[Fis] Further Discussion . . .

> In next weeks some further discussion might be started, but at the time being, the slot is empty (any ideas?)< Hi Pedro, For my part I would appreciate a chance to hear more about the thoughts you have been developing (even if they are very rough) as related to the talk you gave in China last s

[Fis] Gyuri's Post . . .

Gyuri , thanks for your informative post (which Otto seems to agree wth?), The essence of what I now understand (I think) is that the amounts of mass involved in LHC experiments is so small that there is little-to-no chance of gravitational force (collapse) exceeding nuclear forces, such that ato

[Fis] Toward a Calculus of Redundancy

Hi Loet, The notion of a calculus of redundancy has much appeal, so I was looking more closely at the linked paper you posted. Still, I am not sure I follow what is presented (help?) . . . > Whereas the generation of Shannon-type information is coupled to the second law of thermodynamics < • The

[Fis] Curiouser and Curiouser . . .

Yes, Happy New Year to all! . . . But, I confess to some confusion. ● On seeing the offered New Years session, I wondered 'Why? Hasn't this issue long been overtaken by events?' Still I was happy to follow along and see if I might learn something new . . . but it seems my initial intuition was cor

[Fis] The Meaning of Meaning (or Information) . . .

A talk was recently posted where Searle and Floridi broach this matter, but from a foundational vista and framed in a context of artificial intelligence. For those who have not seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6o_7HeowY8 My own few exchanges with Searle on this issue, and on biological na

[Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?

Further to John's original note . . . and then to Pedro's further note > It would neatly apply to the living but also to the physical < This is, of course, a recurring issue for FIS – the matter of meaning . . . or even, what is "information?" When it comes to defining "meaning" (or information) I

[Fis] Scientific Communication

Hi Mark – I don't have much to add other than to say I reviewed your material and see the matter you address as important, and your presentation interesting. Otherwise, my own interests are typically much more reductive . . . and thus I have no more useful contribution to offer (sorry). Marcus ___

[Fis] Apology

Dear FIS members, Further to Krassimir's post of 23 July, I offer the FIS steering committee and FIS members my apologies for the strong language used in my closing notes on 15 July. Also, I apologize for my delay in responding to Krassimir's note as I had not seen his post (I was no longer re

[Fis] Closing Notes (A Priori Modeling)

Dear Pedro, Thank you for your surprisingly shameless and preemptive session closing. This spares you a need to explain “freewheeling speculation” and to convey actual intellectual content. I hoped for a better show of your intellectual bravura, or perhaps, that was it? Still, failure to incite m

Re: [Fis] Reply to John & Jerry (7 July Posts)

at 5:00 PM, Jerry LR Chandler < jerry_lr_chand...@icloud.com> wrote: > > Marcus, List: > > Comments inserted. And comment on your concluding comment. > > On Jul 9, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Marcus Abundis <55m...@gmail.com> wrote: > > JERRY (re 7 July post): > > Thanks

[Fis] Cultural Legacy Redux (Freewheeling Speculation)

Greetings to all, This A Priori Modeling session began Thursday, 16 June, and today marks four weeks. As “session leader” some meta-comments seem needed. In gauging our progress, a sense akin to that in Terry Deacon’s 30 Jan 2015 post comes to mind: > . . . I haven't felt that the specific com

[Fis] Notes on Pedro's 8 July Post

Dear Pedro, Thank you for the added Mechanics info., I will study the archives to see what else I find. > strictly remaining within Shannon's and anthropocentric < > discourse boundaries there is no way out. < • Still in “raging agreement” – thus my S-B-D (Shannon, Bateson, Darwin) model. I th

[Fis] Reply to John & Jerry (7 July Posts)

JOHN (re 7 July post): • Your abruptness is understandable. I have seen your “battle to take a view of information [as including] physical properties that has a dynamics of its own.” First, I opposed this “minority view”(?), so I was an opponent. But after investing time (stirred by your posts!) to

[Fis] Reply to Loet & Pedro (A Priori Modeling)

Hi Loet, Thank you for your Fri Jul 1 post: > to define information as “a difference which makes a < > difference”. . both differences have to be specified.< > Differences(1) can make a difference(2) for a system of < > reference (receiver). < • This is surely correct! This also aligns with wha

