[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
P.S.: This may be unpleasant and embarrassing for you, Curtis, but in the interests of adjusting your perspective in the direction of reality, you might want to keep an eye on Barry's FFL2 posts yourself, noting how many of them have been about moi. (Count the lies in his current post about our conversation and about my purportedly stalking him from forum to forum.) Then have a look here on FFL for how many posts I've made about Barry's FFL2 posts. Doesn't sound appealing, I know, but it'll do you good. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Well, Curtis, you've managed to nudge this discussion farther and farther away from the actual issue, which was your erroneous claims that Barry's mistake (lie?) about who started the Subud discussion was an insignificant detail, and that I had missed the point of his Is Doug Hamilton Possessed? post. This is a standard bit of your flim-flammery when you realize you're losing an argument you should never have started in the first place. And then it degenerates into meaningless insults. That's the stage we're at now. I'll leave you to continue flimming and flamming.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Well, Curtis, you've managed to nudge this discussion farther and farther away from the actual issue, which was your erroneous claims that Barry's mistake (lie?) about who started the Subud discussion was an insignificant detail, and that I had missed the point of his Is Doug Hamilton Possessed? post. This is a standard bit of your flim-flammery when you realize you're losing an argument you should never have started in the first place. And then it degenerates into meaningless insults. That's the stage we're at now. I'll leave you to continue flimming and flamming. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : snip Doug (not Buck) said he hadn't heard Maharishi say anything about Subud. (Barry made fun of him for that, but then t3rinity chimed in that he hadn't heard anything either. Another Oooopsie! for Barry.) As I said, what Doug wrote seems to me more like a call for more information, given that Wikipedia didn't say anything about its involving spirit possession. Me3: It was on TTC. I forget if Buck was made a teacher. Buck and I also heard tapes of him talking about this on our rounding courses as MIU students. So you say. I'll leave that claim for Doug to deal with if he's so inclined. Me4: We took the same rounding courses with the same tapes. So yes, that is what I am saying. Judy: Barry is the primary source of all the upheaval relating to FFL; he's the main reason for the split-off to The Peak, and for Rick deciding moderation of FFL was necessary. That's a heavy set of consequences for which Barry is very largely responsible, and he knows it (though of course he'd never admit it). He's having a really tough time dealing with it. But one thing making it easier is that he can now lie freely about FFL, its moderator, and its TM supporters. It seems to me that's a fact of potential interest to FFLers. Me2: I have people whose posts I don't read so I don't get this power he holds on you. Judy: What on earth does your DNR list have to do with anything? ME3: Because it shows how an adult would handle a situation of not liking how someone posts instead of going to read him when he posts on another site. You are powerless to avoid him like a moth to the flame. Still makes no sense to me, sorry. Me4: Nor to me. Never understood your behavior amidst your faux protest routine. Me 2:All this drama about having to create a new group because of him seems bogus to me. If you don't like someone, don't read them. If you decide to read them, then enjoy the ride you are creating by doing so. Judy2: Oh, this is just prissy high-horse rubbish, Curtis. Go back to Feste's cocktail party analogy. FFL is like a very long-running cocktail party. When it's dominated by a person who gets his jollies from sadistically attacking people, it's not that easy to ignore. You yourself agreed with me that the whole button-pushing bit is basically a crock. For that matter, you've often become quite wroth when you've been attacked. Me3: When I am I either show where I disagree, mock their attack or just skip it as I ended up doing with our most famous R. You act as if there is only one choice. Well, no, I don't, actually. I've done all three with Barry as well, as you know. Me2:I enjoy our conversations even though we don't agree on much and I often feel misrepresented by you. I don't really get why you can't see that Barry provides you with your favorite writing prompts here no matter where he is posting. Judy2: Barry does not provide me with my favorite writing prompts (what a pretentious phrase, writing prompts). Me3: It comes from schools. Those third grade teachers are so pretentious aren't they? I'm not talking about third grade teachers. I'm talking about Curtis using the phrase on FFL. Me4: Wow you really had to reach to create that insult out of nothing. Yes I used a term common in schools about things that prompt us to write. And as far as your writing history here goes, you are most prompted to write by anything that Barry says on this or any other site. J: I'd much rather write about other things (and did, when there was a pause in Barry's jihad against me). You don't provide them either, as it happens. It's a big bore to have to untangle your flim-flam. I vastly prefer discussions that are straightforward and conducted with integrity. Me3: This was worth the whole post. You do know that some of us are aware of your history of writing here right? If you tell me it has bored you or that you would rather write about other things, you are proving my point. You are powerless. And if you have not enjoyed our many long conversations as I have, you are quite pathetic since you engaged in them for so
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : (snip) Me: I'll just take you at your word. You see Barry enjoys what he is doing and doesn't complain that he would be writing all sorts of other wonderful stuff if only you would stop posting about him. (snip) Right. Neither do I make that complaint about him. You've forgotten, those are words you put in my mouth. That's a particularly egregious whopper even for you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : P.S.: This may be unpleasant and embarrassing for you, Curtis, but in the interests of adjusting your perspective in the direction of reality, you might want to keep an eye on Barry's FFL2 posts yourself, noting how many of them have been about moi. (Count the lies in his current post about our conversation and about my purportedly stalking him from forum to forum.) Then have a look here on FFL for how many posts I've made about Barry's FFL2 posts. Doesn't sound appealing, I know, but it'll do you good. Me: I'll just take you at your word. You see Barry enjoys what he is doing and doesn't complain that he would be writing all sorts of other wonderful stuff if only you would stop posting about him. I haven't ever claimed that Barry doesn't post a lot about you, he does. He doesn't pretend it is more than it is or that he doesn't enjoy it. Same for me. You are, by the numbers my favorite person to communicate with. I am not on a holy jihad of correcting your errors, (although many of my posts involve that) I am having fun typing here and you are usually game for an exchange. It gives me a prompt for writing (I know how you feel about this) in a specific direction and you are usually good for a round or two, so it works for me. You two mostly write past each other which is not as appealing for me. I was never a big fan of reading your exchanges and don't plan to start now. It is a choice, at least for me. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Well, Curtis, you've managed to nudge this discussion farther and farther away from the actual issue, which was your erroneous claims that Barry's mistake (lie?) about who started the Subud discussion was an insignificant detail, and that I had missed the point of his Is Doug Hamilton Possessed? post. This is a standard bit of your flim-flammery when you realize you're losing an argument you should never have started in the first place. And then it degenerates into meaningless insults. That's the stage we're at now. I'll leave you to continue flimming and flamming.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Well, Curtis, you've managed to nudge this discussion farther and farther away from the actual issue, which was your erroneous claims that Barry's mistake (lie?) about who started the Subud discussion was an insignificant detail, and that I had missed the point of his Is Doug Hamilton Possessed? post. Me: It remains insignificant and you had missed the point. Judy: This is a standard bit of your flim-flammery when you realize you're losing an argument you should never have started in the first place. And then it degenerates into meaningless insults. Me: I never lost any argument about Barry's big mistake. He got that insignificant detail wrong. Your pattern is to miss the forest for the trees but be too stubborn to take any feedback. It is one of your odd charms that never fails to amaze me. I can never guess which little fact you will fixate on to derail the conversation from what I consider the main point. In this case it was obviously that Buck was giving some positive spin to Subud which for an ex teacher is comical. It is like having someone post that they like to say their mantra to a Reggae rhythm while posing as a TM hard liner. It was funny. Whether or not Buck introduced the topic before he expressed his opinions on it wasn't Barry's point or the subject of my amusement about it. You were in your own rabbit hole as usual and I am left wide eyed at how you did it again. Judy That's the stage we're at now. I'll leave you to continue flimming and flamming. Me: You are saying that so I know what you are referring to when you were complaining about discussions degenerating into meaningless insults right? Are you even aware of how silly you sound with so little self awareness about your own writing? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : snip Doug (not Buck) said he hadn't heard Maharishi say anything about Subud. (Barry made fun of him for that, but then t3rinity chimed in that he hadn't heard anything either. Another Oooopsie! for Barry.) As I said, what Doug wrote seems to me more like a call for more information, given that Wikipedia didn't say anything about its involving spirit possession. Me3: It was on TTC. I forget if Buck was made a teacher. Buck and I also heard tapes of him talking about this on our rounding courses as MIU students. So you say. I'll leave that claim for Doug to deal with if he's so inclined. Me4: We took the same rounding courses with the same tapes. So yes, that is what I am saying. Judy: Barry is the primary source of all the upheaval relating to FFL; he's the main reason for the split-off to The Peak, and for Rick deciding moderation of FFL was necessary. That's a heavy set of consequences for which Barry is very largely responsible, and he knows it (though of course he'd never admit it). He's having a really tough time dealing with it. But one thing making it easier is that he can now lie freely about FFL, its moderator, and its TM supporters. It seems to me that's a fact of potential interest to FFLers. Me2: I have people whose posts I don't read so I don't get this power he holds on you. Judy: What on earth does your DNR list have to do with anything? ME3: Because it shows how an adult would handle a situation of not liking how someone posts instead of going to read him when he posts on another site. You are powerless to avoid him like a moth to the flame. Still makes no sense to me, sorry. Me4: Nor to me. Never understood your behavior amidst your faux protest routine. Me 2:All this drama about having to create a new group because of him seems bogus to me. If you don't like someone, don't read them. If you decide to read them, then enjoy the ride you are creating by doing so. Judy2: Oh, this is just prissy high-horse rubbish, Curtis. Go back to Feste's cocktail party analogy. FFL is like a very long-running cocktail party. When it's dominated by a person who gets his jollies from sadistically attacking people, it's not that easy to ignore. You yourself agreed with me that the whole button-pushing bit is basically a crock. For that matter, you've often become quite wroth when you've been attacked. Me3: When I am I either show where I disagree, mock their attack or just skip it as I ended up doing with our most famous R. You act as if there is only one choice. Well, no, I don't, actually. I've done all three with Barry as well, as you know. Me2:I enjoy our conversations even though we don't agree on much and I often feel misrepresented by you. I don't really get why you can't see that Barry provides you with your favorite writing prompts here no matter where he is posting. Judy2:
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up Me: This Judy nitpick is such a classic. It reveals both humor impairment as well as an ability to completely miss the point of the writer. It is fascinating to see it in action on someone else where it is so clear. You caught Barry in an insignificant detail about a topic's posting history, who brought the topic up. Of maybe you didn't really catch a mistake, I am not going to dig through the posts to find out if Barry even said it this way. It misses the point which is: Barry noticed that Doug was giving a positive spin on Subud which when I was made a teacher was one of the only groups of people we were not allowed to initiate. My guess is that someone from this group went all flying room at initiation because they go off whenever hypnotic conditions are present. Or maybe the very superstitions Maharishi was afraid of them. It isn't Barry accusing Buck he is making a joke which Judy completely misses because she has her must-get- Barry spin contacts on and she can't take them off. Given Buck's penchant for adapting different writing styles and old timey language Barry made a joke about Buck perhaps having an issue with spirit possession. And since I have heard from at least two Fairfielders that his persona in person is radically different from who shows up here, he may be on to something. I keep going back and forth between: she really doesn't understand a writer's point, to: she is using this distraction technique to manufacture complaints about someone who is now on a completely different forum now, but is followed by disciples here as if there was still on FFL. All I know is that Barry's spirit has possessed some people here fer real real. First he forced them to click on his posts when he was on FFL and to read whatever he wrote that offended them. Now his magical woo woo has extended across groups and he can force people who claimed they want nothing to do with him to scurry over to another group, click on what he writes, and then get their outrage buzz so they can then scurry back here and report how bad he is. If it ain't spirit possession then it is some mighty big mojo on the loose. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : BARRY BULLETIN: Barry's in a state of some considerable confusion. He's accusing Doug of having brought up Subud here and of seeming to promote it; he wonders whether Doug has been secretly *practicing* Subud for some time. Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up (see last quoted post below). Doug didn't even speak up until after Mike, Bhairitu, S3raphita, and emptybill had been discussing Subud for 10 posts. I'm telling you, it really is another world over there on FFL2. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someone back then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concern from spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis of nature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernment on this subject here? By description, Subud it seems starts with a quieting or transcending meditation and then various kriyas can start up. That evidently is not uncommon in meditative practices. Bhairitu offers, Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of removing possession. Emptybill writes: Yep, well said. Spirit possession is not related to the practice of TM or any form of yoga - whether described by Patanjali or codified in the Agamas and Tantras of Vaishnavas, Shaivas or Shaktas. MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : I'm not sure I see the point of these Barry bulletins. Why don't you post them on FFL2? Barry is no longer on this forum, and I doubt whether anyone here wants to read about him. He was booted off for very good reasons, so why keep raising his ghost here? Me: I think it is obviously because Barry cannot defend himself here. So he whole premise that he had to be removed because he was so scary and awful that tender hearts needed to be protected from him turns out to be a ruse. It is still a game of gotcha on Barry but now some posters here can do it without seeing his response on this site, they have to click another tab on their browser to get their Barry fix. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Below is Barry's comment on my bulletin (posted only a little over a half-hour later--he must have been checking FFL every hour or so). Note that he doesn't acknowledge his biggest goof, that it was Doug who brought up Subud. That wasn't part of the joke; that was Barry being so anxious to find something to bash Doug with that he just didn't notice who had made the first post. (Or maybe he did notice and figured nobody on FFL2 would bother to check, so he'd get away with the lie.) Note also that I didn't even mention the possessed idea. That was obviously what Barry thinks of as a joke and was what the smiley face referred to. And of course Doug wouldn't have bothered to respond, much less freak out. I think Barry has been *shattered* by the events of the past months, starting with the consequences of his baby-abuse post in November. And now he's penned in with people who think like he does, and none of his usual targets within easy striking distance. He's having a very tough time keeping himself together, and it's only going to get worse. Didn't you notice the smiley face at the end of my post? I was mainly joking about Doug actually practicing Subud, although the idea of him being possessed really *would* explain much. :-) I posted what I did to see whether he'd freak out and post something insane over on FFL in response. So far, the only person who has done that, however, was the Judenator. She's dumb enough to fall for *anything*. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Correct-a-mundo! Yes, I made the original post. I was bringing up the subject to see how many people remembered what Maharishi said about it. He did not like it at all. Seems he had some knowledge about it, I thought , from traveling in and around Indonesia and Singapore. He did say it had something to do with Spirit possession and caused problems with mind/body coordination. We were not to initiate anyone practicing it until they had given it up for at least six months. He, M, was very serious about it. I came away with the impression, from what M was saying, that it was worse, for your evolution, than doing drugs. From: authfriend@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 8:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers BARRY BULLETIN: Barry's in a state of some considerable confusion. He's accusing Doug of having brought up Subud here and of seeming to promote it; he wonders whether Doug has been secretly *practicing* Subud for some time. Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up (see last quoted post below). Doug didn't even speak up until after Mike, Bhairitu, S3raphita, and emptybill had been discussing Subud for 10 posts. I'm telling you, it really is another world over there on FFL2. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someone back then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concern from spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis of nature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernment on this subject here
