Re: Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS the world about to change continued badly

[Joshua Juran]

On Nov 8, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Dan wrote:


At 12:08 AM + 11/9/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/education/apple-xserve-is-gone-is-os-x-server-next/4321


No.  The world is not about to change due to this.

I don't agree with that article's off-the-wall speculation that Mac  
OS X Server is on the chopping block.  After all, aside from Apple  
providing dumbed-down interfaces, the real difference between the  
two OS releases is basically added open-source stuff.


If it's just the open source parts we're talking about, you can  
install those yourself, either on stock Mac OS X or any other Unix  
system.  Apple's GUI front ends are essentially an application suite,  
and they could be packaged as such instead of bundled as a separate  
operating system.


As far as Apple's killing the XServe hardware,  well, that's pretty  
much the nail in the coffin wrt to keeping Macs in many businesses.   
The trust is waning fast.


The business model of branded product as status symbol doesn't apply  
to businesses.  Sure, they might advertise using only Acme-certified,  
dolphin-safe, home-grown organic widgets if that's what they already  
use, but they're not going to pay extra just so they can make that  
claim.  Likewise, a business isn't going to pride itself on using  
Apple-branded systems -- they tend to use the cheapest thing that works.


Frankly, if you have a rack of servers, what are you doing running on  
each one a window server, much less a compositing window server?  You  
can get better performance running a stripped-down OS like Linux or  
BSD, as well as much better value (since the hardware is cheaper and  
the OS is free).  And if you need just one OS X server, then using a  
tower instead will have minimal impact, assuming you even had a rack  
in the first place.


Apple's "recommendation" of using Mac Mini or Mac Pro are ok if you  
just need a one-off server for a small business and don't care about  
serious hardware/server features.


Agreed.

But for anything else, especially the enterprise?  It's insulting!   
Replacing a 1U blade with a 6U that has NO hardware server features  
- no monitoring, no redundant power supply, and no hot swappable  
anything ???!!! That just doesn't even come close to cutting it.


So, the only thing that cuts it is a blade?  :-)  Then use blades.   
Run an open-source server OS and hire some decent server admins who  
don't need GUI crutches.  Or commission the development of some nice  
administration tools.


I saw today that Jobs gave one his crapo terse email replies, to the  
effect that the XServe just wasn't selling well.


That's a risk that you have to manage.  If you rely on non- 
commoditized products, you're liable to have the rug pulled out from  
under you.  You can't blame Apple for cutting their losses.



Dude, you got a Dell!


I do have a Dell, running Debian GNU/Linux.  With a free OS, the logo  
on the box becomes unimportant.


My clients are budgeted to upgrade their grids in 7 or 8 months.   
Since there will be no Mac hardware appropriate... we're now  
starting the conversion off Mac OS X to FreeBSD, so we'll be able to  
switch to non-Mac blades easily.


Sounds like a happy ending to me.  :-)

Looks like Dell is working with ARM; good potential there for some  
multi-core Cortex based blades!  The new ARM processors will  
reportedly do 40-bit addressing too.  Or maybe we'll go POWER.  I  
donno; haven't really started looking yet.


Uncertainty is normal for the recently emancipated.  ;-)

Josh


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Re: Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS the world about to change continued badly

[Alex]

I don't see this as a bad thing. The Xserve never sold well compared
to the PowerMac G5, Mac Pro, the Mac Mini server and servers like
IBM's Blade servers.It sold to a small market because it was not a
large website server but it wasn't a small file server. Apple will
probably release a newer updated version (remember when Steve Jobs
said he wanted all the Macs to have the name Mac in them?)

On Nov 8, 7:09 pm, Dan  wrote:
> At 12:08 AM + 11/9/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/education/apple-xserve-is-gone-is-os-x-server-next/4321
>
> I don't agree with that article's off-the-wall speculation that Mac OS X 
> Server is on the chopping block.  After all, aside from Apple providing 
> dumbed-down interfaces, the real difference between the two OS releases is 
> basically added open-source stuff.  As far as Apple's killing the XServe 
> hardware,  well, that's pretty much the nail in the coffin wrt to keeping 
> Macs in many businesses.  The trust is waning fast.
>
>
>
> Apple's "recommendation" of using Mac Mini or Mac Pro are ok if you just need 
> a one-off server for a small business and don't care about serious 
> hardware/server features.
>
>
>
> But for anything else, especially the enterprise?  It's insulting!  Replacing 
> a 1U blade with a 6U that has NO hardware server features - no monitoring, no 
> redundant power supply, and no hot swappable anything ???!!! That just 
> doesn't even come close to cutting it.  (Yes, some components in Mac Pro are 
> supposed to be hot swappable - but they're *not* when it's in an equipment 
> rack, where you have to shut it down, remove it from the rack, open it, then 
> play with the hardware...).
>
>
>
> I saw today that Jobs gave one his crapo terse email replies, to the effect 
> that the XServe just wasn't selling well.  HA!  Each time my clients have 
> wanted them over the past few years, they've had to wait more than 30 days to 
> get 'em!  Yea, that's a great way to sell product - have none available.  
> That way only the customers that really really really really want 'em will 
> stick around.  Dude, you got a Dell!
>
>
>
> My clients are budgeted to upgrade their grids in 7 or 8 months.  Since there 
> will be no Mac hardware appropriate... we're now starting the conversion off 
> Mac OS X to FreeBSD, so we'll be able to switch to non-Mac blades easily.
>
>
>
> Looks like Dell is working with ARM; good potential there for some multi-core 
> Cortex based blades!  The new ARM processors will reportedly do 40-bit 
> addressing too.  Or maybe we'll go POWER.  I donno; haven't really started 
> looking yet.
>
>
>
> - Dan.
>
> --- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS the world about to change continued badly

[Dan]

Title: Re: Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS
the worl


At 12:08 AM + 11/9/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
wrote:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/education/apple-xserve-is-gone-is-os-x-server-next/4321

I don't agree with that article's off-the-wall speculation that
Mac OS X Server is on the chopping block.  After all, aside from
Apple providing dumbed-down interfaces, the real difference between
the two OS releases is basically added open-source stuff.  As far
as Apple's killing the XServe hardware,  well, that's pretty much
the nail in the coffin wrt to keeping Macs in many businesses. 
The trust is waning fast.

Apple's "recommendation" of using Mac Mini or Mac Pro
are ok if you just need a one-off server for a small business and
don't care about serious hardware/server features.

But for anything else, especially the enterprise?  It's
insulting!  Replacing a 1U blade with a 6U that has NO hardware
server features - no monitoring, no redundant power supply, and no hot
swappable anything ???!!! That just doesn't even come close to cutting
it.  (Yes, some components in Mac Pro are supposed to be hot
swappable - but they're *not* when it's in an equipment rack, where
you have to shut it down, remove it from the rack, open it, then play
with the hardware...).

I saw today that Jobs gave one his crapo terse email replies, to
the effect that the XServe just wasn't selling well.  HA! 
Each time my clients have wanted them over the past few years, they've
had to wait more than 30 days to get 'em!  Yea, that's a great
way to sell product - have none available.  That way only the
customers that really really really really want 'em will stick
around.  Dude, you got a Dell!

My clients are budgeted to upgrade their grids in 7 or 8 months. 
Since there will be no Mac hardware appropriate... we're now starting
the conversion off Mac OS X to FreeBSD, so we'll be able to switch to
non-Mac blades easily.

Looks like Dell is working with ARM; good potential there for
some multi-core Cortex based blades!  The new ARM processors will
reportedly do 40-bit addressing too.  Or maybe we'll go POWER. 
I donno; haven't really started looking yet.

- Dan.
-- 

- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.





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Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS the world about to change continued badly

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/education/apple-xserve-is-gone-is-os-x-server-next/4321?tag=nl.e550

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Richard Gerome]

   So where is the Wizard??? I would like to visit Oz!!! To see the Lion on a 
new Apple!!!

P.S. This is how they never end...




-Original Message-
>From: Bill Connelly 
>Sent: Oct 27, 2010 10:48 AM
>To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
>
>
>On Oct 27, 2010, at 12:33 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 26, 2010, at 6:53 PM, Ashgrove wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Bill Connelly  wrote:
>>>> Is this thread ever going to end?
>>>
>>> I have been wondering the same thing... :-)
>>
>> "This is the thread that never ends
>>
>> It goes on and on and on, my friends...
>>
>> Someone started writing it not knowing what it was,
>>
>> and they'll continue writing it forever just because,"
>
>... because  because ... because ... because  be-cause ...
>
>because of the wonderful things he does?
>
>-- 
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>Macs.
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Scars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are 
going...

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/25 11:12, John Martz so eloquently wrote:

At the moment the only one I know of is Seagate's Momentus XT which I
understand to be a 7200 RPM 2.5" drive with the traditional 32MB RAM
cache but also a 4GB SSD. The pertinent difference here is probably
not so much the 4GB of SSD but whatever "dynamic caching" algorithms
Seagate has come up with. (I'm just guessing of course).


Today Macworld posted a review of the Momentus XT here:



or here if the above link wraps:



Tina

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Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB 
10.5.8

PowerBook G4 15" Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR 10.5.8

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Joshua Juran]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 6:52 PM, Ashgrove wrote:


On Oct 26, 4:34 pm, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
The only concrete example I can think of is at the Intel  
introduction where Jobs stated that the PowerPC was definitely  
going to be supported through the next OS version, which it was.  
10.4 to 10.5 also took a lot longer than previous iterations of OS  
X. No one official has said anything one way or another about 32- 
bit Intel systems not being supported in 10.7. All we have to go on  
is rank speculation and rampant paranoia.


Probably guilty of both. But I still think it's going to happen.


For what it's worth, every Mac OS X release after 10.2  
"Jaguar" (arguably the first viable release)  has cut off support for  
some systems supported by the previous version.  10.3 "Panther"  
requires built-in USB (i.e. NewWorld), 10.4 "Tiger" requires built-in  
FireWire, 10.5 "Leopard" requires G4 or later, and 10.6 "Snow Leopard"  
requires an Intel processor.  If 10.7 "Lion" supports every system  
supported by its predecessor, it would be the first time a successor  
to a viable OS X release did so.


I'll wager that Lion doesn't support Core Duo systems.

Josh


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 6:53 PM, Ashgrove wrote:


On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Bill Connelly  wrote:

Is this thread ever going to end?


I have been wondering the same thing... :-)


"This is the thread that never ends

It goes on and on and on, my friends...

Someone started writing it not knowing what it was,

and they'll continue writing it forever just because,"


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[admin]

But are the operating system (reaching 64-bit) and computers really  
changing much any more?  They both seem to have matured to me.


On Oct 26, 2010, at 4:34 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

Apple has built and deliberately demolished their business several  
times: Apple II to Mac, Mac OS to OS X (and on to iOS), PowerPC to  
Intel. They even killed one of their most popular products EVER, at  
the very peak of its popularity (the original iPod Nano) to make way  
for the next version


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Jeff Bequette]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:52 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:



On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of  
portable
units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version  
of it:

netbooks.



Netbook sales have crashed since the introduction of the iPad.  
Laptop sales have dominated the industry for several years now.


--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD




I intend to buy an ipad for She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed, Christmas.   no  
3g.  Laptop would be overkill, like buying Granny Bugatti Veryon.  The  
iPad is the perfect appliance for her 'computer' needs.  I look at  
upgrading from current  '04 dpG5 1.8 to a used intel 2.66 or 3 ghz, or  
may just wait till post christmas price drops.  If i bought new, I  
would have to look very hard at the 27" iMac.




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Kris Tilford]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:53 PM, Ashgrove wrote:


Is this thread ever going to end?


I have been wondering the same thing... :-)


"there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion  
forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished"


From:


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Bill Connelly  wrote:
> Is this thread ever going to end?

I have been wondering the same thing... :-)

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 26, 4:34 pm, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> The only concrete example I can think of is at the Intel introduction where 
> Jobs stated that the PowerPC was definitely going to be supported through the 
> next OS version, which it was. 10.4 to 10.5 also took a lot longer than 
> previous iterations of OS X. No one official has said anything one way or 
> another about 32-bit Intel systems not being supported in 10.7. All we have 
> to go on is rank speculation and rampant paranoia.

Probably guilty of both. But I still think it's going to happen.

Felix

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 1:21 PM, Dan wrote:


At 2:02 PM -0600 10/26/2010, James Therrault wrote:

On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is  
booming right now,
not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances  
and the profits

too.


Here's a view of 'puter sales:

http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601


Yea.  3.8% growth is not a boom.  A few more quarters of that and  
those companies will have reorganizations.  Oh, but Americans love  
honking big ugly SUVs!  Lets keep makin 'em!


- Dan.




Heh...  Speakin' of big ugly SUVs, do a search to read about the  
current supertanker surplus and more are a-comin'!


JT




Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc752dc89c2047e7d7st02duc

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 2:17 PM -0600 10/26/2010, Tina K. wrote:
Regardless of the warranty, it will probably be a long time before I 
purchase any sort of aftermarket SSD. I love my thumb drives, but I 
consider them more or less disposable. I expect much more out of a 
long term data storage/retrieval system.


