[ANNOUNCE] HiveMind 1.1-alpha-1
The first alpha release of HiveMind (http://jakarta.apache.org/hivemind/) 1.1 is now available. HiveMind is a simple, elegant, powerful general-purpose infrastructure for Java applications. This early preview release includes service(and configuration) visibility, explicit module dependencies, serialization of services, improved exception reporting and many other features and bug fixes. HiveMind is available as a combined binary/source release: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.cgi#hivemind-current - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Photoshop for the Apache Logo
Does anyone know where the (presumably) Photoshop files are for the Apache logo (with the feather)? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Jakarta Tapestry Creator, Jakarta HiveMind http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Maven Repository Status
I've been asked to mirror the Tapestry and HiveMind libraries, but haven't been able to find docs on the web about how to do so. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components Creator, HiveMind http://howardlewisship.com -Original Message- From: Mark R. Diggory [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 10:38 AM To: Avalon Developers List; Jakarta Commons Developers List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Maven Repository Status I just wanted to drop everyone a note to let you know that I made the rsync of the java-repository between Apache and Ibiblio much more stable this week. It now occurs every 4 hours (EST 12am, 4am, 8am ...). If you ever encounter issues with your jars not getting synced into ibiblio, please contact me. -Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Hibernate in Apache projects
This is a good subject w.r.t. Tapestry and HiveMind as well. The previous restriction (ASL 1.1) was that we could not even code against their packages. Under ASL 2.0, we merely can't repackage their JARs? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components Creator, HiveMind http://howardlewisship.com -Original Message- From: David Sean Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Hibernate in Apache projects The Jetspeed team would like to use the Hibernate open source project in our project. http://www.hibernate.org/ I've been reading through the licensing and Im not entirely sure if its compatible with the Apache license. I think I've seen where Turbine now works with Hibernate. Could some one clearly tell us: can we use Hibernate in Apache projects? Thanks, -- David Sean Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apache Portals http://portals.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tapestry 3.0 Final Release
Tapestry 3.0 final release is now available. Please see the Jakarta Home page for more details! -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components Creator, HiveMind http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tapestry 3.0-rc-3
Tapestry 3.0-rc-3 is ready for download from the standard places. This release fixes some bugs discovered in the prior release candidates, and includes some documentation updates. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components Creator, HiveMind http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tapestry 3.0 RC2
The second release candidate for Tapestry 3.0 is now available. This release fixes a few bugs, most notably, problems deploying the example applications. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project
I agree with Phil's nit about the term Jakarta Commons incubator, there ain't no such thing and we shouldn't try to put the commons sandbox on the same level as the pache Incubator. That was just an unfortunate phrasing that I didn't catch before submitting the proposal. Didn't mean to imply anything or mandate anything or create anything that isn't already there. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project
[X] +1 I support this proposal (BINDING) [ ] -1 I don't support this proposal [ ] 0 I abstain from voting for or against this proposal -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://howardlewisship.com -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:59 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: [VOTE] HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project All Jakarta Community Members : Howard M. Lewis Ship, on behalf of the committers of the HiveMind project in the Jakarta Commons sandbox, has proposed HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project. The proposal was sent to this list, a copy of which can be found here : http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg09244.html Please read the proposal and vote, and add any comments you deem appropriate. All Jakarta community members are encouraged to vote, although only the votes of the PMC members are legally binding as per the ASF*. [ ] +1 I support this proposal [ ] -1 I don't support this proposal [ ] 0 I abstain from voting for or against this proposal Comments : * If the bit about PMC members having binding votes bothers you, solve the problem by indicating interest in joining the PMC :) -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [DISCUSS] HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project
-- Very nice voting. If my memory serves me correctly, [PROPOSAL] HiveMind in the sandbox came to commons-dev at the end of May, 2003. It took 9 months - enough time passed for the bless of the outgrowing of Hivemind into Jakarta Proper. People did want this time to come. -- HiveMind seems to scratch an itch a lot of people have. I expect it to be pretty widely adopted as a light-weight infrastructure at Jakarta and elsewhere. It could have happened quicky for my taste (the whole WebCT delay thing, especially), but the timing is really good for me now, so it's all working out. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proposal: Jakarta HiveMind Project