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up Me: This Judy nitpick is such a classic. It reveals both humor impairment as well as an ability to completely miss the point of the writer. It is fascinating to see it in action on someone else where it is so clear. You caught Barry in an insignificant detail about a topic's posting history, who brought the topic up. Of maybe you didn't really catch a mistake, I am not going to dig through the posts to find out if Barry even said it this way. It misses the point which is: Barry noticed that Doug was giving a positive spin on Subud which when I was made a teacher was one of the only groups of people we were not allowed to initiate. My guess is that someone from this group went all flying room at initiation because they go off whenever hypnotic conditions are present. Or maybe the very superstitions Maharishi was afraid of them. It isn't Barry accusing Buck he is making a joke which Judy completely misses because she has her must-get- Barry spin contacts on and she can't take them off. Given Buck's penchant for adapting different writing styles and old timey language Barry made a joke about Buck perhaps having an issue with spirit possession. And since I have heard from at least two Fairfielders that his persona in person is radically different from who shows up here, he may be on to something. I keep going back and forth between: she really doesn't understand a writer's point, to: she is using this distraction technique to manufacture complaints about someone who is now on a completely different forum now, but is followed by disciples here as if there was still on FFL. All I know is that Barry's spirit has possessed some people here fer real real. First he forced them to click on his posts when he was on FFL and to read whatever he wrote that offended them. Now his magical woo woo has extended across groups and he can force people who claimed they want nothing to do with him to scurry over to another group, click on what he writes, and then get their outrage buzz so they can then scurry back here and report how bad he is. If it ain't spirit possession then it is some mighty big mojo on the loose. There's all this bleed between groups. I vote for stronger bandaids. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up Me: This Judy nitpick is such a classic. It reveals both humor impairment as well as an ability to completely miss the point of the writer. It is fascinating to see it in action on someone else where it is so clear. Looks like you're angling to take over the Master of Inadvertent Irony title, Curtis. You're so anxious to Get Judy that you completely missed *my* point. You caught Barry in an insignificant detail about a topic's posting history, who brought the topic up. Not at all insignificant. The Doug-bash Barry was intent on making wouldn't have been nearly as effective if Doug were seen to have only commented on the thread 10 posts in, rather than having initiated it as Barry claimed. Of maybe you didn't really catch a mistake, I am not going to dig through the posts to find out if Barry even said it this way. Right, Curtis, that dishonest Judy probably just made it up. Here's the beginning of the post: I ask seriously, because of a couple of threads he's ranting on over on FFL. A few days ago he brought up the practice of Subud, asking if people had ever heard Maharishi ever talk about it. (I ask seriously refers to Barry's subject heading, Is Doug Hamilton Possessed?) It misses the point which is: No, Curtis, I know what Barry's point was. Ha ha, Doug is possessed (see the subject heading). Just FYI, getting the joke does not necessarily also involve thinking it's funny. By me, this one was pretty dumb; and I was making a very different point in any case. Barry noticed that Doug was giving a positive spin on Subud It seemed to me that he was asking about the basis for the very negative spin the others were putting on it. But that isn't my point either. Basically, it's that Barry is losing it. He's so wrapped up in Doug-hatred, so obsessed with bashing Doug, that he misread Mike Dixon as DHamilton. (Or he didn't but assumed he wouldn't get caught in the lie.) Barry is the primary source of all the upheaval relating to FFL; he's the main reason for the split-off to The Peak, and for Rick deciding moderation of FFL was necessary. That's a heavy set of consequences for which Barry is very largely responsible, and he knows it (though of course he'd never admit it). He's having a really tough time dealing with it. But one thing making it easier is that he can now lie freely about FFL, its moderator, and its TM supporters. It seems to me that's a fact of potential interest to FFLers. YMMV, of course. which when I was made a teacher was one of the only groups of people we were not allowed to initiate. My guess is that someone from this group went all flying room at initiation because they go off whenever hypnotic conditions are present. Or maybe the very superstitions Maharishi was afraid of them. It isn't Barry accusing Buck he is making a joke which Judy completely misses because she has her must-get- Barry spin contacts on and she can't take them off. Given Buck's penchant for adapting different writing styles and old timey language Barry made a joke about Buck perhaps having an issue with spirit possession. And since I have heard from at least two Fairfielders that his persona in person is radically different from who shows up here, he may be on to something. I keep going back and forth between: she really doesn't understand a writer's point, to: she is using this distraction technique to manufacture complaints about someone who is now on a completely different forum now, but is followed by disciples here as if there was still on FFL. All I know is that Barry's spirit has possessed some people here fer real real. First he forced them to click on his posts when he was on FFL and to read whatever he wrote that offended them. Now his magical woo woo has extended across groups and he can force people who claimed they want nothing to do with him to scurry over to another group, click on what he writes, and then get their outrage buzz so they can then scurry back here and report how bad he is. If it ain't spirit possession then it is some mighty big mojo on the loose. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : BARRY BULLETIN: Barry's in a state of some considerable confusion. He's accusing Doug of having brought up Subud here and of seeming to promote it; he wonders whether Doug has been secretly *practicing* Subud for some time. Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up (see last quoted post below). Doug didn't even speak up until after Mike, Bhairitu, S3raphita, and emptybill had been discussing Subud for 10 posts. I'm telling you, it really is another world over there on FFL2. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote :
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Me: Touche ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : (snip) All I know is that Barry's spirit has possessed some people here fer real real. First he forced them to click on his posts when he was on FFL and to read whatever he wrote that offended them. Now his magical woo woo has extended across groups and he can force people who claimed they want nothing to do with him to scurry over to another group, click on what he writes, and then get their outrage buzz so they can then scurry back here and report how bad he is. (snip) This didn't occur to me at first, but in the above one could substitute Doug for Barry and on FFL2 for here, and it would make just as much sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : (snip) All I know is that Barry's spirit has possessed some people here fer real real. First he forced them to click on his posts when he was on FFL and to read whatever he wrote that offended them. Now his magical woo woo has extended across groups and he can force people who claimed they want nothing to do with him to scurry over to another group, click on what he writes, and then get their outrage buzz so they can then scurry back here and report how bad he is. (snip) This didn't occur to me at first, but in the above one could substitute Doug for Barry and on FFL2 for here, and it would make just as much sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up Me: This Judy nitpick is such a classic. It reveals both humor impairment as well as an ability to completely miss the point of the writer. It is fascinating to see it in action on someone else where it is so clear. Looks like you're angling to take over the Master of Inadvertent Irony title, Curtis. You're so anxious to Get Judy that you completely missed *my* point. You caught Barry in an insignificant detail about a topic's posting history, who brought the topic up. Not at all insignificant. The Doug-bash Barry was intent on making wouldn't have been nearly as effective if Doug were seen to have only commented on the thread 10 posts in, rather than having initiated it as Barry claimed. Me2: It was a joke about Buck being possessed. I know from experience nothing will dissuade you once you run down your own rabbit hole so I wont even try to untangle it. Of maybe you didn't really catch a mistake, I am not going to dig through the posts to find out if Barry even said it this way. Right, Curtis, that dishonest Judy probably just made it up. Here's the beginning of the post: I ask seriously, because of a couple of threads he's ranting on over on FFL. A few days ago he brought up the practice of Subud, asking if people had ever heard Maharishi ever talk about it. (I ask seriously refers to Barry's subject heading, Is Doug Hamilton Possessed?) It misses the point which is: No, Curtis, I know what Barry's point was. Ha ha, Doug is possessed (see the subject heading). Just FYI, getting the joke does not necessarily also involve thinking it's funny. By me, this one was pretty dumb; and I was making a very different point in any case. Me2: Yes you clarified that Barry was wrong about Buck bringing it up and tried to shift the attention to that. Barry noticed that Doug was giving a positive spin on Subud It seemed to me that he was asking about the basis for the very negative spin the others were putting on it. But that isn't my point either. Basically, it's that Barry is losing it. He's so wrapped up in Doug-hatred, so obsessed with bashing Doug, that he misread Mike Dixon as DHamilton. (Or he didn't but assumed he wouldn't get caught in the lie.) Me2: And this from the person who brought FFL the apt and clever phrase: inadvertent irony. He got a detail wrong but the point of the joke had to do with what Buck wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” Me2: Buck took a positive spin on the only spiritual practice I ever heard Maharishi mention as an impediment to TM practice. It IS pretty funny to me too. I was not aware of the thread till Buck commented on it either. Judy: Barry is the primary source of all the upheaval relating to FFL; he's the main reason for the split-off to The Peak, and for Rick deciding moderation of FFL was necessary. That's a heavy set of consequences for which Barry is very largely responsible, and he knows it (though of course he'd never admit it). He's having a really tough time dealing with it. But one thing making it easier is that he can now lie freely about FFL, its moderator, and its TM supporters. It seems to me that's a fact of potential interest to FFLers. Me2: I have people whose posts I don't read so I don't get this power he holds on you. All this drama about having to create a new group because of him seems bogus to me. If you don't like someone, don't read them. If you decide to read them, then enjoy the ride you are creating by doing so. I enjoy our conversations even though we don't agree on much and I often feel misrepresented by you. I don't really get why you can't see that Barry provides you with your favorite writing prompts here no matter where he is posting. Judy YMMV, of course. which when I was made a teacher was one of the only groups of people we were not allowed to initiate. My guess is that someone from this group went
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : snip Doug (not Buck) said he hadn't heard Maharishi say anything about Subud. (Barry made fun of him for that, but then t3rinity chimed in that he hadn't heard anything either. Another Oooopsie! for Barry.) As I said, what Doug wrote seems to me more like a call for more information, given that Wikipedia didn't say anything about its involving spirit possession. Me3: It was on TTC. I forget if Buck was made a teacher. Buck and I also heard tapes of him talking about this on our rounding courses as MIU students. So you say. I'll leave that claim for Doug to deal with if he's so inclined. Me4: We took the same rounding courses with the same tapes. So yes, that is what I am saying. Judy: Barry is the primary source of all the upheaval relating to FFL; he's the main reason for the split-off to The Peak, and for Rick deciding moderation of FFL was necessary. That's a heavy set of consequences for which Barry is very largely responsible, and he knows it (though of course he'd never admit it). He's having a really tough time dealing with it. But one thing making it easier is that he can now lie freely about FFL, its moderator, and its TM supporters. It seems to me that's a fact of potential interest to FFLers. Me2: I have people whose posts I don't read so I don't get this power he holds on you. Judy: What on earth does your DNR list have to do with anything? ME3: Because it shows how an adult would handle a situation of not liking how someone posts instead of going to read him when he posts on another site. You are powerless to avoid him like a moth to the flame. Still makes no sense to me, sorry. Me4: Nor to me. Never understood your behavior amidst your faux protest routine. Me 2:All this drama about having to create a new group because of him seems bogus to me. If you don't like someone, don't read them. If you decide to read them, then enjoy the ride you are creating by doing so. Judy2: Oh, this is just prissy high-horse rubbish, Curtis. Go back to Feste's cocktail party analogy. FFL is like a very long-running cocktail party. When it's dominated by a person who gets his jollies from sadistically attacking people, it's not that easy to ignore. You yourself agreed with me that the whole button-pushing bit is basically a crock. For that matter, you've often become quite wroth when you've been attacked. Me3: When I am I either show where I disagree, mock their attack or just skip it as I ended up doing with our most famous R. You act as if there is only one choice. Well, no, I don't, actually. I've done all three with Barry as well, as you know. Me2:I enjoy our conversations even though we don't agree on much and I often feel misrepresented by you. I don't really get why you can't see that Barry provides you with your favorite writing prompts here no matter where he is posting. Judy2: Barry does not provide me with my favorite writing prompts (what a pretentious phrase, writing prompts). Me3: It comes from schools. Those third grade teachers are so pretentious aren't they? I'm not talking about third grade teachers. I'm talking about Curtis using the phrase on FFL. Me4: Wow you really had to reach to create that insult out of nothing. Yes I used a term common in schools about things that prompt us to write. And as far as your writing history here goes, you are most prompted to write by anything that Barry says on this or any other site. J: I'd much rather write about other things (and did, when there was a pause in Barry's jihad against me). You don't provide them either, as it happens. It's a big bore to have to untangle your flim-flam. I vastly prefer discussions that are straightforward and conducted with integrity. Me3: This was worth the whole post. You do know that some of us are aware of your history of writing here right? If you tell me it has bored you or that you would rather write about other things, you are proving my point. You are powerless. And if you have not enjoyed our many long conversations as I have, you are quite pathetic since you engaged in them for so long. I get something out of our discussions which is why I continue to interact with you. Sucks to be you I guess. You have pissed away a large part of your life here doing things you did not want to do, enjoy doing, or get anything out of. Tragic little victim. Thanks, a perfect example of what I mean by flim-flam. Anyone who's aware of my history of writing here knows I've written quite a bit of good stuff. That's the kind of writing I'd *prefer* to do. Me4: I know but that Barry just makes you focus on him again and again and again. I can only imagine how much great stuff the world lost because Barry posted on the same site you did.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : snip Doug (not Buck) said he hadn't heard Maharishi say anything about Subud. (Barry made fun of him for that, but then t3rinity chimed in that he hadn't heard anything either. Another Oooopsie! for Barry.) As I said, what Doug wrote seems to me more like a call for more information, given that Wikipedia didn't say anything about its involving spirit possession. Me3: It was on TTC. I forget if Buck was made a teacher. Buck and I also heard tapes of him talking about this on our rounding courses as MIU students. Judy: Barry is the primary source of all the upheaval relating to FFL; he's the main reason for the split-off to The Peak, and for Rick deciding moderation of FFL was necessary. That's a heavy set of consequences for which Barry is very largely responsible, and he knows it (though of course he'd never admit it). He's having a really tough time dealing with it. But one thing making it easier is that he can now lie freely about FFL, its moderator, and its TM supporters. It seems to me that's a fact of potential interest to FFLers. Me2: I have people whose posts I don't read so I don't get this power he holds on you. Judy: What on earth does your DNR list have to do with anything? ME3: Because it shows how an adult would handle a situation of not liking how someone posts instead of going to read him when he posts on another site. You are powerless to avoid him like a moth to the flame. Me 2:All this drama about having to create a new group because of him seems bogus to me. If you don't like someone, don't read them. If you decide to read them, then enjoy the ride you are creating by doing so. Judy2: Oh, this is just prissy high-horse rubbish, Curtis. Go back to Feste's cocktail party analogy. FFL is like a very long-running cocktail party. When it's dominated by a person who gets his jollies from sadistically attacking people, it's not that easy to ignore. You yourself agreed with me that the whole button-pushing bit is basically a crock. For that matter, you've often become quite wroth when you've been attacked. Me3: When I am I either show where I disagree, mock their attack or just skip it as I ended up doing with our most famous R. You act as if there is only one choice. Me2:I enjoy our conversations even though we don't agree on much and I often feel misrepresented by you. I don't really get why you can't see that Barry provides you with your favorite writing prompts here no matter where he is posting. Judy2: Barry does not provide me with my favorite writing prompts (what a pretentious phrase, writing prompts). Me3: It comes from schools. Those third grade teachers are so pretentious aren't they? J: I'd much rather write about other things (and did, when there was a pause in Barry's jihad against me). You don't provide them either, as it happens. It's a big bore to have to untangle your flim-flam. I vastly prefer discussions that are straightforward and conducted with integrity. Me3: This was worth the whole post. You do know that some of us are aware of your history of writing here right? If you tell me it has bored you or that you would rather write about other things, you are proving my point. You are powerless. And if you have not enjoyed our many long conversations as I have, you are quite pathetic since you engaged in them for so long. I get something out of our discussions which is why I continue to interact with you. Sucks to be you I guess. You have pissed away a large part of your life here doing things you did not want to do, enjoy doing, or get anything out of. Tragic little victim. Love the drama of sadistically attacking and jihad thrown in. Addicts love to talk about their addictions in vivid terms that make it look as if they cannot resist. It makes them feel better about shitty choices they make. Barry continues to control your attention from another site. Without him living in the world and expressing his opinions you would be posting all sorts of wonderful things? And all without the need for writing prompts no doubt! Judy YMMV, of course.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : snip Doug (not Buck) said he hadn't heard Maharishi say anything about Subud. (Barry made fun of him for that, but then t3rinity chimed in that he hadn't heard anything either. Another Oooopsie! for Barry.) As I said, what Doug wrote seems to me more like a call for more information, given that Wikipedia didn't say anything about its involving spirit possession. Me3: It was on TTC. I forget if Buck was made a teacher. Buck and I also heard tapes of him talking about this on our rounding courses as MIU students. So you say. I'll leave that claim for Doug to deal with if he's so inclined. Judy: Barry is the primary source of all the upheaval relating to FFL; he's the main reason for the split-off to The Peak, and for Rick deciding moderation of FFL was necessary. That's a heavy set of consequences for which Barry is very largely responsible, and he knows it (though of course he'd never admit it). He's having a really tough time dealing with it. But one thing making it easier is that he can now lie freely about FFL, its moderator, and its TM supporters. It seems to me that's a fact of potential interest to FFLers. Me2: I have people whose posts I don't read so I don't get this power he holds on you. Judy: What on earth does your DNR list have to do with anything? ME3: Because it shows how an adult would handle a situation of not liking how someone posts instead of going to read him when he posts on another site. You are powerless to avoid him like a moth to the flame. Still makes no sense to me, sorry. Me 2:All this drama about having to create a new group because of him seems bogus to me. If you don't like someone, don't read them. If you decide to read them, then enjoy the ride you are creating by doing so. Judy2: Oh, this is just prissy high-horse rubbish, Curtis. Go back to Feste's cocktail party analogy. FFL is like a very long-running cocktail party. When it's dominated by a person who gets his jollies from sadistically attacking people, it's not that easy to ignore. You yourself agreed with me that the whole button-pushing bit is basically a crock. For that matter, you've often become quite wroth when you've been attacked. Me3: When I am I either show where I disagree, mock their attack or just skip it as I ended up doing with our most famous R. You act as if there is only one choice. Well, no, I don't, actually. I've done all three with Barry as well, as you know. Me2:I enjoy our conversations even though we don't agree on much and I often feel misrepresented by you. I don't really get why you can't see that Barry provides you with your favorite writing prompts here no matter where he is posting. Judy2: Barry does not provide me with my favorite writing prompts (what a pretentious phrase, writing prompts). Me3: It comes from schools. Those third grade teachers are so pretentious aren't they? I'm not talking about third grade teachers. I'm talking about Curtis using the phrase on FFL. J: I'd much rather write about other things (and did, when there was a pause in Barry's jihad against me). You don't provide them either, as it happens. It's a big bore to have to untangle your flim-flam. I vastly prefer discussions that are straightforward and conducted with integrity. Me3: This was worth the whole post. You do know that some of us are aware of your history of writing here right? If you tell me it has bored you or that you would rather write about other things, you are proving my point. You are powerless. And if you have not enjoyed our many long conversations as I have, you are quite pathetic since you engaged in them for so long. I get something out of our discussions which is why I continue to interact with you. Sucks to be you I guess. You have pissed away a large part of your life here doing things you did not want to do, enjoy doing, or get anything out of. Tragic little victim. Thanks, a perfect example of what I mean by flim-flam. Anyone who's aware of my history of writing here knows I've written quite a bit of good stuff. That's the kind of writing I'd *prefer* to do. But I just happen to put a priority on exposing dishonesty and protesting unfairness. It isn't enjoyable, but there is a certain satisfaction in it. It's a choice, and I do get something out of it. Love the drama of sadistically attacking and jihad thrown in. Addicts love to talk about their addictions in vivid terms that make it look as if they cannot resist. It makes them feel better about shitty choices they make. Barry continues to control your attention from another site. More jive drivel. Curtis, you know what I think of you, and you know why. There's no way you can fix it except by having some sort of major conversion experience followed by repentance and penance. I'm
