Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > I think this should be in the ticket, so I'm sending it to RT. On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Kevin Benton wrote: > Brandon J. Van Every wrote: >> >> I don't see any big deal >> with RT because it's not my first instinct to look for someone else's >> bug to work on. My first instincts are to: >> > > Okay - I'm glad you don't care. I do care, however, because I think RT is a > piece of garbage when it comes to tracking software development projects. I > also hate the way it's currently configured to prevent others from being > able to view bugs and look for duplicates. It's discouraging to those of us > who actively want to participate in other parts of development like QA, > Reviews, etc. It's also discouraging for those of us on the "outside" > looking in trying to get a sense of where things are in the development > process because things are pretty hidden unless you actively try to look at > bugs that wouldn't show up in "normal" searches. My experience in open source is you have to communicate with other developers somehow. I've been heavily involved in a couple of smaller projects. They communicated by active mailing lists, and that worked fine. I've perused the Mozilla bug tracker. Culturally, they use it for communication instead of mailing lists. They're a huge project so perhaps they are justified in using bug trackers and newsgroups to communicate. It is quite amusing, however, to see vast threads of bug tracker discussion that never go anywhere. Especially when the discussion goes for years, with big lulls between. It's like the collective gestalt of such a system is extremely limited. The bug tracker is only as good as the people and the work they actually do. >> 2) evaluate the readability of the source code. So far, I find it >> readable. > > Again - great, but why not let the issue tracking system help in the review > process to make sure it's better still? Because I don't personally need or benefit from that much process. I think "swimming through muck" is a core skill in open source development. If a person can't do it, then they just don't get anywhere, and probably find something else to go do. Also, all the small projects I've seen, that have actually survived for a few years, have had decently readable code. The ones that don't just die, because nobody can figure out how to contribute. Freeciv is long past that stage. >> 4) evaluate the political tone and management of the project. What do >> people really spend their time on? What do they stew and get to >> loggerheads about? What do they fail to get done? What do they >> actively obstruct? > > Again - what does this have to do with the issue tracking system? Because it's a mistake to advance a technology to solve a cultural problem. > If all > you want to do is write code, great and bring it on. The problem I see is > at some point, it needs to be scrutinized by others, integration tested, and > issues need to be tracked and easy to look at for those who want to write > code themselves. This is where a good issue tracking system comes in. Can you point to any open source project that's about the size of Freeciv, that actually has a lot of programmers doing QA testbeds instead of core development of new features? Most people find this quite boring, and I say that as a build engineer who has tried to goad people into more QA. My experience is that on small projects, it doesn't happen. So there is a danger of overengineering a bug tracker, like expecting Mozilla-size development, when in fact it will never happen. > As I said earlier in this ticket, I'm willing to provide the elbow grease > necessary, however, I am not willing to host it personally because I can't > guarantee that I won't get hit by a bus and therefore, I am not able to > guarantee it to be up. Ok how about providing the elbow grease to solve that problem? I Googled for a few minutes and found there are definitely open source services that provide bug trackers. Show us one that's gonna stay alive independent of you. > I don't take lightly the commitment I'd be making if I choose to become a > contributor to the Freeciv (or any other) project. I choose carefully > because I have a life and I need to make sure I don't give up too much of > what's really important to me. Freeciv is a way for me to relax. I would > like to contribute to it in certain areas like the CMA because I really > think it could be improved a lot. [...and several other game design ideas.] Most volunteer developers care mainly about relaxing. At least that's what I see, in practice, as far as what they actually put their energy into. I think you can see why bug trackers and QA end up at the back of the queue. If QA isn't the #1 thing you want to do, are you sure you want to walk down this road? Maybe you should just dig into the CMA code and whatever else. Possibly accept RT for what it is: a
