Re: rc.conf and loader.conf

2012-10-26 Thread Polytropon
On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 07:37:09 +0200 (CEST), Trond Endrestøl wrote: However, I like to keep the lines in the /etc/rc.conf file in the same order as they appear in the /etc/defaults/rc.conf file, and place local stuff (from /usr/local/etc/rc.d) in alphabetical order at the bottom of the file.

Re: rc.conf and loader.conf

2012-10-25 Thread Devin Teske
On Oct 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Ashkan Rahmani wrote: hi, what is the best order of items in rc.conf and loader.conf? actually items order is important? order does not matter (unless you have duplicates -- in which case later assignments override previous ones). -- Devin _ The

Re: rc.conf and loader.conf

2012-10-25 Thread Erich Dollansky
Hi, On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:47:29 +0330 Ashkan Rahmani ashkan...@gmail.com wrote: hi, what is the best order of items in rc.conf and loader.conf? actually items order is important? as you know already, the order does not matter at all. But there some modules which cannot coexist. I prefer

Re: rc.conf and loader.conf

2012-10-25 Thread Trond Endrestøl
On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:47+0330, Ashkan Rahmani wrote: hi, what is the best order of items in rc.conf and loader.conf? actually items order is important? Order is not important, as explained by someone else on the list. However, I like to keep the lines in the /etc/rc.conf file in the same

Re: rc.conf: gnome_enable=YES - which instructions executed?

2010-07-01 Thread Giorgos Keramidas
On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:10:41 -0700 (PDT), Chris Stankevitz chrisstankev...@yahoo.com wrote: My rc.conf file has this entry: gnome_enable=YES Q: Where on my hard drive can I find the instructions executed to enable GNOME? A: /usr/local/etc/rc.d/gnome [bad answer: file does not exist]

Re: rc.conf: gnome_enable=YES - which instructions executed?

2010-07-01 Thread Robert Bonomi
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:10:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Stankevitz chrisstankev...@yahoo.com Subject: rc.conf: gnome_enable=YES - which instructions executed? My rc.conf file has this entry: gnome_enable=YES Q: Where on my hard drive can I find the instructions executed to enable GNOME?

Re: rc.conf: gnome_enable=YES - which instructions executed?

2010-07-01 Thread RW
On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Chris Stankevitz chrisstankev...@yahoo.com wrote: I would like to learn more about how rc operates. I want to know where on the hard drive the instructions are located that activate when I say gnome_enable=YES. I naively thought I would find a file

Re: rc.conf: gnome_enable=YES - which instructions executed?

2010-06-30 Thread Dan Nelson
In the last episode (Jun 30), Chris Stankevitz said: My rc.conf file has this entry: gnome_enable=YES Q: Where on my hard drive can I find the instructions executed to enable GNOME? A: /usr/local/etc/rc.d/gnome [bad answer: file does not exist] Thank you, Try: grep name=.*gnome

Re: rc.conf: gnome_enable=YES - which instructions executed?

2010-06-30 Thread Rob Farmer
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Chris Stankevitz chrisstankev...@yahoo.com wrote: My rc.conf file has this entry: gnome_enable=YES Q: Where on my hard drive can I find the instructions executed to enable GNOME? This enables dbus, avahi, hal, and gdm (assuming that they are installed, of

Re: rc.conf: gnome_enable=YES - which instructions executed?

2010-06-30 Thread Chris Stankevitz
From: Dan Nelson dnel...@allantgroup.com Q: Where on my hard drive can I find the instructions executed to enable GNOME? Try: grep name=.*gnome /usr/local/etc/rc.d/* Thank you. This command returns nothing, but it got me looking in the right place. There are multiple references

Re: rc.conf: gnome_enable=YES - which instructions executed?

2010-06-30 Thread Chris Stankevitz
From: Rob Farmer rfar...@predatorlabs.net Q: Where on my hard drive can I find the instructions executed to enable GNOME? This enables dbus, avahi, hal, and gdm (assuming that they are installed, of course). See the files for those things in /usr/local/etc/rc.d for the details of what

Re: rc.conf: gnome_enable=YES - which instructions executed?

2010-06-30 Thread Kevin Kinsey
Chris Stankevitz wrote: From: Rob Farmer rfar...@predatorlabs.net Q: Where on my hard drive can I find the instructions executed to enable GNOME? This enables dbus, avahi, hal, and gdm (assuming that they are installed, of course). See the files for those things in /usr/local/etc/rc.d for the

Re: rc.conf when ssid has spaces in it: missing documentation or missing feature?

