Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
: >Well, I understand that, my question is, why are true PCI devices like : >video controllers still shown as being on isa0 by the kernel? Yokota-san's answer is correct here, which I've not repeated. however, atkbdc0 is a isa device as is fdc0. For some drivers it is easier to hack a pci front end that kicks the device into isa legacy mode. video is one (since it must support legacy things). pcic is another, because writing a native cardbus bridge code is a lot harder than writing a front end that kicks it into compat mode. but atakbdc and fdc, those really are isa devices. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: >recognized to be on the ISA bus. But, the reality is that the PCI >video card is a half-PCI and half-ISA device... Thank you, Kazu. That sucks, but at least it makes sense now. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
>On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Warner Losh wrote: > >>In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Warner Losh writes: >>: The reason you have a ISA to PCI bridge still is that the serial >>: ports, parallel ports, floppy, keyboard and mouse devices still live >>: on the ISA bus. They aren't full PCI nodes just yet in most hardware >>: designs (I've yet to see a floppy, keyboard or mouse on the pci bus, >>: but I'm sure people will tell me where I can find such beasts). >> >>I should have also added: >> >>Even though there are no ISA expansion slots on your machine, you >>still have an ISA bus living inside (unless it is a legacy free >>machine we keep hearing about, which I didn't think was on the >>market). The PC-99 standard (not to be confused with the Japanese >>PC-98 machines) states that you cannot have a ISA expansion slot, but >>a later clarification to the standard states clearly that you can >>still have ISA devices built into the mother board. >> >>In other words, No ISA slots doesn't necessarily mean that the machine >>doesn't have an ISA bus. > >Well, I understand that, my question is, why are true PCI devices like >video controllers still shown as being on isa0 by the kernel? I wanted >an explanation of that. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps >there's a valid PC/AT hardware limitation reason for it. Otherwise it >seems silly. =) > >Brandon D. Valentine If you read the PCI's specification, video cards are given special treatment due to necessary backward compatibility with ISA video cards. PCI video cards occupies ISA bus resources (ports and memory range) and these are handled in a special manner which is not quite PCI bus's way. If a video card uses only PCI bus resources and does not occupy any of legacy ISA bus resoruces, it is indeed silly that it is recognized to be on the ISA bus. But, the reality is that the PCI video card is a half-PCI and half-ISA device... Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: >Well, I understand that, my question is, why are true PCI devices like >video controllers still shown as being on isa0 by the kernel? I wanted >an explanation of that. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps >there's a valid PC/AT hardware limitation reason for it. Otherwise it >seems silly. =) If you can forget something, so can I. ;-) I should have added: vga0: rev 0x00 int a irq 12 on pci0.16.0 vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa msize 131072 on isa ^ ^^^ That's what I'm talking about. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Warner Losh wrote: >In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Warner Losh writes: >: The reason you have a ISA to PCI bridge still is that the serial >: ports, parallel ports, floppy, keyboard and mouse devices still live >: on the ISA bus. They aren't full PCI nodes just yet in most hardware >: designs (I've yet to see a floppy, keyboard or mouse on the pci bus, >: but I'm sure people will tell me where I can find such beasts). > >I should have also added: > >Even though there are no ISA expansion slots on your machine, you >still have an ISA bus living inside (unless it is a legacy free >machine we keep hearing about, which I didn't think was on the >market). The PC-99 standard (not to be confused with the Japanese >PC-98 machines) states that you cannot have a ISA expansion slot, but >a later clarification to the standard states clearly that you can >still have ISA devices built into the mother board. > >In other words, No ISA slots doesn't necessarily mean that the machine >doesn't have an ISA bus. Well, I understand that, my question is, why are true PCI devices like video controllers still shown as being on isa0 by the kernel? I wanted an explanation of that. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps there's a valid PC/AT hardware limitation reason for it. Otherwise it seems silly. =) Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Warner Losh writes: : The reason you have a ISA to PCI bridge still is that the serial : ports, parallel ports, floppy, keyboard and mouse devices still live : on the ISA bus. They aren't full PCI nodes just yet in most hardware : designs (I've yet to see a floppy, keyboard or mouse on the pci bus, : but I'm sure people will tell me where I can find such beasts). I should have also added: Even though there are no ISA expansion slots on your machine, you still have an ISA bus living inside (unless it is a legacy free machine we keep hearing about, which I didn't think was on the market). The PC-99 standard (not to be confused with the Japanese PC-98 machines) states that you cannot have a ISA expansion slot, but a later clarification to the standard states clearly that you can still have ISA devices built into the mother board. In other words, No ISA slots doesn't necessarily mean that the machine doesn't have an ISA bus. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Brandon D. Valentine" writes: : I've got a machine with an Abit SL6 w/ AGP/PCI/CNR onboard, but no ISA : slots, and it still has an ISA to PCI bridge built in. Some of the : devices still register with the kernel on the ISA bus, even though they : are quite obviously connected to the PCI bus. I suspect that some of : these devices may be tied to the ISA bus in the BIOS for arcane PC/AT : reasons. I would be interested to know details though, if someone could : spare a moment to give an over-the-top explanation of why this is true. Well, here's the short answer: The reason you have a ISA to PCI bridge still is that the serial ports, parallel ports, floppy, keyboard and mouse devices still live on the ISA bus. They aren't full PCI nodes just yet in most hardware designs (I've yet to see a floppy, keyboard or mouse on the pci bus, but I'm sure people will tell me where I can find such beasts). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
"Brandon D. Valentine" wrote: > > On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Donn Miller wrote: > > >Anyone know why these devices want to attach to the ISA bus on a primarily > >PCI bus machine? My MoBo is an Asus SP97-V, which has a mixture of ISA > >and PCI slots. I was wondering maybe if even machines that have all PCI > >slots, that there's still an internal ISA bus? Check out my dmesg. > > I've got a machine with an Abit SL6 w/ AGP/PCI/CNR onboard, but no ISA > slots, and it still has an ISA to PCI bridge built in. Some of the > devices still register with the kernel on the ISA bus, even though they > are quite obviously connected to the PCI bus. I suspect that some of > these devices may be tied to the ISA bus in the BIOS for arcane PC/AT > reasons. I would be interested to know details though, if someone could > spare a moment to give an over-the-top explanation of why this is true. I'm working on a little util similar to pciconf -l right now.. but using a large array of vendor/device strings for the id's.. Does pciconf -l display those devices as being part of the PCI bus or are they out of the picture completely? -mike. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Donn Miller wrote: >Anyone know why these devices want to attach to the ISA bus on a primarily >PCI bus machine? My MoBo is an Asus SP97-V, which has a mixture of ISA >and PCI slots. I was wondering maybe if even machines that have all PCI >slots, that there's still an internal ISA bus? Check out my dmesg. I've got a machine with an Abit SL6 w/ AGP/PCI/CNR onboard, but no ISA slots, and it still has an ISA to PCI bridge built in. Some of the devices still register with the kernel on the ISA bus, even though they are quite obviously connected to the PCI bus. I suspect that some of these devices may be tied to the ISA bus in the BIOS for arcane PC/AT reasons. I would be interested to know details though, if someone could spare a moment to give an over-the-top explanation of why this is true. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
Anyone know why these devices want to attach to the ISA bus on a primarily PCI bus machine? My MoBo is an Asus SP97-V, which has a mixture of ISA and PCI slots. I was wondering maybe if even machines that have all PCI slots, that there's still an internal ISA bus? Check out my dmesg. Specifically: pci0: at 19.0 irq 11 The video controller is on the PCI. But vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa-0xb on isa0 How can the VGA be ISA when the controller is on the PCI bus? Also, fdc0: at port 0x3f2-0x3f5,0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa0 atapci0: port 0xd000-0xd00f,0xd400-0xd403,0xd800-0xd807,0xe000-0xe003,0xe400-0xe407 irq 11 at device 1.1 on pci0 See how the floppy controller is on the ISA bus while the ATA driver is attaching to the PCI bus? Is there some bug in the bus probing routines? - Donn Copyright (c) 1992-2000 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #0: Thu Aug 3 10:05:18 EDT 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/compile/CUSTOM Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz Timecounter "TSC" frequency 166450605 Hz CPU: Pentium/P55C (166.45-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x543 Stepping = 3 Features=0x8001bf real memory = 62914560 (61440K bytes) avail memory = 57761792 (56408K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc037a000. Preloaded userconfig_script "/boot/kernel.conf" at 0xc037a09c. Intel Pentium detected, installing workaround for F00F bug md0: Malloc disk npx0: on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface pcib0: on motherboard pci0: on pcib0 pci0: at 0.0 isab0: at device 1.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 atapci0: port 0xd000-0xd00f,0xd400-0xd403,0xd800-0xd807,0xe000-0xe003,0xe400-0xe407 irq 11 at device 1.1 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 ed0: port 0xb800-0xb81f irq 10 at device 10.0 on pci0 ed0: address 00:c0:df:ed:0b:17, type NE2000 (16 bit) pci0: at 19.0 irq 11 sio2 at port 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 4 on isa0 sio2: type 16550A mse0: at port 0x23c-0x23f irq 3 on isa0 sc0: on isa0 sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x200> vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa-0xb on isa0 sbc1: at port 0x220-0x22f,0x388-0x38b,0x330-0x331 irq 5 drq 1,0 on isa0 pcm0: on sbc1 ppc0: at port 0x378-0x37f,0x778-0x77f irq 7 drq 3 on isa0 ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode ppc0: FIFO with 16/16/16 bytes threshold plip0: on ppbus0 lpt0: on ppbus0 lpt0: Interrupt-driven port ppi0: on ppbus0 unknown: can't assign resources unknown: can't assign resources fdc0: at port 0x3f2-0x3f5,0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa0 atkbdc0: at port 0x60,0x64 irq 1 on isa0 atkbd0: flags 0x1 irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 ad0: 3093MB [6704/15/63] at ata0-master using UDMA33 ad1: 1040MB [2114/16/63] at ata0-slave using WDMA2 acd0: CDROM at ata1-master using WDMA2
