[Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
Hi, I'm looking for a developer who can help me get over the hump with animating and AC3d model. This model is of a human figure. It is a very basic/simple model, but unfortunately I don't have permission to openly share it. I can send someone a private copy though if there is someone willing to help me out. (Again, the model is nothing special, you guys would look at it and say we have better figures already in FlightGear, I just haven't been given permission to post it on the world wide web.) I'm getting hung up trying to find the correct x,y,z locations for limb animation. In flightgear, are the coordinates we specify as the center point of rotation global (i.e. relative to the whole model?) Or are they relative to the local coordinate system of the sub-component? Since this is a simple human figure, there is some cascading / grouping I want to maintain ... i.e. a shoulder rotation and then an elbow rotation. I looked at the Osprey and see that some really amazing cascading animations are definitely possible in FlightGear, I just haven't quite sorted out coordinate systems. Is there anyone with ac3d model animation experience who'd be willing to take a quick look at this and help nudge me in the right direction? Thanks in advance, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Return on Information: Google Enterprise Search pays you back Get the facts. http://p.sf.net/sfu/google-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 10:25 -0600, Curtis Olson wrote: Hi, I'm looking for a developer who can help me get over the hump with animating and AC3d model. This model is of a human figure. It is a very basic/simple model, but unfortunately I don't have permission to openly share it. I can send someone a private copy though if there is someone willing to help me out. (Again, the model is nothing special, you guys would look at it and say we have better figures already in FlightGear, I just haven't been given permission to post it on the world wide web.) I'm getting hung up trying to find the correct x,y,z locations for limb animation. In flightgear, are the coordinates we specify as the center point of rotation global (i.e. relative to the whole model?) Or are they relative to the local coordinate system of the sub-component? Since this is a simple human figure, there is some cascading / grouping I want to maintain ... i.e. a shoulder rotation and then an elbow rotation. Coordinates are in ac3d units centered about the origin of the model. I looked at the Osprey and see that some really amazing cascading animations are definitely possible in FlightGear, I just haven't quite sorted out coordinate systems. Is there anyone with ac3d model animation experience who'd be willing to take a quick look at this and help nudge me in the right direction? Thanks in advance, Curt. I will take a look and give you some hints, but won't be around my e-mail for the next 8 hours or so... Ron -- Return on Information: Google Enterprise Search pays you back Get the facts. http://p.sf.net/sfu/google-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 16:53 +, Ron Jensen wrote: Coordinates are in ac3d units centered about the origin of the model. Oh, and the coordinate system is slightly altered between ac3d and fg, too: AC3D FG X X (fwd/aft) Y Z (up/down) Z-Y (side) -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
Hi Ron, Can I send you a copy of the model? I'd really like to make some good forward progress this week, but it's not a drop everything and get it done today sort of thing. Hey, I really owe you a flightgear t-shirt or mug and if you help out on this, then doubly so ... I did make an attempt to extract the coordinate of the center of rotation using ac3d (I have a licensed copy here, not that I can do much with it) but what I read out of ac3d was clearly wrong when I tried to do an actual animation. Curt. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Ron Jensen w...@jentronics.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 16:53 +, Ron Jensen wrote: Coordinates are in ac3d units centered about the origin of the model. Oh, and the coordinate system is slightly altered between ac3d and fg, too: AC3D FG X X (fwd/aft) Y Z (up/down) Z-Y (side) -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
Ron Jensen wrote: Oh, and the coordinate system is slightly altered between ac3d and fg, one more thing I'd be _really_ happy to see 'fixed' ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
Hi Ron, Can I send you a copy of the model? I'd really like to make some good forward progress this week, but it's not a drop everything and get it done today sort of thing. Hey, I really owe you a flightgear t-shirt or mug and if you help out on this, then doubly so ... I did make an attempt to extract the coordinate of the center of rotation using ac3d (I have a licensed copy here, not that I can do much with it) but what I read out of ac3d was clearly wrong when I tried to do an actual animation. Oh, that's easy. - Load the model in AC3D - Switch to Vertex Mode (Press 'v' when mouse pointer is overhead one of the four views) - select the vertex that should act as the rotation center (or one of the two vertices that serve as the rotation axis) - Hit the '' arrow left to the move-to fields in the left pane This fills the location fields with the coordinates of the vertex. Use X as your x in your animation Use Y as your z in your animation use Z as your z in your animation, just flip the sign That's it. Torsten Curt. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Ron Jensen w...@jentronics.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 16:53 +, Ron Jensen wrote: Coordinates are in ac3d units centered about the origin of the model. Oh, and the coordinate system is slightly altered between ac3d and fg, too: AC3D FG X X (fwd/aft) Y Z (up/down) Z-Y (side) - - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
Hi, Have you looked at the Walker in bluebird? Each limb can be moved independently, and orchestrated into an animation of walking, etc. You could study the rotation points used there, if nothing else. Curtis Olson wrote: Hi, I'm looking for a developer who can help me get over the hump with animating and AC3d model. This model is of a human figure. In flightgear, are the coordinates we specify as the center point of rotation global (i.e. relative to the whole model?) Or are they relative to the local coordinate system of the sub-component? Since this is a simple human figure, there is some cascading / grouping I want to maintain ... i.e. a shoulder rotation and then an elbow rotation. Just keep the elbow a parent of the fore-arm and wrist, the shoulder a parent to the upper-arm and elbow, etc. walker.xml has the center of rotation points defined near the top, for each child limb as labeled. Stewart -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
Oh, and the coordinate system is slightly altered between ac3d and fg, Martin wrote: one more thing I'd be _really_ happy to see 'fixed' ;-) Isn't that a problem of AC3D? In Blender the .ac coordinate system is excactly the same as in FG... Or is it converted when the .ac file is imported/exported in/from Blender? Cheers, Gijs _ Alles over Windows http://www.windows.nl/About.aspx-- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
On Tuesday 15 Dec 2009, Curtis Olson wrote: Hi Ron, Can I send you a copy of the model? I'd really like to make some good forward progress this week, but it's not a drop everything and get it done today sort of thing. Hey, I really owe you a flightgear t-shirt or mug and if you help out on this, then doubly so ... I did make an attempt to extract the coordinate of the center of rotation using ac3d (I have a licensed copy here, not that I can do much with it) but what I read out of ac3d was clearly wrong when I tried to do an actual animation. Curt. Probably the most common use of hierarchical FG animations are in retractable landing gear, so looking at some of these might help. The coordinates you get from AC3D should be correct too, but as already mentioned, (and iirc) the Z and Y axis are swapped (and possibly the +/- signs too). A few things though: If the 'natural' orientation of the 3D model is towards you i.e. facing you, rotate it through 90 degrees so that it's sideways and its forwards/backwards orientation matches the normal FG font/back X-axis. The symmetry for the left/right limbs will then be the same as for FG aircraft and handled by +/- ve Y-axis values. While you're working on getting the animations right, temporarily bind your animation axis to your joystick axis instead of the real animation properties so that you can test the animation axis and rotations just by using your joystick e.g. for checking the arms, you could bind the upper arm to the pitch axis, the lower arm to the roll axis and the wrist to the rudder axis. As with the Visual Reference Point (VRP), it doesn't really matter where the origin actually is as long as everything matches up. However, as you're trying to animate a human body, I'd recommend setting the origin at the hips. If the model is 'standing' upon a ground plane centered at 0,0,0, move the entire 3D model down so that its hips are centered at 0,0,0 and then use 0,0,0 as your origin. This way you'll be able to rotate (bend) the upper body over without having to worry about counter rotating it's legs, or bring the legs up without worrying about the body moving. As long as you get the animation ordering correct, the arms will follow the shoulders when you bend the body over. Having shifted the entire body down to center the hips at 0,0,0, you'll then need a translation animation to move the entire model back up again afterwards, so that its standing on the ground once the individual parts of the model are animated correctly, of course. Actually, I used to find that getting the animation hierarchies correct wasn't always quite as intuitive as I would have expected, so if the hierarchies don't seem to be working correctly try re-ordering them in the animation file (you may even need to apply what you would expect to be a single 'top-level' animation, which you would expect to be able to apply just once to an entire 'group' of sub-objects, to every individual sub-object for it to work properly e.g. to shift the entire model up so that it stands back on the ground again instead of being embedded up to its hips, you may need to apply the vertical translation animation to each individual sub-object. However, I think that the 'group' animation type might help here - I think this may have come in after I did any animations, so I haven't ever used it, but do I recall seeing go by on the cvs update logs and remember thinking that it would help a lot - some of the current modellers should be able confirm this). Sadly, I'm afraid that I don't currently have a working FG or AC3D here atm, otherwise I'd have a go at it for you, but I'm sure someone else will be able to sort it out. LeeE -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Model animation help?
Gijs de Rooy wrote: Oh, and the coordinate system is slightly altered between ac3d and fg, Martin wrote: one more thing I'd be _really_ happy to see 'fixed' ;-) Isn't that a problem of AC3D? In Blender the .ac coordinate system is excactly the same as in FG... As far as I remember, the orientation of the coordinate system in FlightGear is a burden we've inherited from using the PLIB AC3D loader, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
