Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 16, 12:28 pm, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: On Jan 15, 2013, at 7:34 PM, t...@prismnet.com wrote: Do you remember where you got them? Part number? I would dearly like to get some $5 SCA=50 pin adapters with termination. There are a bunch of 2.5 SCSI drives available now in the ~$10 range would would make nice little drives in older machines, if affordable adapters with termination could be found. I just picked some of the cheap ones off ebay from Hong Kong. A little longer shipping, but I see some right now for $2.75 each shipped. So if you are not in a hurry (I seem to remember them taking about 10 days to get to me), they are a pretty good deal. Just search for SCA 50 pin and that will get them. All the ones I see do not have termination. A close examination of the jumpers on the majority of those pictured reveals a jumper for termination power, but none for termination. Also, a close look at the photos indicates that there are no components on the board that could provide termination, even if there were a jumper. For an adapter to have termination, there must be something like resistor packs or small voltage regulators. I want to believe. But so far, I'm not seeing it. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
Hi Len, Thank you - I did track one down for a reasonable price. Not from Hong kong, but close enough - New Jersey :-) At any rate we'll see if the ATTO Express U2 card I picked up does the trick. Thanks again, Dana On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: On Jan 15, 2013, at 7:34 PM, t...@prismnet.com wrote: On Jan 15, 12:13 pm, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: Beiges have onboard 50 pin SCSI. Just get one of the SCA to 50 pin adapters snip Do you remember where you got them? Part number? I would dearly like to get some $5 SCA=50 pin adapters with termination. There are a bunch of 2.5 SCSI drives available now in the ~$10 range would would make nice little drives in older machines, if affordable adapters with termination could be found. I just picked some of the cheap ones off ebay from Hong Kong. A little longer shipping, but I see some right now for $2.75 each shipped. So if you are not in a hurry (I seem to remember them taking about 10 days to get to me), they are a pretty good deal. Just search for SCA 50 pin and that will get them. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-**list.shtmlhttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/**lists/netiquette.shtmlhttp://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/g3-5-list http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 15, 12:13 pm, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:53 PM, t...@prismnet.com wrote: On Jan 13, 4:41 pm, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: Beiges have onboard 50 pin SCSI. Just get one of the SCA to 50 pin adapters and plug into the fully supported onboard scsi on the beige. These adapters are available on ebay for under $5 shipped. I am sure you can easily beat this on the swap list. This adapters are just wiring/plug adapters with no (IIRC) electronic conversions. So they all should work with no compatibility problems. I ran many sca drives in my beiges with those adapters with never any problems. Those cheap adapter do not have any provision for termination, so it may have worked for you, but your SCSI chain was not properly configured, unless you put some other device at the end of the cable to provide termination. I agree with everything else you wrote. Sorry, all the cheap ones I purchased did have a place for a jumper for termination. And I did use multiple SCA drives in my beige G3 tower, 9600 and 9500. Do you remember where you got them? Part number? I would dearly like to get some $5 SCA=50 pin adapters with termination. There are a bunch of 2.5 SCSI drives available now in the ~$10 range would would make nice little drives in older machines, if affordable adapters with termination could be found. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 13, 4:41 pm, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: Beiges have onboard 50 pin SCSI. Just get one of the SCA to 50 pin adapters and plug into the fully supported onboard scsi on the beige. These adapters are available on ebay for under $5 shipped. I am sure you can easily beat this on the swap list. This adapters are just wiring/plug adapters with no (IIRC) electronic conversions. So they all should work with no compatibility problems. I ran many sca drives in my beiges with those adapters with never any problems. Those cheap adapter do not have any provision for termination, so it may have worked for you, but your SCSI chain was not properly configured, unless you put some other device at the end of the cable to