Re: url encoding a string with base system tools

2007-09-29 Thread Dan Nelson
In the last episode (Sep 29), Aryeh Friedman said: I am creating a new port and part of the install procedure is the install script needs to send some data to a web server in the form of http://.?X where XXX is the url encoded plain text (can include any ascii printable character) that

please suggest FreeBSD 6.2 (AMD64) compatible Motherboard

2007-09-29 Thread Susanth K
Dear Friends, Am going to assemble a new PC (for my personal use). PROCESSOR AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core RAM 1GB Which MOTHER BOARD will be FreeBSD 6.2 (AMD64) compatible I mean, NO trouble with X display, LanCard, Sound and SATA Hard Disk. I request experienced to suggest me a solution.

How to restart a freezed tty?

2007-09-29 Thread Bahman M.
Hi all, For some reason all the ttys are frozen up; I can switch between X and them back and forth but not between the ttys themselves using ALT+Fn. I tried killing them; they terminate and restart but still frozen. I don't believe the only way out is to restart the system. How to make ttys

Re: Install problems with CD

2007-09-29 Thread Fernando Apesteguía
On 9/29/07, Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Depends on the distro (some have broken drivers in the install some don't... no matter what you will probally want to look at doing a cvsup upgrade to a newer version once you have installed it [see the handbook for details]). OK, Many

Re: Cant send email using mail but it works telnetting...

2007-09-29 Thread Christer Hermansson
Agus wrote: Hi list... I gound a problem while trying to send an email with a script using mail -s Subject [EMAIL PROTECTED] Then i entered the data...finished with . but it gets stuck in the queue with this... V8 T1191019178 K1191020151 N2 P120418 I0/80/47582 MDeferred: Connection refused by

want to install free bsd

2007-09-29 Thread Brian Guest
Dear [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to install freebsd 6.2 or 6.0 on my pentium three PC computer. At this moment my pentium three computer has XP installed on it i do not know which files from the freebsd website to download and write to a CDRW orCDR could you direct me to the wright

Re: want to install free bsd

2007-09-29 Thread Zbigniew Szalbot
Hi Brian, 2007/9/29, Brian Guest [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to install freebsd 6.2 or 6.0 on my pentium three PC computer. At this moment my pentium three computer has XP installed on it i do not know which files from the freebsd website to download and

Re: want to install free bsd

2007-09-29 Thread Manolis Kiagias
Brian Guest wrote: Dear [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to install freebsd 6.2 or 6.0 on my pentium three PC computer. At this moment my pentium three computer has XP installed on it i do not know which files from the freebsd website to download and write to a CDRW orCDR could you

Re: Portupgrading cups-base gives compiler error

2007-09-29 Thread Frank Jahnke
The cups-base upgrade error can be fixed with a simple patch. See http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=116721 (I was bitten by this as well.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list

Re: want to install free bsd

2007-09-29 Thread Roland Smith
On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 01:20:14AM -0700, Brian Guest wrote: Dear [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to install freebsd 6.2 or 6.0 on my pentium three PC computer. At this moment my pentium three computer has XP installed on it i do not know which files from the freebsd website to

Re: want to install free bsd

2007-09-29 Thread Bahman M.
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 01:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Brian Guest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to install freebsd 6.2 or 6.0 on my pentium three PC computer. At this moment my pentium three computer has XP installed on it i do not know which files from the freebsd

Creating Custom Install Media

2007-09-29 Thread Jerahmy Pocott
Hello, I'm wanting to make a custom install cd that will load up on the serial console, the documentation says all that is required is the addition of a file named boot.config with the single line /boot/loader -h in it. However it doesn't actually say how to then create a bootable cd

Re: want to install free bsd

2007-09-29 Thread Byung-Hee HWANG
On Sat, 2007-09-29 at 01:20 -0700, Brian Guest wrote: Dear [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to install freebsd 6.2 or 6.0 on my pentium three PC computer. At this moment my pentium three computer has XP installed on it i do not know which files from the freebsd website to download

Re: Adding CR/LF

2007-09-29 Thread jhall
On Sep 28, 2007, at 11:34 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the script I am using. #!/bin/sh FILENAMES=test1 test2 test3 FILELIST= for filename in ${FILENAMES} do FILELIST=${FILELIST}${filename}$'\n\r' echo ${FILELIST} done And, here is the output I am getting.

