Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-26 Thread Karolyn Lount
That Hospital would have had to pay for their disposal. They do not get to dispose the expired animals for free

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-26 Thread tamara stickler
This is the last time I'll comment on this thread, I promise Yes, vet hospitals, shelters, etc. DO have to pay ...per pound...to dispose of the deceased animals this is why they charge for drop offs. (This is why the owner of DAR in MD was charged with dumping carcusses from his no kill into

Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New York, New Jersey and Conn. area.I am not making an excuse for Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I am very familiar with this rescue

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
That is no excuse...I am appauld that anyone would stand up for this individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand up for her and her

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread tamara stickler
Mia, I don't think you really have to worry. This particular Kitty Kind, just like Defenders of Animal Rights, Inc. aka Adopt A Pet in MD, is an example of good intentions gone bad...whether through emotion (this particular Kitty Kind I'm assuming) or greed (as in D.A.R.I know first hand). While

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Nina
Mia, I understand what you are saying about not judging everyone involved with an organization because of one individual's actions and, of course, the cats in their care shouldn't suffer further because of any human's misconduct. When I read about this situation, I couldn't help but wonder

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Nina, You are too kind.I am not so understanding, she runs the shelter and should be an influence to others that volunteer , and by doing what she has done it more or less condones it for the volunteers. CherieNina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mia,I understand what you are saying about not judging

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2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
I am not standing up for her or what she has done please read again what I have wrote. We were actually crying when we heard on the news what she did because we did get to meet some of these amazing cats during adoption events they held. Many rescuersalong withmyself are extremely upset by this

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Susan Loesch
Mia, I agree with both sides on this. And I see what you are saying - I wonder if perhaps the publicity the organization is receiving could be used to the advantage of the cats who remain in the program - sometimes something like this that horrifies people will also move them to action - and

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2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
I agree to a point, but my vet and the local vets around here, would take deceased animals and get rid of the bodies for you, with no cost, and I have made some calls and I have not found an animal hospital or vet around me that would not take the animal from you. As for vet cost, if you can not

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
To everyone in this group, Please do not take my recent email as a defense to Kitty Kind or this organization. Again I am not affiliated with them and believe what her actions have createdis horrible. My previous email is to express my concernfor the cats with Kitty Kind and also the fosters and

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
To everyone in this group, Please do not take my recent email as a defense to Kitty Kind or this organization. Again I am not affiliated with them and believe what her actions have createdis horrible. My previous email is to express my concernfor the cats with Kitty Kind and also the fosters and

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
I feel for the volunteers and such, but they should have been friendly enough and they should have seen all the cats going home with her to at least question a little, I mean I would have asked and wanted to see some of the kitties I bonded with and come over to play with them...also what kind of

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2005-05-24 Thread Tad Burnett
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there

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2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Ignorance, is not an excuse the fosters and volunteers should have asked questions and inquired about the sick kitties would have been humane and kind hearted. I hope the adoption rate goes up for the shelter and Kess gets what is coming to her...I am so enraged by this, sad for the animals but

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can not defend

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2005-05-24 Thread tamara stickler
I agree with Tad. Punishment does very little to solve the problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more reasonable. But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but not handle money or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not lead at this point. Plus, a

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
I think the reason for jail time would be to isolate her from the animal community, she might have done more harm than good and the act of putting dead animals one after another in garbage bags is diplorable. Think about how long it takes for an animal to pass, and then consider the amount of dead

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2005-05-24 Thread Joan Doljan
I don't know if she should serve jail time, but I agree that she should NOT work with animals. I think a mental health expert needs to evaluate the best course of action to treat her. JoanCherie A Gabbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the reason for jail time would be to isolate her from the

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2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation butmaybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am going

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2005-05-24 Thread tamara stickler
Cherie A Gabbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other kids? Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave "animals" just where it is... I love kids too,

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2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
Cherie, The foster and volunteers are not ignorant. I understand you are mad at this woman but don't take it out on people that did not know -some are more upset than you. What if they were led to believe these animals were adopted or healthy and ok. Remember Kess has been doing this animal

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Good thought, how about a metal health facility to be evaluated for 60 days, that is a lighter sentence and she will still feel the repercussions of her actions.Joan Doljan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if she should serve jail time, but I agree that she should NOT work with animals. I

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
I totally agree with you Tamara!! Miatamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with Tad. Punishment does very little to solve the problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more reasonable. But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but not handle money or

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Mia and Tad, Would you feel the same way if it were children as opposed to animals...Think about it, it is the same difference.Mia Nicer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation butmaybe we should have some sympathy for those that

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Mia, When I have volunteered and fostered in the past I would go to other fosters homes and volunteers just to stop by and say hi, or visit the furr kids that I had cared for, the director would often be questioned by myself and others as to her population stand point and she would have us over to

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
I do agree she should no longer work with animals. It's so unfortunate because I am pretty sure she came into this wanting to do good for animals and in the end just didn't no her limits or when to ask for help. MiaCherie A Gabbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the reason for jail time would

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
you couldn't have said it any better!! Miatamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cherie A Gabbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other kids? Ah...no..you'll get the more

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Gloria B. Lane
Well, I think that punishment is certainly not a solution, and I'm not sure without knowing her if psych help is called for. But helping her find solutions to her animal problem would help, and in general a better system of dealing with the animal problem would solve a lot of problems. It's

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Doljan, Joan
Title: Message That would be fine with me! -Original Message-From: Cherie A Gabbert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:39 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Orange,

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
Cherie, I don't agree with what happened as I have said more than a few time with what Kess did. I agree with what your saying as to maybe there should have been a system to have everyone looked at. I just don't feel that all volunteers and fosters should be responsible for this woman's actions.

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2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
We are all working towards happy home life solutions for all our furry friends. That is why I think she should not be able to come near animals and care giving. Cherie"Gloria B. Lane" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I think that punishment is certainly not a solution, and I'm not sure without

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2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Mia, We will agree to disagree on this. I feel when you take on the responsiblity to foster or volunteer, you must take responsibility for your actions and that means if you were negligent in asking questions and being informed about the others in your facility then you are also to blame for the

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Now we just need to get our thoughts know to all.That is a big job Cherie"Doljan, Joan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That would be fine with me! -Original Message-From: Cherie A Gabbert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:39 PMTo:

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Joan Doljan
I agree.Since most of us screen adopters, I think the same should be for fosterers. I pay attention when someone says a house smells, or their cats are always sick etc. I never send anyone anywhere unless I have seen the house or facility, or someone I trust has. JoanCherie A Gabbert [EMAIL

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Tad Burnett
Hi Mia She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard... But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
I am glad I am not the only one, who looks further into these people. I have seen some deplorable places, and they did not think anything was wrong. CherieJoan Doljan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree.Since most of us screen adopters, I think the same should be for fosterers. I pay attention when

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also? CherieTad Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mia She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
I am totally with you on that Tad. I think she should not have let this happen and am so worried of all the people that volunteered their time to help the animals in this group. Alot of them are worried all their efforts will be forgotten, their names have badmouthedand are already getting

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2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Mia, The animals already have suffered, I just want Kess to suffer also..I would do anything to help the animals, maybe not so much the volunteers and the founder but at least the animals always come first. CherieMia Nicer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am totally with you on that Tad. I think

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2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
Yes someone should keep aneye out for Kess but to assume that every volunteer and foster should be responsible and should have known is **insane. That's like saying if your boss or the president of you job embezeled money from the company -if we found him guilty thenshould you also go to jail

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2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
But Joan The volunteers and fosters are not resposible for the animals that Kess takes home. Joan Doljan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree.Since most of us screen adopters, I think the same should be for fosterers. I pay attention when someone says a house smells, or their cats are always sick

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2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Along those lines...we are not talking about a company we are talking about animals and people who CHOOSE to be there should CHOOSE to take responsibility and know all aspects and what goes on behind the scenes. The boss gets in trouble you COULD very well possibly be in trouble also, accounts get

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2005-05-24 Thread Barb Moermond
frankly, I don't see that happening here - as overworked as a lot of child protective agencies are, there are too many checks and balances and places where kids are noticed - the neighbors would have called months ago f'rinstance. There are simply far more laws and societal rules in place to

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
He meant she needed help from the begin so it didn't esculate to this point. She should have asked for help. Cherie A Gabbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also? CherieTad Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mia She has a

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Again, they should ask and shouls have been aware of what Kess was doing, if animals disappear from the shelter, you would inquire if they were adopted out or if she brought them home, then later ask about their and see if she needs any help...all things I myself have done and asked.Mia Nicer

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2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
I am nowhere near perfect, and I am on that soap box also, that family should be investigated.alot of families should be, but when one actually gets found out I think an example should be made. Kess needs to be made an example of...and laws are way too lax where animals are concerned. I also

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
I agree, but she needs to be made an example of because what she did was WRONG.Mia Nicer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He meant she needed help from the begin so it didn't esculate to this point. She should have asked for help. Cherie A Gabbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about 200 decaying kids in

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Tad Burnett
I agree...I would like to know the story behind the 200 dead animals... That makes no sense to me...But if she took in a lot of sick FeLV+... That is still a huge number to have outside and she has to be sick to let that happen..As I say there is a story behind that and I think we need to

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Barb Moermond
I agree that she made some very poor decisions, but until the authorities know exactly what is going on, and THEY know more than WE do, we just have the press, full judgment needs to be suspended until such time as deliberate cruelty is confirmed. And yes, the animal cruelty laws need to be much

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
If she would have picked up the phone and called the local animal hospital I am sure they would have taken the dead animals...unless she did not want to answer questions, and that is just another mark against her.Tad Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree...I would like to know the story behind

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
I would say mixing that MANY sick and healthy kitties and having that many animals remains shows cruelty...she could have called someone or even left the bodies outside the animal hospital if she did not want to answer questions.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that she made some

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
Barb Thank you so much for that!!! Everyone makes mistakes not everyone is perfect. She did somthing extremely wrong but she did do some great things in the past that did help animals. Still this is not an excuse. miaBarb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: frankly, I don't see that happening here

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2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
Ithe volunteers and fosters come when they have the time most dont get the chance to meet all the animals, most of them were not aware of how many animals were in her care. They work full-time and try to spend the free time they have when they are not with their familyshelping these animals. Now

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Mia Nicer
The local animal hospital wouldn't have taken the animals -not 200 maybe 1 or 2 but would have charged her. She just shouldn't have let it happen at all.Cherie A Gabbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If she would have picked up the phone and called the local animal hospital I am sure they would have

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Cherie A Gabbert
Absolutely not, but we are not talking about a company, we are talking about animal welfare, and the people closely involved.Mia Nicer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but do you feel that everyone in that company lets say 500 should be resposible and know what each other is doing. I agree there should