[Fis] Black Hole Notes (reply to John & Krassimir)

John – thank you for the intriguing article on the back hole information paradox. But I was surprised you saw Krassimir's note as insulting that at "the same time he/she has no [idea] what is 'information'”. This caused me to take a closer look at the article, which seemed to affirm Krassimis's vie

[Fis] Reply to Alex (A Priori Modeling)

Hi Alex, I am reviewing FIS posts from the last months – earlier, I was traveling. I was also at the TSC conference, so it is a shame we did not meet and chat (I presented a workshop with the guys from Google on Quantum Computing and AI). It was also nice to see Søren there. On your note to Pe

[Fis] [SPAM] Reply to Pedro (Shannonian Mechanics? – REPOST)

This is a repost of the note erroneously marked as SPAM by the list server. == Dear Pedro, thank you for your excellent post. Oddly, I have the feeling you think that you and I differ, but I saw little to disagree with in your note. As with Loet(?), I believe that *for now* I simply focus on a

[Fis] [SPAM] Shannonian Mechanics?

Dear Pedro, thank you for your excellent post. Oddly, I have the feeling you think that you and I differ, but I saw little to disagree with in your note. As with Loet(?), I believe that *for now* I simply focus on a different level. > the limits of the received Shannonian approach and < > the (na

[Fis] Reply 2 to Michel (A Priori Modeling)

In an offline exchange, Michel asks some questions (on my reply to Annette), summarized below. === > Your "material variation" seems identical to "spatial < > structure" which is classically used in informational < > ecology. Why not ? < • “Why not?“ what? I am unsure of what you are asking. In gen

[Fis] _ Reply to Loet (A Priori Modeling)

Dear Loet, I hoped to reply to your posts sooner as of all the voices on FIS I often sense a general kinship with your views. But I also confess I have difficulty in precisely grasping your views – the reason for my delay. >[while Shannon’s] concept of information (uncertainty) < > is counter

[Fis] Reply to Emanuel (A Prioro Modeling)

Dear Emanuel – thank you for your opinions and judgements. > The video . . . looks great < • Given what follows, I am unsure of how to view this note. > I asked you to provide me with a printed version . . . < • I had no request and I offered nobody anything beside the introductory text and its at

[Fis] Reply to Pedro (A Priori Modeling)

Dear Pedro, Thank you for your note, and I look forward to hearing more as your thoughts ripen. To help stir your thoughts . . . re “missing agency . . . factually minimized under the form of constraints and uncertainty.“ I partly to agree with you, in that agency in not an initial focus

[Fis] _ Reply to Stan and Bob (& notes on Cultural Legacy)

Loet – thank you for this quote; I was thinking of almost the same, but enlarged: “The concept of information developed in this theory at first seems disappointing and bizarre— • disappointing because it has nothing to do with meaning, and • bizarre because it deals not with a single message [/mea

[Fis] _ Reply to Annette (A Priori Modeling)

In an online exchange, Annette raises a few points and questions that I summarize below. === > Please give me your basic definition of entropy < My short answer is that I define entropy as "material variation" of any type, as clarified in paper #2 and detailed starting on page 5 (actually named on

[Fis] Dropbox: Supplemental Files (A Priori Modeling)

Please use the Dropbox links below to access the supplemental files. paper #2 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38563719/Abundis-FIS-%232.pdf paper #3 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38563719/Abundis-FIS-%233.pdf paper #4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38563719/Abundis-FIS-%234.pdf A

[Fis] Supplemental Papers (A Priori Modeling)

At least one of you has reported problems with downloading the supplemental papers (#2, #3, #4). Please email me if you also have this problem. I will then email the papers directly to you, if you wish. Thank you. Marcus ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.u

[Fis] Reply to Michel (A Priori Modeling)

In an offline exchange, Michel asks for clarity on the relationship between Delta Z and Darwinism. === Hi Michel, As I noted to António, BY ITSELF, Delta Z does not address or even anticipate Darwinism. It merely presents “a ground” from which Darwinian events may later emerge and unfold. I t

[Fis] Reply to António (A Priori Modeling)

Hi António – thank you for your questions. I paraphrase your questions below and respond in the order as given: *• “How does a map constitute metadata?”* You immediately strike the key issue. Metadata is often known as “data ABOUT data.” We might simplify this to “ABOUT-ness.” Or, we might expand

[Fis] "A Priori" Modeling of Information

;higher-order" debate, re Deacon's [from IS4IS] "keeping our levels straight") I look forward to hearing your thoughts . . . Marcus Abundis-FIS.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

[Fis] _ Response to several commentators:

Hi Maxine, Thank you very much for your thoughtful response! (and Mark – thanks for another excellent post!) I now feel I have a better sense of what is being considered, although I confess I still struggle a bit with the language. You raise several points . . . > Bracketing is only the begi

[Fis] (no subject)

Hi Maxine, Thank you very much for your thoughtful response! (and Mark – thanks for another excellent post!) I now feel I have a better sense of what is being considered, although I confess I still struggle a bit with the language. You raise several points . . . > Bracketing is only the begi

[Fis] _ Just my two cents worth.

I agree with much of Jerry's note . . . although I remain very open to having those connections explored/detailed, even if they are not wholly reductive (as Jerry seems to wish?). I too, was especially wondering about the value in digging up old philosophical notions that have not incorporated mod

[Fis] Origin?

Dear Stanley & Loet, Gentlemen, when you speak of "origin" I am unsure of what *exactly* you have in mind. Is it the "origin of the capacity for movement" that you think about? The origin of life, itself, along with all its causal roles? Or? > Then, many of the living do not ‘move’. . . Plants

[Fis] _ Re: Closing Lecture

Hi Bob (U), Reading your (Tue Feb 2 21:18:25) note. > minority opinion among the FIS group . . . > believe that information possesses both epistemic and ontic features< I find myself wondering if there is a specific reason you believe this is a "minority opinion" rather than the exchanges reflecti

[Fis] Toyabe 2010 [ Information converted to energy ] / Van den > Broeck 2010 Thermodynamics of Information / Cartlidge 2010 Information > converted to energy

>From Terry's post on Mon Jan 18 00:27 > . . . relation between potential (micro)states of the system (signal, channel, > medium) under consideration and a constrained variant state . . . Seeing this note, and then closely rereading the OP – I have a hard time not “hearing echoes“ of coherence & d

[Fis] “Meaning“ versus Functional Significance

Further to John's post on Fri Jan 15 08:09: > Of course, if you think that information is always meaningful to some interpreter . . . > then the argument in the paper is a nonstarter. I confess this typified my own thinking until recently. To be clear, I have now moved firmly to John's camp. I

[Fis] Pecking Order . . .

Hi Howard, > the pecking order, in fact, can be traced back to hierarchies within atoms 380,000 years after > the big bang and to the hierarchies within galaxies and solar systems 400 million years after > the big bang. An assertion like this requires more explanation I think . . . I am still h

[Fis] January Lecture--Information and the Forces of History

Hi Pedro, Thank you for your well crafted (typical Pedro) synthesizing statement, it was a pleasure to read. Thanks also for the reminders of J. Diamonds work. It has been ages since I read it, but it was certainly a treasure (hmm, now where I put my copy . . . ) Your note: > Bob has drafted

[Fis] Forces of History

Hi Howard, > Social groups compete. They battle for pecking order position in a hierarchy of groups.< Your chicken example seemed to be talking about behavior WITHIN groups, where this (above) note seems to consider behavior BETWEEN groups – please clarify? You see them as the same? >From your br

[Fis] Analysis & Fundamentalism . . .

Moises – thanks much for this analysis. Yes, tagging by the author would be preferred, and even better if tagging was part of the posting process (but not available with the software used). Hi Mark, In the spirit of discussing the discussion (not sure how far we want to push this) . . . Re ". .

[Fis] Locality & Five Momenta . . .

Loet, thanks for your note (Sat Oct 24) . . . an interesting twist on things I had not been considering. John, re (Tue Oct 27) “rigorous connections using the entropy concept . . . most people don't understand entropy . . . So I haven't published” – This interests me, as my own work heads in a gen

[Fis] Five Momenta. Five Itineraries

Perdo – awesome post, great synthesis, thanks! Still, I do not share your (apparent?) skepticism on an eventual happy result – although said result is certainly not guaranteed. Hi Loet, First, thank you for your excellent post (Thu Oct 15 14:38:54) as it offered the insight I craved. > . . . "u

[Fis] Shannon-Weavers' Levels A, B, C.

;s sense of locality in with the notion of Levels A, B, C. Perhaps they are not specific enough in order to do so – not sure. [image: --] Marcus Abundis [image: http://]about.me/marcus.abundis <http://about.me/marcus.abundis?promo=email_sig> __

[Fis] Shannon-Weavers' Levels A, B, C.

. what would such an all inclusive list look like? Thanks! [image: --] Marcus Abundis [image: http://]about.me/marcus.abundis <http://about.me/marcus.abundis?promo=email_sig> ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

[Fis] Information and Locality, on the Introduction

I am catching up on the discussion as I have just recently returned . . . a quick note Steven to let you know I ESPECIALLY enjoyed the Kahn Academy video on SETI, where the work of Doyle and McCowen was discussed. I seem to recall Bateson also did some work with dolphins and language (in the same

[Fis] Thinking Out Loud – a “meaning (-ful/less) continuum”

ns is ever to be realized. As before, my thoughts for what they are worth – yours are appreciated in return. [image: --] Marcus Abundis [image: http://]about.me/marcus.abundis <http://about.me/marcus.abundis?promo=email_sig> ___ Fis maili

[Fis] It-from-Bit and information interpretation of QM

27;s "faint perfume of reductionism" . . . Not exactly sure how to take this – it sounds dismissive, is this meant to suggest that reductionism is, per se, bad and to be avoided? Is it all to be an "unexplainable mystery"? As I understand Terry's view (and my own) it is es

[Fis] It-from-Bit and information interpretation of QM

eaning" versus "meaningless" in the use of the term "information" is not resolved (for the group?) it seems hard (to me) to have truly meaningful exchanges . . . without having to put a "meaningful" or "meaningless" qualifier in front of "information

[Fis] It-from-Bit and the TAO

that notion to information . . . just don't see how that would fit. At best I would see an encounter with the Tao as an encounter with Kantian like noumena. My thoughts, for what they are worth . . . [image: --] Marcus Abundis [image: http://]about.me/marcus.abundis <http://about.me/ma

[Fis] Krassimir's Notes . . .

formation“ I think we are talking about wether “information“ is even definable. [image: --] Marcus Abundis [image: http://]about.me/marcus.abundis <http://about.me/marcus.abundis?promo=email_sig> ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://li

[Fis] It from Bit redux . . .

h from the start in agreeing the FIS group goals. [image: --] Marcus Abundis [image: http://]about.me/marcus.abundis <http://about.me/marcus.abundis?promo=email_sig> ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

Re: [Fis] It From Bit video

While the interviews on the video are interesting, in general, I also find them a bit annoying. I never hear "information" actually described in a specific way. They could as easily be discussing "raw data" as far as I can tell. For example, when is "meaning" associated with information (or data) a

[Fis] What are "information" and "science"?

?) "new info-reductionism, or explanatory monism" is to be actively attempted and explored here? As a new member, I simply wish to know what might be reasonably tolerated. Thanks to all for your earlier thoughts! [image: --] Marcus Abundis [image: http://]about.me/marcus.abundis <http:

[Fis] What are "information" and "science"?

in terms of "science," mostly because I am unclear on how the term "science" is being formally used here. Thoughts? [image: --] Marcus Abundis [image: http://]about.me/marcus.abundis <http://about.me/marcus.abundis?promo=email_sig> ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

[Fis] New Year Lecture – The Correct Level of Analysis?

Hi Terry – and “first-time greetings“ to FIS colleagues, First, Terry, thank you for your continued effort with this contentious topic. It is truly necessary and worthwhile “heavy lifting.“ Second, in reading all prior postings I am drawn to your 30 Jan. note: > . . . I haven't felt that the s

[Fis] New Year Lecture - redux

ary's notes in order to get unto speed. Thanks! Marcus Abundis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis