Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
After much doing (using a hybrid of methods), I was able to flash the Radeon 7000 PCI graphics card to successfully work on the Mac -- currently I'm using v2.08 of the ROM and have noticed that neither QE or Core Image are being supported. Will going up to v2.26 enable one (or both) of those? As I mentioned earlier, the main reason I'm using this card is to enable monitor rotation -- so basically whatever ROM allows for that under 10.4. Thanks folks! On Feb 13, 2:01 pm, Peter Devlin pdim...@mail.com wrote: On 13/02/2012 15:38, Jesse jesse.wm.wall...@gmail.com wrote: As some of you have suspected, the card was recognized when I plugged it in my PC. It won't display past the Windows XP startup screen, but I know that's something to do with not having the correct drivers. Bottom line: if it displays ANYTHING, it's gotta be working to some capacity. So my next course of action is to flash the ROM so that it will work in my Mac. All of the methods I've seen involve making a PC boot disk, running a utility while booted up with that disk, then transfer it over to the Mac and flash the ROM to the newest version. Is there a fairly straightforward (and as foolproof as possible) guide that someone can point me to? BTW, the guy who sold me the card apologized for it not working and refunded me all of my money saying not to worry about returning the card. So if I can get it going, it's a dbl-win. Thanks for all of the advice up to this point. First step is to id the rom chip as that will be the limiting factor in any conversion to mac - it's a quite small 8 pin soic flash memory chip and hopefully made by ST micro - and if so labelled M25P05 or M25P10 - there are other reference numbers following the first bit but ignore them. Other common flash memory providers were Atmel. The M25P05 is allegedly 64KB and the M25P10 is 128KB - the allegedly is there because many P10 chips were mislabelled as P05. Required for flashing on a PC will be a dos boot disk and a second disk containing the utilities and any roms needed. Flashrom will be ok for the utility for such an old card and no other display card is required if you 'hot flash' it while it is in use for the PC display as the rom is no longer accessed after the dos boot. FIRST save the current rom from the card - vital if anything goes pear shaped. If you have a P05 chip you can flash it with a 64KB or less reduced mac 7000 rom - or alternatively try the full 128KB mac rom to find out the size of the chip. If the rom is indeed a 64KB chip the 128KB flash will fail with an error at 65556 something odd bytes and should immediately be reflashed with the smaller 64KB mac rom - success should result in a little tune from the mobo. With the reduced mac rom it will work ok under OSX and classic but pretty awful under OS9 boot - the info to enable it in OS9 has been removed from the reduced rom. The reduced rom/chip is also not upgradeable with any ATI updates as they will try to write 128KB into a 64KB chip and kill the card - and resurrecting it will require a PC with a second display card so use the latest version reduced rom. Complete flashing info for dos commands etc should be on the mac elite wiki. All good stuff...let me know if you need any more... Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Jesse wrote: After much doing (using a hybrid of methods), I was able to flash the Radeon 7000 PCI graphics card to successfully work on the Mac -- currently I'm using v2.08 of the ROM and have noticed that neither QE or Core Image are being supported. Will going up to v2.26 enable one (or both) of those? As I mentioned earlier, the main reason I'm using this card is to enable monitor rotation -- so basically whatever ROM allows for that under 10.4. Thanks folks! You need to use a hack to get Quartz Extreme running on pci video card. I can not remember the name, maybe someone else can. I used it on 10.2, but never needed it on any OS higher so I don't know if it works in 10.4. I do not believe the pci 7000 supports core image, so you may be out of luck there. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 23, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Jesse wrote: After much doing (using a hybrid of methods), I was able to flash the Radeon 7000 PCI graphics card to successfully work on the Mac -- currently I'm using v2.08 of the ROM and have noticed that neither QE or Core Image are being supported. Neither QE or CI were ever supported for PCI video cards. There's a hack to get QE running, but when I did it many moons ago, I found that the incidence of random crashes did not outweigh the slim speed increase that QE offered. Also, now that I think about it (after you've gone through all this hassle) ATI never supported rotation on the 7000. I remember looking into it when I first got a LCD capable of rotating. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
Man... now THAT is bad news. That being said, the guy DID refund my money on the card purchase so it isn't like I'm out any money. Now, if I could just get all that TIME back. quelle drag... On Feb 23, 10:59 am, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Feb 23, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Jesse wrote: After much doing (using a hybrid of methods), I was able to flash the Radeon 7000 PCI graphics card to successfully work on the Mac -- currently I'm using v2.08 of the ROM and have noticed that neither QE or Core Image are being supported. Neither QE or CI were ever supported for PCI video cards. There's a hack to get QE running, but when I did it many moons ago, I found that the incidence of random crashes did not outweigh the slim speed increase that QE offered. Also, now that I think about it (after you've gone through all this hassle) ATI never supported rotation on the 7000. I remember looking into it when I first got a LCD capable of rotating. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
Double check with ATI's website...I might be remembering the specs for the RAdeon 9000 AGP that I had in my G4. On Feb 23, 2012, at 9:39 AM, Jesse wrote: Man... now THAT is bad news. That being said, the guy DID refund my money on the card purchase so it isn't like I'm out any money. Now, if I could just get all that TIME back. quelle drag... On Feb 23, 10:59 am, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Feb 23, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Jesse wrote: After much doing (using a hybrid of methods), I was able to flash the Radeon 7000 PCI graphics card to successfully work on the Mac -- currently I'm using v2.08 of the ROM and have noticed that neither QE or Core Image are being supported. Neither QE or CI were ever supported for PCI video cards. There's a hack to get QE running, but when I did it many moons ago, I found that the incidence of random crashes did not outweigh the slim speed increase that QE offered. Also, now that I think about it (after you've gone through all this hassle) ATI never supported rotation on the 7000. I remember looking into it when I first got a LCD capable of rotating. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On 23/02/2012 15:04, Jesse jesse.wm.wall...@gmail.com wrote: After much doing (using a hybrid of methods), I was able to flash the Radeon 7000 PCI graphics card to successfully work on the Mac -- currently I'm using v2.08 of the ROM and have noticed that neither QE or Core Image are being supported. Will going up to v2.26 enable one (or both) of those? As I mentioned earlier, the main reason I'm using this card is to enable monitor rotation -- so basically whatever ROM allows for that under 10.4. Thanks folks! Hmm - is that where you rotate the monitor itself or where the monitor stays as is and the display view is rotated with software? I thought the second method was called Versavision by ATI and is part of the still available ATI Displays Utilities prefs pane for Tiger and later. I've had it installed with ATI cards many times but never tried it so perhaps I'm mistaken and it is only of use for rotatable monitors. Can't try it cos I've currently got a GeForce installed. Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
I guess the latter -- I have a 19 Trinitron monitor at 90º (mounted in an old Birdie King arcade cabinet) -- right now, the desktop displays in portrait and I need it to display in landscape in order for the front end to show up correctly. I have YET to install the drivers as I assumed that OS X (10.4.11) would be able to take care of it on its own as the iBook G4 booting off that same drive image shows the rotation options -- but that has a different ATI Radeon chip. On Feb 23, 12:17 pm, Peter Devlin pdim...@mail.com wrote: On 23/02/2012 15:04, Jesse jesse.wm.wall...@gmail.com wrote: After much doing (using a hybrid of methods), I was able to flash the Radeon 7000 PCI graphics card to successfully work on the Mac -- currently I'm using v2.08 of the ROM and have noticed that neither QE or Core Image are being supported. Will going up to v2.26 enable one (or both) of those? As I mentioned earlier, the main reason I'm using this card is to enable monitor rotation -- so basically whatever ROM allows for that under 10.4. Thanks folks! Hmm - is that where you rotate the monitor itself or where the monitor stays as is and the display view is rotated with software? I thought the second method was called Versavision by ATI and is part of the still available ATI Displays Utilities prefs pane for Tiger and later. I've had it installed with ATI cards many times but never tried it so perhaps I'm mistaken and it is only of use for rotatable monitors. Can't try it cos I've currently got a GeForce installed. Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:44 AM, Jesse wrote: I guess the latter -- I have a 19 Trinitron monitor at 90º (mounted in an old Birdie King arcade cabinet) -- right now, the desktop displays in portrait and I need it to display in landscape in order for the front end to show up correctly. I have YET to install the drivers as I assumed that OS X (10.4.11) would be able to take care of it on its own as the iBook G4 booting off that same drive image shows the rotation options -- but that has a different ATI Radeon chip. Making a MAME cabinet? :-) Yes rotation (and this is rotating the monitor) is managed by the driver and is dependent on the chipset. SO you may want to repurpose a notebook like the iBook for this purpose. They're readily available. I can no longer find the article on AMD's website that listed what board supported what features. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 23, 2012, at 9:04 AM, Jesse wrote: currently I'm using v2.08 of the ROM and have noticed that neither QE or Core Image are being supported. Will going up to v2.26 enable one (or both) of those? If you're using the reduced 2.08 ROM then upgrading to the reduced 2.26 might actually cause your card to not function, but you can always flash back, so you'll have to see? If you're using the full size 2.08 ROM absolutely upgrade to the full size 2.26 ROM, it improves function in OS X. In order to enable QE you'll need PCI Extreme 3.1 available at MacUpdate.com. You can't enable Core Image on any PCI cards other than hacked ROM GeForce FX5200 Ultra cards on PPC Macs. On hackintosh PCs running OS X there are quite a few PCI cards that enable both QE CI, but PPC Macs only have the FX5200 Ultra. As I mentioned earlier, the main reason I'm using this card is to enable monitor rotation -- so basically whatever ROM allows for that under 10.4. You'd need ATI Display Utility 4.5.7 in order to rotate, it's not handled natively in Tiger 10.4.11. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
Here's what I could find with a quick search... http://www2.ati.com/drivers/macosx-ati-displays-4-5-1.html Added VERSAVISION display rotation on Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) to select ATI OEM graphic solutions. RADEON 9800 XT RADEON 9800 Pro RADEON 9600 XT RADEON 9600 Pro RADEON 9200 (Mac Mini) So uh yeah... NOT the 7000 (annoyed grunt). On Feb 23, 1:04 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:44 AM, Jesse wrote: I guess the latter -- I have a 19 Trinitron monitor at 90º (mounted in an old Birdie King arcade cabinet) -- right now, the desktop displays in portrait and I need it to display in landscape in order for the front end to show up correctly. I have YET to install the drivers as I assumed that OS X (10.4.11) would be able to take care of it on its own as the iBook G4 booting off that same drive image shows the rotation options -- but that has a different ATI Radeon chip. Making a MAME cabinet? :-) Yes rotation (and this is rotating the monitor) is managed by the driver and is dependent on the chipset. SO you may want to repurpose a notebook like the iBook for this purpose. They're readily available. I can no longer find the article on AMD's website that listed what board supported what features. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
And yes, it's a MAME cabinet (which is no small feat when using a Mac instead of a PC). 'j On Feb 23, 1:04 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:44 AM, Jesse wrote: I guess the latter -- I have a 19 Trinitron monitor at 90º (mounted in an old Birdie King arcade cabinet) -- right now, the desktop displays in portrait and I need it to display in landscape in order for the front end to show up correctly. I have YET to install the drivers as I assumed that OS X (10.4.11) would be able to take care of it on its own as the iBook G4 booting off that same drive image shows the rotation options -- but that has a different ATI Radeon chip. Making a MAME cabinet? :-) Yes rotation (and this is rotating the monitor) is managed by the driver and is dependent on the chipset. SO you may want to repurpose a notebook like the iBook for this purpose. They're readily available. I can no longer find the article on AMD's website that listed what board supported what features. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 23, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Jesse wrote: Here's what I could find with a quick search... http://www2.ati.com/drivers/macosx-ati-displays-4-5-1.html Your google-fu is strong today, that's the article I was remembering, but couldn't find. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
As some of you have suspected, the card was recognized when I plugged it in my PC. It won't display past the Windows XP startup screen, but I know that's something to do with not having the correct drivers. Bottom line: if it displays ANYTHING, it's gotta be working to some capacity. So my next course of action is to flash the ROM so that it will work in my Mac. All of the methods I've seen involve making a PC boot disk, running a utility while booted up with that disk, then transfer it over to the Mac and flash the ROM to the newest version. Is there a fairly straightforward (and as foolproof as possible) guide that someone can point me to? BTW, the guy who sold me the card apologized for it not working and refunded me all of my money saying not to worry about returning the card. So if I can get it going, it's a dbl-win. Thanks for all of the advice up to this point. On Feb 11, 6:28 pm, t...@io.com t...@prismnet.com wrote: On Feb 10, 2:17 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: It SHOULD just work, as the only difference between this and a retail Radeon 7000, iirc, was the lack of the other ports. Have you tried it on a more modern monitor than the old 19 one? It's remotely possible it's putting out a signal that won't work on the monitor, but my suspicion is that it's a dead card. I ran into a similar problem with the Radeon 7000 in a Beige G3 when I used it with a Radius Intellicolor 20e CRT monitor. Unfortunately, that was about seven years ago and I don't remember the details. There was a way for me to get it to work. And I'm not even certain it was with the Radius. Maybe it was with an IBM 18.1 LCD from 2000. At the time I suspected that it had to do with some newish, at the time, signalling system that monitors were using to signal or detect which resolutions were available. And I was able to get around it somehow. I may have done something like using a VGA to Mac adapter coupled with a Mac to VGA adapter. Or maybe booting with extensions off. Once I had the thing booted and the resolution set to a lower level things were fine. The problem appeared to be that the video card defaulted to too high of a resolution for the ones supported by the monitor, or something. It's possible I posted a question about it in one of these lists, so a search of posts back around 2002 - 2005 might turn something up. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On 13/02/2012 15:38, Jesse jesse.wm.wall...@gmail.com wrote: As some of you have suspected, the card was recognized when I plugged it in my PC. It won't display past the Windows XP startup screen, but I know that's something to do with not having the correct drivers. Bottom line: if it displays ANYTHING, it's gotta be working to some capacity. So my next course of action is to flash the ROM so that it will work in my Mac. All of the methods I've seen involve making a PC boot disk, running a utility while booted up with that disk, then transfer it over to the Mac and flash the ROM to the newest version. Is there a fairly straightforward (and as foolproof as possible) guide that someone can point me to? BTW, the guy who sold me the card apologized for it not working and refunded me all of my money saying not to worry about returning the card. So if I can get it going, it's a dbl-win. Thanks for all of the advice up to this point. First step is to id the rom chip as that will be the limiting factor in any conversion to mac - it's a quite small 8 pin soic flash memory chip and hopefully made by ST micro - and if so labelled M25P05 or M25P10 - there are other reference numbers following the first bit but ignore them. Other common flash memory providers were Atmel. The M25P05 is allegedly 64KB and the M25P10 is 128KB - the allegedly is there because many P10 chips were mislabelled as P05. Required for flashing on a PC will be a dos boot disk and a second disk containing the utilities and any roms needed. Flashrom will be ok for the utility for such an old card and no other display card is required if you 'hot flash' it while it is in use for the PC display as the rom is no longer accessed after the dos boot. FIRST save the current rom from the card - vital if anything goes pear shaped. If you have a P05 chip you can flash it with a 64KB or less reduced mac 7000 rom - or alternatively try the full 128KB mac rom to find out the size of the chip. If the rom is indeed a 64KB chip the 128KB flash will fail with an error at 65556 something odd bytes and should immediately be reflashed with the smaller 64KB mac rom - success should result in a little tune from the mobo. With the reduced mac rom it will work ok under OSX and classic but pretty awful under OS9 boot - the info to enable it in OS9 has been removed from the reduced rom. The reduced rom/chip is also not upgradeable with any ATI updates as they will try to write 128KB into a 64KB chip and kill the card - and resurrecting it will require a PC with a second display card so use the latest version reduced rom. Complete flashing info for dos commands etc should be on the mac elite wiki. All good stuff...let me know if you need any more... Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
I will give it one more go -- the seller will refund the price if it doesn't work. My suspicions is that it IS dead as I tried it in a BW G3 Yosemite and got nothing. It should be so much easier to get a cheap, functional card for the Sawtooth that's capable of doing monitor rotation. Dang! On Feb 10, 3:46 pm, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 10, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Feb 10, 2012, at 12:29 PM, Jesse wrote: So does anyone have experience using this card in anything other than the Xserve? It SHOULD just work, as the only difference between this and a retail Radeon 7000, iirc, was the lack of the other ports. Have you tried it on a more modern monitor than the old 19 one? It's remotely possible it's putting out a signal that won't work on the monitor, but my suspicion is that it's a dead card. Yes, they just work. At least as tested through 8.x, 9.x and 10.2 in a beige and with no reports of problems from the 30 or so I sold on the swap list. They use the same drivers and deliver the same performance as the Mac specific retail cards, just without the DVI and S-Video ports. If it is not working after all the standard easy fixes (pram and cuda reset, making sure you have the drivers installed) it is, in the immortal words of one of the great Doctors, Dead Jim (er, Jesse). Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 10, 2012, at 5:06 PM, Jesse wrote: I will give it one more go -- the seller will refund the price if it doesn't work. My suspicions is that it IS dead as I tried it in a BW G3 Yosemite and got nothing. Make sure you use the special video PCI slot when using a BW. It should be so much easier to get a cheap, functional card for the Sawtooth that's capable of doing monitor rotation. I'm still not convinced it's dead yet, it could be a PC card without a Mac ROM. You've never said what System Profiler reports as the ROM version (firmware revision in System Profiler)? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 10, 2:17 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: It SHOULD just work, as the only difference between this and a retail Radeon 7000, iirc, was the lack of the other ports. Have you tried it on a more modern monitor than the old 19 one? It's remotely possible it's putting out a signal that won't work on the monitor, but my suspicion is that it's a dead card. I ran into a similar problem with the Radeon 7000 in a Beige G3 when I used it with a Radius Intellicolor 20e CRT monitor. Unfortunately, that was about seven years ago and I don't remember the details. There was a way for me to get it to work. And I'm not even certain it was with the Radius. Maybe it was with an IBM 18.1 LCD from 2000. At the time I suspected that it had to do with some newish, at the time, signalling system that monitors were using to signal or detect which resolutions were available. And I was able to get around it somehow. I may have done something like using a VGA to Mac adapter coupled with a Mac to VGA adapter. Or maybe booting with extensions off. Once I had the thing booted and the resolution set to a lower level things were fine. The problem appeared to be that the video card defaulted to too high of a resolution for the ones supported by the monitor, or something. It's possible I posted a question about it in one of these lists, so a search of posts back around 2002 - 2005 might turn something up. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
This now makes total sense. I was curious as to why it would only have a VGA out. It wasn't an issue b/c the monitor I'm hooking it into is an old 19 Trinitron (mounted in portrait orientation for a MAME cabinet), so all I needed was VGA. I had a feeling it was mac-specific... every time I did a search on the part number, it always returned as a Mac part. So does anyone have experience using this card in anything other than the Xserve? Also, if it's not working, should I try going through the procedure that people use to force-flash ATI Radeon cards for the PC to try and bring it up to spec? I have an old junker PC that I'm sure would be up to the task but I'm unsure if you can use that method if it technically has already already been used in a Mac (namely the Xserve). Thanks! On Feb 9, 3:42 pm, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 9, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Feb 9, 2012, at 2:21 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: IIRC the very first Xserve's had a VGA-only PCI ATI card, ISTR it was a 32 mb 7000. I was unaware of this card, is it a half-height card or full size? Full size. Looked just like the retail 7000, just had only a vga connector. It was mounted parallel to the main board on a riser I believe. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 10, 2012, at 12:29 PM, Jesse wrote: This now makes total sense. I was curious as to why it would only have a VGA out. It wasn't an issue b/c the monitor I'm hooking it into is an old 19 Trinitron (mounted in portrait orientation for a MAME cabinet), so all I needed was VGA. I had a feeling it was mac-specific... every time I did a search on the part number, it always returned as a Mac part. So does anyone have experience using this card in anything other than the Xserve? It SHOULD just work, as the only difference between this and a retail Radeon 7000, iirc, was the lack of the other ports. Have you tried it on a more modern monitor than the old 19 one? It's remotely possible it's putting out a signal that won't work on the monitor, but my suspicion is that it's a dead card. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 10, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Feb 10, 2012, at 12:29 PM, Jesse wrote: So does anyone have experience using this card in anything other than the Xserve? It SHOULD just work, as the only difference between this and a retail Radeon 7000, iirc, was the lack of the other ports. Have you tried it on a more modern monitor than the old 19 one? It's remotely possible it's putting out a signal that won't work on the monitor, but my suspicion is that it's a dead card. Yes, they just work. At least as tested through 8.x, 9.x and 10.2 in a beige and with no reports of problems from the 30 or so I sold on the swap list. They use the same drivers and deliver the same performance as the Mac specific retail cards, just without the DVI and S-Video ports. If it is not working after all the standard easy fixes (pram and cuda reset, making sure you have the drivers installed) it is, in the immortal words of one of the great Doctors, Dead Jim (er, Jesse). Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On 09/02/2012 16:40, Jesse jesse.wm.wall...@gmail.com wrote: I've run the August 2005 ROM update while booted up in Safe Mode (OS X 10.4.11) and STILL am not having any luck. The card itself is listed as Part Number 109-85500-01 which matches up as the Radeon 7000 Mac version and as far as I can tell there is no reason (outside of card malfunction) that this shouldn't work. Has anyone had this experience, and is there a solution? If you've zapped the pram/nvram and reset the mobo with the cuda and tried all three pci slots probably not - though sometimes a computer/mobo which has been in a set configuration for a long time may refuse to recognize a newly introduced component. The only method I knew for curing this was to remove the battery and disconnect all the components and leave overnight. I've only ever succeeded with the overnight method with a supermac clone (S900? - Umax Pulsar dual?) which would not boot with new ram sticks in.ok next morning - shrug? Who knows why.. Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 9, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Jesse wrote: I've run the August 2005 ROM update while booted up in Safe Mode (OS X 10.4.11) and STILL am not having any luck. And the ROM is identified as what? (should now be v.2.26 I believe). If this is a PC card, there's the possibility that the ROM chip is too small for the OEM Mac ROM, and you'll need a reduced half-size ROM for this Radeon card. Normally the PC Radeon 7000 cards had to be flashed PRIOR to insertion in a Mac with a false starter ROM that changes the ID so that it's recognized in the Mac, but I don't think this is absolutely necessary, so if your card is shown in System Profiler it may flash in the Mac. There should be two individual steps that happen when you run the August 2005 ROM Updater, one is the installation of ATI extensions and the other is the actual flashing of the ROM itself. You probably should deselect all cards EXCEPT the Radeon 7000 so as to not load your System with excess baggage kexts. Also, most of these kexts are outdated compared to the kexts supplied in newer versions of OS X such as Tiger, so after you've run the August 2005 ROM Updater to flash the ROM you need to reinstall the latest Combo Update (probably 10.4.11 PPC Combo Update) so that these old kexts are overwritten by the most recent versions. The card itself is listed as Part Number 109-85500-01 which matches up as the Radeon 7000 Mac version and as far as I can tell there is no reason (outside of card malfunction) that this shouldn't work. This can't be a real Mac card because all the real Mac cards were identical and came with three ports, a DVI, a VGA, and an S-video. Since this card has only one port it's absolutely a PC card. If it has a PC ROM, you may need a PC to force-flash the initial starter Mac ROM. (Note, on PCs they call the card's firmware a BIOS instead of a ROM). Also, if this PC card doesn't have 50ns VRAM chips (look at the VRAM chips, there should be a # on each chip that ends with hopefully a 50 or perhaps something else? If the # the chips end with is 50 you're fine. If it lower than 50, say 40 or 35 you're better than fine and can safely overclock the card. But if the number is GREATER than 50, say 60, or 70, or heaven forbid 75; you've got a slower card and will need to customize the ROM to UNDERCLOCK it because the standard Mac ROM assumes 50ns VRAM chips and will run this slow card too fast causing video artifacts and possible damage to the card itself. Flashing a Radeon 7000 to Mac can be simple, or a real pain in the ass. If you're lucky and your card has the full size ROM chip and 50ns or faster VRAM chips it SHOULD be as easy as inserting into your Mac and running the ROM Updater program (perhaps try in OS 9 if you can get OS X working and you have OS 9?). On the other hand, if the card has the half-size ROM, and has 60ns or slower VRAM, you're doubly screwed and need not only a special reduced ROM, you need a CUSTOMIZED reduced ROM. You should be able to get a reduced ROM, and even a slower customized ROM, at the old MacElite ROM downloads or StrangeDogs archives I think? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 9, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: This can't be a real Mac card because all the real Mac cards were identical and came with three ports, a DVI, a VGA, and an S-video. Since this card has only one port it's absolutely a PC card. If it has a PC ROM, you may need a PC to force-flash the initial starter Mac ROM. (Note, on PCs they call the card's firmware a BIOS instead of a ROM). IIRC the very first Xserve's had a VGA-only PCI ATI card, ISTR it was a 32 mb 7000. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 9, 2012, at 3:21 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Feb 9, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: This can't be a real Mac card because all the real Mac cards were identical and came with three ports, a DVI, a VGA, and an S-video. Since this card has only one port it's absolutely a PC card. If it has a PC ROM, you may need a PC to force-flash the initial starter Mac ROM. (Note, on PCs they call the card's firmware a BIOS instead of a ROM). IIRC the very first Xserve's had a VGA-only PCI ATI card, ISTR it was a 32 mb 7000. That is correct. I bought a bunch off a company that was modifying headless xServes to run headless in navy submarines. Genuine Apple PCI Radeon 7000 with VGA only. Sold a bunch on the swap list and eBay. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 9, 2012, at 2:21 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: IIRC the very first Xserve's had a VGA-only PCI ATI card, ISTR it was a 32 mb 7000. I was unaware of this card, is it a half-height card or full size? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 9, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Feb 9, 2012, at 2:21 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: IIRC the very first Xserve's had a VGA-only PCI ATI card, ISTR it was a 32 mb 7000. I was unaware of this card, is it a half-height card or full size? Full size. Looked just like the retail 7000, just had only a vga connector. It was mounted parallel to the main board on a riser I believe. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
On Feb 9, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Len Gerstel wrote: It was mounted parallel to the main board on a riser I believe. That explains it. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Version 32MB PCI video card not recognized on Sawtooth
You are correct. I am looking at one right now. Had a L-bracket and mounted parallel to the Logic Board. 32mb PCI with one VGA port. -- Kyle Hansen When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro! --Hunter S. Thompson On 2/9/12 12:42 PM, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 9, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Feb 9, 2012, at 2:21 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: IIRC the very first Xserve's had a VGA-only PCI ATI card, ISTR it was a 32 mb 7000. I was unaware of this card, is it a half-height card or full size? Full size. Looked just like the retail 7000, just had only a vga connector. It was mounted parallel to the main board on a riser I believe. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
