Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/18/06 11:00:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here's what you said:"Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam or that we have no business helping these people get rid of their dictators that steel their wealth that pours into their nations by the hundreds of billions of dollars. The same also say it's too costly or lets just do what we can to get along so we can do business and keep the oil flowing as cheaply as we can. No, not everybody wants to keep the third world nations impoverished and under the thumbs of dictators, just some."Do you really not find your incredibly feeble copoutabove embarrassing?You were *obviously* referring to politicians. Butnow that you're trying to wiggle out of that andpretend you were talking about people on this forum,it turns out there's only *one* person, and you aren'teven sure they used that term.Moreover, "not ready for" is very different from"not evolved enough." One may be entirelycircumstantial--he wasn't ready for the big leagues(because he hadn't trained long enough)--but thatdoesn't mean *inherently* incapable."Not ready for democracy" is a statement about thesituation; "not evolved enough for democracy" is aninsult to a nation's people. They aren'tinterchangeable.You tried to put that insult, which you yourselfmade up, in the mouths of liberals. Shame on you. Let me ask you then Judy, do you think Iraq is "ready" for Democracy? Or do you think they need a "strong man" to keep their society in order? Obviously several on this list think it was a mistake to change the regime in Iraq. Which means they think Iraq would have been better off ruled under Saddam. Most of the Democrat party NOW believes that if they had known before what they know now, they would have been against the war and there would have been no regime change at least with their consent. So my question to you is, was removing Saddam from power a mistake? And do you think that Iraqi's are not ready for Democracy now?If removing him from power was not a mistake, what would you have replaced him with? Perhaps my word selection accusing liberals of thinking of Arabs as not being "evolved" enough would have been better put as being "not ready for", but either way you put it, it is still an insult to Muslim nations to think they are some how not ready to take the step up to a democratic form of government which Iraq would not have now had Democrat Monday morning Quarter backs had their way. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:30:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm asking for a name and quote from someone whosays Iraqis aren't evolved enough to handledemocracy. I gather you just made that part up. Oh, I've heard easy1 make that comment several times. He may or may not have used the term evolved but said they aren't "ready" for democracy. "Evolved" should be a clue that it wasn't a politician butsomebody on the list. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:30:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm asking for a name and quote from someone whosays Iraqis aren't evolved enough to handledemocracy. I gather you just made that part up. Easy1 has made either that exact statement or one similar numerous times to me. More likely Easy1 would have said to me Arabs aren't ready for democracy. So, no Judy, I didn't just make that up. I'm pretty certain others over the years have made similar statements on this list, I remember thinking "how racist" of a liberal to think Arabs or Muslims weren't good enough forDemocracy. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:33:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Funny, I don't remember much arguing about invadingAfghanistan, at least not after 9/11. Kind of like the 50,000 body bags for US soldiers to take Baghdad caused by gas and chemical attacks.I believe it was the Bushies who kept warning thatSaddam was planning to use gas and chemicals againstAmerican troops. There wasn't a lot of argument about invading Afghanistan. Sentiment was very strong just weeks after 911. But there were a few that did. Yes everybody was concerned about the use of WMD's on invading troops in Iraq but many especially in the media kept saying 50,000 troops would die taking Baghdad. Seems one of them was Sam Donaldson, not sure about that though. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? OF course not. What do you think? A few lunatics on the right do, and unfortunately they've cheated and bullied their way into power. It won't last, it never does. Certainly not in Europe and by no means in Finland. Here I feel we are too understanding of everything people in the Muslim world do and we don't dare to criticize their values and moral thinking. They are seen as just the poor victims. Not a particularly healthy attitude. I don't think they are in the first place victims. I think they are a culture and religion in deep crisis. Something developmental arrest there must be, when big parts of people live in deep poverty in spite of the huge oil riches, and their attitudes and values are on the level people in Europe had in medieval times. Yes, it's pathetic and a huge waste of resources, both material and intellectual. I think in 2001 the gross national product of the whole Arab world, when the oil incomes where reduced, was as big as that of Finland's. Finland has 5 million inhabitants. I find that very telltale. In my opinion the pope addresses this issue in the speech relatively tactfully by a quotation of the issue that he sees to be at the core of the problem. Interesting is also his main theme of the speech that Chistianity has helped in the development of reasonable communication, and moral reasoning among the people in Europe. He also says that he appreciates highly science and its achievements. He is only critical about the narrow use of reason and intellect in scientific thinking. Which I think almost all spiritually inclined people can agree about. His courageous quotation was good also in that sense that it made me and many others read his speech, that I found to be fine. I have never before read a speech by a pope, and got very positively surprised. I'm not a Christian. Now I'm interested in reading it too. Know where I can find it? Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 7:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? OF course not. What do you think? A few lunatics on the right do, and unfortunately they've cheated and bullied their way into power. It won't last, it never does. To present the deva's advocate position, one could safely say that because in theory America is a democracy, and because in a democracy those who get to run the country and set its policies can do so only because the majority of the population *allows* them to do so (via elections), America's policies towards the Third World *do*, in fact, represent the thinking of the American people. Unfortunately, Barry, I agree with you--whether it's because of outright participation (fairly rare) or just plain apathy (much more common, IMO) we here in the US have allowed our leaders to get away with unbelievable horrors in the 3rd world. And it's not really even that the information is or isn't out there (although much of it is) it's that people don't even ask questions--and haven't for decades. I can't explain it--maybe everyone is so overmedicated they can't think straight. (Not much of an excuse, I know, but the best I can come up with right now.) Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. Many don't even care whether people *here* live or die--look at the debacle of Katrina. And when GB's poll #s finally started to go down, was it over horror at what those people endured? No, it was for purely selfish reasons--gas prices. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. The emotional reactions (and overreactions) we're seeing in the Arab world are because they're realizing this, too. I think they've realized it a lot longer than most Americans, unfortunately. The Islamic world, for all it's poverty, does not seem to lack for people who perceive things fairly clearly and who are willing to fight. I might not agree with their methods, but at least it's not apathy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:06 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: Now I'm interested in reading it too. Know where I can find it? Here:http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/ september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university- regensburg_en.html Thanks! Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. OTOH, Barry, as intelligent and thoughtful as most Arabs undoubtedly are, they *have* allowed a small, corrupt cadre of uncaring individuals with little or no conscience (with, admittedly, the aid and support of just-as-corrupt US leaders) to drain the huge oil wealth and resources for decades for palaces, harems, etc for those select few, when it should have gone towards making life better for everyone. It would be interesting to speculate whether or not these corrupt regimes would still be n power w/o US support--my guess is, many would. Apathy is not restricted to our shores. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 7:36:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: they cared anything about these people in Third Worldcountries, Americans wouldn't have allowed their leadersto have treated them the way they have, for decades now. But they clearly *didn't* care, and still don't, because they have done nothing to remove the leaders who treatthe Arab world the way they do. Ummm, we overthrew the Taliban and established a democracy for the people and continue to stay there to stabilize Afghanistan. The only thing Afghanistan has ever offered the world are drugs and terrorism yet we sacrifice or soldiers and our resources to help those people have a better way of life. We also overthrew Saddam, one of these leaders, who treats the Arab world the way they do and have established a democracy there as well in which over 12 million people have voted in. We also continue to pursue this goal of a democracy for these people with American resources and lives so that they can work out their own differences, reconcile with one another and join the rest of the civilized world and one day leave violence behind and enjoy their own prosperity. Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam or that we have no business helping these people get rid of their dictators that steel their wealth that pours into their nations by the hundreds of billions of dollars. The same also say it's too costly or lets just do what we can to get along so we can do business and keep the oil flowing as cheaply as we can. No, not everybody wants to keep the third world nations impoverished and under the thumbs of dictators, just some. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:40 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they are NOT is apathetic. Any culture which invented the croissant, cappucino, and Freedom Fries has my vote...even if they can't speak American or even French. :) If a president of France had tried to fuck with the French people basic rights one tenth as greviously as Bush has fucked with Americans' basic rights, the entire population of France would have been out on the streets in protest. The country would have shut down and would not have moved again until the government rescinded its actions. Presumably they never would have elected an illiterate moron to begin with...let alone a whole group of them. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:57 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. OTOH, Barry, as intelligent and thoughtful as most Arabs undoubtedly are, they *have* allowed a small, corrupt cadre of uncaring individuals with little or no conscience (with, admittedly, the aid and support of just-as-corrupt US leaders) to drain the huge oil wealth and resources for decades for palaces, harems, etc for those select few, when it should have gone towards making life better for everyone. It would be interesting to speculate whether or not these corrupt regimes would still be n power w/o US support--my guess is, many would. Apathy is not restricted to our shores. I agree that the reason the Arab countries are the way that they are (corruption and all, imbalance of rich and poor and all) is because the people of those countries allow it to take place. However, it's a little different there than it is in America. In America I think you can safely use the word apathy because you're talk- ing about a people who grew up having been told that *they* could change things any time they wanted, through the voting process. This is not true in the Arab world. These people grew up in a culture in which the idea of unseating a reigning monarch or tranferring power to the people is unthink- able. Oh, come on. Many of these reigning monarchs, like in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, have only been there for a few decades, put in place to keep the oil flowing. Most of the the people there are very aware of that, I would guess. There is no model for it; it has never happened. Maybe that's because most of these countries weren't countries at all until the early 20th century--they were part of various empires--the Holy Roman, Ottoman, etc. It's totally different now, and it's foolish to think they can't tell the difference. It's like trying to get a medieval serf to think of the idea of challening his feudal lord. It takes *reallY* extraordinary events (like starvation) before a people raised in a feudal mindset can even conceive of challeng- ing the feudal structure. They've been all but starving there for decades, and yet nothing's happened. The rulers toss them just enough scraps to keep them from mass starvation, but that's about it. So I don't think apathy is the right word to describe the acceptance of the status quo we see in many Arab countries. It's more that many of the people really don't know that there is an alternative quo. I'll give them a lot more credit for awareness than you do. My guess is most know the US would crush any overt attempt at removal, hence the suicide bombers and other methods the US *can't* crush. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 7:59:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly.Well, no, not "Americans as a whole."More than 51 million Americans voted *against*George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million votedagainst him in 2004. Yet those same 51 million and 59 million would have been led by those that would never have committed to liberating Afghanistan because "no nation has ever conquered the Afghans and we would fall into the same trap that the Russians fell into". "It would be another Vietnam for America". And Saddam would still be in power with more oil revenues than ever before, most likely without sanctions because the ones he had were being undermined by all those powers that wanted Saddam's oil. He would be in a paranoid state with his neighbor developing nukes and feel justified in restarting his own WMD programs again and he would be doing exactly what all those Arab leaders do to their own people.He would have beenraping , killing and impoverishing them as he had been doing. Those same leaders, American,would have been happy to maintain the status quo for "peace" sake and maintain cheap oil supplies and take the risks of leaving leaders like Saddam in power. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 9:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: At least in the major cities, many if not most of the people you speak to *can* understand and speak English. It's just that unless their income is completely dependent on tips -- and sometimes even when it is -- they WON'T converse with you in English until you first prove your worthiness as a human being. You do this by attempting to speak French, and thus by embarrassing yourself thoroughly in public. Once you've done this and the other French people in the shop or bar or restaurant have had the opportunity to snicker silently at your terrible accent and grammar, the French are more than willing to suddenly rediscover their previously-lapsed language skills and speak English with you. It's a pecking order thang. :-) Actually, I've found that most people appreciate this. Nobody expects fluency from a tourist, but if you visit another country, and attempt to speak even a few phrases, even if you have to look them up in a phrase-book right as you're speaking them, people seem to treat you differently, as someone who is making an effort, even a small one, to understand a part of their culture. I've never interpreted the laughter to be derisive. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 10:19 AM, shempmcgurk wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. OTOH, Barry, as intelligent and thoughtful as most Arabs undoubtedly are, they *have* allowed a small, corrupt cadre of uncaring individuals with little or no conscience (with, admittedly, the aid and support of just-as-corrupt US leaders) just as corrupt US leaders? And who would those be, Sunshine? Pretty much all the ones you admire, Shemp. And why? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 12:05 PM, new.morning wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the US in substantive and sustained ways, I would give your arguments more credence and support. They don't, in fact institutions and practices like that do everything in their power to suppress minority rights and voices, something which Shemp supports wholeheartedly, since he is not directly affected. He uses those and other such arguments as diversionary tactics. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 11:59:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a SaddamWho has said that? Can you give us *just one* name and quote? Strangely, I have a Kuwaiti friend who has said exactly this. Her family and friends went through hell when Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990 (she was here in America through it all), and the Americans saved them. Yet she was dead-set against invading and toppling Saddam in 2003. She is incredibly anti-Bush. It seems I heard a democratic Senator or congressman who said Iraqis were better off under Saddam just recently. Was it Jay Rockafeller? I have also hear numerous people some on this list have said the middle eastern countries aren't ready for democracy. Easy1 was one of them. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:41:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a SaddamWho has said that? Can you give us *just one* nameand quote? Yes , A democratic Senator ot Congressman just recently said that Iraq was better off under Saddam. I think it was Jay Rockafeller. I'm pretty darned sure Offworld and Easy1would agree. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:40:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yet those same 51 million and 59 million would have been led by those that would never have committed to liberating Afghanistan because "no nation has ever conquered the Afghans and we would fall into the same trap that the Russians fell into".Sorry, but imaginary scenarios about what Goreor Kerry would have done do not an argument make.As for our having "liberated" Afghanistan, youdon't read the news much, I gather. No those were common liberal arguments why we should not invade Afghanistan.Kind of like the 50,000 body bags for US soldiers to take Baghdad caused by gasand chemical attacks.I never heard any conservative arguments why we should not invade Afghanistan.Yes Afghanistan is liberated and has a democratically elected government. Are things perfect and peaceful? No.But definitely better off now than under the Taliban. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:13:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:41:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]com writes: Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a SaddamWho has said that? Can you give us *just one* nameand quote? Yes , A democratic Senator ot Congressman just recently said that Iraq was better off under Saddam. I think it was Jay Rockafeller. I'm pretty darned sure Offworld and Easy1would agree. By the way Judy, Google "better off under Saddam", you might be surprised. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