Re: want to install free bsd

2007-09-29 Thread Jerry McAllister
On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 01:20:14AM -0700, Brian Guest wrote: Dear [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to install freebsd 6.2 or 6.0 on my pentium three PC computer. At this moment my pentium three computer has XP installed on it i do not know which files from the freebsd website to

Re: File size discrepancies

2007-09-29 Thread Modulok
du doesn't count in bytes; it counts in disk blocks or KB. A 12KB difference is probably just due to better packing of directories in your newly-created tree as compared to your orignal one. To figure out where the difference is, run du -a in both trees and diff the two outputs. What I did

Re: CPU Monitoring Software

2007-09-29 Thread Momchil Ivanov
On Friday 28 September 2007 14:53:44 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wanting to see what my servers utilize as far as memory, disk, cpu, etc. over a certain time period. Is there some software that I can use? I guess something like the 'top' command that gives an average output over a certain

Re: How to install harvard style

2007-09-29 Thread Lowell Gilbert
ronggui [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In order to install the harvard bibliography style , I have to edit 'Makefile' setting 'bstdir', 'stydir', 'htmldir' and 'docdir' to values appropriate to your LaTeX installation. My question is how to figure out he bstdir etc.? It should be fairly easy to

Re: Cant send email using mail but it works telnetting...

2007-09-29 Thread Agus
2007/9/29, Christer Hermansson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Agus wrote: Hi list... I gound a problem while trying to send an email with a script using mail -s Subject [EMAIL PROTECTED] Then i entered the data...finished with . but it gets stuck in the queue with this... V8 T1191019178

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread Lowell Gilbert
Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Currently I have done a build/installworld build/install/kernel using a i386 CPUTYPE (w/ SMP and APIC set in the kernel (I am using the default sys/i386/conf/GENERIC) do I need to change this to amd64 for a intel duo e6850? (I have had several

sshd+pam problem on a fresh 6.2-RELEASE (amd64) install

2007-09-29 Thread Josh Carroll
On a fresh install of FreeBSD 6.2 (amd64), I've run into a problem with sshd and PAM. When the box first boots up, I cannot ssh in. I am immediately disconnected. If I look in /var/log/auth.log, I see: Sep 29 03:20:47 pflog sshd[68798]: in openpam_load_module(): no pam_opieaccess.so found Sep 29

Re: File size discrepancies

2007-09-29 Thread Lowell Gilbert
Modulok [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, the size of a directory itself can differ when the contents is identical? This is news to me. If you delete files from a directory, the storage used for the directory entries is not freed. ___

Security report question

2007-09-29 Thread Kurt Buff
I've noted in a security mail from one of my machines the following log entries: +++ /tmp/security.yEepp7hR Sat Sep 29 03:02:07 2007 +Limiting closed port RST response from 253 to 200 packets/sec +Limiting closed port RST response from 233 to 200 packets/sec +Limiting closed port RST

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread Aryeh Friedman
I have more then 4gb and was wondering why it didn't all show up is there anyway to do a in place upgrade (I have a lot of user data)... also someone should think about changing the naming on the iso/cpu types since 20 years of industry experience (15 with FreeBSD) and reading hardware.txt did

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread Josh Carroll
On 9/29/07, Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have more then 4gb and was wondering why it didn't all show up is there anyway to do a in place upgrade (I have a lot of user data)... also someone should think about changing the naming on the iso/cpu types since 20 years of industry

Re: Questions on the scheduler

2007-09-29 Thread Kris Kennaway
RW wrote: The FreeBSD response was to make the kernel more SMP friendly with finer-grained locking, and to bring-in the ULE scheduler. Dragonfly BSD was a fork off 4.x by people who thought a more radical kernel rewrite was needed. Their kernel avoids a lot of the locking problems by using

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread Aryeh Friedman
Please don't top-post. Anyway, if you're not seeing all 4G, then you are most likely running an i386 kernel/release and not amd64. In order to use 4G on a 32-bit (i386) install, you need to include: options PAE I already tried that and it barfed on a cast in adavsys.c (forget what subdir)

Re: Questions on the scheduler

2007-09-29 Thread Oliver Herold
Are there any numbers or technical papers? Just out of curiosity. Cheers, Oliver On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 06:10:50PM +0200, Kris Kennaway wrote: RW wrote: The FreeBSD response was to make the kernel more SMP friendly with finer-grained locking, and to bring-in the ULE scheduler. Dragonfly

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread Abdullah Ibn Hamad Al-Marri
On 9/29/07, Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't top-post. Anyway, if you're not seeing all 4G, then you are most likely running an i386 kernel/release and not amd64. In order to use 4G on a 32-bit (i386) install, you need to include: options PAE I already tried that

Re: Questions on the scheduler

2007-09-29 Thread Kris Kennaway
Oliver Herold wrote: Are there any numbers or technical papers? Just out of curiosity. I ran a mysql benchmark against Dragonfly-current and FreeBSD 7 on an 8-core machine (one of the workloads that FreeBSD now performs very well at) and found 0 scaling on dragonfly. Their developers

Re: Questions on the scheduler

2007-09-29 Thread Oliver Herold
Thanks :-) Cheers, Oliver On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 06:45:20PM +0200, Kris Kennaway wrote: Oliver Herold wrote: Are there any numbers or technical papers? Just out of curiosity. I ran a mysql benchmark against Dragonfly-current and FreeBSD 7 on an 8-core machine (one of the workloads that

Re: Questions on the scheduler

2007-09-29 Thread Abdullah Ibn Hamad Al-Marri
On 9/29/07, Kris Kennaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oliver Herold wrote: Are there any numbers or technical papers? Just out of curiosity. I ran a mysql benchmark against Dragonfly-current and FreeBSD 7 on an 8-core machine (one of the workloads that FreeBSD now performs very well at) and

Re: Questions on the scheduler

2007-09-29 Thread Oliver Herold
OpenBSD isn't about performance, so it will be most of the time inferior. http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/2007/09/28/0014.html Maybe this is of some help. But if compare it to Jeffs FreeBSD/Linux benches it looks rather strange to me. Cheers, Oliver On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 08:08:53PM

Slight problem with pinentry / gnupg

2007-09-29 Thread bsd
Hello, It seems I have a slight problem when trying to issue a simple pgp command such as : # gpg -v --detach-sign -a tmp.txt ┌─── ─┐ │ You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for user: │ │ Greg Bernard [EMAIL PROTECTED]│ │ 1024-bit

Re: Questions on the scheduler

2007-09-29 Thread Kris Kennaway
Abdullah Ibn Hamad Al-Marri wrote: On 9/29/07, Kris Kennaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oliver Herold wrote: Are there any numbers or technical papers? Just out of curiosity. I ran a mysql benchmark against Dragonfly-current and FreeBSD 7 on an 8-core machine (one of the workloads that FreeBSD

Re: Questions on the scheduler

2007-09-29 Thread Kris Kennaway
Oliver Herold wrote: OpenBSD isn't about performance, so it will be most of the time inferior. http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/2007/09/28/0014.html Maybe this is of some help. But if compare it to Jeffs FreeBSD/Linux benches it looks rather strange to me. Yeah, that's the one I am

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread Aryeh Friedman
Would the following procedure work to do an inplace upgrade: 1. Download the amd64 iso 2. Install it on a spare disk/partition 3. Do a cvsup on it's /usr/src 4. Make buildworld/buildkernel 5. Mount the x86 disk/partition 6. Copy /usr/obj (and /usr/src for good measure) from the amd partition to

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread Duane Hill
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 at 18:21 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] confabulated: Would the following procedure work to do an inplace upgrade: 1. Download the amd64 iso 2. Install it on a spare disk/partition 3. Do a cvsup on it's /usr/src 4. Make buildworld/buildkernel 5. Mount the x86 disk/partition 6.

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread Matthew Seaman
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Aryeh Friedman wrote: Would the following procedure work to do an inplace upgrade: 1. Download the amd64 iso 2. Install it on a spare disk/partition 3. Do a cvsup on it's /usr/src 4. Make buildworld/buildkernel 4.5 Install the updated kernel

7.0-CURRENT Ports Collection?

2007-09-29 Thread James Jeffery
Does 7.0 come with a disk for the Ports Collection or would they have to be downloaded from the internet? Im having trouble getting packages from the web, lots of errors when i try to install them. Everything seems dependant on everything else. Once i get the SSH to work i will post some output.

Re: 7.0-CURRENT Ports Collection?

2007-09-29 Thread Kris Kennaway
James Jeffery wrote: Does 7.0 come with a disk for the Ports Collection or would they have to be downloaded from the internet? When it is released you will be able to buy a CD set containing some of the packages, but if you are downloading then you will have to use the usual methods for

Research about FreeBSD - Suppor from experts required

2007-09-29 Thread DBSM
Hi to all ! Recently I started in my Buss. School a research about the impact of FreeBSD on the open source industry. I exchaged some innitial questions and receive good support. At this level I would like to ask FreeBSD some 2nl level questions intented to focalize my research 1. Is there an

Re: 7.0-CURRENT Ports Collection?

2007-09-29 Thread Aryeh Friedman
Are you attempting to download ports on 6.2 before you move to 7 or on 7? If the and your on a SMP (dual core don't know about physically seperate) there are some known issues in the protocol stack On 9/29/07, Kris Kennaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Jeffery wrote: Does 7.0 come with a

Re: 7.0-CURRENT Ports Collection?

2007-09-29 Thread Kris Kennaway
Aryeh Friedman wrote: Are you attempting to download ports on 6.2 before you move to 7 or on 7? If the and your on a SMP (dual core don't know about physically seperate) there are some known issues in the protocol stack Er, what issues, pray tell? :) Kris

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread Aryeh Friedman
2. Install it on a spare disk/partition How do I force sysinstall to only slice and install on the spare partition (don't have a spare disk) --Aryeh ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list

Re: 7.0-CURRENT Ports Collection?

2007-09-29 Thread Aryeh Friedman
On 9/29/07, Kris Kennaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aryeh Friedman wrote: Are you attempting to download ports on 6.2 before you move to 7 or on 7? If the and your on a SMP (dual core don't know about physically seperate) there are some known issues in the protocol stack Er, what issues,

Re: 7.0-CURRENT Ports Collection?

2007-09-29 Thread Kris Kennaway
Aryeh Friedman wrote: On 9/29/07, Kris Kennaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aryeh Friedman wrote: Are you attempting to download ports on 6.2 before you move to 7 or on 7? If the and your on a SMP (dual core don't know about physically seperate) there are some known issues in the protocol stack

HP Server compatability

2007-09-29 Thread Tim Kellers
I thought e would be purchasing a Dell 2950 to use as part of our FreeBSD 6.2 server farm, (and thanks to everyone for their informed replies), but due to other circumstances, our client wants to purchase a HP ProLiant ML350 G5 SAS LFF - Rack Server. The only experience I have with HP is

Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)

2007-09-29 Thread RW
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:03:05 + Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have more then 4gb and was wondering why it didn't all show up is there anyway to do a in place upgrade (I have a lot of user data)... also someone should think about changing the naming on the iso/cpu types

portupgrade coredumps

2007-09-29 Thread Ihsan Dogan
Hello, Recently, I've run into this problem: -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# portupgrade -a [Updating the pkgdb format:dbm_hash in /var/db/pkg ... - 655 packages found (-2 +1) (...)/usr/local/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/pkgdb.rb:429: [BUG] Segmentation

Is gmirror safer with load algorithm than round-robin?

2007-09-29 Thread Merot Kassad
List, I've been running into problems with gmirror and weak SATA controllers that appear to not handle the rapid simultaneous traffic to different disks.(Causes crashes.) I've seen other people have had these problems as well, and was wondering if anyone here knows if I could expect a difference

Re: 6.2 amd64 ufs_dirbad

2007-09-29 Thread Brian A. Seklecki
Can you post your dmesg(8) from /var/run/dmesg(8) so that we can see your SATA controller information? Can you try loading /usr/obj and /usr/src onto an alternate disk to see if the problem is controller/HBA/sata cable/disk related? ~BAS On Fri, 2007-09-28 at 10:33 -0700, Eric Osterweil wrote:

Re: Cant send email using mail but it works telnetting...

2007-09-29 Thread Christer Hermansson
Agus wrote: You want the mail to be delivered to the file /var/mail/username ? I just typed at my machine (running freebsd and sendmail) mail -s Testing [EMAIL PROTECTED] hello . and the mail got delivered to the file /var/mail/cat How is your sendmail configuration, I guess you have done

Re: Cant send email using mail but it works telnetting...

2007-09-29 Thread Agus
2007/9/29, Christer Hermansson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Agus wrote: You want the mail to be delivered to the file /var/mail/username ? I just typed at my machine (running freebsd and sendmail) mail -s Testing [EMAIL PROTECTED] hello . and the mail got delivered to the file

upgrading for cups-base 1.3.0

2007-09-29 Thread vujke
First time when I try to update caps-base didn't succeed, then I unchecked flag (and don't know why) Build with GNUTLS Library and left only one Build PYTHON suport after that, everything was good, last night was updated to 1.3.0 and tonight to 1.3.0_1, now, is that flag, GNUTLS is going to

Re: How to restart a freezed tty?

2007-09-29 Thread Brian A. Seklecki
On Sat, 2007-09-29 at 13:16 +0330, Bahman M. wrote: Hi all, For some reason all the ttys are frozen up; I can switch between X and them back and forth but not between the ttys themselves using ALT+Fn. Can you start new xterms? When you say 'frozen', do they not accept keyboard input? Is

Re: Deny access from localhost to internet.....

2007-09-29 Thread RW
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 02:22:42 +0200 Sten Daniel Soersdal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agus wrote: Hi guys, How are you today? The question is this..I want to restrict external access, that is from my BSD to the internet, to some groups of users. Other groups i want to access internet

Bridging interfaces

2007-09-29 Thread Simon Timms
Hello, I seem to be having some trouble bridging interfaces in FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE. What I have are two interfaces rl0 - 192.168.2.2 sis0 - 192.168.1.2 and a bridge I've set up following the pages in the handbook. However frames don't seem to be routed from one interface to the other. The

Re: Deny access from localhost to internet.....

2007-09-29 Thread Sten Daniel Soersdal
Agus wrote: Hi guys, How are you today? The question is this..I want to restrict external access, that is from my BSD to the internet, to some groups of users. Other groups i want to access internet normally. I dont want this group of users to be able to establish connections to the internet

Re: Bridging interfaces

2007-09-29 Thread Simon Timms
Thanks for your help Chris, I ended up rebooting the router since I wasn't sure what manner of nonsense I'd put in and everything is working. On 9/29/07, Christopher Cowart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 09:49:36PM -0600, Simon Timms wrote: That makes a lot of sense, but I

The FreeBSD Diary: 2007-09-09 - 2007-09-29

2007-09-29 Thread Dan Langille
The FreeBSD Diary contains a large number of practical examples and how-to guides. This message is posted weekly to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org with the aim of letting people know what's available on the website. Before you post a question here it might be a good idea to first search the

Re: Bridging interfaces

2007-09-29 Thread Christopher Cowart
On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 09:49:36PM -0600, Simon Timms wrote: That makes a lot of sense, but I suppose I still don't understand why this isn't working. The handbook section on routing is pretty basic and it seems to come down to setting net.inet.ip.forwarding to 1 if you want to route packets

Re: using the date command

2007-09-29 Thread Brian A. Seklecki
To set time: $ sudo /usr/sbin/ntpdate pool.ntp.org 29 Sep 23:48:31 ntpdate[9404]: adjust time server 66.250.45.2 offset 0.001289 sec To date info about your timezone settings: $ zdump /etc/localtime /etc/localtime Sat Sep 29 23:49:19 2007 EDT Options: $ ls /usr/shaoneinfo/ | egrep -v ^d

Re: Bridging interfaces

2007-09-29 Thread Simon Timms
That makes a lot of sense, but I suppose I still don't understand why this isn't working. The handbook section on routing is pretty basic and it seems to come down to setting net.inet.ip.forwarding to 1 if you want to route packets between interfaces on a dual-homed host. I'm able to reach hosts

Re: sshd+pam problem on a fresh 6.2-RELEASE (amd64) install

2007-09-29 Thread Josh Carroll
Any ideas? I tried doing an ldd on /usr/lib/pam* inside the /etc/rc.d/sshd script, but the output is identical when it starts up on boot as when I restart it. No missing libraries/etc. Problem solved! In going from 32-bit to 64-bit, my login.conf really needed to change. I had a default memory

Re: Bridging interfaces

2007-09-29 Thread Christopher Cowart
On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 07:06:55PM -0600, Simon Timms wrote: Hello, I seem to be having some trouble bridging interfaces in FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE. What I have are two interfaces rl0 - 192.168.2.2 sis0 - 192.168.1.2 and a bridge I've set up following the pages in the handbook. However

Re: FreeBSD 7.0, Open LDAP, PAM, TLS and NSS, howto?

2007-09-29 Thread Brian A. Seklecki
There should be an nss_ldap.conf and pam_ldap.conf in /usr/local/etc . You need to set a variety of settings there. What do they look like? Remember: pkg_info -L pam_ldap nss_ldap! Also, not sure about the TCP FIN_2 issue -- probably just the usual shakes and bangs with -current. ~BAS

Viewing jpegs with Mutt

2007-09-29 Thread Rem P Roberti
Is it possible to view jpegs inline using the Mutt MUA? If so, I would appreciate being directed to a site that would have that information. Thanks, Rem ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list

using the date command

2007-09-29 Thread jekillen
Hello all; I have built 4 machines and installed FreeBSD 6.0 in one and 6.2 in the other three. They are all using the wrong date and time. The last one (v6.2 on ecs mb with AMD64) is the worst. It is telling me today is Jan 3 2003 PST (I am on the west coast and it is still PDT). These machines