On 18 May 2021, at 19:21, Rodney W. Grimes wrote:
>> I'm experimenting with bhyve VMs with more than 16 vCPUs on FreeBSD
>> I began working on a machine with only eight CPU cores/threads, so
>> rather than trying to increase VM_MAXCPU, I tried to decrease it, which
>> seemed to work fine. My
ed. The growfs(7) rc script is run at first boot to size
up the root fs as needed. It can always be run manually later via:
service growfs onestart
if/when the size of the disk changes...
Hmm, just noticed that growfs(7) isn't linked from growfs(8), guess
I need to fix that.
--
growfs md1p3# grow ufs
Note that mdconfig may output a different md device than md1, use
that instead.
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
"All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."
signatur
Thanks to all who responded. For the record, the solution was to add
this:
disk0_type="virtio-blk"
to my /vmm/fbsd1/fbsd1.conf file.
I also added that to my /vmm/.templates/freebsd-zvol.conf.
On 16 Mar 2021, at 8:01, John Doherty via freebsd-virtualization wrote:
Hi, I
Hi, I am trying to get started with vm-bhyve and getting a little stuck.
I am sure there are things I don't understand here so I hope you will
bear with me.
I am using a machine with an AMD FX-8370E eight-core CPU, running
12.2-RELEASE-p4. The machine boots from a ~60GB SATA SSD which is
Willem Jan Withagen wrote this message on Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 01:42 +0100:
> On 25-1-2021 19:42, John-Mark Gurney wrote:
> > Matt Churchyard wrote this message on Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 10:46 +:
> >> -Original Message-----
> >> From: John-Mark Gurney
>
Matt Churchyard wrote this message on Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 10:46 +:
> -Original Message-
> From: John-Mark Gurney
> Sent: 25 January 2021 06:21
> To: Matt Churchyard
> Cc: Elena Mihailescu ;
> freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Warm Migrat
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 03:14:53PM -0800, John Kennedy wrote:
> At work, we have RHEL (-ish; some RHEL, some CentOS, some OEL). Mostly v7,
> some v8. Since I'm doing the Covid work-from-home telecommute, I'm trying to
> recreate some of my work infrastructure while trying to plan a bi
n host1
> * send a new snapshot
> * initiate the migration of memory/device data
> * start guest on host2
>
> Are there any major complications here I'm not aware of other than the
> requirement to pause the guest and kick off the state migration as two
> separate calls?
There'
At work, we have RHEL (-ish; some RHEL, some CentOS, some OEL). Mostly v7,
some v8. Since I'm doing the Covid work-from-home telecommute, I'm trying to
recreate some of my work infrastructure while trying to plan a bit towards
the future (migrating a lot of VMs to Azure).
What I'd like to
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 01:48:09PM +, Wei Hu via freebsd-virtualization
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> You can use resize option on Azure portal to increase the CPU and RAM of your
> VM. I believe you don't need to shut down the VM. Once you start the
> resizing, Azure will take care of rebooting the
fo in exactly how your system is setup... If
you could provide more concrete information about what interfaces you
are using, and what IPs are configured on what interfaces (or VMs),
that'd be helpful.
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
&
nk.tap.up_on_open helps w/ this)...
I have heard (and that is the way I do that), that you have to put the
host IPs on the bridge0 interface, and not the em0 interface.
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
"All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
ts a bunch of configuration variables just as the
parser of the flat config file does. There might need to be
some additional logic for a nice UCL syntax for things like
choosing PCI slots if an explicit one isn't given, etc. but
that should be doable.
https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26035
--
Jo
IP address?
I assume that these addresses are assigned via DHCP server, otherwise
if you are launching the VM's w/ known static IP's, you could use
pf's anchor directive, and each start/stop of a VM, update the rule for
that tap's anchor.
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
"All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
at they compile libraries w/o the kernel headers
and then link those files into the kernel module wrapper...
I did notice that we mistakenly still have a prototype for bcmp in
sys/systm.h even though that function get's #defined to a builtin
instead...
> On 5/9/20, John-Mark Gurney wrote:
&g
.
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
"All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."
Index: virtualbox-ose/files/patch-src_VBox_Additions_freebsd_vboxvfs_Ma
;
> I have updated my patch to add TRIM support to the bhyve block interface
> here:
>
> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D21707
>
> I am working on an update to the virtio driver, to make FreeBSD guests
> able to TRIM if the hypervisor supports it as well:
r the process
was locked down, it doesn't provide additional security, as any
attacker could just open it up, and do the operation...
So, I'm really confused as to what the benefit of not opening it at
the start is..
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:59 AM John-Mark Gurney wrote:
> >
> >
something like pci_passthru.c does in passthru_init,
and open /dev/nvme0 in pci_nvme_init?
Or am I missing something?
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
"All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."
__
n the host if these cpu cycle counters are exposed
to all users, which is the default.
The counters should be restricted on who has access to them, and only
allowing root, or the owner of the guest vmm to access them.
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
rning. Assume it is
- always declared, since it is required by C89. */
-#undef gets
-_GL_WARN_ON_USE (gets, "gets is a security hole - use fgets instead");
-
#if @GNULIB_FOPEN@
# if @REPLACE_FOPEN@
# if !(defined __cplusplus && defined GNULIB_NAMESPACE)
John
groenv...@acm.org
___
s before it worked.
This is pretty impressive work! Would you be able to post these patches to
a public repository, e.g. on github or gitlab or some such? That would
really help with review and allow others to assist with the work as well.
--
John Baldwin
__
bugmeister@ has kindly added a new "bhyve" component for base system
bugs. It would be great going forward for new bhyve-related bugs to
use this component. Fixing the component of open bugs might also be
useful if you are updating them to add a comment, etc.
--
Jo
fix the root
>> issue at
>> https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd/compare/master...bsdjhb:bhyve_passthrough_barsize
>
> Could you please factor out the white space changes and do that
> seperately and sooner, it clouds the S/N in this review a bit.
I can pull those out, but
s does indeed
size
BARs in parallel). For pass-through devices we aren't currently correctly
disabling
access to a BAR when the guest disables it in the PCI command register which in
turn trips the assertion when using a Windows guest, but in general we need to
be
honoring
> On Feb 11, 2019, at 6:32 AM, Christian Kratzer wrote:
>
> I am running freebsd vm on debian 10 buster with libvirt/kvm/qemu.
>
> I have several kvm hosts in the cluster. Some with various intel xeon and
> others with AMD EPYC 7301 cpu.
>
> FreeBSD vms upto 11.2-RELEASE-p9 boo fine on all
> On Jan 22, 2019, at 11:54 PM, Sergey Zakharchenko
> wrote:
>
> Hello there guys,
>
>> Not quite. I took over the docker freebsd port. Currently I am trying to
>> change him to moby project on GH.
>
> Jochen, I wish you the best of luck. As a couple of cents, and on
> behalf of Digital
> On Jan 23, 2019, at 11:26 AM, John Nielsen wrote:
>
>> On Jan 22, 2019, at 11:54 PM, Sergey Zakharchenko
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello there guys,
>>
>>> Not quite. I took over the docker freebsd port. Currently I am trying to
>>> chang
On 10/15/18 10:11 AM, Mike Tancsa wrote:
> On 10/15/2018 12:23 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
>>
>> That panic doesn't really make sense. :( The patch only changes behavior
>> when you are actually running a guest, it doesn't affect anything in the
>> vmm.ko initialization.
&g
On 10/11/18 1:04 PM, Mike Tancsa wrote:
> On 10/11/2018 3:02 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
>> Can someone using bhyve on an AMD host test this patch? Just booting a
>> guest to multiuser is probably sufficient testing:
>>
>> https://githu
Can someone using bhyve on an AMD host test this patch? Just booting a
guest to multiuser is probably sufficient testing:
https://github.com/bsdjhb/freebsd/commit/97323364e196900548f5293ac97bfb22b8a2ba72.patch
Thanks.
--
John Baldwin
uota that prevents a dataset/zdev, or it's descendants from growing
larger, or you could have refreservation or reservation set which limits
the space that other datasets can consume..
--
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"All that I will do, has been
I asked this on usb@, but might get a better bhyve perspective on this
list...
Does anyone have thought about what it would take to support access to
individual usb devices "natively" from a bhyve vm?
___
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iki.freebsd.org/HyperV !
This is likely the same issue as:
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=230808
If you're having troubles w/ the host freezing, this should probably
still be investigated as even w/ the excessive locking, it should never
freeze.
--
John-Mark Gurne
Tx per the commit log in revision 280725. We could perhaps try
to provide a "fake" INTx interrupt that doesn't work, but I'll have to think
about how to implement that.
--
John Baldwin
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https://l
ut with OpenBSD and a Intel NIC. Then I added the Broadcom NIC
> since I figured that maybe it's a driver issue.
> I'm running bhyve on 11.1-RELEASE-p11.
>
> Any ideas?
You have to use MSI interrupts for pass-through devices for bhyve. Those
errors look as if the guests are trying to u
lso don't know his work load, or vCPUs per VM...
--
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"All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."
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https://li
On 6/15/18 11:22 AM, John Baldwin wrote:
> On 6/15/18 4:44 AM, richard bader wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> i try to install a virtual host on a virtual root-server (netcup.de)
>>
>> I've enabled the VMX-Options on the root-server.
>>
>> I've followed the ins
x9c
> #5 0x8030202c at btext+0x2c
> Uptime: 1s
>
> Any ideas to get it working or is it just not possible.
This indicates a bug in the ACPI tables generated by bhyve to give to the
guest. Try setting the environment variable 'BHYVE_A
141. I interpret it as signal 13, EPIPE.
FWIW, for the debug server I made the sockets disable SIGPIPE to avoid
killing the guest if the debugger dies. The -g sockets probably need to
disable SIGPIPE as well.
--
John Baldwin
___
freebsd-virtualization@freebs
long time ago..
Hope this helps.
--
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"All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."
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https:/
Rajil Saraswat wrote this message on Sat, May 13, 2017 at 20:34 -0500:
> I am looking for a recommendation for an out-of-the-box working PCIE
> card with USB controller.
They all should just work. The driver interface is standardized and
should just work no mater what card you pick.
--
ual drive
> and then to bhyve img.
Have you just tried to point the disk image at your HD? This should
"just work" as zvol (which is one way to run a VM) works, and a disk
isn't any different...
bhyve doesn't have a format, it's just raw disk images..
--
John-Mark Gurney
r code 70
Stop.
make[6]: stopped in /usr/ports/lang/python3
*** Error code 1
Stop.
...
Thanks,
John Klos
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To unsubscribe, send any
ces for pass through post-boot rather than using the loader.conf
option. E.g.:
# devctl set driver pci0:11:0:0 ppt
Currently there's no way to undo this, you can can 'set driver' to a
"native" driver if one exists.
--
John Baldwin
___
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Paul Vixie wrote:
>
> Сергей Мамонов wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> Yes - zvols looks awesome. But what driver you use for it?
>
> virtio-blk.
>
>> And what
>> about disk usage overhead in guest?
>
> ufs on zvol is faster, either in the parent or a
partition, it might be MBR
instead, which would be md0s1, etc.
Thanks for the confirmation, thats useful info.
--
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,
--
John
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"virtio disk device volume \"${virtio_diskdev}\" does not
exist."
+echo "Please create it"
+ exit 1
+fi
fi
if [ ! -r ${virtio_diskdev} ]; then
regards
John
John Dickinson
http://sinodun.com
Sinodun Internet Technologies
> On Jan 4, 2016, at 9:32 AM, James Lodge wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
>
> I'm just getting started with Bhyve. So far everything is working as
> expected. My original goal was to be running Ubuntu 12.04 i386 as I need it
> for a particular project. One issue I'm having is MAC
if you want to truly
> >passthrough the BAR to the guest.
> >
> >best
> >Neel
> >
> >> --
> >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >> ___
> >> freebsd-virtua
you have a single UFS fs, w/ the root as the last
partition/fs on the disk, simply grow the disk, and then you can run
"service growfs start", and it just works...
This will work on any system, not just VMs...
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 02:42:50PM -0500, Manas Bhatnagar wrote:
On 19/11/15 12:20 PM, John wrote:
Hello list,
What's the best way of increasing the space of a bhyve guest instance?
Would it be via growfs? Inside or outside of the vm? Or would it be
better to truncate another chunk of space
Hello list,
What's the best way of increasing the space of a bhyve guest instance?
Would it be via growfs? Inside or outside of the vm? Or would it be
better to truncate another chunk of space and refer to it in /etc/fstab?
thanks,
--
John
are some steps I can perform to
> > speed up the python to work not slower than on Debian.
> >
> > I have found in Google the similar question:
> > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-python/2012-June/004306.html so
> > it has an interest
I’m running bhyve on an Intel machine running FreeBSD 11-CURRENT, updated a few
days ago. I have a Debian 8.2 VM that has been running fine but now I’d like to
add a PCI pass-through device. Unfortunately, when I add the required “-S” flag
to my grub-bhyve command line it doesn’t work:
#
andlers
are limited in what they can do and must often defer work to other threads
that they explicitly schedule (such as via a taskqueue).
--
John Baldwin
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https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-vi
d
a context switch to another thread is performed via the checks in
userret() and/or ast(). This is how IPI_AST is used. It has a NULL
handler and is only sent to trigger the side effects in userret() in
case the thread is executing in userland.
--
John Baldwin
_
__CTASSERT(x, y)typedef char __assert ## y[(x) ? 1
: -1]
+#define__CTASSERT(x, y)typedef char __assert ## y[(x) ? 1
: -1] \
+ __unused
#endif
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225
John-Mark Gurney wrote this message on Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 12:36 -0700:
I'm trying to run either Net or Open for some testing, and I'm not
having luck.
After first figuring out that the README on github doesn't include that
you need to include the boot device to load the files from, I
,Topology,PCXC,PNXC
Structured Extended Features=0x8BMI1
SVM: NP,NRIP,VClean,AFlush,DAssist,NAsids=65536
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has
Andriy Gapon wrote this message on Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 10:10 +0300:
On 03/06/2015 02:04, John-Mark Gurney wrote:
Andriy Gapon wrote this message on Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 21:15 +0300:
I guess you are running bhyve through the shell script vmrun.sh?
I am doing everything by hand.
Correct
Andriy Gapon wrote this message on Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 21:15 +0300:
On 02/06/2015 19:49, John-Mark Gurney wrote:
Andriy Gapon wrote this message on Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 14:20 +0300:
I am very new to bhyve, so sorry if I am asking something silly or obvious.
I am using bhyve to speed up my
?
Hmm... I'm not seeing that here... I just scp a new kernel into the
vm, install it, and run shutdown -r now which drops bhyve back to
loader, and loads the new kernel... I've been doing this quite
successfully over the last few months...
I am running a month old HEAD though...
--
John-Mark
various rc.d scripts to run, and you can use that to make sure all
your bhyve instances are shutdown...
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not.
___
freebsd
for these MAC
addresses?
Depends, if NetApp gave us permission to use them here, then we might
as well keep using them. gnn would be the persion to talk to about
this..
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
All that I will do, has been done, All that I have
On Mar 27, 2015, at 10:47 AM, John Nielsen li...@jnielsen.net wrote:
On Mar 27, 2015, at 3:46 AM, Alexander Motin m...@freebsd.org wrote:
I've always assumed virtio driver emulated driver so it didn't occur
to me to try ahci-hd.
I've just merged to FreeBSD stable/10 branch set of bhyve
that would present a
modem device that could be used w/ tip or cu and connect to an RFC2217
server on the back end giving you complete remove access to all settings
of the serial port, but haven't gotten around to doing that yet...
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
?
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not.
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...
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All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not.
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Pete Wright wrote this message on Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 11:40 -0800:
On 12/10/14 11:29, John-Mark Gurney wrote:
Pete Wright wrote this message on Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 15:44 -0800:
On 12/08/14 15:30, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
(3) When you want to backup the VM, do a zfs snapshot take take
On Oct 26, 2014, at 4:40 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox zbee...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 8:20 PM, Neel Natu neeln...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox zbee...@gmail.com
wrote:
I tried to integrate this patch into 10.1_RC3 and I failed. Is there a
and backup-over-ssh routine.
thanks,
--
John
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}
smbios.bios.vendor=BHYVE
Any ideas?
Oh, I did verify that uart0 is functional by logging into the system
and doing: echo foobar /dev/cuau0
So, it's not like the console is not working, it's clearly a problem w/
the kernel deciding to use it as console..
--
John-Mark Gurney
, it's not just that flag that's the issue..
I also just did a diff between the amd64 and i386 /boot dir, and besides
the expected, boot blocks and loader differing, the only differences are
if_faith_load got removed and ata and apm hints are now present..
--
John-Mark Gurney
John-Mark Gurney wrote this message on Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 10:50 -0800:
I also just did a diff between the amd64 and i386 /boot dir, and besides
the expected, boot blocks and loader differing, the only differences are
if_faith_load got removed and ata and apm hints are now present..
Don't
= 18253611008 (17408 MB)
avail memory = 16573952000 (15806 MB)
Event timer LAPIC quality 400
ACPI APIC Table: BHYVE BVMADT
[...]
uart0: 16550 or compatible port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0
uart0: console (9600,n,8,1)
I can provide more if you'd like...
--
John-Mark Gurney
access to some device?
