Re: Flare vs DITA
Using Maker eliminates FO. Instead, you set up a Maker template, and work in near WYSIWYG. If you will use Maker, definitely, use structured Maker. You could use a simplified structure -- not necessarily DITA. For example, why not use XHTML? Then you can make your PDF look like whatever you want via Maker template design, and your source is in XHTML. If you later want to go to DITA, run a transform (yes, that would be a script). If you want to use Maker to edit DITA, that can be done -- I do it. Templates are not as straight forward as they could be... Adobe unfortunately embeds lots of formatting in the EDD in ways that might even be called gratuitous... That only makes it more difficult to modify your template. But it can be done, and once done you're using familiar tools... No FO scripts that need constant tweaking. Like I said, I do this today. There are those who poo-poo me for it, but it works just fine. I'm crying all the way to the bank. cud=== Yes, those are the scripts I am talking about. -Gillian On Apr 14, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Art, Gillian is probably referring to XSL-FO scripts which need to be customized to get the PDF output you want. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Flare vs DITA
Let me add to what Chris has said. If you need high-quality PDFs, nothing beats Adobe FrameMaker (InDesign is good too). I can't understand users who move to structured FrameMaker then try to get PDFs from the DITA Open Toolkit. They are never going to be as good as the PDFs that FrameMaker produces. Plus, you can take advantage of FrameMaker's templates: you might have a stripped-down non-WYSIWYG template for authors and content providers, perhaps based on XHTML structure, and then a pretty template that a layout person could import that would be suitable for PDF output. That kind of process eliminates the temptation of authors to worry about pagination and line breaks early in the development process. And if the ultimate desire is to ditch FrameMaker, your content is at least already structured, and you can use FrameMaker to get PDFs until your DITA-OT PDF styles are fully developed. Or, another realistic possibility: if you use a schema like DITA, let the authors and content providers use whatever editor they like. Then simply use a FrameMaker license as a print-engine to produce high-quality PDFs. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-366-4017 r...@frameexpert.com From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Chris Despopoulos Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 1:12 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Flare vs DITA Using Maker eliminates FO. Instead, you set up a Maker template, and work in near WYSIWYG. If you will use Maker, definitely, use structured Maker. You could use a simplified structure -- not necessarily DITA. For example, why not use XHTML? Then you can make your PDF look like whatever you want via Maker template design, and your source is in XHTML. If you later want to go to DITA, run a transform (yes, that would be a script). If you want to use Maker to edit DITA, that can be done -- I do it. Templates are not as straight forward as they could be... Adobe unfortunately embeds lots of formatting in the EDD in ways that might even be called gratuitous... That only makes it more difficult to modify your template. But it can be done, and once done you're using familiar tools... No FO scripts that need constant tweaking. Like I said, I do this today. There are those who poo-poo me for it, but it works just fine. I'm crying all the way to the bank. cud === Yes, those are the scripts I am talking about. -Gillian On Apr 14, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Art, Gillian is probably referring to XSL-FO scripts which need to be customized to get the PDF output you want. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
I'm sorry, but at a certain level this question is either too general (would require a collection of books to answer) or nonsensical (no context to base the comparison on). I think the first question should be, what are you trying to achieve? If all you want is an in-house process for a manageable set of docs that don't need to take advantage of re-use and other DITA power-tools, then the answer is easy. Flare is easier to use than DITA. But that answer is so very dependent on context that it's really meaningless. Flare is easier if... (add a long list of conditions here). DITA is more appropriate when... (add another long list of conditions here). So until you can express the goals, it doesn't make sense to me to compare a washing machine with a lawn mower. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
Flare vs. Frame with DITA-FMx sounds like a toss-up. I assume you are familiar with Frame, since you are asking on this list, so why start with something new? -- Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 13-Apr-15 8:20 PM, Gillian Flato wrote: Thanks everyone. Sorry I wasn’t clear. I’ve used DITA for about two years authoring with Oxygen and EasyDITA. I outsourced my script writing to a third party. That’s the problem with DITA. To get the docs and help to look professional, you have to outsource script writing and that’s expensive. I was looking for cheaper alternatives. I have used DITA-FMx and I may go that route. I just wanted to know of Flare was a better alternative to structured Frame with DITA-FMx Thanks Gillian On Apr 13, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: You can write topics with any tool, but Flare sort of forces you to, since the source is one file per topic (at least down to some heading level). Flare templates are extremely customizable. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
If you DON'T have FrameMaker or aren't familiar with using it to author DITA, and aren't chained to DITA, Flare would probably be way, way easier. There's probably some set of requirements where structured FrameMaker would be the best and/or most cost-effective tool for the job these days, but it's hard for me to imagine what that would be. On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 1:46 AM, Shmuel shmue...@gmail.com wrote: Flare vs. Frame with DITA-FMx sounds like a toss-up. I assume you are familiar with Frame, since you are asking on this list, so why start with something new? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
I have used unstructured Frame for 15 years. I am an advanced user. I have used DITA for 3 with Oxygen. We outsourced writing our scripts. Now I have to decide if I want to use Frame unstructured or structured for a new project. There are no legacy docs. -Gillian On Apr 14, 2015, at 10:44 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: If you DON'T have FrameMaker or aren't familiar with using it to author DITA, and aren't chained to DITA, Flare would probably be way, way easier. There's probably some set of requirements where structured FrameMaker would be the best and/or most cost-effective tool for the job these days, but it's hard for me to imagine what that would be. On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 1:46 AM, Shmuel shmue...@gmail.com wrote: Flare vs. Frame with DITA-FMx sounds like a toss-up. I assume you are familiar with Frame, since you are asking on this list, so why start with something new? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Flare vs DITA
Art, Gillian is probably referring to XSL-FO scripts which need to be customized to get the PDF output you want. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-366-4017 r...@frameexpert.com From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Art Campbell Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 2:39 PM To: Gillian Flato Cc: Framers Subject: Re: Flare vs DITA Gillian, when you were talking about scripts... Could you fill us in on what they do and why they're required? I've never seen a DITA project (other than legacy ports) that required scripting, and am just curious about how they're used. Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: I have used unstructured Frame for 15 years. I am an advanced user. I have used DITA for 3 with Oxygen. We outsourced writing our scripts. Now I have to decide if I want to use Frame unstructured or structured for a new project. There are no legacy docs. -Gillian On Apr 14, 2015, at 10:44 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: If you DON'T have FrameMaker or aren't familiar with using it to author DITA, and aren't chained to DITA, Flare would probably be way, way easier. There's probably some set of requirements where structured FrameMaker would be the best and/or most cost-effective tool for the job these days, but it's hard for me to imagine what that would be. On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 1:46 AM, Shmuel shmue...@gmail.com wrote: Flare vs. Frame with DITA-FMx sounds like a toss-up. I assume you are familiar with Frame, since you are asking on this list, so why start with something new? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
Given that you're a very advanced user, you should just get the free trial of Flare and draw your own conclusions as to whether it would be cost-effective for your purposes. On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: I have used unstructured Frame for 15 years. I am an advanced user. I have used DITA for 3 with Oxygen. We outsourced writing our scripts. Now I have to decide if I want to use Frame unstructured or structured for a new project. There are no legacy docs. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
Yes, those are the scripts I am talking about. -Gillian On Apr 14, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Art, Gillian is probably referring to XSL-FO scripts which need to be customized to get the PDF output you want. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-366-4017 r...@frameexpert.com mailto:r...@frameexpert.com From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Art Campbell Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 2:39 PM To: Gillian Flato Cc: Framers Subject: Re: Flare vs DITA Gillian, when you were talking about scripts... Could you fill us in on what they do and why they're required? I've never seen a DITA project (other than legacy ports) that required scripting, and am just curious about how they're used. Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com mailto:art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com http://www.thegrotonline.com/, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net mailto:gill6...@comcast.net wrote: I have used unstructured Frame for 15 years. I am an advanced user. I have used DITA for 3 with Oxygen. We outsourced writing our scripts. Now I have to decide if I want to use Frame unstructured or structured for a new project. There are no legacy docs. -Gillian On Apr 14, 2015, at 10:44 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com mailto:rob...@lauriston.com wrote: If you DON'T have FrameMaker or aren't familiar with using it to author DITA, and aren't chained to DITA, Flare would probably be way, way easier. There's probably some set of requirements where structured FrameMaker would be the best and/or most cost-effective tool for the job these days, but it's hard for me to imagine what that would be. On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 1:46 AM, Shmuel shmue...@gmail.com mailto:shmue...@gmail.com wrote: Flare vs. Frame with DITA-FMx sounds like a toss-up. I assume you are familiar with Frame, since you are asking on this list, so why start with something new? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com mailto:art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com mailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com mailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
Gillian, when you were talking about scripts... Could you fill us in on what they do and why they're required? I've never seen a DITA project (other than legacy ports) that required scripting, and am just curious about how they're used. Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: I have used unstructured Frame for 15 years. I am an advanced user. I have used DITA for 3 with Oxygen. We outsourced writing our scripts. Now I have to decide if I want to use Frame unstructured or structured for a new project. There are no legacy docs. -Gillian On Apr 14, 2015, at 10:44 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: If you DON'T have FrameMaker or aren't familiar with using it to author DITA, and aren't chained to DITA, Flare would probably be way, way easier. There's probably some set of requirements where structured FrameMaker would be the best and/or most cost-effective tool for the job these days, but it's hard for me to imagine what that would be. On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 1:46 AM, Shmuel shmue...@gmail.com wrote: Flare vs. Frame with DITA-FMx sounds like a toss-up. I assume you are familiar with Frame, since you are asking on this list, so why start with something new? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
