Re: VIMAGE (slightly off topic)

[Mark Moellering]

On 5/30/2013 8:29 AM, Joe wrote:

Pietro Paolini wrote:

Hello all,

I am a new bye on the FreeBSD and I am looking at the VIMAGE features 
experiencing some problems.

I added the options :
VIMAGE
if_bridge

and I removed
STCP

then I recompiled my kernel and install it.

After that, following this tutorial 
http://imunes.tel.fer.hr/virtnet/eurobsdcon07_tutorial.pdf I tried 
the Exercise 2 which consist on the following commands:


vimage -c n1
vimage -c n2
ngctl mkpeer efface ether ether
ngctl mkpeer efface ether ether
ngctl mkpeer em0: bridge lower link0
ngctl name em0:lower bridge0
ngctl connect em0: bridge0: upper link1
ngctl connect ngeth0: bridge0: ether link2
ngctl connect ngeth1: bridge0: ether link3
vimage -i n1 ngeth0 e0

But my virtual interface on the n1 vimage does not receive any packet 
from the external network while I can see the packet go out from it.


For instance using DHCP, e0 on n1 sends DHCP packets but it does not 
receive the answers (which are send, I verified it from wireshark), 
in adding
the ARP request for his IP address (if I try to add it statically) 
are not received then it can not answer.


At the end of the line the question is: how can I make this virtual 
network and the external real network be able to communicate ?


Thanks in advance.
Pietro.




1. That link is from 2007. So very much has changed since then.
There are more current links on the internet about this subject. Most 
are for 8.X releases.


2. If your running 8.2-RELEASE or 9.1-RELEASE all you need to add is 
options vimage statement to your kernel source and recompile.


3. There are 2 networking methods available for creating vnet/vimage 
jail networks, if_bridge/epair and netgraph. The if_bridge/epair 
method is far simpler to config and use then the netgraph method.


4. There are 2 methods of jail setup, the rc.d method where your jail 
definition parameters go into the hosts rc.conf and the jail(8) method 
where you can place each jails definition parameter in separate files.


5. There are two very important show stopper PRs on vimage,
164763 memory leak and 149050 the rc.d keyword nojail problem.
Vimage is a very long way from prime time usage, thats why it's 
labeled as highly experimental. Host system freezes and page faults 
are common.


6. When it comes to running a firewall in a vnet/vimage jail your 
limited to IPFW and it has limitations. Dummynet and in kernel NAT 
cause system freezes. IPFILTER causes page fault at boot time. PF will 
run on the host but not run in the vnet/vimage jail. Here are a bunch 
of PRs on vimage firewall problems, 143621, 176092, 161094, 176992, 
143808, 148155, 165252, 178480, 178482



Check out these links

http://druidbsd.sourceforge.net/vimage.shtml
http://devinteske.com/vimage-jails-on-freebsd-8
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-virtualization/2011-September/000747.html 



http://bsdbased.com/2009/12/06/freebsd-8-vimage-epair-howto
http://zewaren.net/site/?q=node/78


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I would like to thank Pietro for asking the question and Joe for 
answering, as I was looking into vimage myself.  This sort of thing 
really helps a lot of people who are exploring FreeBSD and new features.

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off-topic....

[Gary Kline]

guys,

ihad better make this fast; this desktop [dell duo] has been
crashing at random for the past couple month. no clue.  but ive
ordered a refurb with a three-year warranty.   I hope, I hope.

my question is: how to set up an account for code on google-code.
I'v found a 'cheat sheet' site and others that should help me 
with svn.  I have used cvs [late 90's]; I use rcs daily and figure
I'll learn subversion   in time.  but what else do  I have to do 
to get my vbc code over   on google?  their explaination is
written in hieroglyphics.

enough.

gary

ps:  I t is  worth noting that my vbc wworks on freebsd so long
as youve got espeak and the gtk stuff.


-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
  Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: help with SVN needed {slightly off-topic}

[Greg Larkin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 1/20/13 6:55 PM, Gary Kline wrote:
 
 
[...]
 the part I need help with is Subversion.  I used CVS about 15 years
  ago, and svn looks slightly familiar.  the project on google.code 
 are looking for me to use svn to install my base files.  I think; 
 not sure.  on my desktop here I have one development directory for 
 all my source files.  I have subversion installed here.  briefly: 
 what now?
 
 do I create a svn directory here? or do I ftp/scp/?? things to
 the voice-by-computer account to the google.code project? thanks
 for any help.
 
 gary
[...]

Hi Gary,

This will help you get started importing your code into the Google
repository: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/svn.tour.importing.html

After that, you'll find answers to most other questions here:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/index.html

Best regards,
Greg
- -- 
Greg Larkin

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http://www.sourcehosting.net/ - Ready. Set. Code.
http://twitter.com/cpucycle/  - Follow you, follow me
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help with SVN needed {slightly off-topic}

[Gary Kline]

(hm, well, other than to say that im installing 9.1 on my uni-CPU
laptop, this is =really= OT.)

okay, here's what I need help with and some of the whys and
wherefors, etc:  much to my surprise, my little speech application
for the impaired is gaining recognition rapidly.  ive heard from 
people from oz, from somewshere in the philippines, from england--
or maybe I should say u.k., as well as from a few locales here
in the states.  mostly, tho, my focus remains on writing or
finishing this program fro the one computer per child project that
is/was from MIT.  I'm not sure I believe this, but according to 
some source, there are some unholy number of children with some
disability. of the 7 billion there are 100 million children with
some disability.  not all speech, of course, but still---

a gtk+ wizard took my posted VBC code and make mods to it.  he
suggested that I set up an account on sourceforge.net so he and
others could contribute.  I have an acct there but couldn't figure
anything out.  a fellow on fbook suggested google.  I spent most
of saturday setting up a forum and a place for my code on
google.code.  if it sounds like I'm making progress, well, 
that's debatable.  nothing to do with hacking.  just the 
peripheral stuff.  

the part I need help with is Subversion.  I used CVS about 15 years 
ago, and svn looks slightly familiar.  the project on google.code
are looking for me to use svn to install my base files.  I think;
not sure.  on my desktop here I have one development directory for
all my source files.  I have subversion installed here.  briefly:
what now?

do I create a svn directory here? or do I ftp/scp/?? things
to the voice-by-computer account to the google.code project?
thanks for any help.

gary

ps: from the ``ya don' hafta be a hacker to help Dept:'' a speech
therapist wrote with some thoughts on what I should =avoid=
as well as things to include.  things I had never thought of!!


-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
  Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.

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OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Carmel]

I know this doesn't belong here; however I was hoping someone could
give me a quick answer.

I have a document I am writing, actually a new set of By Laws for an
organization. The format should be as shown here:

Article I
  Name

Bla-bla

section 1

section 2

Article II
  Members


And so on. I can accomplish this easily in MS Word; however, I have not
been able to find a way to make Latex use Article as opposed to
Chapter in its heading. I have to use Article I have Googled for
over a day without success. I find it very strange that Latex doesn't
have an \article definition like \section and \chapter. Is there
any way to do this or am I stuck with MS Word. BTW, I did investigate
the titlesec package, but I did not see a way to accomplish it.

Thanks

-- 
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carmel...@hotmail.com

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Re: OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Boris Samorodov]

20.11.2012 00:02, Carmel пишет:

 I know this doesn't belong here; however I was hoping someone could
 give me a quick answer.
 
 I have a document I am writing, actually a new set of By Laws for an
 organization. The format should be as shown here:
 
   Article I
 Name
 
 Bla-bla
 
 section 1
 
 section 2
 
   Article II
 Members

\renewcommand{\chaptername}{Article}
\renewcommand{\thechapter}{\Roman{chapter}}

-- 
WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve
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Re: OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Open Slate]

Latex can do what you describe but you would need to create or locate a
different document class. The standard classes that ship with (most)
versions of Latex are for academic journals, books, and letters. You are
more likely to get your question answered on a Latex specific forum or
mailing list. Finally, in case you have not already tried it, I highly
recommend using Lyx to create Latex documents.

If you are in a rush you can use the \section* command to enter your
article headings and the \subsection* command for your section headings.
The trailing asterisk suppresses automatic numbering, so you will need to
add your own. Much nicer to use automatic numbering.


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Carmel carmel...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I know this doesn't belong here; however I was hoping someone could
 give me a quick answer.

 I have a document I am writing, actually a new set of By Laws for an
 organization. The format should be as shown here:

 Article I
   Name

 Bla-bla

 section 1

 section 2

 Article II
   Members


 And so on. I can accomplish this easily in MS Word; however, I have not
 been able to find a way to make Latex use Article as opposed to
 Chapter in its heading. I have to use Article I have Googled for
 over a day without success. I find it very strange that Latex doesn't
 have an \article definition like \section and \chapter. Is there
 any way to do this or am I stuck with MS Word. BTW, I did investigate
 the titlesec package, but I did not see a way to accomplish it.

 Thanks

 --
 Carmel ✌
 carmel...@hotmail.com

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-- 
Gary Dunn
Open Slate Project
http://openslate.org/
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Re: OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Carmel]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 01:08:47 +0400
Boris Samorodov articulated:

 20.11.2012 00:02, Carmel пишет:
 
  I know this doesn't belong here; however I was hoping someone could
  give me a quick answer.
  
  I have a document I am writing, actually a new set of By Laws for an
  organization. The format should be as shown here:
  
  Article I
Name
  
  Bla-bla
  
  section 1
  
  section 2
  
  Article II
Members
 
 \renewcommand{\chaptername}{Article}
 \renewcommand{\thechapter}{\Roman{chapter}}

Thank you. I tried thechapter and \chapter. It never occurred to me
to use \chaptername. I couldn't find any documentation on it either,
although I was certain that it could be done. I am surprised that there
is not a fixed style for that in  Latex. Article is commonly used in
legal documents.

-- 
Carmel ✌
carmel...@hotmail.com

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Re: OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Aldis Berjoza]

19.11.2012, 23:27, Carmel carmel...@hotmail.com:
 On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 01:08:47 +0400
 Boris Samorodov articulated:

  20.11.2012 00:02, Carmel пишет:
  I know this doesn't belong here; however I was hoping someone could
  give me a quick answer.

  I have a document I am writing, actually a new set of By Laws for an
  organization. The format should be as shown here:

  Article I
    Name

  Bla-bla

  section 1

  section 2

  Article II
    Members
  \renewcommand{\chaptername}{Article}
  \renewcommand{\thechapter}{\Roman{chapter}}

 Thank you. I tried thechapter and \chapter. It never occurred to me
 to use \chaptername. I couldn't find any documentation on it either,
 although I was certain that it could be done. I am surprised that there
 is not a fixed style for that in  Latex. Article is commonly used in
 legal documents.


Well it's written by mathematicians and physicists for mathematicians and 
physicists (mostly)
-- 
Aldis Berjoza
FreeBSD addict
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Re: OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Open Slate]

This sort of worked for me, but still had problems. 1) my Latex starts
chapters on a new page, which may or may not fit the bill. 2) In Lyx the
chapter command wants a title; I could not get just Article I. I'm sure
both of these are fixable, Latex can do virtually anything.


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Boris Samorodov b...@passap.ru wrote:

 20.11.2012 00:02, Carmel пишет:

  I know this doesn't belong here; however I was hoping someone could
  give me a quick answer.
 
  I have a document I am writing, actually a new set of By Laws for an
  organization. The format should be as shown here:
 
Article I
  Name
 
  Bla-bla
 
  section 1
 
  section 2
 
Article II
  Members

 \renewcommand{\chaptername}{Article}
 \renewcommand{\thechapter}{\Roman{chapter}}

 --
 WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
 FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve
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-- 
Gary Dunn
Open Slate Project
http://openslate.org/
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Re: OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Boris Samorodov]

20.11.2012 01:25, Carmel пишет:

 I couldn't find any documentation on it either,
 although I was certain that it could be done.

If you are going to use LaTeX, you definitely should learn it.
There are many good free downlodable books out there.

 I am surprised that there
 is not a fixed style for that in  Latex. Article is commonly used in
 legal documents.

Imho there is no sence since it's a matter of one line of code.

-- 
WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve
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Re: OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Boris Samorodov]

20.11.2012 01:48, Open Slate пишет:

 This sort of worked for me, but still had problems. 1) my Latex starts
 chapters on a new page, which may or may not fit the bill.

1. Don't use the book style to write an article.
2. Read the documentation. It's open, free and plenty.

 2) In Lyx the
 chapter command wants a title; I could not get just Article I. I'm sure
 both of these are fixable, Latex can do virtually anything.

Never used Lyx, so no comments here, sorry.

-- 
WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve
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Re: OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Carmel]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:48:01 -1000
Open Slate articulated:


 On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Boris Samorodov b...@passap.ru
 wrote:
 
  20.11.2012 00:02, Carmel пишет:
 
   I know this doesn't belong here; however I was hoping someone
   could give me a quick answer.
  
   I have a document I am writing, actually a new set of By Laws for
   an organization. The format should be as shown here:
  
 Article I
   Name
  
   Bla-bla
  
   section 1
  
   section 2
  
 Article II
   Members
 
  \renewcommand{\chaptername}{Article}
  \renewcommand{\thechapter}{\Roman{chapter}}
 
 This sort of worked for me, but still had problems. 1) my Latex starts
 chapters on a new page, which may or may not fit the bill. 2) In Lyx
 the chapter command wants a title; I could not get just Article I.
 I'm sure both of these are fixable, Latex can do virtually anything.

Use this to suppress the one chapter per page occurrence.

\usepackage{etoolbox}

\makeatletter

\patchcmd{\chapter}{\if@openright\cleardoublepage\else\clearpage\fi}{}{}{}
\makeatother

-- 
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carmel...@hotmail.com

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Re: OFF TOPIC -- Latex Question

[Polytropon]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:02:51 -0500, Carmel wrote:
 I know this doesn't belong here; however I was hoping someone could
 give me a quick answer.
 
 I have a document I am writing, actually a new set of By Laws for an
 organization. The format should be as shown here:
 
   Article I
 Name
 
 Bla-bla
 
 section 1
 
 section 2
 
   Article II
 Members
 
 
 And so on.

Looks simple.



 I can accomplish this easily in MS Word;

No, you can't.

Means: You _can_ accomplish it in Word, but it won't be
easy, and it won't last. :-)



 however, I have not
 been able to find a way to make Latex use Article as opposed to
 Chapter in its heading. I have to use Article I have Googled for
 over a day without success.

Those have predefined styles which are usually fine fof
common use. In your case, you need a custom definition.
I _may_ be possible that it already exists, but I think
you would be quicker by doing your own.



 I find it very strange that Latex doesn't
 have an \article definition like \section and \chapter.

Because article first is a document class (document style),
and furthermore, it's just another structure name (heading).
The question could be, why is there no \subnumber or
\underparagraph? :-)



 Is there
 any way to do this or am I stuck with MS Word.

Luckily, you're not.



 BTW, I did investigate
 the titlesec package, but I did not see a way to accomplish it.

Sadly I'm not familiar with this package.


BUT.


What you're trying to create is something I've been requested
for typesetting a contract some years ago:

 § 1
Pups und Furz

 § 2
  Schnarch und Dudel

So I think I can help here.


Define this in your preamble (before begin document):


\newcommand{\article}[1]{
\begin{center} {\bf Article \Roman{articlenr}\\#1} \end{center}
\addtocounter{articlenr}{1}}


You can easily put it into one line, I've made three here for
better reading.

Then _in_ your document (after begin document), _prior_ to your
first use of the \article command:


\newcounter{articlenr}
\setcounter{articlenr}{1}


And now you can use it:

\article{Name}

The name is foo.



\article{Members}

The members will be present.


And so on.


In my original document it has been called \para and \paranr
(to be used with the german word Paragraph and the sign §);
check if there is a _naming conflict_

If you don't need the bold font style, remove the {\bf and
the } (after \\#1) in the definition. It's dirty lower-level
hack anyway. :-)

If you need vertical spacing infront of a new paragraph
(additional space to what LaTeX puts there anyway), you
can use \vspace{1.0cm} for example - in the definition.

There is still one downside: It doesn't integrate into the
numbering scheme of \section, \subsection and so on. In my
case, I've been using the enumerate environment within
the articles for sectioning, which was sufficient in case
of that contract.



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: way way off topic

[Polytropon]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 08:39:55 +0700, Erich Dollansky wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 18:13:05 -0700
 Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
 
  On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 05:52:02PM -0700, Gezeala M. Bacuño II wrote:
  if/when I ever find that v short exercise, THIS time, il'l remember to
  'splain stuff in
  
  /*
   * comments
   */
  
 your programs are not self-explanatory?

That's not modern today anymore. :-)


/*
 * this function is void,
 * it takes no args,
 * one of them is not a nickel,
 * adds minus 1 to the result
 * and then branches to register #14
 */
setpicardcolor(); /* 4 lights! */

:-)



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: way way off topic

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:23:17 +0200
Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote:

 On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 08:39:55 +0700, Erich Dollansky wrote:
  Hi,
  
  On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 18:13:05 -0700
  Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
  
   On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 05:52:02PM -0700, Gezeala M. Bacuño II
   wrote: if/when I ever find that v short exercise, THIS time, il'l
   remember to 'splain stuff in
   
 /*
  * comments
  */
   
  your programs are not self-explanatory?
 
 That's not modern today anymore. :-)
 
 
   /*
* this function is void,
* it takes no args,
* one of them is not a nickel,
* adds minus 1 to the result
* and then branches to register #14
*/
   setpicardcolor(); /* 4 lights! */
 
this is so Seventies!

Erich
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Re: way way off topic

[Walter Hurry]

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 15:51:54 -0700, Gary Kline wrote:

   lets say that x == 15 and y == 16.  Q:  how much less is x than 
y? it
   is not just 1; there was some other way of finding the answer.

6.25%


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Re: way way off topic

[Polytropon]

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:31:18 +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote:
 Gary,
 
 On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
 
  apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C program,
  but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet my last cent 
  that I
  had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that either.
 
  here is the problem as best I can remember it.
 
 
  let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.
  how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?
 
 That should be 22/8=2.75
 Jim is 275% older than John

Jim is 175% _older_. Why? Because 100% older means 16 years,
as 100% refers to 8 years (8+8=16, 200% older is 8+8+8=24).
Percentage is always a reference to something else, in this
question, Jim's age in relation to John's. The word older
means adding percentage, refering to the base value of 8,
divided in 100 parts (floating point considerations aside),
to finally reach the value 22.

If the question would be different, say, What's the percentage
of John's age regarding Jim's age? In that case, it would be
8/22=0.3636 being 36%. Obvious: John's age is approximately
1/3 of Jim's age.

The easiest way for creating the proper calculation is to refer
to the equation

   percentage * 100
percentage value = 
 base value

and resolve it to whatever is required.

-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: way way off topic

[perryh]

Olivier Nicole olivier.nic...@cs.ait.ac.th wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
  apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in
  a std C program, but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.
  I would have bet my last cent that I had a summary Somewhere,
  but cant find that either.
 
  here is the problem as best I can remember it.
 
  let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.
  how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?

 That should be 22/8=2.75
 Jim is 275% older than John

No, a subtraction is needed if we wish to use the term older.
Suppose Jim were 9; the above approach would give 9/8 = 1.125
so Jim is 113% older than John, which is clearly wrong (although
one could correctly say in that case that John's age is 113% of
Jim's age).

I think the OP is probably looking for

  ((22 - 8) * 100 + (8/2)) / 8

which will give the answer directly as a correctly-rounded
integral percentage.  (For a fractional percentage, use floats
instead of ints and omit the (8/2) part -- but in that case
you probably also want to express the ages in something other
than whole years.)
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Re: way way off topic

[Gary Kline]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:31:18AM +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote:
 Gary,
 
 On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
 
  apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C program,
  but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet my last cent 
  that I
  had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that either.
 
  here is the problem as best I can remember it.
 
 
  let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.
  how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?
 
 That should be 22/8=2.75
 Jim is 275% older than John
 
 Olivier
 

thanks.  but this wasn't the formula I remember mousing 
down.  I'll keep looking.

gary

ps:  it was involved; something with three or more steps.
things that I had crammed together in one line of C... 


  to find the answer I had to find the relative difference {22 - 8} and then
  do something with the difference.  this isn't any kind of trick or
  advanced-cognition; I just thought it was clever [and exact].  it 
  obviously
  works for finding the abs() results in subtraction.  it's something I found 
  on
  the web and swipes and save the prose discussion.  BZZT: Lost, :-(
 
  if this seems dumb, I plead guilty!
 
  im asking here because -questions is the sharpest list on the net.
 
  --
   Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.
 
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Re: way way off topic

[Gary Kline]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:34:36AM +0700, Erich Dollansky wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 21:20:07 -0700
 Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
 
  
  apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C
  program, but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet
  my last cent that I had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that
  either.
  
  here is the problem as best I can remember it.
  
  
  let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.  
  how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?
  
  to find the answer I had to find the relative difference {22 - 8} and
  then do something with the difference.  this isn't any kind of trick
  or advanced-cognition; I just thought it was clever [and exact].
  it obviously works for finding the abs() results in subtraction.
  it's something I found on the web and swipes and save the prose
  discussion.  BZZT: Lost, :-(
  
 It seems that I am also lost. What should abs() do here?
 
 I would multiply the age of john and the difference with 100 and then
 divide the result to get the percentage.
 
 Or did I get lost here?
 
  if this seems dumb, I plead guilty!
  
  im asking here because -questions is the sharpest list on the net.
  
 
 Are you sure?
 
 Erich

LOL.  yes!  

it's been years since I used the steps to find the accurant amount of
difference.  it may not have involved a %.  I can only think of one
concrete example.

lets say that x == 15 and y == 16.  Q:  how much less is x than y?
it is not just 1; there was some other way of finding the answer.  


-- 
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  Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: way way off topic

[Gary Kline]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 08:52:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
 On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:31:18 +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote:
  Gary,
  
  On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
  
   apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C 
   program,
   but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet my last cent 
   that I
   had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that either.
  
   here is the problem as best I can remember it.
  
  
   let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.
   how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?
  
  That should be 22/8=2.75
  Jim is 275% older than John
 
 Jim is 175% _older_. Why? Because 100% older means 16 years,
 as 100% refers to 8 years (8+8=16, 200% older is 8+8+8=24).
 Percentage is always a reference to something else, in this
 question, Jim's age in relation to John's. The word older
 means adding percentage, refering to the base value of 8,
 divided in 100 parts (floating point considerations aside),
 to finally reach the value 22.
 
 If the question would be different, say, What's the percentage
 of John's age regarding Jim's age? In that case, it would be
 8/22=0.3636 being 36%. Obvious: John's age is approximately
 1/3 of Jim's age.
 
 The easiest way for creating the proper calculation is to refer
 to the equation
 
  percentage * 100
   percentage value = 
base value
 
 and resolve it to whatever is required.
 


I just took a cup's worth of coffee/caffeine to bring me back up! but
it seems to me that your logic is about the same as I remember 
otherwise stated in getting the true differences in ages or speeds
[say or cars. x == 200clicks/hr, y == 400 clicks/hour.] or 
*whatever*.  it isn't as easy as it would seem at first thought.



 -- 
 Polytropon
 Magdeburg, Germany
 Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
  Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: way way off topic

[Gary Kline]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 08:52:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
 On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:31:18 +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote:
  Gary,
  
  On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
  
   apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C 
   program,
   but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet my last cent 
   that I
   had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that either.
  
   here is the problem as best I can remember it.
  
  
   let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.
   how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?
  
  That should be 22/8=2.75
  Jim is 275% older than John
 
 Jim is 175% _older_. Why? Because 100% older means 16 years,
 as 100% refers to 8 years (8+8=16, 200% older is 8+8+8=24).
 Percentage is always a reference to something else, in this
 question, Jim's age in relation to John's. The word older
 means adding percentage, refering to the base value of 8,
 divided in 100 parts (floating point considerations aside),
 to finally reach the value 22.
 
 If the question would be different, say, What's the percentage
 of John's age regarding Jim's age? In that case, it would be
 8/22=0.3636 being 36%. Obvious: John's age is approximately
 1/3 of Jim's age.
 
 The easiest way for creating the proper calculation is to refer
 to the equation
 
  percentage * 100
   percentage value = 
base value
 
 and resolve it to whatever is required.
 
 -- 
 Polytropon
 Magdeburg, Germany
 Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...


yo; I THInk this is it. around line 4542 in my ~/.HowTo file::



%%% find percent inc/dec [increase/decrease] between two numbers.

Always figure the percentage of change relative to the original value!
For instance: * Suppose a certain item used to sell for seventy-five
cents a pound, you see that it's been marked up to eighty-one cents a
pound. What is the percent increase?

First, I have to find the absolute
increase:
Reserved 81 - 75 = 6

The price has gone up six cents. Now I can find the
percentage increase over the original price.

This percentage increase is the relative change: 6/75 = 0.08
...or an 8% increase in price per pound.



So I was wrong about ages or speed; it's the % betwen two ints;
here, the inc/dec [or change] between 75 cents as compared to
an inflated increase of 81 cents.

1.  find abs increase:  81-75 = 6;
2   find the % increase over the *original* value. 6.0/75.0
3.  percent increase using doubles is 0.08;  so a markup of six
cents is an 8% rate.


so: going back to the ages example with john bein 8, jim, 22.
22-8 is 14.
14.0/8.0 = 1.75

175%.  jim is 175% times older than john.  which is what you found,
polyt.  {I'll have to re-read your logic now that im awake..}

Or, how much more, in % is 16t than 15, it is 1.0/15.0 which is 6%.
etc,  etc.

Hm.  that's 0 for gary, 729 for polytrop!!

Ah, life:: accept no substitutes.




-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
  Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: way way off topic

[Gezeala M . Bacuño II]

% change = ( (present - past) / past ) * 100


On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 08:52:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
 On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:31:18 +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote:
  Gary,
 
  On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
  
   apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C 
   program,
   but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet my last cent 
   that I
   had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that either.
  
   here is the problem as best I can remember it.
  
  
   let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.
   how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?
 
  That should be 22/8=2.75
  Jim is 275% older than John

 Jim is 175% _older_. Why? Because 100% older means 16 years,
 as 100% refers to 8 years (8+8=16, 200% older is 8+8+8=24).
 Percentage is always a reference to something else, in this
 question, Jim's age in relation to John's. The word older
 means adding percentage, refering to the base value of 8,
 divided in 100 parts (floating point considerations aside),
 to finally reach the value 22.

 If the question would be different, say, What's the percentage
 of John's age regarding Jim's age? In that case, it would be
 8/22=0.3636 being 36%. Obvious: John's age is approximately
 1/3 of Jim's age.

 The easiest way for creating the proper calculation is to refer
 to the equation

  percentage * 100
   percentage value = 
base value

 and resolve it to whatever is required.

 --
 Polytropon
 Magdeburg, Germany
 Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...


 yo; I THInk this is it. around line 4542 in my ~/.HowTo file::



 %%% find percent inc/dec [increase/decrease] between two numbers.

 Always figure the percentage of change relative to the original value!
 For instance: * Suppose a certain item used to sell for seventy-five
 cents a pound, you see that it's been marked up to eighty-one cents a
 pound. What is the percent increase?

 First, I have to find the absolute
 increase:
 Reserved 81 - 75 = 6

 The price has gone up six cents. Now I can find the
 percentage increase over the original price.

 This percentage increase is the relative change: 6/75 = 0.08
 ...or an 8% increase in price per pound.



 So I was wrong about ages or speed; it's the % betwen two ints;
 here, the inc/dec [or change] between 75 cents as compared to
 an inflated increase of 81 cents.

 1.  find abs increase:  81-75 = 6;
 2   find the % increase over the *original* value. 6.0/75.0
 3.  percent increase using doubles is 0.08;  so a markup of six
 cents is an 8% rate.


 so: going back to the ages example with john bein 8, jim, 22.
 22-8 is 14.
 14.0/8.0 = 1.75

 175%.  jim is 175% times older than john.  which is what you found,
 polyt.  {I'll have to re-read your logic now that im awake..}

 Or, how much more, in % is 16t than 15, it is 1.0/15.0 which is 6%.
 etc,  etc.

 Hm.  that's 0 for gary, 729 for polytrop!!

 Ah, life:: accept no substitutes.




 --
  Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
   Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: way way off topic

[Gary Kline]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 05:52:02PM -0700, Gezeala M. Bacuño II wrote:
 % change = ( (present - past) / past ) * 100
 


yeah, this is exactly it for my how much more is 16 than 15
problem. or the ages example. 

It's 6.6[bar-over .6]%  this is probably close to or exactly
what was the core of my C [argc, *srgv[]] program.   my error was in
not understanding the logic that polttropon has given below.  if/when
I ever find that v short exercise, THIS time, il'l remember to
'splain stuff in

/*
 * comments
 */


 
 On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
  On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 08:52:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
  On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:31:18 +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote:
   Gary,
  
   On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:
   
apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C 
program,
but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet my last 
cent that I
had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that either.
   
here is the problem as best I can remember it.
   
   
let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.
how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?
  
   That should be 22/8=2.75
   Jim is 275% older than John
 
  Jim is 175% _older_. Why? Because 100% older means 16 years,
  as 100% refers to 8 years (8+8=16, 200% older is 8+8+8=24).
  Percentage is always a reference to something else, in this
  question, Jim's age in relation to John's. The word older
  means adding percentage, refering to the base value of 8,
  divided in 100 parts (floating point considerations aside),
  to finally reach the value 22.
 
  If the question would be different, say, What's the percentage
  of John's age regarding Jim's age? In that case, it would be
  8/22=0.3636 being 36%. Obvious: John's age is approximately
  1/3 of Jim's age.
 
  The easiest way for creating the proper calculation is to refer
  to the equation
 
   percentage * 100
percentage value = 
 base value
 
  and resolve it to whatever is required.
 
  --
  Polytropon
  Magdeburg, Germany
  Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
  Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
 
 
  yo; I THInk this is it. around line 4542 in my ~/.HowTo file::
 
 
 
  %%% find percent inc/dec [increase/decrease] between two numbers.
 
  Always figure the percentage of change relative to the original value!
  For instance: * Suppose a certain item used to sell for seventy-five
  cents a pound, you see that it's been marked up to eighty-one cents a
  pound. What is the percent increase?
 
  First, I have to find the absolute
  increase:
  Reserved 81 - 75 = 6
 
  The price has gone up six cents. Now I can find the
  percentage increase over the original price.
 
  This percentage increase is the relative change: 6/75 = 0.08
  ...or an 8% increase in price per pound.
 
 
 
  So I was wrong about ages or speed; it's the % betwen two ints;
  here, the inc/dec [or change] between 75 cents as compared to
  an inflated increase of 81 cents.
 
  1.  find abs increase:  81-75 = 6;
  2   find the % increase over the *original* value. 6.0/75.0
  3.  percent increase using doubles is 0.08;  so a markup of six
  cents is an 8% rate.
 
 
  so: going back to the ages example with john bein 8, jim, 22.
  22-8 is 14.
  14.0/8.0 = 1.75
 
  175%.  jim is 175% times older than john.  which is what you found,
  polyt.  {I'll have to re-read your logic now that im awake..}
 
  Or, how much more, in % is 16t than 15, it is 1.0/15.0 which is 6%.
  etc,  etc.
 
  Hm.  that's 0 for gary, 729 for polytrop!!
 
  Ah, life:: accept no substitutes.
 
 
 
 
  --
   Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.
 
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  Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: way way off topic

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 18:13:05 -0700
Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:

 On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 05:52:02PM -0700, Gezeala M. Bacuño II wrote:
 if/when I ever find that v short exercise, THIS time, il'l remember to
   'splain stuff in
 
   /*
* comments
*/
 
your programs are not self-explanatory?

Erich
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way way off topic

[Gary Kline]

apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C program,
but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet my last cent that I
had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that either.

here is the problem as best I can remember it.


let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.  
how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?

to find the answer I had to find the relative difference {22 - 8} and then
do something with the difference.  this isn't any kind of trick or 
advanced-cognition; I just thought it was clever [and exact].  it obviously
works for finding the abs() results in subtraction.  it's something I found on
the web and swipes and save the prose discussion.  BZZT: Lost, :-(

if this seems dumb, I plead guilty!

im asking here because -questions is the sharpest list on the net.

-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
  Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: way way off topic

[Olivier Nicole]

Gary,

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:

 apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C program,
 but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet my last cent that 
 I
 had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that either.

 here is the problem as best I can remember it.


 let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.
 how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?

That should be 22/8=2.75
Jim is 275% older than John

Olivier

 to find the answer I had to find the relative difference {22 - 8} and then
 do something with the difference.  this isn't any kind of trick or
 advanced-cognition; I just thought it was clever [and exact].  it obviously
 works for finding the abs() results in subtraction.  it's something I found on
 the web and swipes and save the prose discussion.  BZZT: Lost, :-(

 if this seems dumb, I plead guilty!

 im asking here because -questions is the sharpest list on the net.

 --
  Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
   Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: way way off topic

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 21:20:07 -0700
Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote:

 
 apologies up front for this math type quandary. I had it in a std C
 program, but 3+ hours of grepping havent found it.  I would have bet
 my last cent that I had a summary Somewhere, but cant find that
 either.
 
 here is the problem as best I can remember it.
 
 
   let's say that john is 8 and his older friend, jim, is 22.  
   how much older is exact percentage terms is jim?
 
 to find the answer I had to find the relative difference {22 - 8} and
 then do something with the difference.  this isn't any kind of trick
 or advanced-cognition; I just thought it was clever [and exact].
 it obviously works for finding the abs() results in subtraction.
 it's something I found on the web and swipes and save the prose
 discussion.  BZZT: Lost, :-(
 
It seems that I am also lost. What should abs() do here?

I would multiply the age of john and the difference with 100 and then
divide the result to get the percentage.

Or did I get lost here?

 if this seems dumb, I plead guilty!
 
 im asking here because -questions is the sharpest list on the net.
 

Are you sure?

Erich
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Repeaters [off topic]

[Bob Hall]

I'm using a repeater to grab a wireless signal and pass it to my local
(wired) lan. For various reasons I won't go into a repeater is, in
theory, the best way to do this. However, I'm having trouble finding a
repeater that isn't garbage. I've been through 2 Linksys units, both of
which required constant reboots and both of which died after almost
exactly a year. I tried a Hawking HWREN1 which is still working after
slightly more than a year but has trouble with encrypted traffic and
also requires frequent reboots. I also tried a Hawking HW2R1, which was
much less flaky than the HWREN1 and handled encrypted traffic OK, but
died after about 3 months.

Since these things cost $100-$140 apiece, it would be cost effective to
to pay more for a unit that worked consistently and didn't die after a
few months of light use. Has anyone on the list used a repeater that
they had good experience with?

Bob Hall
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Re: Repeaters [off topic]

[Chris]

How about overlaying the lynksys OS with something like ddwrt

Sent from my HTC.

- Reply message -
From: Bob Hall musikte...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 12:30 pm
Subject: Repeaters [off topic]
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org

I'm using a repeater to grab a wireless signal and pass it to my local
(wired) lan. For various reasons I won't go into a repeater is, in
theory, the best way to do this. However, I'm having trouble finding a
repeater that isn't garbage. I've been through 2 Linksys units, both of
which required constant reboots and both of which died after almost
exactly a year. I tried a Hawking HWREN1 which is still working after
slightly more than a year but has trouble with encrypted traffic and
also requires frequent reboots. I also tried a Hawking HW2R1, which was
much less flaky than the HWREN1 and handled encrypted traffic OK, but
died after about 3 months.

Since these things cost $100-$140 apiece, it would be cost effective to
to pay more for a unit that worked consistently and didn't die after a
few months of light use. Has anyone on the list used a repeater that
they had good experience with?

Bob Hall
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Re: Repeaters [off topic]

[rjhjr0]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:10:19AM -1000, Al Plant wrote:
 Bob Hall wrote:
  I'm using a repeater to grab a wireless signal and pass it to my local
  (wired) lan. For various reasons I won't go into a repeater is, in
  theory, the best way to do this. However, I'm having trouble finding a
  repeater that isn't garbage. I've been through 2 Linksys units, both of
  which required constant reboots and both of which died after almost
  exactly a year. I tried a Hawking HWREN1 which is still working after
  slightly more than a year but has trouble with encrypted traffic and
  also requires frequent reboots. I also tried a Hawking HW2R1, which was
  much less flaky than the HWREN1 and handled encrypted traffic OK, but
  died after about 3 months.
  
  Since these things cost $100-$140 apiece, it would be cost effective to
  to pay more for a unit that worked consistently and didn't die after a
  few months of light use. Has anyone on the list used a repeater that
  they had good experience with?
  
  Bob Hall
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 Aloha
 
 
 I have a similar system for a HP Linux mini that I use portably. It 
 works  at my home base as well as in several locations including on 
 board NCL ships.
 
 What is the origin of the wireless signal are you picking up to begin 
 with?

Landlord's wireless router.

 I sounds like interfere or no permission to use the originating signal.

I have permission; I have the passphrase necessary for access. Internet
access is included in my rent.

 If the original signal is flaky or blocked or timed out then the 
 repeater may not work.

The original signal is flaky. Even though I'm less than 75 feet from the
source, I use a high-gain antenna to compensate for a weak signal.
However, I was able to maintain semi-stable access with the HW2R1 and
antenna, until the HW2R1 died. (With the other three units, access
consistently sucked.) 

Flakiness doesn't explain why three out of four repeaters died in a year
or less. Traffic is light; I'm the only one using the repeater and I
mostly use the Internet for email and reading news sites. I never even
watched a video during the three months the HW2R1 was alive.

When I say that three of the repeaters died, I mean a total cessation of
function. They stopped functioning as repeaters, they stopped responding
to pings, their built-in web servers no longer provided the
configuration web pages, and rebooting didn't fix anything.

The HWREN1 that I'm using right now stops functioning as a repeater
several times a day, but I can still ping it and get the config pages.
Rebooting usually (but not always) gets it working again.  Sometimes I
have to ask the landlord to reboot the router. 

I can't get permission to install an ethernet cable. I've already asked.
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Re: Off Topic. DNS, Android.

[Wojciech Puchar]

a) Normally any Domain name registered has to have 2 Nameservers. Some


don't have to. but should.

registry like the one responsible for .ORG requires 2 at least to propagate 
the domain. In teh case of .COM that is not a requirement, one nameserver 
could work. If for some reason I have 2 of them and one is configured to 
point to SERVER A , and the other to SERVER B. Differenet places, same 
configuration. Is there any preference over what is PRIMARY NAMESERVER or 
SECONDARY NAMESERVER? I mean, Primary is the one used mainly?


actually when another DNS server resolve the name it may use any of them. 
Primary and secondary is mostly term for you - DNS operator.
Primary is the way where you type in domain definition file, secondary is 
the one that fetches the file from primary every time it was modified.


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Off Topic. DNS, Android.

[Jorge Biquez]

Hello.

I am sorry if the following 2 questions could sound too stupid.

a) Normally any Domain name registered has to have 2 Nameservers. 
Some registry like the one responsible for .ORG requires 2 at least 
to propagate the domain. In teh case of .COM that is not a 
requirement, one nameserver could work. If for some reason I have 2 
of them and one is configured to point to SERVER A , and the other to 
SERVER B. Differenet places, same configuration. Is there any 
preference over what is PRIMARY NAMESERVER or SECONDARY NAMESERVER? I 
mean, Primary is the one used mainly?


b) I am looking for good list like this one for people developing, 
learning about Android Development. Any suggestion ?

I am trying to setup a Freebsd machine for developing for Android, if possible.

Thanks in advance.

JB

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Re: Off Topic. DNS, Android.

[Chuck Swiger]

On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:28 PM, Jorge Biquez wrote:
 Hello.

Hola!

 I am sorry if the following 2 questions could sound too stupid.
 
 a) Normally any Domain name registered has to have 2 Nameservers. Some 
 registry like the one responsible for .ORG requires 2 at least to propagate 
 the domain. In teh case of .COM that is not a requirement, one nameserver 
 could work.

It's always a good idea to have at least two nameservers configured for any 
public domain, and best practice involves having nameservers located on 
different networks.

 If for some reason I have 2 of them and one is configured to point to SERVER 
 A , and the other to SERVER B. Differenet places, same configuration. Is 
 there any preference over what is PRIMARY NAMESERVER or SECONDARY NAMESERVER? 
 I mean, Primary is the one used mainly?

No, DNS round-robin used on most platforms will rotate fairly evenly.  And the 
traffic can be cached by other nameservers for a long(er) time by upping TTLs, 
if you wish to reduce network traffic load...at the tradeoff of making DNS 
changes take longer to be noticed, of course.

Bigger sites might adjust DNS traffic onto server pools with a load-balancer 
which does liveness checks of the nameservers and could be told to adjust 
traffic routing in various ways.  You can also do something similar via 
ipfw/natd's redirect_address  (see RFC 2391).

 b) I am looking for good list like this one for people developing, learning 
 about Android Development. Any suggestion ?
 I am trying to setup a Freebsd machine for developing for Android, if 
 possible.

Hmm.  http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html suggests that maybe the Linux 
distribution under FreeBSD's Linux emulation might be a possibility.

Regards,
-- 
-Chuck

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Re: Off Topic. DNS, Android.

[Stas Verberkt]

 b) I am looking for good list like this one for people developing,
 learning about Android Development. Any suggestion ?
 I am trying to setup a Freebsd machine for developing for Android, if
 possible.

 Hmm.  http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html suggests that maybe the
 Linux distribution under FreeBSD's Linux emulation might be a possibility.

On some blog, I read about http://bsdroid.org


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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado]

On 05/04/2012 07:51 PM, Kenneth Hatteland wrote:

Since the alpha forum for FreeBSD is closed, and there has not been
Alpha support since 6.4 I wondered about which OS to install on a alpha
server I am getting quite soon. I guess FreeBSD 6.4 is perhaps not the
best since it is not maintained and the ports tree likewise ?

So I checked the 2 other main contenders and just wanted to ask if
anyone here had an opinion what 2 install of the BSDs ? Or perhaps
FreeBSD 6.4 is a good choice ( I have not tested Open or Net BSD so
FreeBSD is my hometurf) The machine will probably be a server to have
fun with and hopefully learn something from. Perhaps some server role in
my rig, routing, security etc.

Any advise would be nice :)


Hi. I don't have experience with Alpha but OpenBSD supports this arch. 
Take a look:

- http://openbsd.org/51.html . The number of pre-built packages is not bad.
- http://openbsd.org/alpha.html

Cheers.



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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Kenneth Hatteland]

The idea of installing FreeBSD 6.4 and experiment with upgrading to7.x 
and above appeals to quite a lot. If anyone have tried this I`d like to 
know if it is doable. I guess I`ll pick up the server one of the coming 
days.


The tip on using OpenVMS is okay, I googled it. But this seems to be a 
commercial OS, and I have no money to spend on it, and I get the server 
for free to play with. So BSD will be fine.


I`ll try FreeBSD first, and OpenBSD next I think if the experience of 
FreeBSD 6.4 and above is not totally pleasant...



Kenneth Hatteland
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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Rod Person]

On Sat, 05 May 2012 19:20:10 +0200
Kenneth Hatteland kenneth.hattel...@kleppnett.no wrote:

 The idea of installing FreeBSD 6.4 and experiment with upgrading
 to7.x and above appeals to quite a lot. If anyone have tried this I`d
 like to know if it is doable. I guess I`ll pick up the server one of
 the coming days.

I have an Aspen Durango II Alpha server that I'm pretty sure I was able
to upgrade to 7.x using cvs. It been sitting ideal in my basement for a
few years now. I don't think you can go above 7.
 
 The tip on using OpenVMS is okay, I googled it. But this seems to be
 a commercial OS, and I have no money to spend on it, and I get the
 server for free to play with. So BSD will be fine.

The hobby license is free. You just need the media, which I think sells
for around 30 - 50 bucks when it pops up on Ebay. Not sure if the
Hobbyist still sell media.


-- 
Rod Person http://www.rodperson.com rodper...@rodperson.com
  
Let us in the name of the Holy Trinity, go on sending all the slaves 
 that can be sold. 
- Letter from Christopher Columbus.
  J.A. Rawley, The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade: A History. Pg.3
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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Polytropon]

On Sat, 05 May 2012 19:20:10 +0200, Kenneth Hatteland wrote:
 The idea of installing FreeBSD 6.4 and experiment with upgrading to7.x 
 and above appeals to quite a lot. If anyone have tried this I`d like to 
 know if it is doable. I guess I`ll pick up the server one of the coming 
 days.

It should be useful to pay attention to all security considerations,
and of course to features that the _software_ you want to run might
require from the OS.



 The tip on using OpenVMS is okay, I googled it. But this seems to be a 
 commercial OS, and I have no money to spend on it, and I get the server 
 for free to play with. So BSD will be fine.

OpenVMS offers, if I remember correctly, hobbyist licensing
which is less expensive than the commercial licensing.

Additionally, I've heared of FreeVMS, but I'm not sure if it's
still in development and will run on your hardware. It's supposed
to be a free (of costs) VMS-compatible operating system, if I
remember correctly.



 I`ll try FreeBSD first, and OpenBSD next I think if the experience of 
 FreeBSD 6.4 and above is not totally pleasant...

Try installing the OS, then continue with finding out what
specific software (from ports or packages) you'll need. Update
the system if needed, or if you're okay with a not so current
system, just leave the software as-is, if it fits your needs.



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Outback Dingo]

On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Rod Person rodper...@rodperson.com wrote:
 On Sat, 05 May 2012 19:20:10 +0200
 Kenneth Hatteland kenneth.hattel...@kleppnett.no wrote:

 The idea of installing FreeBSD 6.4 and experiment with upgrading
 to7.x and above appeals to quite a lot. If anyone have tried this I`d
 like to know if it is doable. I guess I`ll pick up the server one of
 the coming days.

 I have an Aspen Durango II Alpha server that I'm pretty sure I was able
 to upgrade to 7.x using cvs. It been sitting ideal in my basement for a
 few years now. I don't think you can go above 7.

 The tip on using OpenVMS is okay, I googled it. But this seems to be
 a commercial OS, and I have no money to spend on it, and I get the
 server for free to play with. So BSD will be fine.

 The hobby license is free. You just need the media, which I think sells
 for around 30 - 50 bucks when it pops up on Ebay. Not sure if the
 Hobbyist still sell media.

According to
http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/news.php

The OpenVMS Hobbyist Program now has a new licensing portal on the
popular OpenVMS.org site. You can find the announcement here:
http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=12/01/27/8782690

License registration is located at
http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Hobbyist

And check out part where is says In addition, the OpenVMS Hobbyist
Program offers kits containing OpenVMS Base O/S software and selected
Layered Products via download. I know this is something that's been
asked about on several occasions, and HP has finally taken it to
heart. This should also allow the Hobbyist Program to provide a lot
more Layered Products that previously available.

So it seems it is still possible, if he desired to pursue it. I still
have FreeBSD Alpha, and OpenVMS Alpha/Itanium systems chugging along.



 --
 Rod Person         http://www.rodperson.com     rodper...@rodperson.com

 Let us in the name of the Holy Trinity, go on sending all the slaves
  that can be sold.
 - Letter from Christopher Columbus.
  J.A. Rawley, The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade: A History. Pg.3
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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Anton Shterenlikht]

 I still have FreeBSD Alpha, and OpenVMS Alpha/Itanium systems chugging along.

Now, ia64 is another story.
I run fbsd 10-current on ia64.

Have you tried fbsd on ia64?
Are you at all interested in this?

-- 
Anton Shterenlikht
Room 2.6, Queen's Building
Mech Eng Dept
Bristol University
University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK
Tel: +44 (0)117 331 5944
Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423
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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Outback Dingo]

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Erik Nørgaard norga...@locolomo.org wrote:
 On 04/05/2012 19:51, Kenneth Hatteland wrote:

 So I checked the 2 other main contenders and just wanted to ask if
 anyone here had an opinion what 2 install of the BSDs ? Or perhaps
 FreeBSD 6.4 is a good choice ( I have not tested Open or Net BSD so
 FreeBSD is my hometurf) The machine will probably be a server to have
 fun with and hopefully learn something from. Perhaps some server role in
 my rig, routing, security etc.

 Any advise would be nice :)

QNX will not run on the Alpha architecture, freeBSD 6.4 in my opinion
is still the far better choice for anything alpha
the only other thing i would recommend oin that platorm would be
OpenVMS from the hobbyist kit. But then again
I only run real Operating systems on my Alphas :)



 A few things you could consider:

 - which OS seems to be the most active? I recall NetBSD was about a dead end
 a few years ago, but maybe they got back.

 - which OS seems to offer you the best learning oportunity? If you're
 interested in security OpenBSD might be a choice.

 ... but then, why not try both, it's free.

 Or consider something completely different? If I had to go BSD, and not
 FreeBSD, I'd go with OpenBSD for the security. But I'd much rather like to
 try a microkernel system like QNX if that would be an alternative.

 BR, Erik

 --
 M: +34 666 334 818
 T: +34 915 211 157

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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Anton Shterenlikht]

On Fri, May 04, 2012 at 04:45:17PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
 On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Erik N?rgaard norga...@locolomo.org wrote:
  On 04/05/2012 19:51, Kenneth Hatteland wrote:
 
  So I checked the 2 other main contenders and just wanted to ask if
  anyone here had an opinion what 2 install of the BSDs ? Or perhaps
  FreeBSD 6.4 is a good choice ( I have not tested Open or Net BSD so
  FreeBSD is my hometurf) The machine will probably be a server to have
  fun with and hopefully learn something from. Perhaps some server role in
  my rig, routing, security etc.
 
  Any advise would be nice :)
 
 QNX will not run on the Alpha architecture, freeBSD 6.4 in my opinion
 is still the far better choice for anything alpha
 the only other thing i would recommend oin that platorm would be
 OpenVMS from the hobbyist kit. But then again
 I only run real Operating systems on my Alphas :)

6.4 is way past EOL. It's irresponsible to recommend it.
I've run VMS on Alphas for several years,
there's nothing wrong with it. Indeed,
it's very good. Plus VMS Alpha is
highly optimised. You are unlikely to
get a similar performance from any other
OS on this architecture.

If you want to learn UNIX, then I strongly
recommend FreeBSD, but do not use an
obsolete version.

-- 
Anton Shterenlikht
Room 2.6, Queen's Building
Mech Eng Dept
Bristol University
University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK
Tel: +44 (0)117 331 5944
Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423
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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Robert Bonomi]

Anton Shterenlikht me...@bristol.ac.uk wrote:
 On Fri, May 04, 2012 at 04:45:17PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
  On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Erik N?rgaard norga...@locolomo.org wrote:
   On 04/05/2012 19:51, Kenneth Hatteland wrote:
  
   So I checked the 2 other main contenders and just wanted to ask if
   anyone here had an opinion what 2 install of the BSDs ? Or perhaps
   FreeBSD 6.4 is a good choice ( I have not tested Open or Net BSD so
   FreeBSD is my hometurf) The machine will probably be a server to have
   fun with and hopefully learn something from. Perhaps some server role in
   my rig, routing, security etc.
  
   Any advise would be nice :)
  
  QNX will not run on the Alpha architecture, freeBSD 6.4 in my opinion
  is still the far better choice for anything alpha
  the only other thing i would recommend oin that platorm would be
  OpenVMS from the hobbyist kit. But then again
  I only run real Operating systems on my Alphas :)

 6.4 is way past EOL. It's irresponsible to recommend it.

Dec ALPHAs are way past EOL.  DEC, itself, is way past EOL.

For obselete hardware one frequetly has no alternative but to run an
obselete operating system.

The OP has already decided on a *BSD.  Recommending VMS, of any form, is 
not a 'helpful'/'responsive' response to his questions.  You *don't*know*
_why_ he has selected *BSD, so you have _no_ idea whether VMS is viable
or his needs.

Given that he -needs- a *BSD on _that_ hardware which which 'flavor' would
you recomend?  Or would you insist he discard that hardware and replace
it with something current?   inquiring minds want to know.  *grin*
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Re: Off topic: NetBSD or OpenBSD for Alpha server ?

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 4 May 2012 17:11:00 -0500 (CDT), Robert Bonomi wrote:
 For obselete hardware one frequetly has no alternative but to run an
 obselete operating system.

Depending on the actual intention of use, it _may_ be no
problem to use obsolete operating systems and software.
(For example, I still have a FreeBSD 5.4 system with lots
of applications installed, perfectly working on a 300 MHz
system, intended for special purposes; I would _never_
use that as a server facing the Internet!)



 The OP has already decided on a *BSD.  Recommending VMS, of any form, is 
 not a 'helpful'/'responsive' response to his questions.  You *don't*know*
 _why_ he has selected *BSD, so you have _no_ idea whether VMS is viable
 or his needs.
 
 Given that he -needs- a *BSD on _that_ hardware which which 'flavor' would
 you recomend?  Or would you insist he discard that hardware and replace
 it with something current?   inquiring minds want to know.  *grin*

It there is a _required_ reason to run Alpha hardware, an
older FreeBSD OS isn't a bad choice. Depending on the
availability of sources (per /usr/ports of _that_ version)
or of packages (from the installation media of _that_ version,
or $PACKAGESITE pointing to the correct archives on the FreBSD
FTP server), software can be installed. There's also the
excellent tool portdowngrade. However, it may be a try  miss
to find out what software still runs, what _current_ software
can be made running, and what operation procedures still work.
This _ALL_ depends on what the system should be used for.
Only the OP can decide about what applies, and what doesn't.



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Eduardo Morras]

At 05:27 10/04/2012, you wrote:

Hello all.


Thanks in advance for your time and comments.


Perhaps this app may help you:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/teachercp/

There are commercial apps too that do the same and more.

HTH


Jorge Biquez



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RE: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Terrence Koeman]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 at 05:27:24, Jorge Biquez wrote:

 Hello all.
 
 I am sorry if this is kind OFF Topic. I am looking for help from more
 experienced people in these areas. Please let me know if this
 question should be moved to FREEBSD-CHAT list.
 
 As I have mentioned before I am helping a school , non profit with
 their IT issues. As always there are some experts that controls
 everything and do not let you change anything because is their
 kingdom. Anyway, there we have Internet service  from a cable company
 and they have some cisco routers to receive the access and from there
 some Cisco Switches.
 In the classrooms we have very old PCs running XP. In some of my
 classes I am using Freebsd and Ubuntu running on a USB. So each
 student have one USB and they work that way booting from their 4GB
 USB stick. (it is slow but it has worked until now).
 
 One of the managers asked me for help to block some web sites were
 some students in the other lab and people that helps there waste
 bandwithd seeing videos, movies (youtube, cuevana, serieid, etc) and
 spend lot of time on facebook also. Our bandwidth is only 4Mb and you
 understand that with a few that are seeing movies and videos the rest
 of us can not work at all. Thing is that other manager (you know
 how those things are sometimes) do not want us to do that since his
 guru and expert is the one that controls all the Network. So the
 best we could get until now is that we can do all we can without
 touching the Cisco routers and until now not administrative password
 for change anything on the PCs (that could change one we prove that
 we can have the solution and show it to the board of people that runs
 the place).
 
 The Internet provider gives the DNS servers to use and one of the
 routers gives the DHCP service.
 
 First thing I thought was to change the DNS servers and use the one
 from my small office (running Freebsd 7.3) using Bind there and
 simply block there pointing the sites to nothing in the Apache
 configuration. It does not work. Once changed the DNS values the PC
 does not resolve anything. It was a quick test but that does not
 work. Not sure if Internet provider is blocking in some way that we
 can not use other DNS server but theirs.
 
 Other solution I was thinking while coming home was to convert one
 machine there to a freebsd server and use it as a router (if they let
 me) so that way I can control from there and do filtering. Issue is
 that maybe they do not let me but connect the server as an extra
 machine without replacing the main router so in that case I would
 have 2 DHCP servers doing the same service in the same lan and could
 be conflicts I guess.
 
 Another solution a friend suggested was to buy one small router (from my
 money for sure) and let that small router to receive the internet (RJ45)
 and from that with the small 4 port switch included to provide the
 internet to the switches to feed the labs , library and administrative
 offices. I have never use one of those and I am short on money so I
 would like to explore other alternatives before if possible.
 
 Finally another solution would be to install in each PC a kind of
 Nanny software but only if free, otherwise is not a solution (I do
 not know of any yet but will do searching the following hours).
 
 I know all can be solved if the guru-expert guy would let me have
 passwords from PC's, router, etc but that won't be an option since
 they think we would try to take the control of those services (we do
 not want that) so the burocracy could be a problem there. He have
 told them that to block is not possible (they have been working that
 way for years).
 
 So, in this kind of schema. Do you think FreeBSD (even linux) could
 be of help if we do not have access to routers, switches and can not
 install new software on the PCs( the ones running XP)?
 
 Any comments you have that could help me to solve this challenge?

You could ask the guru-expert guy to implement traffic shaping like
weighted fair queuing and prioritizing SYN's etc. That way people can watch
all the videos they want without it affecting the work of others.

You can also implement it yourself transparently with a FreeBSD box with two
adapters bridged and something like ipfw+dummynet, you'd just need to insert
it somewhere in the route (before any masquerading is performed though).

-- 
Regards,
T. Koeman, MTh/BSc/BPsy; Technical Monk

MediaMonks B.V. (www.mediamonks.com)
Please quote relevant replies in correspondence.


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Fbsd8]

Jorge Biquez wrote:

Hello all.

snip
In the classrooms we have very old PCs running XP. In some of my classes 
I am using Freebsd and Ubuntu running on a USB. So each student have one 
USB and they work that way booting from their 4GB USB stick. (it is slow 
but it has worked until now).


One of the managers asked me for help to block some web sites were some 
students in the other lab and people that helps there waste bandwithd 
seeing videos, movies (youtube, cuevana, serieid, etc) and spend lot of 
time on facebook also. Our bandwidth is only 4Mb and you understand that 
with a few that are seeing movies and videos the rest of us can not work 
at all. 



snip

Other solution I was thinking while coming home was to convert one 
machine there to a freebsd server and use it as a router (if they let 
me) so that way I can control from there and do filtering. Issue is that 
maybe they do not let me but connect the server as an extra machine 
without replacing the main router so in that case I would have 2 DHCP 
servers doing the same service in the same lan and could be conflicts I 
guess.


This method is very common. You have 2 methods here. Both methods will 
give you a central location to control both windows and Freebsd PC's on 
the local LAN as to what ip address they can access.


Replace the main router with your Freebsd gateway box or just cable your 
main router to the Freebsd gateway box running ipfilter or pf firewall 
and dhcp. Then from second nic on the Freebsd gateway box to your 
existing switch. Configure dhcp on the Freebsd gateway box to issue ip 
address in the 10.0.10.0 range and specify the ip addresses of the dns 
servers of the ISP. Enable NAT (network address translation) function of 
the firewall.


If you replace the main router with the Freebsd gateway box, then the 
Freebsd gateway box will get the public routable ip address assigned by 
the ISP. If you place the Freebsd gateway box down stream of the main 
router then it will get 192.168.x.x  ip address from the main router. 
This is ok and will work fine.


You did not say, but some ISP modems have built in routers, if that is 
what you are calling the main router then you can not replace it. Your 
Freebsd gateway box has to be down stream in this case.


Here is a good resource for you to review Freebsd Install Guide at 
 www.a1poweruser.com


snip

Finally another solution would be to install in each PC a kind of Nanny 
software but only if free, otherwise is not a solution (I do not know of 
any yet but will do searching the following hours).


snip




On each Freebsd pc blocking selected ip addresses can be done using the 
routed blackhole command.


Example:

To Add use  route add -host attacker_ip 127.0.0.1 -blackhole

To Delete use   route delete -host attacker_ip 127.0.0.1 -blackhole

To List use netstat -nr|grep 127

This is executed in the IP stack and is faster than in the firewall when 
you have over 20 of those special deny this IP address rules in the 
firewall. In your case the attacker_ip is found by using the dig 
command, dig www.facebook.com returns the ip address of 69.171.228.40


You can create a script (route_blackholed_ip.sh) containing route 
commands for all the IP address that you want to block and save it to 
/usr/local/etc/rc.d/ so it will be run at boot time from the USB thumb 
drives your students use to boot Freebsd from.




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Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Jerome Herman]

On 10/04/2012 05:27, Jorge Biquez wrote:

Hello all.

I am sorry if this is kind OFF Topic. I am looking for help from more 
experienced people in these areas. Please let me know if this question 
should be moved to FREEBSD-CHAT list.


As I have mentioned before I am helping a school , non profit with 
their IT issues. As always there are some experts that controls 
everything and do not let you change anything because is their 
kingdom. Anyway, there we have Internet service  from a cable company 
and they have some cisco routers to receive the access and from there 
some Cisco Switches.


They won't let you do things not because it is their kingdom, but 
because they certainly have a contract with prices for services and 
penalties for lack of services. As IT professional they want to make 
their lives simpler and have whoever benefits from a service pay for it.
This is a logical and sane attitude to have. Now if you want to meddle 
with the stuff they are legally responsible for you need to prove them a 
few things :
1 - Nothing you do will impact them in terms of workload. You might be 
working for free (and it is very noble of you), but they are trying to 
earn their lives here. So more work for the same price is not an option.
2 - You can be trusted and you have good skills. This start by 
explaining fully what you want to achieve, how you will do it and (most 
important point) how fast anything you do can be undone. No matter what 
solution you choose it is likely to have side effects, especially since 
you have no knowledge of what is installed and how it is set-up, except 
what you can guess probing here and there without administrative rights. 
No matter how simple and innocuous you solution may seem, it might break 
the first rule, for example a FreeBSD Gateway might prevent patches from 
a WSUS server to be applied, it might prevent remote control, it might 
prevent alert mails to be sent or received and so on.
3 - You have to right the full documentation of what you are going to 
do, give all the administrative password of your solution to the 
experts, complete with a good deal of explanation on how to use, 
remove or change the system. It is also important that they know they 
can remove your own rights on your own solution if need be. The reason 
are you may not always be available and you may not always be lucid or 
in good terms with the school. If a problem arise they have to be able 
to take full control back, on way or another.
4 - You will find a way to pay them for your solution. Even if you do 
everything yourself, and have enough skill to do it right without them 
helping at any point (which is extremely unlikely), the time needed for 
the experts to review, test, validate and potentially maintain your 
solution will have to be paid.   The closer the solution is to what they 
already know and have a staff trained for, the lighter the price. But do 
not expect them accept a solution that might bring them troubles but 
won't bring them money.


The main problem you might have is that you do not seem to have any 
respect for the guys in charge. True I do not know your history with 
them, and they may not deserve respect, but as an IT manager for quite a 
lot of companies both large and small I can tell you one thing : We 
positively loathe the smart guy with a (most of the time very small) IT 
background that springs out of nowhere to bring simple solutions to 
complex problems. 99.9 % of the time they end up giving up with the job 
half done or they disappear just as suddenly as they appeared taking all 
their knowledge with them. From the director 13 years old nephew who can 
have the thing running in minutes (or so the director seems to think) to 
the junior analyst that will replace a behemoth of ETL processed files 
and Excel sheets with a single Access app because he has read the first 
three chapter of VBA for Brain Damaged last week,  we see them coming 
from miles away and needless to say that there are no warms welcome when 
they finally arrive.
The only way to get anywhere is to be humble and then impress the 
experts with your professional and exhaustive approach of the 
problem.  Anything else will lead to the experts telling you that to 
achieve the result you want you will need to purchase the solution they 
know (probably a Checkpoint/Baracuda/Blue Coat/what else appliance) and 
then pay monthly for maintenance.


There are literally thousands of solutions to your problem, ranging from 
simply installing K9 on every computer to a complex set up with QOS, 
LDAP/KERBEROS auth and rights delegation going to a redundant active 
proxy with cache and filtering.


Given the small size of the lan, an old and small computer with two 
ethernet cards and PFSense could probably do the trick, but you will 
need insight from the guys in charge to be sure.
Dans Guardian can offer content filtering, but will require more RAM and 
CPU power.
Cheap commercial appliances will do

Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Joshua Isom]

On 4/9/2012 10:27 PM, Jorge Biquez wrote:


As always there are some experts that controls everything
and do not let you change anything because is their kingdom.


What do they control?  The network infrastructure?


One of the managers asked me for help to block some web sites were some
students in the other lab and people that helps there waste bandwithd
seeing videos, movies (youtube, cuevana, serieid, etc) and spend lot of
time on facebook also.


This is a network issue.  You can try to detect a client using too much 
bandwith for a period of time, and then throttle them.  Dropping tcp 
packets will force throttling.  Blocking websites is more effective at a 
firewall than a desktop.



with a few that are seeing movies and videos the rest of us can not work
at all. Thing is that other manager (you know how those things are
sometimes) do not want us to do that since his guru and expert is the
one that controls all the Network. So the best we could get until now is
that we can do all we can without touching the Cisco routers and until
now not administrative password for change anything on the PCs (that
could change one we prove that we can have the solution and show it to
the board of people that runs the place).


They're asking you to fix a network problem but refuse to give you 
control of the network.  Ask the administrators what happens if all the 
software you've installed is bypassed by someone bringing in a laptop, 
or you switch to WiFi and everyone's on a cell phone you done control. 
Deal with the problem at the network.



The Internet provider gives the DNS servers to use and one of the
routers gives the DHCP service.

First thing I thought was to change the DNS servers and use the one from
my small office (running Freebsd 7.3) using Bind there and simply block
there pointing the sites to nothing in the Apache configuration. It does
not work. Once changed the DNS values the PC does not resolve anything.
It was a quick test but that does not work. Not sure if Internet
provider is blocking in some way that we can not use other DNS server
but theirs.


Google is 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4, easy enough to remember, and circumvent.


Other solution I was thinking while coming home was to convert one
machine there to a freebsd server and use it as a router (if they let
me) so that way I can control from there and do filtering. Issue is that
maybe they do not let me but connect the server as an extra machine
without replacing the main router so in that case I would have 2 DHCP
servers doing the same service in the same lan and could be conflicts I
guess.


That's affecting the network and causing a mess for no good reason.


Another solution a friend suggested was to buy one small router (from my
money for sure) and let that small router to receive the internet (RJ45)
and from that with the small 4 port switch included to provide the
internet to the switches to feed the labs , library and administrative
offices. I have never use one of those and I am short on money so I
would like to explore other alternatives before if possible.


Adding a router won't help for the real problem.


Finally another solution would be to install in each PC a kind of Nanny
software but only if free, otherwise is not a solution (I do not know of
any yet but will do searching the following hours).


And then you have to trust the software.  Some software will ban health 
information, such as breast cancer, but because of so many porn websites 
created so fast they can still allow porn.  In any case, it's just a 
firewall.



I know all can be solved if the guru-expert guy would let me have
passwords from PC's, router, etc but that won't be an option since they
think we would try to take the control of those services (we do not want
that) so the burocracy could be a problem there. He have told them that
to block is not possible (they have been working that way for years).


The block is possible, but it's a network issue, the other guy.  Either 
he does it, or you take over the network.  The more centralized and 
built into the network it is, the more effective it is.



So, in this kind of schema. Do you think FreeBSD (even linux) could be
of help if we do not have access to routers, switches and can not
install new software on the PCs( the ones running XP)?


No.  You lack the network control to control student's computer use.


Any comments you have that could help me to solve this challenge?

Thanks in advance for your time and comments.

Jorge Biquez

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Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Robert Bonomi]

Jorge Biquez jbiq...@intranet.com.mx wrote:

 Hello all.

 One of the managers asked me for help to block some web sites were 
 some students in the other lab and people that helps there waste 
 bandwithd seeing videos, movies (youtube, cuevana, serieid, etc) and 
 spend lot of time on facebook also. Our bandwidth is only 4Mb and you 
 understand that with a few that are seeing movies and videos the rest 
 of us can not work at all. Thing is that other manager (you know 
 how those things are sometimes) do not want us to do that since his 
 guru and expert is the one that controls all the Network. So the 
 best we could get until now is that we can do all we can without 
 touching the Cisco routers and until now not administrative password 
 for change anything on the PCs (that could change one we prove that 
 we can have the solution and show it to the board of people that runs 
 the place).

[.. sneck ]]

 So, in this kind of schema. Do you think FreeBSD (even linux) could 
 be of help if we do not have access to routers, switches and can not 
 install new software on the PCs( the ones running XP)?

 Any comments you have that could help me to solve this challenge?

This is doable -if- you can insert a, say FreeBSD, box in the network
-between- the labs and the outside world, where all the traffic can
be forced to go -through- that box.  it would basically function as a i
two-port router.   This would probably require 'minor' configuration
changes on the boxes on each side of the box you are adding (tweaking
the 'routing' stuff, because there will be a new device/IP-address
involved).

IF you can get a box in that position, then 'ipfw', or 'pf', the 'firewall'
utilities, will allow you to block traffic to/from selected netblocks.

It will be somewhat 'maintainence' intensive, keeping the address-block
list up to date -- as users find 'new and different' sources for the
'banned' content.

somewhat *more* effective would be a tool that monitors 'who' each
PC in the lab is connected to, -and- an indication of traffic levels
or that PC.   this can be accomplished by a box sitting somwehre that
it can 'see' all the LAN traffic -- does -not- have to be inserted
in-line like the 'filtering' box does.   Something like 'tcpdump' to
capture LAN traffic, piped into a (probably custom) analyzer that tracks
source/dest IP addresses, packet 'data' size, and relevant data 'flags'
(syn/fin mostly) can tell the lab supervisor  which use they need to
'speak firmly' to.  This -is- a 'people' problem, not a technology 
issue -- therefore, make the solution a *people*-based one.

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Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Mark Felder]

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 23:21:58 -0500, Da Rock  
freebsd-questi...@herveybayaustralia.com.au wrote


For the interim (and as a POC), setup squid and dans guardian and point  
the browsers to proxy using that machine. Prove your point and then  
explain that this can be done transparently if you had some control of  
the routers.




He could just do a MITM on the default gateway via ettercap. Not very  
ethical, but it would certainly work ^_^

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Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Tuesday 10 April 2012 10:27:24 Jorge Biquez wrote:
 
 As I have mentioned before I am helping a school , non profit with 

non profit -- no cost?

 One of the managers asked me for help to block some web sites were 

Have you checked hosts?

A rough but easy way.

Erich
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Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Jorge Biquez]

Hello all.

I am sorry if this is kind OFF Topic. I am looking for help from more 
experienced people in these areas. Please let me know if this 
question should be moved to FREEBSD-CHAT list.


As I have mentioned before I am helping a school , non profit with 
their IT issues. As always there are some experts that controls 
everything and do not let you change anything because is their 
kingdom. Anyway, there we have Internet service  from a cable company 
and they have some cisco routers to receive the access and from there 
some Cisco Switches.
In the classrooms we have very old PCs running XP. In some of my 
classes I am using Freebsd and Ubuntu running on a USB. So each 
student have one USB and they work that way booting from their 4GB 
USB stick. (it is slow but it has worked until now).


One of the managers asked me for help to block some web sites were 
some students in the other lab and people that helps there waste 
bandwithd seeing videos, movies (youtube, cuevana, serieid, etc) and 
spend lot of time on facebook also. Our bandwidth is only 4Mb and you 
understand that with a few that are seeing movies and videos the rest 
of us can not work at all. Thing is that other manager (you know 
how those things are sometimes) do not want us to do that since his 
guru and expert is the one that controls all the Network. So the 
best we could get until now is that we can do all we can without 
touching the Cisco routers and until now not administrative password 
for change anything on the PCs (that could change one we prove that 
we can have the solution and show it to the board of people that runs 
the place).


The Internet provider gives the DNS servers to use and one of the 
routers gives the DHCP service.


First thing I thought was to change the DNS servers and use the one 
from my small office (running Freebsd 7.3) using Bind there and 
simply block there pointing the sites to nothing in the Apache 
configuration. It does not work. Once changed the DNS values the PC 
does not resolve anything. It was a quick test but that does not 
work. Not sure if Internet provider is blocking in some way that we 
can not use other DNS server but theirs.


Other solution I was thinking while coming home was to convert one 
machine there to a freebsd server and use it as a router (if they let 
me) so that way I can control from there and do filtering. Issue is 
that maybe they do not let me but connect the server as an extra 
machine without replacing the main router so in that case I would 
have 2 DHCP servers doing the same service in the same lan and could 
be conflicts I guess.


Another solution a friend suggested was to buy one small router (from 
my money for sure) and let that small router to receive the internet 
(RJ45) and from that with the small 4 port switch included to provide 
the internet to the switches to feed the labs , library and 
administrative offices. I have never use one of those and I am short 
on money so I would like to explore other alternatives before if possible.


Finally another solution would be to install in each PC a kind of 
Nanny software but only if free, otherwise is not a solution (I do 
not know of any yet but will do searching the following hours).


I know all can be solved if the guru-expert guy would let me have 
passwords from PC's, router, etc but that won't be an option since 
they think we would try to take the control of those services (we do 
not want that) so the burocracy could be a problem there. He have 
told them that to block is not possible (they have been working that 
way for years).


So, in this kind of schema. Do you think FreeBSD (even linux) could 
be of help if we do not have access to routers, switches and can not 
install new software on the PCs( the ones running XP)?


Any comments you have that could help me to solve this challenge?

Thanks in advance for your time and comments.

Jorge Biquez

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Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Mark Felder]

I've been in this position before. Transparent proxy running Squid and  
Dansguardian will solve most of your problems. And having a local cache  
will help fix your low bandwidth issue. Your skill level and networking  
knowledge will determine how achievable this is, but it's a great solution  
when you have it in place.


Good luck!
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Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Robert Huff]

Jorge Biquez writes:

  Any comments you have that could help me to solve this challenge?

Yes.
You do not have a technical problem.
You have a management problem.
Fix that, and the technical issues will be (comparatively)
trivial.


Robert Huff

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Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Jorge Biquez]

Hello.

Yes I know and we ill do our best to solve it... but if that does not 
work, then I still will try to solve it technically in some way if possible.


Jorge Biquez

At 10:42 p.m. 09/04/2012, Robert Huff wrote:


Jorge Biquez writes:

  Any comments you have that could help me to solve this challenge?

Yes.
You do not have a technical problem.
You have a management problem.
Fix that, and the technical issues will be (comparatively)
trivial.


Robert Huff


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Re: Kind OFF Topic. FreeBSD for Blocking URLS? Nanny?

[Da Rock]

On 04/10/12 13:46, Jorge Biquez wrote:

Hello.

Yes I know and we ill do our best to solve it... but if that does not 
work, then I still will try to solve it technically in some way if 
possible.


For the interim (and as a POC), setup squid and dans guardian and point 
the browsers to proxy using that machine. Prove your point and then 
explain that this can be done transparently if you had some control of 
the routers.


All that is necessary for transparent proxy is to reroute port 80 
traffic from the network to the squid server then.


HTH


Jorge Biquez

At 10:42 p.m. 09/04/2012, Robert Huff wrote:


Jorge Biquez writes:

  Any comments you have that could help me to solve this challenge?

Yes.
You do not have a technical problem.
You have a management problem.
Fix that, and the technical issues will be (comparatively)
trivial.


Robert Huff


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Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Barbara La Scala]

Many thanks to everyone who contacted me, either directly or through the list.  
I now have
plenty of places and ideas to check out to help get my stepfather online.  At 
the moment, 
I'm leaning towards getting him a Mac (since it has a real operating system 
under the
hood) and a suite of text/keyboard friendly apps.

Since I've starting looking into this I've come to realise how much having good 
eyesight is
taken for granted, what with context sensitive menus, touch screens and the 
(ab)use of 
Flash.  Be kind to your retinas and corneas.  They are more useful than you 
might realise.

Thanks again for all the help.
Barbara

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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Jerry]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:50:06 -0400
Robert Huff articulated:

 
 Polytropon writes:
 
   Speech recognition requires training. Both the user and the
   system have to learn from each other. But you have a learning
   curve everywhere, be it typing, talking, or reading from a
   Braille output.
 
   In the case of speech recognition, that's a curve many might
 be willing to travel if they had reason to believe it was effort
 wisely invested.
   There are a couple of ports that cleim to do speech
 recognition.  Does anyone have experience with them?

When it comes to speech recognition, the only two applications that
seem to work reliably at all levels are Siri on iPhone 4S and Dragon
NaturallySpeaking, neither of which are obviously available on
FreeBSD. I don't believe that there is even a *nix/BSD version of
Dragon NaturallySpeaking in production. In any case, I do have a
friend who is severely vision impaired that uses that software with
amazing results. She can definitely dictate a letter faster than I can
manually create one.

I did try two different ports two years ago and they were sadly lacking
in their ability to achieve any true speech recognition. They were
painfully slow to even get configured. I gave up within a few hours on
the project. It was only an experiment anyway.

I sincerely hope you can find a truly useful application to suit your
needs.

By the way, in the US anyway, there are many foundations that will give
you financial assistance or grants to purchase software that will make
your PC more readily available to you. I am not sure if that kind of
support is available in your locale.

-- 
Jerry ♔

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__

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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Da Rock]

On 03/27/12 20:41, Jerry wrote:

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:50:06 -0400
Robert Huff articulated:


Polytropon writes:


  Speech recognition requires training. Both the user and the
  system have to learn from each other. But you have a learning
  curve everywhere, be it typing, talking, or reading from a
  Braille output.

In the case of speech recognition, that's a curve many might
be willing to travel if they had reason to believe it was effort
wisely invested.
There are a couple of ports that cleim to do speech
recognition.  Does anyone have experience with them?

When it comes to speech recognition, the only two applications that
seem to work reliably at all levels are Siri on iPhone 4S and Dragon
NaturallySpeaking, neither of which are obviously available on
FreeBSD. I don't believe that there is even a *nix/BSD version of
Dragon NaturallySpeaking in production. In any case, I do have a
friend who is severely vision impaired that uses that software with
amazing results. She can definitely dictate a letter faster than I can
manually create one.
The biggest contender in ports is sphinx- libraries are used as a basis 
for siri and the google offering. This is apparently used by phone 
companies, etc. Each of which use teams of developers to get it working 
the way they want. Getting it to work on an individual basis...


Apparently the results will primarily vary based on the dictionaries 
that are supplied, so it does mean one may work better than the other.

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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Robert Huff]

Jerry writes:

  There are a couple of ports that claim to do speech
   recognition.  Does anyone have experience with them?
  
  I sincerely hope you can find a truly useful application to suit
  your needs.

In my case, it's want, not need.
(But that's the want of gee, there's this whole list of
things which might be easier using voice recognition.)


Robert Huff





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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Martin McCormick]

Polytropon writes:
 That's correct. However, unlike a Braille readout which
 gives tactile information (through the reader's hands),
 synthetic voice cannot easily accomodate to the reader's
 habits and reading speed. Scanning text is not possible
 as the generated voiced text is played in linear time,
 which means you cannot easily skip forward and backward,
 re-read a certain passage, and you basically do not come
 down to the letter level, you only have a word level.

You are absolutely right on all counts. I was speaking
from the standpoint of the amount of work and or extra expense
that one would need to go through to get the interface fully
operational. Nobody has yet figured out how to build a Braille
display that is affordable, let's say 100 US Dollars or less for
even one line of Braille much less a whole page or better yet a
graphical screen that could display shapes and possibly textures
that are not Braille characters. Prices of 5000 Dollars are not
uncommon and single-line displays sell for well over 1000
Dollars anywhere you go.

What is needed is a way to accomplish a tactile matrix
that doesn't require precision machining or hand assembly for
each pixel. That's why today's displays are so incredibly
expensive and delicate.

There are lots of neat ideas such as stimulators you
might ware on your fingers as you move your hand over a large
area, but making a tightly-packed matrix at almost microscopic
level is still a pains-taking task.

By the way, math done by any method other than Braille
is darn next to useless. Equations in Braille can be formatted
very much like they are in print and there is a whole Braille
system for reading and writing math. So, I am not disagreeing at
all with what you wrote here, just clarifying why I made the
statements I made.

 While this has benefits in unconcentrated reading (e. g.
 reading an article or literature, it can be problematic
 with scientific or technical text where a (healthy) reader
 would let his eyes jump within the text stream.

The thing I hate the most these days is the lost art of
the linear declarative sentence. If the output of a program is
some full-screen form in which the information one wants is in
check boxes, you have to listen to the whole !%#%00--- thing
just to find out whether or not it worked. There are usually one
or two things we really wanted to know and the rest is unchanged
but must be endured to get the one or two grains of wheat in all
that chaff.

Since it's full-screen stuff, it is hard to pipe to a
script so I guess the artists are happy and the rest of us are
just tapping our feet impatiently waiting for the water torture
to end.

Fortunately, unix operations are still relatively free
from the worst GUI parlor tricks, but I use safari on a Mac to
access some Windows-centric web sites related to work and they
make me want to straighten out a horse shoe without a forge I
get so mad at listening to the minutes of audio with the results
of what I did always at or near the last of the text and there
seems to be no way to stanch the deluge without loosing the gold
nuggets.

In conclusion, FreeBSD has been another wonderful
open-source platform as far as I can say. Many of the systems I
run it on here do not have sound cards and are either on virtual
boxes, in other buildings or towns and so a speech or Braille
console directly on the system isn't possible so I have always
used some other device to provide accessibility and never been
disappointed. After all, it's unix which means one can expect
certain behaviors regarding standard devices.

Martin
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[perryh]

Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote:

 When it comes to speech recognition, the only two applications
 that seem to work reliably at all levels are Siri on iPhone 4S
 and Dragon NaturallySpeaking, neither of which are obviously
 available on FreeBSD. I don't believe that there is even a
 *nix/BSD version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking in production.

The Windows version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking is, however,
reputed to work well on wine, which is in ports.  One of the D-NS
developers (or maybe it was a tech support person) was helping out
on the wine-users forum for a while; I don't recall having seen her
post there recently, but this _might_ be because D-NS is working so
well with recent wine versions that no one needs help with it.
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Da Rock]

On 03/28/12 15:28, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:

Jerryje...@seibercom.net  wrote:


When it comes to speech recognition, the only two applications
that seem to work reliably at all levels are Siri on iPhone 4S
and Dragon NaturallySpeaking, neither of which are obviously
available on FreeBSD. I don't believe that there is even a
*nix/BSD version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking in production.

The Windows version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking is, however,
reputed to work well on wine, which is in ports.  One of the D-NS
developers (or maybe it was a tech support person) was helping out
on the wine-users forum for a while; I don't recall having seen her
post there recently, but this _might_ be because D-NS is working so
well with recent wine versions that no one needs help with it.

That would be really useful. Keeping that one in the memory banks...
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Polytropon]

On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:21:04 -0500, Martin McCormick wrote:
   By the way, math done by any method other than Braille
 is darn next to useless. Equations in Braille can be formatted
 very much like they are in print and there is a whole Braille
 system for reading and writing math.

Interesting, I didn't know that. However, LaTeX allows
writing (and typesetting) math on a pure text basis
which may be interesting to authors who are unable to
access a GUI-driven formula editor. Of course there is
another learning courve here. But nothing does prohibit
a blind scientist to write his stuff himself, read it
himself; things as $\bar{x}=\frac{\sum_{i=1}^{n}({x_i})}{n}$
can be quite easily be used if you have learned few
relatively simple things: typing on the keyboard,
using a powerful editor, the LaTeX language, and
maybe Braille. This way, an author can concentrate
on content, while the tools step into the background
and let him just do his stuff.



 After all, it's unix which means one can expect
 certain behaviors regarding standard devices.

As long as the devices play nice... :-)


-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Arthur Chance]

On 03/25/12 23:33, Barbara La Scala wrote:

Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he wants my 
advice
about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for information 
on hardware
and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this list 
saying they
were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really appreciate it 
if that person
would get in touch with me.


This link might help. It's the RNIB page on using technology when blind 
or partially sighted. The link to the beginner's guides is where you 
should start.


http://www.rnib.org.uk/livingwithsightloss/computersphones/Pages/computers_mobile_phones.aspx

However, as Polytropon said in his mail, there are far too many web 
pages with no real accessibility for anyone with less than perfect 
faculties, in spite of the fact it's a legal requirement in many 
countries. A friend of mine is an accessibility consultant and has 
regular rants about this.

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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Beni Brinckman]

Op 26 maart 2012 09:42 heeft Arthur Chance free...@qeng-ho.org het
volgende geschreven:
 On 03/25/12 23:33, Barbara La Scala wrote:

 Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he
 wants my advice
 about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for
 information on hardware
 and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this list
 saying they
 were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really
 appreciate it if that person
 would get in touch with me.


 This link might help. It's the RNIB page on using technology when blind or
 partially sighted. The link to the beginner's guides is where you should
 start.

 http://www.rnib.org.uk/livingwithsightloss/computersphones/Pages/computers_mobile_phones.aspx

 However, as Polytropon said in his mail, there are far too many web pages
 with no real accessibility for anyone with less than perfect faculties, in
 spite of the fact it's a legal requirement in many countries. A friend of
 mine is an accessibility consultant and has regular rants about this.

Maybe this can help too :
http://www.brlspeak.net/ and its creator Aldo info at brlspeak.net
Beni
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Keith McKenzie]

On 25/03/12 23:33, Barbara La Scala wrote:
 Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he 
wants my advice
 about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for 
information on hardware
 and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this 
list saying they
 were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really 
appreciate it if that person

 would get in touch with me.

 Thanks
 Barbara

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I know this is the FreeBSD forum, but there is a Linux ready made live 
distro that might help. It is called Knoppix Adriane,  was conceived 
for the authors blind wife. It can be found at www.knoppix.net.


I hope I haven't upset anyone for talking Linux here.  :)

Keith

PS  Re sent as it seemed to get blocked before: have changed email 
address. Apologies if it gets duplicated.

--
Sent from Free Open Source Software (FOSS).

Debian GNU/Linux
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Da Rock]

On 03/26/12 19:32, Keith McKenzie wrote:

On 25/03/12 23:33, Barbara La Scala wrote:
 Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and 
he wants my advice
 about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for 
information on hardware
 and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this 
list saying they
 were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really 
appreciate it if that person

 would get in touch with me.

 Thanks
 Barbara

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I know this is the FreeBSD forum, but there is a Linux ready made live 
distro that might help. It is called Knoppix Adriane,  was conceived 
for the authors blind wife. It can be found at www.knoppix.net.


I hope I haven't upset anyone for talking Linux here.  :)
I'm going to have to dredge up my copy and check that out - it sounds 
very interesting primarily because the techniques could be easily 
adapted here :P

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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Keith McKenzie]

On 26/03/12 11:12, Da Rock wrote:

O
I'm going to have to dredge up my copy and check that out - it sounds
very interesting primarily because the techniques could be easily
adapted here :P


On version 6; not sure if it came earlier.

Keith
--
Sent from Free Open Source Software (FOSS).

Debian GNU/Linux
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Martin McCormick]

There may be several people on this list who are blind,
meaning no usable vision to see a screen. I definitely fit that
description so I will gladly try to answer questions which
breaks my usual practice here of asking beginner-level questions
even though I have been using FreeBSD for almost ten years.

The easiest and most economical interface for computer
users who are blind is spoken speach. I am not talking about
speech recognition where you speak to the computer and it does
things, but speech synthesis where the computer runs an
application to read what is on the screen back to the person
using the system.

One can learn to type and touch-typing was tought in
schools for the blind for scores of years before computers ever
even came on the scene. We pounded on typewriters and our
poor suffering typing teachers were the feedback mechanisms that
told us how we were doing. So, a person who is blind needs to
know how to type.

Almost every operating system has a screen reading
program or several that one can install that reads the screen
back to you. There is a good screen reader for the Macintosh
which is included on every single Mac that runs OSX10.X. I like
it and the Mac's do run a customized version of BSD unix. The
screen reader for the Mac is called voiceover and you can
activate it by Command-F5 and then Command-F5 again to turn it
off.

The only drawback to voiceover is that for those of us
who do a lot of tinkering and compiling of source code on unix
systems, the screen reader makes listening to the stream of
consciousness almost useless because it resets itself each time
new output is detected.

There is also a lot of really neat things going on in
Linux. We have Orca which is the GUI environment and some very
good software speech synthesizers for both the GUI and the
command line worlds. They tend to handle bursty output from
compilers and log tailings better than voiceover but you find
that both Mac and Linux screen readers shine in some things and
don't do so well in others so there is no clear winner.

Finally, there is the Windows world. Microsoft may be
actually trying to improve their narrator application to where it
is a serious screen reader, but up to now, there is one free
screen reader that some people like to use plus several
commercial applications that cost an arm and a leg and are
always one upgrade away from being snuffed out and causing their
owners much grief.

None of these screen readers are perfect, but most
computer users who are blind end up being reasonably happy with
one of them.

I personally like Linux and the Mac because there is no
additional charge to install the screen readers and they
generally won't let you down.

There are also Braille displays which some people use
but they are extremely costly.

I mentioned the speech recognition systems. Many of
those actually present problems for those who are blind because
you need to train them on your speech and the feedback is
graphical so a good old keyboard is still the best input device.

So as not to get totally off topic, I haven't heard of
any of the Linux screen readers being ported to FreeBSD. That
could be a problem for some people and not an issue at all for
others. Right now, I am typing on a Linux computer running a
software speech engine and I am editing this message on a
FreeBSD9.0 system via ssh and using vi on the actual message
file. It works great.

If that Raspberry Pie Linux system turns out to be able
to support one of the Linux screen readers, we're talking about
a talking terminal for less than 100 US Dollars. We'll just have
to see what happens.


Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK 
Systems Engineer
OSU Information Technology Department Telecommunications Services Group
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Julian H. Stacey]

Martin McCormick wrote:
   There may be several people on this list who are blind,
 meaning no usable vision to see a screen. I definitely fit that
 description so I will gladly try to answer questions which
...

Hi Martin, cc questions@

Might you be prepared to write a page for the FreeBSD handbook ?
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html

It could go under   V. Appendices ?

Having someone who is blind as author of such a page would make it
more authoritative  useful for other blind people I assume.

I guess you could start by correlate previous posting on this thread,
+ add your knowledge, keeping text short  linking to tools 
equipment manufacturers ? ( inc. a URL to the Knoppix blind version)

There's been a few people who have asked me over the years,  I've
never really known where to point them. 

PS A near blind person in Germany told me a decade or more back:
  - each country has a different Braille !? 
  - one line display systems in Germany are extremely expensive.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
 Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script,  indent with  .
 Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable.
Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix.  http://berklix.org/yahoo/
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Polytropon]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:21:08 -0500, Martin McCormick wrote:
   The easiest and most economical interface for computer
 users who are blind is spoken speach.

That's correct. However, unlike a Braille readout which
gives tactile information (through the reader's hands),
synthetic voice cannot easily accomodate to the reader's
habits and reading speed. Scanning text is not possible
as the generated voiced text is played in linear time,
which means you cannot easily skip forward and backward,
re-read a certain passage, and you basically do not come
down to the letter level, you only have a word level.
While this has benefits in unconcentrated reading (e. g.
reading an article or literature, it can be problematic
with scientific or technical text where a (healthy) reader
would let his eyes jump within the text stream.



   One can learn to type and touch-typing was tought in
 schools for the blind for scores of years before computers ever
 even came on the scene.

I also learned typewriting (mandatory!) in school, and
believe it or not, it comes handy every time I have to
deal with a computer. :-)



 We pounded on typewriters and our
 poor suffering typing teachers were the feedback mechanisms that
 told us how we were doing. So, a person who is blind needs to
 know how to type.

A good keyboard can help here. Keep in mind that a keyboard,
being a means of input, provides tactile feedback as output.
So without any visual confirmation you can detect when you
made a typing error, activating a motor program to correct
it on the fly.

At this point, I typically recommend using an IBM Model M
keyboard. But the Sun USB Type 7 is also good, as it provides
programmable keys for volume control, application interaction
and Braille readout control. (I use those keys primarily for
dealing with the window manager - no need to use the eyes!)



   None of these screen readers are perfect, but most
 computer users who are blind end up being reasonably happy with
 one of them.

Especially in combination with web browsers, they are prone
to fail. Where there's no text (as content) in a web page,
there's nothing to read to the user. The use of the HTML
tags alt= and longdesc= is a long forgotten art, and when
Flash enters the scene to replace few lines of HTML (as
for links or simple text), there's no easy way to determine
_what_ currently is on the screen.



   There are also Braille displays which some people use
 but they are extremely costly.

Sadly, that is correct. In my opinion this is because they
are a niche market. When purchasing one, you have to pay
attention to if it can capture normal text screen content.
How is it attached to the computer? Does it require proprietary
drivers? How long can it be used before an OS revision breaks
the drivers?

Those Braille readouts can be placed infront of the keyboard,
the primary means of input. Reading and writing isn't far
away from each other (finger travelling distance).

Classic Braille readouts didn't seem to require any driver.
I've seen such devices in the past. A slider on the side
simply defined the row of text which was then displayed on
the readout - one out of 25. I think it was plugged into
the VGA chain (PC - readout - screen), but I'm not that
familiar with this technology; I've seen it on a DOS PC.
However, as FreeBSD's default screen mode is 80x25 text
mode, it should be possible to use such a device. Maybe
it's possible to get a used one for cheap...



   I mentioned the speech recognition systems. Many of
 those actually present problems for those who are blind because
 you need to train them on your speech and the feedback is
 graphical so a good old keyboard is still the best input device.

Speech recognition requires training. Both the user and the
system have to learn from each other. But you have a learning
curve everywhere, be it typing, talking, or reading from a
Braille output.




-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Robert Huff]

Polytropon writes:

  Speech recognition requires training. Both the user and the
  system have to learn from each other. But you have a learning
  curve everywhere, be it typing, talking, or reading from a
  Braille output.

In the case of speech recognition, that's a curve many might be
willing to travel if they had reason to believe it was effort wisely
invested.
There are a couple of ports that cleim to do speech
recognition.  Does anyone have experience with them?


Robert Huff

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Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Barbara La Scala]

Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he wants my 
advice
about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for information 
on hardware
and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this list 
saying they 
were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really appreciate it 
if that person
would get in touch with me.

Thanks
Barbara

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Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind

[Polytropon]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:33:05 +1100, Barbara La Scala wrote:
 Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he wants 
 my advice
 about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for 
 information on hardware
 and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this list 
 saying they 
 were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really appreciate 
 it if that person
 would get in touch with me.

The old-fashioned way to enable blind persons to use a computer
for getting online involves a way to read text. This can be done
basically in two ways:

a) The user has a Braille readout right infront of his keyboard.
   This is usually a one or two line combination of 40 or 80
   characters width, with electromagnetic Braille mountain
   matrices (6 or 8 dot code). This line can display one line
   of screen text. Which line (out of the 25 on the screen)
   can be selected by a slider on the side.
  
+--+
| Suche Bilder Videos Maps News|
|  |
| Google   |
|   Deutschland| ---selection---+
|  | |
| __   | |
| Search   Good luck!  | |
|  | |
|  | |
| H)elp O)ptions P)rint G)o| |
+--+ |
 |
__ .      ...|
.. __ ...    |
.. __ ...    |
.. _...__    |
.. __.___  .     |
.. __._.._.__ ... __..   |
 |
 |
:::###:  ---output--+
  (Deutschland)

b) The user uses a similar selection mechanism as with the Braille
   readout, but a synthetic voice will read the text. Speed and
   volume can be controlled. (This is also available as a pure
   software solution!)

Most blind persons (I've met) seem to be fine with variant a) as
it fits their reading habits, their speed, their experience.
The input method of choice is the keyboard, as it (obviously)
does not need any visual confirmation. The travelling distance
for the fingers from typing to reading (and back) is acceptable.

For purchasing the hardware, I would suggest to consult the
web for some search, and then maybe attend a local specialized
store to obtain the devices. They tend to be a bit expensive.
Make sure to get hardware specs: How is it connected? Does it
require proprietary drivers? Does it work with normal text
screens? Niche market... :-(

Now for the software. In order to get the text to the Braille
readout, you need software that runs in text mode. On FreeBSD,
this is the default mode (unless you install GUI tools). Getting
online is very easy (see The FreeBSD Handbook), and everything
you now need is a web browser.

Recommendations: links, lynx, w3m.

For participating in email, I may recommend alpine (pine), but
there are many other powerful text mode mail clients that one
could try and find the most comfortable one.

Other services, such as IRC, News, or messenger services
can also be used. Just to throw some program names into the
wild: irc, BitchX, tin, elm, centericq. The ports collection
offers a wide choice of programs for FreeBSD.

Configure the OS to accomodate to the needs of the Internet
connection (DHCP, PPPoE, dial-up, WLAN - whatever is present).
A confortable dialog shell is also useful to quickly communicate
with the computer and launch the programs that the user wants
to use. Maybe a preconfigured environment (with selections
such as mail, web, news, chat as command words) is
a good idea.

One last thing:

Regarding the modern web, don't assume you'll find many
pages that are accessible by blind persons. Just try some
average web pages in one of the text mode web browsers
mentioned. They only work well when the person who has
made the web page did pay attention to make it accessible
by handicapped users. This is something that is mostly
forgotten today, and the tendency with rich web applications
is that unrestricted access to _content_ will be less and
less common. Artificial barriers are raised by teh Interwebs
progammerz abusing tools (e. g. Flash as a replacement
for few lines of HTML). The tendency is that it's just
getting worse and worse, sadly...

I hope I could give you some inspiration on where to start

OFF Topic. FreeBSD SAP Oracle Financials.

[Jorge Biquez]

Hello all.

I am sorry if this is OFF Topic. I am looking for help from more 
experienced people in these areas.


I am looking for a job and one company is looking for people to 
create a test team (part of the quality assurance team). Their 
projects is based on SAP and Oracle Financials systems.  I used SAP 
and Oracle Financials some years ago and I do not have a chance to 
create a lab for me to study them because of the nature of those products.


I thought that could help me a lot to try to emulate a lab installing 
Oracle as a database under my Freebsd personal server . That way 
maybe I can at least recreate the database schema (if I get it) and 
try to understand how it works and maybe , as part of the study , try 
to run reports and populate the database in some way (maybe PHP or Ruby?).


Questions.

- IS there any version of Oracle that I could install under FreeBSD 
(actually on 7.3)?


- Since I am in the process of learning to be more prepared for new 
projects as an Independent IT consultant, I would like to be able to 
learn tools that help me in the projects/job search. So IN this case, 
assuming that I can recreate someway with Oracle or MySQl or 
Postgresql the tables I need to study and assuming also previous 
experience on programming


How would you see to use Ruby for a crash course on accessing and web 
publishing the information on those tables? (actually I continue the 
process of learning Python but I am not ready , yet, for the web 
part). If You think Ruby could be faster , any resources you point me 
to are really appreciated.


- Finally . If you know of places of where I can get information, 
free if possible, about the actual version of Oracle Financials and 
SAP. Technical manual and the operational , administrative ones. I 
would love to hear where. I have tried of course the companies for 
SAP and Oracle financials but at least from here I can not access 
anything if I am not a consultant certified by them. Any suggestions?


I know this could sound as a waste of time project (trying to emulate 
the operation of SAP and Oracle in some part) but for sure I can not 
have access to a real application and besides with the Ruby learning 
I guess I could be in better position for future projects.


As always thanks in advance for your help and comments.

Jorge Biquez

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OFF Topic. FreeBSD and Android Development

[Jorge Biquez]

Hello all.

First of all a great year to all. My best wishes.

I was wondering if you can give your advice and comments about the following.

I am interested in learning about Android Development. I am searching 
information on the web, documentation about how to start learning 
about Android Development. Any links or tips to look at are more than welcomed.


Talking with a friend he told me he is learning using some tools he 
found but he is running them under Ubuntu.


If any of you is developing for Android using Freebsd as your 
platform. Can you tell me about your experience? Tips and advice on 
what to use to start are welcome.


I am not sure if this kind of off topic could be of interested to the 
list so please feel free to answer me directly .


Thanks in advance.

Jorge Biquez

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Re: OFF Topic. FreeBSD and Android Development

[Chad Perrin]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 05:46:13PM -0600, Jorge Biquez wrote:
 
 I am interested in learning about Android Development. I am
 searching information on the web, documentation about how to start
 learning about Android Development. Any links or tips to look at are
 more than welcomed.
 
 Talking with a friend he told me he is learning using some tools he
 found but he is running them under Ubuntu.

What tools are these?  If you provide specifics, we might be able to
provide information on whether the tools he uses work on FreeBSD as well.


 
 If any of you is developing for Android using Freebsd as your
 platform. Can you tell me about your experience? Tips and advice on
 what to use to start are welcome.

I am not (yet) developing for Android on FreeBSD, but I plan to give it a
try in the very near future.  My first steps in that direction will
probably involve writing code in Ruby, to be packaged and distributed to
be used with the Scripting Layer For Android.  SL4A uses JRuby, which
means that Ruby applications for Android that use SL4A should have access
to the standard Java libraries on Android as well (in theory: I have not
tested this extensively yet).

I am considering graduating to Java/Dalvik development for Android at
some point, but I am not sure whether that would be necessary (or even
advantageous) for my purposes, at this point.  I am interested in any
information your query might draw forth here, though, so I'll be watching
this thread.


 
 I am not sure if this kind of off topic could be of interested to
 the list so please feel free to answer me directly .

I think this is, in fact, on-topic for this list.  It is a question
particular to FreeBSD, which is the point of the freebsd-questions
mailing list, as I understand it.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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Re: OFF Topic. FreeBSD and Android Development

[Mehmet Erol Sanliturk]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 05:46:13PM -0600, Jorge Biquez wrote:
 
  I am interested in learning about Android Development. I am
  searching information on the web, documentation about how to start
  learning about Android Development. Any links or tips to look at are
  more than welcomed.
 
  Talking with a friend he told me he is learning using some tools he
  found but he is running them under Ubuntu.

 What tools are these?  If you provide specifics, we might be able to
 provide information on whether the tools he uses work on FreeBSD as well.


 
  If any of you is developing for Android using Freebsd as your
  platform. Can you tell me about your experience? Tips and advice on
  what to use to start are welcome.

 I am not (yet) developing for Android on FreeBSD, but I plan to give it a
 try in the very near future.  My first steps in that direction will
 probably involve writing code in Ruby, to be packaged and distributed to
 be used with the Scripting Layer For Android.  SL4A uses JRuby, which
 means that Ruby applications for Android that use SL4A should have access
 to the standard Java libraries on Android as well (in theory: I have not
 tested this extensively yet).

 I am considering graduating to Java/Dalvik development for Android at
 some point, but I am not sure whether that would be necessary (or even
 advantageous) for my purposes, at this point.  I am interested in any
 information your query might draw forth here, though, so I'll be watching
 this thread.


 
  I am not sure if this kind of off topic could be of interested to
  the list so please feel free to answer me directly .

 I think this is, in fact, on-topic for this list.  It is a question
 particular to FreeBSD, which is the point of the freebsd-questions
 mailing list, as I understand it.

 --
 Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]



The following pages may be useful if Free Pascal is used as development
environment :

http://wiki.freepascal.org/FPC_JVM_Android_Development
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Android_Interface
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Android_Interface/Using_the_Android_SDK%2C_Emulator_and_Phones
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Android_Interface/OpenGL_ES_GUI
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Android_Programming
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Android_Interface/Native_Android_GUI
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Custom_Drawn_Interface/Android


where Free Pascal and Lazarus are available in FreeBSD ports .

Thank you very much .

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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somewhat Off topic, Sendmail Issue

[Dean E. Weimer]

I know this is a Sendmail issue, but I haven't been able to track down 
any information online, or found any Sendmail user email lists yet.  And 
since I am running it on a FreeBSD server, I thought I would try here 
and see if anyone knows the answer to my problem.


I have enabled SSL on SMTP to enable the delivery and reception of TLS 
encrypted emails, the server is going to be used as a relay between a MS 
Exchange server and an external Spam filtering service that has an 
encrypted email sending application that strips attachments and creates 
a password protected HTTPS link based on keywords in the subject.


Everything works as expected, but when I test the server against 
required PCI scans, it accepts weak encryption ciphers, I need to limit 
these ciphers.  After a lot of extensive searching I have found 
references to the fact that it is possible to configure Sendmail to do 
this, but I can't find any documentation on how to do it.


The server is running FreeBSD 8.2 which is patched up to p4, and 
Sendmail was configured with the following options, this test setup is 
also being used to test secure IMAP with authentication, so there are 
settings in here as well for Cyrus IMAP.


/etc/make.conf:
# Use OpenSSL from ports instead of base
WITH_OPENSSL_PORT=yes
# Enable SMTP Authentication
SENDMAIL_CFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include/sasl -DSASL
SENDMAIL_LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib
SENDMAIL_LDADD=-lsasl2
# Adding to enable alternate port (smtps) for sendmail...
SENDMAIL_CFLAGS+= -D_FFR_SMTP_SSL

Steps done after editing /etc/make.conf:
cd /usr/src/lib/libsmutil
make cleandir  make obj  make
cd /usr/src/lib/libsm
make cleandir  make obj  make
cd /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail
make cleandir  make obj  make  make install

/etc/rc.conf:
# Enable Sendmail
saslauthd_enable=YES
saslauthd_flags=-a sasldb
cyrus_imapd_enable=YES
sendmail_enable=YES

/etc/mail/hostname.mc:
define(`confLOCAL_MAILER',`cyrusv2')
define(`CYRUS_MAILER_PATH',`/usr/local/cyrus/bin/deliver')
MAILER(`cyrusv2')
dnl set SASL options
TRUST_AUTH_MECH(`GSSAPI DIGEST-MD5 CRAM-MD5 LOGIN')
define(`confAUTH_MECHANISMS', `GSSAPI DIGEST-MD5 CRAM-MD5 LOGIN')
dnl Cert Options
define(`confCACERT_PATH', `/usr/local/etc/ssl/smtp')dnl
define(`confCACERT', `/usr/local/etc/ssl/smtp/gd_bundle.crt')dnl
define(`confSERVER_CERT', `/usr/local/etc/ssl/smtp/server.crt')dnl
define(`confSERVER_KEY', `/usr/local/etc/ssl/smtp/server.key')dnl
dnl DAEMON_OPTIONS
dnl DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp, Name=MTA')
DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtps, Name=TLSMTA, M=s')


I know that setting this option in Apache does the trick for HTTPS, I 
just need to figure out how to tell Sendmail to do the same.
SSLCipherSuite 
ALL:!aNULL:!eNULL:!LOW:!EXP:!ADH:RC4+RSA:+HIGH:+MEDIUM:!SSLv2


If anyone has any idea how to do this, or any idea on what keywords to 
search on that might find me the directions it would be a great help.


--

Thanks,
 Dean E. Weimer
 dwei...@dweimer.net
 http://www.dweimer.net/
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Re: somewhat Off topic, Sendmail Issue

[Daniel Feenberg]

On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, Dean E. Weimer wrote:

I know this is a Sendmail issue, but I haven't been able to track down any 
information online, or found any Sendmail user email lists yet.  And since I 
am running it on a FreeBSD server, I thought I would try here and see if 
anyone knows the answer to my problem.


I have enabled SSL on SMTP to enable the delivery and reception of TLS 
encrypted emails, the server is going to be used as a relay between a MS 
Exchange server and an external Spam filtering service that has an encrypted 
email sending application that strips attachments and creates a password 
protected HTTPS link based on keywords in the subject.


Everything works as expected, but when I test the server against required PCI 
scans, it accepts weak encryption ciphers, I need to limit these ciphers. 
After a lot of extensive searching I have found references to the fact that 
it is possible to configure Sendmail to do this, but I can't find any 
documentation on how to do it.




There is an active Usenet group at comp.mail.sendmail.

Does the ENCR parameter documented at

  http://www.sendmail.org/m4/starttls.html

do you any good? It doesn't restrict the method, only the number of bits 
in the key.


Daniel Feenberg
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Re: somewhat Off topic, Sendmail Issue

[Chuck Swiger]

Hi--

On Oct 12, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Dean E. Weimer wrote:
 I know that setting this option in Apache does the trick for HTTPS, I just 
 need to figure out how to tell Sendmail to do the same.
 SSLCipherSuite ALL:!aNULL:!eNULL:!LOW:!EXP:!ADH:RC4+RSA:+HIGH:+MEDIUM:!SSLv2
 
 If anyone has any idea how to do this, or any idea on what keywords to search 
 on that might find me the directions it would be a great help.

If you can't find a way of specifying the allowed SSL ciphers via sendmail 
config (as someone mentioned, you can test ${cipher_bits} against ENCR:bits, 
but that doesn't disable anonymous ciphers like ADH entirely), you can build a 
modern flavor of OpenSSL to /usr/local with the ciphers you don't like 
disabled, and rebuild sendmail against this OpenSSL.

I believe that the security/openssl already does most of this for you, and 
would be easy to tweak a bit more if that's needed.

Regards,
-- 
-Chuck

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Re: somewhat Off topic, Sendmail Issue

[Dean E. Weimer]

On 12.10.2011 11:30, Daniel Feenberg wrote:


There is an active Usenet group at comp.mail.sendmail.

Does the ENCR parameter documented at

http://www.sendmail.org/m4/starttls.html

do you any good? It doesn't restrict the method, only the number of 
bits

in the key.

Daniel Feenberg


Well after searching the comp.mail.sendmail list through Google groups, 
I have come up wiht the following changes.


I changed the orignal /etc/make.conf:
from this:
SENDMAIL_CFLAGS+= -D_FFR_SMTP_SSL
to:
SENDMAIL_CFLAGS+= -D_FFR_SMTP_SSL -D_FFR_TLS_1

redid the compile steps:

Added this to the end of /etc/mail/hostname.mc:
LOCAL_CONFIG
O 
CipherList=ALL:!aNULL:!eNULL:!LOW:!EXP:!ADH:RC4+RSA:+HIGH:+MEDIUM:!SSLv2


under /etc/mail
executed the make, make install steps

After restarting, an attempt to do:
/usr/local/bin/openssl s_client -starttls smtp -cipher EXP-RC4-MD5 
-connect localhost:25


Failed, this successfully connected before these changes.  Scans are 
running now, I will let you all know if it was successful.


--

Thanks,
 Dean E. Weimer
 dwei...@dweimer.net
 http://www.dweimer.net/

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Re: somewhat Off topic, Sendmail Issue

[Matthew Seaman]

On 12/10/2011 20:36, Dean E. Weimer wrote:
 Well after searching the comp.mail.sendmail list through Google groups,
 I have come up wiht the following changes.
 
 I changed the orignal /etc/make.conf:
 from this:
 SENDMAIL_CFLAGS+= -D_FFR_SMTP_SSL
 to:
 SENDMAIL_CFLAGS+= -D_FFR_SMTP_SSL -D_FFR_TLS_1
 
 redid the compile steps:
 
 Added this to the end of /etc/mail/hostname.mc:
 LOCAL_CONFIG
 O CipherList=ALL:!aNULL:!eNULL:!LOW:!EXP:!ADH:RC4+RSA:+HIGH:+MEDIUM:!SSLv2
 
 under /etc/mail
 executed the make, make install steps
 
 After restarting, an attempt to do:
 /usr/local/bin/openssl s_client -starttls smtp -cipher EXP-RC4-MD5
 -connect localhost:25
 
 Failed, this successfully connected before these changes.  Scans are
 running now, I will let you all know if it was successful.

_FFR_TLS_1 is actually already defined in the default sendmail on
FreeBSD.  See /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/Makefile around line 63.
It's also enabled in the ports version of sendmail, so long as you
select the WITH_TLS option.  I just added this setting to my sendmail
config and it seems to work using the ports sendmail without having to
recompile anything.

It could certainly do with being mentioned in the documentation more
prominently.  There's not a hint of the CipherList option in
/usr/share/sendmail/cf/README

_FFR_SMTP_SSL on the other hand, doesn't appear anywhere under /usr/src
-- think that must be a fossil remnant from some older version of sendmail.

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
  Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk   Kent, CT11 9PW



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Re: somewhat Off topic, Sendmail Issue

[Dean E. Weimer]

On 12.10.2011 15:16, Matthew Seaman wrote:


_FFR_TLS_1 is actually already defined in the default sendmail on
FreeBSD. See /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/Makefile around line 63.
It's also enabled in the ports version of sendmail, so long as you
select the WITH_TLS option. I just added this setting to my sendmail
config and it seems to work using the ports sendmail without having 
to

recompile anything.

It could certainly do with being mentioned in the documentation more
prominently. There's not a hint of the CipherList option in
/usr/share/sendmail/cf/README

_FFR_SMTP_SSL on the other hand, doesn't appear anywhere under 
/usr/src

-- think that must be a fossil remnant from some older version of
sendmail.

Cheers,

Matthew

-- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP:
http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID:
matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW


Interesting info, I will take a look at that Makefile and see what I 
find, I found those options to set originally on a web page, can't quite 
remember where, I pieced info from a few different locations to get 
everything working as I wanted.  I do know a lot of it was originally 
done for an older version of FreeBSD, so perhaps it was an FFR option at 
that time it was written.  One thing I have figured out in this process 
is that Sendmail FFR compiled options are basically undocumented outside 
of the source file comments.  Perhaps it was my inclusion of an old 
setting, that caused the ciphers to open up more to start with.  It did 
pass the tests as is, I will look more into this though.  And see if I 
can't slim down the overall steps to get the server up and running 
before it goes live on a production server.


--

Thanks,
 Dean E. Weimer
 dwei...@dweimer.net
 http://www.dweimer.net/
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Kind of OFF Topic. Advise pls.

[Jorge Biquez]

Hello All.

These could sound off topic, I am sorry in advance.

I am upgrading an old machine from 7.3 to the latest 8.x release branch.

I want to use that machine for

1) catalago/shopping cart solution only, nothing complicated not many 
users , something simple, personal project to learn and try to sell 
products. Nothing big.
2) I also want to have a couple of sites running a CMS software. The 
same, not big one, not millions of users expected, some close to a 
few clients and my relation with them.
3) To have a customer relationship, tickets, help center etc. Nothing 
big. My company is small now... just me



Based onyour experiecne, what ar the best options to chosse that will 
run the best on Freebsd (yea I now lot of external factors, security 
etc). Maybe if you tell me what are you using it is enough . I have 
read aboiut the difrrence and I like all.


From the following:

Content Management
Drupal
Geeklog
Joomla 1.5
Joomla
Mambo
PHP-Nuke
phpWCMS
phpWebSite
Siteframe
TYPO3
Xoops
Zikula

E-Commerce
CubeCart
OS Commerce
Zen Cart

Customer Relationship
Crafty Syntax Live Help
Help Center Live
osTicket
PerlDesk
PHP Support Tickets
Support Logic Helpdesk
Support Services Manage

Thanks in advance

Jorge Biquez

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Re: Kind of OFF Topic. Advise pls.

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

 Content Management
                Joomla 1.5
Joomla 1.6
and/or
Wordpress depending on your needs

 E-Commerce
PrestaShop

Not sure about CRM as I do not use it but I am sure others will have a clue.

Warm regards,

Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: Kind of OFF Topic. Advise pls.

[Gour]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:03:01 -0600
Jorge Biquez jbiq...@intranet.com.mx wrote:


 1) catalago/shopping cart solution only, nothing complicated not many 
 users , something simple, personal project to learn and try to sell 
 products. Nothing big.
 2) I also want to have a couple of sites running a CMS software. The 
 same, not big one, not millions of users expected, some close to a 
 few clients and my relation with them.
 3) To have a customer relationship, tickets, help center etc. Nothing 
 big. My company is small now... just me

I'm in the same boat. :-)

At the moment I use Concrete5 (http://www.concrete5.org/) and you have
ecommerce which nicely integrates with it
(http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/addons/ecommerce/)

but it costs $125.

Concrete is very nice to use CMS.

However, I also strongly consider to switch to SilverStripe
(http://www.silverstripe.org/) which is released under BSD license. ;)

There is also ecommerce module available
(http://www.silverstripe.org/ecommerce-module/) but it is free as well
as all other extension modules.


Since I have similar needs and sell only 'services', I prefer to have
simple  easy to use CMS and integrated ecommerce module.

Hope it helps.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
“In the material world, conceptions of good and bad are
all mental speculations…” (Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu)

http://atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: CDBF17CA




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Re: Kind of OFF Topic. Advise pls.

[Roland Smith]

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:03:01AM -0600, Jorge Biquez wrote:
 Hello All.
 
 These could sound off topic, I am sorry in advance.
 
 I am upgrading an old machine from 7.3 to the latest 8.x release branch.

Have you looked at what is available in the /usr/ports tree?

 I want to use that machine for
snip
 Content Management
*  Drupal 
*  Geeklog 
*  Joomla 1.5
*  Joomla
*  Mambo
   PHP-Nuke
   phpWCMS
   phpWebSite
*  Siteframe
*  TYPO3
*  Xoops
   Zikula

The ones above that I marked with a * are available in the FreeBSD ports
system and should work. I've also tried Plone and Mediawiki.

 E-Commerce
   CubeCart
*  OS Commerce
   Zen Cart

Only OS Commerce is in ports, but there is alse drupal5-ubercart
[http://drupal.org/project/ubercart] and Opencart (PHP based)
[http://www.opencart.com/]. Maybe one of those will work for you?
 
 Customer Relationship
   Crafty Syntax Live Help
   Help Center Live
   osTicket
   PerlDesk
   PHP Support Tickets
   Support Logic Helpdesk
   Support Services Manage

A quick look doesn't show any of these applications in the ports tree. But
looking for ticket gives;

locate '*ports/*ticket*/Makefile'
/usr/ports/www/mod_ticket/Makefile
/usr/ports/www/trac-advancedticketworkflow/Makefile
/usr/ports/www/trac-mastertickets/Makefile
/usr/ports/www/trac-pendingticket/Makefile
/usr/ports/www/trac-privatetickets/Makefile
/usr/ports/www/trac-simpleticket/Makefile
/usr/ports/www/trac-ticketdelete/Makefile
/usr/ports/www/trac-ticketimport/Makefile


Roland
-- 
R.F.Smith   http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
[plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated]
pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914  B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725)


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Re: Invitation (waaaaay off-topic)

[Simon Tibble]

On 15/02/11 19:09, Chad Perrin wrote:
 Your attempt to convince people that the way you see the path is the One
 True Path is distracting people from walking it, which if anything should
 be regarded as pushing people off the path to argue with them about
 whether the color of the dust on the path is brown or beige.
 

Chad, I thank you for teaching me humility.  I owe you.

end_of_thread /

-- 
Simon Tibble
si...@tibble.net
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Re: Invitation (waaaaay off-topic)

[Chad Perrin]

.  Is that right?  (assuming
 your from the states)

That's *a* correct usage, sure.


 
  # NOTES:
  [0] http://copyfree.org

 Sorry dude, this is based on an inherently flawed Law system.  Try to
 always remember that a law is just what one guy says another can or
 cannot do.

What are you going on about?  Did you even *understand* the text on that
page?  If English is not your native language, I'd be happy to help you
grasp the meaning of the terms used there (off-list; this is already
getting off-topic enough).  You don't have to agree with what's on the
page (I only offered the URI as context), but it would be nice if your
disagreement actually had something to do with reality.


 
  [1] http://www.opensource.org

 Top notch link dude.  Awesome.  Thanks!  I am definitely reading this
 one.  I'm ashamed to say I've read most of the open source docs, but
 not this one.

I find it odd that you think this is great but reject the preceding link
on the grounds that the page's contents aer somehow based on an
inherently flawed 'Law' system.  I think you must not actually
understand the content of one or the other of the two sites.


 
  [2] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Imagine_(song)

 If we're referencing popular culture, I call on Bill Hicks to do my
 bidding:

I was making a small joke.  Don't take everything so seriously; it'll
lead to heartburn and, perhaps, heart attacks.

Bill Hicks was pretty awesome, though.


 
 Sorry to any and all for the way offtopicness.

My point is to try to lead you (by the nose if need be) back to the land
of being on-topic -- because the efforts of people like those involved in
the FreeBSD project are an important part of making the world a better
place.  Better software, especially under a copyfree license like the
FreeBSD preferred variant of the BSD License, helps make the world a
better place.  Distracting people from supporting the development of that
software through contributing technical expertise to other users,
developing software for it, working on improving its documentation,
encouraging others to use it where it will do the most good, and myriad
other approaches, by dragging people into off-topic attempts to shut you
up is counterproductive if you want to make the world a better place.

Consider this: we don't all have to agree with you to contribute to
improving the state of the world.  If we're contributing, in part through
the agency of this mailing list, you should let us do so without
distracting us in a futile attempt to get people to agree with you in the
most contentious, annoying way you can do so (spamming).  After all,
there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
Your attempt to convince people that the way you see the path is the One
True Path is distracting people from walking it, which if anything should
be regarded as pushing people off the path to argue with them about
whether the color of the dust on the path is brown or beige.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


pgp1cfx51Mo0G.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Invitation (waaaaay off-topic)

[Simon Tibble]

On 14/02/11 23:42, Chad Perrin wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 09:47:11PM +, Simon Tibble wrote:
 On 14/02/11 21:12, David Kelly wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 08:54:59PM +, Simon Tibble wrote:

 Now, see, I can't help thinking that if we all just abandoned money
 then the motivation for people to do this sort of thing would then
 disappear - would it not?

 Without money, how would we keep score to know who is winning?

 By measuring ones contribution.  This can be quantified by creating a
 system whereby one's output is measured.  It is not a credit system,
 rather a combination of reputation (feedback of others) and how much
 produce or time you effect.  Try to think ebay without the money, and
 instead of leaving feedback after every transaction you only leave the
 feedback just once (how do you feel about the other person? good/bad).
 
 Broken.  Won't work.  It's too bureaucratic for too little (immediate)
 return to catch on, and its bureaucracy would guarantee long-term
 corruption.

This sort of idea will take years to catch on and will be a gradual
process.  In fact, it has already started in the (primitive) form of
free open-source software.

As for the corruption, at least in a organised contribution based system
all data will be available for all to see, unlike the corruption we have
today.  Personal preference: if I can have check-able corruption or
hidden corruption - I'd choose check-able every time.  In fact, I think
you'd find people would come to the forefront by actually boasting they
are the most sound people with solid principles as a result of it being
open for audit by anyone at anytime.  And because it relies on the
opinion of others it would be a better framework to build on (see eBay's
feedback system as an introduction to a the value of mass-opinion).

 We'll probably evolve semi-naturally to a reputation based economy as
 advancing technology eliminates a lot of basic-needs scarcity, but that's
 just speculation.  In the meantime, money is really nothing but a
 scalable way to lubricate the process of trade.  The more you centralize
 the management of money (or its replacement), the less efficiently it
 works -- and trying to quantify contribution through some uniform
 system as you suggest would require absurd levels of centralization.
Yes, it would be absurd to introduce it over night, but not more absurb
than the proposed Bankor currency headed our way.  It's probably just
about the same amount of admin, only with a website it would eliminate
the need for turning trees into notes/paper.

Also, the people who control the current money efforts conduct their
affairs behind closed doors and avoid scrutiny.  In an open system
people will be able to not only see the workings (the maths behind it)
and they will also be able to vote on it and change it (mass opinion
outweighs the individual).

 If you really want to do away with money, the best way to do it is to
 advance the state of the art of automation technology.  You can do this
 by contributing expertise, time, and money (in decreasing order of
 importance) to copyfree [0] and open source [1] software development
 projects such as FreeBSD.  Trying to distract the people contributing to
 such projects with pie-in-the-sky manifestations of song lyrics from the
 early '70s [2] is actually counterproductive to that aim.
Whilst I agree with you on most of this, I want to point out that the
greatest portion of the available workforce are in front of Facebook
drooling over Justin Beiber.  The sooner the masses are awoken to the
truth and shown that a different way of living is even possible, only
then will we move in the most positive direction at the fastest speed
possible.  Hence, some think I spam simply because I am part of many
who are attempting to raise awareness of this issue.

There really is nothing more important that this non-utopian alternative
life choice.

 But don't mind me.  I'm a crazy man with random mumbles.
 That's good advice.  I should follow it.
I believe American's use the word kook.  Is that right?  (assuming
your from the states)

 # NOTES:
 [0] http://copyfree.org
Sorry dude, this is based on an inherently flawed Law system.  Try to
always remember that a law is just what one guy says another can or
cannot do.

 [1] http://www.opensource.org
Top notch link dude.  Awesome.  Thanks!  I am definitely reading this
one.  I'm ashamed to say I've read most of the open source docs, but not
this one.

 [2] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Imagine_(song)
If we're referencing popular culture, I call on Bill Hicks to do my bidding:

The world is like a ride in an amusement park. And when you choose to
go on it, you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are.
And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and
chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun,
for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they
begin to 

Re: Kind of off topic.

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:21:06 -0600, Jorge Biquez jbiq...@intranet.com.mx 
wrote:
 Hello all.

 A friend is asking me to help him to solve some problem he has in his
 servers. To some I would be able to connect using ssh, with other just
 it i snot possible. I remember that on the windows world there was a
 commercial software PCANywhere. He can have it but I am not sure if I
 would be able to connect to that from my Freebsd machine (of course
 not by ssh).

 What are you using for connecting to graphical interfaces of different
 OS's from FreeBSD?

 I tested some years ago a VNC software but did not work fine with MAC
 OSX (recently released by then).

 I know big security factors are involved for sure.
 Any suggestion on what to use, not to expensive or free?

If the remote hosts are running FreeBSD, you can do almost *everything*
through SSH.  For example most of my FreeBSD-related testing work
happens through SSH connections to virtual machines these days.

If you really need to run a GUI application though there are a few
options:

  - The most basic is to connect to the remote machine in *some* way,
set the DISPLAY environment variable to point to a local X server
that may accept incoming connections and fire up your GUI program.

  - You can SSH into the remote machine and use the -X or -Y options to
set up 'X forwarding' back to the machine where the SSH connection
has originated from.

  - You can use programs like the NX tools http://www.nomachine.com/
to set up a 'remotely accessible X desktop' on the target machine
and then use nxclient to connect to it from anywhere.

The fastest and simplest method is still a plain good old SSH connection
though.  It requires minimal setup (an sshd daemon on the remote side),
it is accessible from anywhere in the world, it's secure against random
eavesdroppers, it's fast to connect to, it's pretty light-weight on both
the client and server systems, and you can do _everything_ on the remote
host [even full system upgrades from source].

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Re: Kind of off topic.

[Jorge Biquez]

At 03:08 a.m. 14/12/2010, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:21:06 -0600, Jorge Biquez 
jbiq...@intranet.com.mx wrote:

 Hello all.

 A friend is asking me to help him to solve some problem he has in his
 servers. To some I would be able to connect using ssh, with other just
 it i snot possible. I remember that on the windows world there was a
 commercial software PCANywhere. He can have it but I am not sure if I
 would be able to connect to that from my Freebsd machine (of course
 not by ssh).

 What are you using for connecting to graphical interfaces of different
 OS's from FreeBSD?

 I tested some years ago a VNC software but did not work fine with MAC
 OSX (recently released by then).

 I know big security factors are involved for sure.
 Any suggestion on what to use, not to expensive or free?

If the remote hosts are running FreeBSD, you can do almost *everything*
through SSH.  For example most of my FreeBSD-related testing work
happens through SSH connections to virtual machines these days.

If you really need to run a GUI application though there are a few
options:

  - The most basic is to connect to the remote machine in *some* way,
set the DISPLAY environment variable to point to a local X server
that may accept incoming connections and fire up your GUI program.

  - You can SSH into the remote machine and use the -X or -Y options to
set up 'X forwarding' back to the machine where the SSH connection
has originated from.

  - You can use programs like the NX tools http://www.nomachine.com/
to set up a 'remotely accessible X desktop' on the target machine
and then use nxclient to connect to it from anywhere.

The fastest and simplest method is still a plain good old SSH connection
though.  It requires minimal setup (an sshd daemon on the remote side),
it is accessible from anywhere in the world, it's secure against random
eavesdroppers, it's fast to connect to, it's pretty light-weight on both
the client and server systems, and you can do _everything_ on the remote
host [even full system upgrades from source].



Hello.
Thanks all for your time
On Freebsd and Linux machines I have entered using SSH already 
and I amtrying to help (my linux knowledge is not so good). :=(


Thing is to access the GUI, same screen they have with errors, on 
their windows and Mac machines (XP and OSX mainly). I am trying to 
setup one of the VNC solutions around. Just reading befores about 
security involved in each one.


Take care all and have a great day.

Jorge Biquez

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RE: Kind of off topic.

[Gary Gatten]

It sounds like you're wanting a remote desktop to actually see the active users 
GUI session?  If it's simply to see the error messages, I would recommend some 
sort of centralized logging.  There are several tools that take Winblows events 
and turn them into syslog events.  If you need remote desktop access, perhaps 
WebEx would help - or as others pointed out an RDP client for *nix should work 
as well.

G


-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org 
[mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Biquez
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:58 AM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Kind of off topic.


At 03:08 a.m. 14/12/2010, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:21:06 -0600, Jorge Biquez 
jbiq...@intranet.com.mx wrote:
  Hello all.
 
  A friend is asking me to help him to solve some problem he has in his
  servers. To some I would be able to connect using ssh, with other just
  it i snot possible. I remember that on the windows world there was a
  commercial software PCANywhere. He can have it but I am not sure if I
  would be able to connect to that from my Freebsd machine (of course
  not by ssh).
 
  What are you using for connecting to graphical interfaces of different
  OS's from FreeBSD?
 
  I tested some years ago a VNC software but did not work fine with MAC
  OSX (recently released by then).
 
  I know big security factors are involved for sure.
  Any suggestion on what to use, not to expensive or free?

If the remote hosts are running FreeBSD, you can do almost *everything*
through SSH.  For example most of my FreeBSD-related testing work
happens through SSH connections to virtual machines these days.

If you really need to run a GUI application though there are a few
options:

   - The most basic is to connect to the remote machine in *some* way,
 set the DISPLAY environment variable to point to a local X server
 that may accept incoming connections and fire up your GUI program.

   - You can SSH into the remote machine and use the -X or -Y options to
 set up 'X forwarding' back to the machine where the SSH connection
 has originated from.

   - You can use programs like the NX tools http://www.nomachine.com/
 to set up a 'remotely accessible X desktop' on the target machine
 and then use nxclient to connect to it from anywhere.

The fastest and simplest method is still a plain good old SSH connection
though.  It requires minimal setup (an sshd daemon on the remote side),
it is accessible from anywhere in the world, it's secure against random
eavesdroppers, it's fast to connect to, it's pretty light-weight on both
the client and server systems, and you can do _everything_ on the remote
host [even full system upgrades from source].


Hello.
Thanks all for your time
On Freebsd and Linux machines I have entered using SSH already 
and I amtrying to help (my linux knowledge is not so good). :=(

Thing is to access the GUI, same screen they have with errors, on 
their windows and Mac machines (XP and OSX mainly). I am trying to 
setup one of the VNC solutions around. Just reading befores about 
security involved in each one.

Take care all and have a great day.

Jorge Biquez

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 and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential.
 If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
 any review, use, dissemination, disclosure or copying of this email
 and its attachments, if any, is strictly prohibited.  If you have
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RE: Kind of off topic.

[Jorge Biquez]

Exactly... some of the things I need to help them is an old 
application they are using developed in house for them... but that 
does not record teh errors logs... that's why I need to be seeing 
the actual user interface while they are working trying to reproduce 
the errors they have
On Mac they are setting up and old version of Timbuktu and that will 
do the job I guess


Thanks all.

Jorge Biquez

At 12:13 p.m. 14/12/2010, Gary Gatten wrote:
It sounds like you're wanting a remote desktop to actually see the 
active users GUI session?  If it's simply to see the error messages, 
I would recommend some sort of centralized logging.  There are 
several tools that take Winblows events and turn them into syslog 
events.  If you need remote desktop access, perhaps WebEx would 
help - or as others pointed out an RDP client for *nix should work as well.


G


-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org 
[mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Biquez

Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:58 AM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Kind of off topic.


At 03:08 a.m. 14/12/2010, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:21:06 -0600, Jorge Biquez
jbiq...@intranet.com.mx wrote:
  Hello all.
 
  A friend is asking me to help him to solve some problem he has in his
  servers. To some I would be able to connect using ssh, with other just
  it i snot possible. I remember that on the windows world there was a
  commercial software PCANywhere. He can have it but I am not sure if I
  would be able to connect to that from my Freebsd machine (of course
  not by ssh).
 
  What are you using for connecting to graphical interfaces of different
  OS's from FreeBSD?
 
  I tested some years ago a VNC software but did not work fine with MAC
  OSX (recently released by then).
 
  I know big security factors are involved for sure.
  Any suggestion on what to use, not to expensive or free?

If the remote hosts are running FreeBSD, you can do almost *everything*
through SSH.  For example most of my FreeBSD-related testing work
happens through SSH connections to virtual machines these days.

If you really need to run a GUI application though there are a few
options:

   - The most basic is to connect to the remote machine in *some* way,
 set the DISPLAY environment variable to point to a local X server
 that may accept incoming connections and fire up your GUI program.

   - You can SSH into the remote machine and use the -X or -Y options to
 set up 'X forwarding' back to the machine where the SSH connection
 has originated from.

   - You can use programs like the NX tools http://www.nomachine.com/
 to set up a 'remotely accessible X desktop' on the target machine
 and then use nxclient to connect to it from anywhere.

The fastest and simplest method is still a plain good old SSH connection
though.  It requires minimal setup (an sshd daemon on the remote side),
it is accessible from anywhere in the world, it's secure against random
eavesdroppers, it's fast to connect to, it's pretty light-weight on both
the client and server systems, and you can do _everything_ on the remote
host [even full system upgrades from source].


Hello.
Thanks all for your time
On Freebsd and Linux machines I have entered using SSH already
and I amtrying to help (my linux knowledge is not so good). :=(

Thing is to access the GUI, same screen they have with errors, on
their windows and Mac machines (XP and OSX mainly). I am trying to
setup one of the VNC solutions around. Just reading befores about
security involved in each one.

Take care all and have a great day.

Jorge Biquez

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RE: Kind of off topic.

[Michael J. Kearney]

-Original Message-
From: Michael J. Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 5:24 PM
To: Jorge Biquez
Subject: RE: Kind of off topic.

ssh to the x-server with xwin32 ...

FreeBSD runs with the command:

xterm -fn 6x13 -sb -ls -display 192.168.0.2:0  /usr/local/bin/startxfce4

-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org 
[mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Biquez
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 6:21 PM
To: FreeBSD
Subject: Kind of off topic.

Hello all.

A friend is asking me to help him to solve some problem he has in his
servers. To some I would be able to connect using ssh, with other
just it i snot possible. I remember that on the windows world there
was a commercial software PCANywhere. He can have it but I am not
sure if I would be able to connect to that from my Freebsd machine
(of course not by ssh).
What are you using for connecting to graphical interfaces of
different OS's from FreeBSD?
I tested some years ago a VNC software but did not work fine with MAC
OSX (recently released by then).
I know big security factors are involved for sure.
Any suggestion on what to use, not to expensive or free?

Thanks in advance
Jorge Biquez

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