Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-04 Thread Sven Barth
Am 04.11.2011 12:50, schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: But then I wonder why you *ever* want to convert TSystemTime into TDateTime, when it will be converted back again in the date/time formatting (and other) procedures. It would be much faster to display or write out a time stamp, based directly on

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-04 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Sven Barth schrieb: var st: TSystemTime; dt: TDateTime; begin GetLocalTime(st); dt := SystemTimeToDateTime(st); Writeln(FormatDateTime('c', dt)); GetSystemTime(st); dt := SystemTimeToDateTime(st); Writeln(FormatDateTime('c', dt)); Readln; end. === source end === As long as yo

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-04 Thread Sven Barth
Am 04.11.2011 11:28, schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: Sven Barth schrieb: According to Delphi help a TDateTime of 0.0 represents 12/30/1899 12:00 am, while Wikipedia states "start counting the seconds from the Unix epoch of 1970-01-01T00:00:00 UTC". You are aware that the definition of TDateTime

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-04 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Sven Barth schrieb: According to Delphi help a TDateTime of 0.0 represents 12/30/1899 12:00 am, while Wikipedia states "start counting the seconds from the Unix epoch of 1970-01-01T00:00:00 UTC". You are aware that the definition of TDateTime and that of the Unix timestamp are not supposed to

Re: RE : [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-04 Thread Sven Barth
Am 04.11.2011 07:55, schrieb zeljko: But this is on windows ? On linux it does not work without re-reading tzdata. Yes, this is Windows only. It was meant as a prove that a timezone change does influence running processes as well (and not only new ones as that link stated). Regards, Sven __

Re: RE : [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread zeljko
On Thursday 03 of November 2011 21:30:19 Sven Barth wrote: > Am 02.11.2011 19:25, schrieb Ludo Brands: > > Apparently not everything is that transparent under windows: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724944%28v=vs.8 > > 5%2 9.aspx > > > > "To inform Explorer that the

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Pete Cervasio
On Thursday, November 03, 2011 03:11:37 pm Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > Pete Cervasio schrieb: > > > Splitting the TDateTime into year, month etc. is done by a > > > DecodeDate... > > > > > > function, that *assumes* that TDateTime contains a local time. When > > > you > > > > > > feed it

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Sven Barth
Am 03.11.2011 17:38, schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: Sven Barth schrieb: FPC's Now on Windows uses GetLocalTime as well. For its implementation please take a look here: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/dll/win32/kernel32/client/time.c?revision=52912&view=markup (line 277ff) That

Re: RE : [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Sven Barth
Am 02.11.2011 19:25, schrieb Ludo Brands: Apparently not everything is that transparent under windows: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724944%28v=vs.85%2 9.aspx "To inform Explorer that the time zone has changed, send the WM_SETTINGCHANGE message." WM_SETTINGCHANGE s

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Sven Barth
Am 03.11.2011 21:11, schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: Pete Cervasio schrieb: > Splitting the TDateTime into year, month etc. is done by a DecodeDate... > function, that *assumes* that TDateTime contains a local time. When you > feed it an UTC time, the result is unusable. What? How does it assu

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Pete Cervasio schrieb: > Splitting the TDateTime into year, month etc. is done by a DecodeDate... > function, that *assumes* that TDateTime contains a local time. When you > feed it an UTC time, the result is unusable. What? How does it assume it's in local time? It assumes it has received

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Pete Cervasio
On Thursday, November 03, 2011 11:03:36 am Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > Sven Barth schrieb: > > And functions like DateTimeToStr don't care whether a time value is > > local or UTC and in my opinion they even MUST NOT. > > Splitting the TDateTime into year, month etc. is done by a DecodeDate... >

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Vinzent Höfler
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:38:01 +0100, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: FPC's Now on Windows uses GetLocalTime as well. For its implementation please take a look here: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/dll/win32/kernel32/client/time.c?revision=52912&view=markup (line 277ff) That