2009-06-11 Thread Glen Barber
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Yuriy...@rawbw.com wrote: I can't find any references in rc.conf(5) on how to set up ifconfig line if SSID has spaces which is very typical situation. ifconfig(8) doesn't mention this either but it works if I put quotes around it. I would assume spaces should

Re: rc.conf when ssid has spaces in it: missing documentation or missing feature?

2009-06-11 Thread Mel Flynn
On Thursday 11 June 2009 11:29:25 Yuri wrote: I can't find any references in rc.conf(5) on how to set up ifconfig line if SSID has spaces which is very typical situation. ifconfig(8) doesn't mention this either but it works if I put quotes around it. So escape use and escape the quotes with a

Re: rc.conf when ssid has spaces in it: missing documentation or missing feature?

2009-06-11 Thread Yuri
Mel Flynn wrote: So escape use and escape the quotes with a backslash. You may need more then one backslash, depending on the level of evaluation in /etc/rc.subr and /etc/rc.d/netif. I believe documentation should describe this since this is a major element of setting wireless network

Re: rc.conf when ssid has spaces in it: missing documentation or missing feature?

2009-06-11 Thread Mel Flynn
On Thursday 11 June 2009 11:55:15 Mel Flynn wrote: On Thursday 11 June 2009 11:29:25 Yuri wrote: I can't find any references in rc.conf(5) on how to set up ifconfig line if SSID has spaces which is very typical situation. ifconfig(8) doesn't mention this either but it works if I put quotes

Re: rc.conf when ssid has spaces in it: missing documentation or missing feature?

2009-06-11 Thread Mel Flynn
On Thursday 11 June 2009 12:03:56 Yuri wrote: Mel Flynn wrote: So escape use and escape the quotes with a backslash. You may need more then one backslash, depending on the level of evaluation in /etc/rc.subr and /etc/rc.d/netif. I believe documentation should describe this since this is a

Re: rc.conf and starting scripts

2009-03-02 Thread Jerry McAllister
On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 07:14:17PM -0800, gahn wrote: Hi all: I have some starting scripts under some other directories other than /etc/rc.d. How could I utilize the rc.conf file to start them when the system boots up? The default location for rc.conf is /etc/rc.d only and the knob

Re: rc.conf and starting scripts

2009-03-01 Thread Olivier Nicole
Hi, The default location for rc.conf is /etc/rc.d only and the knob local_startup=/usr/local/etc/rc.d doesn't seem to be working for me for some reasons Syntax? on my machines it's: local_startup=/usr/local/etc/rc.d with quotes around the path, not around the full line. Olivier

Re: rc.conf and starting scripts

2009-03-01 Thread RW
On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 19:14:17 -0800 (PST) gahn ipfr...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all: I have some starting scripts under some other directories other than /etc/rc.d. How could I utilize the rc.conf file to start them when the system boots up? The default location for rc.conf is /etc/rc.d only

Re: rc.conf and starting scripts

2009-03-01 Thread Polytropon
Allow me an addition: On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 03:53:24 +, RW rwmailli...@googlemail.com wrote: /usr/local/etc/rc.d is the default for local scripts, that's where package put their scripts, but there are some rules. - they should either be proper RCNG scripts or they should end in a .sh

Re: rc.conf ...need help

2007-02-07 Thread Don Munyak
On 2/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 06/02/07, Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 03:58:06PM -0500, Don Munyak wrote: How can I edit rc.conf while in single user mode. I've tried vi ee, but system doesn't recognize either. Thanks to

Re: rc.conf ...need help

2007-02-06 Thread John Nielsen
On Tuesday 06 February 2007 15:58, Don Munyak wrote: I was tweaking the /etc/rc.conf file and apparently had a typo. Now the system boots into single user mode. I know what my error is syslogd_enable=YES {left off the first } How can I edit rc.conf while in single user mode. I've tried vi

Re: rc.conf ...need help

2007-02-06 Thread Lowell Gilbert
Don Munyak [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was tweaking the /etc/rc.conf file and apparently had a typo. Now the system boots into single user mode. I know what my error is syslogd_enable=YES {left off the first } How can I edit rc.conf while in single user mode. I've tried vi ee, but system

Re: rc.conf ...need help

2007-02-06 Thread Jerry McAllister
On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 03:58:06PM -0500, Don Munyak wrote: Hello, I was tweaking the /etc/rc.conf file and apparently had a typo. Now the system boots into single user mode. I know what my error is syslogd_enable=YES {left off the first } How can I edit rc.conf while in single user

Re: rc.conf ...need help

2007-02-06 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 06/02/07, Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 03:58:06PM -0500, Don Munyak wrote: How can I edit rc.conf while in single user mode. I've tried vi ee, but system doesn't recognize either. It is probably not in your limited path in single user or not in a

Re: rc.conf

2007-01-23 Thread Andrew Pantyukhin
On 1/23/07, eoghan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Just a general question: should all values in rc.conf be in quotes... like: network_enable=rl0 rc.conf is just a bourne shell script, so all sh(1) rules apply (no one really knows _all_ the rules, though).

Re: rc.conf

2007-01-23 Thread George Vanev
In man rc.conf everything is written with double quotes ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: rc.conf

2007-01-23 Thread Jerry McAllister
On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 04:22:44PM +, eoghan wrote: Hi Just a general question: should all values in rc.conf be in quotes... like: network_enable=rl0 It is a good idea. I think, if there is no white space in the value, then you can get away without it, but maybe I have my shells

Re: rc.conf

2007-01-23 Thread eoghan
On 23 Jan 2007, at 18:26, Jerry McAllister wrote: Hi Just a general question: should all values in rc.conf be in quotes... like: network_enable=rl0 It is a good idea. I think, if there is no white space in the value, then you can get away without it, but maybe I have my shells confused in

Re: rc.conf

2007-01-23 Thread youshi10
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, eoghan wrote: On 23 Jan 2007, at 18:26, Jerry McAllister wrote: Hi Just a general question: should all values in rc.conf be in quotes... like: network_enable=rl0 It is a good idea. I think, if there is no white space in the value, then you can get away without it,

Re: rc.conf Where to put DNS Servers addresses

2007-01-07 Thread N.J. Mann
On Sunday, 7 January, 2007 at 13:05:04 +0100, VeeJay wrote: During installation, we provide DNS server address, Defaultrouter address, machin's IP address and Netmask address. I can find and change the IP, Netmask and Defaultrouter addresses in /etc/rc.conf. But where to find change DNS1

Re: rc.conf Where to put DNS Servers addresses

2007-01-07 Thread Nguyen Tam Chinh
Hello, You can change these parameters in /etc/resolv.conf. The man page resolver(5) would help you with the syntax. On 1/7/07, VeeJay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello friends During installation, we provide DNS server address, Defaultrouter address, machin's IP address and Netmask address. I

Re: rc.conf Where to put DNS Servers addresses

2007-01-07 Thread Daniel Molina Wegener
On Sunday 07 January 2007 09:05, VeeJay wrote: Hello friends Hello During installation, we provide DNS server address, Defaultrouter address, machin's IP address and Netmask address. I can find and change the IP, Netmask and Defaultrouter addresses in /etc/rc.conf. But where to find

Re: rc.conf Where to put DNS Servers addresses

2007-01-07 Thread Riemer Palstra
On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 01:05:04PM +0100, VeeJay wrote: In which file and what location, I can find the DNS Server IP address I gave during installation? /etc/resolv.conf, like on most Unix-like systems. You might want to try reading the Handbook though,

Re: rc.conf doesn't work after FreeBSD was updated from 5.3 to 5.4

2005-09-07 Thread Norberto Meijome
jia liu wrote: Sir: 1. I delete my src directory on 5.3-release(rm -fr) and was going to update to 5.4-release via source tree. 2. after cvsup, then buildworld, buildkernel, installkernel; finaly mergemaster, installworld on single user model. It seem everything is okay. 3. the problem

Re: rc.conf doesn't work after FreeBSD was updated from 5.3 to 5.4

2005-09-07 Thread Norberto Meijome
jia liu wrote: --- Norberto Meijome [EMAIL PROTECTED]写道: [...] please copy the list so others can help and the solution archived for others to see. Here is my rc.conf: #--sysinstall generated deltas--# Thu Sep 8 2005 ifconfig_dc0:inet 192.168.0.3 netmask 255.255.255.0 looks ok to me

Re: rc.conf - setting interface UP without IP-address?

2005-08-31 Thread Giorgos Keramidas
On 2005-08-31 11:02, Ewald Jenisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a way to set an interface UP using /etc/rc.conf without giving the interface an IP-address (i.e. neither static nor DHCP) Background: The machine in question has three Ethernet-IFs - one connects to the LAN (and has

Re: rc.conf - setting interface UP without IP-address?

2005-08-31 Thread Rein Kadastik
Excuse me for a silly question, but what the hell is UP? I know, what is IP, I know how ifconfig works, but wtf is UP? Rein Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On 2005-08-31 11:02, Ewald Jenisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a way to set an interface UP using /etc/rc.conf without giving

Re: rc.conf - setting interface UP without IP-address?

2005-08-31 Thread Ewald Jenisch
On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 02:41:45PM +0300, Rein Kadastik wrote: Excuse me for a silly question, but what the hell is UP? I know, what is IP, I know how ifconfig works, but wtf is UP? UP is the state of the interface. You can set an IF up/down to enable/disable the IF. Current state of an

Re: rc.conf - setting interface UP without IP-address?

2005-08-31 Thread Rein Kadastik
Thanks, the answer was just too simple for me to figure it out by myself :) Rein Ewald Jenisch wrote: On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 02:41:45PM +0300, Rein Kadastik wrote: Excuse me for a silly question, but what the hell is UP? I know, what is IP, I know how ifconfig works, but wtf is UP?

Re: rc.conf - setting interface UP without IP-address?

2005-08-31 Thread Ewald Jenisch
On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 01:36:32PM +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: Try up (lowercase) instead. Thanks much for the hint! This absolutely does the trick - now I've got all my interfaces up ;-) Regards, -ewald ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org

Re: rc.conf - setting interface UP without IP-address?

2005-08-31 Thread Pavel Jordák
On 31 Srpen 2005, 11:02, Ewald Jenisch napsal(a): Hi, I'm looking for a way to set an interface UP using /etc/rc.conf without giving the interface an IP-address (i.e. neither static nor DHCP) Background: The machine in question has three Ethernet-IFs - one connects to the LAN (and has an

Re: rc.conf reloaded

2005-03-15 Thread Giorgos Keramidas
On 2005-03-15 08:33, Bernt Hansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I want to reread the rc.conf file without reboot. Why? What you probably want is to apply some change in the settings of rc.conf. This can usually be done by restarting just the affected components. There *are* a few changes

Re: rc.conf reloaded

2005-03-15 Thread Jeff Wirth
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:33:26 +0100, Bernt Hansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I want to reread the rc.conf file without reboot. How does one do that? /etc/netstart restarts the network but /etc/rc.conf does nothing. Is it me or... FAQs for FreeBSD:

Re: rc.conf reloaded

2005-03-15 Thread Bernt Hansson
Jeff Wirth skrev: FAQs for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/admin.html#REREAD-RC Recent thread on freebsd-questions: (reload rc.conf without rebooting) http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/htdig/freebsd-questions/2005-March/thread.html#79339 Thanks Jeff. It seems like one

Re: rc.conf reloaded

2005-03-15 Thread Giorgos Keramidas
On 2005-03-15 19:31, Bernt Hansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Wirth skrev: FAQs for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/admin.html#REREAD-RC Recent thread on freebsd-questions: (reload rc.conf without rebooting)

Re: rc.conf and new startup scripts

2004-12-02 Thread Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P.
Cezar Fistik wrote: Hi all, I would like to get some info about changes to startup scripts that are in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/ directory. It looks like they are completely different now... calls to some strange functions etc. How do they relate to rc.conf? I mean now I need to tell in rc.conf:

Re: rc.conf and new startup scripts

2004-12-02 Thread Cezar Fistik
, December 02, 2004 6:11 PM Subject: Re: rc.conf and new startup scripts Cezar Fistik wrote: Hi all, I would like to get some info about changes to startup scripts that are in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/ directory. It looks like they are completely different now... calls to some strange functions

Re: rc.conf

2004-06-25 Thread Bill Moran
Chris limina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm running bsd 5.2.1 there is a syntax error in my rc.conf what course of action do i take to repair it without having to re-install. There should be a way to easily fix this. but none of the boot options allow me to edit that file. I'm

Re: rc.conf

2004-06-25 Thread Kathy Quinlan
Chris limina wrote: I'm running bsd 5.2.1 there is a syntax error in my rc.conf what course of action do i take to repair it without having to re-install. There should be a way to easily fix this. but none of the boot options allow me to edit that file. elighten me please. Read the

Re: rc.conf not working

2004-02-13 Thread Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P.
Michael Goodman wrote: I just cvsup'd from 4.9 to 5.2. After the reboot I noticed that my nics weren't configured. Tried reconfiguring them using /stand/sysinstall but no luck. I tried manually sourcing /etc/rc.conf but nothing changes. I can't find any errors in syslog. Any ideas? Thanks

