truth, compassionate, without craving, doing the right because it is right, positive and good. Tamasic guna is one driven by what is impure, dark, destructive, aimed to hurt another, contemptuous, negative and vicious. Rajasic guna is one that is ego-driven, out of personal passion, active, ostentatious, seeking the approval of others.[27] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-ckc-27[29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-gideon-29 " I am questioning this sentence: "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime." Specifically, I am questioning your statement that attaining cosmic consciousness and enlightenment (as defined by MMY) will free a person from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. Perhaps you mean that TM helps to *smooth out* the influence or intensity of the "gunas," as qualities in a personality. These gunas, *innate* as they are to human personality are never fully eliminated or "dispelled" are they? There was ample evidence here during the first couple of years I was here, that in fact, TM meditation or not, these Gunas representing feelings and actions (e.g., compassion, contempt) were alive and well in all the posters. I also question the idea that attaining "enlightenment" by way of a TM practice will free one from one's karma (I assume you mean negative) *in this lifetime.* That is a very bold statement. How do you know this? Is it something we can know, as human beings? Perhaps it is more that TM meditation serves as a tool to resolve and put to rest perceived negative karma in this lifetime, perhaps as a result of new actions reflecting the qualities of a Sattvic guna . ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, The Gita states that humans are in bondage due to the gunas and karma. MMY mentions in his commentary that we are all affected by the gunas since these are related to the basic elements such as earth, water, fire, air and ether. Since we are composed of these elements, we are therefore affected by the gunas-- and so are the other living beings that inhabit the earth. The TM tradition interprets the method to avoid the influence of the "gunas" by merely being without them as stated in Chapter 2 of the Gita. This is the reason why TMers meditate to dispel these gunas. Hence, over time the meditator can learn to maintain transcendental consciousness or "bliss consciousness" during the waking portion of our life. Over time, the bliss consciousness can be maintained during the sleeping and dreaming stage of life. When bliss consciousness if permanently maintained during the various stages of life, the TM tradition states that the person has reached "cosmic consciousness", the level in which the person attains "heaven here on earth". These are all mentioned in MMY's commentary to the Gita. He also wro
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Thx, still doesn't account for the probable fact that Enlightened people can perform Adharmic acts on a Tamasic level such as taking advantage of women and extracting money from followers. Are you suggesting that the relative "person" is not responsible for these acts? ... These considerations can easily slip into Neo-Advaita, which would generate a false list of non-sequiturs as follows. [my comments in brackets] 1. The Self is free of karma; i.e. the true Identity as pure Consciousness, as stated in the Upanishads. [true] 2. When one realizes the Self in Unity, since the Self is free of karma, one is free of karma, especially the bad karma of the past and the tendency to generate new bad karma. [false. This is a Neo-Advaitic misconception in that it separates "a person" into dual aspects of the Self and the relative, then discards the relative part. False because "a person" is both relative and Absolute together as one, not the Self separate from the relative. If the latter were true, then we could say that after E., karma is simply irrelevant and doesn't affect "us".] 3. [another false assumption is that the Gunas automatically shift from possibly Tamasic to Sattvic immediately when one becomes E. This is MMY's error. There's no law that says this is true. If somebody is dishonest before E, they must might be dishonest after E To conclude, MMY falsely asserts that people after E. are 1. incapable iof maning "mistaking" and are incapable of what might be considered evil acts such as taking advantage of women and extracting money from the Organization. MMY never addressed these obvious facts which undermine his claims as to freedom from karma.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
John, you write with a lot of clarity and responded to the "bondage" associated with being influenced by Gunas, as interpreted through MMY. Wikipedia says the following about Guna "Chapters 3, 7, 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bhagavad Gita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita discuss Guna.[27] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-ckc-27 Verse 17.2 refers to the three Guna – sattvic, rajasic and tamasic – as innate nature (psychology or personality of an individual).[28] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-28[29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-gideon-29 Sattvic guna is one driven by what is pure, truth, compassionate, without craving, doing the right because it is right, positive and good. Tamasic guna is one driven by what is impure, dark, destructive, aimed to hurt another, contemptuous, negative and vicious. Rajasic guna is one that is ego-driven, out of personal passion, active, ostentatious, seeking the approval of others.[27] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-ckc-27[29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a#cite_note-gideon-29 " I am questioning this sentence: "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime." Specifically, I am questioning your statement that attaining cosmic consciousness and enlightenment (as defined by MMY) will free a person from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. Perhaps you mean that TM helps to *smooth out* the influence or intensity of the "gunas," as qualities in a personality. These gunas, *innate* as they are to human personality are never fully eliminated or "dispelled" are they? There was ample evidence here during the first couple of years I was here, that in fact, TM meditation or not, these Gunas representing feelings and actions (e.g., compassion, contempt) were alive and well in all the posters. I also question the idea that attaining "enlightenment" by way of a TM practice will free one from one's karma (I assume you mean negative) *in this lifetime.