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:44 AM, Kevin Benton wrote: > > My experience is that open source projects benefit from transparency > with users and developers. When it's easy for a wanna-be developer to > look through issue lists, they can often pick something that'll be easy > for them to "get their feet wet" in contributing. Hi, I'm a developer, but not a wannabe. That is to say, I'm an expert coder and have used more than one bug tracker in more than one open source project over the years. I'm possibly interested in modifying the Freeciv sources, I'm still evaluating that. Your choice of bug tracker has nothing whatsoever to do with my evaluation. I think perhaps you're assuming a particular target audience, a newbie or intermediate level coder who doesn't quite know what they want to do, that you as more senior developers want to structure and direct somehow. There are other kinds of potential project contributors out there and perhaps considering their motivations and tastes would be of greater benefit to your ongoing efforts. I don't see any big deal with RT because it's not my first instinct to look for someone else's bug to work on. My first instincts are to: 1) get the source code built. If I can't build it, good chance the project isn't mature and I move on. I've been able to build Freeciv, although on Windows it's less pleasurable than it could be. 2) evaluate the readability of the source code. So far, I find it readable. 3) evaluate the modifiability of the source code. So far, I'm not sure the AI code conceptualizes anything the way I would. My instinct is to throw chunks of it out. Either start from scratch, or determine if a plugin architecture is reasonable. But, I haven't finished looking at it, so I will patiently evaluate what is reasonable to do. 4) evaluate the political tone and management of the project. What do people really spend their time on? What do they stew and get to loggerheads about? What do they fail to get done? What do they actively obstruct? To the last point: I went back and read the full history of this ticket. This has been all talk and no action for 2 years. In an open source community, if someone steps forward and provides the elbow grease to get something done, just go for it. Maybe RT vs. Bugzilla isn't super valuable in the scheme of things, as you don't have that many tickets, or developers willing to work on tickets. Gosh, have you ever looked through Mozilla's tickets and seen all the stuff that's been sitting around for years and years, that again was all talk and no action? It's documentation and process for it's own sake, it has no end result. BUT, if you've got a gung ho volunteer who actually will steward a new bug tracker, it's worth something just to add that guy's ongoing manpower to the project. I imagine Bugzilla *is* better than RT in some fashion, that some kind of gain can be made from changing, even if it is only a long term incremental gain. The more important consideration is you get this guy working on the project, stewarding something he considers Good. That's how you build project loyalty. Resources, schmesources. Don't any of you guys have a back pocket? For cheapskates, I Googled a little. What about these guys? http://teamforge.net/ Cheers, Brandon Van Every ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > [book - Mon Dec 29 08:39:03 2008]: > > Here is what needs to happen: > 1. A host for the bug tracker must be found. This is >either a machine someone can install/configure >bugzilla on, or a service hosting bugzilla. > 2. The current RT system needs to be frozen, all >new requests redirected to the new tracker, and >the public bug report address updated everywhere. > 3. Current outstanding tickets and history should be >moved to the new tracker. > > The problem has always been 1, since a dedicated > machine (e.g. in a data center) costs money, or a > free service is restricted (e.g. in allowed space) > or missing some key functionality. I have to ask yet again - though it isn't Bugzilla, has anyone seriously looked into sourceforge/tigris ? If not, has anyone considered going to any of the big hosting companies and see if they'd consider donating hosting? > Assuming a solution to the above exists, 2 is hard > because the only people (person?) with the required > access to the RT machine is not an active developer > and/or checks freeciv-dev only infrequently (besides > probably not having the time to make the changes in > RT, if that is even possible). I've done things like this in the past where all that was required was to replace all the CGI executables in such a way that they simply redirect the user to the new equivalent program. For example, when looking at this issue, the redirect CGI would display a message that the new location has moved for ten seconds and offer the user the ability to click to go there faster, or automatically go to .../show_bug.cgi?bug_id=RT16811 where Bugzilla would automatically translate from the bug alias to the proper bug ID in the new system. That is generally extremely easy to do. > 3 is not crucial; I assume there are less than 100 > important open tickets, which can be moved by hand > as they are handled, and the RT system could be kept > in "read-only" mode to make the history available > (in the minimum-effort scenario). Importing ticket history is relatively straightforward with Bugzilla. Doing that is as simple as adding comments to the appropriate table, and activity to the activity log. > If as you said using bugzilla would help encourage > developer contributions from the community then I am > strongly for it. This project is in great need of help > from competent coders to handle bug reports, assist > less experienced programmers with their ideas, and fix > the design mistakes that have broken past working > features (e.g. borders) and are causing new development > to stagnate. My experience is that open source projects benefit from transparency with users and developers. When it's easy for a wanna-be developer to look through issue lists, they can often pick something that'll be easy for them to "get their feet wet" in contributing. Bugzilla developers use this very method to mentor new developers - encouraging new developers to take on small changes to learn how the Bugzilla development process works and to get to know the new developers coding style. Developers mentor new developers through code reviews. Once code makes it through a review process, it goes through a similar approval process then gets published. I could go on, but I think you get the idea. It's appropriate to guard potential security issues from most others, but everything else is pretty much open game. KB ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > FWIW, the launchpad developers would help you import your bug history into launchpad. I can't say for certain that it does RT imports, but it does already integrate with RT instances - so you can add bugs to the freeciv bug tracker through launchpad right now so that any freeciv bugs related to ubuntu come back to freeciv as well. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/freeciv-rt https://bugs.launchpad.net/freeciv You can interact with bugs on launchpad through email as well as the web interface. One possible issue is that launchpad uses global bug numbers, so there wouldn't be a direct mapping from old numbers to new numbers. It may be possible to have bugs tagged with their RT bug number so you could still search by that. Cheers, Roger ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > [s1kevin - Mon Dec 29 07:06:22 2008]: > > This bug has been open since May of '06. Is anyone taking > my offer to assist moving from RT to Bugzilla seriously? > If not, please close this issue. > > I believe this is the best way I can contribute now to > the development of Freeciv - by providing what I feel > is a far superior issue tracking system with much better > search capabilities and more transparency to help encourage > developer participation (even new developers). If you use > Eclipse as your development environment, it has support > for task management (via Mylyn) directly in Bugzilla. > > I might be willing to assist in Freeciv code development, > but at this point, I'd want to use an issue tracking > system that supports me as both a user and a developer. > From my perspective, RT is not designed for software > development projects. Bugzilla is. Here is what needs to happen: 1. A host for the bug tracker must be found. This is either a machine someone can install/configure bugzilla on, or a service hosting bugzilla. 2. The current RT system needs to be frozen, all new requests redirected to the new tracker, and the public bug report address updated everywhere. 3. Current outstanding tickets and history should be moved to the new tracker. The problem has always been 1, since a dedicated machine (e.g. in a data center) costs money, or a free service is restricted (e.g. in allowed space) or missing some key functionality. Assuming a solution to the above exists, 2 is hard because the only people (person?) with the required access to the RT machine is not an active developer and/or checks freeciv-dev only infrequently (besides probably not having the time to make the changes in RT, if that is even possible). 3 is not crucial; I assume there are less than 100 important open tickets, which can be moved by hand as they are handled, and the RT system could be kept in "read-only" mode to make the history available (in the minimum-effort scenario). If as you said using bugzilla would help encourage developer contributions from the community then I am strongly for it. This project is in great need of help from competent coders to handle bug reports, assist less experienced programmers with their ideas, and fix the design mistakes that have broken past working features (e.g. borders) and are causing new development to stagnate. --- サンタクロースではなく、キッコーマンだよ。 ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > > All - my work domain has changed to beatport.com, however, the rest of > the email address remains the same. > This bug has been open since May of '06. Is anyone taking my offer to assist moving from RT to Bugzilla seriously? If not, please close this issue. I believe this is the best way I can contribute now to the development of Freeciv - by providing what I feel is a far superior issue tracking system with much better search capabilities and more transparency to help encourage developer participation (even new developers). If you use Eclipse as your development environment, it has support for task management (via Mylyn) directly in Bugzilla. I might be willing to assist in Freeciv code development, but at this point, I'd want to use an issue tracking system that supports me as both a user and a developer. From my perspective, RT is not designed for software development projects. Bugzilla is. ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > [s1kevin - Thu Jun 22 06:44:55 2006]: > > If you'd like to reach me more rapidly, you're welcome to try me at the > following obfuscated place: > > HELLOkevin.bentonWORLD at my work domain HELLOamd.comWORLD > > I think you'll figure out easily how to change that into a proper mailto > location. > > All - my work domain has changed to beatport.com, however, the rest of the email address remains the same. ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > Daniel Markstedt wrote: > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > > >>> sourceforge.net: The question was if bugzilla could run on SF.net webspace? >>> >> Would be nice. >> As has already been mentioned - SF has its own issue tracking system. > "Disk Quota: Each project is provided 100MB of disk space for their > usage." I'm quite sure the RT database ecxeeds that already. ( > http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=4297&group_id=1#acceptable_use > ) > > Why is that? What is causing the the high disk space usage? Attachments? Issues (unlikely)? Code? Something else? >>> icculus.org: IIRC, this was Per's contact. Status? >>> seul.org: IIRC, this was Egor's contact. Status? >>> >> Is that any better than freeciv.org? >> >> > > Dunno. Haven't yet seen their terms of use. > > >> What about GNA? >> >> > > If you mean the tracker, there was the problem that all projects use > common bug numbering. If we were to import a database of tens of > thousands of reports, it'd upset that system. > > Bugzilla provides the ability to use an alias for a bug, so it wouldn't be a problem to create "FCRT" as an alias for those that want to use the "old" issue numbers. That makes it easy to move to from system and not worry about renumbering. JIRA uses numbering per-project so the same is true there. >> >> >> To me the biggest issue is carrying over the bug database. Not that >> this is a show-stopper since it's clear that RT is not going to last >> forever and the longer we wait the worst the problem there will get - >> but, as RT is a simple database and bugzilla (or whatever) is a simple >> database it really shouldn't be too hard to transfer the whole thing over. >> Jason, I agree. The good thing about Bugzilla is that it does have the ability to import XML. The question is, how to deal with the bug's history. So - before migrating to any system, I think it's fair to ask - what are the requirements for data coming from the old system? How much of it must be carried over versus what parts can be left behind? I would have to assume that the RT system would be available for at least a short period after a migration was completed at least so that old data could still be looked up. Typically, the way I've done migrations like these is to write an import script that imports data from an existing system into the new system, first from a backed-up copy for development and testing purposes, then on migration day, from the live system. Kevin ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > Daniel, > If Bugzilla is indeed as easy to maintain as you say, I could volunteer > to take responsibility for it. > > The question of hosting remains. AFAIK, four alternatives have been > proposed over the years: > > freeciv.org > sourceforge.net > icculus.org > seul.org > > Let's go through them: > > freeciv.org: Our own aging servers in Paul's basement. Are they up to > the task? > sourceforge.net: The question was if bugzilla could run on SF.net webspace? > icculus.org: IIRC, this was Per's contact. Status? > seul.org: IIRC, this was Egor's contact. Status? > > ~Daniel > Bugzilla is pretty easy to administer these days. You can try it out on your own system if you'd like. The installation guide is very good and covers Linux well as well as Windows. It requires: A web server (preferrably Apache), a database server (preferrably MySQL), and Perl (5.8.6 or greater IIRC). One of the Bugzilla systems I manage at work takes less than 200MB of disk with about 50,000 bugs and all its associated data (attachments, code and templates included). Bugzilla has a tremendous reporting system and doing the queries you discussed in your email 2-3 hours after this one are all well covered. Users can sign themselves up for Bugzilla if it is configured to allow it and it now includes fairly good support for receiving emailed bug reports. I strongly encourage giving it a try on your own system first. Please let me know if you need help. Kevin ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > On Dec 2, 2007 1:11 AM, Jason Dorje Short <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We have to ask to get clarity on this matter. Who was in contact the > > gna.org folks when we migrated to svn? Vasco? Jason? > > Vasco or Per. I do not recall doing that. In any case, all you need is to place a support request at https://gna.org/support/?group=admin - Per ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > Daniel Markstedt wrote: > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > >> [wsimpson - Fri Nov 30 07:30:12 2007]: >> >> [snippet] >> >> Should GNA be willing to run bugzilla, that would be an option once >> everything has been converted. >> >> > > We have to ask to get clarity on this matter. Who was in contact the > gna.org folks when we migrated to svn? Vasco? Jason? Vasco or Per. ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > [wsimpson - Fri Nov 30 07:30:12 2007]: > > [snippet] > > Should GNA be willing to run bugzilla, that would be an option once > everything has been converted. > > We have to ask to get clarity on this matter. Who was in contact the gna.org folks when we migrated to svn? Vasco? Jason? ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > On 11/30/07, Jason Dorje Short <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > > Daniel Markstedt wrote: > > > freeciv.org: Our own aging servers in Paul's basement. Are they up to > > the task? > > To be avoided. > > > sourceforge.net: The question was if bugzilla could run on SF.net webspace? > > Would be nice. > "Disk Quota: Each project is provided 100MB of disk space for their usage." I'm quite sure the RT database ecxeeds that already. ( http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=4297&group_id=1#acceptable_use ) > > icculus.org: IIRC, this was Per's contact. Status? > > seul.org: IIRC, this was Egor's contact. Status? > > Is that any better than freeciv.org? > Dunno. Haven't yet seen their terms of use. > What about GNA? > If you mean the tracker, there was the problem that all projects use common bug numbering. If we were to import a database of tens of thousands of reports, it'd upset that system. > > > To me the biggest issue is carrying over the bug database. Not that > this is a show-stopper since it's clear that RT is not going to last > forever and the longer we wait the worst the problem there will get - > but, as RT is a simple database and bugzilla (or whatever) is a simple > database it really shouldn't be too hard to transfer the whole thing over. > > -jason > > > ~Daniel ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > On Nov 30, 2007 9:25 AM, Jason Dorje Short <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > > William Allen Simpson wrote: > > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > > > > I'm pretty sure that sourceforge runs its own tracking system. > > > > My preference would be to at least do the conversion to bugzilla on the > > current systems in place. There are scripts available that do the > > conversion from RT, easily found by Googling. > > > >http://www.socialtext.net/lite/page/open/bugzilla_migration_methodology > > > > Although somebody with PERL ability (not me) should modify the scripts to > > move everything, rather than only open tickets. > > > > Should GNA be willing to run bugzilla, that would be an option once > > everything has been converted. > > Sounds good. > > Who currently has access (an account) in the RT machine? > Per... I have a mysql dump of the RT database, from ca. januari 2007. -- /emj ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > William Allen Simpson wrote: > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > > I'm pretty sure that sourceforge runs its own tracking system. > > My preference would be to at least do the conversion to bugzilla on the > current systems in place. There are scripts available that do the > conversion from RT, easily found by Googling. > >http://www.socialtext.net/lite/page/open/bugzilla_migration_methodology > > Although somebody with PERL ability (not me) should modify the scripts to > move everything, rather than only open tickets. > > Should GNA be willing to run bugzilla, that would be an option once > everything has been converted. Sounds good. Who currently has access (an account) in the RT machine? -jason ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > I'm pretty sure that sourceforge runs its own tracking system. My preference would be to at least do the conversion to bugzilla on the current systems in place. There are scripts available that do the conversion from RT, easily found by Googling. http://www.socialtext.net/lite/page/open/bugzilla_migration_methodology Although somebody with PERL ability (not me) should modify the scripts to move everything, rather than only open tickets. Should GNA be willing to run bugzilla, that would be an option once everything has been converted. ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 15:33 -0800, Daniel Markstedt wrote: > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Wed Nov 14 01:54:33 2007]: > > > > On Sun, 2007-11-11 at 09:07 -0800, Per Inge Mathisen wrote: > > > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > > > > > > On Nov 11, 2007 5:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > From the hosting standpoint, if freeciv.org becomes a 401c3, then it > > > > could collect donations so that it could pay for its own hosting if it > > > > had to. > > > > > > The problem has always been to find someone who could host it with an > > > absolutely minimum of work needed to maintain it from our end. > > > > > > Registering and maintaining a charity is almost a full time job. > > > > > > > Has anyone looked into sourceforge? > > > > > > Last I checked, it could not run bugzilla. > > > > > > - Per > > > > > > > Hosting Bugzilla is actually very lightweight on time intensiveness from > > an administrative perspective. It's now possible to give the ability to > > manage individual product configurations to individuals that are not > > administrators without giving away the keys to the rest of the > > installation. In the past three years, I can count on one hand the > > number of times I had to fix things with Bugzilla, Apache, and MySQL > > (Linux based). > > > > In any case, I don't really care if it's Bugzilla, Sourceforge, Trac, > > Jira, or something else. My point is that right now, the current issue > > tracking system could do a lot more to help foster contributions. > > Rather than spending a lot of resources fixing RT, why not use something > > that does a much better job meeting the needs out of the box? > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > If Bugzilla is indeed as easy to maintain as you say, I could volunteer > to take responsibility for it. > > The question of hosting