Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Ah I see, thanks for clarifying that. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward website while it does have a quick save feature I primarily included it for testing and debugging purposes. Often when testing the game I have to save the game, exit, change a few lines of code, and recompile. By having a quick save feature I can return to the exact place where the bug occures and see if I fixed it or not which obviously saves me the time playing the entire level through getting to that point where the bug occures. However, the final version of MOTA will not have a quick save feature. Instead what it will use is automatic checkpoints similar to what Monkey Business uses. When you begin a new level it will save a checkpoint, but will not give you any special advantages like with a quick save. Hope this clarifies things. Oh, and one more thing about MOTA before I close. Keep in mind it is a beta and several things are subject to change between and the final version. I think all too often people treat betas like full versions, and when you comment like, "doesn't MOTA have a quick save feature," you are talking about temporary code that will be removed in 1.0 final. Its always a good idea not to think of betas as a representative of the final version. Cheers! On 11/27/11, john wrote: No offense, and I totally agree with you here, but isn't the current version of MOTA exactly that, a oh you died, just go back a couple seconds and try again? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Hi John and all, Yes and no. If you mean by current version the latest beta on the website while it does have a quick save feature I primarily included it for testing and debugging purposes. Often when testing the game I have to save the game, exit, change a few lines of code, and recompile. By having a quick save feature I can return to the exact place where the bug occures and see if I fixed it or not which obviously saves me the time playing the entire level through getting to that point where the bug occures. However, the final version of MOTA will not have a quick save feature. Instead what it will use is automatic checkpoints similar to what Monkey Business uses. When you begin a new level it will save a checkpoint, but will not give you any special advantages like with a quick save. Hope this clarifies things. Oh, and one more thing about MOTA before I close. Keep in mind it is a beta and several things are subject to change between and the final version. I think all too often people treat betas like full versions, and when you comment like, "doesn't MOTA have a quick save feature," you are talking about temporary code that will be removed in 1.0 final. Its always a good idea not to think of betas as a representative of the final version. Cheers! On 11/27/11, john wrote: > No offense, and I totally agree with you here, but isn't the > current version of MOTA exactly that, a oh you died, just go back > a couple seconds and try again? > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Hi Dark, Oh, I agree. There is nothing wrong with a game automatically saving the state of the game at the beginning or end of a level because for longer games that take hours to complete you really do need a way to save the game periodically. At the same time it doesn't compromise the game play because if a level is difficult to complete it is not compromised by the ability to save the game whenever and wherever you want. If you die you have to start clear back at your last saved checkpoint. Which usually would be clear back at the beginning of the level. This is exactly what I've started doing in the latest betas of MOTA as a matter of fact. Both MOTA and MOTA 3D now use an automatic checkpoint system where it chooses when and where to save your game. Usually it will always save at the beginning of a new level, and if Angela dies you have to go back to your latest checkpoint--the beginning of that level--and try it again from that point. I've found through private testing it does make the game longer and doesn't take anything away from the difficulty of the game. At the same time it offers periodic saves so if you have to leave for work, class, take a phone call, whatever your progress is at least saved and you can start more or less where your left off. Cheers! On 11/28/11, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > I agree totally on save states and instant respawns, but myself I do enjoy > having save points somewhere in the game simply because they give the chance > to make the game longer. > > super castlevania or the Mario games on super mario all stars save to the > start of the world. this was great sinse it means you have the challenge of > completing three or four levels just on your lives, but if you finish them > your rewarded by knowing you've got one more rung up the ladder and can > effectively stay there as far as your progress goes and don't have to > restart again. > > This for me was always my favourite use of saving, saving at specific points > in the game only to make the game longer, but stil giving you the challenge > of ocmpleting a certain amount of the game on just the lives you have before > saving again. > > I personally would've liked to see a game like Shades or Sarah save only > when you've finished a stage, say by having the save point at the exit, or > having specific save points in the game the way Super metroid did so that > you have to actually run back t each of them in order to save your progress. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Hi, Yeah, I know. I make heavy use of those saved states, because since I can't see the NES/Super NES games any more I have to playh largely by memory and usually screw up several times before I get through a level. In a case like that I don't consider it cheating because I'm using the saved game as an accessibility aid for playing mainstream games. However, were I sighted I think I would make minimal usage of the emulator's saved games because it is more challenging to beat something like Super Mario III by playing it straight through without saved games etc. However, since that feature now exists I'm sure there are plenty of people who use it to cheat there way through when us gamers from the 80's had to do it all without the ability to save games etc. It was hard work, and the gamers of today have no idea what that was like. Cheers! On 11/27/11, Bryan Peterson wrote: > Not only that but nowadays when you emulate, say a game for the NES, there > are save states so even if you died and would normally have started at the > beginning you could just load the save state and be right back where you > died. > They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Hi Tom. I agree totally on save states and instant respawns, but myself I do enjoy having save points somewhere in the game simply because they give the chance to make the game longer. super castlevania or the Mario games on super mario all stars save to the start of the world. this was great sinse it means you have the challenge of completing three or four levels just on your lives, but if you finish them your rewarded by knowing you've got one more rung up the ladder and can effectively stay there as far as your progress goes and don't have to restart again. This for me was always my favourite use of saving, saving at specific points in the game only to make the game longer, but stil giving you the challenge of ocmpleting a certain amount of the game on just the lives you have before saving again. I personally would've liked to see a game like Shades or Sarah save only when you've finished a stage, say by having the save point at the exit, or having specific save points in the game the way Super metroid did so that you have to actually run back t each of them in order to save your progress. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Hi ryan. This is treu as we've said before, but Also, remember that games back then had to be harder simply because they were shorter, otherwise you wouldn't have got your money's worth. I will say though personally, I'm a fan of saving at leaset to the world or level simply because you don't then get entirely board of going through all the other levels first off and redoing what you did before. Indeed, this means now that levels can be longer. One of my favourite pc graphical games is the freeware pc turrican remake t2--2. This is an exploration platformer with very large levels indeed, just like the original. The gameplay is just the same as the old amigar version, right down to the really good music, but because the game now saves to the last finished level, levels can be even longer and more complex, simply because you don't have to now complete them all in one sitting. Myself, while I'm not a fan of quick save states, I do think saving to the last finished stge is really helpful, indeed I have been known to use skip level cheats and so on instead of savepoints myself in older games for that reason. Beware the grue! Dark.level, the later stages th - Original Message - From: "Ryan Strunk" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:19 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp Post note: I had originally intended to put this post in the main thread, but it got so far afield I figured I better chang. subject line. Hi Tom, In the era you and I came from, gamers weren't lazy because they couldn't be. We had situations where you had to start completely over because the technology/memory wasn't there to save progress. Even then, though, there were plenty of ways to start where you left off--passwords, save points, and continues come to mind. In Super Mario Brothers there was the "hold A and press start" trick that let you start at the beginning of the current world. Granted you lost all your points, but at least you didn't have to begin again like poor old Michael Finnegan. And let's not even get started on the Game Genie/Game Shark. In today's situation, the bar has lowered significantly. Quick-saving allows you to start exactly where you left off. In games like L.A. Noire, you can skip a mission automatically if you fail it too many times. In the latest Mario title, if you're playing 2 player and you die, the other player can play through the level until they pass the hard part, then pop your bubble and respawn you instantly. So are blind gamers lazy? Maybe, but not any more so, I think, than mainstream gamers. Most blind gamers never grew up in the "get better or go home" era that you and I did, and they never had to face the frustration of running out of continues. Gamers and blind gamers don't have that hurdle anymore, and I think the industry has suffered for it. Even so, if you never put in "Justin Bailey" to get all the cool weapons and see Samus in her bathing suit, I'll eat my keyboard. Best, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:52 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] swamp Hi Chris, I here you there. Everyone knows dying in a game sucks, but let's get real. Dying in a game should have consiquences and shouldn't mean you just respaun and pick up from where you left off. I've played many games where I have died litterally on the last level fighting the big boss, and have ended up having to start clear back at the start of the game. That seriously bites, but I also had many hours of fun playing and replaying those games trying to beat them. Is it my imagination or are blind gamers just absolutely lazy? Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