The memory and controllers used to build the thumb drives are cheap 
stuff.  To build a SSD, you gots to use better quality parts.  But 
still, I agree with you... IMO, SSD is nice if you have a definitive 
need for the power savings in a laptop.  But beyond that, eh.  Maybe 
in a year or two when the tech evolves a bit more...


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Dan wrote:

> At 2:02 PM -0600 10/26/2010, James Therrault wrote:
>> On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>>> Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right 
>>> now,
>>> not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the 
>>> profits
>>> too.
>> 
>> Here's a view of 'puter sales:
>> 
>> http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601
> 
> Yea.  3.8% growth is not a boom.  A few more quarters of that and those 
> companies will have reorganizations.  Oh, but Americans love honking big ugly 
> SUVs!  Lets keep makin 'em!

Gotta love that article, attributing the drop in low-end notebook and netbook 
sales to 'sales of the iPad and tablets like it', when were no 'tablets like 
it' shipping at the time.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Swigart, Kurt A [NTK] wrote:

> 
> I think Bruce Johnson missed the point on that last poster.  You're not 
> exercising a sense of entitlement by pointing out that a corporation has 
> abandoned their original core beliefs.

>From where are you getting "Apple's original core beliefs"?  The only such 
>statement I've ever seen is in an interview with Steve Jobs several years ago 
>(I believe it was in Time magazine) which was (paraphrased):

"Our primary goal at Apple is to make the coolest stuff on the planet, our 
secondary goal is to sell enough of that stuff to keep on making the coolest 
stuff on the planet." 

There's NEVER been ANYthing on Apple's part ever about 'avoiding forced 
obsolescence', indeed, given the pace of advancement in the computing industry, 
'forced obsolescence' is a nonsensical term. We have gone, in the space of 40 
years, from crude, character-based 8-bit systems (the Apple II) to what has 
been described as 'one of those cool hand computers you've always seen in those 
sci-fi movies' ; the iPad. 

Apple has built and deliberately demolished their business several times: Apple 
II to Mac, Mac OS to OS X (and on to iOS), PowerPC to Intel. They even killed 
one of their most popular products EVER, at the very peak of its popularity 
(the original iPod Nano) to make way for the next version.

My point about 'sense of entitlement' was about Wallace pretty much demanding 
that Apple make 'a $500 midrange tower with slots and an upgradeable CPU' which 
is something that Apple HAS NEVER MADE. For one, $500 isn't 'midrange' 
anything, it's dirt cheap. 

The only concession they've EVER made to 'cheap' is the Mini. 

>  If I offer to deliver a superior product while promising to avoid the forced 
> obsolescence shenanigans characteristic of my competitors, and then break my 
> promise, you're not displaying an entitlement complex by calling me on it.

When did Apple ever promise that? 

The only concrete example I can think of is at the Intel introduction where 
Jobs stated that the PowerPC was definitely going to be supported through the 
next OS version, which it was. 10.4 to 10.5 also took a lot longer than 
previous iterations of OS X. No one official has said anything one way or 
another about 32-bit Intel systems not being supported in 10.7. All we have to 
go on is rank speculation and rampant paranoia.

Truthfully, beyond hobbyists and specialized cases, there really ISN'T a large 
market for CPU upgrades, add-in cards, etc etc etc. They only flourished when 
Macs were hugely expensive (The G4-450 Sawtooth cost nearly $3300 in today's 
dollars) and Apple could not acquire the improved CPU's in quantity (most 
third-party add-ins were overclocked or part of the small numbers of processors 
that Motorola or IBM could produce that met the higher speed specs.) These 
things add nothing to Apple's bottom line, either.

Microsoft's long been hampered by their inability to engage in the sort of 
creative destruction that Apple does routinely; it's only this week that 
they're finally forbidding their OEM's to stop installing Windows XP. That 
'Long Tail' may suit the kind of corporate office systems that MS targets, but 
Apple has NEVER made any bones about not chasing that market.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/26 13:14, Dan so eloquently wrote:

Why do it that way?  Well, it reduces the number of writes to the flash
memory by quite a bit.  This gives the brick a longer life. ...
Remember, the goal is to make this thing work at least one day beyond
the warranty period.  (Seagate is doing a 5 yr warranty on them, btw).


After reducing the warranties on the Barracuda line from five years to 
three I'm very surprised that they would offer a five year warranty on 
any kind of SSD.


Regardless of the warranty, it will probably be a long time before I 
purchase any sort of aftermarket SSD. I love my thumb drives, but I 
consider them more or less disposable. I expect much more out of a long 
term data storage/retrieval system.


Tina

--

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[iJohn]

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Dan  wrote:
> In fact, many of the hybrid drives are even more limited than I've
> represented in this thread.

WHAT other hybrid drives?? I'd appreciate a pointer towards them
because the only hybrid I'm am aware of at the moment is Seagate's
Momentus XT.

-irrational john

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 2:02 PM -0600 10/26/2010, James Therrault wrote:

On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming 
right now,
not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and 
the profits

too.


Here's a view of 'puter sales:

http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601


Yea.  3.8% growth is not a boom.  A few more quarters of that and 
those companies will have reorganizations.  Oh, but Americans love 
honking big ugly SUVs!  Lets keep makin 'em!


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 8:46 PM +0200 10/26/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote:

 > Not the OS.  The "cache hit" tracking in the device's firmware.  It

 doesn't know files, just block addresses.


Well, I read differently. This was discussed when Windows 7 was introduced.
Apparently it can make use of this functionality and advice the firmware to
hold certain "importaint" files, err, data in in the SDD part of the hybrid
HDD.

What I read is that the operating system can make heavy use of this hybrid
thing, and if it does, it can be very very useful.


No.  There is no special knowledge being exchanged between the OS and 
the hybrid drive.  From the OS' POV the drive is simply a normal hard 
drive.


In fact, many of the hybrid drives are even more limited than I've 
represented in this thread.  The ideal case, as I described, is one 
where the flash memory is used to hold data bi-directionally.  That 
means it speeds reads of data already contained therein.  And it 
speeds writes by accepting the data and telling the OS the operation 
is done -- before the write-through to the HD is completed.  But in 
fact, that doesn't seem to be the case with most of the hybrids on 
the market today! Turns out that most are simply "read" caches with 
no write-through capability.


Case in point: the Seagate Momentus XT.  Outside, this is a (up to) 
500 GB laptop drive, with a 3 Gbps SATA or USB 3 interface.  Inside, 
it has a 32 MB cache and a 4 GB SLC NAND flash bank (SSD), as well as 
the normal 7200 rpm HD mechanism.  The NAND block is ONLY used as a 
*read* cache.  That means that ALL writes to the drive hit the main 
cache only, then go directly to the HD.  The NAND isn't filled until 
you pull off the HD repeatedly, +/- the caching algorithm!


Why do it that way?  Well, it reduces the number of writes to the 
flash memory by quite a bit.  This gives the brick a longer life. 
... Remember, the goal is to make this thing work at least one day 
beyond the warranty period.  (Seagate is doing a 5 yr warranty on 
them, btw).


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:




On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250  
 wrote:

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
From:Dan 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> […]  The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right
> now.  Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make
> those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales  
fall in

> to the toilet!  WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in
> that?

Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming  
right now,
not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and  
the profits

too.

Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of  
portable
units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version  
of it:
netbooks. Even electronic readers are starting to be sold in larger  
numbers.


Here's a view of 'puter sales:

http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601

JT

Mortgage Rates Hit 3.25%
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc725f6f29da4694ccst06duc

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bill Connelly]

Is this thread ever going to end?

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RE: IS the world about to change ?

[Swigart, Kurt A [NTK]]

A friend of mine responded the below and I get the point.

I think Bruce Johnson missed the point on that last poster.  You're not 
exercising a sense of entitlement by pointing out that a corporation has 
abandoned their original core beliefs.  If I offer to deliver a superior 
product while promising to avoid the forced obsolescence shenanigans 
characteristic of my competitors, and then break my promise, you're not 
displaying an entitlement complex by calling me on it.

The problem is proving that abstaining from forced obsolescence shenanigans was 
ever "promised".  Ergo, the aforementioned "marketroid gobbledegook that's 
changeble per the whims of the moment and has no legal standing whatsoever".

It is the epitome of arrogance to position yourself a certain way in the 
marketplace -and earn the trust of your customers by hewing to a certain 
ethical standard, then crap all over the standard and blame your customers for 
being upset about it.



"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." 
Jimi Hendrix
"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens" Jimi Hendrix


-Original Message-
From: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:g3-5-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Bruce Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 1:13 PM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?


On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 
> wrote:
>
>> ------  Original message  --
>> Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
>> Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
>> From:Dan 
>>
>>
>> Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They
>> simply don't need *us* anymore.
>> Us being low-end-Mac owners.
>

> When I do a web search  If I do not see what I want in about 3 pages of
> links I give up because I am exhausted from wading through the mud of
> hypertext. My point is, is anyone here good at this ? At finding documents
> that are hard to find.
>
> If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ?

In the archives of the state in which Apple was incorporated, which is likely 
California. Possibly in the Investor Information on Apple's web site.

>
> Beside turning a profit is mentioned in that charter even, I would assume ir
> says something about how it Apple intends to serve the customers and the
> Nation within which it was founded. Of course charters for other countries
> will follow the customs and requirements there.


No. A corporate charter is a legal document which is 99% boilerplate stating 
who the officers of the corporation are and how the company is set up. There is 
normally zero mention of customers or any mention of the country, other than 
the legal requirement to state the location of incorporation.

What you're talking about sounds like a corporate 'mission statement' which is 
normally just marketroid gobbledegook that's changeble per the whims of the 
moment and has no legal standing whatsoever.

Perhaps old corporate charters for things like the East India Company had such 
stuff in them, but the EIC was being chartered as a quasi-government. They had 
a standing army and navy.

>
> Why should Apple make that machine I mentioned at an affordable price ? And
> why should they avoid business decisions that deteriorate the function and
> the use of machines already sold ?
>
> Because,  if they do not their whole philosophy of purpose and existence
> upon which they were founded and upon which public trust has been based
> becomes a lie.

Call the waaahmbulance for that overinflated sense of entitlement you 
have"Apple must sell me what I want or else they're EVIL!!"

All of Apple's "public trust" is based on one thing, and one thing only: they 
sell things that people happily want to exchange their money for.

They're a company, a commercial venture, selling things that you may or may not 
purchase. They're not a religion, a country, or some deeply engrained social 
construct.

A company, which sells things. No more, no less. If they don't sell you what 
you want, find someone who does, or, failing that, step into the breach 
yourself.

Sell a computer as easy to use, with as well-made an OS, for $500; this is the 
essence of capitalism. Oh yeah, do it without copying their work, because, you 
know, it's *theirs*, no fair cheating...

--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Dienstag 26 Oktober 2010N
From:Dan 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> Not the OS.  The "cache hit" tracking in the device's firmware.  It
> doesn't know files, just block addresses.

Well, I read differently. This was discussed when Windows 7 was introduced. 
Apparently it can make use of this functionality and advice the firmware to 
hold certain “importaint” files, err, data in in the SDD part of the hybrid 
HDD.

What I read is that the operating system can make heavy use of this hybrid 
thing, and if it does, it can be very very useful.

If it doesn't… well, what you said then, you don't gain that much really.


> >FYI, for about the last two months I am now running my G3 B&W from such a
> >CF memory card using an CF-to-IDE adapter.
> 
> Cool.  It will be interesting to see how long the CF card lasts.  Be
> sure to keep good backups.

I do. And yes, it will be interesting. I'll let you know when it breaks.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[JoeTaxpayer]

>From http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107357&p=irol-faq#corpinfo2
Q: What is Apple's mission statement?
A: Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along
with OS X, iLife, iWork, and professional software. Apple leads the
digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple
reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App
Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining
the future of mobile media and computing devices.

You searched the wrong words. Corporate Charter may still be used, but
Mission Statement is the more common term. Although this answer,
above, is a bit underwhelming.

On Oct 26, 12:12 pm, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
 wrote:

> If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ?

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 
> wrote:
> 
>> --  Original message  ------
>> Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
>> Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
>> From:Dan 
>> 
>> 
>> Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They
>> simply don't need *us* anymore.
>> Us being low-end-Mac owners.
> 

> When I do a web search  If I do not see what I want in about 3 pages of
> links I give up because I am exhausted from wading through the mud of
> hypertext. My point is, is anyone here good at this ? At finding documents
> that are hard to find.
> 
> If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ?

In the archives of the state in which Apple was incorporated, which is likely 
California. Possibly in the Investor Information on Apple's web site.

> 
> Beside turning a profit is mentioned in that charter even, I would assume ir
> says something about how it Apple intends to serve the customers and the
> Nation within which it was founded. Of course charters for other countries
> will follow the customs and requirements there.


No. A corporate charter is a legal document which is 99% boilerplate stating 
who the officers of the corporation are and how the company is set up. There is 
normally zero mention of customers or any mention of the country, other than 
the legal requirement to state the location of incorporation.

What you're talking about sounds like a corporate 'mission statement' which is 
normally just marketroid gobbledegook that's changeble per the whims of the 
moment and has no legal standing whatsoever.

Perhaps old corporate charters for things like the East India Company had such 
stuff in them, but the EIC was being chartered as a quasi-government. They had 
a standing army and navy.