remains. AFAIK, four alternatives have been > proposed over the years: > > freeciv.org > sourceforge.net > icculus.org > seul.org > > Let's go through them: > > freeciv.org: Our own aging servers in Paul's basement. Are they up to > the task? For what it is worth, they are not in my basement, but in a real datacenter. They are old. I do have a little money that has been donated to buy some new ones, but I can no longer host it as I will be in Africa (am actually here now for a few weeks.) I can no longer maintain the servers. > sourceforge.net: The question was if bugzilla could run on SF.net webspace? > icculus.org: IIRC, this was Per's contact. Status? > seul.org: IIRC, this was Egor's contact. Status? > > ~Daniel ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > Daniel Markstedt wrote: > freeciv.org: Our own aging servers in Paul's basement. Are they up to > the task? To be avoided. > sourceforge.net: The question was if bugzilla could run on SF.net webspace? Would be nice. > icculus.org: IIRC, this was Per's contact. Status? > seul.org: IIRC, this was Egor's contact. Status? Is that any better than freeciv.org? What about GNA? To me the biggest issue is carrying over the bug database. Not that this is a show-stopper since it's clear that RT is not going to last forever and the longer we wait the worst the problem there will get - but, as RT is a simple database and bugzilla (or whatever) is a simple database it really shouldn't be too hard to transfer the whole thing over. -jason ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > Requirements a la book, veteran warserver programmer: "Besides being reasonably avaliable, responsive and bugfree, it should be easy to find the answer to such questions as: - What are the most severe bugs and who (if anyone) is working on them? - What is a given user working on right now? - Given my level of programming skill, what can I do to help? - What features are most required/requested? - Who is working on said features? - What is the work history of a given user? - What are all the patchs dealing with a given feature/program component? Oh, and it should not be susceptible to spamming." >From this forum thread (a good read, BTW) - http://forum.freeciv.org/viewtopic.php?t=4200 ~Daniel ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Wed Nov 14 01:54:33 2007]: > > On Sun, 2007-11-11 at 09:07 -0800, Per Inge Mathisen wrote: > > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > > > > On Nov 11, 2007 5:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From the hosting standpoint, if freeciv.org becomes a 401c3, then it > > > could collect donations so that it could pay for its own hosting if it > > > had to. > > > > The problem has always been to find someone who could host it with an > > absolutely minimum of work needed to maintain it from our end. > > > > Registering and maintaining a charity is almost a full time job. > > > > > Has anyone looked into sourceforge? > > > > Last I checked, it could not run bugzilla. > > > > - Per > > > > Hosting Bugzilla is actually very lightweight on time intensiveness from > an administrative perspective. It's now possible to give the ability to > manage individual product configurations to individuals that are not > administrators without giving away the keys to the rest of the > installation. In the past three years, I can count on one hand the > number of times I had to fix things with Bugzilla, Apache, and MySQL > (Linux based). > > In any case, I don't really care if it's Bugzilla, Sourceforge, Trac, > Jira, or something else. My point is that right now, the current issue > tracking system could do a lot more to help foster contributions. > Rather than spending a lot of resources fixing RT, why not use something > that does a much better job meeting the needs out of the box? > > Kevin > > > If Bugzilla is indeed as easy to maintain as you say, I could volunteer to take responsibility for it. The question of hosting remains. AFAIK, four alternatives have been proposed over the years: freeciv.org sourceforge.net icculus.org seul.org Let's go through them: freeciv.org: Our own aging servers in Paul's basement. Are they up to the task? sourceforge.net: The question was if bugzilla could run on SF.net webspace? icculus.org: IIRC, this was Per's contact. Status? seul.org: IIRC, this was Egor's contact. Status? ~Daniel ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] (PR#16811) Issue tracking system for Freeciv
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=16811 > > [esminis - Sun Nov 11 07:30:07 2007]: > > This bug tracking system is very simple and it is hard to track bugs, no > milestones, no SVN view, etc.(or maybe I dont see that as reporter). > > Other bug tracking systems could be used here: > Trac(http://trac.edgewall.org/) - opensource(written in Python) and has > just enough features for most projects, including this > JIRA(http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/) - it is > closesource(written in Java) but free for community & opensource > organizations. JIRA has lots of features, might be too much for this project > And lots of other good bug trac systems... > Merging with an earlier ticket on the same topic. To summarize, the issue has stalled on three issues: 1) Where shall the tracker software be hosted? 2) Who shall maintain the tracker? 3) How can we migrate the bug database? ~Daniel ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
