Re: Backup with mtree and rsync?
schu...@ime.usp.br writes: I have been wondering whether it is possible to create a backup system using mtree and rsync. Essentially, the user would create a mtree specification of the source directory and copy it over to the destination directory with rsync. Any changes in the destination could then be detected before restoring with the mtree specification, which should contain strong hashes of the files and should not contain the nlink keyword. The problem is that mtree would be too slow. It would recompute the hashes of big files even when they did not change from the last backup. Therefore, I would like to ask if there is an easy way to accomplish the following. Let a mtree specification of a directory from a certain point in the past be given. Also, assume that a (regular) file below that directory has not changed if its current modification time (mtime) equals its modification time in the past specification. Produce as output the new mtree specification for the directory without reading these files. This is somewhat like rsync does to perform incremental backups. Except that you have a spec for mtree to be sure the backup copy hasn't been corrupted. I don't see any way to do this directly. What you probably want to do is use find(1) to pick out the new files to check, and then merge the changes into the old mtree(8) spec. Not trivial, but the spec syntax is intended to be easy to parse, so it shouldn't be that hard either. P.S.: As an aside, is there an utility in the base system that can reproduce the behavior of `rsync --delete -a dir0/ dir1/`? It's possible that the mtree support in tar(8) might be able to do it, but it would probably be a lot slower. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup with mtree and rsync?
I don't see any way to do this directly. What you probably want to do is use find(1) to pick out the new files to check, and then merge the changes into the old mtree(8) spec. Not trivial, but the spec syntax is intended to be easy to parse, so it shouldn't be that hard either. What I am currently doing somewhat fits your description. I feed find output into a C program that merges the old description with the directory state to produce a new description. However, I use a format different than mtree. I was seeking a shorter, more elegant, solution. It's possible that the mtree support in tar(8) might be able to do it, but it would probably be a lot slower. Wait, can tar be used to remove files? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup with mtree and rsync?
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:57:39 -0200, schu...@ime.usp.br wrote: It's possible that the mtree support in tar(8) might be able to do it, but it would probably be a lot slower. Wait, can tar be used to remove files? No (not directly, except overwriting directories with content), but cpdup can; see man cpdup for details and inspiration. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup with mtree and rsync?
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:12 PM, schu...@ime.usp.br wrote: I have been wondering whether it is possible to create a backup system using mtree and rsync. Essentially, the user would create a mtree specification of the source directory and copy it over to the destination directory with rsync. Any changes in the destination could then be detected before restoring with the mtree specification, which should contain strong hashes of the files and should not contain the nlink keyword. A little bit off-topic, but there is a small tool that does something similar to your suggested `mtree` usage, but specifically tailored for backups, `rdup`: http://miek.nl/projects/rdup Although I've not used it myself (I use `rdiff-backup` and on Linux), the idea is pretty similar with what you want to achieve: * you run `rdup` with an old descriptor file plus a target path, and in turn it generates: * a new descriptor file; * a list of files that should be backed up; * you then decide what you do with the list of files to be backed-up (i.e. put them in a `tar`, `rysnc` them to a server, etc.); Hope it helps, Ciprian. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup with mtree and rsync?
I apparently reinvented the wheel. :-) Thanks for the link, it is indeed very inspiring. Quoting Ciprian Dorin Craciun ciprian.crac...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:12 PM, schu...@ime.usp.br wrote: I have been wondering whether it is possible to create a backup system using mtree and rsync. Essentially, the user would create a mtree specification of the source directory and copy it over to the destination directory with rsync. Any changes in the destination could then be detected before restoring with the mtree specification, which should contain strong hashes of the files and should not contain the nlink keyword. A little bit off-topic, but there is a small tool that does something similar to your suggested `mtree` usage, but specifically tailored for backups, `rdup`: http://miek.nl/projects/rdup Although I've not used it myself (I use `rdiff-backup` and on Linux), the idea is pretty similar with what you want to achieve: * you run `rdup` with an old descriptor file plus a target path, and in turn it generates: * a new descriptor file; * a list of files that should be backed up; * you then decide what you do with the list of files to be backed-up (i.e. put them in a `tar`, `rysnc` them to a server, etc.); Hope it helps, Ciprian. schu...@ime.usp.br ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup with mtree and rsync?
No (not directly, except overwriting directories with content), but cpdup can; see man cpdup for details and inspiration. True, but cpdup is not part of the base system. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
My criteria for procedures are: 1. They should minimize the need for additional software beyond the base system as much as reasonably possible. This means not only that I do not good idea. 3. They should provide for incremental backups. do backed up laptops use FreeBSD or have another filesystem. 4. They should provide for the ability to quickly and easily test backup integrity without restoring the backups anywhere, which most likely means some kind of checksum comparisons akin to what rsync provides. 5. They should allow for transferring data from the system to be backed up to the backup server via SSH. there is precisely one tool you need. /usr/ports/net/rsync there is many distros of rsync for windoze if laptops run it. Not sure what actually works but i can check if you wish. i use rsync for backup server, just config is different: my server is behind NAT, and it connects to backed up server with rsync man rsync and read carefully, don't forget -b option it's very useful ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Maybe take a look at lftp, at the mirror option. For basic demands its a compact solution. Cheers herb langhans -- sprachtraining langhans herbert langhans, warschau herbert.raimund[at]gmx.net herbert[at]langhans.com.pl http://www.langhans.com.pl +0048 603 341 441 | jabber:herbs | icq:414500866 | yahoo_im:herbert.raimund ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Maybe take a look at lftp, at the mirror option. For basic demands its a compact solution. try doing backup of things with 1 dirs and million files and certainly you will understand you need rsync. ftp protocol is plain bad for that. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 06:37:17PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:47:40PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: I'm setting up a new backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by cron or other scheduled procedures. What are the laptops running? FreeBSD, Debian, and/or Ubuntu. There's at least one of each. I apologize for not mentioning that sooner. I had a feeling I'd overlook something. Hmm, I'm not sure that there is _anything_ that meets _all_ your criteria! For backing up complete systems (including boot blocks) I've used Clonezilla Live to good effect. On the several standalone systems I tried it on, it managed around 1 GiB/minute, backing up to a USB HDD. It can also back-up to a ssh, samba or nfs server. Of course this doesn't do incremental backups, and it is GPL. If you don't care about the OS, and just want to back up the user's data, I guess rsync would be the way to go. This in turn will not save the boot block, although you could use dd for that I guess. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://rsmith.home.xs4all.nl/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgph34aKSfOky.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: backup tools
Hmm, I'm not sure that there is _anything_ that meets _all_ your criteria! rsync meets. It can be a little harder with windoze, with any unix-like OS it will work. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:49:39 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: Maybe take a look at lftp, at the mirror option. For basic demands its a compact solution. try doing backup of things with 1 dirs and million files and certainly you will understand you need rsync. In addition to rsync, which is regarded the default tool for the described action, maybe cpdup is worth looking at. It also has the ability to maintain incremental backups (add changes). ftp protocol is plain bad for that. And insecure unless tunneled through some encryption (which might be important when backups appear inside a network with non-trusted participants, or across the Internet). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
lftp does work incremental. Take a look at Chad's posting again and read what he needs. And of course, ftp via ssh is nothing new ... Cheers herb langhans On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:22:04AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:49:39 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: Maybe take a look at lftp, at the mirror option. For basic demands its a compact solution. try doing backup of things with 1 dirs and million files and certainly you will understand you need rsync. In addition to rsync, which is regarded the default tool for the described action, maybe cpdup is worth looking at. It also has the ability to maintain incremental backups (add changes). ftp protocol is plain bad for that. And insecure unless tunneled through some encryption (which might be important when backups appear inside a network with non-trusted participants, or across the Internet). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... -- sprachtraining langhans herbert langhans, warschau herbert.raimund[at]gmx.net herbert[at]langhans.com.pl http://www.langhans.com.pl +0048 603 341 441 | jabber:herbs | icq:414500866 | yahoo_im:herbert.raimund ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
lftp does work incremental. Take a look at Chad's posting again and read what he needs. And of course, ftp via ssh is nothing new ... still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:10:06AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: lftp does work incremental. Take a look at Chad's posting again and read what he needs. And of course, ftp via ssh is nothing new ... still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. That's sure. But I think it's an option for the laptops what Chad mentioned. Such scripts for backup are set up in minutes and it happily copies the files to the server. If there are already user accounts on the server, it could be really easy. I think it depends on the scale of the network. Cheers herb langhans ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
At 02:37 23/06/2012, Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:47:40PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: I'm setting up a new backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by cron or other scheduled procedures. What are the laptops running? FreeBSD, Debian, and/or Ubuntu. There's at least one of each. I apologize for not mentioning that sooner. I had a feeling I'd overlook something. If it must work with all OS and you have no restrictions on network you can: a) activate PXE/WOL on bios b) start the laptop via PXE using a freebsd/linux/whatever_os_you_want_to_use c) use dd piped to rsync to make the backups This way you don't need to install anything on your freebsd ubuntu debian. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. That's sure. But I think it's an option for the laptops what Chad only if $HOME directly or part of it is copied and nothing more ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
a) activate PXE/WOL on bios b) start the laptop via PXE using a freebsd/linux/whatever_os_you_want_to_use c) use dd piped to rsync to make the backups not really efficient but working. ntfsprogs from ports can be helpful. you may use ntfsmount and access NTFS files directly. if backup is done over fast LAN, ntfsclone -s is useful ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012, Eduardo Morras wrote: At 02:37 23/06/2012, Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:47:40PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: I'm setting up a new backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by cron or other scheduled procedures. What are the laptops running? FreeBSD, Debian, and/or Ubuntu. There's at least one of each. I apologize for not mentioning that sooner. I had a feeling I'd overlook something. If it must work with all OS and you have no restrictions on network you can: a) activate PXE/WOL on bios b) start the laptop via PXE using a freebsd/linux/whatever_os_you_want_to_use c) use dd piped to rsync to make the backups This way you don't need to install anything on your freebsd ubuntu debian. PXE booting gives a lot of possibilities. I use it to boot Clonezilla to back up Windows systems. That is better than dd, since only used disk blocks are copied. But neither does incremental backups. For FreeBSD and other open operating systems, sysutils/rsnapshot is a possibility. Normally run from cron, could be run manually, or automatically when the backup server is detected. It does incremental copies, is space-efficient (rsync with hard links), and only depends on rsync and Perl. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Wojciech Puchar:
Hmm, I'm not sure that there is _anything_ that meets _all_ your criteria!
rsync meets. It can be a little harder with windoze, with any unix-like OS
it will work.
rsync, or some front-end to rsync, is indeed probably the best option, though
it lacks several of the features that the OP indicates would be desirable.
For several years I've used dirvish to good effect. It's built on rsync and
handles unattended backups over heterogeneous networks quite well. It shares
some of rsync's deficiencies, but for me, its merits (well-structured
simplifications of rsync's ability to exclude files or directories, elegant
handling of backups' expirations) are sufficient to make it a worthy
alternative to naked rsync. The frontend is written in Perl and easily
extended.
By heterogeneous networks I'm afraid I mean ones composed of machines running
unix-like OSs; I've no idea if there's an rsync port to Windows.
Jorge
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Re: backup tools
what exactly deficiences and requirements not met by rsync are you talking about? simplifications of rsync's ability to exclude files or directories, elegant handling of backups' expirations) are sufficient to make it a worthy alternative to naked rsync. The frontend is written in Perl and easily extended. By heterogeneous networks I'm afraid I mean ones composed of machines running unix-like OSs; I've no idea if there's an rsync port to Windows. there are many. I know people using it ... after they know how useful it is based on my examples. No idea how stable and usable they are. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
PXE booting gives a lot of possibilities. I use it to boot Clonezilla to back up Windows systems. That is better than dd, since only used disk blocks ntfsclone is what you need. for sure simpler. For FreeBSD and other open operating systems, sysutils/rsnapshot is a what is exactly rsnapshot added value to rsync, and what is exactly this fuss about hardlinks? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Wojciech Puchar wrote:
what exactly deficiences and requirements not met by rsync are you talking
about?
Perhaps deficiencies was too strong a word. I think the OP required--or
perhaps desired--a WOL function. I'm not aware of any such capability in rsync
proper. I meant, too, that dirvish, which was the alternative that I
recommended, presents an elegant and easily-comprehended way to manage rsync's
considerable abilities, not that it provides features that can't be managed
directly by rsync.
By heterogeneous networks I'm afraid I mean ones composed of machines
running
unix-like OSs; I've no idea if there's an rsync port to Windows.
there are many. I know people using it ... after they know how useful it
is based on my examples. No idea how stable and usable they are.
Thanks for pointing out that there are Windows ports of rsync, and that you
provide examples of their use. I'm not sure I would entrust my system backups
to them if they come with the disclaimer that you've no idea how stable and
usable they are.
Jorge
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Re: backup tools
you mean wake on lan? there is wol tool in ports. proper. I meant, too, that dirvish, which was the alternative that I recommended, presents an elegant and easily-comprehended way to manage rsync's considerable abilities, not that it provides features that can't be managed directly by rsync. fine but i really want to manage features directly by specifying a commands. thanks for answer, but i really don't recommend anyone using all in one tools as it's always to have problems with one than with all. there are many. I know people using it ... after they know how useful it is based on my examples. No idea how stable and usable they are. Thanks for pointing out that there are Windows ports of rsync, and that you provide examples of their use. I'm not sure I would entrust my system backups to them if they come with the disclaimer that you've no idea how stable and usable they are. google rsync for windows. It is not a danger if you run this no really sure tools from windoze and you see whether it finished work properly or not. syncback works fine and is used by me. but it is not high performance, it can use only FTP or windows share destination. for backing up my documents it is fine anyway. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Thanks for pointing out that there are Windows ports of rsync, and that you provide examples of their use. I'm not sure I would entrust my system backups to them if they come with the disclaimer that you've no idea how stable and usable they are. http://justinsomnia.org/2007/02/how-to-regularly-backup-windows-xp-to-ubuntu-using-rsync/ might be useful for you, after you ignore all this linux style sudo nonsense. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 09:46:02AM -0400, Jorge Luis Gonzalez wrote: Wojciech Puchar wrote: what exactly deficiences and requirements not met by rsync are you talking about? Perhaps deficiencies was too strong a word. I think the OP required--or perhaps desired--a WOL function. I'm not aware of any such capability in rsync proper. I meant, too, that dirvish, which was the alternative that I recommended, presents an elegant and easily-comprehended way to manage rsync's considerable abilities, not that it provides features that can't be managed directly by rsync. Actually, a Wake-On-LAN feature is not at all necessary for me in this case. It's a simple enough task to just trigger a backup manually at the command line via a script that automates the process. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:17:36AM +0200, herbert langhans wrote: On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:10:06AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: lftp does work incremental. Take a look at Chad's posting again and read what he needs. And of course, ftp via ssh is nothing new ... still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. That's sure. But I think it's an option for the laptops what Chad mentioned. Such scripts for backup are set up in minutes and it happily copies the files to the server. If there are already user accounts on the server, it could be really easy. I think it depends on the scale of the network. It does appear to meet my needs, at first glance, with any capabilities it does not already have that I might need easily scripted. I'm having a difficult time finding any reference to licensing, though. Matt Dillon's explanation of cpdup suggests it is probably some kind of BSD-licensed, given its inclusion in DragonFly BSD base utilities, but that's not *necessarily* the case. Reference: http://apollo.backplane.com/FreeSrc/ I'm going to try emailing Dillon for clarification, too. In any case, I'll take a closer look at cpdup. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Actually, a Wake-On-LAN feature is not at all necessary for me in this case. It's a simple enough task to just trigger a backup manually at the command line via a script that automates the process. still. a separate wol tool is available in ports. You may easily construct shell script that will execute it, wait a bit, check out if server booted with ping, then wait a bit more (so inetd or rsyncd started) then run rsync. Unix philosophy means have one program to do think well, not to do everything. This is what make me an exclusive unix fanatics. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: I'm setting up a new backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by cron or other scheduled procedures. What are the laptops running? Roland -- R.F.Smith http://rsmith.home.xs4all.nl/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpzbtvy014nJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: backup tools
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:47:40PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: I'm setting up a new backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by cron or other scheduled procedures. What are the laptops running? FreeBSD, Debian, and/or Ubuntu. There's at least one of each. I apologize for not mentioning that sooner. I had a feeling I'd overlook something. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: I'm setting up a new backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by cron or other scheduled procedures. I'm trying to decide on what tools to use for managing backups. In the past I have used rsync, which has worked reasonably well, but fails one of my desired criteria for the new backup procedures, and is less than ideal for others. One's I use or have used: sysutils/rdiff-backup sysutils/tarsnap misc/amanda-server -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:14:34PM -0500, Adam Vande More wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: I'm setting up a new backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by cron or other scheduled procedures. I'm trying to decide on what tools to use for managing backups. In the past I have used rsync, which has worked reasonably well, but fails one of my desired criteria for the new backup procedures, and is less than ideal for others. One's I use or have used: sysutils/rdiff-backup sysutils/tarsnap misc/amanda-server Unfortunately, one of those is GPL, another is subject to proprietary licensing, and the last has a bunch of (otherwise unnecessary on the server) GNU project dependencies. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Bacula is the tool Enviado desde mi iPod El 22/06/2012, a las 8:31 p.m., Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com escribió: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:14:34PM -0500, Adam Vande More wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: I'm setting up a new backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by cron or other scheduled procedures. I'm trying to decide on what tools to use for managing backups. In the past I have used rsync, which has worked reasonably well, but fails one of my desired criteria for the new backup procedures, and is less than ideal for others. One's I use or have used: sysutils/rdiff-backup sysutils/tarsnap misc/amanda-server Unfortunately, one of those is GPL, another is subject to proprietary licensing, and the last has a bunch of (otherwise unnecessary on the server) GNU project dependencies. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Este mensaje y/o sus anexos son para uso exclusivo de su destinatario intencional y puede contener información legalmente protegida por ser confidencial. Si usted no es el destinatario intencional del mensaje por favor infórmenos de inmediato y elimínelo, así como sus anexos. Igualmente, le comunicamos que cualquier retención, revisión no autorizada, distribución, divulgación, reenvío, copia, impresión, reproducción, o uso indebido de este mensaje y/o sus anexos, está estrictamente prohibida y sancionada legalmente. EDATEL S.A. no se hace responsable en ningún caso por daños derivados de la recepción del presente mensaje. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Backup strategy for zfs + jail
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of bsd Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:04 PM To: Liste FreeBSD Subject: Backup strategy for zfs + jail Hi, I have a simple 1U server with two disks that I have configured as a jail server. I want to setup a simple yet very efficient backup policy for my jail environment. This server is running a ZFS filesystem. Ideally I would like to backup the main zfsroot/jail and all subdirectories on a backup FTP server. . What kind of tool would you suggest ? I need to focus on : -- Simplicity of setup -- Ease of recovery -- Efficiency -- Compatibility with ZFS If you're running 9, give HAST a shot. TCP/IP block-level mirroring provided by HAST should be able to mirror the ZFS container in near-RT and be tolerant of things like network issues. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup strategy for zfs + jail
On 17-01-2012, Tue [13:52:48], Devin Teske wrote: -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of bsd Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:04 PM To: Liste FreeBSD Subject: Backup strategy for zfs + jail Hi, I have a simple 1U server with two disks that I have configured as a jail server. I want to setup a simple yet very efficient backup policy for my jail environment. This server is running a ZFS filesystem. Ideally I would like to backup the main zfsroot/jail and all subdirectories on a backup FTP server. . What kind of tool would you suggest ? I need to focus on : -- Simplicity of setup -- Ease of recovery -- Efficiency -- Compatibility with ZFS If you're running 9, give HAST a shot. TCP/IP block-level mirroring provided by HAST should be able to mirror the ZFS container in near-RT and be tolerant of things like network issues. -- Devin I personally wouldn't rely on such a new technology as HAST, considering the importancy of backups. ZFS has some nice features already. Create snapshots of your datasets and use zfs send. You can even transfer differences between snapshots. Google for it. ZFS is awesome modern technology, more than that it's stable enough. ;) -- Best wishes, Dmitry Sarkisov --\ ---+-- --/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Backup strategy for zfs + jail
-- Efficiency -- Compatibility with ZFS If you're running 9, give HAST a shot. maybe a stupid question but what is a practical difference between hast and doing ggate+gmirror and setting prefer load balancing to local disk? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup strategy for zfs + jail
Create snapshots of your datasets and use zfs send. You can even transfer differences between snapshots. and then try to recover data from these backups after a year or so ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup strategy for zfs + jail
Le 17 janv. 2012 à 22:52, Devin Teske a écrit : -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of bsd Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:04 PM To: Liste FreeBSD Subject: Backup strategy for zfs + jail Hi, I have a simple 1U server with two disks that I have configured as a jail server. I want to setup a simple yet very efficient backup policy for my jail environment. This server is running a ZFS filesystem. Ideally I would like to backup the main zfsroot/jail and all subdirectories on a backup FTP server. . What kind of tool would you suggest ? I need to focus on : -- Simplicity of setup -- Ease of recovery -- Efficiency -- Compatibility with ZFS If you're running 9, give HAST a shot. TCP/IP block-level mirroring provided by HAST should be able to mirror the ZFS container in near-RT and be tolerant of things like network issues. Though HAST seems quite interesting I am not looking for a cluster solution. My FTP server is provided by my ISP, and Ideally I would like something that feets in that solution… So something like ZFS snapshots + some syncing level FTP service that will do the copy to the remote location… I don't really know if this approach will work with a ZFS snapshot, I use to work at file level using duplicity… works well though a bit heavy ! G.B. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. –– - Grégory Bernard Director - --- www.osnet.eu --- -- Your provider of OpenSource appliances -- –– OSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetO ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup strategy for zfs + jail
On 17-01-2012, Tue [23:31:30], Wojciech Puchar wrote: Create snapshots of your datasets and use zfs send. You can even transfer differences between snapshots. and then try to recover data from these backups after a year or so ;) No one did mention the retention policy ;) Jokes aside, we have a working solution with zfs/symantec netbackup combo based on incremental snapshots for a pretty large datasets. To OP: you don't have to use ftp with zfs send/recieve (I doubt it is possible at all :) ), ssh suits better. Just _google_ for it. There are plenty of solutions/examples in the Net. -- Best wishes, Dmitry Sarkisov --\ ---+-- --/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
Dominic Fandrey wrote: per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I wish to use the \033]0;%s\007 sequence in a shell-script to set the title of a terminal. But only if I am able to undo it. My requirement is that this must be done without using anything outside the base system. There is an escape sequence which will cause the terminal to echo back its current title, but it's a bit tricky to use given only base-system tools because the echo ends with, IIRC, \007 rather than \n. It may be possible in some shells to temporarily set the line-end character to \007. You probably also want to (somehow) cover problematic cases like terminals that don't reply to the inquiry even though TERMCAP implies that they should. That actually doesn't sound tricky at all, remember that the original sequence to change the title also ends with \007. Where can I find this magical sequence? I've been trying to read: http://www.xfree86.org/current/ctlseqs.html But the Syntax is really cryptic. I finally got it: printf \033[22;0t This stores the current icon and window titles on a stack. printf \033[23;0t This restores them from the stack. It works fine with xterm, has no effect on rxvt-unicode (which I am using), though. That might well be a termcap problem. I've got to look into this. -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
On Sun, Feb 07, 2010 at 09:49:54AM +0100, Dominic Fandrey wrote: Dominic Fandrey wrote: per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I wish to use the \033]0;%s\007 sequence in a shell-script to set the title of a terminal. But only if I am able to undo it. My requirement is that this must be done without using anything outside the base system. There is an escape sequence which will cause the terminal to echo back its current title, but it's a bit tricky to use given only base-system tools because the echo ends with, IIRC, \007 rather than \n. It may be possible in some shells to temporarily set the line-end character to \007. You probably also want to (somehow) cover problematic cases like terminals that don't reply to the inquiry even though TERMCAP implies that they should. That actually doesn't sound tricky at all, remember that the original sequence to change the title also ends with \007. Where can I find this magical sequence? I've been trying to read: http://www.xfree86.org/current/ctlseqs.html But the Syntax is really cryptic. I finally got it: printf \033[22;0t This stores the current icon and window titles on a stack. printf \033[23;0t This restores them from the stack. It works fine with xterm, has no effect on rxvt-unicode (which I am using), though. That might well be a termcap problem. I've got to look into this. Not a termcap problem. A terminal problem rather. This storing title on a stack stuff is something very few terminals support. Recent xterms does, but few if any others. Other terminals will at best have sequences for set title and read current title. -- Insert your favourite quote here. Erik Trulsson ertr1...@student.uu.se ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
Erik Trulsson wrote: On Sun, Feb 07, 2010 at 09:49:54AM +0100, Dominic Fandrey wrote: Dominic Fandrey wrote: per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I wish to use the \033]0;%s\007 sequence in a shell-script to set the title of a terminal. But only if I am able to undo it. My requirement is that this must be done without using anything outside the base system. There is an escape sequence which will cause the terminal to echo back its current title, but it's a bit tricky to use given only base-system tools because the echo ends with, IIRC, \007 rather than \n. It may be possible in some shells to temporarily set the line-end character to \007. You probably also want to (somehow) cover problematic cases like terminals that don't reply to the inquiry even though TERMCAP implies that they should. That actually doesn't sound tricky at all, remember that the original sequence to change the title also ends with \007. Where can I find this magical sequence? I've been trying to read: http://www.xfree86.org/current/ctlseqs.html But the Syntax is really cryptic. I finally got it: printf \033[22;0t This stores the current icon and window titles on a stack. printf \033[23;0t This restores them from the stack. It works fine with xterm, has no effect on rxvt-unicode (which I am using), though. That might well be a termcap problem. I've got to look into this. Not a termcap problem. A terminal problem rather. This storing title on a stack stuff is something very few terminals support. Recent xterms does, but few if any others. You're right my testing confirms that. I used the official termcap info from urxvt (needed some reformatting to use it) and it didn't fix the problem. Other terminals will at best have sequences for set title and read current title. Unfortunately the sequence to return the title seems to be implemented (it returns the surrounding sequence as described in http://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html), but the string in there is empty. I contacted the main developer of rxvt-unicode with my problem. I figure the stack solution is the most traditional and convenient approch in my opinion. Maybe he'll agree. -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 10:04:49PM -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: What's the sequence for reading the terminal title? If I remembered it I'd have included it :) The first 3 results from Googling xterm escape sequences are This is where to start (the other ones are older versions): http://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html By the way, it's the first hit when I ask google the same question. rtfm.etla.org/xterm/ctlseq.html www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Xterm-Title.html www.kitebird.com/csh-tcsh-book/ctlseqs.pdf I'd expect it to be in at least one of them. That's a nice assumption. However... -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net pgp34PRPxLogu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: backup terminal title
On Sun, Feb 07, 2010 at 09:49:54AM +0100, Dominic Fandrey wrote: I finally got it: printf \033[22;0t This stores the current icon and window titles on a stack. printf \033[23;0t This restores them from the stack. It works fine with xterm, has no effect on rxvt-unicode (which I am using), though. I wouldn't expect it to work with the other terminals - it takes usually a year or more before features from xterm get copied into other programs. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net pgp9O40FX1T1V.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: backup terminal title
On Sun, Feb 07, 2010 at 09:49:54AM +0100, Dominic Fandrey wrote: I finally got it: printf \033[22;0t This stores the current icon and window titles on a stack. printf \033[23;0t This restores them from the stack. It works fine with xterm, has no effect on rxvt-unicode (which I am using), though. I wouldn't expect it to work with the other terminals - it takes usually a year or more before features from xterm get copied into other programs. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net pgpxj4XVJjr07.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: backup terminal title
El día Saturday, February 06, 2010 a las 01:38:11PM +0100, Dominic Fandrey escribió: I just started to wonder how portmaster changes the window title of my terminal and why it doesn't change it back when it terminates. Some digging in the portmaster code showed up an escape sequence: printf \033]0;%s\007 YOUR TEXT GOES HERE Unfortunately I am entirely clueless as to how one could backup the old title string to restore it upon termination. It seems to me this ought to be a precondition to using this kind of feature. Play around with xwininfo(1), like: $ xwininfo -tree -root | fgrep xterm which prints the titles for all your XTerm windows. HIH matthias -- Matthias Apitz t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e g...@unixarea.de - w http://www.unixarea.de/ Vote NO to EU The Lisbon Treaty: http://www.no-means-no.eu ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 01:38:11PM +0100, Dominic Fandrey wrote: I just started to wonder how portmaster changes the window title of my terminal and why it doesn't change it back when it terminates. Some digging in the portmaster code showed up an escape sequence: printf \033]0;%s\007 YOUR TEXT GOES HERE Unfortunately I am entirely clueless as to how one could backup the old title string to restore it upon termination. It seems to me this ought to be a precondition to using this kind of feature. It can, depending - some people object to the control sequence which can retrieve the previous value. I added a push/pop stack for xterm last year which can work around that (transparently). I used that in vile (vi like emacs), and I made a fix for 'screen' which uses it. see http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.log.html#xterm_251 For other terminals - some have disabled the objectionable feature, some have not. (Some will eventually copy the push/pop feature ;-) -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net pgpdNZr7YsZSr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: backup terminal title
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 01:55:55PM +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote: El día Saturday, February 06, 2010 a las 01:38:11PM +0100, Dominic Fandrey escribió: I just started to wonder how portmaster changes the window title of my terminal and why it doesn't change it back when it terminates. Some digging in the portmaster code showed up an escape sequence: printf \033]0;%s\007 YOUR TEXT GOES HERE Unfortunately I am entirely clueless as to how one could backup the old title string to restore it upon termination. It seems to me this ought to be a precondition to using this kind of feature. Play around with xwininfo(1), like: $ xwininfo -tree -root | fgrep xterm which prints the titles for all your XTerm windows. iirc, vim does something like this, but it has the potential for being very slow (ymmv). -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net pgprUhQe4zlss.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: backup terminal title
Matthias Apitz wrote: El día Saturday, February 06, 2010 a las 01:38:11PM +0100, Dominic Fandrey escribió: I just started to wonder how portmaster changes the window title of my terminal and why it doesn't change it back when it terminates. Some digging in the portmaster code showed up an escape sequence: printf \033]0;%s\007 YOUR TEXT GOES HERE Unfortunately I am entirely clueless as to how one could backup the old title string to restore it upon termination. It seems to me this ought to be a precondition to using this kind of feature. Play around with xwininfo(1), like: $ xwininfo -tree -root | fgrep xterm which prints the titles for all your XTerm windows. Nice, but I need something that works with base system components. Like an escape sequence that causes the terminal to reset its title. Regards -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
On 06/02/2010 13:55, Dominic Fandrey wrote:
Nice, but I need something that works with base system
components. Like an escape sequence that causes the terminal
to reset its title.
Something like this for tcsh:
set prompt = '%{\033]0;%...@%m:%/\007%}%B%m%b:%c03:%# '
Sets the window title to 'u...@hostname:/current/directory'. Porting
this escape sequence to other shells left as an exercise for the student.
Cheers,
Matthew
--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard, Flat 3
Black Earth Consulting Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW
Free and Open Source Solutions Tel: +44 (0)1843 580647
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Re: backup terminal title
Matthew Seaman wrote:
On 06/02/2010 13:55, Dominic Fandrey wrote:
Nice, but I need something that works with base system
components. Like an escape sequence that causes the terminal
to reset its title.
Something like this for tcsh:
set prompt = '%{\033]0;%...@%m:%/\007%}%B%m%b:%c03:%# '
Sets the window title to 'u...@hostname:/current/directory'. Porting
this escape sequence to other shells left as an exercise for the student.
Already experimented with that, but it makes tcsh believe the prompt
is longer than it really is. So it will blow up when you move your
cursor around in long commands.
Also this doesn't really relate to the question, does it?
--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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Re: backup terminal title
Dominic Fandrey wrote:
Matthew Seaman wrote:
On 06/02/2010 13:55, Dominic Fandrey wrote:
Nice, but I need something that works with base system
components. Like an escape sequence that causes the terminal
to reset its title.
Something like this for tcsh:
set prompt = '%{\033]0;%...@%m:%/\007%}%B%m%b:%c03:%# '
Sets the window title to 'u...@hostname:/current/directory'. Porting
this escape sequence to other shells left as an exercise for the student.
Also this doesn't really relate to the question, does it?
I realize my wording should be clearer.
I wish to use the \033]0;%s\007 sequence in a shell-script to set
the title of a terminal. But only if I am able to undo it.
My requirement is that this must be done without using anything
outside the base system.
--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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Re: backup terminal title
I wish to use the \033]0;%s\007 sequence in a shell-script to set the title of a terminal. But only if I am able to undo it. My requirement is that this must be done without using anything outside the base system. There is an escape sequence which will cause the terminal to echo back its current title, but it's a bit tricky to use given only base-system tools because the echo ends with, IIRC, \007 rather than \n. It may be possible in some shells to temporarily set the line-end character to \007. You probably also want to (somehow) cover problematic cases like terminals that don't reply to the inquiry even though TERMCAP implies that they should. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
On Sat, 6 Feb 2010, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I wish to use the \033]0;%s\007 sequence in a shell-script to set the title of a terminal. But only if I am able to undo it. My requirement is that this must be done without using anything outside the base system. There is an escape sequence which will cause the terminal to echo back its current title, but it's a bit tricky to use given only base-system tools because the echo ends with, IIRC, \007 rather than \n. It may be possible in some shells to temporarily set the line-end character to \007. You probably also want to (somehow) cover problematic cases like terminals that don't reply to the inquiry even though TERMCAP implies that they should. % printf \033]0;Title Here\007 What's the sequence for reading the terminal title? -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: What's the sequence for reading the terminal title? If I remembered it I'd have included it :) The first 3 results from Googling xterm escape sequences are rtfm.etla.org/xterm/ctlseq.html www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Xterm-Title.html www.kitebird.com/csh-tcsh-book/ctlseqs.pdf I'd expect it to be in at least one of them. (#4 may be a miss, but the next 5 also look promising.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
On Sat, 6 Feb 2010, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: What's the sequence for reading the terminal title? If I remembered it I'd have included it :) I did some unsuccessful searching for query xterm title earlier today. The first 3 results from Googling xterm escape sequences are rtfm.etla.org/xterm/ctlseq.html That one has it: printf \033];badexample\007 This sets the title in both xterm and Terminal. printf \033[21;t\n That brings back the title in Terminal, with a leading l... and in the keyboard buffer. Doesn't work in xterm, possibly because xterm is pickier about the exact sequence. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup terminal title
per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I wish to use the \033]0;%s\007 sequence in a shell-script to set the title of a terminal. But only if I am able to undo it. My requirement is that this must be done without using anything outside the base system. There is an escape sequence which will cause the terminal to echo back its current title, but it's a bit tricky to use given only base-system tools because the echo ends with, IIRC, \007 rather than \n. It may be possible in some shells to temporarily set the line-end character to \007. You probably also want to (somehow) cover problematic cases like terminals that don't reply to the inquiry even though TERMCAP implies that they should. That actually doesn't sound tricky at all, remember that the original sequence to change the title also ends with \007. Where can I find this magical sequence? I've been trying to read: http://www.xfree86.org/current/ctlseqs.html But the Syntax is really cryptic. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
On 4 February 2010 18:14, Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) svein-listm...@stillbilde.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04.02.2010 17:57, Matthew Seaman wrote: On 04/02/2010 15:35, Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) wrote: On a monthly rotation the tapes are placed in a firetolerant safe. Since the most critical thing here is the terabyte (and growing!) of original photographs, I'm not thinking about just day-to-day diskfailure or pebcaks (proper raid and snapshotting handles that rather well). However snapshotting and raid solutions handles the house being on fire rather poorly, or should we say Data integrity and fires, get along like a house on fire? ;) fire tolerant? That doesn't sound amazingly effective to me. Would it stand up to temperatures in excess of 600degC for more than about 20 minutes? That's going to be fairly typical in a house fire... Well, this one is the kind placed within the concrete of our cellar (this is a home solution, not an industry one). But that area isn't suitable for the servers for other reasons. The cellar is within the bedrock of the area (the house foundation is directly on bedrock, and the cellar area has been blasted out from the bedrock), so discounting the plane-crash-into-building scenario, it's rather safe for our use (and the plane-crash scenario would quite likely invalidate me along with the backup, and so the need for a restore wouldn't be that critical) A safe like that is a good idea for local storage of backup media while it waits to go into the tape library or off-site. It's a bad idea for storing your entire archive. *snip* Tape libraries are horribly expensive since they're not mass market items. They are also intrinsically prone to breaking down or failing to work quite as well as the salesman implied. They're the only viable solution when your storage volumes get really huge, but what is considered huge nowadays is rather more than terabyte scale. If you can get away with just a single tape drive you'll save yourself a lot of money. Alas, a full backup of the current disk setup takes 4 tapes and ... I really don't feel like staying up one entire night per week to swap tapes (both for the backup and the verify). The autoloader I've got now (8 slot, 1 drive, LTO-3, SAS) works fairly well with the currently installed OS (Windows Storage Server 2008), giving about 60MB/Sec sustained transfer rate. LTO4 tapes are rated at 800--1600GB depending on achievable compression, so they might be big enough on their own. As image formats are already internally compressed, I'd expect them to come in at the low end of that, which might be tight. Worth trying out if you can get a drive on evaluation. A standalone LTO-4 might be a good alternative, if I didn't already have the tapeloader. ;) You might want to evaluate getting a bunch of 1TB (or larger) hard dives -- either USB or hot-swap SATA. They don't need to perform particularly well, but they'd have to be rated for a lot of spin-up/spin-down cycles (so something aimed at the mobile PC market). One other thing you should seriously consider is on-line backup. There are quite a lot of providers out there, and they should be at least competitive with running your own dedicated backup system. They also generally have the advantage of being instantly available if you need to recover anything in a hurry. Online-backup-solutions are a no-go for me, alas. Someone told me that Amanda should handle this, and I'm looking into it now (especially reading up on what I'd need to do to handle disaster recovery), but other options are welcome as well, including the option of going Solaris (if someone can point me to proper documentation on how to get Solaris to do what I want). Also checkout Bacula. I've found Bacula quite a lot easier to manage than Amanda, especially with tape libraries. The box itself is a C2D E7500 with 8GB ram, Asus P5Q Premium (the deluxe version with fewer NICs is on the BigAdmin HCL, basically an intel P45 chipset with sufficient number of pci-express slots, and four Marvell Yukon gigabit nics with Marvell Alaska PHY), backed by LSI SAS-MPT for the autoloader and SAS-MFI for the disks, and will handle SMB/CIFS, NFS, and iSCSI services (and the backups of that data). Nothing fancy here, meaning it should hardwarewise be no biggie to get it up and running in FreeBSD, Solaris (or leave it on Windows Storage server if that's the best solution, even if that means the iSCSI-target-service has ... less than stellar performance). So, I'm basically looking for pointers on what solutions to consider, not looking for a pre-cooked solution. I have sufficient external diskspace (still with redundancy) to handle the move-to-new-os-and-fs issue... Thanks again for taking the time to help me out here. ;) Hard to know what
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
On 3 February 2010 19:21, Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) svein-listm...@stillbilde.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03.02.2010 19:14, LoH wrote: If my memory serves, you're looking at something similar to taking a snapshot and then sending it to the tape device, so zfs send snapshot | (tape device access). This, IIRC, is functionally identical to dump/restore. Except for one smallish detail. Dump handles tape is full, switch to next one in a relatively painless way... Let's just say that ... there's a reason I've invested in an autoloader for my home server (it will, among other things, hold about a terabyte of Nikon .NEF files if that means anything) //Svein - -- - +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE - +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. - Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktpzMgACgkQODUnwSLUlKRRfgCgulZAvQN61uE6HIcuvxzkU2yS HaAAmwcHY6YYqoTYlw/R/KeWuy/9ferH =zHrR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org If you combine snapshoting with a redundant array, and maybe a secondary pool that you zfs send your files ystems to (perhaps on a different box) its questionable whether having stuff on tape has any advantage. If you are taking the tapes off site it may be worth it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04.02.2010 10:39, krad wrote: If you combine snapshoting with a redundant array, and maybe a secondary pool that you zfs send your files ystems to (perhaps on a different box) its questionable whether having stuff on tape has any advantage. If you are taking the tapes off site it may be worth it. On a monthly rotation the tapes are placed in a firetolerant safe. Since the most critical thing here is the terabyte (and growing!) of original photographs, I'm not thinking about just day-to-day diskfailure or pebcaks (proper raid and snapshotting handles that rather well). However snapshotting and raid solutions handles the house being on fire rather poorly, or should we say Data integrity and fires, get along like a house on fire? ;) And I think ... everyone on this list can agree that data not properly backed up, is a fancy way of saying data not yet lost. ;) This is why I'm willing to (and have already) cough up for such solutions as autoloaders for my home storage server, however my last wrestle with ZFS (on freebsd RELENG_7) left me rather less than enthusiastic about the backup options. Someone told me that Amanda should handle this, and I'm looking into it now (especially reading up on what I'd need to do to handle disaster recovery), but other options are welcome as well, including the option of going Solaris (if someone can point me to proper documentation on how to get Solaris to do what I want). The box itself is a C2D E7500 with 8GB ram, Asus P5Q Premium (the deluxe version with fewer NICs is on the BigAdmin HCL, basically an intel P45 chipset with sufficient number of pci-express slots, and four Marvell Yukon gigabit nics with Marvell Alaska PHY), backed by LSI SAS-MPT for the autoloader and SAS-MFI for the disks, and will handle SMB/CIFS, NFS, and iSCSI services (and the backups of that data). Nothing fancy here, meaning it should hardwarewise be no biggie to get it up and running in FreeBSD, Solaris (or leave it on Windows Storage server if that's the best solution, even if that means the iSCSI-target-service has ... less than stellar performance). So, I'm basically looking for pointers on what solutions to consider, not looking for a pre-cooked solution. I have sufficient external diskspace (still with redundancy) to handle the move-to-new-os-and-fs issue... Thanks again for taking the time to help me out here. ;) //Svein - -- - +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE - +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. - Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktq6TwACgkQODUnwSLUlKQYzgCffVUn25D1CTJsg9SfVBCJNwvO xKkAn17MEHNQUdFTf7b19U3rTd/ASduU =2bla -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/02/2010 15:35, Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) wrote: On a monthly rotation the tapes are placed in a firetolerant safe. Since the most critical thing here is the terabyte (and growing!) of original photographs, I'm not thinking about just day-to-day diskfailure or pebcaks (proper raid and snapshotting handles that rather well). However snapshotting and raid solutions handles the house being on fire rather poorly, or should we say Data integrity and fires, get along like a house on fire? ;) fire tolerant? That doesn't sound amazingly effective to me. Would it stand up to temperatures in excess of 600degC for more than about 20 minutes? That's going to be fairly typical in a house fire... A safe like that is a good idea for local storage of backup media while it waits to go into the tape library or off-site. It's a bad idea for storing your entire archive. You really want your backups to be stored in an off-site location. Preferably by a company that has the right sort of secure archive facilities. 'Off-site' means 'sufficiently far away that any conceivable disaster can't affect them.' The gold standard for 'conceivable disasters' is a fully laden and fuelled plane crashing onto your premises. I did once have a setup where 'off site' was a storage company only a couple of streets over, but as their archive was in a former World War II Bunker some 100 feet underground, that was acceptable. Usually you'ld be looking at several miles away at minimum. And I think ... everyone on this list can agree that data not properly backed up, is a fancy way of saying data not yet lost. ;) This is why I'm willing to (and have already) cough up for such solutions as autoloaders for my home storage server, however my last wrestle with ZFS (on freebsd RELENG_7) left me rather less than enthusiastic about the backup options. Tape libraries are horribly expensive since they're not mass market items. They are also intrinsically prone to breaking down or failing to work quite as well as the salesman implied. They're the only viable solution when your storage volumes get really huge, but what is considered huge nowadays is rather more than terabyte scale. If you can get away with just a single tape drive you'll save yourself a lot of money. LTO4 tapes are rated at 800--1600GB depending on achievable compression, so they might be big enough on their own. As image formats are already internally compressed, I'd expect them to come in at the low end of that, which might be tight. Worth trying out if you can get a drive on evaluation. You might want to evaluate getting a bunch of 1TB (or larger) hard dives - -- either USB or hot-swap SATA. They don't need to perform particularly well, but they'd have to be rated for a lot of spin-up/spin-down cycles (so something aimed at the mobile PC market). One other thing you should seriously consider is on-line backup. There are quite a lot of providers out there, and they should be at least competitive with running your own dedicated backup system. They also generally have the advantage of being instantly available if you need to recover anything in a hurry. Someone told me that Amanda should handle this, and I'm looking into it now (especially reading up on what I'd need to do to handle disaster recovery), but other options are welcome as well, including the option of going Solaris (if someone can point me to proper documentation on how to get Solaris to do what I want). Also checkout Bacula. I've found Bacula quite a lot easier to manage than Amanda, especially with tape libraries. The box itself is a C2D E7500 with 8GB ram, Asus P5Q Premium (the deluxe version with fewer NICs is on the BigAdmin HCL, basically an intel P45 chipset with sufficient number of pci-express slots, and four Marvell Yukon gigabit nics with Marvell Alaska PHY), backed by LSI SAS-MPT for the autoloader and SAS-MFI for the disks, and will handle SMB/CIFS, NFS, and iSCSI services (and the backups of that data). Nothing fancy here, meaning it should hardwarewise be no biggie to get it up and running in FreeBSD, Solaris (or leave it on Windows Storage server if that's the best solution, even if that means the iSCSI-target-service has ... less than stellar performance). So, I'm basically looking for pointers on what solutions to consider, not looking for a pre-cooked solution. I have sufficient external diskspace (still with redundancy) to handle the move-to-new-os-and-fs issue... Thanks again for taking the time to help me out here. ;) Hard to know what to advise OS-wise. FreeBSD will do the job, although I'm not sure the iSCSI-target stuff is the best available. So will Solaris for that matter, although more likely to suffer from hardware incompatibilites. I really haven't got a clue about how well Windows would perform although I personally would avoid it simply because it was Windows...
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04.02.2010 17:57, Matthew Seaman wrote: On 04/02/2010 15:35, Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) wrote: On a monthly rotation the tapes are placed in a firetolerant safe. Since the most critical thing here is the terabyte (and growing!) of original photographs, I'm not thinking about just day-to-day diskfailure or pebcaks (proper raid and snapshotting handles that rather well). However snapshotting and raid solutions handles the house being on fire rather poorly, or should we say Data integrity and fires, get along like a house on fire? ;) fire tolerant? That doesn't sound amazingly effective to me. Would it stand up to temperatures in excess of 600degC for more than about 20 minutes? That's going to be fairly typical in a house fire... Well, this one is the kind placed within the concrete of our cellar (this is a home solution, not an industry one). But that area isn't suitable for the servers for other reasons. The cellar is within the bedrock of the area (the house foundation is directly on bedrock, and the cellar area has been blasted out from the bedrock), so discounting the plane-crash-into-building scenario, it's rather safe for our use (and the plane-crash scenario would quite likely invalidate me along with the backup, and so the need for a restore wouldn't be that critical) A safe like that is a good idea for local storage of backup media while it waits to go into the tape library or off-site. It's a bad idea for storing your entire archive. *snip* Tape libraries are horribly expensive since they're not mass market items. They are also intrinsically prone to breaking down or failing to work quite as well as the salesman implied. They're the only viable solution when your storage volumes get really huge, but what is considered huge nowadays is rather more than terabyte scale. If you can get away with just a single tape drive you'll save yourself a lot of money. Alas, a full backup of the current disk setup takes 4 tapes and ... I really don't feel like staying up one entire night per week to swap tapes (both for the backup and the verify). The autoloader I've got now (8 slot, 1 drive, LTO-3, SAS) works fairly well with the currently installed OS (Windows Storage Server 2008), giving about 60MB/Sec sustained transfer rate. LTO4 tapes are rated at 800--1600GB depending on achievable compression, so they might be big enough on their own. As image formats are already internally compressed, I'd expect them to come in at the low end of that, which might be tight. Worth trying out if you can get a drive on evaluation. A standalone LTO-4 might be a good alternative, if I didn't already have the tapeloader. ;) You might want to evaluate getting a bunch of 1TB (or larger) hard dives -- either USB or hot-swap SATA. They don't need to perform particularly well, but they'd have to be rated for a lot of spin-up/spin-down cycles (so something aimed at the mobile PC market). One other thing you should seriously consider is on-line backup. There are quite a lot of providers out there, and they should be at least competitive with running your own dedicated backup system. They also generally have the advantage of being instantly available if you need to recover anything in a hurry. Online-backup-solutions are a no-go for me, alas. Someone told me that Amanda should handle this, and I'm looking into it now (especially reading up on what I'd need to do to handle disaster recovery), but other options are welcome as well, including the option of going Solaris (if someone can point me to proper documentation on how to get Solaris to do what I want). Also checkout Bacula. I've found Bacula quite a lot easier to manage than Amanda, especially with tape libraries. The box itself is a C2D E7500 with 8GB ram, Asus P5Q Premium (the deluxe version with fewer NICs is on the BigAdmin HCL, basically an intel P45 chipset with sufficient number of pci-express slots, and four Marvell Yukon gigabit nics with Marvell Alaska PHY), backed by LSI SAS-MPT for the autoloader and SAS-MFI for the disks, and will handle SMB/CIFS, NFS, and iSCSI services (and the backups of that data). Nothing fancy here, meaning it should hardwarewise be no biggie to get it up and running in FreeBSD, Solaris (or leave it on Windows Storage server if that's the best solution, even if that means the iSCSI-target-service has ... less than stellar performance). So, I'm basically looking for pointers on what solutions to consider, not looking for a pre-cooked solution. I have sufficient external diskspace (still with redundancy) to handle the move-to-new-os-and-fs issue... Thanks again for taking the time to help me out here. ;) Hard to know what to advise OS-wise. FreeBSD will do the job, although I'm not sure the iSCSI-target stuff is the best available. So will Solaris for that matter, although more likely to
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
- Original Message From: Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) svein-listm...@stillbilde.net To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 12:14:18 PM Subject: Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS On 04.02.2010 17:57, Matthew Seaman wrote: On 04/02/2010 15:35, Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) wrote: Alas, a full backup of the current disk setup takes 4 tapes and ... I really don't feel like staying up one entire night per week to swap tapes (both for the backup and the verify). The autoloader I've got now (8 slot, 1 drive, LTO-3, SAS) works fairly well with the currently installed OS (Windows Storage Server 2008), giving about 60MB/Sec sustained transfer rate. LTO4 tapes are rated at 800--1600GB depending on achievable compression, so they might be big enough on their own. As image formats are already internally compressed, I'd expect them to come in at the low end of that, which might be tight. Worth trying out if you can get a drive on evaluation. A standalone LTO-4 might be a good alternative, if I didn't already have the tapeloader. ;) Some (certainly not all) autoloaders can be upgraded/converted from LTO-3 to LTO-4 for about the same price as a standalone LTO-4. We use a windows based server for backups at work (nothing but a maintenance nightmare, let me tell you), and at home I have only a single-drive tape backup on my FreeBSD box (never a hiccup!) so I haven't been able to test the following, but would dump be able to understand the EOT and just be able to ask for a new one in the autoloader, which should be able to be set up to automatically move a new tape into the drive until it ran out? For what it's worth, I found Amanda unnecessarily complicated for my simple needs at home. I tried Bacula as well and it seemed easier, but not enough to make it worth it. I just dump the stuff I need to back up externally straight to tape on a weekly cron job. They still fit on one tape. :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 11:05:06AM +0100, Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'm currently considering switching my Backend (Running WSS2008 Enterprise) to FreeBSD RELENG_8+zfs, however my last melee with ZFS and backups to Autoloader (HP 1/8 G2 LTO-3 job) didn't quite turn out in my favour. Seems FreeBSD has a decent backup solution for UFS/2 (dump/restore) but such luxuries where nowhere to be found for ZFS (but the performance was quite good!). I haven't used ZFS yet, but if stuff is put there in 'file' with an inode for each, I wonder if dump/restore would actually work on ZFS. Of course, it would not preserve the formatting/filesystem building. But it doesn't do that fur UFS either. Backups created by dump and read by restore are just files with a series of files as they come from disk organized and located by inode. But, as I say, I haven't worked with ZFS yet so do not know how date is kept track of on ZFS. jerry So, my question is this: Can someone point me to the proper place to start reading on getting RELENG_8+zfs backed up to tape robotics (or more specifically: LTO-3 with a HP autoloader)? Will going the Opensolaris route be easier? (I had hoped to be able to use net/istgt/ from ports, but I guess I could find a different solution to that problem in Solaris). Any pointers would really help me here. The storage backend will be on MFI arrays (set up with redundant striping + automagic weekly consistency checks of the arrays). //Svein - -- - +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE - +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. - Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktpSlIACgkQODUnwSLUlKRvRQCcCKgCzTSCr9PVfyQ9cveGkuUd xTIAn2IWherBzlLTu/02CBLJMo34Ky2m =ruSv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
I have been using Amanda straight from the port, it supports both tar from snapshots if you need to be able to retrieve individual files from the backup and zfs send if recovery at filesystem level is OK. --glz --On Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:05 AM +0100 Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) svein-listm...@stillbilde.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'm currently considering switching my Backend (Running WSS2008 Enterprise) to FreeBSD RELENG_8+zfs, however my last melee with ZFS and backups to Autoloader (HP 1/8 G2 LTO-3 job) didn't quite turn out in my favour. Seems FreeBSD has a decent backup solution for UFS/2 (dump/restore) but such luxuries where nowhere to be found for ZFS (but the performance was quite good!). So, my question is this: Can someone point me to the proper place to start reading on getting RELENG_8+zfs backed up to tape robotics (or more specifically: LTO-3 with a HP autoloader)? Will going the Opensolaris route be easier? (I had hoped to be able to use net/istgt/ from ports, but I guess I could find a different solution to that problem in Solaris). Any pointers would really help me here. The storage backend will be on MFI arrays (set up with redundant striping + automagic weekly consistency checks of the arrays). //Svein - -- - +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE - +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. - Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktpSlIACgkQODUnwSLUlKRvRQCcCKgCzTSCr9PVfyQ9cveGkuUd xTIAn2IWherBzlLTu/02CBLJMo34Ky2m =ruSv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ... the future isMobile Goran Lowkrantz goran.lowkra...@ismobile.com System Architect, isMobile, Aurorum 2, S-977 75 Luleå, Sweden Phone: +46(0)920-75559 Mobile: +46(0)70-587 87 82 Fax: +46(0)70-615 87 82 http://www.ismobile.com ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
If my memory serves, you're looking at something similar to taking a snapshot and then sending it to the tape device, so zfs send snapshot | (tape device access). This, IIRC, is functionally identical to dump/restore. The Solaris ZFS Admin guide is generally helpful (even as we live in the FreeBSD world). (http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-5461/6n7ht6qsc?a=view) On 2/3/2010 4:05 AM, Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'm currently considering switching my Backend (Running WSS2008 Enterprise) to FreeBSD RELENG_8+zfs, however my last melee with ZFS and backups to Autoloader (HP 1/8 G2 LTO-3 job) didn't quite turn out in my favour. Seems FreeBSD has a decent backup solution for UFS/2 (dump/restore) but such luxuries where nowhere to be found for ZFS (but the performance was quite good!). So, my question is this: Can someone point me to the proper place to start reading on getting RELENG_8+zfs backed up to tape robotics (or more specifically: LTO-3 with a HP autoloader)? Will going the Opensolaris route be easier? (I had hoped to be able to use net/istgt/ from ports, but I guess I could find a different solution to that problem in Solaris). Any pointers would really help me here. The storage backend will be on MFI arrays (set up with redundant striping + automagic weekly consistency checks of the arrays). //Svein - -- - +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE - +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. - Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktpSlIACgkQODUnwSLUlKRvRQCcCKgCzTSCr9PVfyQ9cveGkuUd xTIAn2IWherBzlLTu/02CBLJMo34Ky2m =ruSv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03.02.2010 19:14, LoH wrote: If my memory serves, you're looking at something similar to taking a snapshot and then sending it to the tape device, so zfs send snapshot | (tape device access). This, IIRC, is functionally identical to dump/restore. Except for one smallish detail. Dump handles tape is full, switch to next one in a relatively painless way... Let's just say that ... there's a reason I've invested in an autoloader for my home server (it will, among other things, hold about a terabyte of Nikon .NEF files if that means anything) //Svein - -- - +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE - +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. - Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktpzMgACgkQODUnwSLUlKRRfgCgulZAvQN61uE6HIcuvxzkU2yS HaAAmwcHY6YYqoTYlw/R/KeWuy/9ferH =zHrR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03.02.2010 17:41, Goran Lowkrantz wrote: I have been using Amanda straight from the port, it supports both tar from snapshots if you need to be able to retrieve individual files from the backup and zfs send if recovery at filesystem level is OK. Does Amanda handle splitting a backup over several tapes (and using the autoloader under FreeBSD?) //Svein - -- - +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE - +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. - Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktpzQoACgkQODUnwSLUlKT1KwCgqZjUakGildXBWt4WRF/k6x5b NPwAn0uMvmseUwXHCpcxAu9uzdQfMhnJ =hAB3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup and FreeBSD/ZFS
Yes, I have three sets running that way, my home systems using a Dell 122 and a 5 rack config at work with a 7x200G Tandberg and a 48 slot 4U IBM beast. All are using the mtx changer scripts that come with Amanda. -glz --On Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:22 PM +0100 Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) svein-listm...@stillbilde.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03.02.2010 17:41, Goran Lowkrantz wrote: I have been using Amanda straight from the port, it supports both tar from snapshots if you need to be able to retrieve individual files from the backup and zfs send if recovery at filesystem level is OK. Does Amanda handle splitting a backup over several tapes (and using the autoloader under FreeBSD?) //Svein - -- - +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE - +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. - Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktpzQoACgkQODUnwSLUlKT1KwCgqZjUakGildXBWt4WRF/k6x5b NPwAn0uMvmseUwXHCpcxAu9uzdQfMhnJ =hAB3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ... the future isMobile Goran Lowkrantz goran.lowkra...@ismobile.com System Architect, isMobile, Aurorum 2, S-977 75 Luleå, Sweden Phone: +46(0)920-75559 Mobile: +46(0)70-587 87 82 Fax: +46(0)70-615 87 82 http://www.ismobile.com ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup Size
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:24:19PM -0500, Jay Hall wrote: On Aug 10, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Roland Smith wrote: The fact that you are using tar also plays a part. Tar has some overhead to store information about the files it contains. Is it possible to calculate the amount of overhead tar will use? Just execute the tar command, and dump the output to /dev/null through dd: tar -cf - /etc |dd of=/dev/null tar: Removing leading '/' from member names 3160+0 records in 3160+0 records out 1617920 bytes transferred in 0.057690 secs (28045115 bytes/sec) This will give you the exact size without writing anything to disk. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpl10oTLkN2E.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Backup Size
On Aug 11, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Roland Smith wrote: Just execute the tar command, and dump the output to /dev/null through dd: tar -cf - /etc |dd of=/dev/null tar: Removing leading '/' from member names 3160+0 records in 3160+0 records out 1617920 bytes transferred in 0.057690 secs (28045115 bytes/sec) This will give you the exact size without writing anything to disk. Thanks. I had not thought of that. Jay ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup Size
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:21:58AM -0500, Jay Hall wrote:
I am sure there is an easy explanation for this, but I cannot find it.
I am backing up my /etc directory using the following command.
tar -cvf - /etc | dd of=/dev/nsa1 obs=10240
Why are you using dd? Tar was originally built to write to tape:
tar -cvf /dev/nsa1 /etc
When the command completes, I receive the following message.
3080+0 records in
154+0 records out
1576960 bytes transferred in 0.179921 secs (8764740 bytes/sec)
What concerns me is when running du -h /etc, the size of the folder is
reported as 1.7M.
du rounds sizes up to the filesystem block size, which is 512 bytes by
default. So you'll bound to see differences. And see below.
Is the number of bytes written to the tape less than the reported size
of the directory because of the way the files are written to the
tape? If so, how can the amount of space used be calculated?
The fact that you are using tar also plays a part. Tar has some overhead to
store information about the files it contains.
If you want to know the total size of all files:
find /etc -type f -ls | awk \
'BEGIN {t=0; c=0}; END {print t bytes in c files}; {t=t+$7; c++}'
This returns '1320254 bytes in 362 files' in my case, while the tar/dd combo
returns 1617920 bytes. The difference is the overhead for tar.
If you really want to check if tar does the right thing, restore the backup to
a different place (e.g. /tmp/etc) and check with diff:
# rewind your tape to the correct position (not shown)
cd /tmp; tar xvf /dev/nsa1
diff -ru /etc /tmp/etc
The diff command should give no output.
Roland
--
R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
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Re: Backup Size
In the last episode (Aug 10), Jay Hall said: I am sure there is an easy explanation for this, but I cannot find it. I am backing up my /etc directory using the following command. tar -cvf - /etc | dd of=/dev/nsa1 obs=10240 When the command completes, I receive the following message. 3080+0 records in 154+0 records out 1576960 bytes transferred in 0.179921 secs (8764740 bytes/sec) What concerns me is when running du -h /etc, the size of the folder is reported as 1.7M. Is the number of bytes written to the tape less than the reported size of the directory because of the way the files are written to the tape? If so, how can the amount of space used be calculated? du prints the number of disk blocks used by a directory tree. Your filesystem probably was formatted with 16k blocks and 2k fragment size; This means that the minimum space du will report for each file is 2k. Tar uses 512-byte blocks internally, so a directory with a lot of small files in it (/etc for example) will take up less space as a tar file than on disk. Try running du -ha /etc, to see what du reports for each file under /etc. -- Dan Nelson dnel...@allantgroup.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup Size
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 06:25:28PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote:
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:21:58AM -0500, Jay Hall wrote:
I am sure there is an easy explanation for this, but I cannot find it.
I am backing up my /etc directory using the following command.
tar -cvf - /etc | dd of=/dev/nsa1 obs=10240
Why are you using dd? Tar was originally built to write to tape:
tar -cvf /dev/nsa1 /etc
When the command completes, I receive the following message.
3080+0 records in
154+0 records out
1576960 bytes transferred in 0.179921 secs (8764740 bytes/sec)
What concerns me is when running du -h /etc, the size of the folder is
reported as 1.7M.
du rounds sizes up to the filesystem block size, which is 512 bytes by
default. So you'll bound to see differences. And see below.
Oops, scratch that. Brain fart. du -h uses kilo-, mega- etc. bytes according
to du(1).
Is the number of bytes written to the tape less than the reported size
of the directory because of the way the files are written to the
tape? If so, how can the amount of space used be calculated?
The fact that you are using tar also plays a part. Tar has some overhead to
store information about the files it contains.
If you want to know the total size of all files:
find /etc -type f -ls | awk \
'BEGIN {t=0; c=0}; END {print t bytes in c files}; {t=t+$7; c++}'
This returns '1320254 bytes in 362 files' in my case, while the tar/dd combo
returns 1617920 bytes. The difference is the overhead for tar.
If you really want to check if tar does the right thing, restore the backup to
a different place (e.g. /tmp/etc) and check with diff:
# rewind your tape to the correct position (not shown)
cd /tmp; tar xvf /dev/nsa1
diff -ru /etc /tmp/etc
The diff command should give no output.
Roland
--
R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
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Re: Backup Size
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:21:58 -0500, Jay Hall jh...@socket.net wrote: What concerns me is when running du -h /etc, the size of the folder is reported as 1.7M. Excuse me for being pedantic, but please try to use the correct terminology. There are no folders in FreeBSD. The concept you are refering to is called a directory. You don't call the files in /etc sheets of paper, do you? :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup Size
On Aug 10, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Roland Smith wrote: The fact that you are using tar also plays a part. Tar has some overhead to store information about the files it contains. Is it possible to calculate the amount of overhead tar will use? Thanks, Jay ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup Size
On Monday 10 August 2009 18:24:19 Jay Hall wrote: On Aug 10, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Roland Smith wrote: The fact that you are using tar also plays a part. Tar has some overhead to store information about the files it contains. Is it possible to calculate the amount of overhead tar will use? Difficult. 512 bytes per entry + 1024 (EOF). See man 5 tar. But since files will be padded there is some extra overhead. Also, it is hard to calculate hard links and sparse files. Tar will handle these correctly (i.e. preserve hard links and detect sparse files and try not archive blocks of nulls) but it is hard to calculate the size because of this before the archive operation because of this. -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup Size
Difficult. 512 bytes per entry + 1024 (EOF). See man 5 tar. But since files will be padded there is some extra overhead. Also, it is hard to calculate hard links and sparse files. Tar will handle these correctly (i.e. preserve hard links and detect sparse files and try not archive blocks of nulls) but it is hard to calculate the size because of this before the archive operation because of this. -- Mel Thanks. I have been able to come close, but not exact. Looks like close will have to be good enough. Thanks again. Jay ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup files from editor
Hi prad, Le 5 mars 09 à 09:15, prad a écrit : editors can produce backup files - eg emacs adds a ~ to the backup file. the backup file keeps getting changed as you make changes to the original so you i'm wondering what the point of them is. Please refer to the Emacs manual (info m Emacs) to learn about the precise rule governing backup files. Just like you, I do not like to have all of these backup files springing off everywhere in my filesystem. Instead of turning backup off, I tell emacs to put them in the `.emacs.d/backup' I created for this purpose: (setq backup-directory-alist '((.* . ~/.emacs.d/backup))) You can get a finer control on backup location, read documentation for the bariable `backup-directory-alist' to discover how. Note that this setup tends to produce super long file named in `~/.emacs.d/backup' which may break some fragile systems (e.g. I encountered problems when preparing ISO filesystems not supporting these long names). i turn off backups (so my directory doesn't fill up with ~ files), but then i also don't space things properly and occasionally use cryptic names when programming (from what my son tells me), so i figure i should change some of these bad habits. how do people make use of the backup feature when they program? Note that basic functionalities of RCS systems are well integrated in Emacs (see the Tools menu), and I systematically use SVN (in the ports) as a sophisticated backup system when I edit files that count. Note that the FreeBSD wiki features an intereting comparison of the various RCS systems available, so if you are interested with this approach, you can look for this comparison and make your choice. You can also use RCS without the (moderate) hassle to set up a repository, Emacs has support for an `immediate' RCS system, doubling the files you want to keep track of with a `,v' companion file, containing revision history. (IIRC, this RCS system is the ancestor of CVS, but I cannot find again the name, sorry about this.) -- All the best, Michaël ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup msdos slice
So, what I would like is something that would dump the MS slice to a FreeBSD file or media written in the FreeBSD world and that I could then pick out files and directories somewhat like I do using restore on a dump file.I suspect that tar might not keep enough meta information to be right for this job. Is that a valid concern?Recovered files should still work in MS-Win. only tar i think ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup msdos slice
On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 02:10:42PM -0500, Jerry wrote: Hi, I hate to start this potential storm, but... I have a machine with both an MS and FreeBSD slices on it. I can easily back up and recover the FreeBSD slices using dump(8)/restore(8) But, that won't work for the MS slice (which happens to be FAT32 on this machine) because there is no superblock and inode structure. So, what I would like is something that would dump the MS slice to a FreeBSD file or media written in the FreeBSD world and that I could then pick out files and directories somewhat like I do using restore on a dump file. I suspect that tar might not keep enough meta information to be right for this job. Is that a valid concern? Just mount the FAT32 fs, and use any achiver you like, e.g. zip, tar, cpio. All can save all metadata that FAT32 has. If you use zip, you can even use winzip on windows to extract files from it, if that is important to you. Some time ago I wrote a utility called dosrestore (available on my website) that could extract files from backup floppies made with MS-DOS 5 or thereabouts. I haven't tested it beyond my own backup floppies, though. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpDn5ih8UdNG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: backup msdos slice
On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:10:42 -0500, Jerry jerr...@msu.edu wrote: So, what I would like is something that would dump the MS slice to a FreeBSD file or media written in the FreeBSD world and that I could then pick out files and directories somewhat like I do using restore on a dump file. There should be a simple way: Just dd the FAT partition into a file. You can then backup this file in FreeBSD (by any way you want). In order to access files inside the dd image you can simply mount it using the md (memory disk) facility. An example (not verified, I don't have any MICROS~1 around); I'll assume that /dev/ads2c is the FAT file system in question (again, I do admit that I don't know how FAT partitions occur as device files in FreeBSD). % dd if=/dev/ads2c of=fat.dd bs=1m 12345678+1 records in 12345678+1 records out Now you've got fat.dd. You can backup this file or just backup content parts of it. % sudo mdconfig -a -t vnode -u 10 -f fat.dd % mount -t msdosfs -o ro /dev/md10 /mnt You now can access the files in fat.dd from the /mnt subtree. Be sure to check % man mount_msdosfs for additional options you might need (character conversion, large, longnames, mask, ... - I don't exactly know what to use). Now you can partwise plusgood backup files from within /mnt, using your favourite backup method (tar to tape, rsync to remote machine or what you prefer). Basically, I want to back up the MSDOS slice (I know MS calls it a primary partition) from the FreeBSD side of things. I can read and write the slice nicely from FreeBSD, but not dump/restore. Now you can. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup to spare drive (rsync / crontab)
Adding full path for rsync was the solution. All backups done last night on schedule. Thanks to all that offered advice. D ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup to spare drive (rsync / crontab)
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:37:19AM -0800, drc...@yahoo.com wrote: I am using rsync and crontab to perform scheduled backups on FreeBSD AMD64 Rel. 7.0 I am following process described here for rsync : http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/examples.html I have a backup script's created for daily, weekly, monthly. This is one example - the daily (/backup is a seperate physical drive) : #daily backup script rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Access/ /backup/daily/Access rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Templates/ /backup/daily/Templates rsync -a --delete /usr/home/QBdata/ /backup/daily/QBdata rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception1/ /backup/daily/reception1 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception2/ /backup/daily/reception2 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception3/ /backup/daily/reception3 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Files/ /backup/daily/Files If this is the complete script, you've forgotten to start the file with the shell invocation: #!/bin/sh All files created where chmod'd with +x, then I test the scripts by running them manually and all three, daily, weekly monthly work fine. Scripts started from the shell prompt will run without the #! line (they will be interpreted by a subshell). Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpeNdZsImI8J.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Backup to spare drive (rsync / crontab)
drc...@yahoo.com wrote: I am using rsync and crontab to perform scheduled backups on FreeBSD AMD64 Rel. 7.0 I am following process described here for rsync : http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/examples.html I have a backup script's created for daily, weekly, monthly. This is one example - the daily (/backup is a seperate physical drive) : #daily backup script rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Access/ /backup/daily/Access rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Templates/ /backup/daily/Templates rsync -a --delete /usr/home/QBdata/ /backup/daily/QBdata rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception1/ /backup/daily/reception1 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception2/ /backup/daily/reception2 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception3/ /backup/daily/reception3 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Files/ /backup/daily/Files All files created where chmod'd with +x, then I test the scripts by running them manually and all three, daily, weekly monthly work fine. FInal step, I add to root crontab, by using : crontab -e I added following lines : 1 23 30 * * /usr/local/sbin/backup/monthly 1 21 * * 0 /usr/local/sbin/backup/weekly 1 23 * * 1-5 /usr/local/sbin/backup/daily crontab -l shows all is OK as well. But the scheduled backups never happen. I must be doing something wrong, but can't figure out what. rsync isn't in the path of cron. You should either provide the complete path in the script, of add /usr/local/bin to your crontab. Peter -- http://www.boosten.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup to spare drive (rsync / crontab)
Peter Boosten wrote: path in the script, of add /usr/local/bin to your crontab. ^^ or Sometimes the Dutch language emerges :-) -- http://www.boosten.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup to spare drive (rsync / crontab)
drc...@yahoo.com wrote: I am using rsync and crontab to perform scheduled backups on FreeBSD AMD64 Rel. 7.0 I am following process described here for rsync : http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/examples.html I have a backup script's created for daily, weekly, monthly. This is one example - the daily (/backup is a seperate physical drive) : #daily backup script rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Access/ /backup/daily/Access rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Templates/ /backup/daily/Templates rsync -a --delete /usr/home/QBdata/ /backup/daily/QBdata rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception1/ /backup/daily/reception1 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception2/ /backup/daily/reception2 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception3/ /backup/daily/reception3 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Files/ /backup/daily/Files Try putting the full path to rsync in your script: # whereis rsync Steve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup to spare drive (rsync / crontab)
On Friday 30 January 2009 10:28:48 Peter Boosten wrote: drc...@yahoo.com wrote: #daily backup script rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Access/ /backup/daily/Access rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Templates/ /backup/daily/Templates rsync -a --delete /usr/home/QBdata/ /backup/daily/QBdata rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception1/ /backup/daily/reception1 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception2/ /backup/daily/reception2 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/reception3/ /backup/daily/reception3 rsync -a --delete /usr/home/data/Files/ /backup/daily/Files But the scheduled backups never happen. I must be doing something wrong, but can't figure out what. rsync isn't in the path of cron. You should either provide the complete path in the script, of add /usr/local/bin to your crontab. And while you're at it, configure your sendmail/aliases properly so you get CRON's diagnostics. Meaning, change this line in /etc/aliases and run newaliases command: # root: m...@my.domain You may wanna skip through /var/mail/root to see if there's anything else you missed ;) -- Mel Problem with today's modular software: they start with the modules and never get to the software part. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup to spare drive (rsync / crontab)
On Fri, January 30, 2009 11:37 am, drc...@yahoo.com wrote: I am using rsync and crontab to perform scheduled backups on FreeBSD AMD64 Rel. 7.0 I am following process described here for rsync : http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/examples.html You should check out the rsnapshot port. it does what you are looking for and more. It will save you a lot of scripting, etc and it works great. I have been using it as part of my backup procedure for a while now and it works well. Eric ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup to spare drive (rsync / crontab)
On Jan 30, 2009, at 22:28, Eric Zimmerman e...@mikestammer.com wrote: On Fri, January 30, 2009 11:37 am, drc...@yahoo.com wrote: I am using rsync and crontab to perform scheduled backups on FreeBSD AMD64 Rel. 7.0 I am following process described here for rsync : http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/examples.html You should check out the rsnapshot port. it does what you are looking for and more. It will save you a lot of scripting, etc and it works great. I have been using it as part of my backup procedure for a while now and it works well. Eric Lot's of solutions: I use dirvish, also from the ports. Peter -- http://www.boosten.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup program on FreeBSD for DLT drive
Hi The bakbone company sells a software called NETVAULT if I remember well it works under FreeBSD bsd wrote: Yes, This is probably the one I'll go for… There is a good hack described in the O'Reilly BSD hacks to setup Bacula… I'll consider this article as a starting point… Thank you very much folks. Le 23 janv. 09 à 04:21, Geoff Fritz a écrit : On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 08:30:56PM +0100, bsd wrote: Hello, I am using a FreeBSD server 7.0 as a Samba server and wanted to backup this server using Quantum DLT tape. I would need a simple tool that could be configured rapidl at that's stable enough to provide high security for the data. Ideally any good pointer to a howto would be a must! I've had success with Bacula for a small office file server (FreeBSD) and Windows clients clients. It supports SSL for the data transfer (if the client and server are not the same machine), as well as data encryption: http://www.bacula.org/en/dev-manual/Data_Encryption.html I haven't used the encryption myself. Bacula has a bit of a learning curve to set up corretly, but I really enjoy its use once it it set up correctly. -- Geoff Gregober --- PGP ID -- 0x1BA3C2FD bsd @at@ todoo.biz P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Cordialement Frank Bonnet ESIEE Paris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup program on FreeBSD for DLT drive
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:30 PM, bsd b...@todoo.biz wrote:
Hello,
I am using a FreeBSD server 7.0 as a Samba server and wanted to backup this
server using Quantum DLT tape.
less /scripts/backup2tape.sh
#!/bin/sh
TARGET=/dev/nsa0
# FILESYSTEMS=/:/var:/usr
FILESYSTEMS=/
DUMPLEVEL=0
DUMPOPTIONS=auL
MTACTION=rewind
MT=/usr/bin/mt
SED=/usr/bin/sed
DUMP=/sbin/dump
#Rewind the tape
echo ${MT} ${MTACTION}
${MT} ${MTACTION}
#Do the dump for each file system
for i in `echo $FILESYSTEMS | ${SED} 's/:/ /g'`
do
echo ${DUMP} ${DUMPLEVEL}${DUMPOPTIONS}f ${TARGET} $i
${DUMP} ${DUMPLEVEL}${DUMPOPTIONS}f ${TARGET} $i
done
#Rewind the tape
echo ${MT} ${MTACTION}
${MT} ${MTACTION}
(END)
PS: Customize it by changing the TARGET and the FILESYSTEMS
As regards security, store it safely in a bank safe:-)
I use it with cron, but I can re-install the server in minutes.
--
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
The only time a woman really succeeds in changing a man is when he is a
baby.
- Natalie Wood
___
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Re: Backup program on FreeBSD for DLT drive
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 08:06:43AM +0100, bsd wrote: Yes, This is probably the one I'll go for? There is a good hack described in the O'Reilly BSD hacks to setup Bacula? I don't understand. Why hack when dump already works just right? jerry I'll consider this article as a starting point? Thank you very much folks. Le 23 janv. 09 à 04:21, Geoff Fritz a écrit : On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 08:30:56PM +0100, bsd wrote: Hello, I am using a FreeBSD server 7.0 as a Samba server and wanted to backup this server using Quantum DLT tape. I would need a simple tool that could be configured rapidl at that's stable enough to provide high security for the data. Ideally any good pointer to a howto would be a must! I've had success with Bacula for a small office file server (FreeBSD) and Windows clients clients. It supports SSL for the data transfer (if the client and server are not the same machine), as well as data encryption: http://www.bacula.org/en/dev-manual/Data_Encryption.html I haven't used the encryption myself. Bacula has a bit of a learning curve to set up corretly, but I really enjoy its use once it it set up correctly. -- Geoff Gregober --- PGP ID -- 0x1BA3C2FD bsd @at@ todoo.biz P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup program on FreeBSD for DLT drive
Well I have installed It but I find It quite confusing to configure… so I have just stopped; The problem is that I don't have a lot of time to really get into it… Did you use any good pointer or just take time to learn It the standard way… ?? I found It quite hard to configure to tell the truth! Le 22 janv. 09 à 20:51, Stephen Corbesero a écrit : I used to use Amanda on a small FreeBSD RAID server that used a single DLT drive. It held up pretty well. Gregober --- PGP ID -- 0x1BA3C2FD bsd @at@ todoo.biz P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup program on FreeBSD for DLT drive
On Jan 22, 2009, at 11:30 AM, bsd wrote: I am using a FreeBSD server 7.0 as a Samba server and wanted to backup this server using Quantum DLT tape. I would need a simple tool that could be configured rapidl at that's stable enough to provide high security for the data. Ideally any good pointer to a howto would be a must! See the fine Handbook: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/backup-basics.html http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/backups-tapebackups.html Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup program on FreeBSD for DLT drive
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 08:30:56PM +0100, bsd wrote: I am using a FreeBSD server 7.0 as a Samba server and wanted to backup this server using Quantum DLT tape. I would need a simple tool that could be configured rapidl at that's stable enough to provide high security for the data. Ideally any good pointer to a howto would be a must! Read §16.12 (Backup Basics) in the FreeBSD Handbook. You'll find the English version in /usr/share/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/backup-basics.html. For full backups dump(8) and mt(1) seem to be the tools of choice. If you use dump and you want encryption, you could pipe the dump output through openssl to encrypt it with e.g. the AES algorithm with a 256 bit key. Run 'openssl enc -help' to see the encryption algorithms available. All the tools mentioned above are available in the base system, which is a prequisite for restoring system partitions in my book. My own backup strategy is to write dumps or /, /usr and /var to an external USB harddisk or DVD, for an easy restore. For large data partitions I prefer to rsync(1) to a geli(8) encrypted partition on an external harddisk, because it is faster and more convenient than a dump. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgphXHUJDfXXS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Backup program on FreeBSD for DLT drive
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 08:30:56PM +0100, bsd wrote: Hello, I am using a FreeBSD server 7.0 as a Samba server and wanted to backup this server using Quantum DLT tape. I would need a simple tool that could be configured rapidl at that's stable enough to provide high security for the data. Ideally any good pointer to a howto would be a must! I've had success with Bacula for a small office file server (FreeBSD) and Windows clients clients. It supports SSL for the data transfer (if the client and server are not the same machine), as well as data encryption: http://www.bacula.org/en/dev-manual/Data_Encryption.html I haven't used the encryption myself. Bacula has a bit of a learning curve to set up corretly, but I really enjoy its use once it it set up correctly. -- Geoff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup program on FreeBSD for DLT drive
Yes, This is probably the one I'll go for… There is a good hack described in the O'Reilly BSD hacks to setup Bacula… I'll consider this article as a starting point… Thank you very much folks. Le 23 janv. 09 à 04:21, Geoff Fritz a écrit : On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 08:30:56PM +0100, bsd wrote: Hello, I am using a FreeBSD server 7.0 as a Samba server and wanted to backup this server using Quantum DLT tape. I would need a simple tool that could be configured rapidl at that's stable enough to provide high security for the data. Ideally any good pointer to a howto would be a must! I've had success with Bacula for a small office file server (FreeBSD) and Windows clients clients. It supports SSL for the data transfer (if the client and server are not the same machine), as well as data encryption: http://www.bacula.org/en/dev-manual/Data_Encryption.html I haven't used the encryption myself. Bacula has a bit of a learning curve to set up corretly, but I really enjoy its use once it it set up correctly. -- Geoff Gregober --- PGP ID -- 0x1BA3C2FD bsd @at@ todoo.biz P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Backup complete gmirror/gstripe/gjournal drives, how-to?
Doug Poland wrote: Hello, I've got a 7.1-PRERELEASE i386 box with 4 SATA drives configured in a RAID-10 using gmirror, gstripe, and gjournal. Normally, I use dump and rsync for periodic backups on this machine, but I suspect that the gmirror/gstripe/gjournal information is not being backed up. If my assumption is correct, how can I perform a one-time backup such that I could do a bare-metal restore? The essence of the question being I want to preserve not only the data, but also the gmirror/gstripe/gjournal meta-data as well. The only thought that comes to mind is to boot with a 7.1 live filesystem CD-ROM and dd each drive, piping the results to my backup machine. e.g., host# dd if=/dev/ad4 bs=2m | gzip | nc backuphost 12345 host# dd if=/dev/ad6 bs=2m | gzip | nc backuphost 12346 host# dd if=/dev/ad10 bs=2m | gzip | nc backuphost 12347 host# dd if=/dev/ad12 bs=2m | gzip | nc backuphost 12348 Any thoughts, suggestions, caveats? I hope you understand the problems with this kind of backup procedures. Assuming that ad4,6,10,12 are the drives from which you created your RAID-10, everything is backed up, including GEOM metadata. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Backup complete gmirror/gstripe/gjournal drives, how-to?
periodic backups on this machine, but I suspect that the gmirror/gstripe/gjournal information is not being backed up. If my assumption is correct, how can I perform a one-time backup such that I could do a bare-metal restore? The essence of the question being I want to assuming you do gmirror first and then gstripe of gmirror then use dd to read last sectors of each disk drive and each gmirror device. and backup disklabels ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