> 
> Why should Apple make that machine I mentioned at an affordable price ? And
> why should they avoid business decisions that deteriorate the function and
> the use of machines already sold ?
> 
> Because,  if they do not their whole philosophy of purpose and existence
> upon which they were founded and upon which public trust has been based
> becomes a lie.

Call the waaahmbulance for that overinflated sense of entitlement you 
have"Apple must sell me what I want or else they're EVIL!!" 

All of Apple's "public trust" is based on one thing, and one thing only: they 
sell things that people happily want to exchange their money for.

They're a company, a commercial venture, selling things that you may or may not 
purchase. They're not a religion, a country, or some deeply engrained social 
construct. 

A company, which sells things. No more, no less. If they don't sell you what 
you want, find someone who does, or, failing that, step into the breach 
yourself. 

Sell a computer as easy to use, with as well-made an OS, for $500; this is the 
essence of capitalism. Oh yeah, do it without copying their work, because, you 
know, it's *theirs*, no fair cheating...

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

> Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable 
> units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it: 
> netbooks. 


Netbook sales have crashed since the introduction of the iPad. Laptop sales 
have dominated the industry for several years now.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

> --  Original message  --
> Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
> Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
> From:Dan 
> To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>
> > […]  The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right
> > now.  Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make
> > those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in
> > to the toilet!  WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in
> > that?
>
> Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right
> now,
> not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the
> profits
> too.
>
> Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable
> units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it:
> netbooks. Even electronic readers are starting to be sold in larger
> numbers.
>
>
> Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They
> simply don't need *us* anymore.
> Us being low-end-Mac owners.
>
> ___
>


When I do a web search  If I do not see what I want in about 3 pages of
links I give up because I am exhausted from wading through the mud of
hypertext. My point is, is anyone here good at this ? At finding documents
that are hard to find.

If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ?

Beside turning a profit is mentioned in that charter even, I would assume ir
says something about how it Apple intends to serve the customers and the
Nation within which it was founded. Of course charters for other countries
will follow the customs and requirements there.

Why should Apple make that machine I mentioned at an affordable price ? And
why should they avoid business decisions that deteriorate the function and
the use of machines already sold ?

Because,  if they do not their whole philosophy of purpose and existence
upon which they were founded and upon which public trust has been based
becomes a lie.

That is why.

And you would not want the Happy Mac to be a liar would you ?

Neither should Apple !

Just look at that face !
http://ihnatko.com/wp-content/2008/02/happy-mac.jpg
http://www.tuaw.com/images/2005/11/switcher.jpg



-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 4:55 PM +0200 10/26/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote:

 >interface <-> cache <-> big flash cache organized as a SSD <-> HD.

So, the performance of the SSD is mainly to make valued files, like 
startup files or files which are accessed very often, faster 
available through the SSD.


Yea, sortof.  The firmware in the device would have to be fairly 
clever tho.  And realize that at that point, things are chunk or 
track oriented, not file.



This will speed up the startup process


A pure SSD boot would be faster, yes.  But on a hybrid - I'm thinking 
no... The SSD is only supposed to hold data that is accessed (read or 
written) *frequently*.  Consider that much of the stuff loaded at 
boot is read only once!, then kept in RAM forever (wired memory). 
Because of that infrequent use, I doubt the caching algorithm would 
ever put that data on the SSD.  So... the boot process will be a 
series of SSD cache misses followed by standard latency/seek/read in 
the HD.  Those extra misses will slow things down.


and, as the operating system learns (which files are often 
requested), the daily work. The wearing level
will be not very high in such a scenario, as the files have to be 
updated only now and then, as the software gets updated (security 
fixes and such) or as the user changes his/her working behaviour.


Not the OS.  The "cache hit" tracking in the device's firmware.  It 
doesn't know files, just block addresses.



FYI, for about the last two months I am now running my G3 B&W from such a CF
memory card using an CF-to-IDE adapter. It is slower than with the HDD I used
before, but the advantage is that I can leave it running all the time without
fearing the hard drive will break down - the original HDD was 10+ years old.
It is also much lower noise now. And, I couldn't find a new hard drive that
was 40 GB or so, which I needed since I have a Rev.1 G3 B&W with the buggy IDE
controller.


Cool.  It will be interesting to see how long the CF card lasts.  Be 
sure to keep good backups.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
From:Dan 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> […]  The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right
> now.  Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make
> those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in
> to the toilet!  WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in
> that?

Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right now, 
not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the profits 
too.

Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable 
units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it: 
netbooks. Even electronic readers are starting to be sold in larger numbers.


Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They 
simply don't need *us* anymore.
Us being low-end-Mac owners.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Montag 25 Oktober 2010N
From:Dan 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> At 1:12 PM -0400 10/25/2010, John Martz wrote:
> >If you're going to discuss SSDs versus HDs then I suggest you also
> >consider the relatively recent availability of hybrid SSD-HDs.
> 
> Yea. sigh.  IMO, a stupid stupid idea.

…

> Let's think about this.
> 
> Instead of
>interface <-> cache <-> HD,
> you now have
>interface <-> cache <-> big flash cache organized as a SSD <-> HD.
> 
> Think about that.  The firmware and hardware controllers, to drive
> the simpler design, have been in the field for years and are
> thoroughly debugged.  So now they're adding a massive layer of
> complexity...  How many firmware updates will there be?

…

> Oh, but the performance of SSD!   yea.  heh.  If this is a laptop
> form factor, then you still have the power sucking HD behind things.

I'm only guessing, but I read about these hybrid disk drives. Their intention 
is an honorable one, but I personally also think it will not be a market 
success – and I wouldn't buy one as I think of it as a bad idea.

So, the performance of the SSD is mainly to make valued files, like startup 
files or files which are accessed very often, faster available through the 
SSD. This will speed up the startup process and, as the operating system 
learns (which files are often requested), the daily work. The wearing level 
will be not very high in such a scenario, as the files have to be updated only 
now and then, as the software gets updated (security fixes and such) or as the 
user changes his/her working behaviour.

The other advantage is for mobile computers such as laptops, where the HDD is 
often stopped after a while if no access was required. This can be configured. 
If, while the drive is stopped, the user (or the Auto Save function) wants to 
write a file to the drive, the drive doesn't have to be started right away but 
is written to the SSD instead. This may also be configurable (i.e. only do 
this while on batteries) – AND the data will survive a complete system crash.


So much about the theory.


Problem is –as always with new technologies that require special treatment– it 
has to be supported by the operating system, and maybe also by some 
applications as well.


Another example is the ATA TRIM command for flash memory i.e. also SSDs. Like 
older computers /may/ be able to also use a flash drive (even if it is only a 
CF-to-IDE kind of solid state memory), but without this TRIM command it will 
wear out ealier. I don't know if the TRIM command has to be supported by the 
controller chip (IDE/SATA) or if it is merly sent to the drive by the 
operating system's ATA driver. But what good is it anyway if the operating 
system supporting this new feature doesn't run on older hardware?


FYI, for about the last two months I am now running my G3 B&W from such a CF 
memory card using an CF-to-IDE adapter. It is slower than with the HDD I used 
before, but the advantage is that I can leave it running all the time without 
fearing the hard drive will break down – the original HDD was 10+ years old.
It is also much lower noise now. And, I couldn't find a new hard drive that 
was 40 GB or so, which I needed since I have a Rev.1 G3 B&W with the buggy IDE 
controller.

So, running Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger – how about special flash drive support? No 
way! With now 1 GB of RAM my G3 B&W would handle cashing to the RAM very well, 
thus lowering the wear-out level of the CF card. Linux has such possibilities, 
like mounting all temporary directories to a RAM filesystem (RAM drive). But 
I'm not sure about the mentioned TRIM command, as it may not even be supported 
by the CF card itself. But even if it was, Tiger doesn't support it anyway!


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 25, 2:13 am, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
 wrote:
>  That department has hundreds of Macs of all ages form the early Aught's to
> present. This department was put into a refurbed historic building and is
> state of the art for 3 years ago when it was completed. It replaces the
> building where the famous pisture was taken. You know the one Bruce. ( The
> rest of you can guess. I get tired of talking about it) .

Pray tell. You can't just be mysterious and allude to famous pictures
and get away with it. Spill.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 11:13 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

The ONLY reason our college has Mac support at ALL is me, and it's  
pure

happenstance that I work where I work, because I had some experience
programming, a teensy bit of database experience and a willingness  
to dive
into terra incognita to port the College's financial and alumni  
databases
from Ingres running on a Mini-Vax to a 'modern' Sybsase 4 system  
running on

a HP/Apollo minicomputer.



Sad. no media,journalism,art,music departments? How mundane !


I work at the College of Pharmacy at the University of Arizona. Those  
others are in the College of Arts and Sciences (a new college that was  
just created by jamming together the College of Liberal Arts and the  
College of Sciences as a money-saving move ).


They do have Macs, but the University has had it's state funding cut  
by 40% per student in the last ten years; and while we get to charge a  
special tuition, as a 'professional' graduate college, plus our  
research dollars, music is largely dependent on state funding.  A lot  
of 'ownership' in those colleges, as in 'yer own yer ownership'.


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 1:12 PM -0400 10/25/2010, John Martz wrote:

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:16 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote:
 > I never say never, but I've been watching this industry for nearly 30

 years, and suspect that until and unless SSD cost drops to a lower X
 of HD, both will be there side by side depending on the platform it
 goes in.


If you're going to discuss SSDs versus HDs then I suggest you also
consider the relatively recent availability of hybrid SSD-HDs.


Yea. sigh.  IMO, a stupid stupid idea.

It is akin to partial-hybrid cars, you know, the gas-powered ones 
with electric assist that get lower gas mileage than many of today's 
modern all-gas cars.  A stop gap for the industry to market to 
unsuspecting consumers, while they screw around instead of just 
putting out real hybrids (electric cars with gas assist) in the first 
place.



At the moment the only one I know of is Seagate's Momentus XT which I
understand to be a 7200 RPM 2.5" drive with the traditional 32MB RAM
cache but also a 4GB SSD. The pertinent difference here is probably
not so much the 4GB of SSD but whatever "dynamic caching" algorithms
Seagate has come up with. (I'm just guessing of course).


Let's think about this.

Instead of
  interface <-> cache <-> HD,
you now have
  interface <-> cache <-> big flash cache organized as a SSD <-> HD.

Think about that.  The firmware and hardware controllers, to drive 
the simpler design, have been in the field for years and are 
thoroughly debugged.  So now they're adding a massive layer of 
complexity...  How many firmware updates will there be? And how will 
your data suffer until they're released?  Oh wait - most of these 
devices don't have user updatable firmware!


Oh, but the performance of SSD!   yea.  heh.  If this is a laptop 
form factor, then you still have the power sucking HD behind things. 
If this is a desktop then what exactly will it do for you that a RAM 
Disk couldn't do better?  What happens when things gak before the 
write-through to the SSD then to the HD is completed?


And then there's the problem of the life span of the flash memory 
(thousands of writes, not millions).   Yea.  Let's take a 
high-quality data retention and high re-write life device, and strap 
a lower-quality brick to its forehead.  Sure the brick is faster. 
But it's still a brick.


heh.

- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[John Martz]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:16 PM, JoeTaxpayer  wrote:
> I never say never, but I've been watching this industry for nearly 30
> years, and suspect that until and unless SSD cost drops to a lower X
> of HD, both will be there side by side depending on the platform it
> goes in.

If you're going to discuss SSDs versus HDs then I suggest you also
consider the relatively recent availability of hybrid SSD-HDs.

At the moment the only one I know of is Seagate's Momentus XT which I
understand to be a 7200 RPM 2.5" drive with the traditional 32MB RAM
cache but also a 4GB SSD. The pertinent difference here is probably
not so much the 4GB of SSD but whatever "dynamic caching" algorithms
Seagate has come up with. (I'm just guessing of course).

At any rate, in "a lot" of situations you can get closer to SSD
performance in a HD for ~1.7 to 1.9x the cost of a 7200 RPM drive.  I
expect this price point to drop once the other manufacturer's start
selling their "me too" hybrids.

I expect the next step I'll take towards an SSD for my MacBook is
likely to be in this hybrid direction rather than an actual SSD. I'm
still in the waiting and watching phase at the moment.

-irrational john

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Bruce Johnson  wrote:

>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
>  I took a video project  to the talent's home tonight. They brought out an
>> early Intel Mac laptop.
>> The files were Quicktime. The small resolution overview played fine. The
>> wide screen HQ files were only 1024 wide or so but played haltingly. Yuck!
>>
>> And streaming video off youtube was a joke. I do not mess with the
>> machines
>> of others. But there are 5 year old PCs that would not flinch at this. If
>> it
>> had been my machine I would have been very embarrassed. And Apple should
>> be
>> ashamed.
>>
>>
> Huh? How in the hell should APPLE be embarrassed by something screwed up on
> some random person's laptop? Are you implying that no Apple laptop of
> similar vintage can run streaming video?


Not at all. Am saying this should not happen on any newer Mac. Period.  Did
not say Apple should be embarrassed. I said if it was my machine I would be
embarrassed. and pissed.
At myself to begin with.