Proposal for Jakarta HiveMind Project (0) Rationale HiveMind is a simple framework for creating pluggable, configurable, reusable services. Simple: HiveMind is a way to create a network of services in terms of Java interfaces and classes; it cherry picks the most useful ideas from Service Oriented Architectures such as J2EE, JMX and SOAP, but removes the aspects that are typically overkill for most applications, such as service remoteability and language neutrality. HiveMind creates a natural network of related services and configuration data, all operating within a single JVM. Pluggable: HiveMind enforces a complete separation of service definition and implementation. This is manifested by a division of services into an interface definition and a service implementation as well as a split between defining a service (as part of a HiveMind module) and providing the implementation of that service (potentially, in a different module). Configurable: HiveMind integrates a service oriented architecture to a sophisticated configuration architecture; the configuration architecture is adapted from the Eclipse plug-in model, wherein modules may define configuration extension points and multiple modules may provide contributions to those extension points. Reusable: HiveMind is a framework and container, but not an application. The HiveMind framework and the services it provides may be easily combined with application-specific services and configurations for use in disparate applications. The API for HiveMind allows thread-safe, easy access to services and configurations with a minimal amount of code. The value-add for HiveMind is not just runtime flexibility: it is overall developer productivity. HiveMind systems will entail less code; key functionality that is frequently an after-thought, such as parsing of XML configuration files, logging of method invocations, and lazy creation of services, is handled by the HiveMind framework in a consistent, robust, and well-documented manner. HiveMind fits into an area that partially overlaps the Apache Avalon project, with significant differences. HiveMind's concept of a distributed configuration is unique among the available service microkernels (Avalon, Keel, Spring, PicoContainer, etc.). Avalon is firmly rooted in a Service Lookup pattern (whereby collaborating services must explicitly, in code, resolve dependencies between each other using a lookup pattern similar to JNDI). HiveMind uses the Dependency Injection pattern, whereby the framework (acting as container) creates connections between services by setting properties of the services (property injection) or making use of particular constructors for the services (constructor injection). HiveMind represents a generous donation of code to the ASF by WebCT (http://www.webct.com). HiveMind originated from internal requirements for a flexible, loosely-coupled configuration management and services framework for WebCT's industry-leading flagship enterprise e-learning product, Vista. Several individuals in WebCT's research and development team in addition to Mr. Howard Lewis Ship contributed to the requirements and concepts behind HiveMind's current set of functionality including Martin Bayly, Diane Bennett, Bill Bilic, Michael Kerr, Prashant Nayak, Bill Richard and Ajay Sharda. HiveMind is already in use as a significant part of Vista. (1) Scope of the package The package shall entail a core framework JAR (containing essential classes and services), a standard library JAR (containing generically useful services), along with ancillary artifacts such as Ant tasks and/or Maven plug-ins and, of course, documentation, all distributed under the Apache Software License. (1.1) Interaction with other packages HiveMind has dependencies on several standard commons packages, including commons-lang and commons-logging. HiveMind makes use of the Javassist bytecode generation library, which is available under the MPL (Mozilla public license). (2) Identify the initial source for the package The initial code base has been developed by Howard M. Lewis Ship within the Jakarta Commons incubator. http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/hivemind Note: HiveMind was originally considered for inclusion as part of Jakarta commons. Subsequent research has shown that HiveMind is not a suitable candidate for the commons, and is more appropriate for a top-level Jakarta project. (2.1) Identify the base name for the package org.apache.hivemind (2.2) Identify the coding conventions for this package The code follows a modified version of Sun's standard coding conventions, with the following stylistic changes: - instance variables are prefixed with an underscore - a newline is inserted before all braces (3) Identify any Jakarta resources to be created (3.1) mailing lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- User discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Developer discussions and CVS update notifications (3.2) CVS
HiveMind software grant faxed -- received?
Prashant faxed the HiveMind software grant last week, but we've heard no word of it being recieved. I'm anxious for this to happen so that we can, for starters, bring the HiveMind CVS and home page back up. Who is the person who actually receives the fax? What is the process once he or she receives it? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: HiveMind software grant faxed -- received?
OK, that's step 1 ... what are the remaining steps? How do we proceed from here? Action items: Restore HiveMind home page Restore HiveMind CVS Resubmit HiveMind proposal -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://howardlewisship.com -Original Message- From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:08 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: HiveMind software grant faxed -- received? Prashant faxed the HiveMind software grant last week, but we've heard no word of it being recieved. It was recorded on 23FEB2004 as received. That would be yesterday. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HiveMind] There's that grant!