--
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On Saturday, November 15, 2014 1:15:23 pm John-Mark Gurney wrote:
Julian Elischer wrote this message on Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 00:23 +0800:
On 11/15/14, 5:43 PM, John-Mark Gurney wrote:
John-Mark Gurney wrote this message on Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 01:37 -0800:
So, I got remote kgdb working w
) - display an XvImage
hmm.. nope... jail has something about vnets, but not nearly enough
to be useful...
--
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All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not.
___
freebsd
on
how to fix this?
Thanks.
--
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All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not.
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John-Mark Gurney wrote this message on Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 01:37 -0800:
So, I got remote kgdb working w/ bhyve, but kernel modules aren't
loaded...
I'm getting:
(kgdb) bt
#0 kdb_enter (why=0x8102ee88 panic, msg=value optimized out)
at ../../../kern/subr_kdb.c:444
#1
Julian Elischer wrote this message on Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 00:23 +0800:
On 11/15/14, 5:43 PM, John-Mark Gurney wrote:
John-Mark Gurney wrote this message on Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 01:37 -0800:
So, I got remote kgdb working w/ bhyve, but kernel modules aren't
loaded...
I'm getting:
(kgdb) bt
Alfred Perlstein wrote this message on Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 22:37 -0700:
On 10/29/14 9:34 PM, John-Mark Gurney wrote:
So, Michael Dexter prodded me to document how I'm doing it, so I put
up a blog post at:
http://blog.funkthat.com/2014/10/building-bhyve-images-using-makefs-and.html
It's
for getting bhyve running on AMD! :)
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add denyall from 192.168.16.0/24 to any via wlan0
# pass everything else
add allow all from any to any
(I have not figured out a way to have the NAT prefer em0 if present and fail
over to wlan0 if not, etc.)
--
John Baldwin
___
freebsd
On Monday, October 27, 2014 12:47:13 PM Conrad Meyer wrote:
Hi John,
I don't have access to phabricator so I'll try and review in email.
+#ifdef XEN
+int vm_guest = VM_GUEST_XEN;
+#else
+int vm_guest = VM_GUEST_NO; /* Running as virtual machine guest? */
+#endif
The whitespace
,
I *think* I may have sussed it out. So far, the instance boots
and loads its services (it's a web server) but it's hanging halfway
through the loading process, and I can't make it abort loading them
with ctrl-c for example.
cheers,
--
John
___
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Can someone write a man page for this tool?
I'm willing to do the formating if someone writes the text...
Thanks.
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has
Features=0x8BMI1
TSC: P-state invariant, performance statistics
real memory = 8589934592 (8192 MB)
avail memory = 7665848320 (7310 MB)
I'm willing to test any patches you throw my way...
--
John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579
All that I will do, has
Neel Natu wrote this message on Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:01 -0700:
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 11:50 AM, John-Mark Gurney j...@funkthat.com wrote:
So, I did, and it failed...
First, if_tap doesn't get automatically loaded.. but that was easy to
spot due to the error message... loader runs
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 02:02:17PM +0100, John wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 05:11:07AM -0400, Cory Smelosky wrote:
You can convert the image without data loss. Qemu-img and
VBoxManage provide a means to do as such.
I know, I had already converted it to raw. The question
have sorted it in any case. I was thrown by
the login prompt not appearing in the console.
Really pleased with the performance of ubuntu on bhyve. It doesn't impact
much on the host either.
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John
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John
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On Oct 15, 2014, at 5:56 AM, freebsd-li...@potato.growveg.org wrote:
Can a bhyve instance be resized? I'm talking about the disk.
Say your end user needs more diskspace. They have 32GB. They need 64GB.
How do you do it? I presume one has to stop the guest, then use truncate.
What about if
Alexander V. Chernikov wrote:
On 11 Oct 2014, at 21:58, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
Hi,
What action items are left to enable VIMAGE by default for FreeBSD 11?
well the next step is to make it a dependancy so that free bsd won't
install without it, and to inject it in many
Alexander V. Chernikov wrote:
On 11 Oct 2014, at 21:58, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
Hi,
What action items are left to enable VIMAGE by default for FreeBSD 11?
Are there any tests results showing performance implications on different
network-related workloads?
Not everyone
Answered my own question - the machine froze and rebooted. Now bhyve works as
expected. Looks like it's as fast as bare metal, which is unexpected.
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.
Here you have zvols which default to 8k but the vtbd device reports
512b sectors, not sure if you try to trick it into using larger values
here wouldn't help.
Also different UFS block sizes for different zvol recordlens might be
interesting test.
Thanks again for the advice
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John
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