* That is a very bold statement. How do you know this? Is it something we can know, as human beings? Perhaps it is more that TM meditation serves as a tool to resolve and put to rest perceived negative karma in this lifetime, perhaps as a result of new actions reflecting the qualities of a Sattvic guna . ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, The Gita states that humans are in bondage due to the gunas and karma. MMY mentions in his commentary that we are all affected by the gunas since these are related to the basic elements such as earth, water, fire, air and ether. Since we are composed of these elements, we are therefore affected by the gunas-- and so are the other living beings that inhabit the earth. The TM tradition interprets the method to avoid the influence of the "gunas" by merely being without them as stated in Chapter 2 of the Gita. This is the reason why TMers meditate to dispel these gunas. Hence, over time the meditator can learn to maintain transcendental consciousness or "bliss consciousness" during the waking portion of our life. Over time, the bliss consciousness can be maintained during the sleeping and dreaming stage of life. When bliss consciousness if permanently maintained during the various stages of life, the TM tradition states that the person has reached "cosmic consciousness", the level in which the person attains "heaven here on earth". These are all mentioned in MMY's commentary to the Gita. He also wrote about these in his "Science of Being and Art of Living". In my opinion, this is the gift that Guru Dev and MMY have brought to the world. Any more questions? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Just fyi, I wasn't questioning the first sentence here. I was questioning the second sentence and how you know this. "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yifuxero, I've read MMY's commentary to the B Gita several times over the years. And I've always found something insightful about TM and its relationship to the Gita. His commentary gives a first hand account of how to understand the the meditation experience as to what is transcendental conscious and when one has reached cosmic consciousness or God consciousness.. These terms are specific and are unique to the TM method. But the other meditation techniques probably have the same levels of consciousness but are labelled with different names. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Thx Jr_esq for your comment below: "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead o
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Emily, The Gita states that humans are in bondage due to the gunas and karma. MMY mentions in his commentary that we are all affected by the gunas since these are related to the basic elements such as earth, water, fire, air and ether. Since we are composed of these elements, we are therefore affected by the gunas-- and so are the other living beings that inhabit the earth. The TM tradition interprets the method to avoid the influence of the "gunas" by merely being without them as stated in Chapter 2 of the Gita. This is the reason why TMers meditate to dispel these gunas. Hence, over time the meditator can learn to maintain transcendental consciousness or "bliss consciousness" during the waking portion of our life. Over time, the bliss consciousness can be maintained during the sleeping and dreaming stage of life. When bliss consciousness if permanently maintained during the various stages of life, the TM tradition states that the person has reached "cosmic consciousness", the level in which the person attains "heaven here on earth". These are all mentioned in MMY's commentary to the Gita. He also wrote about these in his "Science of Being and Art of Living". In my opinion, this is the gift that Guru Dev and MMY have brought to the world. Any more questions? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Just fyi, I wasn't questioning the first sentence here. I was questioning the second sentence and how you know this. "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yifuxero, I've read MMY's commentary to the B Gita several times over the years. And I've always found something insightful about TM and its relationship to the Gita. His commentary gives a first hand account of how to understand the the meditation experience as to what is transcendental conscious and when one has reached cosmic consciousness or God consciousness.. These terms are specific and are unique to the TM method. But the other meditation techniques probably have the same levels of consciousness but are labelled with different names. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Thx Jr_esq for your comment below: "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. As such, it is possible to be detached or maintain Self consciousness permanently while engaging in actions while living here on earth. MMY coined the phrase, "heaven on earth." Right, that's MMY's opinion, but there are differences in some other Traditions. Also, the notion that Enlightened people are free from the bondage of karma, this may not be true. The Self is already free from karma no matter what state, but we are talking about the relative body and subtle body. How about the cases of notorious Enlightened (probably) Gurus who abuse women and are obviously greedy? Are they free? I dount it! Some example of different opinions in other Traditions: 1. In the Sant Mat Tradition, people are not free of karma until they are able to travel out of the body at will, including at the time of death. 2. In the Kriya Yoga Tradition,, freedom from the clutches of karma requires to signs of development:: First, Enlightenment, and Second, being able to travel out of the body at the time of death, (willfully and at the time of one's choosing)). This grants the candidate entry into the Higher astral plane, Hiranyaloka, which is occupied by many types of Beings, but also those Enlightened people who have not fully worked out their karma. But again, this is only for the advanced Enlightened people who can travel out of their bodies willfully at the time of death. Then, after staying in Hiranyaloka for a time and being instructed by Advanced Teachers such as Sri Yukteswar, only then are they able to access the Causal plane. All of this is discussed in the article "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar", (enter that into Google). It's a Chapter in Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi. SHALOM ."
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Just fyi, I wasn't questioning the first sentence here. I was questioning the second sentence and how you know this. "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yifuxero, I've read MMY's commentary to the B Gita several times over the years. And I've always found something insightful about TM and its relationship to the Gita. His commentary gives a first hand account of how to understand the the meditation experience as to what is transcendental conscious and when one has reached cosmic consciousness or God consciousness.. These terms are specific and are unique to the TM method. But the other meditation techniques probably have the same levels of consciousness but are labelled with different names. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Thx Jr_esq for your comment below: "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. As such, it is possible to be detached or maintain Self consciousness permanently while engaging in actions while living here on earth. MMY coined the phrase, "heaven on earth." Right, that's MMY's opinion, but there are differences in some other Traditions. Also, the notion that Enlightened people are free from the bondage of karma, this may not be true. The Self is already free from karma no matter what state, but we are talking about the relative body and subtle body. How about the cases of notorious Enlightened (probably) Gurus who abuse women and are obviously greedy? Are they free? I dount it! Some example of different opinions in other Traditions: 1. In the Sant Mat Tradition, people are not free of karma until they are able to travel out of the body at will, including at the time of death. 2. In the Kriya Yoga Tradition,, freedom from the clutches of karma requires to signs of development:: First, Enlightenment, and Second, being able to travel out of the body at the time of death, (willfully and at the time of one's choosing)). This grants the candidate entry into the Higher astral plane, Hiranyaloka, which is occupied by many types of Beings, but also those Enlightened people who have not fully worked out their karma. But again, this is only for the advanced Enlightened people who can travel out of their bodies willfully at the time of death. Then, after staying in Hiranyaloka for a time and being instructed by Advanced Teachers such as Sri Yukteswar, only then are they able to access the Causal plane. All of this is discussed in the article "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar", (enter that into Google). It's a Chapter in Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi. SHALOM ."
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Yifuxero, I've read MMY's commentary to the B Gita several times over the years. And I've always found something insightful about TM and its relationship to the Gita. His commentary gives a first hand account of how to understand the the meditation experience as to what is transcendental conscious and when one has reached cosmic consciousness or God consciousness.. These terms are specific and are unique to the TM method. But the other meditation techniques probably have the same levels of consciousness but are labelled with different names. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Thx Jr_esq for your comment below: "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. As such, it is possible to be detached or maintain Self consciousness permanently while engaging in actions while living here on earth. MMY coined the phrase, "heaven on earth." Right, that's MMY's opinion, but there are differences in some other Traditions. Also, the notion that Enlightened people are free from the bondage of karma, this may not be true. The Self is already free from karma no matter what state, but we are talking about the relative body and subtle body. How about the cases of notorious Enlightened (probably) Gurus who abuse women and are obviously greedy? Are they free? I dount it! Some example of different opinions in other Traditions: 1. In the Sant Mat Tradition, people are not free of karma until they are able to travel out of the body at will, including at the time of death. 2. In the Kriya Yoga Tradition,, freedom from the clutches of karma requires to signs of development:: First, Enlightenment, and Second, being able to travel out of the body at the time of death, (willfully and at the time of one's choosing)). This grants the candidate entry into the Higher astral plane, Hiranyaloka, which is occupied by many types of Beings, but also those Enlightened people who have not fully worked out their karma. But again, this is only for the advanced Enlightened people who can travel out of their bodies willfully at the time of death. Then, after staying in Hiranyaloka for a time and being instructed by Advanced Teachers such as Sri Yukteswar, only then are they able to access the Causal plane. All of this is discussed in the article "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar", (enter that into Google). It's a Chapter in Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi. SHALOM ."
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Thx Jr_esq for your comment below: "MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. As such, it is possible to be detached or maintain Self consciousness permanently while engaging in actions while living here on earth. MMY coined the phrase, "heaven on earth." Right, that's MMY's opinion, but there are differences in some other Traditions. Also, the notion that Enlightened people are free from the bondage of karma, this may not be true. The Self is already free from karma no matter what state, but we are talking about the relative body and subtle body. How about the cases of notorious Enlightened (probably) Gurus who abuse women and are obviously greedy? Are they free? I dount it! Some example of different opinions in other Traditions: 1. In the Sant Mat Tradition, people are not free of karma until they are able to travel out of the body at will, including at the time of death. 2. In the Kriya Yoga Tradition,, freedom from the clutches of karma requires to signs of development:: First, Enlightenment, and Second, being able to travel out of the body at the time of death, (willfully and at the time of one's choosing)). This grants the candidate entry into the Higher astral plane, Hiranyaloka, which is occupied by many types of Beings, but also those Enlightened people who have not fully worked out their karma. But again, this is only for the advanced Enlightened people who can travel out of their bodies willfully at the time of death. Then, after staying in Hiranyaloka for a time and being instructed by Advanced Teachers such as Sri Yukteswar, only then are they able to access the Causal plane. All of this is discussed in the article "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar", (enter that into Google). It's a Chapter in Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi. SHALOM ."
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
I see. I am extremely skeptical of such a claim for so many reasons that I won't get into them here. Its quite likely also we understand the word karma differently. MMY didn't coin the phrase, but perhaps he gave it his own definition, pursuant to the virtues of practicing TM. Thanks for the conversation. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. As such, it is possible to be detached or maintain Self consciousness permanently while engaging in actions while living here on earth. MMY coined the phrase, "heaven on earth." ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, The TM tradition and what MMY was saying are saying exactly the opposite of what you're saying. What did I say that is exactly opposite to what MMY and the TM tradition are saying? And then, why is what I said, whatever that is, exactly the opposite? I am curious. IOW, it is possible to maintain bliss consciousness in the midst of engaging in action. Did I say that it wasn't? You have to read MMY's commentary to the B Gita to understand his point. Even if you don't fully understand it, experiencing the process of transcending will eventually give you the knowledge that you need and enjoy. The beautiful thing about scripture and stories in any religion is that because they are allegorical to very large degree they are interpreted and reinterpreted across the ages. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : John, regardless of how the gunas may affect you, that does not change that fact that you are the author of your actions. And in that Brahman exists eternally without change and in that the ultimate reality of the individual soul is identical with that of the Universe, then it is only appearances that change. I would argue that you are experiencing divine consciousness, by virtue of living an ordinary or extraordinary life, whether you realize it or not. It is not possible to act in the world without influence from karma or action, imho. The beautiful thing about scripture and stories in any religion is that because they are allegorical to very large degree they are interpreted and reinterpreted across the ages. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, For most Americans and people who've grown up in the traditional western culture, usiing the term the "gunas" is a foreign word and concept. We were brought to claim responsibility for our own actions. Thus, it is inconceivable to have a foreign entity or mode of nature to take ownership of our own actions. The idea is similar to the idea that the kingdom of God is within you, as you have quoted from Luke. MMY even says that the gunas are the powers of nature that come from God. In simple terms, the gunas include the basic elements of nature such as, water, fire, earth, air and ether. They are part of us and vice versa. Thus, our thinking process and consciousness are influenced by these basic elements. MMY has explained this concept in his commentary to the B. Gita. But in my opinion, it is the natural way to explain what Jesus meant by the kingdom of God. It also explains how we can act in the world without stress and influence from karma or action. Intellectual understanding of the process is not needed. It is experienced by the process of transcending while in meditation. This process is now more natural and familiar compared to some evangelicals, like a pastor from the Philippines, who claims that he is the appointed son of God. He's even stated that we are now in the stage of "rapture" as stated in Revelations. Moreover, he claims to have inherited the resurrected body of Christ. Is he crazy? But he has a worldwide following. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : 1) You are the author of your actions. 2) Perhaps in living in the world of ordinary existence you *are* experiencing divine consciousness! "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : According to the B Gita, as explained by MMY, it is the gunas. But how can we experience divine consciousness despite acting in the world of ordinary existence?