RE: Grayscale PDFs
At 06:18 -0800 28/11/06, Dov Isaacs wrote: I think that you are confusing two separate facilities, the Ink Manager and the Convert Colors facility. You're right, I was. I appreciate that this has become an Acrobat discussion, but the source came from FrameMaker. Here's an interesting thing. I revisited the 8 Pro demo, and opened a Mac-originated pre-press PDF in it. The first thing I noticed was that the output preview was showing a 20% grey process plate that should not exist, and which is most definitely not shown when the same PDF is viewed in Acrobat Pro 6 on Mac. Next, I tried out the color remapping. This PDF has three different Pantones, 201CVU, 201C and 201U, while the C, M and Y channels have no content. Leaving the process plates alone, I used the 'convert color' feature to map 201CVU and 201C both to 201U. At the end of the process, an imported graphic that had previously shown only spot Pantone 201C and black was showing C, M and Y content. All a bit confusing, but the color remapping feature does indeed seem to work. The extraneous 20% process gray worries me, though. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Grayscale PDFs
At 06:18 -0800 28/11/06, Dov Isaacs wrote: >I think that you are confusing two separate facilities, the "Ink Manager" and >the "Convert Colors" facility. You're right, I was. I appreciate that this has become an Acrobat discussion, but the source came from FrameMaker. Here's an interesting thing. I revisited the 8 Pro demo, and opened a Mac-originated pre-press PDF in it. The first thing I noticed was that the output preview was showing a 20% grey process plate that should not exist, and which is most definitely not shown when the same PDF is viewed in Acrobat Pro 6 on Mac. Next, I tried out the color remapping. This PDF has three different Pantones, 201CVU, 201C and 201U, while the C, M and Y channels have no content. Leaving the process plates alone, I used the 'convert color' feature to map 201CVU and 201C both to 201U. At the end of the process, an imported graphic that had previously shown only spot Pantone 201C and black was showing C, M and Y content. All a bit confusing, but the color remapping feature does indeed seem to work. The extraneous 20% process gray worries me, though. -- Steve
RE: Grayscale PDFs
At 12:22 -0800 27/11/06, Dov Isaacs wrote: A more inclusive fix would be to not use the driver option but to use the color conversion features of Acrobat 7 Pro or Acrobat 8 Pro. This is topical, as I've just trialled 8 Pro for a very similar reason. It is my understanding that some 'advanced' features such as ink aliasing work only for print/press/RIP output from Acrobat 8 Pro: that is, they cannot be used to edit a PDF so that colors are permanently remapped. Adobe UK support confirmed this. However, I'm still slightly surprised, as it means that the features are only of use to print shops, and not to, say, those who supply pre-press PDFs. Perhaps Dov could confirm this? -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Grayscale PDFs
Steve, I think that you are confusing two separate facilities, the Ink Manager and the Convert Colors facility. The Ink Manager can be used to alias spot colors and/or to cause spot colors to be printed as process. Given that FrameMaker Windows has no ability to natively output spot colors :-( the Ink Manager is somewhat useless with regards to FrameMaker output. And yes, settings done with the Ink Manager for a PDF file are not persistent (they don't stay with the PDF file if it is saved). They exist only as long as the PDF file is open. The Convert Colors facility is a totally separate beast. It allows colors to be actually changed such as RGB to CMYK using ICC profiles (not the dumb PostScript RGB to CMYK conversion) or RGB (or CMYK) to grayscale. The changes made with this facility are preserved if you then save the PDF file. Adobe UK Support either didn't understand what you were trying to find out or gave you the wrong answer or both. Sorry! - Dov -Original Message- From: Steve Rickaby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:54 AM To: Dov Isaacs Cc: framers@FrameUsers.com Subject: RE: Grayscale PDFs At 12:22 -0800 27/11/06, Dov Isaacs wrote: A more inclusive fix would be to not use the driver option but to use the color conversion features of Acrobat 7 Pro or Acrobat 8 Pro. This is topical, as I've just trialled 8 Pro for a very similar reason. It is my understanding that some 'advanced' features such as ink aliasing work only for print/press/RIP output from Acrobat 8 Pro: that is, they cannot be used to edit a PDF so that colors are permanently remapped. Adobe UK support confirmed this. However, I'm still slightly surprised, as it means that the features are only of use to print shops, and not to, say, those who supply pre-press PDFs. Perhaps Dov could confirm this? -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Grayscale PDFs