RE: rc.conf

2004-02-11 Thread Leon Verheem
in /etc/ run ./netstart -Original Message- From: DerAlSem [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 February 2004 01:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: rc.conf Hello freebsd-newbies, I've made some changes to rc.conf. Is there a way to apply them without rebooting entire system? (i've

Re: RC.conf

2003-09-17 Thread Josh Paetzel
On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 06:00:36PM -0700, Shawn Guillemette wrote: I'm looking for an example of /etc/rc.conf that's from a machine that is running nat.. I had this running at one time a nd now need to reinstall and want to rebuild,., I just cant remember what I added to rc.conf

Re: RC.conf

2003-09-17 Thread Danny Horne
- Original Message - From: Josh Paetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Shawn Guillemette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:09 PM Subject: Re: RC.conf On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 06:00:36PM -0700, Shawn Guillemette wrote: I'm looking for an example

Re: RC.conf

2003-09-17 Thread Shawn Guillemette
natd is what I was looking for.. Thank you - Original Message - From: Danny Horne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Josh Paetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Shawn Guillemette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: RC.conf - Original Message

RE: RC.conf

2003-09-17 Thread Gil Agno Virtucio
This is what i have in my rc.conf. gateway_enable=YES natd_enable=YES natd_interface=xl0 natd_flags=-f /etc/natd.conf firewall_enable=YES firewall_script=/etc/rules/firewall1 ipfilter_enable=YES # This is for squids transparent proxy ipnat_enable=YES ipmon_enable=YES ipfs_enable=YES I hope this

Re: rc.conf in 5.1?

2003-06-14 Thread Kjell Midtseter
On Saturday, 14 June 2003 at 21:38:41 +0200, Markus Svensson wrote: Hi all! I've just finished src upgrading my 5.0R box to 5.1R. I've got one small problem though. After the upgrade, the system no longer seems to use /etc/rc.conf during startup. This means that my ADSL-connection does not

Re: rc.conf in 5.1?

2003-06-14 Thread P. U. Kruppa
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Kjell Midtseter wrote: On Saturday, 14 June 2003 at 21:38:41 +0200, Markus Svensson wrote: Hi all! I've just finished src upgrading my 5.0R box to 5.1R. I've got one small problem though. After the upgrade, the system no longer seems to use /etc/rc.conf during

Re: rc.conf

2003-03-21 Thread Sunil Sunder Raj
Hi, It depends on what parameters you have changed in rc.conf. For example if you have changed the hostname then go to the /etc directory grep hostname * You will find the search resulting in a shell script file. Here it is rc.network: hostname ${hostname} Then just run that shell

RE: rc.conf

2003-03-21 Thread Fredrick Nilsson
you could use the script netstart that resides in /etc.. but from my experience, it doesnt work too well... another soloution is to sthutdown now and then exit.. .f -Original Message- From: Tiago Andre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 12:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: rc.conf

2003-03-21 Thread Bill Moran
Tiago Andre wrote: How do i compile my rc.conf file? whidout restar the pc You can't. The settings in rc.conf affect a number of different startup scripts. I don't know of any way to reliably incorporate all rc.conf changes into a running system. On the flip side, if you know what you changed, you

Re: rc.conf syntax for ip alias on external nic

2003-02-10 Thread Matthew Emmerton
All aliases on the same subnet need to use a netmask of 255.255.255.255, as described in the ifconfig man page. This is what you should be doing: ifconfig_xl0=inet 129.x.x.35 netmask 255.255.255.0 ifconfig_xl0_alias0=inet 129.x.x.6 netmask 255.255.255.255 ifconfig_xl0_alias1=inet 129.x.x.5

Re: rc.conf

2002-12-17 Thread Thomas Spreng
Hi, On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 01:32:03PM +, Tiago Andre wrote: How do i compile my rc.conf you dont need to, its read on each startup... Thanks Tiago Camilo To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message

Re: rc.conf

2002-12-17 Thread Aleksey I. Yurlov
Try to look in /etc/defaults/rc.conf variables that can be in /etc/rc.conf for ex. if you need some tunnings about firewall - do something like this: grep -i fire /etc/defaults/rc.conf /etc/rc.conf Thomas Spreng wrote: Hi, On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 01:32:03PM +, Tiago Andre wrote: How

RE: rc.conf and adding a command

2002-07-16 Thread Allan McDonald
Hi, I use the following, it works for me.. natd_program=/sbin/natd natd_enable=YES natd_interface=xl0 # Public interface or IPaddress to use. natd_flags=-s -m -redirect_port tcp 10.0.1.60:http 8080 Regards Allan McDonald -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL