So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

ination of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 >>>>> pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page specifications) is >>>>> proving quite workable. Not perfect, and not as flexible as >>>>> FrameMaker, but the costly ?upgrades? of FrameM

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

...@googlegroups.com *Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

My biggest kvetch about all the structured doc tools I've seen (and I've been using them as far back as IBM's BookMaster) is that they generally output like sausage machines. All the text is simply extruded onto the page, with no awareness of how people read documents or process information. It

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Lots of structured authoring tools, including FrameMaker, offer a WYSIWYG presentation. I don't see people moving away from that since it's a lot more efficient to fix formatting problems on the fly. On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Mike's comment is

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish

Rick Quatro wrote: Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving away from WSIWYG in this century. The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish

: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 7:26 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish Rick Quatro wrote: Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving away from WSIWYG in this century. The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, S1000D

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

of hundreds of separate pieces of software from dozens of different sources... -Fred Ridder Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:46:18 +0200 From: shmue...@gmail.com To: a...@alphabyte.co.nz; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

this helps, Z From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:52 AM To: shmu...@excalibur.co.il; Alan Litchfield; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph Lorenzini *Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM *To:* FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com *Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

ot >>> acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker. >>> >>> BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve **complete** >>> look-and-feel consistency in my specifications ? formatting is >>> separate from text entry ? and I value

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Unless/when print technologies change, then you might need that step. Until then your existing Acrobat will continue to work with the old license. I still run a #8 version on an old computer. Alan On 30/10/13 5:54 AM, Mike Wickham wrote: > I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote: > PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in > Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - > Rick Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

>>>> FrameMaker, but the costly ?upgrades? of FrameMaker is not >>>> acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker. >>>> >>>> BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve **complete** >>>> look-and-feel

So Long and Thanks for the Fish

Rick Quatro wrote: "Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving away from WSIWYG "in this century." The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. Increasingly, authoring content is being separated

So Long and Thanks for the Fish

Michael Norton Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 7:26 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish Rick Quatro wrote: "Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving away from WSIWYG "in this century." The w

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

TeX chaos of hundreds of separate pieces of software from dozens of different sources... -Fred Ridder > Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:46:18 +0200 > From: shmuelw1 at gmail.com > To: alan at alphabyte.co.nz; framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Mig

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

elw1 at gmail.com> > To: alan at alphabyte.co.nz<mailto:alan at alphabyte.co.nz>; framers at > lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to > Flare > > Are you saying that TeXLi

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lorenzini Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM To: FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :) Mike Wickham It's nice to know there is a free alternative to FrameMaker, which has become very overpriced lately. They went from $400 for an

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

? Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :) ? Mike Wickham Absolutely correct that it is non-WYSIWYG for the text input. So, it does require a change in thinking when writing. However,

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote: Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain fonts and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if you want that, you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it is the most stable and full-featured.

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving away from WSIWYG in this century. The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I use Acrobat to generate my PDF. I'm sure third party choices could work well, too, but I prefer Acrobat. (That could change if Adobe takes it to a subscription-only model.) Mike Wickham On 10/29/2013 10:14 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 21:02

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

...@googlegroups.com *Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Unless/when print technologies change, then you might need that step. Until then your existing Acrobat will continue to work with the old license. I still run a #8 version on an old computer. Alan On 30/10/13 5:54 AM, Mike Wickham wrote: I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - Rick Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too. However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote: PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - Rick Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote: PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in Adobe Acrobat equivalents from

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Uh slap on side of head dummy me - hyperref is what I am already using. Just haven't explored all the options yet ... Z That looks good indeed - the description is exactly what I want! I will have to try it out. Thanks much, Z On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

t; Z > > *From:*framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph > Lorenzini > *Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM > *To:* FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

26, 2013 10:13 AM > *To:* FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from > FrameMaker to Flare > > Hi all, > > I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce > thousands of pages of documentation. And I

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

There are plenty of alternatives even with FM, as long as you use "Print . . ." rather than "Save as PDF". I have Acrobat at home but use "CutePDF" as a printer on my university machine. Michael Lewis Macquarie University On 2013/10/29 11:33, VLM TechSubs wrote: > It occurs to me that leaving

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :) Mike Wickham > It's nice to know there is a free alternative to FrameMaker, which > has become very overpriced lately. They went from $400 for an

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

? Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :) ? Mike Wickham Absolutely correct that it is non-WYSIWYG for the text input. So, it does require a change in thinking when writing. However,

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote: >Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain fonts >and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if you want that, >you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it is the most stable and

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving away from WSIWYG "in this century." The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I use Acrobat to generate my PDF. I'm sure third party choices could work well, too, but I prefer Acrobat. (That could change if Adobe takes it to a subscription-only model.) Mike Wickham On 10/29/2013 10:14 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote: > At 21:02

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - Rick Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too. However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote: > PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in > Adobe A

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Uh dummy me - hyperref is what I am already using. Just haven't explored all the options yet ... Z > That looks good indeed - the description is exactly what I want! I will have > to try it out. > Thanks much, > Z On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote: >

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

My biggest kvetch about all the structured doc tools I've seen (and I've been using them as far back as IBM's "BookMaster") is that they generally output like sausage machines. All the text is simply extruded onto the page, with no awareness of how people read documents or process information. It

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Lots of structured authoring tools, including FrameMaker, offer a WYSIWYG presentation. I don't see people moving away from that since it's a lot more efficient to fix formatting problems on the fly. On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Rick Quatro wrote: > Mike's comment is interesting light of the

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful. So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this community and

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

To: FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great tool

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 2:22:59 PM Subject: RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating fromFrameMaker to Flare Hi, Joseph.   You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker … if you look at my posts in the past months, I have done the same although I

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

...@googlegroups.com *Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Why not share your reasons for migrating with the list? It's not like this is a fan club, I think a lot of FM users are looking for a practical migration path. It would be interesting to hear a current comparison of the two. On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Joseph Lorenzini jalo...@gmail.com

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Lorenzini Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM To: FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of documentation

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

to the latest version of it. Alan Best to all, Elchanan *From:*framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph Lorenzini *Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM *To:* FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com *Subject:* So Long

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

There are plenty of alternatives even with FM, as long as you use Print . . . rather than Save as PDF. I have Acrobat at home but use CutePDF as a printer on my university machine. Michael Lewis Macquarie University On 2013/10/29 11:33, VLM TechSubs wrote: It occurs to me that leaving

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

VLM TechSubs wrote: It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one’s last tie to Adobe Acrobat, as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware. Adobe applications don't tie you to Acrobat. FM includes a

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

2013 10:13 AM To: FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

frameusers.com> >Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 2:22:59 PM >Subject: RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating fromFrameMaker >to Flare > > > >Hi, Joseph. >? >You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker ? if you look at my >posts in the past

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Why not share your reasons for migrating with the list? It's not like this is a fan club, I think a lot of FM users are looking for a practical migration path. It would be interesting to hear a current comparison of the two. On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Joseph Lorenzini wrote: > Hi all, > >

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Lorenzini Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM To: FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of documentation

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

VLM TechSubs wrote: > It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one?s last tie to Adobe > Acrobat, as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe > applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware. Adobe applications don't tie you to Acrobat. FM includes a

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Hi all, I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful. So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this community and