provide termination. I agree with everything else you wrote. Also, when using a SCA to 50 pin adapter, the upper 8 bits (18 unused wires) of the wide SCA drive will not be terminated, and while it is rare, this can cause issues too. SCSI voodoo doesn't happen because it fails to work when people configure SCSI properly. SCSI voodoo happens because SCSI often still works even when it is misconfigured, and then when it stops working, folks act puzzled and call it voodoo. If you want this to be properly configured on a 50 pin bus, get SCA to 50 pin adapters which not only have provisions for termination, but which can terminate the upper byte separately from the lower byte. Then terminate the upper byte on all the drives along the chain, except the one at the end of the cable. For that one, set termination for the entire bus. For properly configured SCSI on a 68 pin bus, you can use the cheap, no termination, adapters as long as you provide termination at the end of the SCSI cable in some other fashion. LVD/SE termination blocks for 68 pin cable are commonly available. The only SCA adapters I've seen which actually have a provision for termination are $20+ (Ebay). They should be cheaper, but they're not. There's one on Amazon which has termination in the item title, but the photo shows no circuitry on the board which could be providing termination. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:53 PM, t...@prismnet.com wrote: On Jan 13, 4:41 pm, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: Beiges have onboard 50 pin SCSI. Just get one of the SCA to 50 pin adapters and plug into the fully supported onboard scsi on the beige. These adapters are available on ebay for under $5 shipped. I am sure you can easily beat this on the swap list. This adapters are just wiring/plug adapters with no (IIRC) electronic conversions. So they all should work with no compatibility problems. I ran many sca drives in my beiges with those adapters with never any problems. Those cheap adapter do not have any provision for termination, so it may have worked for you, but your SCSI chain was not properly configured, unless you put some other device at the end of the cable to provide termination. I agree with everything else you wrote. Sorry, all the cheap ones I purchased did have a place for a jumper for termination. And I did use multiple SCA drives in my beige G3 tower, 9600 and 9500. Also, when using a SCA to 50 pin adapter, the upper 8 bits (18 unused wires) of the wide SCA drive will not be terminated, and while it is rare, this can cause issues too. YMMV SCSI voodoo doesn't happen because it fails to work when people configure SCSI properly. SCSI voodoo happens because SCSI often still works even when it is misconfigured, and then when it stops working, folks act puzzled and call it voodoo. Respectfully disagree. Back in the day there were many people with scsi issues on this list that were only using 50 pin narrow and their scsi chain would only work if the devices were on it in a certain order, whether or not they were powered up, and various other problems. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 14, 2013, at 9:12 AM, Bill Connelly wrote: RE: ATTO Configuration Tool:I was trying to remember something about the flashing of an older ATTO SCSI PCI card ... I believe if it is flashed for Tiger, you lose the OS 9 capability. Haven't had time to figure out why I cannot get permissions on my old APPS partition, when I used Migration Assistant to move on into Snow Leopard. So the ATTO apps and readings are on my Dropbox, but I cannot make a link to them. I will start another thread to find out the cause ... or go back to a previous one I remember someone posting a similar problem recently. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: SCSI voodoo doesn't happen because it fails to work when people configure SCSI properly. SCSI voodoo happens because SCSI often still works even when it is misconfigured, and then when it stops working, folks act puzzled and call it voodoo. Respectfully disagree. Back in the day there were many people with scsi issues on this list that were only using 50 pin narrow and their scsi chain would only work if the devices were on it in a certain order, whether or not they were powered up, and various other problems. That's because back in the day a whole lot of cheap-ass SCSI devices did not conform to standards, like my Umax scanner that decided it was ID 2 on ANY scsi bus in the system, not just the one it's on. Iomega was notorious for fubar-ing SCSI. Jeff is correct, in that properly configured, termionated and connected SCSI stuff is very reliable, but leaves out the fact that it was nearly impossible to do that with some devices. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 14, 2013, at 9:12 AM, Bill Connelly wrote: RE: ATTO Configuration Tool: I was trying to remember something about the flashing of an older ATTO SCSI PCI card ... I believe if it is flashed for Tiger, you lose the OS 9 capability. It likely depends on the ATTO card you have. I have a UL2D updated to the latest firmware I could find with two LVD SCSI drives attached in a G4 DA that works great in OS 9 and 10.3.9. However, it does have some problems with 10.4.11. The only firmware upgrades I could find for 10.4.11 were for the UL3D and did not flash to the UL2D. No real problem for me since I use the DA as an OS 9 legacy machine; mainly for old PageMaker files and other outdated software. Generally I think ATTO cards and support -- at least in the old days of SCSI was terrific. -- glen -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 14, 2013, at 12:18 AM, DLC wrote: Thank you, gentlemen, for responding. You're info is helping my memory. Len, I followed yor lead and found a good 80-68-50 SCA adapter on eBay for under $4 shipped, so hurrah! Thank you. Bill, I believe our card at school was indeed an Atto - the only one Digidesign approved for ProTools at that time, iirc. Will check Trish's Hardware Hell; never heard of it :-) Thanks again, Dana Here is some more information about my setup ... which I call my SCSI Mac. Turns out I have 2 SCSI cards in my Yikes! 450MHz G4: I am trying to remember how things are setup ... guessing about the 68 to 80 and 68 to 50 pin adapters and such. One card is for the SCA (I believe it is called) Seagate scsi harddrive and one for my UMAX scsi scanner. Under OS X Tiger 10.4: ATTO, ExpressPCIPro scsi IIRC Internal 68 -- Internal 80 for Seagate SX150176LC 50GB harddrive Vendor ID 0x1000 Device ID 0x000f ROM Revision 1.6.6f0 Revision ID0x0004 ATTO, ExpressPCIProUL3D scsi-2 IIRC Internal 68 -- External 50 for UMAX Astra 2600 Scanner Vendor ID 0x1000 Device ID 0x0020 ROM Revision 1.6.6f0 Revision ID0x0001 I have some software I believe I used called Atto Configuration Tool. I am trying to upload it to my Dropbox, but something is keeping me from providing you with the link … a permissions problem here, since I have recently Migrated to a new computer. Will get back to you on this. Don't have any information about OS 9, but the SCSI cards might work fine under 9 without any additional drivers or firmware updates. All of this is just my best recollection / best guesses ... so, Beware ... and Proceed at Your Own Risk ... : ) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
SCSI issue has arisen
Greetings all, I need some help remembering - a trip down memory lane. I find myself in an unplanned need to access six IBM SCSI-Ultra 320 drives (with SCA interface, so I know an adapter from 68-pin cable to SCA is most likely involved). I seem to recall that I had such a card from either Adaptec or ATTO (or Initio) that addressed such a situation and I ran it off of a beige G3 tower. Does any of that bring up like memories for you? What I needed help in is remembering what cards worked with Macs; regarding legacy, I can go as far back as a beige G3 (desktop) running OS 9, or a Quicksilver running OS X (10.4, or earlier, I have 10.1, 10.2, 10.3). Any remembrances appreciated. Any stores you may know of that would sell adapters would be great as well. Many thanks for any thoughts, Regards, Dana -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
Try Trishes Hardware Hell? On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:56 PM, DLC dlcatft...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings all, I need some help remembering - a trip down memory lane. I find myself in an unplanned need to access six IBM SCSI-Ultra 320 drives (with SCA interface, so I know an adapter from 68-pin cable to SCA is most likely involved). I seem to recall that I had such a card from either Adaptec or ATTO (or Initio) that addressed such a situation and I ran it off of a beige G3 tower. Does any of that bring up like memories for you? What I needed help in is remembering what cards worked with Macs; regarding legacy, I can go as far back as a beige G3 (desktop) running OS 9, or a Quicksilver running OS X (10.4, or earlier, I have 10.1, 10.2, 10.3). Any remembrances appreciated. Any stores you may know of that would sell adapters would be great as well. Many thanks for any thoughts, Regards, Dana -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 13, 2013, at 4:56 PM, DLC wrote: Greetings all, I need some help remembering - a trip down memory lane. I find myself in an unplanned need to access six IBM SCSI-Ultra 320 drives (with SCA interface, so I know an adapter from 68-pin cable to SCA is most likely involved). I seem to recall that I had such a card from either Adaptec or ATTO (or Initio) that addressed such a situation and I ran it off of a beige G3 tower. Does any of that