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up Me: This Judy nitpick is such a classic. It reveals both humor impairment as well as an ability to completely miss the point of the writer. It is fascinating to see it in action on someone else where it is so clear. Looks like you're angling to take over the Master of Inadvertent Irony title, Curtis. You're so anxious to Get Judy that you completely missed *my* point. You caught Barry in an insignificant detail about a topic's posting history, who brought the topic up. Not at all insignificant. The Doug-bash Barry was intent on making wouldn't have been nearly as effective if Doug were seen to have only commented on the thread 10 posts in, rather than having initiated it as Barry claimed. Me2: It was a joke about Buck being possessed. I know from experience nothing will dissuade you once you run down your own rabbit hole so I wont even try to untangle it. Did you take a little nap there, or what? I know it was a joke about Doug (not Buck) being possessed. I went on to say precisely that. Of maybe you didn't really catch a mistake, I am not going to dig through the posts to find out if Barry even said it this way. Right, Curtis, that dishonest Judy probably just made it up. Here's the beginning of the post: I ask seriously, because of a couple of threads he's ranting on over on FFL. A few days ago he brought up the practice of Subud, asking if people had ever heard Maharishi ever talk about it. (I ask seriously refers to Barry's subject heading, Is Doug Hamilton Possessed?) It misses the point which is: No, Curtis, I know what Barry's point was. Ha ha, Doug is possessed (see the subject heading). Just FYI, getting the joke does not necessarily also involve thinking it's funny. By me, this one was pretty dumb; and I was making a very different point in any case. Me2: Yes you clarified that Barry was wrong about Buck bringing it up and tried to shift the attention to that. Shift what attention? From what? My post was about Barry being wrong. There was nothing else to pay attention to (at least not here). Barry noticed that Doug was giving a positive spin on Subud It seemed to me that he was asking about the basis for the very negative spin the others were putting on it. But that isn't my point either. Basically, it's that Barry is losing it. He's so wrapped up in Doug-hatred, so obsessed with bashing Doug, that he misread Mike Dixon as DHamilton. (Or he didn't but assumed he wouldn't get caught in the lie.) Me2: And this from the person who brought FFL the apt and clever phrase: inadvertent irony. He got a detail wrong but the point of the joke had to do with what Buck wrote: The joke was dumb. It would have been even dumber had he not claimed Doug was the one who brought up Subud. The fact of that mistake (or lie) is more significant than the joke. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” Me2: Buck took a positive spin on the only spiritual practice I ever heard Maharishi mention as an impediment to TM practice. It IS pretty funny to me too. I was not aware of the thread till Buck commented on it either. Doug (not Buck) said he hadn't heard Maharishi say anything about Subud. (Barry made fun of him for that, but then t3rinity chimed in that he hadn't heard anything either. Another Oooopsie! for Barry.) As I said, what Doug wrote seems to me more like a call for more information, given that Wikipedia didn't say anything about its involving spirit possession. Judy: Barry is the primary source of all the upheaval relating to FFL; he's the main reason for the split-off to The Peak, and for Rick deciding moderation of FFL was necessary. That's a heavy set of consequences for which Barry is very largely responsible, and he knows it (though of course he'd never admit it). He's having a really tough time dealing with it. But
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : BARRY BULLETIN: Barry's in a state of some considerable confusion. He's accusing Doug of having brought up Subud here and of seeming to promote it; he wonders whether Doug has been secretly *practicing* Subud for some time. Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up (see last quoted post below). Doug didn't even speak up until after Mike, Bhairitu, S3raphita, and emptybill had been discussing Subud for 10 posts. I'm telling you, it really is another world over there on FFL2. As long as it stays in another galaxy I'm good... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someone back then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concern from spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis of nature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernment on this subject here? By description, Subud it seems starts with a quieting or transcending meditation and then various kriyas can start up. That evidently is not uncommon in meditative practices. Bhairitu offers, Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of removing possession. Emptybill writes: Yep, well said. Spirit possession is not related to the practice of TM or any form of yoga - whether described by Patanjali or codified in the Agamas and Tantras of Vaishnavas, Shaivas or Shaktas. MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972. s3raphita offers, Re a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system: Isn't that TM also? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote : I can't help you but there are parallels between Subud and TM I suspect. From Wiki: In the practice of the [Latihan] exercise, members are typically advised to follow 'what arises from within', not expecting anything in advance. One is recommended not to focus on any image or recite any mantra, nor to mix the exercise with other activities like meditation or use of drugs, but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time. So there's a similar focus on effortlessly going with the flow but whereas TM is purely mental, Subud is physical. It sounds to me that the two practices could complement each other. A word of warning: The method was later adopted by Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Does anybody who was made an initiator remember what Maharishi said about the practice of *Subud*? All I can remember was that anyone seeking initiation who practiced it was to stop at least six months before we could initiate them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
BARRY BULLETIN: Barry's in a state of some considerable confusion. He's accusing Doug of having brought up Subud here and of seeming to promote it; he wonders whether Doug has been secretly *practicing* Subud for some time. Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up (see last quoted post below). Doug didn't even speak up until after Mike, Bhairitu, S3raphita, and emptybill had been discussing Subud for 10 posts. I'm telling you, it really is another world over there on FFL2. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someone back then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concern from spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis of nature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernment on this subject here? By description, Subud it seems starts with a quieting or transcending meditation and then various kriyas can start up. That evidently is not uncommon in meditative practices. Bhairitu offers, Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of removing possession. Emptybill writes: Yep, well said. Spirit possession is not related to the practice of TM or any form of yoga - whether described by Patanjali or codified in the Agamas and Tantras of Vaishnavas, Shaivas or Shaktas. MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972. s3raphita offers, Re a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system: Isn't that TM also? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote : I can't help you but there are parallels between Subud and TM I suspect. From Wiki: In the practice of the [Latihan] exercise, members are typically advised to follow 'what arises from within', not expecting anything in advance. One is recommended not to focus on any image or recite any mantra, nor to mix the exercise with other activities like meditation or use of drugs, but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time. So there's a similar focus on effortlessly going with the flow but whereas TM is purely mental, Subud is physical. It sounds to me that the two practices could complement each other. A word of warning: The method was later adopted by Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Does anybody who was made an initiator remember what Maharishi said about the practice of *Subud*? All I can remember was that anyone seeking initiation who practiced it was to stop at least six months before we could initiate them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Correct-a-mundo! Yes, I made the original post. I was bringing up the subject to see how many people remembered what Maharishi said about it. He did not like it at all. Seems he had some knowledge about it, I thought , from traveling in and around Indonesia and Singapore. He did say it had something to do with Spirit possession and caused problems with mind/body coordination. We were not to initiate anyone practicing it until they had given it up for at least six months. He, M, was very serious about it. I came away with the impression, from what M was saying, that it was worse, for your evolution, than doing drugs. From: authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 8:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers BARRY BULLETIN: Barry's in a state of some considerable confusion. He's accusing Doug of having brought up Subud here and of seeming to promote it; he wonders whether Doug has been secretly *practicing* Subud for some time. Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up (see last quoted post below). Doug didn't even speak up until after Mike, Bhairitu, S3raphita, and emptybill had been discussing Subud for 10 posts. I'm telling you, it really is another world over there on FFL2. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..whollyconscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does notnecessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more likethe ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the oldAmana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courseslearning the TM-Siddhis.“but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During theexercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical andemotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walkaround, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experiencevaries greatly for different people, but the practitioner is alwayswholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at anytime.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someoneback then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concernfrom spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis ofnature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernmenton this subject here? By description, Subud it seems starts with aquieting or transcending meditation and then various kriyas can startup. That evidently is not uncommon in meditative practices. Bhairitu offers, Possession is not part of TM or mostany other form of meditation. It is a part of other pathsrituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways ofremoving possession. Emptybill writes: Yep, well said. Spirit possession isnot related to the practice of TM or any form of yoga - whetherdescribed by Patanjali or codified in the Agamas and Tantras ofVaishnavas, Shaivas or Shaktas. MMY said Subud is a form of spiritpossession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or anamorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordancethat cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud asverboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's -maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972. s3raphita offers, Re a form of mind-body discordance that cedescontrol of the nervous system: Isn't thatTM also? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote : I can't help you but there are parallels between Subud and TM I suspect. From Wiki:In the practice of the [Latihan] exercise, members are typically advised to follow 'what arises from within', not expecting anything in advance. One is recommended not to focus on any image or recite any mantra, nor to mix the exercise with other activities like meditation or use of drugs, but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time. So there's a similar focus on effortlessly going with the flow but whereas TM is purely mental, Subud is physical. It sounds to me that the two practices could complement each other. A word of warning: The method was later adopted by Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Does anybody who was made an initiator remember what Maharishi said about the practice of *Subud*? All I can remember was that anyone seeking initiation who
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Below is Barry's comment on my bulletin (posted only a little over a half-hour later--he must have been checking FFL every hour or so). Note that he doesn't acknowledge his biggest goof, that it was Doug who brought up Subud. That wasn't part of the joke; that was Barry being so anxious to find something to bash Doug with that he just didn't notice who had made the first post. (Or maybe he did notice and figured nobody on FFL2 would bother to check, so he'd get away with the lie.) Note also that I didn't even mention the possessed idea. That was obviously what Barry thinks of as a joke and was what the smiley face referred to. And of course Doug wouldn't have bothered to respond, much less freak out. I think Barry has been *shattered* by the events of the past months, starting with the consequences of his baby-abuse post in November. And now he's penned in with people who think like he does, and none of his usual targets within easy striking distance. He's having a very tough time keeping himself together, and it's only going to get worse. Didn't you notice the smiley face at the end of my post? I was mainly joking about Doug actually practicing Subud, although the idea of him being possessed really *would* explain much. :-) I posted what I did to see whether he'd freak out and post something insane over on FFL in response. So far, the only person who has done that, however, was the Judenator. She's dumb enough to fall for *anything*. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Correct-a-mundo! Yes, I made the original post. I was bringing up the subject to see how many people remembered what Maharishi said about it. He did not like it at all. Seems he had some knowledge about it, I thought , from traveling in and around Indonesia and Singapore. He did say it had something to do with Spirit possession and caused problems with mind/body coordination. We were not to initiate anyone practicing it until they had given it up for at least six months. He, M, was very serious about it. I came away with the impression, from what M was saying, that it was worse, for your evolution, than doing drugs. From: authfriend@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 8:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers BARRY BULLETIN: Barry's in a state of some considerable confusion. He's accusing Doug of having brought up Subud here and of seeming to promote it; he wonders whether Doug has been secretly *practicing* Subud for some time. Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up (see last quoted post below). Doug didn't even speak up until after Mike, Bhairitu, S3raphita, and emptybill had been discussing Subud for 10 posts. I'm telling you, it really is another world over there on FFL2. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someone back then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concern from spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis of nature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernment on this subject here? By description, Subud it seems starts with a quieting or transcending meditation and then various kriyas can start up. That evidently is not uncommon in meditative practices. Bhairitu offers, Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of removing possession. Emptybill writes: Yep, well said. Spirit possession is not related to the practice of TM or any form of yoga - whether described by Patanjali or codified in the Agamas and Tantras of Vaishnavas, Shaivas or Shaktas. MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
I'm not sure I see the point of these Barry bulletins. Why don't you post them on FFL2? Barry is no longer on this forum, and I doubt whether anyone here wants to read about him. He was booted off for very good reasons, so why keep raising his ghost here? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Below is Barry's comment on my bulletin (posted only a little over a half-hour later--he must have been checking FFL every hour or so). Note that he doesn't acknowledge his biggest goof, that it was Doug who brought up Subud. That wasn't part of the joke; that was Barry being so anxious to find something to bash Doug with that he just didn't notice who had made the first post. (Or maybe he did notice and figured nobody on FFL2 would bother to check, so he'd get away with the lie.) Note also that I didn't even mention the possessed idea. That was obviously what Barry thinks of as a joke and was what the smiley face referred to. And of course Doug wouldn't have bothered to respond, much less freak out. I think Barry has been *shattered* by the events of the past months, starting with the consequences of his baby-abuse post in November. And now he's penned in with people who think like he does, and none of his usual targets within easy striking distance. He's having a very tough time keeping himself together, and it's only going to get worse. Didn't you notice the smiley face at the end of my post? I was mainly joking about Doug actually practicing Subud, although the idea of him being possessed really *would* explain much. :-) I posted what I did to see whether he'd freak out and post something insane over on FFL in response. So far, the only person who has done that, however, was the Judenator. She's dumb enough to fall for *anything*. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Correct-a-mundo! Yes, I made the original post. I was bringing up the subject to see how many people remembered what Maharishi said about it. He did not like it at all. Seems he had some knowledge about it, I thought , from traveling in and around Indonesia and Singapore. He did say it had something to do with Spirit possession and caused problems with mind/body coordination. We were not to initiate anyone practicing it until they had given it up for at least six months. He, M, was very serious about it. I came away with the impression, from what M was saying, that it was worse, for your evolution, than doing drugs. From: authfriend@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 8:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers BARRY BULLETIN: Barry's in a state of some considerable confusion. He's accusing Doug of having brought up Subud here and of seeming to promote it; he wonders whether Doug has been secretly *practicing* Subud for some time. Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up (see last quoted post below). Doug didn't even speak up until after Mike, Bhairitu, S3raphita, and emptybill had been discussing Subud for 10 posts. I'm telling you, it really is another world over there on FFL2. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someone back then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concern from spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis of nature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernment on this subject here? By description, Subud it seems starts with a quieting or transcending meditation and then various kriyas can start up. That evidently is not uncommon in meditative practices. Bhairitu offers, Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of removing possession. Emptybill writes: Yep, well said. Spirit possession is not related to the practice of TM or any form of yoga - whether
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Because the posts in question had to do with Doug and FFL. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : I'm not sure I see the point of these Barry bulletins. Why don't you post them on FFL2? Barry is no longer on this forum, and I doubt whether anyone here wants to read about him. He was booted off for very good reasons, so why keep raising his ghost here? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Below is Barry's comment on my bulletin (posted only a little over a half-hour later--he must have been checking FFL every hour or so). Note that he doesn't acknowledge his biggest goof, that it was Doug who brought up Subud. That wasn't part of the joke; that was Barry being so anxious to find something to bash Doug with that he just didn't notice who had made the first post. (Or maybe he did notice and figured nobody on FFL2 would bother to check, so he'd get away with the lie.) Note also that I didn't even mention the possessed idea. That was obviously what Barry thinks of as a joke and was what the smiley face referred to. And of course Doug wouldn't have bothered to respond, much less freak out. I think Barry has been *shattered* by the events of the past months, starting with the consequences of his baby-abuse post in November. And now he's penned in with people who think like he does, and none of his usual targets within easy striking distance. He's having a very tough time keeping himself together, and it's only going to get worse. Didn't you notice the smiley face at the end of my post? I was mainly joking about Doug actually practicing Subud, although the idea of him being possessed really *would* explain much. :-) I posted what I did to see whether he'd freak out and post something insane over on FFL in response. So far, the only person who has done that, however, was the Judenator. She's dumb enough to fall for *anything*. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Correct-a-mundo! Yes, I made the original post. I was bringing up the subject to see how many people remembered what Maharishi said about it. He did not like it at all. Seems he had some knowledge about it, I thought , from traveling in and around Indonesia and Singapore. He did say it had something to do with Spirit possession and caused problems with mind/body coordination. We were not to initiate anyone practicing it until they had given it up for at least six months. He, M, was very serious about it. I came away with the impression, from what M was saying, that it was worse, for your evolution, than doing drugs. From: authfriend@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 8:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers BARRY BULLETIN: Barry's in a state of some considerable confusion. He's accusing Doug of having brought up Subud here and of seeming to promote it; he wonders whether Doug has been secretly *practicing* Subud for some time. Of course it was Mike Dixon who brought it up (see last quoted post below). Doug didn't even speak up until after Mike, Bhairitu, S3raphita, and emptybill had been discussing Subud for 10 posts. I'm telling you, it really is another world over there on FFL2. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someone back then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concern from spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis of nature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernment on this subject here? By description, Subud it seems starts with a quieting or transcending meditation and then various kriyas can start up. That evidently is not uncommon in meditative practices. Bhairitu offers, Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of removing
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Described this way, “..wholly conscious throughout and free to stop” this part of Subud does not necessarily sound like spirit or entity possession but much more like the ashram community practices coming out of meditative quietism of the old Amana Colony lineage and in Shaker village ashram practices or on courses learning the TM-Siddhis. “but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote : Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someone back then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concern from spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis of nature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernment on this subject here? By description, Subud it seems starts with a quieting or transcending meditation and then various kriyas can start up. That evidently is not uncommon in meditative practices. Bhairitu offers, Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of removing possession. Emptybill writes: Yep, well said. Spirit possession is not related to the practice of TM or any form of yoga - whether described by Patanjali or codified in the Agamas and Tantras of Vaishnavas, Shaivas or Shaktas. MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972. s3raphita offers, Re a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system: Isn't that TM also? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote : I can't help you but there are parallels between Subud and TM I suspect. From Wiki: In the practice of the [Latihan] exercise, members are typically advised to follow 'what arises from within', not expecting anything in advance. One is recommended not to focus on any image or recite any mantra, nor to mix the exercise with other activities like meditation or use of drugs, but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time. So there's a similar focus on effortlessly going with the flow but whereas TM is purely mental, Subud is physical. It sounds to me that the two practices could complement each other. A word of warning: The method was later adopted by Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Does anybody who was made an initiator remember what Maharishi said about the practice of *Subud*? All I can remember was that anyone seeking initiation who practiced it was to stop at least six months before we could initiate them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Don't know how Subud was actually portrayed by someone back then on courses to M. However there seems a spectrum of concern from spirit-ism as 'possession' and to 'channeling', to an earnest TM [spiritual] interest in cultivating ritam bhara pragya readings of pakritis of nature. Where is Nablusoss1008 when we need his specialized discernment on this subject here? By description, Subud it seems starts with a quieting or transcending meditation and then various kriyas can start up. That evidently is not uncommon in meditative practices. Bhairitu offers, Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of removing possession. Emptybill writes: Yep, well said. Spirit possession is not related to the practice of TM or any form of yoga - whether described by Patanjali or codified in the Agamas and Tantras of Vaishnavas, Shaivas or Shaktas. MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972. s3raphita offers, Re a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system: Isn't that TM also? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote : I can't help you but there are parallels between Subud and TM I suspect. From Wiki: In the practice of the [Latihan] exercise, members are typically advised to follow 'what arises from within', not expecting anything in advance. One is recommended not to focus on any image or recite any mantra, nor to mix the exercise with other activities like meditation or use of drugs, but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time. So there's a similar focus on effortlessly going with the flow but whereas TM is purely mental, Subud is physical. It sounds to me that the two practices could complement each other. A word of warning: The method was later adopted by Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Does anybody who was made an initiator remember what Maharishi said about the practice of *Subud*? All I can remember was that anyone seeking initiation who practiced it was to stop at least six months before we could initiate them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Ok , yes. That's what I remember now. I think he said that in Fuiggi.
From: emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:34 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession.
Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still
a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That
alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY.
I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata,
Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
You could get a helluva conspiracy theory started with that, Mike. :-D On 07/14/2015 09:02 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I had to ask. Found out Obama's momma and several others around him were heavily into it when they lived in Indonesia. *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:57 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers Yes, that's what I recall from the tape of those sessions. I heard it several times. On 07/14/2015 08:34 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com mailto:emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Oh, it's aready out there LOL! Ran into it yesterday. It's all over youtube.
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
You could get a helluva conspiracy theory started with that, Mike. :-D
On 07/14/2015 09:02 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
I had to ask. Found out Obama's momma and several others around him were
heavily into it when they lived in Indonesia.
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Yes, that's what I recall from the tape of those sessions. I heard
it several times.
On 07/14/2015 08:34 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession.
Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is
still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous
system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY.
I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata,
Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Yes, that's what I recall from the tape of those sessions. I heard it several times. On 07/14/2015 08:34 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
I had to ask. Found out Obama's momma and several others around him were
heavily into it when they lived in Indonesia.
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Yes, that's what I recall from the tape of those sessions. I heard it
several times.
On 07/14/2015 08:34 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession.
Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is
still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system.
That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY.
I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata,
Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Re a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system: Isn't that TM also? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote : MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Possession is 9/10ths of the laws of narure
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is
a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of
removing possession.
On 07/14/2015 02:54 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Re a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous
system:
Isn't that TM also?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote :
MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession.
Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is
still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system.
That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY.
I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata,
Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Yep, well said. Spirit possession is not related to the practice of TM or any form of yoga - whether described by Patanjali or codified in the Agamas and Tantras of Vaishnavas, Shaivas or Shaktas.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
Possession is not part of TM or most any other form of meditation. It is a part of other paths rituals not limited to Subud. In tantra we have ways of removing possession. On 07/14/2015 02:54 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system: Isn't that TM also? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote : MMY said Subud is a form of spirit possession. Whether it is an actual spirit-entity or an amorphic spirit energy, it is still a form of mind-body discordance that cedes control of the nervous system. That alone marked Subud as verboten to MMY. I heard him say so in one of my TTC's - maybe at Humboldt State U. in Arcata, Calif. during the summer of 1971 or perhaps Fiuggi in the spring of 1972.
[FairfieldLife] Re: for teachers
I can't help you but there are parallels between Subud and TM I suspect. From Wiki: In the practice of the [Latihan] exercise, members are typically advised to follow 'what arises from within', not expecting anything in advance. One is recommended not to focus on any image or recite any mantra, nor to mix the exercise with other activities like meditation or use of drugs, but simply to intend to surrender to the Divine. During the exercise, practitioners may find that, in terms of physical and emotional expression, they involuntarily move, make sounds, walk around, dance, jump, skip, laugh, cry or whatever. The experience varies greatly for different people, but the practitioner is always wholly conscious throughout and free to stop the exercise at any time. So there's a similar focus on effortlessly going with the flow but whereas TM is purely mental, Subud is physical. It sounds to me that the two practices could complement each other. A word of warning: The method was later adopted by Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Does anybody who was made an initiator remember what Maharishi said about the practice of *Subud*? All I can remember was that anyone seeking initiation who practiced it was to stop at least six months before we could initiate them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
Apparently, Keith Wallace, or at least, one of his sons had heard of me. I mentioned my name ages ago on the phone, and Ted (I believe it was), said Oh, yeah! Hi and I had never spoken to him before. I'm [in]famous amongst a really really tiny group of people, apparently... L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: well you dumbass of course Wallace never heard of me - I never had any dealings with him since I was not a student - others who were on staff at nearly anytime at MIU can attest to the fact that Movement elitism was and probably is rife amongst the illustrious of the school - the faculty never mixed much with the actual workers - but you go ahead and believe your fantasies. From: Richard J. Williams richard@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life  Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
I lived in one of the pods right next to a guy named Mike Shay who I think is still on staff - when I got there in '85 he had been there nearly 10 years and said the food quality during the time you were there was way better than it had become in the mid '80s. He said they used to have a juicer right in the serving area and had big bags of carrots right next to it so one could make their own fresh juice - I believe he said that at one time they had their own cows to produce milk, but that had ended before my arrival (yeah, I know they are doing that again) and you are right about the bakers working hard - Randy Kreig who preceded me was amazing and did it all by himself but he got burned out and became an ayurvedic tech - then there was Danny Von Phillipsborn and then me - I dunno who took over after I left. I will tell you the worst mistake and the worst thing I ever personally produced was forgetting to put salt in the bread - you can't imagine a more tasteless thing to eat than no salt bread. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Thanks Ann - I don't know why he has his jaws locked around that particular delusion, maybe because I don't believe that all things were born in a Buddhist stupa, but then neither does anyone else on FFL so maybe that's not it. And you are right about the teachers, they pretty much ignored staff unless it was someone with some sort of authority like Bill Sands or Kingsley Brooks. I have to say that the food at MIU, even though you were not there quite yet (1975-1980) was extraordinary and I, for one, appreciate the time, effort and skill that went into preparing seemingly endless quantities of it for us gluttonous students. So thank you and all those before you who made all that meditating, rounding and those siddhi courses bearable by filling those food trays with mounds of delicious breakfasts, lunches and dinners. I had a good friend who was on kitchen staff as a baker back when I was there; I know she worked her butt off. From: Ann awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@ wrote: Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! He wasn't a student Richard. But you know that. Teachers don't generally know who is on staff, especially in the kitchen - they are too busy enjoying the food. TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
mjackson74: ask the ass how many people he knew who worked in the kitchen - not the kitchen director, but the grunts who did the physical labor Yeah, the next time I see Robert Keith Wallace I'll ask him if he remembers a guy who worked in the kitchen back in the 70's named 'mjackson74'. LoL! Like I said, you've got nothing to report, even if you did work in the kitchen for two years way back then. What would any cafeteria staff know about the TMO or the comings-and-goings of MMY or Bevan anyway, even if they were students? So, I've been reading TMer discussion groups for years, and it's on record that nobody knows what's going on up there in Fairfield with the TMO. You can't even get any useful information from people that live there NOW! Go figure. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! well you dumbass of course Wallace never heard of me - I never had any dealings with him since I was not a student - Robert told me he used to eat bread in the cafeteria all the time and he never heard of a mjackson74. Go figure. others who were on staff at nearly anytime at MIU can attest to the fact that Movement elitism was and probably is rife amongst the illustrious of the school Like who? - the faculty never mixed much with the actual workers - but you go ahead and believe your fantasies. Sounds like a pretty average school - not many faculty hang around the kitchen or out back by the bins. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
I was there in the '80s dummy - but I don't expect you to be able to perceive any form of reality accurately since you have fashioned yourself a hat out of a Buddhist stupa that obscures your vision. From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 10:12 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life mjackson74: ask the ass how many people he knew who worked in the kitchen - not the kitchen director, but the grunts who did the physical labor Yeah, the next time I see Robert Keith Wallace I'll ask him if he remembers a guy who worked in the kitchen back in the 70's named 'mjackson74'. LoL! Like I said, you've got nothing to report, even if you did work in the kitchen for two years way back then. What would any cafeteria staff know about the TMO or the comings-and-goings of MMY or Bevan anyway, even if they were students? So, I've been reading TMer discussion groups for years, and it's on record that nobody knows what's going on up there in Fairfield with the TMO. You can't even get any useful information from people that live there NOW! Go figure. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! well you dumbass of course Wallace never heard of me - I never had any dealings with him since I was not a student - Robert told me he used to eat bread in the cafeteria all the time and he never heard of a mjackson74. Go figure. others who were on staff at nearly anytime at MIU can attest to the fact that Movement elitism was and probably is rife amongst the illustrious of the school Like who? - the faculty never mixed much with the actual workers - but you go ahead and believe your fantasies. Sounds like a pretty average school - not many faculty hang around the kitchen or out back by the bins. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
God, you really are out to lunch, I have posted my full name here any number of times, what state I live in, details of my time at MIU and who I was there with - you really need to get checked by a mental health professional or maybe have an Alzheimer's test, or get your head out of that Buddhist stupa From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 10:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! Ann: He wasn't a student Richard. But you know that. He was taking lessons from someone - you don't learn TM and baking from a book. All I'm asking for is a little honesty, Ann. Who is mjackson74 hiding from? Nobody has any cred here that posts anonymously - it's just rumor and smear - nothing the average TMer would be interested in. As long as we're talking about dead people and other people behind their back, why not just tell the whole story? Teachers don't generally know who is on staff, especially in the kitchen - they are too busy enjoying the food. TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! Ann: He wasn't a student Richard. But you know that. He was taking lessons from someone - you don't learn TM and baking from a book. All I'm asking for is a little honesty, Ann. Who is mjackson74 hiding from? Nobody has any cred here that posts anonymously - it's just rumor and smear - nothing the average TMer would be interested in. As long as we're talking about dead people and other people behind their back, why not just tell the whole story? Teachers don't generally know who is on staff, especially in the kitchen - they are too busy enjoying the food. TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
mjackson74: Thanks Ann - I don't know why he has his jaws locked around that particular delusion, Just tell us who you are and who was your TM Teacher, and cut all the bullshit- just be honest. maybe because I don't believe that all things were born in a Buddhist stupa, but then neither does anyone else on FFL so maybe that's not it. It was not my idea to have the TMers meditate inside a golden stupa dome - MMY came up with that on his own. Go figure. And you are right about the teachers, they pretty much ignored staff unless it was someone with some sort of authority like Bill Sands or Kingsley Brooks. Now I'm really impressed! Bill Sands and Kingsley Brooks, both said they never heard of you. LoL! Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! He wasn't a student Richard. But you know that. Teachers don't generally know who is on staff, especially in the kitchen - they are too busy enjoying the food. TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I lived in one of the pods right next to a guy named Mike Shay who I think is still on staff - when I got there in '85 he had been there nearly 10 years and said the food quality during the time you were there was way better than it had become in the mid '80s. He said they used to have a juicer right in the serving area and had big bags of carrots right next to it so one could make their own fresh juice - I believe he said that at one time they had their own cows to produce milk, but that had ended before my arrival (yeah, I know they are doing that again) You are correct on the juicing and every night at dinner there was this giant ice cream bar where you could make chocolate or other types of sundays with all the fixin's on top. and you are right about the bakers working hard - Randy Kreig who preceded me was amazing and did it all by himself but he got burned out and became an ayurvedic tech - then there was Danny Von Phillipsborn and then me - I dunno who took over after I left. I will tell you the worst mistake and the worst thing I ever personally produced was forgetting to put salt in the bread - you can't imagine a more tasteless thing to eat than no salt bread. From: Ann awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Thanks Ann - I don't know why he has his jaws locked around that particular delusion, maybe because I don't believe that all things were born in a Buddhist stupa, but then neither does anyone else on FFL so maybe that's not it. And you are right about the teachers, they pretty much ignored staff unless it was someone with some sort of authority like Bill Sands or Kingsley Brooks. I have to say that the food at MIU, even though you were not there quite yet (1975-1980) was extraordinary and I, for one, appreciate the time, effort and skill that went into preparing seemingly endless quantities of it for us gluttonous students. So thank you and all those before you who made all that meditating, rounding and those siddhi courses bearable by filling those food trays with mounds of delicious breakfasts, lunches and dinners. I had a good friend who was on kitchen staff as a baker back when I was there; I know she worked her butt off. From: Ann awoelflebater@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@ wrote: Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! He wasn't a student Richard. But you know that. Teachers don't generally know who is on staff, especially in the kitchen - they are too busy enjoying the food. TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
mjackson74: God, you really are out to lunch, I have posted my full name here any number of times, what state I live in, details of my time at MIU and who I was there with - you really need to get checked by a mental health professional or maybe have an Alzheimer's test, or get your head out of that Buddhist stupa So, you drove up to Iowa to work in the kitchen of a religious school and tried to fly inside a golden dome for two years, but I'm the one that needs to get checked by a mental health professional or have an Alzheimer's test? Go figure. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! Ann: He wasn't a student Richard. But you know that. He was taking lessons from someone - you don't learn TM and baking from a book. All I'm asking for is a little honesty, Ann. Who is mjackson74 hiding from? Nobody has any cred here that posts anonymously - it's just rumor and smear - nothing the average TMer would be interested in. As long as we're talking about dead people and other people behind their back, why not just tell the whole story? Teachers don't generally know who is on staff, especially in the kitchen - they are too busy enjoying the food. TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
mjackson74: I was there in the '80s dummy For what purpose? - but I don't expect you to be able to perceive any form of reality accurately since you have fashioned yourself a hat out of a Buddhist stupa that obscures your vision. You should have insisted on placing a relic of your dead guru inside your golden dome. That way, you could have worshipped MMY as a God, or at least an Avatar while flying around in there. Go figure. In fact, MMY improved on the stupa idea - a hollow tope - brilliant!!! Stupas were built of stones or bricks to commemorate important events or mark important places associated with Buddhism or to house important relics of Buddha. http://indiapicks.com/annapurna/B_Buddhist.htm BUDDHIST ART ARCHITECTURE: http://indiapicks.com/annapurna/B_Buddhist.htm http://indiapicks.com/annapurna/B_Buddhist.htm ask the ass how many people he knew who worked in the kitchen - not the kitchen director, but the grunts who did the physical labor Yeah, the next time I see Robert Keith Wallace I'll ask him if he remembers a guy who worked in the kitchen back in the 70's named 'mjackson74'. LoL! Like I said, you've got nothing to report, even if you did work in the kitchen for two years way back then. What would any cafeteria staff know about the TMO or the comings-and-goings of MMY or Bevan anyway, even if they were students? So, I've been reading TMer discussion groups for years, and it's on record that nobody knows what's going on up there in Fairfield with the TMO. You can't even get any useful information from people that live there NOW! Go figure. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! well you dumbass of course Wallace never heard of me - I never had any dealings with him since I was not a student - Robert told me he used to eat bread in the cafeteria all the time and he never heard of a mjackson74. Go figure. others who were on staff at nearly anytime at MIU can attest to the fact that Movement elitism was and probably is rife amongst the illustrious of the school Like who? - the faculty never mixed much with the actual workers - but you go ahead and believe your fantasies. Sounds like a pretty average school - not many faculty hang around the kitchen or out back by the bins. LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: mjackson74: I was there in the '80s dummy For what purpose? To unstress his brains out until he was finally showed the door :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
the ones who seemed to be doing the most unstressing were Bevan, Greg Wilson, Susan Humphries, Chris Crowell and others of that ilk who were scared to death that someone would look around a find another path more amenable to their lives and thus take money and praise away from them and marshy. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 1:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: mjackson74: I was there in the '80s dummy For what purpose? To unstress his brains out until he was finally showed the door :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
mjackson74: TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. that's because you never knew anyone who counted besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 11:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life mjackson74: TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
well you dumbass of course Wallace never heard of me - I never had any dealings with him since I was not a student - others who were on staff at nearly anytime at MIU can attest to the fact that Movement elitism was and probably is rife amongst the illustrious of the school - the faculty never mixed much with the actual workers - but you go ahead and believe your fantasies. From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! mjackson74: well you dumbass of course Wallace never heard of me - I never had any dealings with him since I was not a student - Robert told me he used to eat bread in the cafeteria all the time and he never heard of a mjackson74. Go figure. others who were on staff at nearly anytime at MIU can attest to the fact that Movement elitism was and probably is rife amongst the illustrious of the school Like who? - the faculty never mixed much with the actual workers - but you go ahead and believe your fantasies. Sounds like a pretty average school - not many faculty hang around the kitchen or out back by the bins. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
ask the ass how many people he knew who worked in the kitchen - not the kitchen director, but the grunts who did the physical labor From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 1:41 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! mjackson74: well you dumbass of course Wallace never heard of me - I never had any dealings with him since I was not a student - Robert told me he used to eat bread in the cafeteria all the time and he never heard of a mjackson74. Go figure. others who were on staff at nearly anytime at MIU can attest to the fact that Movement elitism was and probably is rife amongst the illustrious of the school Like who? - the faculty never mixed much with the actual workers - but you go ahead and believe your fantasies. Sounds like a pretty average school - not many faculty hang around the kitchen or out back by the bins. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! He wasn't a student Richard. But you know that. Teachers don't generally know who is on staff, especially in the kitchen - they are too busy enjoying the food. TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
Thanks Ann - I don't know why he has his jaws locked around that particular delusion, maybe because I don't believe that all things were born in a Buddhist stupa, but then neither does anyone else on FFL so maybe that's not it. And you are right about the teachers, they pretty much ignored staff unless it was someone with some sort of authority like Bill Sands or Kingsley Brooks. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! He wasn't a student Richard. But you know that. Teachers don't generally know who is on staff, especially in the kitchen - they are too busy enjoying the food. TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Thanks Ann - I don't know why he has his jaws locked around that particular delusion, maybe because I don't believe that all things were born in a Buddhist stupa, but then neither does anyone else on FFL so maybe that's not it. And you are right about the teachers, they pretty much ignored staff unless it was someone with some sort of authority like Bill Sands or Kingsley Brooks. I have to say that the food at MIU, even though you were not there quite yet (1975-1980) was extraordinary and I, for one, appreciate the time, effort and skill that went into preparing seemingly endless quantities of it for us gluttonous students. So thank you and all those before you who made all that meditating, rounding and those siddhi courses bearable by filling those food trays with mounds of delicious breakfasts, lunches and dinners. I had a good friend who was on kitchen staff as a baker back when I was there; I know she worked her butt off. From: Ann awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@ wrote: Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway mjackson74: that's because you never knew anyone who counted It is a fact that Robert Keith Wallace never heard of you. besides, I was never at MUM - I worked for MIU Not one single teacher at MIU can remember you. LoL! He wasn't a student Richard. But you know that. Teachers don't generally know who is on staff, especially in the kitchen - they are too busy enjoying the food. TM teachers Can have another life Hey, you're not supposed to be yakking while you're on company time, or for that matter, on the tax-payer's dime. LoL! Your name is already mud all over Fairfield so why insult the TMers here? You suck as an informant - I get more TMer news from the Radiance listserv in Austin. Nobody I know ever heard of you at MUM, anyway. Go figure. 'Why a Government That Collects Everyone's Private Data Won't Let Its Employees Access Public Information' Reason: http://tinyurl.com/o7x9vpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers Can have another life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: I have to say that the food at MIU, even though you were not there quite yet (1975-1980) was extraordinary and I, for one, appreciate the time, effort and skill that went into preparing seemingly endless quantities of it for us gluttonous students. So thank you and all those before you who made all that meditating, rounding and those siddhi courses bearable by filling those food trays with mounds of delicious breakfasts, lunches and dinners. I had a good friend who was on kitchen staff as a baker back when I was there; I know she worked her butt off. I was at MIU for three semesters in 1983-84, and the only memory of food that stands out in my mind was getting violently ill with food poisoning from Mexican night. After 12 hours of puking and dry heaving, there was no way I was ever going to set foot in Annaporky again. So, I bought a little fridge and a hot plate, and I cooked all my own food.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greedy teachers in Chicago demand raise.
This is rich, they're striking for better schools, nyuk. What a charade. (Gotta love those public sector Unions, mostly democrats BTW). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u no_reply@... wrote: The average teacher in Chicago Public Schools -- a district facing a $700 million deficit -- makes $71,000 per year before benefits are included. If the district meets union demands and rewards teachers with the requested salary increase, education employees will receive compensation north of $92,000 per year. According to the Illinois Policy Institute, the average annual income of a family in Chicago is $47,000 per year. If implemented, the 30 percent raise will mean that in nine months, a single teacher in the Chicago Public School system will take home nearly double what the average family in the city earns in a year. http://www.drudge.com/news/160789/chicago-teachers-strike-monday-pay
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greedy teachers in Chicago demand raise.
On 09/10/2012 02:22 AM, wgm4u wrote: This is rich, they're striking for better schools, nyuk. What a charade. (Gotta love those public sector Unions, mostly democrats BTW). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u no_reply@... wrote: The average teacher in Chicago Public Schools -- a district facing a $700 million deficit -- makes $71,000 per year before benefits are included. If the district meets union demands and rewards teachers with the requested salary increase, education employees will receive compensation north of $92,000 per year. According to the Illinois Policy Institute, the average annual income of a family in Chicago is $47,000 per year. If implemented, the 30 percent raise will mean that in nine months, a single teacher in the Chicago Public School system will take home nearly double what the average family in the city earns in a year. http://www.drudge.com/news/160789/chicago-teachers-strike-monday-pay Given the brats they probably have to teach you would probably want to be paid that too! Would you want to be a school teacher, Billy? And don't forget that the cost of living is higher in Chicago than in the boonies. Way higher.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: Now concerning this post by Barry I have no substantial argument with it at all, though I disagree with some points. I started to write this as soon as the post appeared, but due to contingencies, had to delay finishing responding for about a day. This is a reply to the original post rather than the follow ups by others. Just FYI, this post of Barry's is intended almost exclusively as an attack on me--again. Yes, maybe, but there are issues in his post that are relevant to what happens when information is tampered with. Sure, that's interesting stuff. I think you overreact a bit to Turq's posts sometimes. Look, I've been dealing with him for 15 years. I know how he operates; his tactics haven't changed much. There's no reason you'd be aware of all the issues he has with me or be able to recognize when a post of his about a particular topic is based on one of those issues when it doesn't mention me specifically. I'm one of what he calls the Memorex set in that I was never in MMY's presence, unlike most here. While I wish I had had that opportunity, it's not something I ever brood about. We all have things we'd like to have done that we never got the chance to do for one reason or another. Spending time with MMY isn't even that high on my list--if I had to choose between that and having continued my piano lessons, for example, I'd pick the latter without the slightest hesitation. But somewhere along the line Barry decided that it must make me terribly unhappy to be reminded of the fact that I never met MMY, which is absurd because I mention it often myself. And he's put together a whole bunch of ways to try to make me feel inadequate about it, all totally futile. This post was yet another one. I don't have much emotional attachment to the posts. Women seem to me more sensitive to social cues, and seem to try to read between the lines of what is said. That said, I do not understand women, so my analysis could be wrong. No, I think you're quite right, generally speaking. That isn't all that's involved here, however. Guys are much simpler, we tend to trade information only, no feelings. Some posts here are to get people to think, and some are just bait on a hook. Yet even though there are very few women on this forum, there are plenty of feelings on display among the men. Maybe involvement with spiritual pursuits tends to open men up a little more than would otherwise be expected. You do not seem to be a TM true believer, but have realised the value of what you learned. Well, I hope I have to some extent. There's a lot to be realized. Ultimately we have to verify everything ourselves, not on the basis of belief. You often seem to criticise posts for faulty logic or factual discrepancies, which is a good thing. I am surely not prone to supreme perfection, and if I make a mistake, a factual blunder, a mistaken judgement, or just say something incredibly naive or stupid, attack away. Don't see any basis for *attacking* you, but I wouldn't have any hesitation about questioning your points if I thought they were shaky! So far, I've appreciated almost everything you've said. You bring a very thoughtful analytical perspective to the discussions you've participated in. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Glenn Gould's recording company found ways to *edit out* his humming and moaning, so the Memorex set would not even be aware that he brought that kind of passion to his music. snip The engineers were only partially successful in suppressing Gould's humming, thought they did try to minimize its impact on the recording. It's common knowledge among the Memorex set that Gould hummed and moaned while he was playing, not some big secret that the engineers managed to hide. I don't think it was the result of his great passion. I think it was a lack of control--in the sense that Gould exerted such an *extraordinary* degree of control over his playing that he simply didn't have any left over to control his vocal chords. (Cords! Cords! Cords! Ai...how embarrassing!) That might be, Gould was very idiosyncratic in his performances. What is interesting to me is Bach's instrument, the harpsichord, cannot produce most of the effects that Gould implements in his performances. A good harpsichordist is very adept at subtle internal shifts of rhythm. Gould's brilliance in these pieces (the Aria with 30 Variations) often seems to be the result of deliberately eschewing a more 'standard' pianistic technique; he dared to be experimental. Playing Bach on the piano is really a transcription to a very different medium. It is indeed. I'm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
