OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea pretty 
much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may remember 
me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought it was just 
the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since the first 
weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.- nothing.  
We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)-- no difference really.  
And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of it- I used a whole can up 
of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah (added to his food)- it seemed 
to make no difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I stopped using it.  I've 
been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night lately- again, no 
difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so TIRED of answering 
those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time up to bat-- I'm not 
an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption agency people (those that have to 
approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me every friggin week about diet 
changes (um, none!) and the vet's office asking the same.  If anyone asks this 
on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going to say: Yeah, I'm trying this new thing 
were I feed Yoda something different for every meal...and tons of table scraps! 
 Why?  Do you think that could be it?!  
 
What else?  Oh, I took him back to the vet this Monday so they had the Yoda 
butt to really test for giardia- which I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is mingled 
with other fosters and personal cats and they would all have it by now and they 
don't, but just in case...They did another fecal-- nothing.  And I know he's 
healthy-- he looks like a little greyhound he's so healthy- he's all muscle and 
lean and just doing wonderful.  He never feels bad, but he'll go in the litter 
box and I will hear these horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds (sorry!) and then 
he just comes out like nothing happened!  But it smells horrible and sometimes 
he can't help but getting it on him and we're all just really tired of it!  The 
Vet said he looked great- which I already knew- and his hydration was great, 
his temp was fine, etc.  But I'm not crazy!  He's having this diarrhea!  He had 
a whole puddle of it last night in the litter box!  Sometimes it more cow 
pie-like, so that is why I say it comes and goes.  It's obviously not 
sustained diarrhea or else he would have hydration issues, which he doesn't.  
But I really want to solve this problem and I feel like I'm at a loss.  Yoda 
also seems to pass gas a lot- especially when he is nervous- like when we go to 
the cat adoption day-- he kind of smells and it's not his fur b/c I kitty wet 
wipe him before each adoption day- it's him sitting there nervously passing gas 
like he has IBS or something?  
 
I've been feeding Yoda kitten food- the Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken flavor that 
is for adult cats and kittens (whatever the H that means?) in the day.  In 
the evening, he gets half a can of the small can of Wellness kitten with 
Brewer's Yeast and Lysine added.  The vet said that kitten food can be richer 
and to try switching him to adult cat food- maybe all dry b/c he thinks the 
wet, with the extra moisture can contribute to diarrhea.  He recommended Purina 
(no, I'm not kidding-- my mom and I would have laughed, but we're tired of the 
runny poo, so it's not as funny as it should be), so I kind of think this vet's 
a quack at this point (for this an other reasons) and with all the premium 
brands on the market, why in the world would I feed him Purina?  (plus that 
means I'd have to switch over two other cats who eat with Yoda- one who is 
underweight that I am rehabbing and needs the best of the best brands of food). 
 Has anyone heard anything like this?  Has anyone had any problems with the 
newer premium foods with their cats?  I just wonder if Yoda has a 
gastrointestinal problem like IBS, UC or even Crohns or something-- something 
that isn't life threatening, but still a problem that can be managed by diet.  
I just wonder if the newer premium foods- with the emphasis being on the high 
protein content- maybe that is harder to digest for some cats?  I switched him 
on Monday to adult, regular wellness wet at night and he's now only getting 1/4 
of a can.  I haven't changed the dry food yet b/c I haven't decided what to do 
about that?  We're status quo with the runny poo.  I just don't know what to 
do/try and I'm so frustrated!   
 
Someone help!
Caroline 
_
The best games are on Xbox 360.  Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 
Console.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/

OT: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

My other issue is that is took in 3 female barn kittens last Sat.  We are 
estimating they are about 8 wks (just got spayed on Mon and all weigh almost 3 
lbs).  They were born in a barn in Indiana- mom was dropped off on this man's 
farm and had her kittens in the barn.  I don't know too many details, but after 
they were born, they started coming out of the barn a little so they were 
noticed by the farmer and his daughter.  They were not taken into the house as 
far as I know they stayed in the barn until they were caught and brought to me. 
 So my contact at the adoption agency obviously wanted to get them fix and out 
of the bitter bitter cold and wants to see if they can be socialized enough to 
be adopted out.  If not, they will have to re-released to the barn.  She 
doesn't have the time/resources to take on this project right now and she was 
given my name and number as the newest kitten rehabber on the block I guess.  
But I'm a rehabber of sick kittens- that's my forte!  And these babies are the 
healthiest lil piggies I've seen in a loong time (aw the irony).  (By the 
by, 5 of the 7 kittens that I have nursed through illnesses and fostered since 
Sept. have been adopted!  The remaining ones are Yoda- who shows badly b/c he 
thinks I'm his mommy and he has no intention of going anywhere...and the little 
booger is growing on me daily anyway; and Possum (aka Possee- my little 
struggling underweight darling who's finally growing and moving around now that 
we've gone through a whole thing of Nutrical!  He's not caught up to Yoda yet, 
even tho they are the same age, but there's been improvement.  He isn't 
show-ready yet so I haven't even tried to adopt him yet.).  
 
Anyway, I don't know what I am doing with these barn kittens!  Other than just 
generally forcing myself on them, I am kind of at a loss.  They're not really 
wild like feral cats or anything, they just would prefer it if you didn't touch 
them.  They kind of go into this panic mode when I do pick them up by the 
scruff where they will just curl up their body like a ball and they just kind 
of go to their happy place-- like lapse into a trance and don't engage.  So 
people who don't truly know cats think they are darling little docile things 
you can just hold forever, but it's not so.  I know if you put them on the 
ground, they would be off and under something and you'd never find them again.  
It's like they go into survival mode when you hold them, so people think they 
are fun to hold, but really, these little things are dying on the inside while 
you are doing it!  They never purr when I scratch them or handle them.  They 
will hiss sometimes when they first see me or I reach for them, but it's really 
baby hissing and I totally ignore it.  Of course, they are scared of sounds and 
some toys I originally gave them, but we are making headway now b/c they love 
the cat teasers with feathers, so I can get them to engage, but only for the 
purpose of playing.  
 
Other than forced holding of them, what can I do to work on getting them to 
engage with people- and even like them?  I hold them together as a group all 
wrapped up in a towel- I thought that would lessen the trauma by them all 
having each other. Plus, the farmer's daughter (hee hee!) favored only one of 
them and held only that one kitten- so it's more socialized and easier to hold 
than the other two.  It's actually really sad to see the effect that that 
favoritism had on these babies!  I just want to be doing all that I can b/c if 
they can't be socialized, they will have to be released and I will feel like 
it's partly my fault-- I feel like I can't fail here.   It would be especially 
sad b/c these little things are cute cute!  They have those big round apple 
heads and pudgy faces and huge round eyes and they have medium fur that is 
really fluffy and poufy- very distinctive looking and I know if they didn't 
have people issues right now, they would literally fly off the shelves at 
adoption day!  They look little bear cubs basically...insanely cute!
 
Suggestions very welcome at this point!
thanks,
Caroline  
_
The best games are on Xbox 360.  Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 
Console.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/

Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Susan Hoffman
Consider tritrichomonas foetus, which is similar to giardia but requires 
treatment with ronidazole.  (Info at 
http://www.bengalcatclub.com/downloads/HealthDIARRHEA1-06.pdf or via google.)
   
  A lot of times, fecal tests show nothing even when something is definitely 
there.
   
  And a lot of times (thankfully) not all cats in a population are equally 
susceptible, at least not all at the same time.  (Thankfully because, based 
upon my experience with tritrichomonas more than a year ago, if I had a lot of 
cats with the same issue all at once I would have gone stark raving insane.)

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten 
named Yoda that has had diarrhea pretty much off and on ever since I've had him 
(Labor Day).  Some of you may remember me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back 
then (at first I thought it was just the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't 
been on an antibiotic since the first weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet 
ran a fecal back in Oct.- nothing.  We treated with metro...zole (can't 
remember the name)-- no difference really.  And I have treated him with 
probiotics just for H of it- I used a whole can up of the Eagle Pack Holistic 
Remedy for Diarreah (added to his food)- it seemed to make no difference with 
Yoda, so when it ran out, I stopped using it.  I've been adding benebac (sp?) 
to his wet food at night lately- again, no difference.  Don't ask about food 
and diet changes-- I'm so TIRED of answering those friggin
 questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time up to bat-- I'm not an idiot.  
I'm tired of the adoption agency people (those that have to approve Yoda 
going to the vet) asking me every friggin week about diet changes (um, none!) 
and the vet's office asking the same.  If anyone asks this on Sat. at Cat 
Adoption Day, I'm going to say: Yeah, I'm trying this new thing were I feed 
Yoda something different for every meal...and tons of table scraps!  Why?  Do 
you think that could be it?!  
 
What else?  Oh, I took him back to the vet this Monday so they had the Yoda 
butt to really test for giardia- which I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is mingled 
with other fosters and personal cats and they would all have it by now and they 
don't, but just in case...They did another fecal-- nothing.  And I know he's 
healthy-- he looks like a little greyhound he's so healthy- he's all muscle and 
lean and just doing wonderful.  He never feels bad, but he'll go in the litter 
box and I will hear these horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds (sorry!) and then 
he just comes out like nothing happened!  But it smells horrible and sometimes 
he can't help but getting it on him and we're all just really tired of it!  The 
Vet said he looked great- which I already knew- and his hydration was great, 
his temp was fine, etc.  But I'm not crazy!  He's having this diarrhea!  He had 
a whole puddle of it last night in the litter box!  Sometimes it more cow 
pie-like, so that is why I say it comes and
 goes.  It's obviously not sustained diarrhea or else he would have hydration 
issues, which he doesn't.  But I really want to solve this problem and I feel 
like I'm at a loss.  Yoda also seems to pass gas a lot- especially when he is 
nervous- like when we go to the cat adoption day-- he kind of smells and it's 
not his fur b/c I kitty wet wipe him before each adoption day- it's him sitting 
there nervously passing gas like he has IBS or something?  
 
I've been feeding Yoda kitten food- the Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken flavor that 
is for adult cats and kittens (whatever the H that means?) in the day.  In 
the evening, he gets half a can of the small can of Wellness kitten with 
Brewer's Yeast and Lysine added.  The vet said that kitten food can be richer 
and to try switching him to adult cat food- maybe all dry b/c he thinks the 
wet, with the extra moisture can contribute to diarrhea.  He recommended Purina 
(no, I'm not kidding-- my mom and I would have laughed, but we're tired of the 
runny poo, so it's not as funny as it should be), so I kind of think this vet's 
a quack at this point (for this an other reasons) and with all the premium 
brands on the market, why in the world would I feed him Purina?  (plus that 
means I'd have to switch over two other cats who eat with Yoda- one who is 
underweight that I am rehabbing and needs the best of the best brands of food). 
 Has anyone heard anything like this?  Has anyone had any
 problems with the newer premium foods with their cats?  I just wonder if Yoda 
has a gastrointestinal problem like IBS, UC or even Crohns or something-- 
something that isn't life threatening, but still a problem that can be managed 
by diet.  I just wonder if the newer premium foods- with the emphasis being on 
the high protein content- maybe that is harder to digest for some cats?  I 
switched him on Monday to 

Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Kelley Saveika
You know - has he been treated for coccidia?  A lot of times my vet will
treat for coccidia even if nothing shows up on the fecal, because it is so
hard to detect.  Metronidazole doesn't cure coccidia...Albon or there is a
new drug that does it...

On Dec 19, 2007 2:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea
 pretty much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may
 remember me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought
 it was just the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic
 since the first weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back
 in Oct.- nothing.  We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)--
 no difference really.  And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of
 it- I used a whole can up of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah
 (added to his food)- it seemed to make no difference with Yoda, so when it
 ran out, I stopped using it.  I've been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food
 at night lately- again, no difference.  Don't ask about food and diet
 changes-- I'm so TIRED of answering those friggin questions-- I mean, this
 isn't my first time up to bat-- I'm not an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption
 agency people (those that have to approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me
 every friggin week about diet changes (um, none!) and the vet's office
 asking the same.  If anyone asks this on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going
 to say: Yeah, I'm trying this new thing were I feed Yoda something
 different for every meal...and tons of table scraps!  Why?  Do you think
 that could be it?!