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Sven Barth schrieb: FPC's Now on Windows uses GetLocalTime as well. For its implementation please take a look here: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/dll/win32/kernel32/client/time.c?revision=52912&view=markup (line 277ff) That code doesn't make sense, without additional infor

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Sven Barth schrieb: Am 03.11.2011 02:39, schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: IMO we have to face a problem very similar to Ansi/UTF-8/16: A TDateTime variable can contain local time in a number of timezones (Ansi), or UTC values (UTF), which must be interpreted accordingly, e.g. in DateTimeToStr(). W

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Sven Barth
Am 03.11.2011 03:12, schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: Also note that on platforms like Windows this would be a unnecessary call as there the current(!) timezone bias is located in a shared memory area which is mapped into each process by the kernel. I don't think that this really is how Windows wo

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Sven Barth
Am 03.11.2011 02:39, schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: IMO we have to face a problem very similar to Ansi/UTF-8/16: A TDateTime variable can contain local time in a number of timezones (Ansi), or UTC values (UTF), which must be interpreted accordingly, e.g. in DateTimeToStr(). When Delphi compatible

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Martin Schreiber
On Thursday 03 November 2011 09.08:35 zeljko wrote: > > That's pretty big difference. Can you compare NowReal() from attached > program with your functions ? > Linux FPC Now() MSEgui nowutc() MSEgui nowlocal() NowReal() 10.28s 3.45s 3.55s 9.86s Martin ___

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread zeljko
On Thursday 03 of November 2011 08:43:55 Martin Schreiber wrote: > On Thursday 03 November 2011 08.04:17 Martin Schreiber wrote: > > On Thursday 03 November 2011 07.44:47 zeljko wrote: > > > > The results with 10'000'000 calls: > > > > > > > > FPC Now() MSEgui nowutc() MSEgui nowlocal() > > > > >

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Paul Ishenin
03.11.2011 15:29, zeljko wrote: Maybe it's not problem *now*, but looking into mailing list ppl have a lot of problems, so I think that fear is only problem (at least for me). People mostly expressed their FUD although there were few problems and there are some. But why do you think they sh

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Martin Schreiber
On Thursday 03 November 2011 08.04:17 Martin Schreiber wrote: > On Thursday 03 November 2011 07.44:47 zeljko wrote: > > > The results with 10'000'000 calls: > > > > > > FPC Now() MSEgui nowutc() MSEgui nowlocal() > > > > > > Linux > > > > > > 15.29s 3.39s 3.57s > > > > >

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread zeljko
On Thursday 03 of November 2011 08:11:16 Paul Ishenin wrote: > 03.11.2011 15:04, Martin Schreiber wrote: > > No, I can not use trunk because of cpstrnew. I'll try the file Michael > > sent. > > If it is not difficult please explain exact problems with cpstrnew you > have in a separate thread. It i

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Martin Schreiber
On Thursday 03 November 2011 08.11:16 Paul Ishenin wrote: > 03.11.2011 15:04, Martin Schreiber wrote: > > No, I can not use trunk because of cpstrnew. I'll try the file Michael > > sent. > > If it is not difficult please explain exact problems with cpstrnew you > have in a separate thread. It is i

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-03 Thread Paul Ishenin
03.11.2011 15:04, Martin Schreiber wrote: No, I can not use trunk because of cpstrnew. I'll try the file Michael sent. If it is not difficult please explain exact problems with cpstrnew you have in a separate thread. It is important to know for me what problems do you have with the new ansis

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Martin Schreiber
On Thursday 03 November 2011 07.44:47 zeljko wrote: > > > > The results with 10'000'000 calls: > > > > FPC Now() MSEgui nowutc() MSEgui nowlocal() > > > > Linux > > > > 15.29s 3.39s 3.57s > > > > Windows > > > > 10.00s 1.22s 1.37s > > Have you