No offense, and I totally agree with you here, but isn't the current version of MOTA exactly that, a oh you died, just go back a couple seconds and try again? - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward That makes a lot of sense. You are right that the great games of the 80's and 90's really fostered an attitude of "get better or go home." I can remember spending countless ours at the arcade right next door to I.G.A. playing the arcade games with my friends. We would go through an entire roll of quarters playing Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Packman, Super Mario Brothers, Double Dragon, TMNT, whatever was the hottest game at the time. Thing was standing shoulder to shoulder with your friends playing games encurraged a spirit of challenge, competetiveness, and a desire to win no matter how many times you whiped out x number of levels into the game. I don't remember anyone complaining about having to start over from scratch, because that's just how it was. I guess we just accepted it as a fact of life. Now days this generation of gamers are use to automatic checkpoints or quick saves so if they die a minute later he or she can continue practically from where they left off. Since they never grew up on the 80's arcade machines like I did they don't have the same desire for challenge and determination to keep playing the game as many times as it takes to beat it. As you say I think the games have suffered as a result because the industry has spoiled gamers with an attitude that if you die in the game just reload your saved checkpoint and go on. Too me that defeats the challenge and excitement that was present in so many games from the 80's and 90's. I remember when I was working on Montezuma's Revenge a couple of people complained about being sent back to the beginning of the level. I was a little surprised about them making a big deal of it because that's the way all of the great arcade games from the 80's were. If you lost a life the level reset and you started at the beginning of the level with two lives instead of three. Yet, some gamers thought I was being unreasonable and felt they should respaun where they died. Its like, "people, where's your sense of challenge?" Cheers! On 11/27/11, Ryan Strunk wrote: Post note: I had originally intended to put this post in the main thread, but it got so far afield I figured I better change the subject line. Hi Tom, In the era you and I came from, gamers weren't lazy because they couldn't be. We had situations where you had to start completely over because the technology/memory wasn't there to save progress. Even then, though, there were plenty of ways to start where you left off--passwords, save points, and continues come to mind. In Super Mario Brothers there was the "hold A and press start" trick that let you start at the beginning of the current world. Granted you lost all your points, but at least you didn't have to begin again like poor old Michael Finnegan. And let's not even get started on the Game Genie/Game Shark. In today's situation, the bar has lowered significantly. Quick-saving allows you to start exactly where you left off. In games like L.A. Noire, you can skip a mission automatically if you fail it too many times. In the latest Mario title, if you're playing 2 player and you die, the other player can play through the level until they pass the hard part, then pop your bubble and respawn you instantly. So are blind gamers lazy? Maybe, but not any more so, I think, than mainstream gamers. Most blind gamers never grew up in the "get better or go home" era that you and I did, and they never had to face the frustration of running out of continues. Gamers and blind gamers don't have that hurdle anymore, and I think the industry has suffered for it. Even so, if you never put in "Justin Bailey" to get all the cool weapons and see Samus in her bathing suit, I'll eat my keyboard. Best, Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Not only that but nowadays when you emulate, say a game for the NES, there are save states so even if you died and would normally have started at the beginning you could just load the save state and be right back where you died. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp Hi Ryan, That makes a lot of sense. You are right that the great games of the 80's and 90's really fostered an attitude of "get better or go home." I can remember spending countless ours at the arcade right next door to I.G.A. playing the arcade games with my friends. We would go through an entire roll of quarters playing Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Packman, Super Mario Brothers, Double Dragon, TMNT, whatever was the hottest game at the time. Thing was standing shoulder to shoulder with your friends playing games encurraged a spirit of challenge, competetiveness, and a desire to win no matter how many times you whiped out x number of levels into the game. I don't remember anyone complaining about having to start over from scratch, because that's just how it was. I guess we just accepted it as a fact of life. Now days this generation of gamers are use to automatic checkpoints or quick saves so if they die a minute later he or she can continue practically from where they left off. Since they never grew up on the 80's arcade machines like I did they don't have the same desire for challenge and determination to keep playing the game as many times as it takes to beat it. As you say I think the games have suffered as a result because the industry has spoiled gamers with an attitude that if you die in the game just reload your saved checkpoint and go on. Too me that defeats the challenge and excitement that was present in so many games from the 80's and 90's. I remember when I was working on Montezuma's Revenge a couple of people complained about being sent back to the beginning of the level. I was a little surprised about them making a big deal of it because that's the way all of the great arcade games from the 80's were. If you lost a life the level reset and you started at the beginning of the level with two lives instead of three. Yet, some gamers thought I was being unreasonable and felt they should respaun where they died. Its like, "people, where's your sense of challenge?" Cheers! On 11/27/11, Ryan Strunk wrote: Post note: I had originally intended to put this post in the main thread, but it got so far afield I figured I better change the subject line. Hi Tom, In the era you and I came from, gamers weren't lazy because they couldn't be. We had situations where you had to start completely over because the technology/memory wasn't there to save progress. Even then, though, there were plenty of ways to start where you left off--passwords, save points, and continues come to mind. In Super Mario Brothers there was the "hold A and press start" trick that let you start at the beginning of the current world. Granted you lost all your points, but at least you didn't have to begin again like poor old Michael Finnegan. And let's not even get started on the Game Genie/Game Shark. In today's situation, the bar has lowered significantly. Quick-saving allows you to start exactly where you left off. In games like L.A. Noire, you can skip a mission automatically if you fail it too many times. In the latest Mario title, if you're playing 2 player and you die, the other player can play through the level until they pass the hard part, then pop your bubble and respawn you instantly. So are blind gamers lazy? Maybe, but not any more so, I think, than mainstream gamers. Most blind gamers never grew up in the "get better or go home" era that you and I did, and they never had to face the frustration of running out of continues. Gamers and blind gamers don't have that hurdle anymore, and I think the industry has suffered for it. Even so, if you never put in "Justin Bailey" to get all the cool weapons and see Samus in her bathing suit, I'll eat my keyboard. Best, Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can ma
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Hi Charles, HOne would think so, but then again games aren't reality. Common sense doesn't necessarily apply because it is virtual reality where anything is possible. Cheers! On 11/27/11, Charles Rivard wrote: > Also, how about common sense? When you die, heh heh heh, aren't you dead? > Start over. > > --- > "Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord." --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Also, how about common sense? When you die, heh heh heh, aren't you dead? Start over. --- "Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord." - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp Hi Ryan, That makes a lot of sense. You are right that the great games of the 80's and 90's really fostered an attitude of "get better or go home." I can remember spending countless ours at the arcade right next door to I.G.A. playing the arcade games with my friends. We would go through an entire roll of quarters playing Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Packman, Super Mario Brothers, Double Dragon, TMNT, whatever was the hottest game at the time. Thing was standing shoulder to shoulder with your friends playing games encurraged a spirit of challenge, competetiveness, and a desire to win no matter how many times you whiped out x number of levels into the game. I don't remember anyone complaining about having to start over from scratch, because that's just how it was. I guess we just accepted it as a fact of life. Now days this generation of gamers are use to automatic checkpoints or quick saves so if they die a minute later he or she can continue practically from where they left off. Since they never grew up on the 80's arcade machines like I did they don't have the same desire for challenge and determination to keep playing the game as many times as it takes to beat it. As you say I think the games have suffered as a result because the industry has spoiled gamers with an attitude that if you die in the game just reload your saved checkpoint and go on. Too me that defeats the challenge and excitement that was present in so many games from the 80's and 90's. I remember when I was working on Montezuma's Revenge a couple of people complained about being sent back to the beginning of the level. I was a little surprised about them making a big deal of it because that's the way all of the great arcade games from the 80's were. If you lost a life the level reset and you started at the beginning of the level with two lives instead of three. Yet, some gamers thought I was being unreasonable and felt they should respaun where they died. Its like, "people, where's your sense of challenge?" Cheers! On 11/27/11, Ryan Strunk wrote: Post note: I had originally intended to put this post in the main thread, but it got so far afield I figured I better change the subject line. Hi Tom, In the era you and I came from, gamers weren't lazy because they couldn't be. We had situations where you had to start completely over because the technology/memory wasn't there to save progress. Even then, though, there were plenty of ways to start where you left off--passwords, save points, and continues come to mind. In Super Mario Brothers there was the "hold A and press start" trick that let you start at the beginning of the current world. Granted you lost all your points, but at least you didn't have to begin again like poor old Michael Finnegan. And let's not even get started on the Game Genie/Game Shark. In today's situation, the bar has lowered significantly. Quick-saving allows you to start exactly where you left off. In games like L.A. Noire, you can skip a mission automatically if you fail it too many times. In the latest Mario title, if you're playing 2 player and you die, the other player can play through the level until they pass the hard part, then pop your bubble and respawn you instantly. So are blind gamers lazy? Maybe, but not any more so, I think, than mainstream gamers. Most blind gamers never grew up in the "get better or go home" era that you and I did, and they never had to face the frustration of running out of continues. Gamers and blind gamers don't have that hurdle anymore, and I think the industry has suffered for it. Even so, if you never put in "Justin Bailey" to get all the cool weapons and see Samus in her bathing suit, I'll eat my keyboard. Best, Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gam
Re: [Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Hi Ryan, That makes a lot of sense. You are right that the great games of the 80's and 90's really fostered an attitude of "get better or go home." I can remember spending countless ours at the arcade right next door to I.G.A. playing the arcade games with my friends. We would go through an entire roll of quarters playing Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Packman, Super Mario Brothers, Double Dragon, TMNT, whatever was the hottest game at the time. Thing was standing shoulder to shoulder with your friends playing games encurraged a spirit of challenge, competetiveness, and a desire to win no matter how many times you whiped out x number of levels into the game. I don't remember anyone complaining about having to start over from scratch, because that's just how it was. I guess we just accepted it as a fact of life. Now days this generation of gamers are use to automatic checkpoints or quick saves so if they die a minute later he or she can continue practically from where they left off. Since they never grew up on the 80's arcade machines like I did they don't have the same desire for challenge and determination to keep playing the game as many times as it takes to beat it. As you say I think the games have suffered as a result because the industry has spoiled gamers with an attitude that if you die in the game just reload your saved checkpoint and go on. Too me that defeats the challenge and excitement that was present in so many games from the 80's and 90's. I remember when I was working on Montezuma's Revenge a couple of people complained about being sent back to the beginning of the level. I was a little surprised about them making a big deal of it because that's the way all of the great arcade games from the 80's were. If you lost a life the level reset and you started at the beginning of the level with two lives instead of three. Yet, some gamers thought I was being unreasonable and felt they should respaun where they died. Its like, "people, where's your sense of challenge?" Cheers! On 11/27/11, Ryan Strunk wrote: > Post note: I had originally intended to put this post in the main thread, > but it got so far afield I figured I better change the subject line. > > Hi Tom, > In the era you and I came from, gamers weren't lazy because they couldn't > be. We had situations where you had to start completely over because the > technology/memory wasn't there to save progress. Even then, though, there > were plenty of ways to start where you left off--passwords, save points, and > continues come to mind. In Super Mario Brothers there was the "hold A and > press start" trick that let you start at the beginning of the current world. > Granted you lost all your points, but at least you didn't have to begin > again like poor old Michael Finnegan. > And let's not even get started on the Game Genie/Game Shark. > In today's situation, the bar has lowered significantly. Quick-saving allows > you to start exactly where you left off. In games like L.A. Noire, you can > skip a mission automatically if you fail it too many times. In the latest > Mario title, if you're playing 2 player and you die, the other player can > play through the level until they pass the hard part, then pop your bubble > and respawn you instantly. > So are blind gamers lazy? Maybe, but not any more so, I think, than > mainstream gamers. Most blind gamers never grew up in the "get better or go > home" era that you and I did, and they never had to face the frustration of > running out of continues. Gamers and blind gamers don't have that hurdle > anymore, and I think the industry has suffered for it. > Even so, if you never put in "Justin Bailey" to get all the cool weapons and > see Samus in her bathing suit, I'll eat my keyboard. > Best, > Ryan > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Game Difficulty was RE: swamp
Post note: I had originally intended to put this post in the main thread, but it got so far afield I figured I better change the subject line. Hi Tom, In the era you and I came from, gamers weren't lazy because they couldn't be. We had situations where you had to start completely over because the technology/memory wasn't there to save progress. Even then, though, there were plenty of ways to start where you left off--passwords, save points, and continues come to mind. In Super Mario Brothers there was the "hold A and press start" trick that let you start at the beginning of the current world. Granted you lost all your points, but at least you didn't have to begin again like poor old Michael Finnegan. And let's not even get started on the Game Genie/Game Shark. In today's situation, the bar has lowered significantly. Quick-saving allows you to start exactly where you left off. In games like L.A. Noire, you can skip a mission automatically if you fail it too many times. In the latest Mario title, if you're playing 2 player and you die, the other player can play through the level until they pass the hard part, then pop your bubble and respawn you instantly. So are blind gamers lazy? Maybe, but not any more so, I think, than mainstream gamers. Most blind gamers never grew up in the "get better or go home" era that you and I did, and they never had to face the frustration of running out of continues. Gamers and blind gamers don't have that hurdle anymore, and I think the industry has suffered for it. Even so, if you never put in "Justin Bailey" to get all the cool weapons and see Samus in her bathing suit, I'll eat my keyboard. Best, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:52 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] swamp Hi Chris, I here you there. Everyone knows dying in a game sucks, but let's get real. Dying in a game should have consiquences and shouldn't mean you just respaun and pick up from where you left off. I've played many games where I have died litterally on the last level fighting the big boss, and have ended up having to start clear back at the start of the game. That seriously bites, but I also had many hours of fun playing and replaying those games trying to beat them. Is it my imagination or are blind gamers just absolutely lazy? Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