 What else?  Oh, I took him back to the vet this Monday so they had the
 Yoda butt to really test for giardia- which I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is
 mingled with other fosters and personal cats and they would all have it by
 now and they don't, but just in case...They did another fecal--
 nothing.  And I know he's healthy-- he looks like a little greyhound he's so
 healthy- he's all muscle and lean and just doing wonderful.  He never feels
 bad, but he'll go in the litter box and I will hear these horrible diarrhea,
 squirty sounds (sorry!) and then he just comes out like nothing happened!
 But it smells horrible and sometimes he can't help but getting it on him and
 we're all just really tired of it!  The Vet said he looked great- which I
 already knew- and his hydration was great, his temp was fine, etc.  But I'm
 not crazy!  He's having this diarrhea!  He had a whole puddle of it last
 night in the litter box!  Sometimes it more cow pie-like, so that is why I
 say it comes and goes.  It's obviously not sustained diarrhea or else he
 would have hydration issues, which he doesn't.  But I really want to solve
 this problem and I feel like I'm at a loss.  *Yoda also seems to pass gas
 a lot*- especially when he is nervous- like when we go to the cat adoption
 day-- he kind of smells and it's not his fur b/c I kitty wet wipe him
 before each adoption day- it's him sitting there nervously passing gas like
 he has IBS or something?

 *I've been feeding Yoda kitten food- the Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken
 flavor that is for adult cats and kittens *(whatever the H that means?)
 in the day.  In the evening, he gets half a can of the small can of Wellness
 kitten with Brewer's Yeast and Lysine added.  *The vet said that kitten
 food can be richer and to try switching him to adult cat food- maybe all
 dry b/c he thinks the wet, with the extra moisture can contribute to
 diarrhea. * *He recommended Purina (no, I'm not kidding-- my mom and I
 would have laughed, but we're tired of the runny poo, so it's not as funny
 as it should be), *so* *I kind of think this vet's a quack at this point
 (for this an other reasons) and with all the premium brands on the market,
 why in the world would I feed him Purina?  (plus that means I'd have to
 switch over two other cats who eat with Yoda- one who is underweight that I
 am rehabbing and needs the best of the best brands of food).  *Has anyone
 heard anything like this?  Has anyone had any problems with the newer
 premium foods with their cats? * I just wonder if Yoda has a
 gastrointestinal problem like IBS, UC or even Crohns or something--
 something that isn't life threatening, but still a problem that can be
 managed by diet.  I just wonder if the newer premium foods- with the
 emphasis being on the high protein content- maybe that is harder to digest
 for some cats?  I switched him on Monday to adult, regular wellness wet at
 night and he's now only getting 1/4 of a can.  I haven't changed the dry
 food yet b/c I haven't decided what to do about that?  We're status quo with
 the runny poo.  I just don't know what to do/try and I'm so frustrated!

 Someone help!
 Caroline

 --
 The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox
 360 Console. Get it now! 

RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Chris
I think Flaglyl for Coccidia==

 

All these parasites are real tough to find---they require repeated fecal
test as unless the sample is from a particular spot of the feces that
happens to have one of the little buggers-it will go undedected..

 

Christiane Biagi

914-632-4672

Cell:  914-720-6888

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)

www.findkpets.org

 

Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:06 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

 

You know - has he been treated for coccidia?  A lot of times my vet will
treat for coccidia even if nothing shows up on the fecal, because it is so
hard to detect.  Metronidazole doesn't cure coccidia...Albon or there is a
new drug that does it... 

On Dec 19, 2007 2:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea pretty
much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may
remember me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought
it was just the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic
since the first weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back
in Oct.- nothing.  We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)--
no difference really.  And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of
it- I used a whole can up of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah
(added to his food)- it seemed to make no difference with Yoda, so when it
ran out, I stopped using it.  I've been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food
at night lately- again, no difference.  Don't ask about food and diet
changes-- I'm so TIRED of answering those friggin questions-- I mean, this
isn't my first time up to bat-- I'm not an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption
agency people (those that have to approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me
every friggin week about diet changes (um, none!) and the vet's office
asking the same.  If anyone asks this on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going
to say: Yeah, I'm trying this new thing were I feed Yoda something
different for every meal...and tons of table scraps!  Why?  Do you think
that could be it?!  
 
What else?  Oh, I took him back to the vet this Monday so they had the Yoda
butt to really test for giardia- which I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is mingled
with other fosters and personal cats and they would all have it by now and
they don't, but just in case...They did another fecal-- nothing.  And I know
he's healthy-- he looks like a little greyhound he's so healthy- he's all
muscle and lean and just doing wonderful.  He never feels bad, but he'll go
in the litter box and I will hear these horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds
(sorry!) and then he just comes out like nothing happened!  But it smells
horrible and sometimes he can't help but getting it on him and we're all
just really tired of it!  The Vet said he looked great- which I already
knew- and his hydration was great, his temp was fine, etc.  But I'm not
crazy!  He's having this diarrhea!  He had a whole puddle of it last night
in the litter box!  Sometimes it more cow pie-like, so that is why I say
it comes and goes.  It's obviously not sustained diarrhea or else he would
have hydration issues, which he doesn't.  But I really want to solve this
problem and I feel like I'm at a loss.  Yoda also seems to pass gas a lot-
especially when he is nervous- like when we go to the cat adoption day-- he
kind of smells and it's not his fur b/c I kitty wet wipe him before each
adoption day- it's him sitting there nervously passing gas like he has IBS
or something?  
 
I've been feeding Yoda kitten food- the Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken flavor
that is for adult cats and kittens (whatever the H that means?) in the
day.  In the evening, he gets half a can of the small can of Wellness kitten
with Brewer's Yeast and Lysine added.  The vet said that kitten food can be
richer and to try switching him to adult cat food- maybe all dry b/c he
thinks the wet, with the extra moisture can contribute to diarrhea.  He
recommended Purina (no, I'm not kidding-- my mom and I would have laughed,
but we're tired of the runny poo, so it's not as funny as it should be), so
I kind of think this vet's a quack at this point (for this an other reasons)
and with all the premium brands on the market, why in the world would I feed
him Purina?  (plus that means I'd have to switch over two other cats who eat
with Yoda- one who is underweight that I am rehabbing and needs the best of
the best brands of food).  Has anyone heard anything like this?  Has anyone
had any problems with the newer premium foods with their cats?  I just
wonder if Yoda has a gastrointestinal problem like IBS, UC or even Crohns or
something-- something that isn't life threatening, but still a problem that
can be managed by diet.  I just 

RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

No.  I didn't want to give him anything that he didn't need.  But I do have 
access to Albon.  
 
Incidentally, one of the other fosters told me on Sat.- when I was complaining 
about Yoda's on going saga- that some of her cats- or a litter that was 
recently adopted, not sure which, just tested positive for giardia, but they 
haven't treated yet b/c the vet said that the drug for it can cause seizures 
and that scared her to death.  This is another one of those this is just what 
I heard.  But she wanted to know if Yoda tested pos for giardia (which he 
didn't and I'm sure he doesn't have- it's a Yoda-specific problem and if he had 
had giardia, I'd have it by now!), b/c she wanted to know what I decided to do 
b/c the vet really freaked her out about treating the cats for giardia.  Anyone 
know about this?  
Caroline 


Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:06:14 -0600From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]: Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kittenYou know - has he been 
treated for coccidia?  A lot of times my vet will treat for coccidia even if 
nothing shows up on the fecal, because it is so hard to detect.  Metronidazole 
doesn't cure coccidia...Albon or there is a new drug that does it... 
On Dec 19, 2007 2:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea pretty 
much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may remember 
me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought it was just 
the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since the first 
weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.- nothing.  
We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)-- no difference really.  
And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of it- I used a whole can up 
of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah (added to his food)- it seemed 
to make no difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I stopped using it.  I've 
been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night lately- again, no 
difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so TIRED of answering 
those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time up to bat-- I'm not 
an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption agency people (those that have to 
approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me every friggin week about diet 
changes (um, none!) and the vet's office asking the same.  If anyone asks this 
on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going to say: Yeah, I'm trying this new thing 
were I feed Yoda something different for every meal...and tons of table scraps! 
 Why?  Do you think that could be it?!   What else?  Oh, I took him back to 
the vet this Monday so they had the Yoda butt to really test for giardia- which 
I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is mingled with other fosters and personal cats and 
they would all have it by now and they don't, but just in case...They did 
another fecal-- nothing.  And I know he's healthy-- he looks like a little 
greyhound he's so healthy- he's all muscle and lean and just doing wonderful.  
He never feels bad, but he'll go in the litter box and I will hear these 
horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds (sorry!) and then he just comes out like 
nothing happened!  But it smells horrible and sometimes he can't help but 
getting it on him and we're all just really tired of it!  The Vet said he 
looked great- which I already knew- and his hydration was great, his temp was 
fine, etc.  But I'm not crazy!  He's having this diarrhea!  He had a whole 
puddle of it last night in the litter box!  Sometimes it more cow pie-like, 
so that is why I say it comes and goes.  It's obviously not sustained diarrhea 
or else he would have hydration issues, which he doesn't.  But I really want to 
solve this problem and I feel like I'm at a loss.  Yoda also seems to pass gas 
a lot- especially when he is nervous- like when we go to the cat adoption day-- 
he kind of smells and it's not his fur b/c I kitty wet wipe him before each 
adoption day- it's him sitting there nervously passing gas like he has IBS or 
something?   I've been feeding Yoda kitten food- the Eagle Pack Holistic 
Chicken flavor that is for adult cats and kittens (whatever the H that 
means?) in the day.  In the evening, he gets half a can of the small can of 
Wellness kitten with Brewer's Yeast and Lysine added.  The vet said that kitten 
food can be richer and to try switching him to adult cat food- maybe all dry 
b/c he thinks the wet, with the extra moisture can contribute to diarrhea.  He 
recommended Purina (no, I'm not kidding-- my mom and I would have laughed, but 
we're tired of the runny poo, so it's not as funny as it should be), so I kind 
of think this vet's a quack at this point (for this an other reasons) and with 
all the premium brands on the market, why in the world would I feed him Purina? 
 (plus that means I'd have to switch over two other cats who eat with Yoda- one 
who is underweight that I am rehabbing and needs 

RE: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Chris
Fostered a little guy that somebody had dumped .. he was a real problem to
pick up-he'd hiss and curl up just as you described.  He'd also run a whole
lot faster than me and could get under things!   LOL  

 

I just made it a point to pick him up as much as I could.  He was around my
cats and I think that helped a whole lot cause once he started playing with
them and watching what they did, he figured it was OK.  I fed him with the
big guys and just being around, figuring out that the strange noises (TV,
vacumn, etc.) were OK, making his way to the food dish and the litter box
and the toys-all those things clicked and within a couple of weeks he was
ready to go.  He got adopted the 2nd day I brought him to the shelter (I
made a deal to bring him there during the day and pick him up at night).

 

My only suggestion is to do what you're doing-handle each of them as much as
possible, let them be kittens and find their food bowls and litter boxes,
and I bet it will work out.

 

Christiane Biagi

914-632-4672

Cell:  914-720-6888

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)

www.findkpets.org

 

Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:59 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: socializing barn kittens

 

My other issue is that is took in 3 female barn kittens last Sat.  We are
estimating they are about 8 wks (just got spayed on Mon and all weigh almost
3 lbs).  They were born in a barn in Indiana- mom was dropped off on this
man's farm and had her kittens in the barn.  I don't know too many details,
but after they were born, they started coming out of the barn a little so
they were noticed by the farmer and his daughter.  They were not taken into
the house as far as I know they stayed in the barn until they were caught
and brought to me.  So my contact at the adoption agency obviously wanted to
get them fix and out of the bitter bitter cold and wants to see if they can
be socialized enough to be adopted out.  If not, they will have to
re-released to the barn.  She doesn't have the time/resources to take on
this project right now and she was given my name and number as the newest
kitten rehabber on the block I guess.  But I'm a rehabber of sick kittens-
that's my forte!  And these babies are the healthiest lil piggies I've seen
in a loong time (aw the irony).  (By the by, 5 of the 7 kittens that I
have nursed through illnesses and fostered since Sept. have been adopted!
The remaining ones are Yoda- who shows badly b/c he thinks I'm his mommy and
he has no intention of going anywhere...and the little booger is growing on
me daily anyway; and Possum (aka Possee- my little struggling underweight
darling who's finally growing and moving around now that we've gone through
a whole thing of Nutrical!  He's not caught up to Yoda yet, even tho they
are the same age, but there's been improvement.  He isn't show-ready yet so
I haven't even tried to adopt him yet.).  
 
Anyway, I don't know what I am doing with these barn kittens!  Other than
just generally forcing myself on them, I am kind of at a loss.  They're
not really wild like feral cats or anything, they just would prefer it if
you didn't touch them.  They kind of go into this panic mode when I do pick
them up by the scruff where they will just curl up their body like a ball
and they just kind of go to their happy place-- like lapse into a trance and
don't engage.  So people who don't truly know cats think they are darling
little docile things you can just hold forever, but it's not so.  I know if
you put them on the ground, they would be off and under something and you'd
never find them again.  It's like they go into survival mode when you hold
them, so people think they are fun to hold, but really, these little things
are dying on the inside while you are doing it!  They never purr when I
scratch them or handle them.  They will hiss sometimes when they first see
me or I reach for them, but it's really baby hissing and I totally ignore
it.  Of course, they are scared of sounds and some toys I originally gave
them, but we are making headway now b/c they love the cat teasers with
feathers, so I can get them to engage, but only for the purpose of playing.

 
Other than forced holding of them, what can I do to work on getting them to
engage with people- and even like them?  I hold them together as a group all
wrapped up in a towel- I thought that would lessen the trauma by them all
having each other. Plus, the farmer's daughter (hee hee!) favored only one
of them and held only that one kitten- so it's more socialized and easier to
hold than the other two.  It's actually really sad to see the effect that
that favoritism had on these babies!  I just want to be doing all that I can
b/c if they can't be socialized, they will have to be released and I will
feel like it's partly my fault-- I feel 

Re: OT: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Susan Hoffman
You're actually off to a very good start.  
   
  - Keep holding and petting, whether they admit to liking it or not, and keep 
the feathery toys handy.  
  - Keep them in a very small space so you can easily get your hands on them.  
  - Add a little meat baby food to your repertoire, especially the chicken, 
turkey and ham flavors.  You want to follow up petting sessions with a really 
special treat.  I actually have them lick the baby food off my fingertips.  
Gets them even more accustomed to hands.
  - Also, whatever space you have them in, play music very softly and/or leave 
on a television set to a low volume.  Gets them more used to human voices.
  - Patience and persistence
  - Also, join the feral cat list at 
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feral_cats/ and read through the very 
extensive files section on taming.

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }My other issue is that is took in 3 
female barn kittens last Sat.  We are estimating they are about 8 wks (just got 
spayed on Mon and all weigh almost 3 lbs).  They were born in a barn in 
Indiana- mom was dropped off on this man's farm and had her kittens in the 
barn.  I don't know too many details, but after they were born, they started 
coming out of the barn a little so they were noticed by the farmer and his 
daughter.  They were not taken into the house as far as I know they stayed in 
the barn until they were caught and brought to me.  So my contact at the 
adoption agency obviously wanted to get them fix and out of the bitter bitter 
cold and wants to see if they can be socialized enough to be adopted out.  If 
not, they will have to re-released to the barn.  She doesn't have the 
time/resources to take on this project right now and she was given my name and
 number as the newest kitten rehabber on the block I guess.  But I'm a 
rehabber of sick kittens- that's my forte!  And these babies are the healthiest 
lil piggies I've seen in a loong time (aw the irony).  (By the by, 5 of the 
7 kittens that I have nursed through illnesses and fostered since Sept. have 
been adopted!  The remaining ones are Yoda- who shows badly b/c he thinks I'm 
his mommy and he has no intention of going anywhere...and the little booger is 
growing on me daily anyway; and Possum (aka Possee- my little struggling 
underweight darling who's finally growing and moving around now that we've gone 
through a whole thing of Nutrical!  He's not caught up to Yoda yet, even tho 
they are the same age, but there's been improvement.  He isn't show-ready yet 
so I haven't even tried to adopt him yet.).  
 
Anyway, I don't know what I am doing with these barn kittens!  Other than just 
generally forcing myself on them, I am kind of at a loss.  They're not really 
wild like feral cats or anything, they just would prefer it if you didn't touch 
them.  They kind of go into this panic mode when I do pick them up by the 
scruff where they will just curl up their body like a ball and they just kind 
of go to their happy place-- like lapse into a trance and don't engage.  So 
people who don't truly know cats think they are darling little docile things 
you can just hold forever, but it's not so.  I know if you put them on the 
ground, they would be off and under something and you'd never find them again.  
It's like they go into survival mode when you hold them, so people think they 
are fun to hold, but really, these little things are dying on the inside while 
you are doing it!  They never purr when I scratch them or handle them.  They 
will hiss sometimes when they first see me or I reach
 for them, but it's really baby hissing and I totally ignore it.  Of course, 
they are scared of sounds and some toys I originally gave them, but we are 
making headway now b/c they love the cat teasers with feathers, so I can get 
them to engage, but only for the purpose of playing.  
 
Other than forced holding of them, what can I do to work on getting them to 
engage with people- and even like them?  I hold them together as a group all 
wrapped up in a towel- I thought that would lessen the trauma by them all 
having each other. Plus, the farmer's daughter (hee hee!) favored only one of 
them and held only that one kitten- so it's more socialized and easier to hold 
than the other two.  It's actually really sad to see the effect that that 
favoritism had on these babies!  I just want to be doing all that I can b/c if 
they can't be socialized, they will have to be released and I will feel like 
it's partly my fault-- I feel like I can't fail here.   It would be especially 
sad b/c these little things are cute cute!  They have those big round apple 
heads and pudgy faces and huge round eyes and they have medium fur that is 
really fluffy and poufy- very distinctive looking and I know if they didn't 
have people issues right now, they would literally fly off the
 

RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Susan Hoffman
Metronidazole can in very rare instances cause convulsions.  Very rare though.  
Untreated giardia is far more dangerous.
   
  And, uh, Caroline, if you ever catch giardia from a foster kitty, we're going 
to have to discuss some grooming issues.  Transmission is a fecal to oral 
route.  So don't take playing mamma cat too literally and you should be OK.

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }No.  I didn't want to give him 
anything that he didn't need.  But I do have access to Albon.  
 
Incidentally, one of the other fosters told me on Sat.- when I was complaining 
about Yoda's on going saga- that some of her cats- or a litter that was 
recently adopted, not sure which, just tested positive for giardia, but they 
haven't treated yet b/c the vet said that the drug for it can cause seizures 
and that scared her to death.  This is another one of those this is just what 
I heard.  But she wanted to know if Yoda tested pos for giardia (which he 
didn't and I'm sure he doesn't have- it's a Yoda-specific problem and if he had 
had giardia, I'd have it by now!), b/c she wanted to know what I decided to do 
b/c the vet really freaked her out about treating the cats for giardia.  Anyone 
know about this?  
Caroline 



-
  Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:06:14 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

You know - has he been treated for coccidia?  A lot of times my vet will treat 
for coccidia even if nothing shows up on the fecal, because it is so hard to 
detect.  Metronidazole doesn't cure coccidia...Albon or there is a new drug 
that does it... 

  On Dec 19, 2007 2:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea 
pretty much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may 
remember me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought it 
was just the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since 
the first weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.- 
nothing.  We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)-- no 
difference really.  And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of it- I 
used a whole can up of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah (added to 
his food)- it seemed to make no difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I 
stopped using it.  I've been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night 
lately- again, no difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so 
TIRED of answering those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time 
up to bat-- I'm not an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption agency
 people (those that have to approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me every 
friggin week about diet changes (um, none!) and the vet's office asking the 
same.  If anyone asks this on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going to say: 
Yeah, I'm trying this new thing were I feed Yoda something different for every 
meal...and tons of table scraps!  Why?  Do you think that could be it?!  
 
What else?  Oh, I took him back to the vet this Monday so they had the Yoda 
butt to really test for giardia- which I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is mingled 
with other fosters and personal cats and they would all have it by now and they 
don't, but just in case...They did another fecal-- nothing.  And I know he's 
healthy-- he looks like a little greyhound he's so healthy- he's all muscle and 
lean and just doing wonderful.  He never feels bad, but he'll go in the litter 
box and I will hear these horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds (sorry!) and then 
he just comes out like nothing happened!  But it smells horrible and sometimes 
he can't help but getting it on him and we're all just really tired of it!  The 
Vet said he looked great- which I already knew- and his hydration was great, 
his temp was fine, etc.  But I'm not crazy!  He's having this diarrhea!  He had 
a whole puddle of it last night in the litter box!  Sometimes it more cow 
pie-like, so that is why I say it comes and
 goes.  It's obviously not sustained diarrhea or else he would have hydration 
issues, which he doesn't.  But I really want to solve this problem and I feel 
like I'm at a loss.  Yoda also seems to pass gas a lot- especially when he is 
nervous- like when we go to the cat adoption day-- he kind of smells and it's 
not his fur b/c I kitty wet wipe him before each adoption day- it's him sitting 
there nervously passing gas like he has IBS or something?  
 
I've been feeding Yoda kitten food- the Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken flavor that 
is for adult cats and kittens (whatever the H that means?) in the day.  In 
the evening, he gets half a can of the small can of Wellness kitten with 
Brewer's Yeast and Lysine added.  The vet said that kitten food can be richer 

Re: OT: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread MaryChristine
yeah, what susan just said. i will go and sit in the room with them,
too, with some absolutely irresistable toy and make an absolute fool out of
myself playing with it, ignoring them all the while. often the temptation to
play is just TOO great to resist i won't try to force contact on them
(unless it's a situation where they really are close to feral, but we need
to be able to tame them JUST enough in case of medical need, when one goes
for the welding gloves, and forced-fondling--specially around the ears or
base of tail, so they can bite and scratch and hiss all they want til it
clicks that, hey, this feels really GOOD). i let them play, and let THEM
make the first moves.

i will also take a good book in with me, and just become a piece of
furniture--understanding that, for some kitties who aren't born housecats,
that's all any human will really be.




On Dec 19, 2007 4:19 PM, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You're actually off to a very good start.

 - Keep holding and petting, whether they admit to liking it or not, and
 keep the feathery toys handy.
 - Keep them in a very small space so you can easily get your hands on
 them.
 - Add a little meat baby food to your repertoire, especially the chicken,
 turkey and ham flavors.  You want to follow up petting sessions with a
 really special treat.  I actually have them lick the baby food off my
 fingertips.  Gets them even more accustomed to hands.
 - Also, whatever space you have them in, play music very softly and/or
 leave on a television set to a low volume.  Gets them more used to human
 voices.
 - Patience and persistence
 - Also, join the feral cat list at
 http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feral_cats/ and read through the very
 extensive files section on taming.


 *Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:

 My other issue is that is took in 3 female barn kittens last Sat.  We are
 estimating they are about 8 wks (just got spayed on Mon and all weigh almost
 3 lbs).  They were born in a barn in Indiana- mom was dropped off on this
 man's farm and had her kittens in the barn.  I don't know too many details,
 but after they were born, they started coming out of the barn a little so
 they were noticed by the farmer and his daughter.  They were not taken into
 the house as far as I know they stayed in the barn until they were caught
 and brought to me.  So my contact at the adoption agency obviously wanted to
 get them fix and out of the bitter bitter cold and wants to see if they can
 be socialized enough to be adopted out.  If not, they will have to
 re-released to the barn.  She doesn't have the time/resources to take on
 this project right now and she was given my name and number as the newest
 kitten rehabber on the block I guess.  But I'm a rehabber of sick kittens-
 that's my forte!  And these babies are the healthiest lil piggies I've seen
 in a loong time (aw the irony).  (By the by, 5 of the 7 kittens that I
 have nursed through illnesses and fostered since Sept. have been adopted!
 The remaining ones are Yoda- who shows badly b/c he thinks I'm his mommy and
 he has no intention of going anywhere...and the little booger is growing on
 me daily anyway; and Possum (aka Possee- my little struggling underweight
 darling who's finally growing and moving around now that we've gone through
 a whole thing of Nutrical!  He's not caught up to Yoda yet, even tho they
 are the same age, but there's been improvement.  He isn't show-ready yet so
 I haven't even tried to adopt him yet.).

 Anyway, I don't know what I am doing with these barn kittens!  Other than
 just generally forcing myself on them, I am kind of at a loss.  They're
 not really wild like feral cats or anything, they just would prefer it if
 you didn't touch them.  They kind of go into this panic mode when I do pick
 them up by the scruff where they will just curl up their body like a ball
 and they just kind of go to their happy place-- like lapse into a trance and
 don't engage.  So people who don't truly know cats think they are darling
 little docile things you can just hold forever, but it's not so.  I know if
 you put them on the ground, they would be off and under something and you'd
 never find them again.  It's like they go into survival mode when you hold
 them, so people think they are fun to hold, but really, these little things
 are dying on the inside while you are doing it!  They never purr when I
 scratch them or handle them.  They will hiss sometimes when they first see
 me or I reach for them, but it's really baby hissing and I totally ignore
 it.  Of course, they are scared of sounds and some toys I originally gave
 them, but we are making headway now b/c they love the cat teasers with
 feathers, so I can get them to engage, but only for the purpose of playing.


 *Other than forced holding of them, what can I do to work on getting
 them to engage with people- and even like them?  *I hold them together as
 a group all wrapped up in a towel- 

RE: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

Thanks!  That makes me feel better!  I do leave the TV on their room all day to 
force them to get used to human voices.  As far as food bowls and litter box- 
no problem (except for the inevitable laying in the litter box!).  Nothing is 
going to stop these little pigs from eating...trust me.  Especially when I 
bring them their wet kitten food at night (wh/ I'm sure they've never had)- I 
sit in front of their condo and stare at them-- they HATE it, but it's so funny 
to watch the test of wills going through their heads-- watching me, thinking 
I'm going to grab them, thinking they really want to eat that food, etc.  EVERY 
TIME, those pigs opt for eating their food- licking the bowls clean, while I 
hover over top of them!  They use the box fine.
 
I haven't mixed them with my older cats yet- I plan to, because one of them, 
LeeRoy, really likes all cats and is a great cat ambassador.  But I didn't want 
to stress them out so much so soon after their surgery...so maybe in a few days 
we will try that.  Supervised of course.
 
caroline 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: socializing barn kittensDate: 
Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:16:55 -0500






Fostered a little guy that somebody had dumped .. he was a real problem to pick 
up—he’d hiss and curl up just as you described.  He’d also run a whole lot 
faster than me and could get under things!   LOL  
 
I just made it a point to pick him up as much as I could.  He was around my 
cats and I think that helped a whole lot cause once he started playing with 
them and watching what they did, he figured it was OK.  I fed him with the big 
guys and just being around, figuring out that the strange noises (TV, vacumn, 
etc.) were OK, making his way to the food dish and the litter box and the 
toys—all those things clicked and within a couple of weeks he was ready to go.  
He got adopted the 2nd day I brought him to the shelter (I made a deal to bring 
him there during the day and pick him up at night).
 
My only suggestion is to do what you’re doing—handle each of them as much as 
possible, let them be kittens and find their food bowls and litter boxes, and I 
bet it will work out…
 

Christiane Biagi
914-632-4672
Cell:  914-720-6888
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)
www.findkpets.org
 
Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
KaufmannSent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:59 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OT: 
socializing barn kittens
 
My other issue is that is took in 3 female barn kittens last Sat.  We are 
estimating they are about 8 wks (just got spayed on Mon and all weigh almost 3 
lbs).  They were born in a barn in Indiana- mom was dropped off on this man's 
farm and had her kittens in the barn.  I don't know too many details, but after 
they were born, they started coming out of the barn a little so they were 
noticed by the farmer and his daughter.  They were not taken into the house as 
far as I know they stayed in the barn until they were caught and brought to me. 
 So my contact at the adoption agency obviously wanted to get them fix and out 
of the bitter bitter cold and wants to see if they can be socialized enough to 
be adopted out.  If not, they will have to re-released to the barn.  She 
doesn't have the time/resources to take on this project right now and she was 
given my name and number as the newest kitten rehabber on the block I guess.  
But I'm a rehabber of sick kittens- that's my forte!  And these babies are the 
healthiest lil piggies I've seen in a loong time (aw the irony).  (By the 
by, 5 of the 7 kittens that I have nursed through illnesses and fostered since 
Sept. have been adopted!  The remaining ones are Yoda- who shows badly b/c he 
thinks I'm his mommy and he has no intention of going anywhere...and the little 
booger is growing on me daily anyway; and Possum (aka Possee- my little 
struggling underweight darling who's finally growing and moving around now that 
we've gone through a whole thing of Nutrical!  He's not caught up to Yoda yet, 
even tho they are the same age, but there's been improvement.  He isn't 
show-ready yet so I haven't even tried to adopt him yet.).   Anyway, I don't 
know what I am doing with these barn kittens!  Other than just generally 
forcing myself on them, I am kind of at a loss.  They're not really wild like 
feral cats or anything, they just would prefer it if you didn't touch them.  
They kind of go into this panic mode when I do pick them up by the scruff where 
they will just curl up their body like a ball and they just kind of go to their 
happy place-- like lapse into a trance and don't engage.  So people who don't 
truly know cats think they are darling little docile things you can just hold 
forever, but it's not so.  I know if you put them on the ground, they would be 
off and under something and you'd never find them again.  It's like they go 
into survival 

RE: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Susan Hoffman
You've found their Achilles heel -- their appetites!  Work it.  Meat baby food, 
a little roast chickenThey'll learn to appreciate people very quickly at 
that rate.

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  
padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }
Thanks!  That makes me feel better!  I do leave the TV on their room all day to 
force them to get used to human voices.  As far as food bowls and litter box- 
no problem (except for the inevitable laying in the litter box!).  Nothing is 
going to stop these little pigs from eating...trust me.  Especially when I 
bring them their wet kitten food at night (wh/ I'm sure they've never had)- I 
sit in front of their condo and stare at them-- they HATE it, but it's so funny 
to watch the test of wills going through their heads-- watching me, thinking 
I'm going to grab them, thinking they really want to eat that food, etc.  EVERY 
TIME, those pigs opt for eating their food- licking the bowls clean, while I 
hover over top of them!  They use the box fine.
 
I haven't mixed them with my older cats yet- I plan to, because one of them, 
LeeRoy, really likes all cats and is a great cat ambassador.  But I didn't want 
to stress them out so much so soon after their surgery...so maybe in a few days 
we will try that.  Supervised of course.
 
caroline 



-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:16:55 -0500

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.EC_MsoChpDefault  {font-size:10.0pt;}  @page Section1  {size:8.5in 11.0in;}  
.ExternalClass EC_div.Section1  {page:Section1;}  Fostered a little guy 
that somebody had dumped .. he was a real problem to pick up—he’d hiss and curl 
up just as you described.  He’d also run a whole lot faster than me
 and could get under things!   LOL  
   
  I just made it a point to pick him up as much as I could.  He was around my 
cats and I think that helped a whole lot cause once he started playing with 
them and watching what they did, he figured it was OK.  I fed him with the big 
guys and just being around, figuring out that the strange noises (TV, vacumn, 
etc.) were OK, making his way to the food dish and the litter box and the 
toys—all those things clicked and within a couple of weeks he was ready to go.  
He got adopted the 2nd day I brought him to the shelter (I made a deal to bring 
him there during the day and pick him up at night).
   
  My only suggestion is to do what you’re doing—handle each of them as much as 
possible, let them be kittens and find their food bowls and litter boxes, and I 
bet it will work out…
   
Christiane Biagi
  914-632-4672
  Cell:  914-720-6888
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)
  www.findkpets.org
   

  Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:59 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: socializing barn kittens


   
  My other issue is that is took in 3 female barn kittens last Sat.  We are 
estimating they are about 8 wks (just got spayed on Mon and all weigh almost 3 
lbs).  They were born in a barn in Indiana- mom was dropped off on this man's 
farm and had her kittens in the barn.  I don't know too many details, but after 
they were born, they started coming out of the barn a little so they were 
noticed by the farmer and his daughter.  They were not taken into the house as 
far as I know they stayed in the barn until they were caught and brought to me. 
 So my contact at the adoption agency obviously wanted to get them fix and out 
of the bitter bitter cold and wants to see if they can be socialized enough to 
be adopted out.  If not, they will have to re-released to the barn.  She 
doesn't have the time/resources to take on this project right now and she was 
given my name and number as the newest kitten rehabber on the block I guess.  
But I'm a rehabber of sick kittens- that's my forte! 
 And these babies are the healthiest lil piggies I've seen in a loong time 
(aw the irony).  (By the by, 5 of the 7 kittens that I have nursed through 
illnesses and fostered 

RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

Well, Yoda's favorite thing to do is run across my bed, romp on it and rummage 
in my pillow!  So sometimes there are poopy footprints left on my bed!  It's so 
gross- and I have a multiple junky covers I use as my top sheet to protect my 
actual bedsheets from getting the Yoda-prints...but still, it's gross and I'm 
tired of changing it every day after his little party on my bed!  He really 
trashed it one time and my mom was like, I would rather die than sleep in that 
bed!  And I'm a clean-freak/germaphobe-- that's the irony!
caroline


Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:25:06 -0800From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: OT: diarreah 
in 6 month old kittenTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Metronidazole can in very rare instances cause convulsions.  Very rare though.  
Untreated giardia is far more dangerous.
 
And, uh, Caroline, if you ever catch giardia from a foster kitty, we're going 
to have to discuss some grooming issues.  Transmission is a fecal to oral 
route.  So don't take playing mamma cat too literally and you should be 
OK.Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


No.  I didn't want to give him anything that he didn't need.  But I do have 
access to Albon.   Incidentally, one of the other fosters told me on Sat.- when 
I was complaining about Yoda's on going saga- that some of her cats- or a 
litter that was recently adopted, not sure which, just tested positive for 
giardia, but they haven't treated yet b/c the vet said that the drug for it can 
cause seizures and that scared her to death.  This is another one of those 
this is just what I heard.  But she wanted to know if Yoda tested pos for 
giardia (which he didn't and I'm sure he doesn't have- it's a Yoda-specific 
problem and if he had had giardia, I'd have it by now!), b/c she wanted to know 
what I decided to do b/c the vet really freaked her out about treating the cats 
for giardia.  Anyone know about this?  Caroline 


Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:06:14 -0600From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]: Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kittenYou know - has he been 
treated for coccidia?  A lot of times my vet will treat for coccidia even if 
nothing shows up on the fecal, because it is so hard to detect.  Metronidazole 
doesn't cure coccidia...Albon or there is a new drug that does it... 
On Dec 19, 2007 2:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea pretty 
much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may remember 
me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought it was just 
the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since the first 
weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.- nothing.  
We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)-- no difference really.  
And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of it- I used a whole can up 
of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah (added to his food)- it seemed 
to make no difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I stopped using it.  I've 
been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night lately- again, no 
difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so TIRED of answering 
those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time up to bat-- I'm not 
an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption agency people (those that have to 
approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me every friggin week about diet 
changes (um, none!) and the vet's office asking the same.  If anyone asks this 
on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going to say: Yeah, I'm trying this new thing 
were I feed Yoda something different for every meal...and tons of table scraps! 
 Why?  Do you think that could be it?!   What else?  Oh, I took him back to 
the vet this Monday so they had the Yoda butt to really test for giardia- which 
I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is mingled with other fosters and personal cats and 
they would all have it by now and they don't, but just in case...They did 
another fecal-- nothing.  And I know he's healthy-- he looks like a little 
greyhound he's so healthy- he's all muscle and lean and just doing wonderful.  
He never feels bad, but he'll go in the litter box and I will hear these 
horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds (sorry!) and then he just comes out like 
nothing happened!  But it smells horrible and sometimes he can't help but 
getting it on him and we're all just really tired of it!  The Vet said he 
looked great- which I already knew- and his hydration was great, his temp was 
fine, etc.  But I'm not crazy!  He's having this diarrhea!  He had a whole 
puddle of it last night in the litter box!  Sometimes it more cow pie-like, 
so that is why I say it comes and goes.  It's obviously not sustained diarrhea 
or else he would have hydration issues, which he doesn't.  But I really want to 
solve this problem and I feel like I'm at a loss.  Yoda also seems to pass gas 
a lot- especially when he is nervous- like when we go to the cat adoption 

RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Susan Hoffman
Yep, treat that boy!  I'd go with ronidazole rather than flagyl/metronidazole.  
Ronidazole will treat giardia and tritrich.
   
  What dosage of metronidazole was he previously on and for how long?  Don't 
count on fecal tests to be accurate.  They really aren't especially in the 
early stages.
   
  A cat with chronic diarrhea needs to be treated.  Otherwise it can damage the 
anal sphincter and the cat has a lifelong incontinence issue.
   
  

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }Well, Yoda's favorite thing to do is 
run across my bed, romp on it and rummage in my pillow!  So sometimes there are 
poopy footprints left on my bed!  It's so gross- and I have a multiple junky 
covers I use as my top sheet to protect my actual bedsheets from getting the 
Yoda-prints...but still, it's gross and I'm tired of changing it every day 
after his little party on my bed!  He really trashed it one time and my mom was 
like, I would rather die than sleep in that bed!  And I'm a 
clean-freak/germaphobe-- that's the irony!
caroline



-
  Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:25:06 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

  Metronidazole can in very rare instances cause convulsions.  Very rare 
though.  Untreated giardia is far more dangerous.
   
  And, uh, Caroline, if you ever catch giardia from a foster kitty, we're going 
to have to discuss some grooming issues.  Transmission is a fecal to oral 
route.  So don't take playing mamma cat too literally and you should be OK.

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P  {padding:0px;}  .ExternalClass 
EC_body.hmmessage  {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}No.  I didn't want 
to give him anything that he didn't need.  But I do have access to Albon.  
 
Incidentally, one of the other fosters told me on Sat.- when I was complaining 
about Yoda's on going saga- that some of her cats- or a litter that was 
recently adopted, not sure which, just tested positive for giardia, but they 
haven't treated yet b/c the vet said that the drug for it can cause seizures 
and that scared her to death.  This is another one of those this is just what 
I heard.  But she wanted to know if Yoda tested pos for giardia (which he 
didn't and I'm sure he doesn't have- it's a Yoda-specific problem and if he had 
had giardia, I'd have it by now!), b/c she wanted to know what I decided to do 
b/c the vet really freaked her out about treating the cats for giardia.  Anyone 
know about this?  
Caroline 



-
  Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:06:14 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

You know - has he been treated for coccidia?  A lot of times my vet will treat 
for coccidia even if nothing shows up on the fecal, because it is so hard to 
detect.  Metronidazole doesn't cure coccidia...Albon or there is a new drug 
that does it... 

  On Dec 19, 2007 2:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea 
pretty much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may 
remember me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought it 
was just the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since 
the first weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.- 
nothing.  We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)-- no 
difference really.  And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of it- I 
used a whole can up of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah (added to 
his food)- it seemed to make no difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I 
stopped using it.  I've been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night 
lately- again, no difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so 
TIRED of answering those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time 
up to bat-- I'm not an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption agency
 people (those that have to approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me every 
friggin week about diet changes (um, none!) and the vet's office asking the 
same.  If anyone asks this on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going to say: 
Yeah, I'm trying this new thing were I feed Yoda something different for every 
meal...and tons of table scraps!  Why?  Do you think that could be it?!  
 
What else?  Oh, I took him back to the vet this Monday so they had the Yoda 
butt to really test for giardia- which I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is mingled 
with other fosters and personal cats and they would all have it by now and they 
don't, but just in case...They did another fecal-- nothing.  And I know he's 
healthy-- he looks like a little greyhound he's so healthy- he's all muscle and 
lean and 

Re: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Marylyn
Try Feliway and CatNap (Dr. Maier has some) to calm them.  Use the spray, not 
the plug ins.  Feed them in very small amounts numerous times a day and let 
them see you and associate you with the food.  

Watch out for those baby teeth.  Don't be afraid but know that they know how to 
protect themselves and, like any cornered critter, will fight.

Get a consult with Dr. Maier.she knows alot about this subject and, as 
you know, is great.  

 






 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:59 PM
  Subject: OT: socializing barn kittens


  My other issue is that is took in 3 female barn kittens last Sat.  We are 
estimating they are about 8 wks (just got spayed on Mon and all weigh almost 3 
lbs).  They were born in a barn in Indiana- mom was dropped off on this man's 
farm and had her kittens in the barn.  I don't know too many details, but after 
they were born, they started coming out of the barn a little so they were 
noticed by the farmer and his daughter.  They were not taken into the house as 
far as I know they stayed in the barn until they were caught and brought to me. 
 So my contact at the adoption agency obviously wanted to get them fix and out 
of the bitter bitter cold and wants to see if they can be socialized enough to 
be adopted out.  If not, they will have to re-released to the barn.  She 
doesn't have the time/resources to take on this project right now and she was 
given my name and number as the newest kitten rehabber on the block I guess.  
But I'm a rehabber of sick kittens- that's my forte!  And these babies are the 
healthiest lil piggies I've seen in a loong time (aw the irony).  (By the 
by, 5 of the 7 kittens that I have nursed through illnesses and fostered since 
Sept. have been adopted!  The remaining ones are Yoda- who shows badly b/c he 
thinks I'm his mommy and he has no intention of going anywhere...and the little 
booger is growing on me daily anyway; and Possum (aka Possee- my little 
struggling underweight darling who's finally growing and moving around now that 
we've gone through a whole thing of Nutrical!  He's not caught up to Yoda yet, 
even tho they are the same age, but there's been improvement.  He isn't 
show-ready yet so I haven't even tried to adopt him yet.).  
   
  Anyway, I don't know what I am doing with these barn kittens!  Other than 
just generally forcing myself on them, I am kind of at a loss.  They're not 
really wild like feral cats or anything, they just would prefer it if you 
didn't touch them.  They kind of go into this panic mode when I do pick them up 
by the scruff where they will just curl up their body like a ball and they just 
kind of go to their happy place-- like lapse into a trance and don't engage.  
So people who don't truly know cats think they are darling little docile things 
you can just hold forever, but it's not so.  I know if you put them on the 
ground, they would be off and under something and you'd never find them again.  
It's like they go into survival mode when you hold them, so people think they 
are fun to hold, but really, these little things are dying on the inside while 
you are doing it!  They never purr when I scratch them or handle them.  They 
will hiss sometimes when they first see me or I reach for them, but it's really 
baby hissing and I totally ignore it.  Of course, they are scared of sounds and 
some toys I originally gave them, but we are making headway now b/c they love 
the cat teasers with feathers, so I can get them to engage, but only for the 
purpose of playing.  
   
  Other than forced holding of them, what can I do to work on getting them to 
engage with people- and even like them?  I hold them together as a group all 
wrapped up in a towel- I thought that would lessen the trauma by them all 
having each other. Plus, the farmer's daughter (hee hee!) favored only one of 
them and held only that one kitten- so it's more socialized and easier to hold 
than the other two.  It's actually really sad to see the effect that that 
favoritism had on these babies!  I just want to be doing all that I can b/c if 
they can't be socialized, they will have to be released and I will feel like 
it's partly my fault-- I feel like I can't fail here.   It would be especially 
sad b/c these little things are cute cute!  They have those big round apple 
heads and pudgy faces and huge round eyes and they have medium fur that is 
really fluffy and poufy- very distinctive looking and I know if they didn't 
have people issues 

Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Jane Lyons
Caroline I've been battling diarrhea for months. It began as giardia  
and we used everything beginning with
Panacur on down and nothing has worked. We used a remedy, Thullium  
met which worked for several months

but it is back again and we in the same state that you are.

Nina has a cat (Gypsy) who eats a home prepared 'turkey mush' recipe  
that cured her chronic diarrhea which

was the result of IBD. You might check with her.

 I use both a homeopath and an allopathic vet and neither of them  
have been able to get rid of it. Her stools are negative
too, and her diet (Whole Foods/PetGuard) is unchanged. She is Felv,  
and one of the vets indicated that it could be
a result of FeLV, which I do not believe to be true. I'm in the  
process of consulting another vet. If I learn anything
new, I'll let you know. Please keep us posted on Yoda. We are  
desperate. It is really awful.

Jane






On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:

I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had  
diarrhea pretty much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor  
Day).  Some of you may remember me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea  
back then (at first I thought it was just the antibiotic for his  
URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since the first weeks of  
Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.-  
nothing.  We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)--  
no difference really.  And I have treated him with probiotics just  
for H of it- I used a whole can up of the Eagle Pack Holistic  
Remedy for Diarreah (added to his food)- it seemed to make no  
difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I stopped using it.  I've  
been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night lately- again,  
no difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so  
TIRED of answering those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my  
first time up to bat-- I'm not an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption  
agency people (those that have to approve Yoda going to the vet)  
asking me every friggin week about diet changes (um, none!) and the  
vet's office asking the same.  If anyone asks this on Sat. at Cat  
Adoption Day, I'm going to say: Yeah, I'm trying this new thing  
were I feed Yoda something different for every meal...and tons of  
table scraps!  Why?  Do you think that could be it?!


What else?  Oh, I took him back to the vet this Monday so they had  
the Yoda butt to really test for giardia- which I knew it wasn't b/ 
c Yoda is mingled with other fosters and personal cats and they  
would all have it by now and they don't, but just in case...They  
did another fecal-- nothing.  And I know he's healthy-- he looks  
like a little greyhound he's so healthy- he's all muscle and lean  
and just doing wonderful.  He never feels bad, but he'll go in the  
litter box and I will hear these horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds  
(sorry!) and then he just comes out like nothing happened!  But it  
smells horrible and sometimes he can't help but getting it on him  
and we're all just really tired of it!  The Vet said he looked  
great- which I already knew- and his hydration was great, his  
temp was fine, etc.  But I'm not crazy!  He's having this  
diarrhea!  He had a whole puddle of it last night in the litter  
box!  Sometimes it more cow pie-like, so that is why I say it  
comes and goes.  It's obviously not sustained diarrhea or else he  
would have hydration issues, which he doesn't.  But I really want  
to solve this problem and I feel like I'm at a loss.  Yoda also  
seems to pass gas a lot- especially when he is nervous- like when  
we go to the cat adoption day-- he kind of smells and it's not  
his fur b/c I kitty wet wipe him before each adoption day- it's him  
sitting there nervously passing gas like he has IBS or something?


I've been feeding Yoda kitten food- the Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken  
flavor that is for adult cats and kittens (whatever the H that  
means?) in the day.  In the evening, he gets half a can of the  
small can of Wellness kitten with Brewer's Yeast and Lysine added.   
The vet said that kitten food can be richer and to try switching  
him to adult cat food- maybe all dry b/c he thinks the wet, with  
the extra moisture can contribute to diarrhea. He recommended  
Purina (no, I'm not kidding-- my mom and I would have laughed, but  
we're tired of the runny poo, so it's not as funny as it should  
be), so I kind of think this vet's a quack at this point (for this  
an other reasons) and with all the premium brands on the market,  
why in the world would I feed him Purina?  (plus that means I'd  
have to switch over two other cats who eat with Yoda- one who is  
underweight that I am rehabbing and needs the best of the best  
brands of food).  Has anyone heard anything like this?  Has anyone  
had any problems with the newer premium foods with their cats?  I  
just wonder if Yoda has a gastrointestinal problem like IBS, UC or  
even Crohns or 

RE: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Chris
The little guy I fostered first latched on to my youngest (and smallest and
most playful cat)  He followed him around continuously and played non stop.
Then he latched on to my Tucson who just didn't know what to make of him
taking over her favorite 'napping' spot.  S, I think it does help to be
around socialized cats who can sort of show them the way.

 

One other thing-we must look like huge monsters to these little guys.  He
got more scared if he saw me coming to pick him up than if I just sort of
snuck up behind him and scooped him up!  It just got to be a game where I'd
scoop him up, nuzzle him a bit, and then put him down. but it seemed to work
with him.

 

Christiane Biagi

914-632-4672

Cell:  914-720-6888

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)

www.findkpets.org

 

Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:31 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens

 

Thanks!  That makes me feel better!  I do leave the TV on their room all day
to force them to get used to human voices.  As far as food bowls and litter
box- no problem (except for the inevitable laying in the litter box!).
Nothing is going to stop these little pigs from eating...trust me.
Especially when I bring them their wet kitten food at night (wh/ I'm sure
they've never had)- I sit in front of their condo and stare at them-- they
HATE it, but it's so funny to watch the test of wills going through their
heads-- watching me, thinking I'm going to grab them, thinking they really
want to eat that food, etc.  EVERY TIME, those pigs opt for eating their
food- licking the bowls clean, while I hover over top of them!  They use the
box fine.
 
I haven't mixed them with my older cats yet- I plan to, because one of them,
LeeRoy, really likes all cats and is a great cat ambassador.  But I didn't
want to stress them out so much so soon after their surgery...so maybe in a
few days we will try that.  Supervised of course.
 
caroline 



  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:16:55 -0500

Fostered a little guy that somebody had dumped .. he was a real problem to
pick up-he'd hiss and curl up just as you described.  He'd also run a whole
lot faster than me and could get under things!   LOL  

 

I just made it a point to pick him up as much as I could.  He was around my
cats and I think that helped a whole lot cause once he started playing with
them and watching what they did, he figured it was OK.  I fed him with the
big guys and just being around, figuring out that the strange noises (TV,
vacumn, etc.) were OK, making his way to the food dish and the litter box
and the toys-all those things clicked and within a couple of weeks he was
ready to go.  He got adopted the 2nd day I brought him to the shelter (I
made a deal to bring him there during the day and pick him up at night).

 

My only suggestion is to do what you're doing-handle each of them as much as
possible, let them be kittens and find their food bowls and litter boxes,
and I bet it will work out.

 

Christiane Biagi

914-632-4672

Cell:  914-720-6888

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)

www.findkpets.org http://www.findkpets.org/ 

 

Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:59 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: socializing barn kittens

 

My other issue is that is took in 3 female barn kittens last Sat.  We are
estimating they are about 8 wks (just got spayed on Mon and all weigh almost
3 lbs).  They were born in a barn in Indiana- mom was dropped off on this
man's farm and had her kittens in the barn.  I don't know too many details,
but after they were born, they started coming out of the barn a little so
they were noticed by the farmer and his daughter.  They were not taken into
the house as far as I know they stayed in the barn until they were caught
and brought to me.  So my contact at the adoption agency obviously wanted to
get them fix and out of the bitter bitter cold and wants to see if they can
be socialized enough to be adopted out.  If not, they will have to
re-released to the barn.  She doesn't have the time/resources to take on
this project right now and she was given my name and number as the newest
kitten rehabber on the block I guess.  But I'm a rehabber of sick kittens-
that's my forte!  And these babies are the healthiest lil piggies I've seen
in a loong time (aw the irony).  (By the by, 5 of the 7 kittens that I
have nursed through illnesses and fostered since Sept. have been adopted!
The remaining ones are Yoda- who shows badly b/c he thinks I'm his mommy and
he has no intention of going anywhere...and 

Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Pat Kachur
I had a calico Persian kitty (Priscilla) who when I got her was just a kitten 
(she passed away at age 15 last year) and had the same kind of diarrhea problem 
when she first came to live with me--while otherwise perfectly healthy.  When I 
switched her to Max Cat, it immediately went away and she never had diarrhea 
again in her entire life.

Other kitties I have had with diarrhea but not as persistent - I have given 
kaopectate and/or Immodium AD (with my vet's concurrence) with good success.  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jane Lyons 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:04 PM
  Subject: Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten


  Caroline I've been battling diarrhea for months. It began as giardia and we 
used everything beginning with
  Panacur on down and nothing has worked. We used a remedy, Thullium met which 
worked for several months
  but it is back again and we in the same state that you are.


  Nina has a cat (Gypsy) who eats a home prepared 'turkey mush' recipe that 
cured her chronic diarrhea which
  was the result of IBD. You might check with her.


   I use both a homeopath and an allopathic vet and neither of them have been 
able to get rid of it. Her stools are negative
  too, and her diet (Whole Foods/PetGuard) is unchanged. She is Felv, and one 
of the vets indicated that it could be
  a result of FeLV, which I do not believe to be true. I'm in the process of 
consulting another vet. If I learn anything
  new, I'll let you know. Please keep us posted on Yoda. We are desperate. It 
is really awful.
  Jane












  On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:


I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea 
pretty much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may 
remember me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought it 
was just the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since 
the first weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.- 
nothing.  We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)-- no 
difference really.  And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of it- I 
used a whole can up of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah (added to 
his food)- it seemed to make no difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I 
stopped using it.  I've been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night 
lately- again, no difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so 
TIRED of answering those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time 
up to bat-- I'm not an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption agency people (those 
that have to approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me every friggin week 
about diet changes (um, none!) and the vet's office asking the same.  If anyone 
asks this on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going to say: Yeah, I'm trying this 
new thing were I feed Yoda something different for every meal...and tons of 
table scraps!  Why?  Do you think that could be it?!  
 
What else?  Oh, I took him back to the vet this Monday so they had the Yoda 
butt to really test for giardia- which I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is mingled 
with other fosters and personal cats and they would all have it by now and they 
don't, but just in case...They did another fecal-- nothing.  And I know he's 
healthy-- he looks like a little greyhound he's so healthy- he's all muscle and 
lean and just doing wonderful.  He never feels bad, but he'll go in the litter 
box and I will hear these horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds (sorry!) and then 
he just comes out like nothing happened!  But it smells horrible and sometimes 
he can't help but getting it on him and we're all just really tired of it!  The 
Vet said he looked great- which I already knew- and his hydration was great, 
his temp was fine, etc.  But I'm not crazy!  He's having this diarrhea!  He had 
a whole puddle of it last night in the litter box!  Sometimes it more cow 
pie-like, so that is why I say it comes and goes.  It's obviously not 
sustained diarrhea or else he would have hydration issues, which he doesn't.  
But I really want to solve this problem and I feel like I'm at a loss.  Yoda 
also seems to pass gas a lot- especially when he is nervous- like when we go to 
the cat adoption day-- he kind of smells and it's not his fur b/c I kitty wet 
wipe him before each adoption day- it's him sitting there nervously passing gas 
like he has IBS or something?  
 
I've been feeding Yoda kitten food- the Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken flavor 
that is for adult cats and kittens (whatever the H that means?) in the day.  
In the evening, he gets half a can of the small can of Wellness kitten with 
Brewer's Yeast and Lysine added.  The vet said that kitten food can be richer 
and to try switching him to adult cat food- maybe all dry b/c he thinks the 
wet, with the extra moisture can contribute to diarrhea. He recommended Purina 
(no, I'm not 

RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

Okay, thanks.  We are not desperate yet, but it is definitely affecting my 
ability to adopt him.  He's getting bigger and bigger every day and he's now a 
juvenile and past that adorable teeny kitten stage that all the people seem to 
want.  And I sometimes hold off taking him to cat adoption because want to get 
the diarrhea solved, rather than dump the problem on someone else.  But then 
the agency people are like why didn't you bring Yoda? and well Dr. so and so 
didn't find anything, so we really need to get him in here and adopted out... 
(these people drive me crazy!) and I feel sometimes like I am going crazy.  
Like people think I'm making it up b/c I just want to keep Yoda or something.  
Which I wouldn't make up some random diarrhea excuse if that was the case...I'd 
just keep him and tell everyone to go to H*ll!  I need to at least try another 
vet.  That's what we are going to do next week.  I'll let you know what happens.
Caroline 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: OT: diarrhea in 6 month old kittenDate: Wed, 19 
Dec 2007 17:04:52 -0500To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been battling diarrhea for 
months. It began as giardia and we used everything beginning with 
Panacur on down and nothing has worked. We used a remedy, Thullium met which 
worked for several months
but it is back again and we in the same state that you are.

Nina has a cat (Gypsy) who eats a home prepared 'turkey mush' recipe that cured 
her chronic diarrhea which
was the result of IBD. You might check with her.

 I use both a homeopath and an allopathic vet and neither of them have been 
able to get rid of it. Her stools are negative
too, and her diet (Whole Foods/PetGuard) is unchanged. She is Felv, and one of 
the vets indicated that it could be
a result of FeLV, which I do not believe to be true. I'm in the process of 
consulting another vet. If I learn anything
new, I'll let you know. Please keep us posted on Yoda. We are desperate. It is 
really awful.
Jane








On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea pretty 
much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may remember 
me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought it was just 
the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since the first 
weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.- nothing.  
We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)-- no difference really.  
And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of it- I used a whole can up 
of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah (added to his food)- it seemed 
to make no difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I stopped using it.  I've 
been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night lately- again, no 
difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so TIRED of answering 
those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time up to bat-- I'm not 
an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption agency people (those that have to 
approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me every friggin week about diet 
changes (um, none!) and the vet's office asking the same.  If anyone asks this 
on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going to say: Yeah, I'm trying this new thing 
were I feed Yoda something different for every meal...and tons of table scraps! 
 Why?  Do you think that could be it?!   What else?  Oh, I took him back to 
the vet this Monday so they had the Yoda butt to really test for giardia- which 
I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is mingled with other fosters and personal cats and 
they would all have it by now and they don't, but just in case...They did 
another fecal-- nothing.  And I know he's healthy-- he looks like a little 
greyhound he's so healthy- he's all muscle and lean and just doing wonderful.  
He never feels bad, but he'll go in the litter box and I will hear these 
horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds (sorry!) and then he just comes out like 
nothing happened!  But it smells horrible and sometimes he can't help but 
getting it on him and we're all just really tired of it!  The Vet said he 
looked great- which I already knew- and his hydration was great, his temp was 
fine, etc.  But I'm not crazy!  He's having this diarrhea!  He had a whole 
puddle of it last night in the litter box!  Sometimes it more cow pie-like, 
so that is why I say it comes and goes.  It's obviously not sustained diarrhea 
or else he would have hydration issues, which he doesn't.  But I really want to 
solve this problem and I feel like I'm at a loss.  Yoda also seems to pass gas 
a lot- especially when he is nervous- like when we go to the cat adoption day-- 
he kind of smells and it's not his fur b/c I kitty wet wipe him before each 
adoption day- it's him sitting there nervously passing gas like he has IBS or 
something?   I've been feeding Yoda kitten food- the Eagle Pack Holistic 
Chicken flavor that is for adult cats and kittens (whatever the H that 
means?) in 

RE: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

Yes!  That is exactly what I told my mom!  That's the comparison I used.  That 
they make me feel bad about myself b/c of the way they look at me when I come 
in the room...they look UP at me like I'm the giant from Jack  the Beanstock 
and I'm there to eat them...and when they scamper away from me...I know I 
shouldn't let it affect me, but it hurts my feelings.  The way they look at me 
makes me feel like a big, fat bumbling idiot!  And it's in such contrast to my 
upstairs room of overly-socialized, babyfied, spoiled boy cats- Yoda, LeeRoy 
and Possee!  I go in that room and they all knock things over trying to get TO 
me as fast as possible!  If I bend over, LeeRoy jumps on my back and lays on 
it- licks my head, neck, hair- whatever.  He greets anyone that walks in the 
room like a dog- wags his long tail and talks.  Possee licks me to death on 
the face in the morning; Yoda tries to play it cool with me, but when I was 
gone Friday into Sat. for 24 hours, when I came back, wow, it was a 
love-fest...lil nerd missed me and couldn't help but purr and let me hold him.  
So I'm not used to that terrified look and it does make me sad.  I get pouty!  
I know Monkee's at the Rainbow Bridge laughing is black  white a$$ off at me!
caroline  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: socializing barn kittensDate: 
Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:09:39 -0500






The little guy I fostered first latched on to my youngest (and smallest and 
most playful cat)  He followed him around continuously and played non stop.  
Then he latched on to my Tucson who just didn’t know what to make of him taking 
over her favorite ‘napping’ spot.  S, I think it does help to be around 
socialized cats who can sort of show them the way.
 
One other thing—we must look like huge monsters to these little guys.  He got 
more scared if he saw me coming to pick him up than if I just sort of snuck up 
behind him and scooped him up!  It just got to be a game where I’d scoop him 
up, nuzzle him a bit, and then put him down… but it seemed to work with him…
 

Christiane Biagi
914-632-4672
Cell:  914-720-6888
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)
www.findkpets.org
 
Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
KaufmannSent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:31 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: 
socializing barn kittens
 
Thanks!  That makes me feel better!  I do leave the TV on their room all day to 
force them to get used to human voices.  As far as food bowls and litter box- 
no problem (except for the inevitable laying in the litter box!).  Nothing is 
going to stop these little pigs from eating...trust me.  Especially when I 
bring them their wet kitten food at night (wh/ I'm sure they've never had)- I 
sit in front of their condo and stare at them-- they HATE it, but it's so funny 
to watch the test of wills going through their heads-- watching me, thinking 
I'm going to grab them, thinking they really want to eat that food, etc.  EVERY 
TIME, those pigs opt for eating their food- licking the bowls clean, while I 
hover over top of them!  They use the box fine. I haven't mixed them with my 
older cats yet- I plan to, because one of them, LeeRoy, really likes all cats 
and is a great cat ambassador.  But I didn't want to stress them out so much so 
soon after their surgery...so maybe in a few days we will try that.  Supervised 
of course. caroline 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: socializing barn kittensDate: 
Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:16:55 -0500

Fostered a little guy that somebody had dumped .. he was a real problem to pick 
up—he’d hiss and curl up just as you described.  He’d also run a whole lot 
faster than me and could get under things!   LOL  
 
I just made it a point to pick him up as much as I could.  He was around my 
cats and I think that helped a whole lot cause once he started playing with 
them and watching what they did, he figured it was OK.  I fed him with the big 
guys and just being around, figuring out that the strange noises (TV, vacumn, 
etc.) were OK, making his way to the food dish and the litter box and the 
toys—all those things clicked and within a couple of weeks he was ready to go.  
He got adopted the 2nd day I brought him to the shelter (I made a deal to bring 
him there during the day and pick him up at night).
 
My only suggestion is to do what you’re doing—handle each of them as much as 
possible, let them be kittens and find their food bowls and litter boxes, and I 
bet it will work out…
 

Christiane Biagi
914-632-4672
Cell:  914-720-6888
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)
www.findkpets.org
 
Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
KaufmannSent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:59 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OT: 
socializing barn kittens
 
My other issue is that is 

Re: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Marylyn
Ask Monkee to help you.  

The Royal Princess Kitty Katt hid from me for months after she had to come live 
with me.  She was an almost grown feral when she decided to move in with my 
parents..long story but I slept on the floor with her (reducing my size 
considerably--you might try it with your little ones.  Maybe prop yourself up 
on a pillow and read aloud to them or just be there with them).  Dr. Boswell 
suggested I try Feliway and I went thru several bottles spraying me, my clothes 
and especially my hands.  Everything came together.  FYI:  Kitty had a right to 
really dislike me.  I took her to the vet's, cut her nails, pilled her, caught 
her etc.  And, worst of all, brought in dogs!!!  

You can do this.  Just remember ferals and barn cats are not born to be pets.  
They can easily become pets but on their terms not yours or mine.  And, when 
they make that decision, they are the most wonderful friends.  You know you 
have been selected.  






 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:30 PM
  Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens


  Yes!  That is exactly what I told my mom!  That's the comparison I used.  
That they make me feel bad about myself b/c of the way they look at me when I 
come in the room...they look UP at me like I'm the giant from Jack  the 
Beanstock and I'm there to eat them...and when they scamper away from me...I 
know I shouldn't let it affect me, but it hurts my feelings.  The way they look 
at me makes me feel like a big, fat bumbling idiot!  And it's in such contrast 
to my upstairs room of overly-socialized, babyfied, spoiled boy cats- Yoda, 
LeeRoy and Possee!  I go in that room and they all knock things over trying to 
get TO me as fast as possible!  If I bend over, LeeRoy jumps on my back and 
lays on it- licks my head, neck, hair- whatever.  He greets anyone that walks 
in the room like a dog- wags his long tail and talks.  Possee licks me to 
death on the face in the morning; Yoda tries to play it cool with me, but when 
I was gone Friday into Sat. for 24 hours, when I came back, wow, it was a 
love-fest...lil nerd missed me and couldn't help but purr and let me hold him.  
So I'm not used to that terrified look and it does make me sad.  I get pouty!  
I know Monkee's at the Rainbow Bridge laughing is black  white a$$ off at me!
  caroline  





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:09:39 -0500


The little guy I fostered first latched on to my youngest (and smallest and 
most playful cat)  He followed him around continuously and played non stop.  
Then he latched on to my Tucson who just didn’t know what to make of him taking 
over her favorite ‘napping’ spot.  S, I think it does help to be around 
socialized cats who can sort of show them the way.



One other thing—we must look like huge monsters to these little guys.  He 
got more scared if he saw me coming to pick him up than if I just sort of snuck 
up behind him and scooped him up!  It just got to be a game where I’d scoop him 
up, nuzzle him a bit, and then put him down… but it seemed to work with him…



Christiane Biagi

914-632-4672

Cell:  914-720-6888

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)

www.findkpets.org



Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:31 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens



Thanks!  That makes me feel better!  I do leave the TV on their room all 
day to force them to get used to human voices.  As far as food bowls and litter 
box- no problem (except for the inevitable laying in the litter box!).  Nothing 
is going to stop these little pigs from eating...trust me.  Especially when I 
bring them their wet kitten food at night (wh/ I'm sure they've never had)- I 
sit in front of their condo and stare at them-- they HATE it, but it's so funny 
to watch the test of wills going through their heads-- watching me, thinking 
I'm going to grab them, thinking they really want to eat that food, etc.  EVERY 
TIME, those pigs opt for eating their food- licking the bowls clean, while I 
hover over top of them!  They use the box fine.
 
I haven't mixed them with my older cats 

Re: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Marylyn
When you stare at them you are challenging them.  I know it is fun but you need 
to look at them thru almost closed eyes.  You are threatening to them.  I found 
out the hard way.  I thought you could stare down a cat like you can some dogs. 
 NOPE.  They are CAT.






 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:30 PM
  Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens


  Yes!  That is exactly what I told my mom!  That's the comparison I used.  
That they make me feel bad about myself b/c of the way they look at me when I 
come in the room...they look UP at me like I'm the giant from Jack  the 
Beanstock and I'm there to eat them...and when they scamper away from me...I 
know I shouldn't let it affect me, but it hurts my feelings.  The way they look 
at me makes me feel like a big, fat bumbling idiot!  And it's in such contrast 
to my upstairs room of overly-socialized, babyfied, spoiled boy cats- Yoda, 
LeeRoy and Possee!  I go in that room and they all knock things over trying to 
get TO me as fast as possible!  If I bend over, LeeRoy jumps on my back and 
lays on it- licks my head, neck, hair- whatever.  He greets anyone that walks 
in the room like a dog- wags his long tail and talks.  Possee licks me to 
death on the face in the morning; Yoda tries to play it cool with me, but when 
I was gone Friday into Sat. for 24 hours, when I came back, wow, it was a 
love-fest...lil nerd missed me and couldn't help but purr and let me hold him.  
So I'm not used to that terrified look and it does make me sad.  I get pouty!  
I know Monkee's at the Rainbow Bridge laughing is black  white a$$ off at me!
  caroline  





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:09:39 -0500


The little guy I fostered first latched on to my youngest (and smallest and 
most playful cat)  He followed him around continuously and played non stop.  
Then he latched on to my Tucson who just didn’t know what to make of him taking 
over her favorite ‘napping’ spot.  S, I think it does help to be around 
socialized cats who can sort of show them the way.



One other thing—we must look like huge monsters to these little guys.  He 
got more scared if he saw me coming to pick him up than if I just sort of snuck 
up behind him and scooped him up!  It just got to be a game where I’d scoop him 
up, nuzzle him a bit, and then put him down… but it seemed to work with him…



Christiane Biagi

914-632-4672

Cell:  914-720-6888

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)

www.findkpets.org



Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:31 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens



Thanks!  That makes me feel better!  I do leave the TV on their room all 
day to force them to get used to human voices.  As far as food bowls and litter 
box- no problem (except for the inevitable laying in the litter box!).  Nothing 
is going to stop these little pigs from eating...trust me.  Especially when I 
bring them their wet kitten food at night (wh/ I'm sure they've never had)- I 
sit in front of their condo and stare at them-- they HATE it, but it's so funny 
to watch the test of wills going through their heads-- watching me, thinking 
I'm going to grab them, thinking they really want to eat that food, etc.  EVERY 
TIME, those pigs opt for eating their food- licking the bowls clean, while I 
hover over top of them!  They use the box fine.
 
I haven't mixed them with my older cats yet- I plan to, because one of 
them, LeeRoy, really likes all cats and is a great cat ambassador.  But I 
didn't want to stress them out so much so soon after their surgery...so maybe 
in a few days we will try that.  Supervised of course.
 
caroline 






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:16:55 -0500

Fostered a little guy that somebody had dumped .. he was a real problem to 
pick up—he’d hiss and curl up just as you described.  He’d also run a whole lot 
faster than me and could get under things!   LOL  



I 

Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

2007-12-19 Thread C J
Just a suggestion, have you ever tried a raw diet?  I feed raw, and one thing 
I've read many times, is that cats with chronic IBD often develop normal poo 
when fully switched to raw.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:36 PM
  Subject: RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten


  Well, Yoda's favorite thing to do is run across my bed, romp on it and 
rummage in my pillow!  So sometimes there are poopy footprints left on my bed!  
It's so gross- and I have a multiple junky covers I use as my top sheet to 
protect my actual bedsheets from getting the Yoda-prints...but still, it's 
gross and I'm tired of changing it every day after his little party on my bed!  
He really trashed it one time and my mom was like, I would rather die than 
sleep in that bed!  And I'm a clean-freak/germaphobe-- that's the irony!
  caroline





Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:25:06 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org


Metronidazole can in very rare instances cause convulsions.  Very rare 
though.  Untreated giardia is far more dangerous.

And, uh, Caroline, if you ever catch giardia from a foster kitty, we're 
going to have to discuss some grooming issues.  Transmission is a fecal to oral 
route.  So don't take playing mamma cat too literally and you should be OK.

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  No.  I didn't want to give him anything that he didn't need.  But I do 
have access to Albon.  
   
  Incidentally, one of the other fosters told me on Sat.- when I was 
complaining about Yoda's on going saga- that some of her cats- or a litter that 
was recently adopted, not sure which, just tested positive for giardia, but 
they haven't treated yet b/c the vet said that the drug for it can cause 
seizures and that scared her to death.  This is another one of those this is 
just what I heard.  But she wanted to know if Yoda tested pos for giardia 
(which he didn't and I'm sure he doesn't have- it's a Yoda-specific problem and 
if he had had giardia, I'd have it by now!), b/c she wanted to know what I 
decided to do b/c the vet really freaked her out about treating the cats for 
giardia.  Anyone know about this?  
  Caroline 





Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:06:14 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

You know - has he been treated for coccidia?  A lot of times my vet 
will treat for coccidia even if nothing shows up on the fecal, because it is so 
hard to detect.  Metronidazole doesn't cure coccidia...Albon or there is a new 
drug that does it... 


On Dec 19, 2007 2:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea 
pretty much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may 
remember me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought it 
was just the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since 
the first weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.- 
nothing.  We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)-- no 
difference really.  And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of it- I 
used a whole can up of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah (added to 
his food)- it seemed to make no difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I 
stopped using it.  I've been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night 
lately- again, no difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so 
TIRED of answering those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time 
up to bat-- I'm not an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption agency people (those 
that have to approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me every friggin week 
about diet changes (um, none!) and the vet's office asking the same.  If anyone 
asks this on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going to say: Yeah, I'm trying this 
new thing were I feed Yoda something different for every meal...and tons of 
table scraps!  Why?  Do you think that could be it?!  
   
  What else?  Oh, I took him back to the vet this Monday so they had 
the Yoda butt to really test for giardia- which I knew it wasn't b/c Yoda is 
mingled with other fosters and personal cats and they would all have it by now 
and they don't, but just in case...They did another fecal-- nothing.  And I 
know he's healthy-- he looks like a little greyhound he's so healthy- he's all 
muscle and lean and just doing wonderful.  He never feels bad, but he'll go in 
the litter box and I will hear these horrible diarrhea, squirty sounds (sorry!) 
and then he just comes out 

Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten (Questions for Caroline)

2007-12-19 Thread Susan Hoffman
Please do not assume IBD.  That's basically a default diagnosis when nothing 
else makes sense.
   
  1.  How long was he on metronidazole and at what dosage?
  2.  Has your vet considered tritrichomonas foetus and treatment with 
ronidazole?  (Tritrich is really pretty common.  Until recently however it was 
often mistaken as metronidazole-resistant giardia.  So don't rule it out as 
some rare bug.)
   
  Parasites are very likely.  Fecal tests have been estimated at around 50% 
accurate.  Sometimes you have to treat the symptoms even when the cause is not 
certain.

C  J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.hmmessage P {   PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 
0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px  }  BODY.hmmessage {   FONT-SIZE: 10pt; 
FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma  }Just a suggestion, have you ever tried a raw 
diet?  I feed raw, and one thing I've read many times, is that cats with 
chronic IBD often develop normal poo when fully switched to raw.
- Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:36 PM
  Subject: RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten
  

Well, Yoda's favorite thing to do is run across my bed, romp on it and rummage 
in my pillow!  So sometimes there are poopy footprints left on my bed!  It's so 
gross- and I have a multiple junky covers I use as my top sheet to protect my 
actual bedsheets from getting the Yoda-prints...but still, it's gross and I'm 
tired of changing it every day after his little party on my bed!  He really 
trashed it one time and my mom was like, I would rather die than sleep in that 
bed!  And I'm a clean-freak/germaphobe-- that's the irony!
caroline



-
  Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:25:06 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

  Metronidazole can in very rare instances cause convulsions.  Very rare 
though.  Untreated giardia is far more dangerous.
   
  And, uh, Caroline, if you ever catch giardia from a foster kitty, we're going 
to have to discuss some grooming issues.  Transmission is a fecal to oral 
route.  So don't take playing mamma cat too literally and you should be OK.

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P  {padding:0px;}  .ExternalClass 
EC_body.hmmessage  {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}No.  I didn't want 
to give him anything that he didn't need.  But I do have access to Albon.  
 
Incidentally, one of the other fosters told me on Sat.- when I was complaining 
about Yoda's on going saga- that some of her cats- or a litter that was 
recently adopted, not sure which, just tested positive for giardia, but they 
haven't treated yet b/c the vet said that the drug for it can cause seizures 
and that scared her to death.  This is another one of those this is just what 
I heard.  But she wanted to know if Yoda tested pos for giardia (which he 
didn't and I'm sure he doesn't have- it's a Yoda-specific problem and if he had 
had giardia, I'd have it by now!), b/c she wanted to know what I decided to do 
b/c the vet really freaked her out about treating the cats for giardia.  Anyone 
know about this?  
Caroline 



-
  Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:06:14 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten

You know - has he been treated for coccidia?  A lot of times my vet will treat 
for coccidia even if nothing shows up on the fecal, because it is so hard to 
detect.  Metronidazole doesn't cure coccidia...Albon or there is a new drug 
that does it... 

  On Dec 19, 2007 2:32 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a 6 month old non-felv kitten named Yoda that has had diarrhea 
pretty much off and on ever since I've had him (Labor Day).  Some of you may 
remember me asking you about Yoda's diarrhea back then (at first I thought it 
was just the antibiotic for his URI, but he hasn't been on an antibiotic since 
the first weeks of Sept., so that is out).  The vet ran a fecal back in Oct.- 
nothing.  We treated with metro...zole (can't remember the name)-- no 
difference really.  And I have treated him with probiotics just for H of it- I 
used a whole can up of the Eagle Pack Holistic Remedy for Diarreah (added to 
his food)- it seemed to make no difference with Yoda, so when it ran out, I 
stopped using it.  I've been adding benebac (sp?) to his wet food at night 
lately- again, no difference.  Don't ask about food and diet changes-- I'm so 
TIRED of answering those friggin questions-- I mean, this isn't my first time 
up to bat-- I'm not an idiot.  I'm tired of the adoption agency
 people (those that have to approve Yoda going to the vet) asking me every 
friggin week about diet changes (um, none!) and the vet's office asking the 
same.  If anyone asks this on Sat. at Cat Adoption Day, I'm going to say: 

Re: OT: diarreah in 6 month old kitten (Questions for Caroline)

2007-12-19 Thread Kelley Saveika
On Dec 19, 2007 6:23 PM, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Please do not assume IBD.  That's basically a default diagnosis when
 nothing else makes sense.

 1.  How long was he on metronidazole and at what dosage?
 2.  Has your vet considered tritrichomonas foetus and treatment with
 ronidazole?  (Tritrich is really pretty common.  Until recently however it
 was often mistaken as metronidazole-resistant giardia.  So don't rule it out
 as some rare bug.)

 Parasites are very likely.  Fecal tests have been estimated at around 50%
 accurate.  Sometimes you have to treat the symptoms even when the cause is
 not certain.


I agree.  My Ciara was diagnosed with IBD after a couple of clean fecals and
that's how I got such a bad case of giardia in my house, because it was
really giardia.  Believe me, I know the pain of persistent
diarrhea...*believe me*...


RE: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

They are actually doing really well so far.  I have one sitting in my lap right 
now napping, but when I starting typing on the keyboard, she woke up a little 
and just follows the cursor with her eyes!  But no freak-out or anything.  I 
also discovered the other night that they will nap while I hold all 3 of them 
together wrapped in a blanket- the kitty burrito- while I work on the 
computer.  They love to watch the cursor being moved by the mouse!  
 
I would say at this point they are tamer than ferals and I guess that is why I 
used the term socialization.  Tonight, I've had two of them lick turkey baby 
food off my finger-- they are such suckers for food- little fatties, so I think 
that is huge!  And the black one, whom I have never heard meow- only hiss at 
me- meowed at me tonight AFTER I PUT IT BACK IN THE CAT CONDO!  Looked right at 
me and meowed... a bunch of times.  So I gave him more baby food- which he ate.
 
On that note, I was told many times by the initial rescuer of these kittens 
that they are all females.  The vet clinic that did their fvrcps, wormings, 
etc., marked them as all females.  I thought all got spayed yesterday.  But 
since I have had them, I kept calling the black one him and he and bud 
and lil guy and had to correct myself a lot.  Well, apparently not b/c I was 
right.  I am one of those people who just gets a sense of sex with cats- even 
teeny kittens- right away and I am usually never wrong.  So that is why this 
bothered me so much that I was told they were all girls b/c I just didn't get 
that from the black one.  But I went ahead and named them b/c I thought, well 
the 1st vet clinic said they were all girls  But when I went to check the 
black one's sutures tonight, the belly wasn't shaved and I was like what the 
H?  Low and behold, we have teeny little balls that were removed!  I was so 
happy-- mostly just to know that I was right GD it!  But I wish I hadn't named 
them.  I had named them: Ladee (sounds like Lady)- grey  white; Babee 
baby- all grey; and Sadee Sadie- my black one!  The double ee's are in 
honor of Monkee of course.  I thought those were about the cutest names ever 
and Sadee was my favorite.  I thought they would be fun to market with those 
names!  Oh well, back to the drawing board.  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: socializing barn kittensDate: 
Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:28:48 -0600



When you stare at them you are challenging them.  I know it is fun but you need 
to look at them thru almost closed eyes.  You are threatening to them.  I found 
out the hard way.  I thought you could stare down a cat like you can some dogs. 
 NOPE.  They are CAT.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures 
from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who  
will deal likewise with their fellow man.   
   St. Francis

- Original Message - 
From: Caroline Kaufmann 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens
Yes!  That is exactly what I told my mom!  That's the comparison I used.  That 
they make me feel bad about myself b/c of the way they look at me when I come 
in the room...they look UP at me like I'm the giant from Jack  the Beanstock 
and I'm there to eat them...and when they scamper away from me...I know I 
shouldn't let it affect me, but it hurts my feelings.  The way they look at me 
makes me feel like a big, fat bumbling idiot!  And it's in such contrast to my 
upstairs room of overly-socialized, babyfied, spoiled boy cats- Yoda, LeeRoy 
and Possee!  I go in that room and they all knock things over trying to get TO 
me as fast as possible!  If I bend over, LeeRoy jumps on my back and lays on 
it- licks my head, neck, hair- whatever.  He greets anyone that walks in the 
room like a dog- wags his long tail and talks.  Possee licks me to death on 
the face in the morning; Yoda tries to play it cool with me, but when I was 
gone Friday into Sat. for 24 hours, when I came back, wow, it was a 
love-fest...lil nerd missed me and couldn't help but purr and let me hold him.  
So I'm not used to that terrified look and it does make me sad.  I get pouty!  
I know Monkee's at the Rainbow Bridge laughing is black  white a$$ off at 
me!caroline  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: socializing barn kittensDate: 
Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:09:39 -0500





The little guy I fostered first latched on to my youngest (and smallest and 
most playful cat)  He followed him around continuously and played non stop.  
Then he latched on to my Tucson who just didn’t know what to make of him taking 
over her favorite ‘napping’ spot.  S, I think it does help to be around 
socialized cats who can sort of show them the way.
 
One other 

RE: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Chris
Best ideas I have would be to let them romp around with the older guys as
soon as you can and to just always pick them up, nuzzle and put down-make it
a game with them.  One thing about kittens-they just love to play!

 

Christiane Biagi

914-632-4672

Cell:  914-720-6888

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)

www.findkpets.org

 

Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:31 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens

 

Yes!  That is exactly what I told my mom!  That's the comparison I used.
That they make me feel bad about myself b/c of the way they look at me when
I come in the room...they look UP at me like I'm the giant from Jack  the
Beanstock and I'm there to eat them...and when they scamper away from me...I
know I shouldn't let it affect me, but it hurts my feelings.  The way they
look at me makes me feel like a big, fat bumbling idiot!  And it's in such
contrast to my upstairs room of overly-socialized, babyfied, spoiled boy
cats- Yoda, LeeRoy and Possee!  I go in that room and they all knock things
over trying to get TO me as fast as possible!  If I bend over, LeeRoy jumps
on my back and lays on it- licks my head, neck, hair- whatever.  He greets
anyone that walks in the room like a dog- wags his long tail and talks.
Possee licks me to death on the face in the morning; Yoda tries to play it
cool with me, but when I was gone Friday into Sat. for 24 hours, when I came
back, wow, it was a love-fest...lil nerd missed me and couldn't help but
purr and let me hold him.  So I'm not used to that terrified look and it
does make me sad.  I get pouty!  I know Monkee's at the Rainbow Bridge
laughing is black  white a$$ off at me!
caroline  



  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:09:39 -0500

The little guy I fostered first latched on to my youngest (and smallest and
most playful cat)  He followed him around continuously and played non stop.
Then he latched on to my Tucson who just didn't know what to make of him
taking over her favorite 'napping' spot.  S, I think it does help to be
around socialized cats who can sort of show them the way.

 

One other thing-we must look like huge monsters to these little guys.  He
got more scared if he saw me coming to pick him up than if I just sort of
snuck up behind him and scooped him up!  It just got to be a game where I'd
scoop him up, nuzzle him a bit, and then put him down. but it seemed to work
with him.

 

Christiane Biagi

914-632-4672

Cell:  914-720-6888

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)

www.findkpets.org http://www.findkpets.org/ 

 

Join Us  Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:31 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens

 

Thanks!  That makes me feel better!  I do leave the TV on their room all day
to force them to get used to human voices.  As far as food bowls and litter
box- no problem (except for the inevitable laying in the litter box!).
Nothing is going to stop these little pigs from eating...trust me.
Especially when I bring them their wet kitten food at night (wh/ I'm sure
they've never had)- I sit in front of their condo and stare at them-- they
HATE it, but it's so funny to watch the test of wills going through their
heads-- watching me, thinking I'm going to grab them, thinking they really
want to eat that food, etc.  EVERY TIME, those pigs opt for eating their
food- licking the bowls clean, while I hover over top of them!  They use the
box fine.
 
I haven't mixed them with my older cats yet- I plan to, because one of them,
LeeRoy, really likes all cats and is a great cat ambassador.  But I didn't
want to stress them out so much so soon after their surgery...so maybe in a
few days we will try that.  Supervised of course.
 
caroline 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:16:55 -0500

Fostered a little guy that somebody had dumped .. he was a real problem to
pick up-he'd hiss and curl up just as you described.  He'd also run a whole
lot faster than me and could get under things!   LOL  

 

I just made it a point to pick him up as much as I could.  He was around my
cats and I think that helped a whole lot cause once he started playing with
them and watching what they did, he figured it was OK.  I fed him with the
big guys and just being around, figuring out that the strange noises (TV,
vacumn, etc.) were OK, making his way to the food dish and the litter box
and the toys-all those things clicked and within a couple of weeks he was
ready to go.  He got adopted the 

Re: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Kelley Saveika
Sounds like you're doing a great job!:)
-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20

http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties*

Please help Clarissa!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/clarissasheart


Re: socializing barn kittens

2007-12-19 Thread Marylyn







 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: Marylyn 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:22 AM
  Subject: Re: socializing barn kittens


  You may want to get a laser pointer (Office Depot, Wal-Mart etc) to use with 
the little ones.  Just be extremely careful with their eyes.  Some cats love to 
chase the dot and, since these are motherless, they need some training in 
hunting.  Like it or not, they may return to a barn and need skills there that 
house cats don't use.  If the male has been neutered at such a young age he 
will have a particularly rough time.   

  PS:  You are doing great.  The ones who have come to live with me were grown 
and feral.  I've worked with a lot of semi-ferals and throw-aways.  It is 
difficult but extremely rewarding.  Again, check with with Dr. Maier for really 
good ideas.  She does a lot of this work and you already know her.   






   If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
   from the shelter of 
compassion and pity, you will have men who 
   will deal likewise with 
their fellow man.
St. Francis
- Original Message - 
From: Caroline Kaufmann 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: RE: socializing barn kittens


They are actually doing really well so far.  I have one sitting in my lap 
right now napping, but when I starting typing on the keyboard, she woke up a 
little and just follows the cursor with her eyes!  But no freak-out or 
anything.  I also discovered the other night that they will nap while I hold 
all 3 of them together wrapped in a blanket- the kitty burrito- while I work 
on the computer.  They love to watch the cursor being moved by the mouse!  
 
I would say at this point they are tamer than ferals and I guess that is 
why I used the term socialization.  Tonight, I've had two of them lick turkey 
baby food off my finger-- they are such suckers for food- little fatties, so I 
think that is huge!  And the black one, whom I have never heard meow- only hiss 
at me- meowed at me tonight AFTER I PUT IT BACK IN THE CAT CONDO!  Looked right 
at me and meowed... a bunch of times.  So I gave him more baby food- which he 
ate.
 
On that note, I was told many times by the initial rescuer of these kittens 
that they are all females.  The vet clinic that did their fvrcps, wormings, 
etc., marked them as all females.  I thought all got spayed yesterday.  But 
since I have had them, I kept calling the black one him and he and bud 
and lil guy and had to correct myself a lot.  Well, apparently not b/c I was 
right.  I am one of those people who just gets a sense of sex with cats- even 
teeny kittens- right away and I am usually never wrong.  So that is why this 
bothered me so much that I was told they were all girls b/c I just didn't get 
that from the black one.  But I went ahead and named them b/c I thought, well 
the 1st vet clinic said they were all girls  But when I went to check the 
black one's sutures tonight, the belly wasn't shaved and I was like what the 
H?  Low and behold, we have teeny little balls that were removed!  I was so 
happy-- mostly just to know that I was right GD it!  But I wish I hadn't named 
them.  I had named them: Ladee (sounds like Lady)- grey  white; Babee 
baby- all grey; and Sadee Sadie- my black one!  The double ee's are in 
honor of Monkee of course.  I thought those were about the cutest names ever 
and Sadee was my favorite.  I thought they would be fun to market with those 
names!  Oh well, back to the drawing board.  




--
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: socializing barn kittens
  Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:28:48 -0600


  When you stare at them you are challenging them.  I know it is fun but 
you need to look at them thru almost closed eyes.  You are threatening to them. 
 I found out the hard way.  I thought you could stare down a cat like you can 
some dogs.  NOPE.  They are CAT.






   If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
   from the shelter of 
compassion and pity, you will have men who