bring up like memories for you? What I needed help in is remembering what cards worked with Macs; regarding legacy, I can go as far back as a beige G3 (desktop) running OS 9, or a Quicksilver running OS X (10.4, or earlier, I have 10.1, 10.2, 10.3). Any remembrances appreciated. Any stores you may know of that would sell adapters would be great as well. Many thanks for any thoughts, Regards, Dana 1) SCSI under X is more Voodoo than it EVER was in 9, so go with the Beige. The slight speed hit of the slower pci slots is MORE than made up for with hair you will keep, and the time for all of your posts here asking for SCSI help. 2) Adaptec cards are my recommendation, if you need a card. Trouble is, if you search by card number (2940 etc) many cards that were not cross platform had the same model number. ie: There were 2940s for PCs and different firmware 2940s for Macs. So be careful. 3) There are many SCA to 68 and 50 pin adapters available. These go directly on the back of the drive then you use a standard 50 or 68 pin cable. Unless you are doing data intensive work, just go with the cheapest setup. AAAGGGHH Durn failing memory... Beiges have onboard 50 pin SCSI. Just get one of the SCA to 50 pin adapters and plug into the fully supported onboard scsi on the beige. These adapters are available on ebay for under $5 shipped. I am sure you can easily beat this on the swap list. This adapters are just wiring/plug adapters with no (IIRC) electronic conversions. So they all should work with no compatibility problems. I ran many sca drives in my beiges with those adapters with never any problems. As to stores, depends what is nearby to you. I only have access to MicroCenters and some small shops near me, but they are expensive $39.99(low turnover, low demand item). But the swap list should be able to get you one in a couple of days. Heck, someone could overnight one to you for less than MicroCenter's price. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
On Jan 13, 2013, at 4:56 PM, DLC wrote: Many thanks for any thoughts, Regards, Dana I believe I have this one in my Yikes! running Tiger IIRC: ATTO ExpressPCI PSC SCSI Controller Card Features: Model # 0042-PCBX-002 Working Pull from a Power Mac G3 External 68-pin Ultra Wide SCSI connector Internal 68-pin Ultra Wide SCSI connector Internal 50-pin Standard SCSI connector Got it off ebay years ago. Also dealt with MC Price Breakers to help solve all my SCSI problems, but I can no longer find them on the net. Maybe out of business by now? Been years. Best of luck. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
Thank you, gentlemen, for responding. You're info is helping my memory. Len, I followed yor lead and found a good 80-68-50 SCA adapter on eBay for under $4 shipped, so hurrah! Thank you. Bill, I believe our card at school was indeed an Atto - the only one Digidesign approved for ProTools at that time, iirc. Will check Trish's Hardware Hell; never heard of it :-) Thanks again, Dana On Sunday, January 13, 2013 4:56:38 PM UTC-5, DLC wrote: Greetings all, I need some help remembering - a trip down memory lane. I find myself in an unplanned need to access six IBM SCSI-Ultra 320 drives (with SCA interface, so I know an adapter from 68-pin cable to SCA is most likely involved). I seem to recall that I had such a card from either Adaptec or ATTO (or Initio) that addressed such a situation and I ran it off of a beige G3 tower. Does any of that bring up like memories for you? What I needed help in is remembering what cards worked with Macs; regarding legacy, I can go as far back as a beige G3 (desktop) running OS 9, or a Quicksilver running OS X (10.4, or earlier, I have 10.1, 10.2, 10.3). Any remembrances appreciated. Any stores you may know of that would sell adapters would be great as well. Many thanks for any thoughts, Regards, Dana -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: SCSI issue has arisen
Hi Bill, I just snagged this very card for a good price from eBay, Apple ROMMed - I cannot remember if I need a driver/extension for this or not. Do you know? ( plan on using OS 9.2.2 unless otherwise determined). Thanks, Dana On Sunday, January 13, 2013 6:55:10 PM UTC-5, billycarmacs wrote: On Jan 13, 2013, at 4:56 PM, DLC wrote: Many thanks for any thoughts, Regards, Dana I believe I have this one in my Yikes! running Tiger IIRC: ATTO ExpressPCI PSC SCSI Controller Card Features: Model # 0042-PCBX-002 Working Pull from a Power Mac G3 External 68-pin Ultra Wide SCSI connector Internal 68-pin Ultra Wide SCSI connector Internal 50-pin Standard SCSI connector Got it off ebay years ago. Also dealt with MC Price Breakers to help solve all my SCSI problems, but I can no longer find them on the net. Maybe out of business by now? Been years. Best of luck. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
