Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Sat, Jun 24, 2006 at 10:03:42PM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: I'm currently weighing options ... my last two servers were HP Proliant, and I *really* like them, but I might have a line on a supplier in Panama that deals in Dell Servers and not HP ... Looking at Dell's web site, the PowerEdge has an optional Remote Access Controller that will it *sounds* like will give me similar functionality as HPs iLO ... But, I've heard bad things about their 'desktop offerings', and am not sure if that follows through to their Servers ... So, I'm kinda looking for both good, and bad, experiences with the PowerEdge stuff ... anyone with opinions? Thx ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 No small thing you need to consider when choosing Dell is that they DO NOT support FreeBSD. They support Windows and Red Hat Linux. If the machine is not lights-out and the OS is not one of the above, they will not send parts or a technician. I found this out the hard way and had to load Linux on a spare drive just to prove a piece of hardware was failing. They wasted a lot of my time. The cheaper cost of their hardware was easily outweighed by the wasted hours of my time. -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
Mike Galvez wrote: [ ... ] No small thing you need to consider when choosing Dell is that they DO NOT support FreeBSD. They support Windows and Red Hat Linux. If the machine is not lights-out and the OS is not one of the above, they will not send parts or a technician. I found this out the hard way and had to load Linux on a spare drive just to prove a piece of hardware was failing. I've heard that Dells tech support isn't as helpful as it used to be, but I've had them replace a CD-ROM drive and a 4mm DAT tape backup on Dell machines dedicated to FreeBSD without any problems. Try running the diagnostic CD or floppy that came with the machine? (Or can be downloaded for the specific system type from the Dell website.) -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
Chuck Swiger wrote: I've heard that Dells tech support isn't as helpful as it used to be, but I've had them replace a CD-ROM drive and a 4mm DAT tape backup on Dell machines dedicated to FreeBSD without any problems. Try running the diagnostic CD or floppy that came with the machine? (Or can be downloaded for the specific system type from the Dell website.) Second that. They're not as good as in the past, but we have had hardware assistance on a FreeBSD-driven server on the condition of proving hardware fault using Dell's own bootable diagnostics. Also, it seems like YMMV definitely applies to Dell, generally. We find that their higher end desktops (mainly Optiplex), higher end laptops and PowerEdge servers to be pretty solid and well-supported. However, our support experience may be artificially enhanced compared to others because we buy off a large govt. contract. We do not talk to the same support group that most other posters have grumbled about. That said, our overall experience with Dell support has actually been as good or better than with many other vendors. From time to time we're confronted with a 1st tier non-help desk operator (scripted responses, incapable of deviating from script or otherwise actually helping), but we find that it's not too difficult to escalate around those individuals and actually get help. -- Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator South Central Library System (SCLS) Library Interchange Network (LINK) gregb at scls.lib.wi.us, (608) 266-6348 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
I'm currently weighing options ... my last two servers were HP Proliant, and I *really* like them, but I might have a line on a supplier in Panama that deals in Dell Servers and not HP ... Looking at Dell's web site, the PowerEdge has an optional Remote Access Controller that will it *sounds* like will give me similar functionality as HPs iLO ... But, I've heard bad things about their 'desktop offerings', and am not sure if that follows through to their Servers ... So, I'm kinda looking for both good, and bad, experiences with the PowerEdge stuff ... anyone with opinions? Thx ... Hi Marc, My experience with Dell hardware and support goes back to the year 2000. As a systems administrator, I can only speak for their server products, not their desktop products. The short story is: Stay away from Dell. Their hardware is of low quality and poor construction. Their enterprise support is by far THE lowest quality I've ever had to deal with. Light years away from Sun, IBM or HP support. The long story is that the machine's parts are of poor manufacturing. They bend, break and snap if you're not very carefull in handling them. The documentation that comes with the machines is far from complete. I've done a test by installing an IBM x346 sitting next to a Dell PowerEdge 2850 and a Sun Fire X4200. You can clearly see that the IBM and the Sun are of superior quality. All the parts are clearly labeled, there is extensive maintenance documentation on the casing and the parts are sturdy and solid. Compared to the Dell which has flimsy bits of plastic hanging loose, internal cabling has to pass over heat-sinks and fans and there is close to zero documentation on the casing. Also, to remove the casing on the IBM and Sun machines, you have well built latches which makes the whole thing snap into place without any screws. While the Dell machine has an awkward metal casing with sharp edges and requires three screws. All in all, working with a Dell machine is a nightmare compared to working with IBM or Sun hardware. That's on the low end machines. Dell does not offer high end machines such as the Sun Fire E25K Server or the IBM eServer p5 595. Granted that not everyone needs such big machines, but almost any corporation will need more then 4 CPU machines one day, an area in which Dell is not present. Therefore, you're forced to change hardware when you need to scale up. That's for the hardware. Now, let's talk support. In several years, I've had to place numerous support calls to IBM, Sun, HP, Veritas, Hitachi, EMC and Brocade. In all of them, the call was handled by a single phone call, my problem was quickly found and either a person, a part or a patch was sent or advised to fix it. At Dell, I often had to make two, three and even four different calls to talk to someone. One time, that someone didn't even know we had a support contract. Worse, the phone number on the support contract was invalid! More often then not, the Dell techs are not properly trained on the hardware and have close to zero knowledge of actual systems maintenance. Of course, our IT staff was not happy with the quality of support from Dell (or lack of..) So we had Dell's Head of Canadian Support in to discuss this. His suggestion was that we pay more for the platinum support. It's pathetic, really. In the end you get what you pay for. Dell is cheaper of course. But when you add up the downtime caused by broken parts, the time you lose answering is the server powered-on dump support questions and the poor reliability you get out of Dell machines, the ROI is not as nice as it looked compared to Sun, IBM or HP. Finally, the HP iLO you appreciate is also present in the IBM and Sun machines with a lot more features then Dell's. Of course, YMMV. But IMHO, if you're planning on doing serious work in an enterprise, stay clear of Dell and go for Sun, IBM or HP. David -- David Robillard UNIX systems administrator Oracle DBA CISSP, RHCE, Sun Certified Security Systems Administrator Montreal: +1 514 966 0122 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 11:24:54AM -0400, Jerry McAllister wrote: Mike Galvez wrote: [ ... ] No small thing you need to consider when choosing Dell is that they DO NOT support FreeBSD. They support Windows and Red Hat Linux. If the machine is not lights-out and the OS is not one of the above, they will not send parts or a technician. I found this out the hard way and had to load Linux on a spare drive just to prove a piece of hardware was failing. I've heard that Dells tech support isn't as helpful as it used to be, but I've had them replace a CD-ROM drive and a 4mm DAT tape backup on Dell machines dedicated to FreeBSD without any problems. Try running the diagnostic CD or floppy that came with the machine? (Or can be downloaded for the specific system type from the Dell website.) Dell support grumbles a bit, but they have replaced tapes, disks, SCSI controllers and even mother boards on our machines running FreeBSD. My problem was with my backup server being FreeBSD and running AMANDA. The Powervault autoloader was generating SCSI errors. After I setup AMANDA on Linux and got the same errors, they were willing to replace the Powervault autoloader. With the new autoloader in place, I replaced the Linux OS with the same instance of FreeBSD I was using before. No more SCSI errors. All of this took more time than it should have. jerry -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On 6/26/06, Mike Galvez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My problem was with my backup server being FreeBSD and running AMANDA. The Powervault autoloader was generating SCSI errors. After I setup AMANDA on Linux and got the same errors, they were willing to replace the Powervault autoloader. With the new autoloader in place, I replaced the Linux OS with the same instance of FreeBSD I was using before. No more SCSI errors. All of this took more time than it should have. I can't start to tell you the time I and another collegue wasted with Dell Support (we're talking Gold Queue here) on a Powervault PV660T. Logs here, logs there, exercise this, reflash that... I think the damn thing must have been replaced part by part about 2 times, excluding the chassi! And having to reboot a bunch of (Windows) clusters because of the PV was the icing on the cake! This coating was perfomed many times At a certain point in time we upgraded the PV from 4 to 6 loaders. It took Dell 3 wrong scsi cables to finally send the right one. -- Joao Barros ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
Greg Barniskis wrote: Chuck Swiger wrote: Second that. They're not as good as in the past, but we have had hardware assistance on a FreeBSD-driven server on the condition of proving hardware fault using Dell's own bootable diagnostics. Also, it seems like YMMV definitely applies to Dell, generally. We find that their higher end desktops (mainly Optiplex), higher end laptops and PowerEdge servers to be pretty solid and well-supported. However, our support experience may be artificially enhanced compared to others because we buy off a large govt. contract. We do not talk to the same support group that most other posters have grumbled about. That said, our overall experience with Dell support has actually been as good or better than with many other vendors. From time to time we're confronted with a 1st tier non-help desk operator (scripted responses, incapable of deviating from script or otherwise actually helping), but we find that it's not too difficult to escalate around those individuals and actually get help. I've been more than a little surprised to hear the uniformly negative reports on Dell hardware and support. Since they've been from people who have loads more experience than I have, I tend to respect them. However, I have to agree wtih Greg, our experience has been uniformly positive. Personally I only admin a handful of boxes, but they're mostly Dells with a couple of Sun's running AMD64 processors. I haven't noticed any appreciable difference in the layout or labeling, but perhaps my eye isn't as keen as some who've handled hundreds and hundreds of machines. One thing I do know is Dell's first tier support for servers is worthless, but as Greg says, you just need to establish that you know what you're doing, and you can bypass them. However, if you're running a big shop, maybe Dell should be avoided. We only have a little over a hundred or so, mostly running Windows. (We run Sun Sparcs on the *nix* side of the house, except for me. I run exclusively FreeBSD.) -- Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Adjunct Information Security Officer The University of Texas at Dallas http://www.utdallas.edu/ir/security/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
RE: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck Swiger Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 7:57 AM To: Mike Galvez Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ? Mike Galvez wrote: [ ... ] No small thing you need to consider when choosing Dell is that they DO NOT support FreeBSD. They support Windows and Red Hat Linux. If the machine is not lights-out and the OS is not one of the above, they will not send parts or a technician. I found this out the hard way and had to load Linux on a spare drive just to prove a piece of hardware was failing. I've heard that Dells tech support isn't as helpful as it used to be, but I've had them replace a CD-ROM drive and a 4mm DAT tape backup on Dell machines dedicated to FreeBSD without any problems. Try running the diagnostic CD or floppy that came with the machine? (Or can be downloaded for the specific system type from the Dell website.) -- -Chuck I suggest a small slice with Red Hat or Fedora on any Dell Server that runs FreeBSD. As Chuck suggests, downloading the diagnostics for your machine in advance is good advice. I've found Dell's Linux support team is helpful, but they have some policies like run the diagnostics before doing anything else which you usually won't be able to avoid. They may want to walk you through a Linux boot or some other steps under Linux. Once they verify the problem, they are very good at sending replacement hardware. -gayn Bristol Systems Inc. 714/532-6776 www.bristolsystems.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 10:31:06AM -0700, Gayn Winters wrote: I suggest a small slice with Red Hat or Fedora on any Dell Server that runs FreeBSD. As Chuck suggests, downloading the diagnostics for your machine in advance is good advice. I've found Dell's Linux support team is helpful, but they have some policies like run the diagnostics before doing anything else which you usually won't be able to avoid. They may want to walk you through a Linux boot or some other steps under Linux. Once they verify the problem, they are very good at sending replacement hardware. As I wrote earlier my PE 400SC came with a special miniature Linux partition with all the diagnostics. Maybe 32MB, IIRC. Was purchased w/o OS so there was no other software installed. I didn't loose any sleep in not installing the diagnostics on new drives when the 40GB place holder was replaced. There were fan sites for the 400SC with instructions on how to reinstall the diagnostic partition. -- David Kelly N4HHE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
Mike Galvez wrote: No small thing you need to consider when choosing Dell is that they DO NOT support FreeBSD. They support Windows and Red Hat Linux. If the machine is not lights-out and the OS is not one of the above, they will not send parts or a technician. I found this out the hard way and had to load Linux on a spare drive just to prove a piece of hardware was failing. They wasted a lot of my time. The cheaper cost of their hardware was easily outweighed by the wasted hours of my time. Disclaimer: fingers crossed we have yet to have a hardware problem or need Dell's support. Also, my experience of their technical support as a private purchaser of a laptop, was absolutely lousy. My only consolation was that their being so atrocious cost them more money than they could possibly have made on the laptop. I have been told that they are better for business class customers but have no proof. The 2850 servers we purchased came with Dell diagnostics on slice 1 - running Windows 95 I think! It would seem especially prudent when running a non-supported OS in any production environment to keep those diagnostics intact. BSD will happily install on slices 2-4 and auto boot from whichever you last booted from, so the diags can stay invisible until you need them. --Alex ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
Mike Galvez wrote: [ ... ] No small thing you need to consider when choosing Dell is that they DO NOT support FreeBSD. They support Windows and Red Hat Linux. If the machine is not lights-out and the OS is not one of the above, they will not send parts or a technician. I found this out the hard way and had to load Linux on a spare drive just to prove a piece of hardware was failing. I've heard that Dells tech support isn't as helpful as it used to be, but I've had them replace a CD-ROM drive and a 4mm DAT tape backup on Dell machines dedicated to FreeBSD without any problems. Try running the diagnostic CD or floppy that came with the machine? (Or can be downloaded for the specific system type from the Dell website.) Dell support grumbles a bit, but they have replaced tapes, disks, SCSI controllers and even mother boards on our machines running FreeBSD. jerry -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On 6/25/06, Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm currently weighing options ... my last two servers were HP Proliant, and I *really* like them, but I might have a line on a supplier in Panama that deals in Dell Servers and not HP ... Looking at Dell's web site, the PowerEdge has an optional Remote Access Controller that will it *sounds* like will give me similar functionality as HPs iLO ... But, I've heard bad things about their 'desktop offerings', and am not sure if that follows through to their Servers ... So, I'm kinda looking for both good, and bad, experiences with the PowerEdge stuff ... anyone with opinions? I recently quit from a 4 year job on an ISP with around 300 Dell machines (almost all server models), some older Compaq (Proliant 3000) and recently, about 1 year, some IBM. During this time I found out this: - Compaq Proliant 3000: Failed Power supplys occasionaly. Failed SmartArrays after a reboot. When we called in with something failed, not many questions were asked, they send the part with no problems. - IBM Dual Xeons, Quad Xeons, Xeon and Opteron Blades, and Power5: 3 racks full of machines and had 1 server dead at arrival, 1 FC card dead after some months and nothing else failed! Support was miserable but it wasn't from IBM. - Dell: we had almost all models and all had problems. Power supplys, memory, motherboards, fans. Disks, well guess that's not Dell's fault. I remember the 6450 model, a quad Xeon that had a plastic door. If you close the door with some speed, nothing ridiculous, the server would shutdown. They were usually clustered, neat hein? Dell support even at the highest level is a pain. You hear something like: Customer: we have a problem with a blade server. Support: Please disconnect the power from the machine and connect again. Customer: But that will powerdown ALL the blades! Eventually the contract was raised from Silver and Gold to Platinum on all machines so that we could skip the normal support lines... I had a small stop on a bank last month and they work exclusively with HP, around 3500 servers. Major problems were with disks and some powersupplys and I think dead drives are to be expected. Onboard iLOs rock!!! Coming from Dell Hell I was pretty impressed with HP's machines. If I ever am in a position to choose, I'd go with either HP or IBM, although HP seems to have a stronger Opteron offer. -- Joao Barros ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
I'm currently weighing options ... my last two servers were HP Proliant, and I *really* like them, but I might have a line on a supplier in Panama that deals in Dell Servers and not HP ... Looking at Dell's web site, the PowerEdge has an optional Remote Access Controller that will it *sounds* like will give me similar functionality as HPs iLO ... But, I've heard bad things about their 'desktop offerings', and am not sure if that follows through to their Servers ... So, I'm kinda looking for both good, and bad, experiences with the PowerEdge stuff ... anyone with opinions? Thx ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Sat, Jun 24, 2006 at 10:03:42PM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: I'm currently weighing options ... my last two servers were HP Proliant, and I *really* like them, but I might have a line on a supplier in Panama that deals in Dell Servers and not HP ... Looking at Dell's web site, the PowerEdge has an optional Remote Access Controller that will it *sounds* like will give me similar functionality as HPs iLO ... Am not familiar with either, but are you sure this is hardware and not Windows specific software? My parents are 500 miles away, recently had a Microsoft problem out of warranty and were put off by Dell's request for $100 to resolve the problem. The local Professional Windows Weanie was given a chance but failed. With lots of doubt Dell could solve it remotely they took a chance. Was asked a few questions and asked to enable something, and shortly the Dell tech was inside their machine remotely. Problem was initially diagnosed and cured. Microsoft Autoupdate updated something that broke something else in Word. Next week the problem was back. Warranty service on the first call once again fixed the problem and properly disabled Windows from updating what ever it was again. They were very pleased that it only cost $100 and that it actually got things working as they were. They have lots of experience at paying locals $50 to $100 to make Windows work after it breaks. Often the pro does no good. They haven't had the same problems with the 800 MHz G4 iMac I gave them new for Christmas several years ago once they got DSL and quit using its built-in modem. But, I've heard bad things about their 'desktop offerings', and am not sure if that follows through to their Servers ... Listen closely enough and you'll hear bad about anything, if you want to hear bad. Dell offers product in every price class. They offer Walmart-grade of PCs. They offer high end stuff. Dell doesn't quite make it up to Apple or Sun standards. So, I'm kinda looking for both good, and bad, experiences with the PowerEdge stuff ... anyone with opinions? In my experience the Optiplex and PowerEdge lines are Dell's Good Stuff. This FreeBSD machine is a Dell PowerEdge 400SC with one of the first HT Pentium 4's at 2.8 GHz. Was $400 delivered. Or very little more than CPU + MB from other sources at the time. I got case, CD, floppy, mouse, keyboard, 40G HD, 128MB SDRAM, build in sound and gigabit ethernet, and 8MB PCI video card thrown in. Runs FreeBSD as if it was made to. Interesting in that Dell's diagnostic CD appears to be Linux. -- David Kelly N4HHE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Sat, 24 Jun 2006, David Kelly wrote: On Sat, Jun 24, 2006 at 10:03:42PM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: I'm currently weighing options ... my last two servers were HP Proliant, and I *really* like them, but I might have a line on a supplier in Panama that deals in Dell Servers and not HP ... Looking at Dell's web site, the PowerEdge has an optional Remote Access Controller that will it *sounds* like will give me similar functionality as HPs iLO ... Am not familiar with either, but are you sure this is hardware and not Windows specific software? I'm not 100% certain, after reading the following 'article' about it from 2002, but my feel is that the only requirement is that I run Windows IE to access the interface ... I know with iLO, there is nothing OS related that I have to install to make use of it, but I'm not certain with DRAC ... http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/power/en/ps2q02_bell?c=uscs=19l=ens=dhs Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
I'm currently weighing options ... my last two servers were HP Proliant, and I *really* like them, but I might have a line on a supplier in Panama that deals in Dell Servers and not HP ... Looking at Dell's web site, the PowerEdge has an optional Remote Access Controller that will it *sounds* like will give me similar functionality as HPs iLO ... But, I've heard bad things about their 'desktop offerings', and am not sure if that follows through to their Servers ... So, I'm kinda looking for both good, and bad, experiences with the PowerEdge stuff ... anyone with opinions? We had about 70 sites with Dell Poweredge servers and they ran FreeBSD just fine. They were used for general purpose network servers and didn't do any desktop stuff. They did name service, web, email, listservice, radius dialup authentication, web proxy, etc. The number of users on each varied by site from a handful to a few thousand. The only trouble was with the DAT tape drives. Most of our sites had problems with the DATs. Dell service had to replace lots of them, some more than once. But a couple of sites spent the extra money to buy the DLT drives and they worked just fine, with no problem. It seemed to be mostly the DATs couldn't handle the service load we put on them. Recently one site decided to get an HP Proliant 350 just because they had a bunch of HP machines and it has been almost the same to work with as the Dell PowerEdge machines except the NIC driver was different and the HP was bought with the HP LTO Ultrium tape drive which I have come to like a lot - it is fast. SO, functionally, they seem to both be good and about the same. I have never made use of the Dell (or HP for that matter) remote diagnostic stuff. I don't know if that is hardware or requires some installed software. We completely wipe and rebuild the disks so anything Dell might put there is gone. ps. I have had no particular problem with any Dell desktops either, but haven't been completely happy with the HP desktops I have encountered. But, there haven't been many of them. jerry Thx ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:03:42 -0300 (ADT) Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm currently weighing options ... my last two servers were HP Proliant, and I *really* like them, but I might have a line on a supplier in Panama that deals in Dell Servers and not HP ... Looking at Dell's web site, the PowerEdge has an optional Remote Access Controller that will it *sounds* like will give me similar functionality as HPs iLO ... From my experience (this is going back a little way now) with Dell PowerEdge 2650s with a Dell ERA II controller, the controller was nowhere near as good as the iLO on a HP ProLiant DL360 G3. The Dell cards were only able to transmit text to a remote controller, which given that at the time I was working with Windows Server 2003 was a real pain! The controllers also came to us with identical MAC addresses (across thousands of machines), which was a blast... All this having been said, however, the newer Dell controllers are undoubtably leaps and bounds above the ERA II. But, I've heard bad things about their 'desktop offerings', and am not sure if that follows through to their Servers ... Funny, I've always heard (relatively) good things about their desktops / laptops :-) So, I'm kinda looking for both good, and bad, experiences with the PowerEdge stuff ... anyone with opinions? I found I had really terrible support from Dell. This may just be a Dell Australia issue, or perhaps the technicians allocated to my employer weren't all that capable, or some such. I found countless problems with (for instance) the OpenManage software with things like not showing missing HDDs under certain circumstances (I seem to recall my main concern at the time was that a missing hot-spare for a RAID 5 array would go totally unnoticed / unreported in OpenManage despite being indicated on the machine's front information display). Having to scrub RAID volumes created with the Adaptec onboard RAID controller (a PERC 5/Di (Dell's designation), from memory) was a pain, too, and very lengthy (it would take around 20 hours for a 4 x 80 decimal GB disk RAID 5 set). My experience with HP servers suggests that this process isn't required for the cards they use, but I'll happily confess to being really ignorant of this whole process. I tend to think of Dell as a low-end provider that will cobble together systems based on whatever bits happen to be lying around (don't think that one PE 2650 is the same as the next!), which in turn are invariably the cheapest bits available for a particular job. I've made this sound bad - somewhat intentionally - but there's certainly a market for cheap over quality. I would be far less averse to chucking in Dell kit at home - particularly if it cost significantly less than other options - than I would be to chucking it in a big, geographically diverse organisation with much more expensive uptime requirements. Hope this had been useful, sorry to go on for so long! Thx ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 -- Nick Withers email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.nickwithers.com Mobile: +61 414 397 446 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006, Nick Withers wrote: I tend to think of Dell as a low-end provider that will cobble together systems based on whatever bits happen to be lying around (don't think that one PE 2650 is the same as the next!), which in turn are invariably the cheapest bits available for a particular job. 'k, this is exactly the thing that I'd heard about the Desktops ... and was curious about concerning their server offering ... you mention further up in your response that this was 'a little while back' ... how long ago, and can anyone here comment on whether or not this is still the case with Dell? Pricing things out through the web sites, Dell is definitely the 'cheaper brand', at least in comparison to HP ... so will I end up getting what I paid for with the cheaper Dell, and regretting it, or ... ? :( Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Jun 24, 2006, at 10:21 PM, Nick Withers wrote: I tend to think of Dell as a low-end provider that will cobble together systems based on whatever bits happen to be lying around (don't think that one PE 2650 is the same as the next!), which in turn are invariably the cheapest bits available for a particular job. I've made this sound bad - somewhat intentionally - but there's certainly a market for cheap over quality. Just remember that Dell's business model is lower costs at all costs. They have made it a science of driving costs down, mostly by buying subgrade parts and moving their (at least) consumer tech support to areas of the world that have lower costs , and people you cannot understand very well (I have heard better of their enterprise tech support). I personally would never buy a Dell (both personal friends and acquaintances who have had problems as well as the more than average reports you hear about them) now, though 8 years ago I had a friend who swore by them -- he was an IT Director for a small company. There is a reason that Apple's Market Cap is equal to or greater than Dells with a 1/4 of the revenue... Not a technical answer. Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 01:34:45 -0300 (ADT) Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 25 Jun 2006, Nick Withers wrote: I tend to think of Dell as a low-end provider that will cobble together systems based on whatever bits happen to be lying around (don't think that one PE 2650 is the same as the next!), which in turn are invariably the cheapest bits available for a particular job. 'k, this is exactly the thing that I'd heard about the Desktops ... and was curious about concerning their server offering ... you mention further up in your response that this was 'a little while back' ... how long ago, Around 2004 was when I got my hands the dirtiest with the things. This was towards the end of the Dell PowerEdge 2650 run (I think 2850s are still current...?). and can anyone here comment on whether or not this is still the case with Dell? I think Dell's low-cost at all costs policy is pretty well the foundation for the business... Pricing things out through the web sites, Dell is definitely the 'cheaper brand', at least in comparison to HP ... so will I end up getting what I paid for with the cheaper Dell, and regretting it, or ... ? :( Always a risk, isn't it? To be honest, I'd probably consider the PowerEdge 2650 fine for my use at home, but I wouldn't be using the remote access controller at all and would almost certainly be using FreeBSD, for which there isn't a version of OpenManage, to my knowledge. As for your usage scenario I can't say, but if it's going to be at a colocation facility and you're going to be accessing it through whatever they're calling their ERAs at the moment... I'd think twice. But heck, I haven't checked up on what the price difference might be between a Dell and an equivalent from a competitor, and I'm not at all up-to-date on current Dell offerings. Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 -- Nick Withers email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.nickwithers.com Mobile: +61 414 397 446 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dell poweredge servers
On Mon, Feb 07, 2005 at 05:00:54PM -0700, David Bear wrote: I was looking at the support hardware list for Fbsd 5.x and could find no mention of the PERC3-DI scsi controller.. so I was wondering if anyone has used a dell poweredge 2650, and what your experience was running Freebsd 4.X and 5.x on it. We're running a PE2650 with a PERC 3/Di and it works beautifully. I would highly recommend the system for FreeBSD. -- -- Skylar Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~skylar/ pgpyhq5weI1Nt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: dell poweredge servers
hey Mark, Im using CURRENT on 2650 w/o any problems, aac works fine. There was some problem with ACPI (which lead to hang) on some PE series box'es but now I suppose its okay. Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:14:42 -0800 From: Mark A. Garcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: dell poweredge servers To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed David Bear wrote: I was looking at the support hardware list for Fbsd 5.x and could find no mention of the PERC3-DI scsi controller.. so I was wondering if anyone has used a dell poweredge 2650, and what your experience was running Freebsd 4.X and 5.x on it. I've been running FBSD 4.7 since Apr 2003 on a PE2650 with the PERC3-DI controller. I haven't had any problem setting it up. Just make sure you leave the device aac option in your kernel config. Cheers, -.mag ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dell poweredge servers
I was looking at the support hardware list for Fbsd 5.x and could find no mention of the PERC3-DI scsi controller.. so I was wondering if anyone has used a dell poweredge 2650, and what your experience was running Freebsd 4.X and 5.x on it. -- David Bear phone: 480-965-8257 fax:480-965-9189 College of Public Programs/ASU Wilson Hall 232 Tempe, AZ 85287-0803 Beware the IP portfolio, everyone will be suspect of trespassing ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dell poweredge servers
David Bear wrote: I was looking at the support hardware list for Fbsd 5.x and could find no mention of the PERC3-DI scsi controller.. so I was wondering if anyone has used a dell poweredge 2650, and what your experience was running Freebsd 4.X and 5.x on it. I've been running FBSD 4.7 since Apr 2003 on a PE2650 with the PERC3-DI controller. I haven't had any problem setting it up. Just make sure you leave the device aac option in your kernel config. Cheers, -.mag ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dell poweredge servers
I was looking at the support hardware list for Fbsd 5.x and could find no mention of the PERC3-DI scsi controller.. so I was wondering if anyone has used a dell poweredge 2650, and what your experience was running Freebsd 4.X and 5.x on it. -- David Bear phone:480-965-8257 fax: 480-965-9189 College of Public Programs/ASU Wilson Hall 232 Tempe, AZ 85287-0803 Beware the IP portfolio, everyone will be suspect of trespassing We've been running FreeBSD 5.3 on PE2650 with no issues. -- Viren Patel Chemistry Biochemistry University of Texas at Austin ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dell poweredge servers
I have a PE 2400 running 4.11R with a PERC2-SI. I also had 5.3 running on it with no problem. I didn't have to reconfigure the kernel for either install. --Nick On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:14:42 -0800, Mark A. Garcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Bear wrote: I was looking at the support hardware list for Fbsd 5.x and could find no mention of the PERC3-DI scsi controller.. so I was wondering if anyone has used a dell poweredge 2650, and what your experience was running Freebsd 4.X and 5.x on it. I've been running FBSD 4.7 since Apr 2003 on a PE2650 with the PERC3-DI controller. I haven't had any problem setting it up. Just make sure you leave the device aac option in your kernel config. Cheers, -.mag ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