>
>
>  An Intel Mac !  And too messed up to cut the mustard. Owned by the wife of
>> a
>> highly placed professor with access to a department IT guy. And Apple Care
>> too boot.
>>
>
>
> Without even SEEING the machine, I'll wager it was a first gen Macbook with
> (places envelope to head a' la the great Karnak) 512 megs of RAM, running
> Tiger.
>

I will inquire tactfully.

>
> And sorry to burst your bubble about 'access to a department IT guy', but
> 90% of the 'department IT guy's out there are MSCE types who couldn't give a
> crap about some professor's laptop.
>

This campus is heavily Mac depending on the department. This prof is from
music. What would and IT in the music building choose. What would music
department heads choose. Do you think after spouting about my class
experiences here for 6 years I would not have some inkling of what choice of
platform various departments would be inclined to make.?
Especially since 6 years ago you had to go 45 miles to find a Mac seller
unless you knew a Mac store was here on campus. That was before all the ads
and the Winblowz Macs.

>
> The ONLY reason our college has Mac support at ALL is me, and it's pure
> happenstance that I work where I work, because I had some experience
> programming, a teensy bit of database experience and a willingness to dive
> into terra incognita to port the College's financial and alumni databases
> from Ingres running on a Mini-Vax to a 'modern' Sybsase 4 system running on
> a HP/Apollo minicomputer.
>

Sad. no media,journalism,art,music departments? How mundane !

>
> At the time we were limited to 4 macs on the network, because that's the
> minimum client pack Novell sold for Macs. In fact I was once officially
> reprimanded for providing Mac support.
>
> ALL of the Mac growth on our systems has come from the ground up, from the
> users, and even with my work, or official policy is 'Mac support is ad-hoc;
> you're mostly on your own'. This is pretty much typical for the vast
> majority of campus IT.
>
> _
>

I talk to our School of Mass Media and Journalism IT director ( saying the
title backwards because I like it that way) several times a week at
Starbucks. he even has a bevy of minions.and sports a straw cowboy hat and
goatee. He is always pleased to talk Macs and kept a Sawtooth on his desk,
not because he had to but because he liked it.

 That department has hundreds of Macs of all ages form the early Aught's to
present. This department was put into a refurbed historic building and is
state of the art for 3 years ago when it was completed. It replaces the
building where the famous pisture was taken. You know the one Bruce. ( The
rest of you can guess. I get tired of talking about it) . the least of them
being iMacs. and ranging to big Mac Pro edit suites and mid range models to
do audio and various chores. "Newsies " mostly get iMacs. But a room full of
FCP machines is awe inspiring as is a RAID just for video of stdents the
size of a cubic yard and a huge room for the building/class servers. Then
there is a separate room for the TV studio. Student run ( There is another
one on campus for the PBS station) Student TV is all Mac and all digital
with an Odrade etc. Only proprietary TV studio systems which require them to
use PCs like the title server have them. All recording from the digital
cameras in the studio is to the highest def HD mac system and it's own huge
server array. Droplets and scripts divide the recordings for archive and
other uses.

There are other macs on Campus., as i said depending on department and usage
. Software APP driven. I hear the 3D CAD and animation departmet ( separate
from all others !) uses Macs. Or at least the Profs. Can't Imaging students
would have different machines as the rooms are configured so the prof can
show software techniques.

But the demand is getting too great for machines. Enrollment is at a record
high and second i

Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Bruce Johnson  wrote:

>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
>  Her use of the conversational alternatives reminds me that were rich text
>> to
>> be legitimized on LEM we could use text formatting such as font or color
>> to
>> intercut and clarify for those who are challenged by comparing the
>> response
>> to the original.
>>
>
> I can tell you've never gotten a 'rich' text email from someone who used a
> font you didn't have and it ends up rendiring as one line of 3-point
> type...or the last entry here 
>
> ->



You mentioned that before Bruce. but you work in a University environment
where people get creative. Out here most people have most of the common
ones. Linux users have even more judging by my Debian variant.( I am a sad
and reluctant Linux user at best)

> -
>
-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

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http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 24, 3:34 pm, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> (in my case: one of each...I never use Dashboard, couldn't live  
> without Spaces).

That makes two of us. I started using Desktop Manager in Tiger before
Leopard even reared its spotted head, and was very grateful when Apple
added the multiple simultaneous desktops to the OS via Spaces. It is a
multitasker's dream come true.

I have Dashboard disabled in all my Macs except my only Intel. I have
zero use for it, other than decoration. But I know people who really
use a lot of widgets all the time, so YMMV.

Felix

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

I took a video project  to the talent's home tonight. They brought  
out an

early Intel Mac laptop.
The files were Quicktime. The small resolution overview played fine.  
The
wide screen HQ files were only 1024 wide or so but played haltingly.  
Yuck!


And streaming video off youtube was a joke. I do not mess with the  
machines
of others. But there are 5 year old PCs that would not flinch at  
this. If it
had been my machine I would have been very embarrassed. And Apple  
should be

ashamed.



Huh? How in the hell should APPLE be embarrassed by something screwed  
up on some random person's laptop? Are you implying that no Apple  
laptop of similar vintage can run streaming video?


An Intel Mac !  And too messed up to cut the mustard. Owned by the  
wife of a
highly placed professor with access to a department IT guy. And  
Apple Care

too boot.



Without even SEEING the machine, I'll wager it was a first gen Macbook  
with (places envelope to head a' la the great Karnak) 512 megs of RAM,  
running Tiger.


And sorry to burst your bubble about 'access to a department IT guy',  
but 90% of the 'department IT guy's out there are MSCE types who  
couldn't give a crap about some professor's laptop.


The ONLY reason our college has Mac support at ALL is me, and it's  
pure happenstance that I work where I work, because I had some  
experience programming, a teensy bit of database experience and a  
willingness to dive into terra incognita to port the College's  
financial and alumni databases from Ingres running on a Mini-Vax to a  
'modern' Sybsase 4 system running on a HP/Apollo minicomputer.


At the time we were limited to 4 macs on the network, because that's  
the minimum client pack Novell sold for Macs. In fact I was once  
officially reprimanded for providing Mac support.


ALL of the Mac growth on our systems has come from the ground up, from  
the users, and even with my work, or official policy is 'Mac support  
is ad-hoc; you're mostly on your own'. This is pretty much typical for  
the vast majority of campus IT.


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:40 PM, John Callahan wrote:

Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about  
"IS the world about to change ?" is and although I have read  
thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer.  
Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the  
Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called "Nannies"  
have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone  
enlighten me please.


Short answer: No.

Longer answer: Yes, because the world ALWAYS changes.

What everyone seems to forget that this was a sneak preview of  
features that were the splashiest. Apple got a load of criticism that  
10.6 was short on features, even though it was a huge upgrade from the  
standpoint of performance and internal, under the hood stuff.


This also represents a integration of iOS elements back into the Mac  
OS. I predict that many of these features will be like Dashboard or  
Spaces: some folks never run them, some folks couldn't live without.  
(in my case: one of each...I never use Dashboard, couldn't live  
without Spaces).


Apple moving to the App Store was a business no-brainer. The longer- 
term implication that all the naysayers immediately leapt to is that  
this will be the ONLY means of getting apps on the Mac despite Job's  
explicit denial of that in the keynote neglects the reason for  
exclusivity in the iPhone apps store: To make sure nothing can screw  
up the basic phone functionality and to ensure that the iPhone doesn't  
crash, something far more important in the limited resource  
environment of the iPhone than the Mac.


Note: the iTunes store is NOT the only place to get video or music for  
the iPod and iPhone.


And no, Apple is not going to reverse itself and backport to the G5's,  
any more than Apple would back port OS X to the 68k (even though it  
originally started there).


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

Her use of the conversational alternatives reminds me that were rich  
text to
be legitimized on LEM we could use text formatting such as font or  
color to
intercut and clarify for those who are challenged by comparing the  
response

to the original.


I can tell you've never gotten a 'rich' text email from someone who  
used a font you didn't have and it ends up rendiring as one line of 3- 
point type...or the last entry here 


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

I took a video project  to the talent's home tonight. They brought out an
early Intel Mac laptop.
The files were Quicktime. The small resolution overview played fine. The
wide screen HQ files were only 1024 wide or so but played haltingly. Yuck!

And streaming video off youtube was a joke. I do not mess with the machines
of others. But there are 5 year old PCs that would not flinch at this. If it
had been my machine I would have been very embarrassed. And Apple should be
ashamed.

An Intel Mac !  And too messed up to cut the mustard. Owned by the wife of a
highly placed professor with access to a department IT guy. And Apple Care
too boot.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 9:40 PM, John Callahan wrote:

> (snip)
> Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about "IS the
> world about to change ?" is and although I have read thousands of comments
> about the subject failed to receive an answer. Either no one knows or I have
> somehow done something to offend the Lords of the Manor (I know that the
> ones formerly called "Nannies" have a new title but don't remember what it
> is). Would someone enlighten me please.
>  John Callahan
>

First I heard about your plaint and i am the original poster. If and lords
of the manor are offended I am first on their s*it list.

The title subject headlined a one word post symbolizing the dilemma.

The word was " Lion?" and was an interrogatory as to the ramifications a new
OS VERSION
as opposed to an incremental upgrade. As the last incremental upgrade has
had people scrambling to adapt non supported hardware for a year. What
torture and suffering will Lion bring. whose machine will not boot anymore.
And will Apple let Tiger run or break it mercilessly  to send users to the
Apple store tearfully submitting all forms of plastic credit?

And on top of that and implied in the title were other announcements by The
Steve as to what new edicts will be imposed. As well as a day or so before
the pronouncements about the i world pocket enslavement system and the
superiority of that to the open source Android  free world devices which are
the hopes of the opposers to The Steve.

Even though his humble beginnings were with the rebels he now renounces
those fallacious doctrines and ridicules the codes they engender.

The former list nannies ( I still call them that) are now given the title "
Most Celestial Servants of the Mac Mother " Meetings are on alternate
Tuesdays in the hall behind the rectory.

I tried to



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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Powermac]

Still have that 8500 case and the machine works great, but I have
moved on to a G4 1.25Ghz Quicksilver for my fastest hobby mac (I am
still a PC user for boring work related stuff). While I don't use the
8500 daily like I used to, that machine has been 100% reliable using
the same components I purchased for it back in 2001. Maybe I am lucky
but my hardware (even the ancient stuff) just seems to work forever,
my issues tend to be brittle plastics (cosmetic). Few computer shops
make money around here, mostly they just fix stuff other people can't
be botherd to do (and mostly software). I feel sorry for owners who
take machines to a shop to get them fixed at $50 a pop and the tech
there is as bumb as a brick mindlessly swapping things until the
machine stays on for 30 minutes then charging crazy money for cheap
(and sometimes very used) parts. Its no wonder people just buy new all
the time.

My opinion is too many people want to make money sitting at home
creating content with a computer (and willing to do it for next to
nothing undercutting people with real talent). Many people would be
much better off not going to college and learning a trade. People will
allways need their roofs redone, plumbing fixed, oil changed, etc.

On Oct 23, 2:25 pm, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
 wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac  wrote:
> > Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
> > stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
> > work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
> > tools and using google to find fixes.
>
> Teo,
>
> How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS
> fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize
> how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that
> is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money
> part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly
> enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you
> want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You
> Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have
> made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.
>
> I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you a
> little shop on the corner.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[John Callahan]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Dan wrote:


GUI


A graphical user interface (GUI), often pronounced gooey,[1] is a  
type of user interface that allows users to interact with programs in  
more ways than typing such as computers; hand-held devices such as  
MP3 players, portable media players or gaming devices; household  
appliances and office equipment with images rather than text  
commands. A GUI offers graphical icons, and visual indicators, as  
opposed to text-based interfaces, typed command labels or text  
navigation to fully represent the information and actions available  
to a user. The actions are usually performed through direct  
manipulation of the graphical elements.


Thanks Dan.

John Callahan
jcalla...@stny.rr.com
If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went.
--Will Rogers
extreme positive = (ybya2)

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 5:40 PM -0400 10/23/2010, John Callahan wrote:
Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about 
"IS the world about to change ?" is and although I have read 
thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer. 
Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the 
Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called "Nannies" 
have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone 
enlighten me please.


Now is the time for panic.  Yes, the world is changing.  Apple is 
preparing a new version of OS X that will include new GUI stuff. 
Shock!  Horrors!  New GUI!  OMG!  Worse yet, it turns out that when 
Lion is released, the flux capacitors in your old Macs will implode 
-- leaving you nothing but burned out hulks.


Times are bad.  Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone 
is writing a book.

  ...Marcus Tellius Cicero, statesman/orator/writer, (106-43 B.C.)

- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[John Callahan]

(snip)
Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about  
"IS the world about to change ?" is and although I have read  
thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer.  
Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the  
Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called "Nannies"  
have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone  
enlighten me please.

John Callahan
jcalla...@stny.rr.com
If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went.
--Will Rogers
extreme positive = (ybya2)

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/20 12:55, Kris Tilford so eloquently wrote:

I went to the Apple site to watch the streaming video of the
presentation and was rudely greeted with this:

"Streaming video requires Safari 4 or 5 on Mac OS X Snow Leopard or
Safari on iOS 3 or later."

I'm on a PPC G5 with 10.5.8 and current Safari v. 5.0.2 (5533.18.5) and
I CAN'T see the streaming video because it REQUIRES Snow Leopard 10.6!!!

Sometimes Apple is so insane.


Strangely enough I'm now watching the presentation on my G5 PM in 
OmniWeb no less. Perhaps someone screwed up the system requirements?


Tina

--

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Dan  wrote:

> At 6:25 PM + 10/23/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
>  On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac wrote:
>> Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
>> stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
>> work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
>> tools and using google to find fixes.
>>
>> Teo,
>>
>> How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS
>> fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize
>> how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that
>> is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money
>> part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly
>> enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you
>> want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You
>> Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have
>> made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.
>>
>> I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you
>> a little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more satisfying for
>> me. And a lot less
>>
>> The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
>> need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
>> PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
>> usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
>> base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
>> because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
>> who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
>> go low end.
>>
> [snip]
>
> Why can't people quote properly?  Read the above.  It makes little sense.



I just read an intercut personal message from a friend.

Her use of the conversational alternatives reminds me that were rich text to
be legitimized on LEM we could use text formatting such as font or color to
intercut and clarify for those who are challenged by comparing the response
to the original.

And in so doing plain texters could still read the posts. And LEM would make
a long delayed 20 year leap in what is allowed.



-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Dan  wrote:

> At 6:25 PM + 10/23/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
>  On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac wrote:
>> Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
>> stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
>> work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
>> tools and using google to find fixes.
>>
>> Teo,
>>
>> How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS
>> fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize
>> how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that
>> is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money
>> part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly
>> enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you
>> want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You
>> Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have
>> made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.
>>
>> I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you
>> a little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more satisfying for
>> me. And a lot less
>>
>> The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
>> need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
>> PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
>> usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
>> base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
>> because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
>> who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
>> go low end.
>>
> [snip]
>
> Why can't people quote properly?  Read the above.  It makes little sense.
>
>
> ___

I use the gmail client online. if you used it you would know how hard it is
( despite much trying) to intercut a conversation and eliminate the
attribution line. The web app has a mind of it's own. And I get tired of
fighting it.

As was said to me bluntly before by someone :) GET over it!










-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 6:25 PM + 10/23/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac wrote:
Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
tools and using google to find fixes.

Teo,

How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you 
say WAS fine until you actually try to make some money with them. 
Then you realize how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is 
wasted in a machine that is still problem fraught and unproductive.I 
guess the trying to make money part and the been doing that for way 
too long parts were not stated loudly enough. Hobbyist work arounds 
are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you want to CREATE the 
constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You Know me from 
this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have made 
myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.


I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may 
get you a little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more 
satisfying for me. And a lot less


The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
go low end.

[snip]

Why can't people quote properly?  Read the above.  It makes little sense.

- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/20 10:50, john Carmonne so eloquently wrote:

On Oct 20, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Fluxstringer wrote:


Lion ?


Will Lion be compatible with PPC G5?


Don't we wish. On second thought, maybe not.

Tina

--

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac  wrote:

> Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
> stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
> work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
> tools and using google to find fixes.
>

Teo,

How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS
fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize
how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that
is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money
part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly
enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you
want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You
Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have
made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.

I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you a
little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more satisfying for me.
And a lot less

>
> The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
> need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
> PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
> usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
> base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
> because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
> who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
> go low end.
>
> Preaching to the choir. But if The Steve remembers his anarchist hacker
roots and has any empathy for the struggling masses and any belief at all in
the bootstrap ability of  low end capitalism ( a theory we do not hear the
Chamber of Commerce preaching anymore, WHY ?) he would put out a $ 500
upgradeable,expandable Mac Mid Tower just to put his philosophy in the right
place. And do not tell me it would be at a loss. It is all established tech.
the development is already accomplished. Such a unit could be produced more
easily than a button can be designed for an iPad app. And would sell like
hotcakes.

If other companies can see to the development of reading and communication
for the third world why can't Apple throw a sop to the aspiring capitalist
bootstrappers? I do not think this is asking too much from The Steve.

And the good will and further consumer loyalty would bring returns for
decades. I don't care anymore if a system bought new is only viable for a
year or at the outside two ( horrific statement for a boomer right?) as long
as I have made enough money to replace it. Corporations want a steadier
cash-milk flow? Then let them provide an entry point to the dairy that is
not so damned a big step at the bottom. As long as the milk is good and
healthy what does the dairyman care about the size of the cow? ( content
creators know Creative Cow analogies very well !) Apple has fostered content
providers for decades and been rewarded well. Let them continue to be
supportive. And without the need to gouge the teats. Smaller gentler demands
will keep content creators working. And they are still a goodly portion of
Apple customers.



> The only people I know who make money with computers seem to be the
> people who repair them for others who have no clue. Most people make
> money with skills, computers are just tools and recently just media
> devices.
>
> I'm sad you do not know any content creators. Not even a guy next door
editing his band footage?  Or an uncle in an attic trying to make the
perfect porn compilation! Youngstown University must have some classes and
coffee shops. Tusc campus of KSU too. Some campuses even have Apple stores
to get the tools into the hands of students with mom-dad or otherwise clean
credit records and no qualms about the costs as they have no idea how
insanely hard it is to make a dollar. I know several here who now know.
Years after graduation with a G4 'book they are paying off and a pile of
student loan notices in the drawer. Some even sold their 'books or Minis for
the price of a few pitchers of Goose Island and a lap dance. But this is a
town where big careers have been made in media by a lucky few and anyway
Macs go where the hype industry goes.



Recently just media devices? Andy Warhol did a portrait at the Amiga
inception in what 1985? Todd Rundgren did a self made animated music video
on an Amiga back then too. Oh, yeah, you mean for " recently just media
devices for users of other platforms. I keep forgetting the dichotomy. But
you are right, computers are just tools. And if Stanley priced their hammers
and other tools  like Apple prices computers far fewer carpenters could ply
those skills.

>
-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.y

Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/20 17:03, Eric Herbert so eloquently wrote:

This sounds awful since I've been an Apple user since birth (Parents
bought their first Apple 2 weeks before I was born!) but if Apple
goes ahead with this "kindergarten" approach they show on Lion, I may
consider running Windows.


Don't do it, there's always linux! ;-)

Tina

--

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 6:55 AM -0700 10/23/2010, Powermac wrote:

Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems.


Back in the 68k and PPC days, "low end" to me was any Mac not 
current.  These days, "low end" to me is all 68k and PPC Macs, plus 
all Macs with x86 processors - current and previous.


The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they 
need to make money.


True, to a point.  In this economy Macs are doing well while PCs are 
floundering -- so there must be something more to it.  Selling only 
poorly made SUVs, in this decade, is perhaps not a great idea.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Powermac]

Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
tools and using google to find fixes.

The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
go low end.

The only people I know who make money with computers seem to be the
people who repair them for others who have no clue. Most people make
money with skills, computers are just tools and recently just media
devices.

On Oct 23, 1:51 am, Richard Gerome  wrote:
> >From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 
> When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg and 
> McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches 
> whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired , tired, tired i say. ( and the shouting 
> masses behind me) I want an affordable mac that will do the job and be 
> upgradeable in increments as I can afford them.
> At one time a used 7xoo filled that need. but the old clunker hasn't the 
> horsepower to pull the tall gears of modern software even slowly.
> And saying it again for the upteenth time, Apple now actively working to 
> break the balls of even much more recent machines demoralizes troupes more 
> well heeled than I. so what chance do I have?
> Being poor does not seem to translate well even on Low End Mac pages ( If 
> they are so poor why do they have or want computer? (TO USE AS TOOLS TO MAKE 
> MONEY SO THEY WONT BE SO DAMNEDLY POOR !  THAT'sWHY !) [apologies to the 
> sensitive. But one needs to shout when communications are not heard.
> LOW END to me means poor.
> People too poor to afford new computers.
> People too poor to afford costly repairs.
> People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.
> If poor is not translatable then NEW END Mac would be a good place rather 
> than being tortured by the rants of the relatively indigent.
> Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Asking Apple for some GD slack is more 
> like it. Asking The Steve for a crumb from the table. Appealing to his 
> beginnings.
> Get it ?
>  
>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; 
> fluxstringerfluxstrin...@gmail.comhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringerhttp://www.facebook.com/FluxStringerhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunicationshttp://flux-influx.blogspot.com/http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.comhttp://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>   
>  
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power 
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is athttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our netiquette 
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> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group 
> athttp://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-listScars only tell us where we have 
> been, they do not have to dictate where we are going...

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Stephen Conrad]

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Sarge3041969 wrote:

>  I am kinda
> wondering what
> we are supposed to do with all of these old Macs now that Apple has
> deemed
> them as useless? Maybe they will go the way of the old Mac Classics
> with
> everyone trying to make aquariums out of them?


Strongest Mac project!
Anyone else remember that? They used Classic and Color Classic Macs


> LOL Heck with them and
> their
> wallets, I will run My G4 until they stop selling electricity.
>

I am on my G4 now. My Smurf and 8600/200 are on the desk as well, just not
urned on at the moment.

Nearly every old Mac I have still runs great. I think only 3 Pluses, t he
5260/100 & the 5400/180 need to be worked on. O yes, the IIcx needs to have
RAM installed

>
>


-- 
Steve Conrad
Henrietta, MO 64036

"The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go
forth and claim our place in outer space."
   - Capt. Henry Gloval


(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Help Bunny Take Over The World!

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 22, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:




On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:59 PM, glen  wrote:




	The make do's is what what life is about. Since I done the do's  
all my life (not
	just computers) , I don't know what I would do without them.  -- 
Seriously

consider it; they make  life worthwhile.

Evidently "When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work  
arounds, Goldberg and
McGivering get very old and tiresome." mean nothing to you. 64  
years of it means  I'm SICK of it to me.


Same here.  The same ol' thing just gets old.  Gotcha beat by six years!


	I have lost two loved one's during the last year (stroke and  
cancer) and going
	though that  makes you really wonder what is important on this  
planet.


	OK "fear Apple" is a bad choice of words; "don't care"  would have  
been better

choice of words.

	As far "poor" goes, I just received my first meager SS check this  
month. Still
	wonder if I can pay the heating bills. I live in New England.  
Sorry if I set you

off. I do appreciate your concerns.  --glen

PS rants are OK by me --well within reason. -- ;)

Fair enough Glen. Hope you find a way to supplement your income.


Eventually, inflation, (year it's there everytime you visit the  
supermarket), will work you into the poor farm.




But The Steve only wants to help the already affluent.


Another poster a couple of days ago suggested bringing back Wozniak  
for creativity.  I think that Jobs is the creative one whereas Woz  
was the technical wiz kid.  At any rate, ol' Steve has moved  
innovation into the marketing arena and has lost touch with what  
Apple used to be all about...


JT



Go Back to School
Grant Funding May Be Available to Those Who Qualify
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc2c452ef7e03d1d87st04duc

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Richard Gerome]

Hey Wallace, Well said!!! I started out with a 1993 Performa 475 I bought used in 1996, it had a modoem you had to put your phone on to get online back then and sometimes it would take as long as 3hrs... I wasn't able to get a new one till Sears closed out their Apple Computers and sold them for 1/2 price in 2001 I bought my first and only brand new G3 366 Indigo Clamshell, paid $1100 after taxes for it and I am still using it after reworking it to get it to run Tiger now!!! I bought a used G4 1G processor and 1G memory TiBook in 2008 for $300 in a little beatup condition from craigslist and after checking ebay for parts to bring it back to new condition and tricking it out with faster HD and Super Dive and brandnew screen for another $225 I am almost ready to run Leopard on it, I just got a Disc tonight for $20 but I think I will run Tiger for as long as I can before I install it!!! The Clamshell, I use out on the road in coffee shops and such and it still atracts a lot attn from people and they can't believe I'm running Tiger in it and using my Sprint Broadband even though Sprint says I need 750 processor, it only has 466mhz with 576mb!!! Us poor people have to get creative and keep them going, I have some serious health issues and the computer has helped me out a lot with them for the past 11yrs so I will do what ever I can to surf the net!!!  Thanks to this group and other web surfing I can do a lot with my old computers now!!!   One thing I have learned about the Apple people today is they are starting to use there technoligy like a drug (Tech Pushers)... My computer is not a toy like others with their iPhones, iPods, iPod Touches and iPads... How can they go online with one of them anyway??? I can't even see the screens let alone whats on them...P.S. Oh yeah my car is 22yrs old with almost 350,000 miles on it with original eng and trans!!! Still gets me all over the country pulling a 19' 1966 Avion camper!!!-Original Message-
From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 
Sent: Oct 22, 2010 11:22 AM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:48 PM, glen <glenst...@yahoo.com> wrote:




>
>From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <fluxstrin...@gmail.com>

When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg and McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired , tired, tired i say. ( and the shouting masses behind me) I want an affordable mac that will do the job and be upgradeable in increments as I can afford them. 

At one time a used 7xoo filled that need. but the old clunker hasn't the horsepower to pull the tall gears of modern software even slowly.And saying it again for the upteenth time, Apple now actively working to break the balls of even much more recent machines demoralizes troupes more well heeled than I. so what chance do I have?

Being poor does not seem to translate well even on Low End Mac pages ( If they are so poor why do they have or want computer? (TO USE AS TOOLS TO MAKE MONEY SO THEY WONT BE SO DAMNEDLY POOR !  THAT'sWHY !) [apologies to the sensitive. But one needs to shout when communications are not heard.

LOW END to me means poor.People too poor to afford new computers.People too poor to afford costly repairs.People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.If poor is not translatable then NEW END Mac would be a good place rather than being tortured by the rants of the relatively indigent.

Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Asking Apple for some GD slack is more like it. Asking The Steve for a crumb from the table. Appealing to his beginnings.Get it ? -- 

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringerfluxstrin...@gmail.comhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/

http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringerhttp://www.facebook.com/FluxStringerhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications

http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/     



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Scars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are going...



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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Chance Reecher]

I like the way everyone keeps complaining about not being able to watch 
the Keynote... Apple does have an H.264 "Apple Events" podcast in 
iTunes, you know.


On 10/22/10 8:36 PM, Jeff Bequette wrote:


It was kinda annoying I could watch the speech on the iPhone, but not 
on my Mac...


Jeff




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:59 PM, glen  wrote:

>
>
>
> >
> >From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 
>
>
> When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg
> and
> McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver
> headaches
> whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired ...
>
> LOW END to me means poor.
>
> People too poor to afford new computers.
> People too poor to afford costly repairs.
> People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.
>
> Fear Apple? That is not the subject.
> Get it ?
>
> -
>
> Nah,
>
> The make do's is what what life is about. Since I done the do's all my life
> (not
> just computers) , I don't know what I would do without them.  --Seriously
> consider it; they make  life worthwhile.
>
>
Evidently "When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds,
Goldberg and
McGivering get very old and tiresome." mean nothing to you. 64 years of it
means  I'm SICK of it to me.

>
> I have lost two loved one's during the last year (stroke and cancer) and
> going
> though that  makes you really wonder what is important on this planet.
>
> OK "fear Apple" is a bad choice of words; "don't care"  would have been
> better
> choice of words.
>
> As far "poor" goes, I just received my first meager SS check this month.
> Still
> wonder if I can pay the heating bills. I live in New England. Sorry if I
> set you
> off. I do appreciate your concerns.  --glen
>
> PS rants are OK by me --well within reason. -- ;)
>

Fair enough Glen. Hope you find a way to supplement your income.

But The Steve only wants to help the already affluent.




>  --
> >Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
> >
> >fluxstrin...@gmail.com
> >
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> >http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> >http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> >http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> >http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> >http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com/
> >http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> >You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those
> >
> >using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
> >The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette
> >guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> >To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> >For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
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> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Jeff Bequette]

On Oct 22, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Dan wrote:


At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is


I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad.

People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery  
life.  Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power  
pig.  So replacing it with SSD makes sense.


WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel  
parts - so they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3  
years or so.  For the *average* user that is overstocked with RAM,  
paging to the SSD will be minimal.  And since those users only do a  
trivial amount of photo editing...  probably the SSD will be ok, at  
least for the life of their AppleCare contract.



At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the  
thread about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and  
hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the  
NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor people concerned  
about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their S*it!
SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you  
indigent B77tard!


The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part  
of Lion's "standard" environment.


Threads drift.  Get over it.

- Dan.
--


for my 2 cents, after using an iPhone and my kids newer Macbook Pro, I  
like the finger sweep and find myself sometime reaching to the screen  
to enlage items with the finger spread.  Of course soon realize  
doesn't work with this mac.  As for keeping up with the Jones's I have  
a 2004 DP G5 1.8 that has reached its system limit, but still does  
everything I need it to do.  I am debating upgrading  to a (used) 2009  
Mac Pro to keep up my kids (Daddy! it won't work!) but am willing to  
wait while the dust settles from the latest announcements.  It was  
kinda annoying I could watch the speech on the iPhone, but not on my  
Mac...


home user with a few thumb drives, SSD cards and older macs.

Jeff


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[glen]

>
>From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 


When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg and 
McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches 
whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired ...

LOW END to me means poor.

People too poor to afford new computers.
People too poor to afford costly repairs.
People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.

Fear Apple? That is not the subject. 
Get it ?

-

Nah,

The make do's is what what life is about. Since I done the do's all my life 
(not 
just computers) , I don't know what I would do without them.  --Seriously 
consider it; they make  life worthwhile. 


I have lost two loved one's during the last year (stroke and cancer) and going 
though that  makes you really wonder what is important on this planet.

OK "fear Apple" is a bad choice of words; "don't care"  would have been better 
choice of words.

As far "poor" goes, I just received my first meager SS check this month. Still 
wonder if I can pay the heating bills. I live in New England. Sorry if I set 
you 
off. I do appreciate your concerns.  --glen

PS rants are OK by me --well within reason. -- ;)









 -- 
>Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
>fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com/
>http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>   
>  
>
>
-- 
>You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
>those 
>
>using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
>The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
>guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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>For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>


  

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Doug McNutt]

At 17:38 + 10/22/10, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote, or perhaps quoted 
someone:
I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad.

*** From a recent question posted on the AppleScript mailing list - which I 
trimmed quite a bit.

I've written a pretty extensive Quicktime editing script.. Everything works 
when I run the app just fine, I can select one or several source movies with my 
choose file with prompt.., etc, the script just chunks along happily.

I can't drop files onto the app. Dragging a QT movie does't activate the app in 
the finder, it doesn't select, nothing.

*** An answer from a knowledgeable regular poster:

Try saving the script in a new app file, and make sure you don't remove the 
.app extension.

And that's in a current Apple OS X system that is still declared "UNIX 
underneath". It comes from Next, Inc. which was likely unable to use 
Apple-patented ideas before Apple bought it.

UNIX does not now, and never has, used filename extensions in the OS. They are 
sometimes used by applications, such as gcc, but never required. Executable 
files are distinguished by an x in the permissions.

Apple was once proud of its freedom from required filename extensions. The 
really good idea was a file system that handled resource forks and type/creator 
codes. That AppleScript application should have type APPL and a unique creator 
code maintained in the file system. The codes would be initially in a BNDL 
resource for use by an installer or first use.

How in the world can we have regressed so far? Applications are not recognized 
by Finder so they can have files dropped on them unless they have a .app 
extension in the name of the file? How DOS can you get?  Can DOS-like be 
responding to customer desires? That is a "bad" customer desire, dammit.

The OS NeXt finder has to be told to show filename extensions which are hidden 
by default. Is that consistent with requiring extensions? In 10.3 .app 
extensions are not shown even if you ask for them.

But then, my AAPL is doing fine, thank you.
-- 

-->  Halloween  == Oct 31 == Dec 25 == Christmas  <--

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Illirik Smirnov  wrote:

> This is the reason that I really don't care about new Apple products.
> I use what I use, and when something of mine breaks I look for the
> thing that does what it used to do in the nicest, cheapest, and
> fastest way possible. New apple products don't do things that my old
> Apple (and other manufacturers) products do faster, nor nicer, nor
> cheaper.
>

Illrik

When Apple's changes effect that use of your old Mac you will know it. And I
think that will be soon if you do much work on it and it calls home.


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Dan  wrote:

>  At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
> Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not the
> fact that I was inspired by " LION" and Apple/Jobs going deep to the dark
> side is what this is about
>
>
> I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad.
>
> People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery life.
> Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power pig.  So
> replacing it with SSD makes sense.
>
> WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel parts - so
> they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years or so.  For the
> *average* user that is overstocked with RAM, paging to the SSD will be
> minimal.  And since those users only do a trivial amount of photo
> editing...  probably the SSD will be ok, at least for the life of their
> AppleCare contract.
>
>
> At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
> Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
> about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
> enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much
> more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money
> if Apple keeps up their S*it!
>
> SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
> B77tard!
>
>
> The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part of
> Lion's "standard" environment.
>
> Threads drift.  Get over it.
>
> - Dan.
>
>

Yeah talk about drives are THAT important.  Fiidling while Rome burns. The
sky is falling and I am looking for opinions of how fast and what the impact
radius of these Apple dictates changes might be and you want to remark in
the color of the dust.
Sure go ahead. No way I can stop you.

Talk about a figure - ground schism! Sheesh!

Even after someone tried to spin off the drive discussion in a courteous LEM
user term compliant way.

I can get over top posting. But thread hijackers and thread invaders still
piss me off.
Get over it.






-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Illirik Smirnov]

This is the reason that I really don't care about new Apple products.
I use what I use, and when something of mine breaks I look for the
thing that does what it used to do in the nicest, cheapest, and
fastest way possible. New apple products don't do things that my old
Apple (and other manufacturers) products do faster, nor nicer, nor
cheaper.

On 10/22/10, Dan  wrote:
> At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not the
>> fact that I was inspired by " LION" and Apple/Jobs going deep to the dark
>> side is what this is about
>
>
> I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad.
>
> People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery life.
> Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power pig.  So
> replacing it with SSD makes sense.
>
> WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel parts - so
> they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years or so.  For the
> *average* user that is overstocked with RAM, paging to the SSD will be
> minimal.  And since those users only do a trivial amount of photo
> editing...  probably the SSD will be ok, at least for the life of their
> AppleCare contract.
>
>
> At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>>
>> Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
>> about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
>> enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc.
>> Much more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make
>> money if Apple keeps up their S*it!
>>
>> SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
>> B77tard!
>
>
> The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part of Lion's
> "standard" environment.
>
> Threads drift.  Get over it.
>
> - Dan.
>
> --
>
> - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>


-- 
Sent from a computer running either the SPARC, Itanium, or PowerPC architecture.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

Title: Re: IS the world about to change
?


At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
wrote:
Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what
this thread is about and not the fact that I
was inspired by " LION" and Apple/Jobs going deep to the
dark side is what this is about

I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or
bad.

People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery
life.  Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power
pig.  So replacing it with SSD makes sense.

WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel
parts - so they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years
or so.  For the *average* user that is overstocked with RAM,
paging to the SSD will be minimal.  And since those users only do
a trivial amount of photo editing...  probably the SSD will be
ok, at least for the life of their AppleCare contract.


At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
wrote:
Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can
do with your turning the thread about the complexities of Apple going
to the dark side and hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD
versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor
people concerned about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their
S*it!

SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics
don't you GET it you indigent B77tard!

The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG
part of Lion's "standard" environment.

Threads drift.  Get over it.

- Dan.
-- 

- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.





-- 
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>


 On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
 fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta 
> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
>> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
>> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
>> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
>> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a
>> well-
>> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>>
>> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
>> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>>
>> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
>> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
>> 
>>
>
>
> Uh, will they run LION ?
>  _
>


 Frickin' DUH !

>
> -- 
>

>>> HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny !
>>>
>>
>> Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
>> about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
>> enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much
>> more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money
>> if Apple keeps up their S*it!
>>
>> SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
>> B77tard!
>>
>
> Who you callin' an indigent!
>
>>
>>

Apologies to all for turning this important thread about memory storage into
an irrelevant bunch of BS.
-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>


 On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta 
 wrote:

> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a
> well-
> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>
> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>
> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
> 
>


 Uh, will they run LION ?
  _

>>>
>>>
>>> Frickin' DUH !
>>>

 -- 

>>>
>> HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny !
>>
>
> Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
> about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
> enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much
> more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money
> if Apple keeps up their S*it!
>
> SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
> B77tard!
>

Who you callin' an indigent!

>
>>
>>
>>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

 fluxstrin...@gmail.com

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
 http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
 http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
 http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
 http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
 http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/




>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>>
>>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>
>
>
>


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta wrote:
>>>
 On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
 > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
 > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
 > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
 > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a
 well-
 > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).

 Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
 purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.

 The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
 Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
 

>>>
>>>
>>> Uh, will they run LION ?
>>>  _
>>>
>>
>>
>> Frickin' DUH !
>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>
> HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny !
>

Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much
more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money
if Apple keeps up their S*it!

SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
B77tard!

>
>
>
>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>>
>>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>
>
>
>


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
>>> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
>>> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
>>> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
>>> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
>>> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>>>
>>> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
>>> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>>>
>>> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
>>> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>
>> Uh, will they run LION ?
>>  _
>>
>
>
> Frickin' DUH !
>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>
HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny !



> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>
>
>
>


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta wrote:
>
>> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
>> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
>> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
>> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
>> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
>> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>>
>> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
>> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>>
>> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
>> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
>> 
>>
>
>
> Uh, will they run LION ?
>  _
>


Frickin' DUH !

>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>
>
>
>


-- 
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta wrote:

> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>
> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>
> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
> 
>


Uh, will they run LION ?


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not
the factthat I was inspired by " LION" and Apple/Jobs going deep to
the dark side is
what this is about

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Sri Gupta]

On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
> translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
> reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
> the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
> finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
> built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).  

Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.