Thanks everyone. Sorry I wasn’t clear. I’ve used DITA for about two years authoring with Oxygen and EasyDITA. I outsourced my script writing to a third party. That’s the problem with DITA. To get the docs and help to look professional, you have to outsource script writing and that’s expensive. I was looking for cheaper alternatives. I have used DITA-FMx and I may go that route. I just wanted to know of Flare was a better alternative to structured Frame with DITA-FMx Thanks Gillian On Apr 13, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: You can write topics with any tool, but Flare sort of forces you to, since the source is one file per topic (at least down to some heading level). Flare templates are extremely customizable. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
If your docs are translated, ask your translation service what they think about Flare vs. DITA. You can get a 30-day free trial of Flare. Import your DITA and see how it compares. There can be a steep learning curve at first but once you find all the features you need it's very flexible. On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: Thanks everyone. Sorry I wasn’t clear. I’ve used DITA for about two years authoring with Oxygen and EasyDITA. I outsourced my script writing to a third party. That’s the problem with DITA. To get the docs and help to look professional, you have to outsource script writing and that’s expensive. I was looking for cheaper alternatives. I have used DITA-FMx and I may go that route. I just wanted to know of Flare was a better alternative to structured Frame with DITA-FMx Thanks Gillian On Apr 13, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: You can write topics with any tool, but Flare sort of forces you to, since the source is one file per topic (at least down to some heading level). Flare templates are extremely customizable. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
Gillian, I'm really unclear why you think you need to get someone to write scripts for you. Getting a PDF from FM with or without Dita FMx is not hard. Time-consuming, but not hard. I haven't looked at the new output capabilities in FM 12, but they give you other options. As you already know, WebWorks ePublisher allows you to process DITA into PDF and HTML. The PDF output can be challenging, but you shouldn't need to hire anyone to write scripts. There are other tools, too, for processing Dita, but I'm not familiar with them. What is your required output? What are you challenges? Do you need to get up and running faster than you have time to learn how to create output? Do you need a better way of managing your content? I'd be happy to work with you offline to show you how to create PDFs from FM. Nadine From: Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net To: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 1:20 PM Subject: Re: Flare vs DITA Thanks everyone. Sorry I wasn’t clear. I’ve used DITA for about two years authoring with Oxygen and EasyDITA. I outsourced my script writing to a third party. That’s the problem with DITA. To get the docs and help to look professional, you have to outsource script writing and that’s expensive. I was looking for cheaper alternatives. I have used DITA-FMx and I may go that route. I just wanted to know of Flare was a better alternative to structured Frame with DITA-FMx Thanks Gillian On Apr 13, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: You can write topics with any tool, but Flare sort of forces you to, since the source is one file per topic (at least down to some heading level). Flare templates are extremely customizable. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
If you are interest in switching to topic-based authoring, and you are using Frame already, it might be easier to stick with Frame and switch to Structured Frame, which I believe is also topic-based authoring. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) -- Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 12-Apr-15 10:52 PM, Gillian Flato wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? Thanks Gillian ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. . ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
I think you answered your own question -- if you do need custom scripts to do DITA and the company can't afford it, it can't afford it. Given that you probably know FM better than Flare, I'd do FM over Flare because unstructured Flare isn't going to buy you much, if anything, and there's still a steep learning curve. If it was me, and it was a newish project without tons of legacy content for conversion, I'd use FM with FMx. If there are tons of legacy content, I'd probably run unstructured Frame and convert later when there was time and money available. Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: Art, What I am trying to decide is if I should go with Tech Comm Suite or Flare/Flare help at a job. If I do unstructured Frame, I can create templates myself. If I do Structured Frame with DITA FMx, I can struggle with it and eventually do it. If I do DITA, I have to hire someone to write scripts which the company can’t afford. I was trying to find out if Flare was a better alternative than Frame/Robohelp. -Gillian On Apr 12, 2015, at 2:27 PM, Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com wrote: DITA is a standard for producing documentation. Frame, Flare, and a small herd of other editors can create documents that support the DITA standards. So you're kind of asking an apples and oranges question -- one doesn't equal the other; the editors all have different ways of producing content that adheres to one or move of the DITA versions. And when you're talking about modifying their templates, are you talking about DITA templates or Flare? Flare's, generally, are based on cascading style sheets with some weird twists; they are customized for the particular output target -- online help, PDF, what have you, so an H1 will likely be different sizes, fonts, and so on depending on what output format you're creating Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com http://www.thegrotonline.com/, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? Thanks Gillian ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
Gillian asked: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? IMHO, topic-based authoring is writing content in small chunks or modules. To quote Wikipedia: A topic is a discrete piece of content that is about a specific subject, has an identifiable purpose, and can stand alone (does not need to be presented in context for the end-user to make sense of the content). Topics are also reusable. They can, when constructed properly (without reliance on other content for its meaning), be reused in any context anywhere needed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic-based_authoring) It does not imply that the content is typed (specialized). DITA is content that is marked up semantically. Although you can create content in DITA that is topic-based, you don't have to. So the difference at the content level between Flare and DITA is that content written in Flare is unstructured and not marked up semantically, and DITA is structured and marked up semantically. Which approach is more advantageous is going to depend on what you need overall now and in the future. Nadine From: Shmuel shmue...@gmail.com To: Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net; framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 5:35 AM Subject: Re: Flare vs DITA If you are interest in switching to topic-based authoring, and you are using Frame already, it might be easier to stick with Frame and switch to Structured Frame, which I believe is also topic-based authoring. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) -- Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 12-Apr-15 10:52 PM, Gillian Flato wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? Thanks Gillian ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. . ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
Hi Gillian Why would you have to hire someone to write scripts if you do DITA? Just like Art, I'd use FM with DITA-FMx. If you know how to create unstructured Fm templates, you can easily learn how to modify the component templates that come with DITA-FMx. Actually, the process is quite simple: 1. You map the formats from your unstructured template to the formats in the DITA-FMx component templates. For example, take the Heading 1 paratag from your template and rename it to title.0. 2. You import the formats from your unstructured Fm template into one or more DITA-FMx component templates. Basically, that's it! No scripts required at all. Later, you may want to finetune your component templates, which may imply: - Customizing the EDD and/or - Buying some (inexpensive) DITA-FMx add-ons, for example to insert (warning) symbols Cheers Yves Barbion www.scripto.nu On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com wrote: I think you answered your own question -- if you do need custom scripts to do DITA and the company can't afford it, it can't afford it. Given that you probably know FM better than Flare, I'd do FM over Flare because unstructured Flare isn't going to buy you much, if anything, and there's still a steep learning curve. If it was me, and it was a newish project without tons of legacy content for conversion, I'd use FM with FMx. If there are tons of legacy content, I'd probably run unstructured Frame and convert later when there was time and money available. Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: Art, What I am trying to decide is if I should go with Tech Comm Suite or Flare/Flare help at a job. If I do unstructured Frame, I can create templates myself. If I do Structured Frame with DITA FMx, I can struggle with it and eventually do it. If I do DITA, I have to hire someone to write scripts which the company can’t afford. I was trying to find out if Flare was a better alternative than Frame/Robohelp. -Gillian On Apr 12, 2015, at 2:27 PM, Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com wrote: DITA is a standard for producing documentation. Frame, Flare, and a small herd of other editors can create documents that support the DITA standards. So you're kind of asking an apples and oranges question -- one doesn't equal the other; the editors all have different ways of producing content that adheres to one or move of the DITA versions. And when you're talking about modifying their templates, are you talking about DITA templates or Flare? Flare's, generally, are based on cascading style sheets with some weird twists; they are customized for the particular output target -- online help, PDF, what have you, so an H1 will likely be different sizes, fonts, and so on depending on what output format you're creating Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com http://www.thegrotonline.com/, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? Thanks Gillian ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as yves.barb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
Flare's not a DITA authoring tool the way Oxygen, XMetal, or structured FrameMaker are. Oxygen is kind of like a DITA-based Flare. Flare can export DITA, but since Flare's source is not as structured, the DITA output might need some work before it would be usable. Anything you *can* do with Flare would probably be easier than doing the same with DITA. On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:09 AM, gr...@hedgewizard.net gr...@hedgewizard.net wrote: My apologies for the format; I seem to be thinking in bullets this morning. Flare is a tool; DITA is a standard (or collection of standards). You can use Flare to produce DITA (http://webhelp.madcapsoftware.com/flare11/Content/DITA/About_DITA.htm) There are multiple other tools that can produce DITA output (which is basically a subset of XML). You can do topic-based writing for other formats. (I did that for WinHelp and WebHelp for years.) As Shmuel notes, the big step with DITA is that it has a focus on typed content, which can allow you to do additional things with the content more easily. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
My apologies for the format; I seem to be thinking in bullets this morning. * Flare is a tool; DITA is a standard (or collection of standards). * You can use Flare to produce DITA (http://webhelp.madcapsoftware.com/flare11/Content/DITA/About_DITA.htm) * There are multiple other tools that can produce DITA output (which is basically a subset of XML). * You can do topic-based writing for other formats. (I did that for WinHelp and WebHelp for years.) * As Shmuel notes, the big step with DITA is that it has a focus on typed content, which can allow you to do additional things with the content more easily. Grant On April 13, 2015 at 8:37 AM Writer generic...@yahoo.ca wrote: Gillian asked: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? IMHO, topic-based authoring is writing content in small chunks or modules. To quote Wikipedia: A topic is a discrete piece of content that is about a specific subject, has an identifiable purpose, and can stand alone (does not need to be presented in context for the end-user to make sense of the content). Topics are also reusable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuse . They can, when constructed properly (without reliance on other content for its meaning), be reused in any context anywhere needed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic-based_authoring) It does not imply that the content is typed (specialized). DITA is content that is marked up semantically. Although you can create content in DITA that is topic-based, you don't have to. So the difference at the content level between Flare and DITA is that content written in Flare is unstructured and not marked up semantically, and DITA is structured and marked up semantically. Which approach is more advantageous is going to depend on what you need overall now and in the future. Nadine - From: Shmuel shmue...@gmail.com To: Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net; framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 5:35 AM Subject: Re: Flare vs DITA If you are interest in switching to topic-based authoring, and you are using Frame already, it might be easier to stick with Frame and switch to Structured Frame, which I believe is also topic-based authoring. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) -- Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 12-Apr-15 10:52 PM, Gillian Flato wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? Thanks Gillian ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. mailto:shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com mailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. mailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. . ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com mailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. mailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as gr...@hedgewizard.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/grant%40hedgewizard.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send
Re: Flare vs DITA
You can write topics with any tool, but Flare sort of forces you to, since the source is one file per topic (at least down to some heading level). Flare templates are extremely customizable. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Flare vs DITA
You should probably visit the DITA.XML website (http://dita.xml.org). According to its site: DITA XML.org is the official community gathering place and information resource for the DITA OASIS Standard, an XML architecture for designing, writing, managing, and publishing information. This is how I got my feet wet and learned about DITA. There is also a tab on the website for User Groups (http://dita.xml.org/book/dita-user-groups). There are regional groups and virtual groups. Also, click on the Resources page (http://dita.xml.org/resource-directory). The main resource page alone has great articles that can help to get you going. Be sure to look at a number of applications beyond Flare and FrameMaker. For example, there is also Oxygen XML Editor. The DITA.XML has a Products tab where you can compare applications based on the features that are necessary to you (http://dita.xml.org/products). Best of luck! -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Gillian Flato Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2015 3:52 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Flare vs DITA How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? Thanks Gillian ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as sabu...@tycoint.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sabungu%40tycoint.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in respect of any information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and immediately destroy this e-mail and its attachments. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs DITA
DITA is a standard for producing documentation. Frame, Flare, and a small herd of other editors can create documents that support the DITA standards. So you're kind of asking an apples and oranges question -- one doesn't equal the other; the editors all have different ways of producing content that adheres to one or move of the DITA versions. And when you're talking about modifying their templates, are you talking about DITA templates or Flare? Flare's, generally, are based on cascading style sheets with some weird twists; they are customized for the particular output target -- online help, PDF, what have you, so an H1 will likely be different sizes, fonts, and so on depending on what output format you're creating Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Gillian Flato gill6...@comcast.net wrote: How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? Thanks Gillian ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Flare vs DITA
How does Flare compare to DITA? It seems like you get all of the advantages of topic-baesd authoring, without having to have someone write scripts for you. Has anyone tried modifying their templates? How easy or difficult is that. How is their help file making product? Thanks Gillian ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