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Emily, MMY was saying that the TM practice can lead one to cosmic consciousness and enlightenment. Thus, one is freed from the bondage of actions and Karma in this lifetime. As such, it is possible to be detached or maintain Self consciousness permanently while engaging in actions while living here on earth. MMY coined the phrase, "heaven on earth." ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, The TM tradition and what MMY was saying are saying exactly the opposite of what you're saying. What did I say that is exactly opposite to what MMY and the TM tradition are saying? And then, why is what I said, whatever that is, exactly the opposite? I am curious. IOW, it is possible to maintain bliss consciousness in the midst of engaging in action. Did I say that it wasn't? You have to read MMY's commentary to the B Gita to understand his point. Even if you don't fully understand it, experiencing the process of transcending will eventually give you the knowledge that you need and enjoy. The beautiful thing about scripture and stories in any religion is that because they are allegorical to very large degree they are interpreted and reinterpreted across the ages. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : John, regardless of how the gunas may affect you, that does not change that fact that you are the author of your actions. And in that Brahman exists eternally without change and in that the ultimate reality of the individual soul is identical with that of the Universe, then it is only appearances that change. I would argue that you are experiencing divine consciousness, by virtue of living an ordinary or extraordinary life, whether you realize it or not. It is not possible to act in the world without influence from karma or action, imho. The beautiful thing about scripture and stories in any religion is that because they are allegorical to very large degree they are interpreted and reinterpreted across the ages. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, For most Americans and people who've grown up in the traditional western culture, usiing the term the "gunas" is a foreign word and concept. We were brought to claim responsibility for our own actions. Thus, it is inconceivable to have a foreign entity or mode of nature to take ownership of our own actions. The idea is similar to the idea that the kingdom of God is within you, as you have quoted from Luke. MMY even says that the gunas are the powers of nature that come from God. In simple terms, the gunas include the basic elements of nature such as, water, fire, earth, air and ether. They are part of us and vice versa. Thus, our thinking process and consciousness are influenced by these basic elements. MMY has explained this concept in his commentary to the B. Gita. But in my opinion, it is the natural way to explain what Jesus meant by the kingdom of God. It also explains how we can act in the world without stress and influence from karma or action. Intellectual understanding of the process is not needed. It is experienced by the process of transcending while in meditation. This process is now more natural and familiar compared to some evangelicals, like a pastor from the Philippines, who claims that he is the appointed son of God. He's even stated that we are now in the stage of "rapture" as stated in Revelations. Moreover, he claims to have inherited the resurrected body of Christ. Is he crazy? But he has a worldwide following. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : 1) You are the author of your actions. 2) Perhaps in living in the world of ordinary existence you *are* experiencing divine consciousness! "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : According to the B Gita, as explained by MMY, it is the gunas. But how can we experience divine consciousness despite acting in the world of ordinary existence?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Hmso this is talking of a "relative you." Good explanation. Thanks. So what you are saying is that the "relative you" is not the author of one's actions. Theoretically or philosophically you may be correct—the word "author" can be defined using different contexts, as you note. Really, it seems that what you are saying is that the "relative you" is not the *only* authorthat the cause of one's actions, or author, is attributable to many considerations. Considering the gunas as primary qualities or elements could implicate them also as causal elements in a relative you, psychologically, and tangibly in a physical you. Still, given the "relative free will" that one has in choosing the "relative deeds" that one does, the "relative you" is still author (and agent) of one's "relative actions" with respect to this "relative incarnation" on this "relative planet." Yes? I have recently been pondering this term "True self." I haven't looked it up or done any real reading on it or anything, but I wonder what it means? Seems like there is such a push to discover such a thing. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : There's a problem with the notion of a "you". The relative you and me doesn't end at the skin. There are countless karmic antecedents and interactions with contributing influences. To use an analogy, say there's a tiny whirlpool at the edge of a larger stream. The whirlpool merges with the Total stream in a transitionary way such that we can't establish exactly where the whirlpool begins and ends. The entire stream is actually the cause of the whirlpool (the latter being a part). Saying the Gunas is more accurate than saying a "you" since the relative you l is like the tiny whirlpool. At times, the tiny whirlpool may grow larger with smaller pools growing around It. Therefore, causation is difficult to assign to a particular body independent of the whole., although it's true that that "That" particular body did most of the acting, and is thus an agent. ..But not an completely independent agent. the Vegas shooter was a tiny whirlpool in the midst of a strem, sucking in thousands of people in a chain of causation. All of the causes (as Gunas), came together in that guy, Stephen. Yes, he's the agent, but along with countless other contributing factors. The totality of those causes manifest as Gunas and is a larger type of whirlpool. The energy was simply focused on his body while he fired those bullets. SHALOM However, given the free will that we supposedly have in choosing the deeds that we do, it would seem to me that for all I have recently been pondering this term "True self." I haven't looked it up or done any real reading on it or anything, but I wonder what it means? Seems like there is such a push to discover such a thing. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : There's a problem with the notion of a "you". The relative you and me doesn't end at the skin. There are countless karmic antecedents and interactions with contributing influences. To use an analogy, say there's a tiny whirlpool at the edge of a larger stream. The whirlpool merges with the Total stream in a transitionary way such that we can't establish exactly where the whirlpool begins and ends. The entire stream is actually the cause of the whirlpool (the latter being a part). Saying the Gunas is more accurate than saying a "you" since the relative you l is like the tiny whirlpool. At times, the tiny whirlpool may grow larger with smaller pools growing around It. Therefore, causation is difficult to assign to a particular body independent of the whole., although it's true that that "That" particular body did most of the acting, and is thus an agent. ..But not an completely independent agent. the Vegas shooter was a tiny whirlpool in the midst of a strem, sucking in thousands of people in a chain of causation. All of the causes (as Gunas), came together in that guy, Stephen. Yes, he's the agent, but along with countless other contributing factors. The totality of those causes manifest as Gunas and is a larger type of whirlpool. The energy was simply focused on his body while he fired those bullets. SHALOM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Hmmm.Does not Hinduism believe in the soul? Let's say, for discussion's sake, that I am equating the word "you" with soul. Then, *you* are the author of your actionsliving out, resolving and creating karma, influenced by the gunas, in spite of and despite countless contributing factors. Now, perhaps we are defining the word "you" differently? Hypothetically absolute versus relative? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Right, it's the Gunas. The idea that a "you" is problematic since the components that comprise the relative "you" are . interconnected with the environment, and in a deterministic worldview the precise author can't be determined due to the countless contributing factors. Thus, the "author" as MMY says could only be the Gunas, within the context of the Totality and of an individual body mind, the latter often being identified as a direct physical agent. Since karma is unfathomable, that means that countless prior causes may have contributed to the Vegas killer's actions, and the actual physical act is the tip of a huge iceberg of contributing factors. For purposes of justice, only the direct agent is held accountable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, The TM tradition and what MMY was saying are saying exactly the opposite of what you're saying. What did I say that is exactly opposite to what MMY and the TM tradition are saying? And then, why is what I said, whatever that is, exactly the opposite? I am curious. IOW, it is possible to maintain bliss consciousness in the midst of engaging in action. Did I say that it wasn't? You have to read MMY's commentary to the B Gita to understand his point. Even if you don't fully understand it, experiencing the process of transcending will eventually give you the knowledge that you need and enjoy. The beautiful thing about scripture and stories in any religion is that because they are allegorical to very large degree they are interpreted and reinterpreted across the ages. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : John, regardless of how the gunas may affect you, that does not change that fact that you are the author of your actions. And in that Brahman exists eternally without change and in that the ultimate reality of the individual soul is identical with that of the Universe, then it is only appearances that change. I would argue that you are experiencing divine consciousness, by virtue of living an ordinary or extraordinary life, whether you realize it or not. It is not possible to act in the world without influence from karma or action, imho. The beautiful thing about scripture and stories in any religion is that because they are allegorical to very large degree they are interpreted and reinterpreted across the ages. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, For most Americans and people who've grown up in the traditional western culture, usiing the term the "gunas" is a foreign word and concept. We were brought to claim responsibility for our own actions. Thus, it is inconceivable to have a foreign entity or mode of nature to take ownership of our own actions. The idea is similar to the idea that the kingdom of God is within you, as you have quoted from Luke. MMY even says that the gunas are the powers of nature that come from God. In simple terms, the gunas include the basic elements of nature such as, water, fire, earth, air and ether. They are part of us and vice versa. Thus, our thinking process and consciousness are influenced by these basic elements. MMY has explained this concept in his commentary to the B. Gita. But in my opinion, it is the natural way to explain what Jesus meant by the kingdom of God. It also explains how we can act in the world without stress and influence from karma or action. Intellectual understanding of the process is not needed. It is experienced by the process of transcending while in meditation. This process is now more natural and familiar compared to some evangelicals, like a pastor from the Philippines, who claims that he is the appointed son of God. He's even stated that we are now in the stage of "rapture" as stated in Revelations. Moreover, he claims to have inherited the resurrected body of Christ. Is he crazy? But he has a worldwide following. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : 1) You are the author of your actions. 2) Perhaps in living in the world of ordinary existence you *are* experiencing divine consciousness! "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : According to the B Gita, as explained by MMY, it is the gunas. But how can we experience divine consciousness despite acting in the world of ordinary existence?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
There's a problem with the notion of a "you". The relative you and me doesn't end at the skin. There are countless karmic antecedents and interactions with contributing influences. To use an analogy, say there's a tiny whirlpool at the edge of a larger stream. The whirlpool merges with the Total stream in a transitionary way such that we can't establish exactly where the whirlpool begins and ends. The entire stream is actually the cause of the whirlpool (the latter being a part). Saying the Gunas is more accurate than saying a "you" since the relative you l is like the tiny whirlpool. At times, the tiny whirlpool may grow larger with smaller pools growing around It. Therefore, causation is difficult to assign to a particular body independent of the whole., although it's true that that "That" particular body did most of the acting, and is thus an agent. ..But not an completely independent agent. the Vegas shooter was a tiny whirlpool in the midst of a strem, sucking in thousands of people in a chain of causation. All of the causes (as Gunas), came together in that guy, Stephen. Yes, he's the agent, but along with countless other contributing factors. The totality of those causes manifest as Gunas and is a larger type of whirlpool. The energy was simply focused on his body while he fired those bullets. SHALOM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Emily, The TM tradition and what MMY was saying are saying exactly the opposite of what you're saying. IOW, it is possible to maintain bliss consciousness in the midst of engaging in action. You have to read MMY's commentary to the B Gita to understand his point. Even if you don't fully understand it, experiencing the process of transcending will eventually give you the knowledge that you need and enjoy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : John, regardless of how the gunas may affect you, that does not change that fact that you are the author of your actions. And in that Brahman exists eternally without change and in that the ultimate reality of the individual soul is identical with that of the Universe, then it is only appearances that change. I would argue that you are experiencing divine consciousness, by virtue of living an ordinary or extraordinary life, whether you realize it or not. It is not possible to act in the world without influence from karma or action, imho. The beautiful thing about scripture and stories in any religion is that because they are allegorical to very large degree they are interpreted and reinterpreted across the ages. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, For most Americans and people who've grown up in the traditional western culture, usiing the term the "gunas" is a foreign word and concept. We were brought to claim responsibility for our own actions. Thus, it is inconceivable to have a foreign entity or mode of nature to take ownership of our own actions. The idea is similar to the idea that the kingdom of God is within you, as you have quoted from Luke. MMY even says that the gunas are the powers of nature that come from God. In simple terms, the gunas include the basic elements of nature such as, water, fire, earth, air and ether. They are part of us and vice versa. Thus, our thinking process and consciousness are influenced by these basic elements. MMY has explained this concept in his commentary to the B. Gita. But in my opinion, it is the natural way to explain what Jesus meant by the kingdom of God. It also explains how we can act in the world without stress and influence from karma or action. Intellectual understanding of the process is not needed. It is experienced by the process of transcending while in meditation. This process is now more natural and familiar compared to some evangelicals, like a pastor from the Philippines, who claims that he is the appointed son of God. He's even stated that we are now in the stage of "rapture" as stated in Revelations. Moreover, he claims to have inherited the resurrected body of Christ. Is he crazy? But he has a worldwide following. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : 1) You are the author of your actions. 2) Perhaps in living in the world of ordinary existence you *are* experiencing divine consciousness! "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : According to the B Gita, as explained by MMY, it is the gunas. But how can we experience divine consciousness despite acting in the world of ordinary existence?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
John, regardless of how the gunas may affect you, that does not change that fact that you are the author of your actions. And in that Brahman exists eternally without change and in that the ultimate reality of the individual soul is identical with that of the Universe, then it is only appearances that change. I would argue that you are experiencing divine consciousness, by virtue of living an ordinary or extraordinary life, whether you realize it or not. It is not possible to act in the world without influence from karma or action, imho. The beautiful thing about scripture and stories in any religion is that because they are allegorical to very large degree they are interpreted and reinterpreted across the ages. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Emily, For most Americans and people who've grown up in the traditional western culture, usiing the term the "gunas" is a foreign word and concept. We were brought to claim responsibility for our own actions. Thus, it is inconceivable to have a foreign entity or mode of nature to take ownership of our own actions. The idea is similar to the idea that the kingdom of God is within you, as you have quoted from Luke. MMY even says that the gunas are the powers of nature that come from God. In simple terms, the gunas include the basic elements of nature such as, water, fire, earth, air and ether. They are part of us and vice versa. Thus, our thinking process and consciousness are influenced by these basic elements. MMY has explained this concept in his commentary to the B. Gita. But in my opinion, it is the natural way to explain what Jesus meant by the kingdom of God. It also explains how we can act in the world without stress and influence from karma or action. Intellectual understanding of the process is not needed. It is experienced by the process of transcending while in meditation. This process is now more natural and familiar compared to some evangelicals, like a pastor from the Philippines, who claims that he is the appointed son of God. He's even stated that we are now in the stage of "rapture" as stated in Revelations. Moreover, he claims to have inherited the resurrected body of Christ. Is he crazy? But he has a worldwide following. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : 1) You are the author of your actions. 2) Perhaps in living in the world of ordinary existence you *are* experiencing divine consciousness! "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : According to the B Gita, as explained by MMY, it is the gunas. But how can we experience divine consciousness despite acting in the world of ordinary existence?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Emily, For most Americans and people who've grown up in the traditional western culture, usiing the term the "gunas" is a foreign word and concept. We were brought to claim responsibility for our own actions. Thus, it is inconceivable to have a foreign entity or mode of nature to take ownership of our own actions. The idea is similar to the idea that the kingdom of God is within you, as you have quoted from Luke. MMY even says that the gunas are the powers of nature that come from God. In simple terms, the gunas include the basic elements of nature such as, water, fire, earth, air and ether. They are part of us and vice versa. Thus, our thinking process and consciousness are influenced by these basic elements. MMY has explained this concept in his commentary to the B. Gita. But in my opinion, it is the natural way to explain what Jesus meant by the kingdom of God. It also explains how we can act in the world without stress and influence from karma or action. Intellectual understanding of the process is not needed. It is experienced by the process of transcending while in meditation. This process is now more natural and familiar compared to some evangelicals, like a pastor from the Philippines, who claims that he is the appointed son of God. He's even stated that we are now in the stage of "rapture" as stated in Revelations. Moreover, he claims to have inherited the resurrected body of Christ. Is he crazy? But he has a worldwide following. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : 1) You are the author of your actions. 2) Perhaps in living in the world of ordinary existence you *are* experiencing divine consciousness! "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : According to the B Gita, as explained by MMY, it is the gunas. But how can we experience divine consciousness despite acting in the world of ordinary existence?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
Right, it's the Gunas. The idea that a "you" is problematic since the components that comprise the relative "you" are . interconnected with the environment, and in a deterministic worldview the precise author can't be determined due to the countless contributing factors. Thus, the "author" as MMY says could only be the Gunas, within the context of the Totality and of an individual body mind, the latter often being identified as a direct physical agent. Since karma is unfathomable, that means that countless prior causes may have contributed to the Vegas killer's actions, and the actual physical act is the tip of a huge iceberg of contributing factors. For purposes of justice, only the direct agent is held accountable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is the author of our actions?
1) You are the author of your actions. 2) Perhaps in living in the world of ordinary existence you *are* experiencing divine consciousness! "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : According to the B Gita, as explained by MMY, it is the gunas. But how can we experience divine consciousness despite acting in the world of ordinary existence?