When we at the Regional Office would get the latest dictum from International saying that we had to get all teachers to give back their copies of tapes X, Y and Z... So, I'm the only respondent on this forum that has listened to MMY's commercial recordings on vinyl, cassette, and DVD? Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: Now concerning this post by Barry I have no substantial argument with it at all, though I disagree with some points. I started to write this as soon as the post appeared, but due to contingencies, had to delay finishing responding for about a day. This is a reply to the original post rather than the follow ups by others. Just FYI, this post of Barry's is intended almost exclusively as an attack on me--again. Yes, maybe, but there are issues in his post that are relevant to what happens when information is tampered with. Sure, that's interesting stuff. I think you overreact a bit to Turq's posts sometimes. Look, I've been dealing with him for 15 years. I know how he operates; his tactics haven't changed much. There's no reason you'd be aware of all the issues he has with me or be able to recognize when a post of his about a particular topic is based on one of those issues when it doesn't mention me specifically. I am sure I would not, at least now, be able to identify all those issues of the past, not having enough time to read years of posts. I do find both of you intriguing. I'm one of what he calls the Memorex set in that I was never in MMY's presence, unlike most here. While I wish I had had that opportunity, it's not something I ever brood about. We all have things we'd like to have done that we never got the chance to do for one reason or another. Spending time with MMY isn't even that high on my list--if I had to choose between that and having continued my piano lessons, for example, I'd pick the latter without the slightest hesitation. While I got to see Maharishi on a few occasions, I do not think that was the most important thing, at least for me. Watching a tape, or on live television not being in the same room did not seem to make much difference. However I do feel an edited tape has a great potential to be misleading. Assuming a tape is unedited, ones understanding of it might change seeing it again years later, gives one a second shot at it. The important thing is the essential message gets through. sometimes that can happen with an edited tape, but without knowing who fudged the recording. Vernon Katz once told me he had all these tapes of Maharishi, the commentary on the Bhagavad-Gita, and he was worried about their preservation. I would have loved to transfer them, but had no recourse at the time to go to England, so I have no idea what their status or location is now. So I told him what I thought had to be done and hoped he would be able to take some action. This was the only time I ever met him. I never met Socrates, I never met Jesus, I never met Buddha, I never met Bach, or Handel, or Mozart, or Beethoven, or Pasteur, or Einstein. They have all enriched my life nonetheless. But somewhere along the line Barry decided that it must make me terribly unhappy to be reminded of the fact that I never met MMY, which is absurd because I mention it often myself. And he's put together a whole bunch of ways to try to make me feel inadequate about it, all totally futile. This post was yet another one. I don't have much emotional attachment to the posts. Women seem to me more sensitive to social cues, and seem to try to read between the lines of what is said. That said, I do not understand women, so my analysis could be wrong. No, I think you're quite right, generally speaking. That isn't all that's involved here, however. Guys are much simpler, we tend to trade information only, no feelings. Some posts here are to get people to think, and some are just bait on a hook. Yet even though there are very few women on this forum, there are plenty of feelings on display among the men. Maybe involvement with spiritual pursuits tends to open men up a little more than would otherwise be expected. I would agree with this. It is very surprising how much emotion can arise as the impacted experiences of the past crack loose and pour out. You do not seem to be a TM true believer, but have realised the value of what you learned. Well, I hope I have to some extent. There's a lot to be realized. There are a lot of things to know, but only one thing to realise. Ultimately we have to verify everything ourselves, not on the basis of belief. You often seem to criticise posts for faulty logic or factual discrepancies, which is a good thing. I am surely not prone to supreme perfection, and if I make a mistake, a factual blunder, a mistaken judgement, or just say something incredibly naive or stupid, attack away. Don't see any basis for *attacking* you, but
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
Now concerning this post by Barry I have no substantial argument with it at all, though I disagree with some points. I started to write this as soon as the post appeared, but due to contingencies, had to delay finishing responding for about a day. This is a reply to the original post rather than the follow ups by others. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Most who grew up in the US remember the old TV and radio commercials Is it real, or is it Memorex? The idea being presented in those commercials was that many people can't tell the difference between a live performance and one that was recorded on Memorex-brand tape. I think that the ad agency that thought this up was bril- liant, because there are many people who *can't* tell the difference. Furthermore, they would argue that they, having only heard the recorded versions of, say, Segovia's work, or Keith Jarret's, or Glenn Gould's know as much about the work and the artist as someone who actually saw them perform. With Jarrett, for example, who is famous for... uh...acting out his musical performances by rocking and swaying back and forth on the piano stool, and (like Glenn Gould) uncontrollably humming along with his own music, someone who knew only the recordings could have gained a feeling about the music and the artist that was erroneous. Glenn Gould's recording company found ways to *edit out* his humming and moaning, so the Memorex set would not even be aware that he brought that kind of passion to his music. Once Gould had recorded a Bach fugue, several different takes. One was very clipped and kind of staccato, the other more lyrical. Gould and the editor noticed that the two takes were almost the same duration, and they cut the two together, using the more lyrical take for the episodic passages between the fugal entry sections. In this case the result was rather nice, but of course it was not a live performance. The engineers were only partially successful in suppressing Gould's humming, thought they did try to minimize its impact on the recording. This points out that sometimes editing has a positive side. In a recorded performance, one does not want to hear the same glitches over and over. Once I heard a live performance by the Russian pianist Sviatoslav Richter, and he missed a few notes, but there is a different dynamic live compared to recorded. There is more tension in the air, studio recordings are in a more relaxed environment, not so many things impinging on the artist, like several thousand people focused on you, and no possibility of retakes. Richter started to play, then stopped, got off the seat and removed the whole music stand section of the piano and put it on the floor. A certain sense of humor came through and it broke the ice with the audience. Then he started anew. Now think spiritual teachers. But recorded music versus live is a different situation than with spiritual teachers. It is one thing to remove minor glitches, e.g., the endless uhs that most speakers cannot seem to suppress. Things like this can be edited out of an audio recording without distorting the message or the character significantly, but you cannot do it in video without an obvious visual discrepancy. And extensive editing can result in a message that is distinctly different than the original. When classical music recordings are made, usually the notes are not removed or altered in some way, and some musicians take great pains to go to at least photocopies of original manuscripts to determine the text they are performing. Cutting the actual text of what was said can make for something decidedly different There are some on this forum -- and there is no need to name them because you all know who they are -- who seem to feel that having only dealt with the Memorex version of Maharishi, they know the essence of What he taught, and similarly know things about him as an individual or about his state of consciousness. I think this stance is...uh...self-serving bullshit served up by those who are anxious to hide the fact that they were willing to settle for the expurgated version of the teacher they claim to know things about. You on this forum who met Maharishi, or who spent hours, days, weeks, months, and years sitting in rooms listening to him talk, or working side by side with him getting to see *how* he worked, try to imagine for a moment the level of AVERSION a supposedly strong TMer must have had to have meditated regularly for 20 to 30 years and yet *avoided* ever seeing him in public. It's almost unbelievable. Claiming to revere someone as a great spiritual teacher, or even *their teacher* or master, and yet finding ways *for decades* to avoid ever meeting him. And *then*, years later, presenting themselves as authorities on What Maharishi taught. Scary. I am not sure your characterisation of people avoiding Maharishi is accurate.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
Now concerning this post by Barry I have no substantial
argument with it at all, though I disagree with some
points. I started to write this as soon as the post
appeared, but due to contingencies, had to delay
finishing responding for about a day. This is a reply
to the original post rather than the follow ups by
others.
Just FYI, this post of Barry's is intended almost
exclusively as an attack on me--again.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
snip
Glenn Gould's recording company found ways to *edit out*
his humming and moaning, so the Memorex set would not even
be aware that he brought that kind of passion to his music.
snip
The engineers were only partially successful in suppressing
Gould's humming, thought they did try to minimize its impact
on the recording.
It's common knowledge among the Memorex set that Gould
hummed and moaned while he was playing, not some big
secret that the engineers managed to hide.
I don't think it was the result of his great passion. I
think it was a lack of control--in the sense that Gould
exerted such an *extraordinary* degree of control over
his playing that he simply didn't have any left over to
control his vocal chords.
snip
I am not sure your characterisation of people avoiding
Maharishi is accurate. There are some that maybe thought
Maharishi could see through them in some way, and were
afraid for that reason, but all the people I knew seemed
to have the opposite view, they wanted to see him if
they could.
Same here. I wonder why anyone would assume any such
avoidance syndrome. Plenty of rank-and-filers didn't
particularly care, but nobody I knew actively didn't
want to see him. There seems to be a special effort
here to put down those who never spent time with MMY,
but it's unclear why anyone would want to do that.
snip
The dynamic of live interaction of Maharishi with questions
is much more clearly experienced; offhand comments reveal
aspects of the situation often more truly that the standard
patter. These kind of things tend to be edited out of
movement tapes.
I saw several terrific tapes of QA sessions in the early
days of my involvement with TM ('75-80). Don't know if
they're still available, and if they are it's certainly
possible they've been edited down. But they did have a
wonderfully dynamic quality, and one did get at least
some sense of MMY's personality, more than there was in
the straight lectures.
A strange things seems to happen in spiritual movements as
they grow, especially after the founder is gone. The message
seems to get de-emphasised and more emphasis is put on the
nature of the founder. An acquaintence of mine came up with
the phrase 'ecclesiastical bureaucrats' to describe those
that tend to filter into a spiritual organization.
Great phrase. The movement becomes more about preserving
the institution than preserving the message, the founder
being symbolic of the institution.
snip
Look at what happened to Christianity, how many versions
of this man exist today? No original material survives.
There are no contemporary accounts (although there is
what is considered an obvious interpolation in the
history of Josephus). The earliest records are certain
letters from Paul to various Christian groups, and some
of these are thought to be only in his name.
And he had never met Jesus! Hmmm...Christianity's
most authoritative theologian and conveyor of Christ's
message, and he'd never been in the same room with him.
All the literature that existed was worked over by
committee, kept or rejected, and massaged into a more or
less standard form. As a result we have no good idea of
what Jesus taught, just some tantalising clues. Of course,
there are thousands today who will tell us they know
exactly was Jesus' message was.
This has happened in the TMO much sooner than in
Christianity.
I don't think we know how soon it began to happen with
Christianity. But it wouldn't be at all surprising if
it did take longer, simply because of the fact that it
was quite some time before the teachings that were being
passed around orally--and undergoing who knows how many
changes--were set down on paper where they could be
deliberately edited. And the editing process itself was
much more laborious in the absence of modern technology.
MMY's intention practically from the start--quite unlike
that of Jesus--was to have his teaching recorded for
posterity (ironically so it *wouldn't* be changed). That
meant that the inevitable process of shaping the
teaching got started much earlier (much of it by MMY's
own hand).
So I don't think the two cases are really comparable in
that regard.
snip
And yet they talk, talk, talk about the truth of What
Maharishi taught, which they know solely from his tapes and
his books (some of which were not even written by him). Truth?
I say to them the same thing
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: snip I don't think it was the result of his great passion. I think it was a lack of control--in the sense that Gould exerted such an *extraordinary* degree of control over his playing that he simply didn't have any left over to control his vocal chords. Oy gevalt. *Cords*, not chords. I wince every time I see someone else make this mistake, and now I've done it myself! facepalm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@
wrote:
Now concerning this post by Barry I have no substantial
argument with it at all, though I disagree with some
points. I started to write this as soon as the post
appeared, but due to contingencies, had to delay
finishing responding for about a day. This is a reply
to the original post rather than the follow ups by
others.
Just FYI, this post of Barry's is intended almost
exclusively as an attack on me--again.
Yes, maybe, but there are issues in his post that are relevant to what happens
when information is tampered with. I think you overreact a bit to Turq's posts
sometimes. I don't have much emotional attachment to the posts. Women seem to
me more sensitive to social cues, and seem to try to read between the lines of
what is said. That said, I do not understand women, so my analysis could be
wrong. Guys are much simpler, we tend to trade information only, no feelings.
Some posts here are to get people to think, and some are just bait on a hook.
You do not seem to be a TM true believer, but have realised the value of what
you learned. Ultimately we have to verify everything ourselves, not on the
basis of belief. You often seem to criticise posts for faulty logic or factual
discrepancies, which is a good thing. I am surely not prone to supreme
perfection, and if I make a mistake, a factual blunder, a mistaken judgement,
or just say something incredibly naive or stupid, attack away.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
snip
Glenn Gould's recording company found ways to *edit out*
his humming and moaning, so the Memorex set would not even
be aware that he brought that kind of passion to his music.
snip
The engineers were only partially successful in suppressing
Gould's humming, thought they did try to minimize its impact
on the recording.
It's common knowledge among the Memorex set that Gould
hummed and moaned while he was playing, not some big
secret that the engineers managed to hide.
I don't think it was the result of his great passion. I
think it was a lack of control--in the sense that Gould
exerted such an *extraordinary* degree of control over
his playing that he simply didn't have any left over to
control his vocal chords.
That might be, Gould was very idiosyncratic in his performances. What is
interesting to me is Bach's instrument, the harpsichord, cannot produce most of
the effects that Gould implements in his performances. A good harpsichordist is
very adept at subtle internal shifts of rhythm. Gould's brilliance in these
pieces (the Aria with 30 Variations) often seems to be the result of
deliberately eschewing a more 'standard' pianistic technique; he dared to be
experimental. Playing Bach on the piano is really a transcription to a very
different medium.
snip
I am not sure your characterisation of people avoiding
Maharishi is accurate. There are some that maybe thought
Maharishi could see through them in some way, and were
afraid for that reason, but all the people I knew seemed
to have the opposite view, they wanted to see him if
they could.
Same here. I wonder why anyone would assume any such
avoidance syndrome. Plenty of rank-and-filers didn't
particularly care, but nobody I knew actively didn't
want to see him. There seems to be a special effort
here to put down those who never spent time with MMY,
but it's unclear why anyone would want to do that.
snip
The dynamic of live interaction of Maharishi with questions
is much more clearly experienced; offhand comments reveal
aspects of the situation often more truly that the standard
patter. These kind of things tend to be edited out of
movement tapes.
I saw several terrific tapes of QA sessions in the early
days of my involvement with TM ('75-80). Don't know if
they're still available, and if they are it's certainly
possible they've been edited down. But they did have a
wonderfully dynamic quality, and one did get at least
some sense of MMY's personality, more than there was in
the straight lectures.
A strange things seems to happen in spiritual movements as
they grow, especially after the founder is gone. The message
seems to get de-emphasised and more emphasis is put on the
nature of the founder. An acquaintance of mine came up with
the phrase 'ecclesiastical bureaucrats' to describe those
that tend to filter into a spiritual organization.
Great phrase. The movement becomes more about preserving
the institution than preserving the message, the founder
being symbolic of the institution.
snip
Look at what happened to Christianity, how many versions
of this man exist today? No original material survives.