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread zeljko
On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 23:45:53 Martin Schreiber wrote: > On Wednesday 02 November 2011 17.43:56 Martin Schreiber wrote: > > On Wednesday 02 November 2011 17.13:49 Jonas Maebe wrote: > > > Yes, the result slower, but it's also correct (as in "it makes sure > > > that the actual local time

Re: RE : [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Ludo Brands schrieb: debated). Also note that on platforms like Windows this would be a unnecessary call as there the current(!) timezone bias is located in a shared memory area which is mapped into each process by the kernel. Apparently not everything is that transparent under windows: ht

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Vinzent Höfler schrieb: On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:35:30 +0100, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: Maybe that would be something interresting to add. Programs that want to measure time differences could use it instead of hacking Now. Well, all what's needed is to differentiate between a politic

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Sven Barth schrieb: The solution mentioned above is a workaround for 2.4 where no fix is in place. Newer versions of FPC (maybe even 2.6, I don't know about that) will get an improved/fixed version of Now (how exactly seems to still be debated). ACK Also note that on platforms like Windows

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Luca Olivetti schrieb: Al 02/11/11 09:31, En/na Mark Morgan Lloyd ha escrit: But even in this case, what should happen if the user (or NTP) explicitly changes the system clock? Ultimately, what matters for relative timing is ticks-since-boot. From the link posted before: http://www.kerne

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Martin Schreiber
On Wednesday 02 November 2011 17.43:56 Martin Schreiber wrote: > On Wednesday 02 November 2011 17.13:49 Jonas Maebe wrote: > > Yes, the result slower, but it's also correct (as in "it makes sure > > that the actual local time is returned"). Just like all UTF-16 code in > > the RTL is slower than wh

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Vinzent Höfler
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:35:30 +0100, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: Maybe that would be something interresting to add. Programs that want to measure time differences could use it instead of hacking Now. Well, all what's needed is to differentiate between a political-time and a monotonic/

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Luca Olivetti
Al 02/11/11 09:31, En/na Mark Morgan Lloyd ha escrit: > But even in this case, what should happen if the user (or NTP) explicitly > changes the system clock? Ultimately, what matters for relative timing is > ticks-since-boot. >From the link posted before: http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/on

RE : [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Ludo Brands
> debated). Also note that on platforms like Windows this would be a > unnecessary call as there the current(!) timezone bias is > located in a > shared memory area which is mapped into each process by the kernel. > Apparently not everything is that transparent under windows: http://msdn.micr

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Sven Barth
Am 02.11.2011 17:33, schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: michael.vancann...@wisa.be schrieb: The call will not be merged. Instead, you can just add ReadTimezoneFile(GetTimezoneFile); GetLocalTimezone(fptime); to your code (and add units 'unix' and 'baseunix'). What will happen if these are called

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
michael.vancann...@wisa.be schrieb: The call will not be merged. Instead, you can just add ReadTimezoneFile(GetTimezoneFile); GetLocalTimezone(fptime); to your code (and add units 'unix' and 'baseunix'). What will happen if these are called on other platforms, which don't have timezone fi

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Martin Schreiber
On Wednesday 02 November 2011 17.46:07 Jonas Maebe wrote: > Martin Schreiber wrote on Wed, 02 Nov 2011: > > On Wednesday 02 November 2011 17.13:49 Jonas Maebe wrote: > >> Just like all UTF-16 code in > >> the RTL is slower than what Martin Schreiber would like, and we didn't > >> change it to UCS-2

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Jonas Maebe
Martin Schreiber wrote on Wed, 02 Nov 2011: On Wednesday 02 November 2011 17.13:49 Jonas Maebe wrote: Just like all UTF-16 code in the RTL is slower than what Martin Schreiber would like, and we didn't change it to UCS-2 when he asked to do so for speed reasons. ??? I never asked this. htt

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Martin Schreiber
On Wednesday 02 November 2011 17.13:49 Jonas Maebe wrote: > Yes, the result slower, but it's also correct (as in "it makes sure > that the actual local time is returned"). Just like all UTF-16 code in > the RTL is slower than what Martin Schreiber would like, and we didn't > change it to UCS-2 whe

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Jonas Maebe
Marco van de Voort wrote on Wed, 02 Nov 2011: In our previous episode, Jonas Maebe said: Anyway: a function that reports the local time is simply the wrong tool for the job if you need a "mostly" monotonic timer that you can query at a high frequency. It may work (and apparently it does for yo

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Thaddy
Gentlemen, gentlemen, Stop this. Every proper software clock == UTC, not local time. The local time should always be on read time, on the fly. Thaddy On 2-11-2011 11:48, Marco van de Voort wrote: In our previous episode, Jonas Maebe said: Anyway: a function that reports the local time is

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread zeljko
On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 16:12:49 you wrote: > On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: > > On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 15:47:46 you wrote: > >> On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: > >>> On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 14:53:05 you wrote: > You must do also a localtime_r after this call.

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread michael . vancanneyt
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 15:47:46 mich...@freepascal.org wrote: Ok, let's finish this thread. 1.Now() works as it is - it's even twice faster now since extra fptime call is avoided (so an + from this thread) :) 2.Programmer (me in this example) need

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread zeljko
On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 15:47:46 mich...@freepascal.org wrote: Ok, let's finish this thread. 1.Now() works as it is - it's even twice faster now since extra fptime call is avoided (so an + from this thread) :) 2.Programmer (me in this example) need something to re-read timezone, so Now

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread zeljko
On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 15:47:46 you wrote: > On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: > > On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 14:53:05 you wrote: > >> You must do also a localtime_r after this call. > >> clock_gettime returns the same time as gettimeofday. > > > > But point IS in comparing clock_g

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread michael
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 14:53:05 you wrote: You must do also a localtime_r after this call. clock_gettime returns the same time as gettimeofday. But point IS in comparing clock_gettime() vs. gettimeofday() which is used by fpgettimeofday(). I don'

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread zeljko
On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 14:55:36 michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: > On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: > >> On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 11:23:10 michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: > >>> On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, Jonas Maebe wrote: >

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Henry Vermaak
On 02/11/11 13:38, zeljko wrote: Please see results about Now() and something that I've mentioned about deprecitation of gettimeofday().According to this test, current fpgettimeofday() is crap when compared with clock_gettime() (kernel) or libc calls (I've copied scenario from kylix sysutils).

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread michael . vancanneyt
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 11:23:10 michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, Jonas Maebe wrote: Marco van de Voort wrote on Wed, 02 Nov 2011: The point was just some encouragement

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread michael . vancanneyt
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 11:23:10 michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, Jonas Maebe wrote: Marco van de Voort wrote on Wed, 02 Nov 2011: The point was just some encouragement to look further than the immediate need though, and keep t

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread zeljko
On Wednesday 02 of November 2011 11:23:10 michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: > On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, Jonas Maebe wrote: > > Marco van de Voort wrote on Wed, 02 Nov 2011: > >> The point was just some encouragement to look further than the immediate > >> need though, and keep the time call relatively ch

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Mark Morgan Lloyd
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: Not entirely related to the discussion, but I don't see that at all. There is a reason why libc has monotonous time functions. And I think we should have too: Now() -> Like Michael proposed. Impleme

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Jonas Maebe said: > Anyway: a function that reports the local time is simply > the wrong tool for the job if you need a "mostly" monotonic timer that > you can query at a high frequency. It may work (and apparently it does > for you), but instating a plugin architect

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread michael . vancanneyt
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011, Jonas Maebe wrote: Marco van de Voort wrote on Wed, 02 Nov 2011: The point was just some encouragement to look further than the immediate need though, and keep the time call relatively cheap. That doesn't exclude being correct, it just means a more elaborate implementatio

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Jonas Maebe
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote on Wed, 02 Nov 2011: Now() -> Like Michael proposed. Implemented with precision, but with a switch for existing code bases to hack it into being fast. I don't think it is appropriate to add a hack to the RTL for a case like this. No major incompatibility wit

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Jonas Maebe
Marco van de Voort wrote on Wed, 02 Nov 2011: The point was just some encouragement to look further than the immediate need though, and keep the time call relatively cheap. That doesn't exclude being correct, it just means a more elaborate implementation. I do not think that reporting the time

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: > Not entirely related to the discussion, but I don't see that at all.  There > is a reason why libc has monotonous time functions. And I think we should have too: Now() -> Like Michael proposed. Implemented with precision, but with a swi

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Sven Barth
Am 01.11.2011 22:49, schrieb Henry Vermaak: On 1 November 2011 21:07, Marco van de Voort wrote: In our previous episode, Henry Vermaak said: Also, how cheap is this on Windows? Presumably they will also have to deal with potential system services running while updates fix daylight saving time

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Henry Vermaak
On 01/11/11 22:01, Marco van de Voort wrote: But do you agree that _when_ it happens, the directory is rescanned in the same thread as the gettime() call, outside programmer's control? And that that breaks code for people that don't expect the runtime to access the harddisk without they explicite

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Tomas Hajny said: > I don't get the relation of plugins to the original problem. You don't > need any libc (c*) to solve that problem, It does if the solution to monitor filesystem change does, or if you need or want to use a thread for that. So it is not for the time fun

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Tomas Hajny
On Wed, November 2, 2011 09:56, Marco van de Voort wrote: . . > Anyway, there are other reasons to go for a plugin style for this, namely > that you can't predict what libs a certain *nix might need to effectively > monitor the mutation of files. (e.g. that allows to do it in a thread) > > But to

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Jonas Maebe said: > > > That is an symmetrical argument. I could argue exactly the same about > > correctness. I don't need it, so please don't force it on all users. > > I suppose you meant that what is correct and what not depends on the > specification, rather than tha

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2 November 2011 10:31, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote: > But even in this case, what should happen if the user (or NTP) explicitly > changes the system clock? NTP client service doesn't explicitly change the system time in one shot. This could cause all kinds of problems. Instead they slow down or sp

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Mark Morgan Lloyd
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: One more idea: Do we already have something like NowUTC ? Just like Now, but in UTC. Maybe that would be something interresting to add. Programs that want to measure time differences could use it instead of hacking Now. NowUTC seams to be much more appropriate

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-02 Thread Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
One more idea: Do we already have something like NowUTC ? Just like Now, but in UTC. Maybe that would be something interresting to add. Programs that want to measure time differences could use it instead of hacking Now. NowUTC seams to be much more appropriate for time differences then Now, and it

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Jonas Maebe
On 01 Nov 2011, at 23:01, Marco van de Voort wrote: > That is an symmetrical argument. I could argue exactly the same about > correctness. I don't need it, so please don't force it on all users. I suppose you meant that what is correct and what not depends on the specification, rather than than

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Henry Vermaak said: > >> saving time changes? ?If they don't use shared memory for this, I'd > >> wager that it's just as slow as libc localtime. > > > > I doubt Windows has a _file_ based concept of timezone. > > Explain? It has an in memory concept of timezone, and does

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Henry Vermaak
On 1 November 2011 21:07, Marco van de Voort wrote: > In our previous episode, Henry Vermaak said: >> Also, how cheap is this on Windows?  Presumably they will also have to >> deal with potential system services running while updates fix daylight >> saving time changes?  If they don't use shared m

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Sven Barth
On 01.11.2011 14:03, Henry Vermaak wrote: Also, how cheap is this on Windows? Presumably they will also have to deal with potential system services running while updates fix daylight saving time changes? If they don't use shared memory for this, I'd wager that it's just as slow as libc localtime.

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Henry Vermaak said: > Also, how cheap is this on Windows? Presumably they will also have to > deal with potential system services running while updates fix daylight > saving time changes? If they don't use shared memory for this, I'd > wager that it's just as slow as l

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread zeljko
On Tuesday 01 of November 2011 19:32:30 you wrote: > zeljko schrieb: > > Now() must return exactly what it's name says. Anything <> of that is > > bug. > > Okay, so what's the *exact* definition of Now()? > > Is a local calendar system taken into account? It should return exactly same informatio

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread zeljko
On Tuesday 01 of November 2011 19:18:38 you wrote: > It will be something like that, yes. I was thinking of introducing a > > CheckRefreshTZInfoInterval: integer; > > -1 : never check for refresh (current behaviour) > 0 : refresh on each call (like LibC, will be new default) > > >0 : Only refr

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Michael Van Canneyt
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: > We'll simply need to store the next moment when the DST correction changes, > compare the result of gettimeofday with that and re-base the time > calculation. If we decide to add some check for the timestamp of the > timezone file - that would make Date

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread zeljko
On Tuesday 01 of November 2011 15:30:43 Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > zeljko schrieb: > > Am I the only one who produces 24/7 services with fpc in the world (and > > around) ? ;) > > You seem to be the only one who provides such services based on *local* > time, with 23..25 hours per day ;-) Luck

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
zeljko schrieb: Am I the only one who produces 24/7 services with fpc in the world (and around) ? ;) You seem to be the only one who provides such services based on *local* time, with 23..25 hours per day ;-) DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-d

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho schrieb: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: This is something that normally doesn't happen unless you move your system from one timezone to another or during system setup In many countries the time zone changes 2 times a year because of the

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Michael Van Canneyt schrieb: The timezone itself does not change, unless you physically move the machine from, say, Belgium to Russia. Then we should include a GPS query, for the actual geographic position, and adjust the local time accordingly ;-) DoDi

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich
Michael Van Canneyt schrieb: We'll simply need to store the next moment when the DST correction changes, compare the result of gettimeofday with that and re-base the time calculation. If we decide to add some check for the timestamp of the timezone file - that would make Date(), Time() and Now

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Thaddy
On 1-11-2011 15:07, Jonas Maebe wrote: On 01 Nov 2011, at 12:30, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: The timezone itself does not change, unless you physically move the machine from, say, Belgium to Russia. This happens regularly with laptops (and at least I almost never shut down my laptop when trav

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Jonas Maebe
On 01 Nov 2011, at 12:30, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > The timezone itself does not change, unless you physically move the machine > from, say, Belgium to Russia. This happens regularly with laptops (and at least I almost never shut down my laptop when traveling, I just let it hibernate so pro

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread zeljko
On Tuesday 01 of November 2011 13:51:19 Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > 1. First off, we must correctly take into account DST. That should fix > Zejlko's problem. Am I the only one who produces 24/7 services with fpc in the world (and around) ? ;) zeljko

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Henry Vermaak
On 01/11/11 12:51, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Henry Vermaak wrote: If you don't do this, daemons that were started before e.g. a daylight savings update will report the wrong time after the update. Rather solve this correctly than take short cuts because you want to keep the

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread zeljko
> We'll simply need to store the next moment when the DST correction changes, > compare the result of gettimeofday with that and re-base the time > calculation. If we decide to add some check for the timestamp of the > timezone file - that would make Date(), Time() and Now() VERY expensive > opera

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Tomas Hajny
On Tue, November 1, 2011 13:40, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Marco van de Voort wrote: >> In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: >>> >>> Correct (I had checked as well), but the only purpose that serves >>> is to check whether the system timezone info has changed. >>

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Michael Van Canneyt
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Tomas Hajny wrote: On Tue, November 1, 2011 12:49, Marco van de Voort wrote: In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: Correct (I had checked as well), but the only purpose that serves is to check whether the system timezone info has changed. This is something

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Michael Van Canneyt
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Henry Vermaak wrote: On 01/11/11 11:08, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Henry Vermaak wrote: On 01/11/11 10:30, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: We'll simply need to store the next moment when the DST correction changes, compare the result of gettimeofday wit

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Michael Van Canneyt
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Marco van de Voort wrote: In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: Correct (I had checked as well), but the only purpose that serves is to check whether the system timezone info has changed. This is something that normally doesn't happen unless you move your sy

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Tomas Hajny
On Tue, November 1, 2011 12:49, Marco van de Voort wrote: > In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: >> >> Correct (I had checked as well), but the only purpose that serves >> is to check whether the system timezone info has changed. >> >> This is something that normally doesn't happen un

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread zeljko
On Tuesday 01 of November 2011 11:25:22 Henry Vermaak wrote: > On 01/11/11 10:01, Sven Barth wrote: > > On 01.11.2011 09:41, zeljko wrote: > >> I don't believe that kernel have only gettimeofday() and that kernel > >> don't know accurate datetime. There's more functions in kernel which can > >> giv

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: > > Correct (I had checked as well), but the only purpose that serves > is to check whether the system timezone info has changed. > > This is something that normally doesn't happen unless you move your > system from one timezone to another or d

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Henry Vermaak
On 01/11/11 11:08, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Henry Vermaak wrote: On 01/11/11 10:30, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: We'll simply need to store the next moment when the DST correction changes, compare the result of gettimeofday with that and re-base the time calculation. If w

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Michael Van Canneyt
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: This is something that normally doesn't happen unless you move your system from one timezone to another or during system setup In many countries the time zone changes 2 times

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > This is something that normally doesn't happen unless you move your system > from one timezone to another or during system setup In many countries the time zone changes 2 times a year because of the summer time. -- Felipe Monteiro de

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Michael Van Canneyt
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Henry Vermaak wrote: On 01/11/11 10:30, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: We'll simply need to store the next moment when the DST correction changes, compare the result of gettimeofday with that and re-base the time calculation. If we decide to add some check for the timestamp of

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Henry Vermaak
On 01/11/11 10:30, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: We'll simply need to store the next moment when the DST correction changes, compare the result of gettimeofday with that and re-base the time calculation. If we decide to add some check for the timestamp of the timezone file - that would make Date(),

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Tomas Hajny
On Tue, November 1, 2011 11:36, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: > One idea: In Now if you read the timezones, then store the value of > Now. In subsequent calls check if 1 hour has passed since the last > time the timezones were checked. If yes, then update the timezones and > store this new bas

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Sven Barth
On 01.11.2011 11:25, Henry Vermaak wrote: On 01/11/11 10:01, Sven Barth wrote: On 01.11.2011 09:41, zeljko wrote: I don't believe that kernel have only gettimeofday() and that kernel don't know accurate datetime. There's more functions in kernel which can give you accurate result. gettimeofday(

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
One idea: In Now if you read the timezones, then store the value of Now. In subsequent calls check if 1 hour has passed since the last time the timezones were checked. If yes, then update the timezones and store this new base value of Now. This makes a compromise between speed and correctnees. It

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Michael Van Canneyt
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, zeljko wrote: On Tuesday 01 of November 2011 11:01:32 Sven Barth wrote: > On 01.11.2011 09:41, zeljko wrote: > > I don't believe that kernel have only gettimeofday() and that kernel > > don't know accurate datetime. There's more functions in kernel which can > > give y

Re: [fpc-devel] Problem with Now() and time changed by ntpd

2011-11-01 Thread Henry Vermaak
On 01/11/11 10:01, Sven Barth wrote: On 01.11.2011 09:41, zeljko wrote: I don't believe that kernel have only gettimeofday() and that kernel don't know accurate datetime. There's more functions in kernel which can give you accurate result. gettimeofday() is deprecated, so maybe that's main reaso

  1   2   >