At 06:18 -0800 28/11/06, Dov Isaacs wrote: Steve, I think that you are confusing two separate facilities, the Ink Manager and the Convert Colors facility. That is quite possible: I only had a short time to try out Acrobat 8 Pro. Another FrameUsers contributor had pointed me at the ink manager after seeing n 8 Pro demo, which is why I was concentrating on it. The Ink Manager can be used to alias spot colors and/or to cause spot colors to be printed as process. Given that FrameMaker Windows has no ability to natively output spot colors :-( the Ink Manager is somewhat useless with regards to FrameMaker output. But not on Mac, perhaps? ;-) And yes, settings done with the Ink Manager for a PDF file are not persistent (they don't stay with the PDF file if it is saved). They exist only as long as the PDF file is open. Thanks for the confirmation. The Convert Colors facility is a totally separate beast. It allows colors to be actually changed such as RGB to CMYK using ICC profiles (not the dumb PostScript RGB to CMYK conversion) or RGB (or CMYK) to grayscale. The changes made with this facility are preserved if you then save the PDF file. Right. I shall return to the demo version and work some more with it. Adobe UK Support either didn't understand what you were trying to find out or gave you the wrong answer or both. Sorry! No problem. It's really quite hard to get complex technical issues over in a short phone call, especially when you're discussing completely new features in an application, and you're both under pressure. I could tell that the guy at the other end was thrashing his tech database quite hard. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Grayscale PDFs
At 12:22 -0800 27/11/06, Dov Isaacs wrote: >A more inclusive "fix" would be to not use the driver option but to use the >color conversion features of Acrobat 7 Pro or Acrobat 8 Pro. This is topical, as I've just trialled 8 Pro for a very similar reason. It is my understanding that some 'advanced' features such as ink aliasing work only for print/press/RIP output from Acrobat 8 Pro: that is, they cannot be used to edit a PDF so that colors are permanently remapped. Adobe UK support confirmed this. However, I'm still slightly surprised, as it means that the features are only of use to print shops, and not to, say, those who supply pre-press PDFs. Perhaps Dov could confirm this? -- Steve
Grayscale PDFs
Steve, I think that you are confusing two separate facilities, the "Ink Manager" and the "Convert Colors" facility. The "Ink Manager" can be used to alias spot colors and/or to cause spot colors to be printed as process. Given that FrameMaker Windows has no ability to natively output spot colors :-( the Ink Manager is somewhat useless with regards to FrameMaker output. And yes, settings done with the Ink Manager for a PDF file are not persistent (they don't "stay" with the PDF file if it is saved). They exist only as long as the PDF file is open. The "Convert Colors" facility is a totally separate beast. It allows colors to be actually changed such as RGB to CMYK using ICC profiles (not the dumb PostScript RGB to CMYK conversion) or RGB (or CMYK) to grayscale. The changes made with this facility are preserved if you then save the PDF file. "Adobe UK Support" either didn't understand what you were trying to find out or gave you the wrong answer or both. Sorry! - Dov > -Original Message- > From: Steve Rickaby [mailto:srickaby at wordmongers.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:54 AM > To: Dov Isaacs > Cc: framers at FrameUsers.com > Subject: RE: Grayscale PDFs > > At 12:22 -0800 27/11/06, Dov Isaacs wrote: > > >A more inclusive "fix" would be to not use the driver option > but to use the color conversion features of Acrobat 7 Pro or > Acrobat 8 Pro. > > This is topical, as I've just trialled 8 Pro for a very > similar reason. > > It is my understanding that some 'advanced' features such as > ink aliasing work only for print/press/RIP output from > Acrobat 8 Pro: that is, they cannot be used to edit a PDF so > that colors are permanently remapped. Adobe UK support > confirmed this. However, I'm still slightly surprised, as it > means that the features are only of use to print shops, and > not to, say, those who supply pre-press PDFs. > > Perhaps Dov could confirm this? > > -- > Steve >
Grayscale PDFs
At 06:18 -0800 28/11/06, Dov Isaacs wrote: >Steve, > >I think that you are confusing two separate facilities, the "Ink Manager" and >the "Convert Colors" facility. That is quite possible: I only had a short time to try out Acrobat 8 Pro. Another FrameUsers contributor had pointed me at the ink manager after seeing n 8 Pro demo, which is why I was concentrating on it. >The "Ink Manager" can be used to alias spot colors and/or to cause spot colors >to be printed as process. Given that FrameMaker Windows has no ability to >natively output spot colors :-( the Ink Manager is somewhat useless with >regards to FrameMaker output. But not on Mac, perhaps? ;-) > And yes, settings done with the Ink Manager for a PDF file are not persistent > (they don't "stay" with the PDF file if it is saved). They exist only as long > as the PDF file is open. Thanks for the confirmation. >The "Convert Colors" facility is a totally separate beast. It allows colors to >be actually changed such as RGB to CMYK using ICC profiles (not the dumb >PostScript RGB to CMYK conversion) or RGB (or CMYK) to grayscale. The changes >made with this facility are preserved if you then save the PDF file. Right. I shall return to the demo version and work some more with it. >"Adobe UK Support" either didn't understand what you were trying to find out >or gave you the wrong answer or both. Sorry! No problem. It's really quite hard to get complex technical issues over in a short phone call, especially when you're discussing completely new features in an application, and you're both under pressure. I could tell that the guy at the other end was thrashing his tech database quite hard. -- Steve
RE: Grayscale PDFs
Ben, The methodology that you are using works as long as NONE of your content is EPS or PDF containing color. That driver option does not do anything to content that passes through the driver. EPS and PDF (which is actually converted to the equivalent of EPS for output PostScript streams) is not touched by the driver in terms of this black and white option. A more inclusive fix would be to not use the driver option but to use the color conversion features of Acrobat 7 Pro or Acrobat 8 Pro. - Dov -Original Message- From: Ben Warburton Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 4:46 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Grayscale PDFs Hello Framers Our company has just changed printers and I have received a request for grayscale print-ready PDFs rather than the full colour PDFs we have always delivered (the Adobe recommended method of producing PDFs for sending to commercial printers). To generate grayscale, we used the Properties General Tab Printing Preferences Paper Quality tab Color = Black White option. The resulting PDF was less than two-thirds the size of the original colour version. My question to the list is, what kind of impact if any is this likely to have on the print quality? Regards Ben Warburton Documentation Training Manager ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Grayscale PDFs
Hello Framers Our company has just changed printers and I have received a request for grayscale print-ready PDFs rather than the full colour PDFs we have always delivered (the Adobe recommended method of producing PDFs for sending to commercial printers). To generate grayscale, we used the Properties > General Tab > Printing Preferences > Paper Quality tab > Color = Black & White option. The resulting PDF was less than two-thirds the size of the original colour version. My question to the list is, what kind of impact if any is this likely to have on the print quality? Regards Ben Warburton Documentation & Training Manager Wilcom Pty Ltd 146-156 Wyndham St Alexandria NSW 2015 Tel: 9578 5175 Fax: 9578 5108 Email: BWt at wilcom.com.au
Grayscale PDFs
Ben, The methodology that you are using "works" as long as NONE of your content is EPS or PDF containing color. That driver option does not do anything to content that passes "through" the driver. EPS and PDF (which is actually converted to the equivalent of EPS for output PostScript streams) is not touched by the driver in terms of this "black and white" option. A more inclusive "fix" would be to not use the driver option but to use the color conversion features of Acrobat 7 Pro or Acrobat 8 Pro. - Dov > -Original Message- > From: Ben Warburton > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 4:46 PM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Grayscale PDFs > > Hello Framers > > Our company has just changed printers and I have received a > request for grayscale print-ready PDFs rather than the full > colour PDFs we have always delivered (the Adobe recommended > method of producing PDFs for sending to commercial printers). > To generate grayscale, we used the Properties > General Tab > > Printing Preferences > Paper Quality tab > Color = Black & > White option. The resulting PDF was less than two-thirds the > size of the original colour version. My question to the list > is, what kind of impact if any is this likely to have on the > print quality? > > Regards > > Ben Warburton > Documentation & Training Manager
Grayscale PDFs
Hello Framers Our company has just changed printers and I have received a request for grayscale print-ready PDFs rather than the full colour PDFs we have always delivered (the Adobe recommended method of producing PDFs for sending to commercial printers). To generate grayscale, we used the Properties General Tab Printing Preferences Paper Quality tab Color = Black White option. The resulting PDF was less than two-thirds the size of the original colour version. My question to the list is, what kind of impact if any is this likely to have on the print quality? Regards Ben Warburton Documentation Training Manager Wilcom Pty Ltd 146-156 Wyndham St Alexandria NSW 2015 Tel: 9578 5175 Fax: 9578 5108 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Grayscale PDFs
Our company has just changed printers and I have received a request for grayscale print-ready PDFs rather than the full colour PDFs we have always delivered (the Adobe recommended method of producing PDFs for sending to commercial printers). To generate grayscale, we used the Properties General Tab Printing Preferences Paper Quality tab Color = Black White option. The resulting PDF was less than two-thirds the size of the original colour version. My question to the list is, what kind of impact if any is this likely to have on the print quality? Provided you didn't downsample any of the images in setting your preferences, there should be no drop in print quality. -- Bill Swallow HATT List Owner WWP-Users List Owner Senior Member STC, TechValley Chapter STC Single-Sourcing SIG Manager http://techcommdood.blogspot.com avid homebrewer and proud beer snob I see your OOO message and raise you a clue. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Grayscale PDFs
> Our company has just changed printers and I have received a request for > grayscale print-ready PDFs rather than the full colour PDFs we have > always delivered (the Adobe recommended method of producing PDFs for > sending to commercial printers). To generate grayscale, we used the > Properties > General Tab > Printing Preferences > Paper Quality tab > > Color = Black & White option. The resulting PDF was less than two-thirds > the size of the original colour version. My question to the list is, > what kind of impact if any is this likely to have on the print quality? Provided you didn't downsample any of the images in setting your preferences, there should be no drop in print quality. -- Bill Swallow HATT List Owner WWP-Users List Owner Senior Member STC, TechValley Chapter STC Single-Sourcing SIG Manager http://techcommdood.blogspot.com avid homebrewer and proud beer snob "I see your OOO message and raise you a clue."