There are no contemporary accounts (although there is
what is considered an obvious interpolation in the
history of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
I Remember the Actual Commercial Being: 'Is it 'Live' or is it 'Memorex?' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Most who grew up in the US remember the old TV and radio commercials Is it real, or is it Memorex? The idea being presented in those commercials was that many people can't tell the difference between a live performance and one that was recorded on Memorex-brand tape. I think that the ad agency that thought this up was bril- liant, because there are many people who *can't* tell the difference. Furthermore, they would argue that they, having only heard the recorded versions of, say, Segovia's work, or Keith Jarret's, or Glenn Gould's know as much about the work and the artist as someone who actually saw them perform. With Jarrett, for example, who is famous for... uh...acting out his musical performances by rocking and swaying back and forth on the piano stool, and (like Glenn Gould) uncontrollably humming along with his own music, someone who knew only the recordings could have gained a feeling about the music and the artist that was erroneous. Glenn Gould's recording company found ways to *edit out* his humming and moaning, so the Memorex set would not even be aware that he brought that kind of passion to his music. Now think spiritual teachers. There are some on this forum -- and there is no need to name them because you all know who they are -- who seem to feel that having only dealt with the Memorex version of Maharishi, they know the essence of What he taught, and similarly know things about him as an individual or about his state of consciousness. I think this stance is...uh...self-serving bullshit served up by those who are anxious to hide the fact that they were willing to settle for the expurgated version of the teacher they claim to know things about. You on this forum who met Maharishi, or who spent hours, days, weeks, months, and years sitting in rooms listening to him talk, or working side by side with him getting to see *how* he worked, try to imagine for a moment the level of AVERSION a supposedly strong TMer must have had to have meditated regularly for 20 to 30 years and yet *avoided* ever seeing him in public. It's almost unbelievable. Claiming to revere someone as a great spiritual teacher, or even *their teacher* or master, and yet finding ways *for decades* to avoid ever meeting him. And *then*, years later, presenting themselves as authorities on What Maharishi taught. Scary. When it comes to spiritual teachers, my contention is that there is a difference between real and Memorex. If nothing else, the Memorex version disallows any perception of the teacher's vibe, and what it was like to be around him. How can the Memorex set even *begin* to claim to be know- ledgeable enough about the subject of charisma or darshan if they have never experienced it? And yet they do. On another level, there is the issue of expurgation. At one point in my life, I would say that I had probably listened to or watched as many tapes of Maharishi as anyone on this forum. I was in charge of the Western Regional Office, and thus in charge of its tape library, which contained thousands of tapes. All of them were essentially my private video and audio library. I could take them home and listen to them anytime I wanted, and was such a TB dweeb that I actually did. :-) But then, about 1976, the first recalls and attempts at systematic expurgation started. We started getting demands from International to send them our copies of certain tapes. And when I say demands, I mean demands. If we did not comply, they sent someone over to the US to collect them from us. We were then told that they would be replaced by newer, better quality versions of the same tapes. This was only partially true. About 50% of the recalled tapes never appeared again in any format. And the tapes that were actually replaced invariably had shrunk somewhat. It was not uncommon for a tape that originally had lasted for 40 minutes and touched on some interesting or touchy subjects to come back to us in a new, improved version that was only 20 minutes long, carefully edited to make it seem that there had been no editing. At that point I stopped listening to the tapes, because I knew that there was never going to be anything interesting on any of them from then on out. Now try to imagine the Memorex set, who never knew that this was being done. There they'd be, sitting in some TM center or on some residence course thinking that they were getting the real Maharishi, all while listening to the 20-minute expurgated version of one of his tapes. But the biggest issue is that the Memorex set *never met the man*. They never had a chance to sit through an unexpur- gated lecture, and watch his thought processes as he form- lated it, without the benefit of revisionist history editing
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Most who grew up in the US remember the old TV and radio commercials Is it real, or is it Memorex? The idea being presented in those commercials was that many people can't tell the difference between a live performance and one that was recorded on Memorex-brand tape. I think that the ad agency that thought this up was bril- liant, because there are many people who *can't* tell the difference. Furthermore, they would argue that they, having only heard the recorded versions of, say, Segovia's work, or Keith Jarret's, or Glenn Gould's know as much about the work and the artist as someone who actually saw them perform. With Jarrett, for example, who is famous for... uh...acting out his musical performances by rocking and swaying back and forth on the piano stool, and (like Glenn Gould) uncontrollably humming along with his own music, someone who knew only the recordings could have gained a feeling about the music and the artist that was erroneous. Glenn Gould's recording company found ways to *edit out* his humming and moaning, so the Memorex set would not even be aware that he brought that kind of passion to his music. Now think spiritual teachers. There are some on this forum -- and there is no need to name them because you all know who they are -- who seem to feel that having only dealt with the Memorex version of Maharishi, they know the essence of What he taught, and similarly know things about him as an individual or about his state of consciousness. I think this stance is...uh...self-serving bullshit served up by those who are anxious to hide the fact that they were willing to settle for the expurgated version of the teacher they claim to know things about. You on this forum who met Maharishi, or who spent hours, days, weeks, months, and years sitting in rooms listening to him talk, or working side by side with him getting to see *how* he worked, try to imagine for a moment the level of AVERSION a supposedly strong TMer must have had to have meditated regularly for 20 to 30 years and yet *avoided* ever seeing him in public. It's almost unbelievable. Claiming to revere someone as a great spiritual teacher, or even *their teacher* or master, and yet finding ways *for decades* to avoid ever meeting him. And *then*, years later, presenting themselves as authorities on What Maharishi taught. Scary. When it comes to spiritual teachers, my contention is that there is a difference between real and Memorex. If nothing else, the Memorex version disallows any perception of the teacher's vibe, and what it was like to be around him. How can the Memorex set even *begin* to claim to be know- ledgeable enough about the subject of charisma or darshan if they have never experienced it? And yet they do. On another level, there is the issue of expurgation. At one point in my life, I would say that I had probably listened to or watched as many tapes of Maharishi as anyone on this forum. I was in charge of the Western Regional Office, and thus in charge of its tape library, which contained thousands of tapes. All of them were essentially my private video and audio library. I could take them home and listen to them anytime I wanted, and was such a TB dweeb that I actually did. :-) But then, about 1976, the first recalls and attempts at systematic expurgation started. We started getting demands from International to send them our copies of certain tapes. And when I say demands, I mean demands. If we did not comply, they sent someone over to the US to collect them from us. We were then told that they would be replaced by newer, better quality versions of the same tapes. This was only partially true. About 50% of the recalled tapes never appeared again in any format. And the tapes that were actually replaced invariably had shrunk somewhat. It was not uncommon for a tape that originally had lasted for 40 minutes and touched on some interesting or touchy subjects to come back to us in a new, improved version that was only 20 minutes long, carefully edited to make it seem that there had been no editing. This did happen - tapes being recalled and some never replaced. Do you recall specifically what was edited out on a few of them?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: On another level, there is the issue of expurgation. At one point in my life, I would say that I had probably listened to or watched as many tapes of Maharishi as anyone on this forum. I was in charge of the Western Regional Office, and thus in charge of its tape library, which contained thousands of tapes. All of them were essentially my private video and audio library. I could take them home and listen to them anytime I wanted, and was such a TB dweeb that I actually did. :-) But then, about 1976, the first recalls and attempts at systematic expurgation started. We started getting demands from International to send them our copies of certain tapes. And when I say demands, I mean demands. If we did not comply, they sent someone over to the US to collect them from us. We were then told that they would be replaced by newer, better quality versions of the same tapes. This was only partially true. About 50% of the recalled tapes never appeared again in any format. And the tapes that were actually replaced invariably had shrunk somewhat. It was not uncommon for a tape that originally had lasted for 40 minutes and touched on some interesting or touchy subjects to come back to us in a new, improved version that was only 20 minutes long, carefully edited to make it seem that there had been no editing. This did happen - tapes being recalled and some never replaced. The capper was that when replacements were made available, the Regional Office or the individual TM Centers from which the original tapes were confiscated *had to pay for them again*. Do you recall specifically what was edited out on a few of them? When this revisionist history process first started it was clearly tied to the recent TM is a religion controversy and lawsuits in the US. Most of what was edited out involved MMY talking about God, or putting down the Western version of religion. At the same time, topics that deviated from the SCI or SIMS point of view were edited out. This involved SRM-ish topics such as reincarnation or saints and deities and talks in which Maharishi used traditional Hindu terms for concepts instead of English terms. Once the first wave of this revisionist history passed, and the individual teachers and TM Centers realized they'd been had, they wised up. When we at the Regional Office would get the latest dictum from International saying that we had to get all teachers to give back their copies of tapes X, Y and Z, and we'd call the centers asking for these tapes, we'd be told that they had gotten lost, and that the teachers or centers no longer had them. They were lying, and we knew they were lying, but we actually agreed with their position and reported back to Seelisberg what we'd been told. It was a nudge nudge, wink wink kind of thing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: On another level, there is the issue of expurgation. At one point in my life, I would say that I had probably listened to or watched as many tapes of Maharishi as anyone on this forum. I was in charge of the Western Regional Office, and thus in charge of its tape library, which contained thousands of tapes. All of them were essentially my private video and audio library. I could take them home and listen to them anytime I wanted, and was such a TB dweeb that I actually did. :-) But then, about 1976, the first recalls and attempts at systematic expurgation started. We started getting demands from International to send them our copies of certain tapes. And when I say demands, I mean demands. If we did not comply, they sent someone over to the US to collect them from us. We were then told that they would be replaced by newer, better quality versions of the same tapes. This was only partially true. About 50% of the recalled tapes never appeared again in any format. And the tapes that were actually replaced invariably had shrunk somewhat. It was not uncommon for a tape that originally had lasted for 40 minutes and touched on some interesting or touchy subjects to come back to us in a new, improved version that was only 20 minutes long, carefully edited to make it seem that there had been no editing. This did happen - tapes being recalled and some never replaced. The capper was that when replacements were made available, the Regional Office or the individual TM Centers from which the original tapes were confiscated *had to pay for them again*. Yes, a milder version of local centers raising money for and buying land or buildings, only to have proceeds from the eventual sale of the center go to International. If they ever again needed a center, they had to start all over raising money just to rent something. Do you recall specifically what was edited out on a few of them? When this revisionist history process first started it was clearly tied to the recent TM is a religion controversy and lawsuits in the US. Most of what was edited out involved MMY talking about God, or putting down the Western version of religion. At the same time, topics that deviated from the SCI or SIMS point of view were edited out. This involved SRM-ish topics such as reincarnation or saints and deities and talks in which Maharishi used traditional Hindu terms for concepts instead of English terms. Once the first wave of this revisionist history passed, and the individual teachers and TM Centers realized they'd been had, they wised up. When we at the Regional Office would get the latest dictum from International saying that we had to get all teachers to give back their copies of tapes X, Y and Z, and we'd call the centers asking for these tapes, we'd be told that they had gotten lost, and that the teachers or centers no longer had them. They were lying, and we knew they were lying, but we actually agreed with their position and reported back to Seelisberg what we'd been told. It was a nudge nudge, wink wink kind of thing. Yes, this happened. Do you have any knowledge about who exactly at International made these decisions about recalls? Was this MMY's idea?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: On another level, there is the issue of expurgation. At one point in my life, I would say that I had probably listened to or watched as many tapes of Maharishi as anyone on this forum. I was in charge of the Western Regional Office, and thus in charge of its tape library, which contained thousands of tapes. All of them were essentially my private video and audio library. I could take them home and listen to them anytime I wanted, and was such a TB dweeb that I actually did. :-) But then, about 1976, the first recalls and attempts at systematic expurgation started. We started getting demands from International to send them our copies of certain tapes. And when I say demands, I mean demands. If we did not comply, they sent someone over to the US to collect them from us. We were then told that they would be replaced by newer, better quality versions of the same tapes. This was only partially true. About 50% of the recalled tapes never appeared again in any format. And the tapes that were actually replaced invariably had shrunk somewhat. It was not uncommon for a tape that originally had lasted for 40 minutes and touched on some interesting or touchy subjects to come back to us in a new, improved version that was only 20 minutes long, carefully edited to make it seem that there had been no editing. This did happen - tapes being recalled and some never replaced. The capper was that when replacements were made available, the Regional Office or the individual TM Centers from which the original tapes were confiscated *had to pay for them again*. Yes, a milder version of local centers raising money for and buying land or buildings, only to have proceeds from the eventual sale of the center go to International. If they ever again needed a center, they had to start all over raising money just to rent something. Do you recall specifically what was edited out on a few of them? When this revisionist history process first started it was clearly tied to the recent TM is a religion controversy and lawsuits in the US. Most of what was edited out involved MMY talking about God, or putting down the Western version of religion. At the same time, topics that deviated from the SCI or SIMS point of view were edited out. This involved SRM-ish topics such as reincarnation or saints and deities and talks in which Maharishi used traditional Hindu terms for concepts instead of English terms. Once the first wave of this revisionist history passed, and the individual teachers and TM Centers realized they'd been had, they wised up. When we at the Regional Office would get the latest dictum from International saying that we had to get all teachers to give back their copies of tapes X, Y and Z, and we'd call the centers asking for these tapes, we'd be told that they had gotten lost, and that the teachers or centers no longer had them. They were lying, and we knew they were lying, but we actually agreed with their position and reported back to Seelisberg what we'd been told. It was a nudge nudge, wink wink kind of thing. Yes, this happened. Do you have any knowledge about who exactly at International made these decisions about recalls? Was this MMY's idea? I have no idea, sorry. We'd just receive the decrees from some amorphous entity in Switzerland called Inter- national. Even Jerry, when he disagreed with one of their decrees, couldn't do anything about them or refuse to go along with them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote:Who? important point and question since the same thing happen ...mmh... just not log ago check out #275062 and #259400 and weep --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: On another level, there is the issue of expurgation. At one point in my life, I would say that I had probably listened to or watched as many tapes of Maharishi as anyone on this forum. I was in charge of the Western Regional Office, and thus in charge of its tape library, which contained thousands of tapes. All of them were essentially my private video and audio library. I could take them home and listen to them anytime I wanted, and was such a TB dweeb that I actually did. :-) But then, about 1976, the first recalls and attempts at systematic expurgation started. We started getting demands from International to send them our copies of certain tapes. And when I say demands, I mean demands. If we did not comply, they sent someone over to the US to collect them from us. We were then told that they would be replaced by newer, better quality versions of the same tapes. This was only partially true. About 50% of the recalled tapes never appeared again in any format. And the tapes that were actually replaced invariably had shrunk somewhat. It was not uncommon for a tape that originally had lasted for 40 minutes and touched on some interesting or touchy subjects to come back to us in a new, improved version that was only 20 minutes long, carefully edited to make it seem that there had been no editing. This did happen - tapes being recalled and some never replaced. The capper was that when replacements were made available, the Regional Office or the individual TM Centers from which the original tapes were confiscated *had to pay for them again*. Yes, a milder version of local centers raising money for and buying land or buildings, only to have proceeds from the eventual sale of the center go to International. If they ever again needed a center, they had to start all over raising money just to rent something. Do you recall specifically what was edited out on a few of them? When this revisionist history process first started it was clearly tied to the recent TM is a religion controversy and lawsuits in the US. Most of what was edited out involved MMY talking about God, or putting down the Western version of religion. At the same time, topics that deviated from the SCI or SIMS point of view were edited out. This involved SRM-ish topics such as reincarnation or saints and deities and talks in which Maharishi used traditional Hindu terms for concepts instead of English terms. Once the first wave of this revisionist history passed, and the individual teachers and TM Centers realized they'd been had, they wised up. When we at the Regional Office would get the latest dictum from International saying that we had to get all teachers to give back their copies of tapes X, Y and Z, and we'd call the centers asking for these tapes, we'd be told that they had gotten lost, and that the teachers or centers no longer had them. They were lying, and we knew they were lying, but we actually agreed with their position and reported back to Seelisberg what we'd been told. It was a nudge nudge, wink wink kind of thing. Yes, this happened. Do you have any knowledge about who exactly at International made these decisions about recalls? Was this MMY's idea?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
OMG talking about You can't *handle* the truth. heavy stuff for the weekend , dude [:D] ...lol --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: snip That's the picture of Maharishi that I think the Memorex set has. I think they cling to it because they're reluctant to admit their own spiritual laziness in never having expended the effort to actually see him live, and I think that they cling to it because they actually *prefer* the simplistic, heavily edited, expurgated version of the man and What he taught. And yet they talk, talk, talk about the truth of What Maharishi taught, which they know solely from his tapes and his books (some of which were not even written by him). Truth? I say to them the same thing Jack Nicholson said to Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men. The truth? You can't *handle* the truth. ... then what is your ' take of the interview of P .Mason the biographer of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - i found at: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/ark/stories/2008/2160504.htm Rachael Kohn: Paul, did you ever meet Maharishi Mahesh Yogi? Paul Mason: Initially I wanted to, and then I changed my mind. I thought, Well this man has such a profound effect on all of his followers - Mike Love of The Beach Boys and The Beatles - their lives never seemed the same. I was determined to get close to him to find out as much as I possibly could, to be a sort of fly on the wall. But I held back from getting too close to him. Rachael Kohn: Why? Paul Mason: I think he had an incredible hold over his followers. I think he had an almost hypnotic, mesmerising effect on people, and I guess I would be as vulnerable as anybody else to that, and I could see that, so I didn't want to get that involved. in IMHO wouln't it be great if Deepak Chopra had done the same (BTW according our personal first- and last - contact he was afraid, too..)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
...they're reluctant to admit their own spiritual laziness in never having expended the effort to actually see him live, and I think that they cling to it because they actually *prefer* the simplistic, heavily edited, expurgated version of the man and What he taught. merudanda: You can't *handle* the truth... That's funny, but the truth is, almost nobody in the TMO spent any prolonged time face-to-face, one on one, with the Maharisihi, except maybe Jerry and Debbie Jarvis. It is a myth that anyone spent any length of time in the company of MMY. Apparently MMY visited Fairfield, IA on one single occasion, and never even set foot in Washington D.C. or Portland, OR. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. MMY was in Los Angeles only a few times, for a few days, so after 1965, when he was at Lake Arrowhead, he didn't spend much time with anyone associated with SIMS or the rank and file that passed out leaflets. It's a fact that MMY wasn't even visited by anyone in the last twenty years of his life at Vlodrop. Go figure. All these early details are available in the book Thirty Years Around the World. I've probably spent more face-time with MMY at 433 than anyone on the FFL forum. I sat in the front row at the theater on Wilshire Blvd on ALL occasions when MMY was in LA. The last time I saw MMY was in Houston, TX, when he recorded his most famous lecture. According to one course manager at the Majorrca TTC, the Maharishi used to stay in a separate hotel, and flew into town for just a few hours. One TTC participant stated that he spend six months in South Asia on a TTC and not once was visited by MMY! So, what would a TTC participant be doing hanging around MMY when they were supposed to be meditating and rounding? One informant wrote that most of the international staff were able to meet with MMY on a boat a few times, but it looks like only one guy ever got to ask MMY a question when Nadikishore or Jemimah Pittman wasn't around. Flagship Gottard, Seligsberg So, I don't buy into the fable that any TMers have been inside MMY's bedroom, alone with him, in the dead of night wearing ankle bells. LoL! From what I've read, the high point of being with MMY was to be able to sit down at the dinning table with him for a fruit cup. Only THEN, could anyone be considered a member of MMY's inner circle. MMY at Jones Hall: http://www.rwilliams.us/jones-hall/ http://www.rwilliams.us/jones-hall/ 'An Introduction to SCI' Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Live, Jones Hall, Houston, 1972 VHS Video, 60 min. Color. MIU Historic Film Series 'A Promise for the Family of Man' Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Audio Cassette, 60 min. SIMS Film and Tape Library A Promise for the Family of Man DVD: http://www.mumpress.com/videos/maharishi/n03.html http://www.mumpress.com/videos/maharishi/n03.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: snip Glenn Gould's recording company found ways to *edit out* his humming and moaning, so the Memorex set would not even be aware that he brought that kind of passion to his music. Actually, I have several commercial recordings of Gould in which his humming and moaning is very clearly audible. I've heard many others on the radio of which the same is true. Reviewers of his recordings constantly complain about the humming. Not relevant to the points Barry goes on to make, just one more instance of his getting the facts wrong. Now think spiritual teachers. There are some on this forum -- and there is no need to name them because you all know who they are -- who seem to feel that having only dealt with the Memorex version of Maharishi, they know the essence of What he taught, and similarly know things about him as an individual or about his state of consciousness. Barry is obviously including me in this, but he's got his facts wrong *again* where I'm concerned. I don't feel any of the above. snip You on this forum who met Maharishi, or who spent hours, days, weeks, months, and years sitting in rooms listening to him talk, or working side by side with him getting to see *how* he worked, try to imagine for a moment the level of AVERSION a supposedly strong TMer must have had to have meditated regularly for 20 to 30 years and yet *avoided* ever seeing him in public. No aversion, no avoidance on my part. In fact, I went to considerable lengths (as Barry knows, because I've mentioned it several times) to attend a week-long WPA in DC when it was said that he would be there. He didn't show, unfortunately, but I enjoyed the course anyway. When it comes to spiritual teachers, my contention is that there is a difference between real and Memorex. If nothing else, the Memorex version disallows any perception of the teacher's vibe, and what it was like to be around him. How can the Memorex set even *begin* to claim to be know- ledgeable enough about the subject of charisma or darshan if they have never experienced it? And yet they do. Some may. I don't. snip Now try to imagine the Memorex set, who never knew that this was being done. There they'd be, sitting in some TM center or on some residence course thinking that they were getting the real Maharishi, all while listening to the 20-minute expurgated version of one of his tapes. We were getting what the real Maharishi wanted us to get. Expurgated or otherwise, those tapes contained his public teaching. But the biggest issue is that the Memorex set *never met the man*. They never had a chance to sit through an unexpur- gated lecture, and watch his thought processes as he form- lated it, without the benefit of revisionist history editing later. More important, they never got to feel the vibe of the man, or see him in any of his...uh...lesser moments, like the ones in which he said We never speak ill of others, and then followed it up -- sometimes in the *same* talk -- with George W. Bush is a rakshasa or England is a Scorpion Nation. The Memorex set missed out on all of these moments that could potentially cause cognitive dissonance. My feeling is that this is exactly why they avoided ever seeing Maharishi live. The Memorex set is *terrified* of cognitive dissonance. They like their spiritual teach- ings edited, simplified down to a simplistic level for the lowest common denominator, and expurgated. Very, very expurgated. IMO they studiously avoided ever seeing MMY live because they preferred their FANTASIES of the man, and didn't want those fantasies messed with by such a nasty thing as reality. Utter, utter self-serving bullshit. Just for one thing, if we wanted to preserve our fantasies, why on earth would we be hanging out on FFL reading what his critics-- who did spend time with him--have to say about him? snip And yet they talk, talk, talk about the truth of What Maharishi taught, Ooops, Barry's got This is *what* MMY taught mixed up again with What MMY taught is *true*. Not the same at all. which they know solely from his tapes and his books (some of which were not even written by him). Truth? Yes, as in, It's true that he taught thus-and-so. This one's a big loser for you, Barry. Do yourself a favor and drop it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Teachers: Real, or Memorex?