The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:48 PM, glen  wrote:

>
>
>
> >
> >From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 
>
> >>
> Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the
> current "style" your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of
> mimeographed
>
> political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a semaphore
> subtexting and toning whatever it expresses.
>
> Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have,
> if you
>
> cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is
> compromised.
>
> Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify
> with.
> Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old
> days.
> >>
>
> Well, the mimeograph analogy is not the best but does serve a an example of
> waning technology.
>
> In the early 70's my political friends and I produced 2 & 3 color political
> flyers on a mimeograph. Xerox was a rather low quality black and white
> substitute at at that time. Even the Gestetner mimeo techs were amazed at
> what
> we could do with their machines and took samples of our work to their
> regional
> office. We were doing duotones on a mimeograph. It took Xerox another 30
> years
> to get a decent color copier. --And we were hard pressed to buy food in
> those
> days.
>
> I guess the point, is that if we are creative enough we will find solutions
> to
> the latest technological advances we are faced with regardless of our
> budget (or
> lack of). I have no fear of Apple or any other corporate giant. Just deal
> with
> it!! --glen
>

When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg and
McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver
headaches whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired , tired, tired i say. ( and
the shouting masses behind me) I want an affordable mac that will do the job
and be upgradeable in increments as I can afford them.
At one time a used 7xoo filled that need. but the old clunker hasn't the
horsepower to pull the tall gears of modern software even slowly.

And saying it again for the upteenth time, Apple now actively working to
break the balls of even much more recent machines demoralizes troupes more
well heeled than I. so what chance do I have?

Being poor does not seem to translate well even on Low End Mac pages ( If
they are so poor why do they have or want computer? (TO USE AS TOOLS TO MAKE
MONEY SO THEY WONT BE SO DAMNEDLY POOR !  THAT'sWHY !) [apologies to the
sensitive. But one needs to shout when communications are not heard.

LOW END to me means poor.

People too poor to afford new computers.
People too poor to afford costly repairs.
People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.

If poor is not translatable then NEW END Mac would be a good place rather
than being tortured by the rants of the relatively indigent.

Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Asking Apple for some GD slack is more
like it. Asking The Steve for a crumb from the table. Appealing to his
beginnings.

Get it ?







-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 7:46 PM -0700 10/21/2010, ah...clem wrote:
a HD's reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude 
greater than the best (most expensive) SSD currently available. 
SSD's have a finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't 
compare to a well-built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).


As I recall, the write-cycle for NAND is 200 to 300k per cell.  And 
the write cycle for HD sectors is something over 100M per.   Is that 
the right magnitudes & current ballpark?


if you made a SSD your boot drive (meaning you would be reading and 
writing more or less constantly) you can expect it to have a safe 
reliable life of 2-3 years.


I think 2 to 3 years is highly optimistic.  My pile of failing usb 
flash sticks aside, already, I'm seeing modded laptops with SSD 
failures -- after just a year or so of use.


My impression is that SSD and high write-cycle usage such as paging, 
swap, scrach, photo editing, etc, just Do Not Mix.


Now, the new crop of flash memory technologies are supposed to be 
better than the previous... lol



...This is a point of failure that we're going to have to keep our 
eye on, especially since we LEMfolk tend to deal with older / used 
machines that will be especially susceptible.  I think a lot of our 
troubleshooting is based on the idea that if a drive isn't acting 
very wonky, it's fine.  We're going to have to deal more and more 
with diagnosing file corruption issues.  Mac OS X's code signing 
feature will help with that, from the OS' POV.  But that won't 
protect our user data at all!


- Dan.
--
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[ah...clem]

On Oct 21, 11:13 am, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> On Oct 20, 2010, at 10:51 PM, Tom wrote:
>
> > I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives
> > instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will
> > eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then?
>
> That's been predicted for about 20 years now.

translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).  if you made a SSD your boot
drive (meaning you would be reading and writing more or less
constantly) you can expect it to have a safe reliable life of 2-3
years.  you wanna put your money and data into one of those, knock
yourself up.  i have HD's that are over 10 y old, and still do not
have a single bad sector.  only trouble is they are small.  but then
again, so are the SSD's that cost less than a used car.

and btw, from what i've read, people here are not so concerned that
their old hardware and software are becoming obsolete, as they are
concerned that the new stuff coming out is actually inferior, even if
it is able to run the latest apps and stream the latest version of
flash, it's a dumbed down, disabled version of what they've come to
rely on, eg, the intel crap that replaced the altivec processors.
after 5 years, the intel chips still lack some of the inherent design
advantages of the altivec.  and PPC was allegedly abandoned because
motorola couldn't or wouldn't invest in the clock-speed war.  contrary
to the notion that technology will continue to advance exponentially,
notice how CPU clock-speeds have more or less plateaued since the
"competition" ended, compared the the five years prior to the switch
to intel?

there will only be justice, equality, and most importantly, sanity,
when all of the gordon gecko's have been put to the sword.  even the
ones named steve.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[glen]

>
>From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 

>>
Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the 
current "style" your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of 
mimeographed 

political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a semaphore 
subtexting and toning whatever it expresses.

Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if 
you 

cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is compromised.

Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify with.  
Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old 
days. 
>>

Well, the mimeograph analogy is not the best but does serve a an example of 
waning technology.

In the early 70's my political friends and I produced 2 & 3 color political 
flyers on a mimeograph. Xerox was a rather low quality black and white 
substitute at at that time. Even the Gestetner mimeo techs were amazed at what 
we could do with their machines and took samples of our work to their regional 
office. We were doing duotones on a mimeograph. It took Xerox another 30 years 
to get a decent color copier. --And we were hard pressed to buy food in those 
days.

I guess the point, is that if we are creative enough we will find solutions to 
the latest technological advances we are faced with regardless of our budget 
(or 
lack of). I have no fear of Apple or any other corporate giant. Just deal with 
it!! --glen


  

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 5:26 PM, Dan wrote:


At 5:48 PM -0600 10/21/2010, James Therrault wrote:

Exactly my sentiments and Apple may pay a price for the arrogance...


Yea, all the way to the bank.

AAPL is still trading over $300.  Have you taken your profits yet?




No.  I have never really had a taste for dabling in the stock  
market.  In fact, I think that the average investor could do better  
to buy a daily racing form then bet on the nags at the local track.


That said, I do own one stock acquired nearly fifty years ago that  
pays a pretty nifty dividend every quarter.  An old conservative,  
(originally family held), company that knows their market and how to  
maximize their resources.


OTOH, if I wanna gamble, I'll spend a week in Vegas...

JT




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 5:48 PM -0600 10/21/2010, James Therrault wrote:

Exactly my sentiments and Apple may pay a price for the arrogance...


Yea, all the way to the bank.

AAPL is still trading over $300.  Have you taken your profits yet?

- Dan.
--
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 9:41 PM + 10/21/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
Does it seem strange to anyone else that in an era when we hear a 
lot of lip service about the nobility of free enterprise and 
business efforts that a big company like Apple is out of tune with 
what small businesses need in a computer.


Strange?  No.  Apple, under L'Jobs, has shown no serious interest in 
the business market, small or large.  Sure, they've tossed the 
business market a few bones (eg: Exchange support), but that's 
nothing compared to what it really takes to get into business.


At this point, Apple is quickly selling *every* device (iPod, iPhone, 
iPad, and Mac) that they can manufacture.  Adding more markets, while 
there is no capacity to build more widgets, would simply create 
back-orders -- which would hurt their bottom line.


Where the hell is that $ 500 ( not kidding Steve, that is the price 
point) mid tower Mac with slots and room for at least 2 drives. 
Upgradeable CPU and RAM too.


Apple seems to have little to no interest in the low-end or mid-range 
market.  Old news.


If you need machines for your business, and cannot afford new Macs, 
then go hit the used and refirb market.  Those machines work 
perfectly well.


Think of it as Apple's belief in the power of the masses to 
bootstrap themselves into a full out Mac Pro.


If that was the case, then Mac Pro sales would dwarf the Mini and 
iMac sales by now.  But that's just not the case.


An ideological investment by The Steve into the wellbeing of the 
ground up nature of the economy would be a good sign and give those 
on the lowest tier some cash to please the corporate SUCK.


Is such needed?  The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right 
now.  Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make 
those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in 
to the toilet!  WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in 
that?


- Dan.
--
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:


--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Donnerstag 21 Oktober 2010N
From:Bruce Johnson 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com


On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote:


If you don't like it there are  alternatives: Windows, Linux,  
Chrome, just
getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple  
becoming

your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the
latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac.



Nope, not my quote. - JT


This is a general problem. I run Linux for this very reason. It  
never let me
down. Whatever computer hardware I was giving it, it would always  
do the job
right. The upgrading is step-by-step, no great leaps, but always a  
little…


And I cannot come up with another operating system that would let  
be move from
a PC (x86, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 32-bit) to a Power Mac  
(PowerPC,
64-bit) to a PC (amd64, 64-bit) without having migration trouble.  
All the
software ran, regardless of the underlying architecture [except  
closed source
stuff like Flash :-( – I'd love open standards!]. All my personal  
files and
settings – there! You couldn't even tell the difference if it was a  
PC or a

PowerPC!


When someone buys a product like a PC with Windows, or a Mac with  
Mac OS, then
(s)he agrees to the license, right? With Microsoft and Apple this  
is a right

to USE this software, not to own it.

With Linux on the other hand… well, you even get the right to  
enhance it,
participate with it, … much too technical stuff anyway. But you may  
as well

simply just use it.


Linux has never and most likely will never drop hardware support,  
as long as

you report incompatibilities at the appropriate forums/lists. A Linux
developer will always try to solve this problem for you – as long  
as you are

willing to help in this process.



Just my solution around this “business problem” some of you are  
having with

Apple.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250



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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:



...comments about the struggle on the street level I can well  
identify with.
Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in  
the old days.



Now there's a mouthful.

Exactly my sentiments and Apple may pay a price for the arrogance...

JT




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Ashgrove wrote:


On Oct 21, 3:16 pm, James Therrault  wrote:

Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the
business that requires it.

Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain.

That said, a very substantial number of Mac owners own older Macs as
do I.  My newest is a 1.25GHz PowerBook, (bought on eBay in 2007),
that does just fine with Tiger. My other Mac is a Gigabit purchased
new in 2001.

Since you mentioned automobile, well that is often the case of
"keepin' up with the Jones'."

I don't subscribe to such since I drive really old cars the newest
being a 1983.  If they run good why change a good thing?


James, you seem to have mistaken me for somebody else. My point has
nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses and everything with the
fact that things are not made to last anymore. (FWIW, I drive a 1994.)



I didn't infer that it was you but just people in general.  There is  
a minority of us that think outside the box and look at numbers  
before we jump into a major purchase.


Of course, the majority might think me just a mite crazy...

JT




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Donnerstag 21 Oktober 2010N
From:Bruce Johnson 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote:

> If you don't like it there are  alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just
> getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming
> your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the
> latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac.

This is a general problem. I run Linux for this very reason. It never let me 
down. Whatever computer hardware I was giving it, it would always do the job 
right. The upgrading is step-by-step, no great leaps, but always a little…

And I cannot come up with another operating system that would let be move from 
a PC (x86, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 
64-bit) to a PC (amd64, 64-bit) without having migration trouble. All the 
software ran, regardless of the underlying architecture [except closed source 
stuff like Flash :-( – I'd love open standards!]. All my personal files and 
settings – there! You couldn't even tell the difference if it was a PC or a 
PowerPC!


When someone buys a product like a PC with Windows, or a Mac with Mac OS, then 
(s)he agrees to the license, right? With Microsoft and Apple this is a right 
to USE this software, not to own it.

With Linux on the other hand… well, you even get the right to enhance it, 
participate with it, … much too technical stuff anyway. But you may as well 
simply just use it.


Linux has never and most likely will never drop hardware support, as long as 
you report incompatibilities at the appropriate forums/lists. A Linux 
developer will always try to solve this problem for you – as long as you are 
willing to help in this process.



Just my solution around this “business problem” some of you are having with 
Apple.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Mac User #330250]

There are two categories of people. The one always puts people into a 
category, the other just knows that this doesn't work.

[As a non native speaker I have the fearful feeling that this translation 
sucks…]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Donnerstag 21 Oktober 2010N
From:Brian Christmas 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

> Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry,
> even tho it's not planned.

No. The obsolescence this is all about is business motivated – they 
deliberately make software advances only work with new models in order to sell 
those new models in order to make more money.

It could be done also with older computers, and there is a market for it. But 
this market is not profitable enough, so Apple decided to drop it completely.

There are other market concepts, like selling hardware only (or with any 
operating system, but without support from the hardware seller), that doesn't 
have the need for combining the hard- and software into one business. Like 
computers for Windows and Linux/BSD. And, +15 years ago, DOS and OS/2.

In such markets one can see enough support for older hardware (Windows: XP and 
7 Starter, e.g. on (new) Netbooks as well as older computers) and even better 
support throu specialized distributions in the Linux/BSD world.

What does this tell us?
People don't simply trash their older hardware simply because bleeding edge 
software –and an operating system is only a place to start– doesn't run on 
their machines anymore. Instead, they want to continue using it with 
applicable software, such as an operating system that suited their machines 
_and_ their needs then and will continue to do so new – but isn't abondoned 
like Mac OS X. Having bug fixes and current standards implimented is a basic 
need, also for “older” software like Mac OS X on PowerMacs. There is technical 
reason why this wouldn't be possible, but to desliberately drop support for 
these computers out of business reasons.

Linux/BSD proves that also very modern bleeding edge (in Linux terms) software 
technology works on old and older and oldest machines.

You can run Linux/BSD even on machines from the 80's without problems except 
that performance will naturally be limited. The software look and feel will be 
limited. But it runs. And there are plenty of software solutions that make an 
Intel 80486 with 50 MHz be a surf station for the internet possible without 
the fear of being a security hazzard like it would be with Windows 95 and Mac 
OS 7-9. And almost every bug-fixed version of standard tools will be available 
for it. [The advantage of open source, I guess…]

> It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that
> love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors,
> memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage,
> and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the
> older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be
> constantly shrinking.

For writing a letter or reading news on the internet you don't need these 
advances.

> My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep
> up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm
> glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old
> Apple IIe.

That sentence is nonsense and you know it.

> I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24" iMac, but I'm ashamed
> to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27" iMacs, …

Don't be ashamed. There's nothing wrong with computing power. The i7 is a very 
powerfull CPU and the 27″ display rocks – although it is a glare display 
(yak!)

> … mainly cause some
> graphics I'm trying to write for an iPad app are too slow rendering on my
> core 2 duo. I'm lucky; I earn a small amount programming for Macs, that as
> a retiree keeps my family in iMacs. If I had to justify my requirements to
> my other halfs requirements only, I'd still own my old 1.8 G5, running
> 10.3, and my kids would own Windblown PC's (shudder).

This tells it all. You are a Mac desciple. There is nothing wrong with that 
but that you are not at all openminded.
Please, try something new for a change! Why is the step from Mac OS 9 to Mac 
OS X no problem, but the step from Mac OS X 10.6 to Windows 7 such an undoable 
thing? Why not once try Linux? How about FreeBSD? OpenBSD?

> Pity the PC users
> still stuck with XP, or the graphics heavy version of it, Windows 7.

Why is it always Windows?
Please accept the fact that Microsoft supports Windows XP until the year 2015. 
This will make Windows XP being a supported operating sy

Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

Does it seem strange to anyone else that in an era when we hear a lot of lip
service about the nobility of free enterprise and business efforts that a
big company like Apple is out of tune with what small businesses need in a
computer.
Where the hell is that $ 500 ( not kidding Steve, that is the price point)
mid tower Mac with slots and room for at least 2 drives. Upgradeable CPU and
RAM too.

Think of it as Apple's belief in the power of the masses to bootstrap
themselves into a full out Mac Pro. An ideological investment by The Steve
into the wellbeing of the ground up nature of the economy would be a good
sign and give those on the lowest tier some cash to please the corporate
SUCK. ( big bald baby that it is)

In other words enabling us the tools would help us and by helping us having
a good effect on the general economy.

It would also show that Apple is socially sensitive.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:15 PM, Kyle Hansen  wrote:

>  On 10/21/10 1:58 PM, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio" 
> wrote:
>
>
> Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify
> with.
> Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old
> days.
>
> Thank you.
> ___
>

Wow, getting hard in this thread to keep track of who said what.

You are welcome Kyle.

-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Kyle Hansen  wrote:

>
>
>   It's usually people who make
> minor machine jumps that b*tch.  For example going from a 4 year old
> machine
> to a 3 year old machine instead of hitting the head of the curve.  If these
> people shelled out a few more bucks they would have a top of the line
> machine that would last them a long time.  I have a Tangerine iBook here
> for
> testing RAM and OS 9 problems.  It works great.  It's not Apple that is
> hurting you.  It's developers moving on to the next and better thing.
> Programs do not run well on old hardware for a reason.  Developers are
> developing for the future.  If you were a machinist would you be working on
> a better carburetor for a 73 Buick or a hydrogen fuel cell?
>

What has been expressed by me and some others here Kyle is we do not even
have that "few more bucks" we are strapped and on the soup line ( you think
I am joking right ?)
When I bought a 604 Mac I needed the newest but the graphics and file
formats i could generate slowly could work. Now I need at least that G5 I
needed 5 years ago but might sqeak by getting a 1.6 GHz unit. and it will
not do the work either. I feel like one of those guys in India who carve a
working motorcycle out of scrap with an axe. I cannot generate money fast
enough to buy even working vintage equipment and I think of anything
pre-Intel as vintage ! Anything Pre last year I think of simply as OLD !

You are right about developers but as I noted in the Amiga era hardware and
software ( formats and protocols included) which as Brian Christmas
points out is good in itself.
BUT actively sabotaging the viability of your past customers systems and
tightly controlling the ability of a free market for apps and other software
borders on the unAmerican. Where is free enterprise supposed to be as an
ideal when developers outside the loop are forbidden from practicing that
enterprise?

Read about what The Steve says about Android phones and their market and
users the other day. A former anarchistic phone hacker is now dissing the
freedom of open source. All considerations of performance or quality aside
is The Steve afraid an open market may compete better. or is his rant simply
a class/caste system demarcator meant to position the "i"WAY as the way of
the Ubermenschen ? Or is it simply a marketing ploy. I cannot help but
wonder about the workings of the Steve's mind.

Choice, which one would assume was a good quality in the " user friendly "
Mac era
( remember that cute guy?) has now become "bad" when people need a phone or
an operating system that fits their need ( i.e. user friendly )? No, I do
not think Linux is the answer. But Linux kernels tweaked by computer and
phone makers may be better some day than systems we cannot afford.

That hackintosh idea seems better these days too !

And the fuel cell car may be where it's at but it will be the government and
NOT BUICK that will keep your '73 off the road.

But it will be Apple that kills your Mac. Ask all of those who have
struggled to get Snow Leopard onto G5s and keep everything in tune and
working.


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
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http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Kyle Hansen]

On 10/21/10 1:58 PM, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio" 
wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Richard Gerome 
> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>    Hey Brian, I agree with you on that it is cool but: why is it we can't
>> still run our old machines too without more trouble whenever they come out
>> with faster and better stuff??? I don't care if it's slower I just want to do
>> what I always did... They force us to buy the newer stuff by making our older
>> stuff run worse... I have a friend with an old TiBook running Panther who
>> can't use it anymore and he can not afford to upgrade it to Tiger and get few
>> more yrs out of it... He lives in South America and I've been looking for a
>> Tiger disc and more memory for him cheap enough for me to afford and mail it
>> to him so we can still stay in touch by emails and Scipe (mailing him letters
>> would prob take a week from the USA) and by then the news up here to him is
>> too late... Not only are some of us retired and living on fixed incomes some
>> of us had to file for bankruptcy and are not making anything at all... In his
>> case he lost his home and business and had to move back with his relatives
>> down there...  Us poor people always have to suffer and get creative just to
>> keep up... Today you need a computer to get a job because they are now
>> online... They don't even hire you now because they do a credit check too
>> ("hey I'm here for a job not a loan") I got into this credit problem because
>> of loosing my job in the first place... WTF is this all about???
> 
> Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the
> current "style" your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of
> mimeographed political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a
> semaphore subtexting and toning whatever it expresses.
> 
> Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if
> you cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is
> compromised.
> 
> Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify
> with.  
> Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old
> days. 
> 
Thank you.
---
The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be
when they start making vacuum cleaners
---


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Richard Gerome
wrote:

>
>
>Hey Brian, I agree with you on that it is cool but: why is it we can't
> still run our old machines too without more trouble whenever they come out
> with faster and better stuff??? I don't care if it's slower I just want to
> do what I always did... They force us to buy the newer stuff by making our
> older stuff run worse... I have a friend with an old TiBook running Panther
> who can't use it anymore and he can not afford to upgrade it to Tiger and
> get few more yrs out of it... He lives in South America and I've been
> looking for a Tiger disc and more memory for him cheap enough for me to
> afford and mail it to him so we can still stay in touch by emails and Scipe
> (mailing him letters would prob take a week from the USA) and by then the
> news up here to him is too late... Not only are some of us retired and
> living on fixed incomes some of us had to file for bankruptcy and are not
> making anything at all... In his case he lost his home and business and had
> to move back with his relatives down there...  Us poor people always have to
> suffer and get creative just to keep up... Today you need a computer to get
> a job because they are now online... They don't even hire you now because
> they do a credit check too ("hey I'm here for a job not a loan") I got into
> this credit problem because of loosing my job in the first place... WTF is
> this all about???
>

Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the
current "style" your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of
mimeographed political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a
semaphore subtexting and toning whatever it expresses.

Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if
you cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is
compromised.

Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify
with.
Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old
days.


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 11:16 AM, JoeTaxpayer wrote:

> Permit me to be old for a minute. 48, by the way.

Pshaw..get off my lawn you kid! 8-P

> I had a 3GB drive that I paid $300 for. 3GB would take "forever" to
> fill. Really? Now 3GB is 13 minutes of raw DV, not even a full DVD.

When I started working here (1994), we had just set up our first-ever file 
server, with a *gargantuan* 10GB drive. Man we'd NEVER fill that up! (we still 
have that thing laying about, just to remind us..a huge 5 1/4" full height 15 
pound chunk of metal)

Now I can (and do, routinely) carry a USB flash drive in my pocket with more 
storage space, and we're looking at expanding our file server space (currently 
6TB) to something like 20TB.

Some years ago, when we were writing a justification for increasing the files 
servers (again!) I plotted our storage usage against time. Excel was able to 
fit an exponential curve function to it really closely, and we were in the part 
that's shooting almost straight up. We still are.

"Data expands to fit the available space".

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 21, 2:27 pm, Kyle Hansen  wrote:
> Listen, I feel your pain, I have an SE-30 sitting right here.  I know this
> is Lowendmac, but the Sawtooth G4 should be considered vintage at this
> point. Back when I was nannying the PM 8500 list machines that were a three
> or so years back were considered vintage.  It's usually people who make
> minor machine jumps that b*tch.  For example going from a 4 year old machine
> to a 3 year old machine instead of hitting the head of the curve.  If these
> people shelled out a few more bucks they would have a top of the line
> machine that would last them a long time.  I have a Tangerine iBook here for
> testing RAM and OS 9 problems.  It works great.  It's not Apple that is
> hurting you.  It's developers moving on to the next and better thing.
> Programs do not run well on old hardware for a reason.  Developers are
> developing for the future.  If you were a machinist would you be working on
> a better carburetor for a 73 Buick or a hydrogen fuel cell?

Kyle, all that is good and dandy. But I'm not worried about the
obsolescence of a Gigabit, but of a Core 2 Duo, and is less that than
the fact that a lot of this obsolescence is forced on you. It has
nothing to do with your hardware, which can do things that your
software doesn't allow them to do, so you are forced to buy new...

And, by the way, Netflix envelopes are good and dandy, but what's
great about streamed video is that you can watch the movies that are
being showed in the Cannes Film Festival, right away. What worries me
is that Amazon sells you a digital movie, or a digital book, and does
not allow you to download it. You are sold the right to stream it. If
that's the future, it's downright scary.



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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 21, 3:16 pm, James Therrault  wrote:
> Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the  
> business that requires it.
>
> Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain.
>
> That said, a very substantial number of Mac owners own older Macs as  
> do I.  My newest is a 1.25GHz PowerBook, (bought on eBay in 2007),  
> that does just fine with Tiger. My other Mac is a Gigabit purchased  
> new in 2001.
>
> Since you mentioned automobile, well that is often the case of  
> "keepin' up with the Jones'."
>
> I don't subscribe to such since I drive really old cars the newest  
> being a 1983.  If they run good why change a good thing?

James, you seem to have mistaken me for somebody else. My point has
nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses and everything with the
fact that things are not made to last anymore. (FWIW, I drive a 1994.)

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[JoeTaxpayer]

Agreed. I also think the demand slope isn't linear. There's one price
that would capture "all" laptops, another that makes the Desktop
primary drive SSD, yet another that gets bulk storage. Just like LCD
TV had one price to get in my living room, but another to make it to
the basement area. And since these prices are different for each
person, the results are pretty interesting over time.

Also - I know enough to know there is a wear-out issue with SSD that's
different than the HD issues. I don't know if the constant write/erase
of a TiVo-type application makes the SSD not quite ready for prime
time in that type of use case. For me, eliminating the HD noise has a
pretty high value. (But only in the bedroom. Living room noise not as
big a deal)

On Oct 21, 2:36 pm, Dan  wrote:

> A $1/GB price point, for *reliable* devices, is fairly critical to get past.
>
> Big HDs really boomed when they hit 25c/GB.
>
> - Dan.
> --
> - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 11:16 AM -0700 10/21/2010, JoeTaxpayer wrote:
until and unless SSD cost drops to a lower X of HD, both will be 
there side by side


*nod*

A $1/GB price point, for *reliable* devices, is fairly critical to get past.

Big HDs really boomed when they hit 25c/GB.

- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Kyle Hansen]

On 10/21/10 12:16 PM, "James Therrault"  wrote:

> Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the
> business that requires it.
> 
> Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain.

Actually I work for a number of large Bay Area firms and they are switching
to Mac's.  Including the Government.  Lawrence Livermore Labs.  They want
the security and stability that the Mac OS has to offer.  Windoze may rule
that domain for now but not forever.
---
The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be
when they start making vacuum cleaners
---



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