[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Update of patch #3432 (project freeciv): Status: Ready For Test = Done Open/Closed:Open = Closed ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #14, patch #3432 (project freeciv): As all nations still live in same .po file, maybe you should add at TRANS comment next to each core nation legend so translators could search for those. I was thinking that we'd split the po-file soon enough (although not for beta1). However, since I've had to reset the clock on the Celtic patch anyway, I've updated this one to include the comments for now. They'll probably come out again if/when the po-file is split. I'll consider this updated patch ripe for commit within 24h. (file #16336, file #16337) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: trunk-core-nations-p3449-4.patch Size:29 KB File name: S2_4-core-nations-p3449-4.patch Size:29 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #11, patch #3432 (project freeciv): Is it possible to have 'extended' civil war nations spawn in a core nations game? 2.4 (patch #3449): not unless *all* other core nations run out, so, mostly not. 2.5 (patch #3448): not at all. If not then maybe it would be a good solution to add some non-core nations as non-playable nations to the core set, giving every core nation at least one related civil war nation. Hm. I'm not sure the current solution would permit that. presumably you'd want these civil war nations playable when using extended nations; one goal has been to avoid having to fork any of the individual nation ruleset files; but having nations playable in one context but not another would require that, I think, unless we invent even more syntax. Plus I'm not sure that non-playable-but-civil-war-able is supported currently (haven't checked). Having extra unplayable civil war nations in core would meet the goal of not overwhelming players, but would compromise the one about not overloading translators -- they'd have to translate nearly double the number of nations. (I suppose you could ignore the nation legends for these, but any po-file-splitting arrangements are unlikely to make that distinction.) It seems I missed the Spanish... they should be in of course. Who gets the chop from the extras to make room? [scenarios] Gallic could be represented by Celtic, British by English and Cambodian by Khmer. [...] And I forgot that modern scenario format allows multiple nations to be candidates for a starting position, so we can keep the existing nation/position mappings as well (may require updating the format of scenarios). ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #12, patch #3432 (project freeciv): It seems I missed the Spanish... they should be in of course. Who gets the chop from the extras to make room? For the sake of having a patch for testing and ready to commit for 2.4.0-beta1, I've removed the Vietnamese. Rationale was based on other nations' civilwar_nations, then tie-breaker (between Polish and Vietnamese) of localisations we have today. Will commit this soon if no-one else objects or steps up. (file #16316, file #16317) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: trunk-core-nations-p3449-ter.patch Size:26 KB File name: S2_4-core-nations-p3449-ter.patch Size:26 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #13, patch #3432 (project freeciv): As all nations still live in same .po file, maybe you should add at TRANS comment next to each core nation legend so translators could search for those. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #10, patch #3432 (project freeciv): Is it possible to have 'extended' civil war nations spawn in a core nations game? If not then maybe it would be a good solution to add some non-core nations as non-playable nations to the core set, giving every core nation at least one related civil war nation. A game with only core nations would allow for an Algerian nation in the game; it shouldn't appear when picking an nation, but it could appear in case a civil war hits the French (and/or Arabs). The Spanish come up a lot... maybe they should be in the extras? (I'm sure they've been in at least one commercial Civ.) It seems I missed the Spanish... they should be in of course. earth-160x90-v2.sav: 24/30 in core Missing: Gallic, British, Inuit, Papuan, Cambodian, Manchu. Gallic could be represented by Celtic, British by English and Cambodian by Khmer. Polynesian could serve as a replacement for Papuan. I'm not sure about Inuit and Manchu; some Native American nation and Hunnic would be options. north_america_116x100-v1.2.sav: 9/12 Missing: Spanish, Scottish, Irish. Scottish or Irish could be represented by Celtic. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Update of patch #3432 (project freeciv): Planned Release: = 2.4.0,2.5.0 ___ Follow-up Comment #7: Patch #3449 is now committed. I'd like to get this in for beta1, if possible. Are we happy with it the way it is, given the status wrt scenarios/civilwar/conflicts already posted? I'm happy to commit what we have to trunk and S2_4 myself -- I'll do it before beta1 if no-one says anything. (But I'm equally happy for someone else to pick it up.) ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #8, patch #3432 (project freeciv): For the patch #3449 approach, Barbarian and Pirate nations need to be in the Core group. (This was probably a good idea anyway, if we were going to trigger a pot-file split based off membership in the Core group -- we need them translated.) This won't affect the nation groups displayed to the client, as these are not playable nations. (file #16238, file #16239) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: trunk-core-nations-p3449-bis.patch Size:25 KB File name: S2_4-core-nations-p3449-bis.patch Size:25 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #9, patch #3432 (project freeciv): (BTW, another use for this core group would be if a custom tileset wanted a custom flagset -- IIRC one tileset author on the forum wanted their own flagset for some reason. This allows them to focus on a manageable number of flags.) ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Update of patch #3432 (project freeciv): Status:None = Ready For Test ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #6, patch #3432 (project freeciv): Updated patches attached which rely on the mechanism defined in patch #3449. (file #16220, file #16221) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: trunk-core-nations-p3449.patch Size:24 KB File name: S2_4-core-nations-p3449.patch Size:24 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Update of patch #3432 (project freeciv): Depends on: = patch #3316 ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Update of patch #3432 (project freeciv): Depends on: = patch #3449 ___ Follow-up Comment #3: Re my comment #1, I've got some proposals for code changes to avoid these problems: * Long-term (for 2.5): patch #3448 * Short-term (for 2.4): patch #3449 ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #4, patch #3432 (project freeciv): I went through our supplied scenarios to see how the nations in them compare to this core set. Obviously some scenarios are never going to fit in the core (the Europe scenario obviously has a European bias), but some are close. Perhaps this should inform the set of five extras chosen for the core. Also, we could tweak the nations in the 2.4 scenarios to fit the core set (in a new ticket). * In with a shout: ** earth-160x90-v2.sav: 24/30 in core *** Missing: Gallic, British, Inuit, Papuan, Cambodian, Manchu. ** japan-88x100-v1.3.sav: 7/8 in core; only missing the Spanish ** north_america_116x100-v1.2.sav: 9/12 *** Missing: Spanish, Scottish, Irish. * Lost causes: ** british-isles-85x80-v2.80.sav: 1/5 in core ** europe-200x100-v2.sav: 13/37, or 15/37 with current extras ** france-140x90-v2.sav: 12/27, or 14/27 with current extras The Spanish come up a lot... maybe they should be in the extras? (I'm sure they've been in at least one commercial Civ.) ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #2, patch #3432 (project freeciv): I like this solution :) As for saying it's OK not to translate the non-Core nations, I suppose we should encourage translators to work on the names of nations, as they may pop up in the game. We may, however, say that nation legends have a slightly lower priority - they don't appear a lot in the game, but take a looot of time to translate. Obviously, in the ideal situation, all strings should be translated, but with such huge PO files, it may be useful to prioritize some strings over other ones. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
URL: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 Summary: Core nation group Project: Freeciv Submitted by: mixcoatl Submitted on: Wed Jul 18 22:32:12 2012 Category: general Priority: 5 - Normal Status: None Privacy: Public Assigned to: None Originator Email: Open/Closed: Open Discussion Lock: Any Planned Release: ___ Details: This patch adds a core nation group, consisting of the historically most important nations. It's the first group that appears when pickign a nation. This will ease selecting a nation for people who don't want to plow through large nation lists can pick a core one immediately. It consists of nations that appear in the games from the Civilization series: American Apache Arab Austrian Aztec Babylonian Byzantine Carthaginian Celtic Cherokee Chinese Danish Dutch Egyptian English Ethiopian French German Greek Hittite Hunnic Inca Indian Iroquois Japanese Khmer Korean Mali Mayan Mongolian Persian Polynesian Portuguese Roman Russian Sioux Songhai Sumerian Swedish Taíno (replacement for Arawak) Thai (replacement for Siamese) Tupi Turkish (replacement for Ottoman) Viking Zulu I left out Native American (there are enough individual Native American nations included already) and Holy Roman (too much overlap with German/Austrian). Celtic will be added to the game in patch #3316 Since this makes 45 I and 50 is a nice round number I decided to include an additional 5 modern nations, based on a mix between population size, historical importance and likelyhood that a player wants to play with this own nation: Brazilian Indonesian Italian Polish Vietnamese Is this still on time for 2_4? ___ File Attachments: --- Date: Wed Jul 18 22:32:13 2012 Name: core.patch Size: 26kB By: mixcoatl http://gna.org/patch/download.php?file_id=16132 ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #3432] Core nation group
Follow-up Comment #1, patch #3432 (project freeciv): I assume this is at least partially in reaction to the recent discussion on -i18n http://mail.gna.org/public/freeciv-i18n/2012-06/msg4.html. I had the same idea, and I think something like this is the most we'll be able to do for S2_4. Some drawbacks: * Even if the single player, or all human players, pick nations from the Core group, there's no guarantee that all nations in the game will come from it (although I assume the match=3 tries to encourage this). This becomes a problem if we say it's OK for translators to only translate the Core nations -- as a player, there's no way to ensure that you don't suddenly have untranslated strings thrown at you from non-Core nations. This could presumably happen if matching falls back, or perhaps more likely, in case of civil war. ** I've been wondering about doing something more radical on trunk: having a nationset choice that is orthogonal to or a subset of ruleset choice, so instead of selecting from group Core, there's a separate drop-down where you select Core or Extended nations, each with their own groups. That way you guarantee no nations outside the set will ever be chosen. I haven't thought hard about what to do about civilwar nations pointing outside the set though, and I doubt it can be done for 2.4. * Conversely, the match=3 will presumably distort random nation selection where the user is happy with using the extended set, such that the same old core nations will tend to come up over and over rather than the full richness of the extended nation set. * Core is a bit of a soulless name for a nation group, but it's exactly what I've been referring to this idea as in my head, and I haven't thought of a better suggestion. It consists of nations that appear in the games from the Civilization series: We've already got some of that with the separate civ1/civ2 nations.rulesets that appeared in patch #2243. Presumably you list includes Civ3 and up too. Celtic will be added to the game in patch #3316 [...] Is this still on time for 2_4? I don't see anything in this patch that can't go on S2_4 in principle, if we accept the drawbacks (although I don't think this patch will apply cleanly, the differences should be trivial). WRT patch #3316, we said we wouldn't put any more nations in S2_4, but I daresay we could make an exception given the rationale. (Note that civ2/nations.ruleset already has a Celtic nation, this being the only one not covered in the default nations -- it's quite different from patch #3316.) ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/patch/?3432 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