turquoiseb: Once the first wave of this revisionist history passed, and the individual teachers and TM Centers realized they'd been had, they wised up. When we at the Regional Office would get the latest dictum from International saying that we had to get all teachers to give back their copies of tapes X, Y and Z... What tapes? VHS video wasn't even invented until 1971 by JVC in Japan. The first VCR to use VHS was the Victor HR-3300, which was introduced on September 9, 1976. The Compact Cassette tape wasn't in widespread use until 1968. Barry must be dreaming that there were any video 'tapes' at SIMS in 1965. Maybe he's thinking about the early films of MMY. Most of MMY's early voice recording are on reel tape transfered to vinyl at World Pacific in Hollywood.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re cert teachers returning and Investing in FF a joke, CAFO
Thanks for the news. My sister says the sale of the Grant's house to the Marcus's fell through. There are subcultures in FF which are quite oblivious to what happens in the TM/MUM world. The university could disappear entirely (not that I want it to) and I could be quite happy living here and have plenty of wonderful friends. But if the pig thing gets out of hand, none of us may want to live here but most of won't be able to afford to sell our houses and move elsewhere. Let's hope, as you say, that the rich folks fight the pig thing tooth and nail. They have enough money to stop it if it can be stopped, and hopefully they have the determination. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers: fact or fiction?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know how political groups like to take test cases before the courts in order to clarify, defy or establish laws? I'd love it if some ambitious TM teacher in Fairfield who's been shunned from the domes would appeal his or her case, as Craig Pierson says is possible in Erik Gable's op-ed piece. (Pierson says there's always due process.) As I see it, the primary rationale for the banning is irrelevant now that TM teachers must be recertified to remain TM teachers. snip Is that true??? Recertified? Actually it's a good idea, also the TMorg should have had refresher courses for Initiators long ago, but that's just yet another thing the TMorg dropped the ball on! snip To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers: fact or fiction?
Patrick Gillam wrote: TM teachers must be recertified to remain TM teachers. wmurphy77 wrote: Is that true??? Recertified? Unless they've been recertified, people who were once qualified to teach the Transcendental Meditation technique of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi are not to teach TM or check the meditations of people who've learned TM. The exception is that TM teachers may check the meditations of their own initiates. Actually it's a good idea, also the TMorg should have had refresher courses for Initiators long ago, but that's just yet another thing the TMorg dropped the ball on! When Maharishi realized there'd never be enough meditators to make a difference in world consciousness in his lifetime, he quit promoting the teaching, turning instead to other aspects of his Vedic revival. - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers: fact or fiction?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is that true??? Recertified? Actually it's a good idea, also the TMorg should have had refresher courses for Initiators long ago, but that's just yet another thing the TMorg dropped the ball on! BTW, the recertification course had nothing to do with refreshing initiators on the process of teaching tm -- it was all about the business of opening enlightenment centers in malls. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers: fact or fiction?
On Jul 20, 2005, at 12:07 PM, markmeredith2002 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is that true??? Recertified? Actually it's a good idea, also the TMorg should have had refresher courses for Initiators long ago, but that's just yet another thing the TMorg dropped the ball on! BTW, the recertification course had nothing to do with refreshing initiators on the process of teaching tm -- it was all about the business of opening enlightenment centers in malls. Is it true that it was also to get them to sign a new, more binding, legal agreement? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers: fact or fiction?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Patrick Gillam wrote: TM teachers must be recertified to remain TM teachers. wmurphy77 wrote: Is that true??? Recertified? Unless they've been recertified, people who were once qualified to teach the Transcendental Meditation technique of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi are not to teach TM or check the meditations of people who've learned TM. The exception is that TM teachers may check the meditations of their own initiates. Actually it's a good idea, also the TMorg should have had refresher courses for Initiators long ago, but that's just yet another thing the TMorg dropped the ball on! When Maharishi realized there'd never be enough meditators to make a difference in world consciousness in his lifetime, he quit promoting the teaching, turning instead to other aspects of his Vedic revival. - Patrick Gillam Bingo... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers: fact or fiction?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [...] The problem is probably this: nobody's doing the TM-Sidhis program any more. Well, I am. I feel a difference when I don't do it and when I do, and justa bout everyone around me notices a difference as well. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers: fact or fiction?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is that true??? Recertified? Actually it's a good idea, also the TMorg should have had refresher courses for Initiators long ago, but that's just yet another thing the TMorg dropped the ball on! BTW, the recertification course had nothing to do with refreshing initiators on the process of teaching tm -- it was all about the business of opening enlightenment centers in malls. More to the point, it was about establishing a group of truely loyal TM teachers that could be depended upon by King Tony after MMY is gone. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers all agreed not to see other gurus
It's not just a matter of Vedic knowledge being distorted, but Bevanity distorts everything -- it has to. But, as people are tired of hearing from me, it does not matter, because only a slow unfolding of enlightenment values can work in the Kaliyuga, so everything will come out in the wash, no problem: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/retards.html#light I'm certainly not tired of hearing from you. I find, among other things, your collection of quotes from Maharishi truly uplifting, and many of your analysis very interesting. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers all agreed not to see other gurus
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue came up repeatedly during a community meeting last summer hosted by TM movement leaders. Robert Keith Wallace, an M.U.M. trustee and the university's first president, fielded several questions about reports of people being banned from the domes after visiting other spiritual leaders. Wallace said TM teachers all agreed when they became teachers not to see other gurus. Yikes I did? I don't remember that part. Probably a relatively recent addition. Did you become a TM teacher after Robin Carlson proclaimed himself Shankaracharya of NOrth America? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers all agreed not to see other gurus
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue came up repeatedly during a community meeting last summer hosted by TM movement leaders. Robert Keith Wallace, an M.U.M. trustee and the university's first president, fielded several questions about reports of people being banned from the domes after visiting other spiritual leaders. Wallace said TM teachers all agreed when they became teachers not to see other gurus. Yikes I did? I don't remember that part. In all the agreements that I have signed since I became a TM-Teacher in 1975, it says nothing about not to see other gurus. What we did sign, was to keep the knowledge pure and not give it out to other organisations. Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers all agreed not to see other gurus
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 7/15/05 10:35 PM, Sal Sunshine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that would have been bad because...? It would imply that the TM teacher had not received total knowledge from MMY, but seeking knowledge elsewhere. (Maharishi said that.) And, to be honest, he assumed that other teachers would do what *he* does, which is take advantage of anyone seen with him, and use them to sell their technique and their tradition. Plus the obvious -- if what you're selling to your naive students is a fairly watered-down version of commonly-available techniques and dogma, in a box with the highest knowledge printed on the label, you really don't want them encountering any other product and comparing it to your own. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers all agreed not to see other gurus
--- Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue came up repeatedly during a community meeting last summer hosted by TM movement leaders. Robert Keith Wallace, an M.U.M. trustee and the university's first president, fielded several questions about reports of people being banned from the domes after visiting other spiritual leaders. Wallace said TM teachers all agreed when they became teachers not to see other gurus. Yikes I did? I don't remember that part. In all the agreements that I have signed since I became a TM-Teacher in 1975, it says nothing about not to see other gurus. What we did sign, was to keep the knowledge pure and not give it out to other organizations. Ingegerd Nor did I sign any agreement in 1973. Again, it is just revisionist history. Don't deal with the current problem, just make others wrong. It's like the TMO has a narcissistic personality disorder: arrogant on the outside to defend against massive unconscious insecurity inside. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers all agreed not to see other gurus
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue came up repeatedly during a community meeting last summer hosted by TM movement leaders. Robert Keith Wallace, an M.U.M. trustee and the university's first president, fielded several questions about reports of people being banned from the domes after visiting other spiritual leaders. Wallace said TM teachers all agreed when they became teachers not to see other gurus. Yikes I did? I don't remember that part. Probably a relatively recent addition. Did you become a TM teacher after Robin Carlson proclaimed himself Shankaracharya of NOrth America? I was on Purusha in Fairfield when all this Robin Carlson stuff started. Did you know that MMY specifically told Bevan (and I heard this directly from Bevan himself) to ignore RC and Bevan did everthing but that? This supports Bob's position that MMY is surrounded by morons! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers all agreed not to see other gurus
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 7/15/05 10:35 PM, Sal Sunshine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that would have been bad because...? It would imply that the TM teacher had not received total knowledge from MMY, but seeking knowledge elsewhere. (Maharishi said that.) And, to be honest, he assumed that other teachers would do what *he* does, which is take advantage of anyone seen with him, and use them to sell their technique and their tradition. Plus the obvious -- if what you're selling to your naive students is a fairly watered-down version of commonly-available techniques and dogma, in a box with the highest knowledge printed on the label, you really don't want them encountering any other product and comparing it to your own. Of course, if someone really IS selling the original, while everyone else is selling distorted versions presented as advanced, your observation doesn't apply. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM teachers all agreed not to see other gurus
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue came up repeatedly during a community meeting last summer hosted by TM movement leaders. Robert Keith Wallace, an M.U.M. trustee and the university's first president, fielded several questions about reports of people being banned from the domes after visiting other spiritual leaders. Wallace said TM teachers all agreed when they became teachers not to see other gurus. Yikes I did? I don't remember that part. Probably a relatively recent addition. Did you become a TM teacher after Robin Carlson proclaimed himself Shankaracharya of NOrth America? I was on Purusha in Fairfield when all this Robin Carlson stuff started. Did you know that MMY specifically told Bevan (and I heard this directly from Bevan himself) to ignore RC and Bevan did everthing but that? This supports Bob's position that MMY is surrounded by morons! As MMY (and others) have said, Behavior is a spontaneous expression of one's level of consciousness. Try as they might to be compliant with MMY's wishes, stupid people like Bevan can only be obnoxious and do everything but what MMY has said. From the preface to MMY's commentary on the Gita: This is the tragedy of knowledge, the tragic fate that knowledge must meet at the hands of ignorance. It is inevitable, because the teaching comes from one level of consciousness and is received at quite a different level. It's not just a matter of Vedic knowledge being distorted, but Bevanity distorts everything -- it has to. But, as people are tired of hearing from me, it does not matter, because only a slow unfolding of enlightenment values can work in the Kaliyuga, so everything will come out in the wash, no problem: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/retards.html#light To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: English Teachers.- DO NOT MISLEAD!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, badeaux_rosie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More news. MMY just told the recertified teachers in England that they have to go out of the country now, to teach. No more teaching in England because Blair was elected! Where did you get this information??? To my knowledge this is completely untrue. Lies are not helpful at any time, but especially at the present time. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: English Teachers.- DO NOT MISLEAD!
Thank you sramanist. I assume you are writing from jolly old England? --- sramanist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, badeaux_rosie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More news. MMY just told the recertified teachers in England that they have to go out of the country now, to teach. No more teaching in England because Blair was elected! Where did you get this information??? To my knowledge this is completely untrue. Lies are not helpful at any time, but especially at the present time. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: English Teachers.- DO NOT MISLEAD!
Correct - Teachers coming off the course have mentioned nothing of this. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you sramanist. I assume you are writing from jolly old England? --- sramanist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, badeaux_rosie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More news. MMY just told the recertified teachers in England that they have to go out of the country now, to teach. No more teaching in England because Blair was elected! Where did you get this information??? To my knowledge this is completely untrue. Lies are not helpful at any time, but especially at the present time. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: English Teachers - an apology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sramanist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm afraid I must offer all an apology - the story is indeed true, it appears that Britain is indeed closed down. WOOHOOO ! ! About time too. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: English Teachers - an apology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/10/05 12:02 PM, sramanist at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm afraid I must offer all an apology - the story is indeed true, it appears that Britain is indeed closed down. It's that damned Thames river. Maharishi said years ago that England's troubles were largely attributable to that river being a south entrance to the country. South east, more east than south I think To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: English Teachers - an apology
I'll believe it when I see it on CNN. ;-) L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How bizarre --- sramanist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm afraid I must offer all an apology - the story is indeed true, it appears that Britain is indeed closed down. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