I guess this is as much of a notification as we get? In any case, the grant appears to have been recorded. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://howardlewisship.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 1:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: cvs commit: foundation grants.txt jim 2004/02/23 10:40:07 Modified:.grants.txt Log: Add in HiveMind and WSS4J Revision ChangesPath 1.8 +7 -0 foundation/grants.txt Index: grants.txt === RCS file: /home/cvs/foundation/grants.txt,v retrieving revision 1.7 retrieving revision 1.8 diff -u -r1.7 -r1.8 --- grants.txt 19 Feb 2004 14:21:49 - 1.7 +++ grants.txt 23 Feb 2004 18:40:07 - 1.8 @@ -148,3 +148,10 @@ mod_asp.net - loadable Apache module Covalent.web - loadable Microsoft.Net interfaces +WebCT Inc. / Christopher M. Vento + HiveMind + +Werner Dittman + Software modules and documentation of the Web Service Security +for Java (WSS4J) project + - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [HiveMind] There's that grant!
Discussing things with Prashant ... because of the four month gap, we think it would be wise to resubmit the proposal. Part of the proposal discusses the current code base and home page; the code base was being stored in Apache CVS but that was brought out pending the software grant. I'm hoping that can be restored. Likewise, the home page was brought down. If necessary, the proposal can be pointed to the temporary home page I've set up, but I'd prefer to get HiveMind live, so it can be examined by interested parties, before we initiate a new vote. In addition, I have a considerable number of code changes trapped on my home workstation, waiting for a CVS server to become available. This includes changing the license to ASL 2.0 and changing the root package from org.apache.commons.hivemind to org.apache.hivemind. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://howardlewisship.com -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:17 PM To: Jakarta General List Cc: 'Nayak, Prashant' Subject: Re: [HiveMind] There's that grant! On Feb 24, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote: I guess this is as much of a notification as we get? In any case, the grant appears to have been recorded. Fabulous. Since I believe that your intention is to make it a Jakarta sub-project, the Jakarta PMC should vote to accept or reject it's addition to Jakarta. If you agree, then we should probably do this first, and assuming success, approach Incubator with the project and the wish of Jakarta to host the project once it passes all incubator requirements. Comments? geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Proposal] HiveMind Service Framework
I prefer to see Hivemind established as a community (as far as I know Howard is the only member of the community ATM) before exploring as you say. I see no reason to deprive Howard of the opportunity to establish Hivemind and build a community. That's what is, in fact, surprising to me ... a small community for HiveMind formed pretty much spontaneously. Like Tapestry, the bulk of the code is from me, but some very significant design ideas, naming conventions and techniques have come form the community and/or been voted on by the nascent community. What I would like to do is to hear from Howard himself (or anyone working on the HiveMind project)! I'm particularly interested in how Avalon can leverage some of the technologies in HiveMind, and I'm equally confident in the ability of Avalon to provide value-add to the HimeMind project - and I'm not talking about classic avalon component interfaces - I'm talking about generic container-side facilities. The is a potential for mutual benefit. Isn't that worth exploring? I aggree with Andy's comments below ... you can't incubate HiveMind inside Avalon. My Blob (http://javatapestry.blogspot.com) discusses this as well, with some other insights (partly into my own neuroticism). Avalon is a community - and within that community is an effort to harmonize different directions in component models taking into account the differences across internal development, and external iniatives. HiveMind is another aspect in that picture. This means more potential, leveraged code, skills, knowledge, users, etc. I happen to think that there is potential in getting together and talking about things like leverage, synergy, projects, etc. I've considered HiveMind an experiment, and experiment that concludes when the community is formed and the code is mature. The nature of open source and the ASL is very fluid; the best ideas from HiveMind can be cherry-picked from the mature codebase. What I'm nervous about is bringing HiveMind into Avalon and mucking up other people's code with my vision. While Hivemind is a virgin idea that needs community building, and is not ready for Jakarta -- it is surely not ready for Avalon either. I would be against its entry into Jakarta ATM (and I doubt Howard would propose it). However, I think it is ripe for foundry at jakarta commons or some place appropriate for starting a community. Obviously it should be watched for eventual entry as a Jakarta project. Howard is obviously now qualified to sponsor it in the incubator himself (as I've pretty much vowed never to incubate anything ever again, I'd rather focus my efforts outside of Apache than go through that quagmire of bureaucratic procedure again**). Well, the incubator will be a challenge but there will be explicit rules for leaving incubation and I won't tolerate the incubators going beyond their mandate. The mandate is to show an active community working together and to ensure that there are no IP problems in HiveMind or its depdendant libraries. We will ensure that the mandate and exit rules are explicit before we start. Howard - can you do me a favour and kick of a thread actually detailing what we want - and throw into it what you think or don't think should be your relationship with Avalon. Please keep in mind that everything I've seen so far suggests that you have a 12-18 out-of-date picture of what avalon is and what avalon is doing - and I want to clear that up. I suggested you post a message on [EMAIL PROTECTED] as part of the process. I still think that that the right place to discuss this. I have a backlog of avalon-dev mail to catch up on. As an Avalon principal, I can assure you that Avalon is not a threat to the potential of an independent HiveMind project (irrespective of Andrew's ideas of reality). Start talking with us (here or there) and you may find an ally. Of course, while the HiveMind IP fiasco resolves itself, I have some spare time to catch up. To be honest, one of the things that has been an issue for me is the Avalon documentation; many of my questions aren't resolved by the docs I could find, and I have been short on time for wading into the code. Howard - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Proposal] HiveMind Service Framework
I'm moniroting the avalon dev list. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/hivemind/ http://javatapestry.blogspot.com -Original Message- From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen McConnell Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Proposal] HiveMind Service Framework [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've put up a limited copy of the HiveMind documentation on my personal home page: Howard: Are you open to the idea of discussing some mutual areas of interest? There are a number of aspects of the work you are doing that are complimentary with the work on-going in Avalon, and several areas in Avalon which after review your material are complimentary with your own efforts. Can I get you to sign up to the avalon dev list bacause I would very much like to discuss this further together with other members of the Avalon crew. Details for the Avalon dev list are available at the following URL: http://avalon.apache.org/mailing-lists.html I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Cheers, Stephen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ANNOUNCE] Tapestry 3.0-beta-2 Released
Tapestry 3.0-beta-2 is now available. This release fixes a number of bugs, is compatible with Jakarta FileUpload 1.0, and has some significant improvements related to localization. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination
Did anything every happen on this? I remember ACO sending out a message, but I don't know if it every made it to a vote. I'd really like to pursue this, because of my instatiable craving for power. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The vendors page
I'm tending towards the argument that if you can convince someone who has the right access to update the vendors.xml page, then you deserve to be on the list. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry -Original Message- From: Steven Noels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:37 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: The vendors page On 2/07/2003 11:13 Santiago Gala wrote: I would not say you employ, but just convince one jakarta commiter to make the change. This would ensure at least some level of communication (like sending it to the project -dev list and discussing it there, etc.) +1 on being present on the list and discussing things snip/ the project committers should be aware of them existing and supporting the project. Yep - so basically this should be decided on a subproject-level in Jakarta's case. I doubt *anyone* is able to support *all* Jakarta subprojects on a level that he/she serves his customers well. Suggestion: move this page away from the Jakarta main site, and stimulate subprojects to host their own vendor pages. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The vendors page
Perhaps over time, he would get known and accepted in the community and someone would choose to nominate him for committer priviledges. Obviously, that is something that Collabra would have very little control over. If you have someone with talent and a decent amount of time to spend, my experience is that they can become a committer pretty quickly. If they are providing quality mentoring and patches, it quickly becomes easier to vote them in as a committer than to manually apply their patches. So if your primary goal is to establish Collabra's rep and your incidental goal is to be listed on the vendors page, start now and see results soon. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Proposal: XMLBeans
around [http://sourceforge.net/projects/dqsd/ Dave's Quick Search Deskbar]. ''Homogenous developers:'' The current list of committers represents developers from companies such as BEA, Federal Express, and Reuters, as well as one independent volunteer. Of the nine committers listed below, they work in five different states (no international committers yet). No more than two work in the same city. ''Reliance on salaried developers:'' * One of our committers is volunteering to work on XMLBeans. * Two of the committers are not paid by their employers to develop XMLBeans; however, in the interest of full disclosure, their employers do consider XMLBeans an important technology to their business. * The others are, in fact, actually paid to work on XMLBeans. Finally, over the last six months, we have gotten interest from thousands of other developers. We hope to interest many of them in volunteering to contribute to this project. ''No ties to other Apache products:'' XMLBeans shares similar licensing and complementary technologies to other Apache projects. What licensing to you currently use? LGPL is a problem, BSD or ASL is the way to go. (Pardon me if this is on the pages you've linked to ... I haven't clicked through yet). ''A fascination with the Apache brand:'' The committers are interested in developing a healthy open source community around XMLBeans, whether Apache is the right place or not. However, we believe that this subproject would complement others in both the Jakarta and XML Apache projects, and would make the larger community stronger as a result. BEA is committed to supporting the future open source development of XMLBeans and continuing to distribute the result of that development with future releases of its Weblogic Workshop product. '''(1) scope of the subproject''' * XML Schema binding to Java classes * Efficient, low-level XML access * XML Schema validation For more detailed information, see: * [http://workshop.bea.com/xmlbeans/quickStart.jsp BEA's quick start page], or * [http://dev2dev.bea.com/articles/hitesh_seth.jsp XML-Journal's review of XMLBeans]. '''(2) identify the initial source from which the subproject is to be populated''' *http://workshop.bea.com/xmlbeans/XsdUpload.jsp Note: This source currently includes the [http://piccolo.sourceforge.net/ Piccolo parser], which is licensed under LGPL. We are already planning to swap this out for a parser licensed under Apache-like terms. '''(3) identify the ASF resources to be created ''' '''(3.1) mailing list(s) ''' * xmlbeans-dev * xmlbeans-user '''(3.2) CVS repositories ''' * jakarta-xmlbeans or xml-xmlbeans '''(3.3) Bugzilla ''' * jakarta xmlbeans or xml xmlbeans '''(4) identify the initial set of committers ''' * Cezar Andrei ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * David Bau ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Tim Hanson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Ken Kress ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Laurence Moroney ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * David Remy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Cliff Schmidt ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Eric Vasilik ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Robert Wyrick ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) '''(5) identify apache sponsoring individual ''' * Steven Noels ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) That's a good step! '''(6) open issues for discussion''' * Which community would benefit more from this work: XML or Jakarta? * Should XMLBeans start in the Incubator project? * If an Incubator stage is suggested, should the process of replacing our current LGPL parser with an Apache-compatible parser begin before or during incubation? I'd be interested to know why you feel the project will benefit from hosting at Jakarta? My personal experience with Tapestry is that the move to Jakarta was good for exposure ... but Tapestry, regretably, did not have a major player (such as BEA) backing it. Eclipse, for example, self-hosts, yet is taken very seriously as an open source project. I'd say you'd want to do as much setup before incubation as possible. This includes normalizing your code layout (something that didn't materialize for Tapestry, unfortunately) to match the other Jakarta projects (this will ease things if and when you transition to Maven builds). You probably want to check out a bit about Gump as well ... I can think of one person who will probably veto you until you are integrated into Gump. It's *exceptionally* painful to work with Gump at the moment, but ultimately worth it. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Adminitrivia: Assigning new bugs to the list
Currently, new Tapestry bugs are all assigned to me, personally. I would prefer that new bugs be assigned to the Tapestry developer list. Is there a way to do this cleanly in BugZilla, or do I create a fake user ([EMAIL PROTECTED])? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Adminitrivia: Assigning new bugs to the list
Thanks. My next challenge is to bootstrap this. I suspect the mail from bugzilla.org with the password for user [EMAIL PROTECTED] is being eaten by EZLM. I can't subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to the list, because EZLM sends a confirmation message to bugzilla that is ignored by bugzilla. Catch-22. Is there a way around this, or must I prostrate myself before infrastructure? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:07 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Adminitrivia: Assigning new bugs to the list On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote: Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:44:26 -0500 From: Howard M. Lewis Ship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Adminitrivia: Assigning new bugs to the list Currently, new Tapestry bugs are all assigned to me, personally. I would prefer that new bugs be assigned to the Tapestry developer list. Is there a way to do this cleanly in BugZilla, or do I create a fake user ([EMAIL PROTECTED])? The latter is how we've done it for several other projects, and seems to work fine. You'll probably want to disable the fake user's login after it's created, so that nobody accidentally uses that account. Craig - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ASL and source code examples
Something just struck me about the ASL. I'm writing a book on Tapestry and, in the later chapters, I'm dissecting a Tapestry application. I chose the Virtual Library, which is distributed under the ASL as part of the Tapestry distribution. What are my obligations as pertains to including portions of the Vlib source code in the book? Do I have to maintain that long ASL copyright message in the listings or just provide a general notice that all the examples as covered under the ASL? Is this usage covered under some kind of fair use clause (or generally accepted practice)? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Proposal] SuperXMailer
eb site and additional examples. [2] identify the initial source from which the project is to be populated The project currently resides on the SourceForge (http://tapestry.sf.net). My wife says I sometimes code in my sleep. Now I know what I've been up-to :-) Gotta watch that cut-n-paste! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tapestry download
I have to figure out all the business with signing the distributions. On my todo list. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry -Original Message- From: Stefan Bodewig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs/site news.xml On 24 Mar 2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Modified:docs/site news.html xdocsindex.xml docs index.html xdocs/site news.xml Log: Tapestry 2.4-alpha-5 release Howard, you will probably want to add Tapestry to the download pages as well. Stefan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Eyebrowse problem?
Point taken. I'll pursue this there. I don't expect things to happen at the snap of my fingers, I just want feedback that issues are being resolved. I'll make that case at infrastructure. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 7:47 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Eyebrowse problem? Hi Howard, Lets get a few things straight. This isn't a Jakarta thing. Apache expands beyond Jakarta. In fact this is not the proper place for this request. The proper place is [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Please note that I would be happy to help with this, however I do not have the necessary karma or probably even the expertise. Please take note of the tone of your email. I understand your frustration, this is a volunteer organization, and while the volunteer system works well for software, it is not always great for infrastructure. Regardless, this is where we are. You're asking for someone to do you a favor and fix eyebrowse. Do you feel your tone does it in a way that will motivate them to do so? Let us now address the bugzilla issue. I've noted my preference for this as well, however, I do not currently have the bandwidth necessary to drive the discussion towards that. You, however, are empowered to do so! Join the infrastructure list and start the discussion. I would suggest that in order to be effective, you describe the problem (calmly), describe the solution, the best alternative and why you feel bugzilla would be appropriate. Inevitably someone will argue against it or just for the status quo. Through persistance, offering to help manage it, etc, your issue may be addressed. Complaining about jakarta on this mail list will probably just peeve people off and serve you nothing, although you're certainly welcome to try it. Is this the most judicious use of your (and others') time? A man once said You decide. -Andy Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote: Many of my users have complained that Tapestry is no longer being archived. I did a little poke around eyebrowse, and not only is Tapestry not archived, none of the lists seems to have been updated since late february. Once again, its all chaos at Jakarta. I don't understand why the folks with the capabilities and responsibilities to handle infrastructure issues and requests don't take five minutes to set up a BugZilla category for these things. Instead, it is left to endless e-mails, no tracking, nothing gets done ... -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry -Original Message- From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 6:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Magesh Umasankar Subject: Re: Eyebrowse problem? On 20/3/03 21:03 Magesh Umasankar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All I get when trying to look up any archived message thread is $msgHeaders as the meat of it. What is going on? We're aware of it... Will be fixed hopefully soon... Pier - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Eyebrowse problem?
Many of my users have complained that Tapestry is no longer being archived. I did a little poke around eyebrowse, and not only is Tapestry not archived, none of the lists seems to have been updated since late february. Once again, its all chaos at Jakarta. I don't understand why the folks with the capabilities and responsibilities to handle infrastructure issues and requests don't take five minutes to set up a BugZilla category for these things. Instead, it is left to endless e-mails, no tracking, nothing gets done ... -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry -Original Message- From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 6:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Magesh Umasankar Subject: Re: Eyebrowse problem? On 20/3/03 21:03 Magesh Umasankar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All I get when trying to look up any archived message thread is $msgHeaders as the meat of it. What is going on? We're aware of it... Will be fixed hopefully soon... Pier - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta: too many similar projects?
Well - that's one way to describe it. The other way is that the JCP is how innovations are brought to the platform - the innovation was done before you tried to make a JSR. For example, Jason Hunter is running a JSR for JDOM. JDOM was done, and the benefits of the software clear, before he proposed the JSR JDom is an odd choice to support your side of the argument. JDom going the JSR route has killed forward progress on it for at nearly a year. It could have been a year of furious effort on their parts during which great advances were made, or they could have simply s/org.jdom/javax.xml.jdom/g and wasted the rest in burachracy ... I would guess they are NDA'd too much to say. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta-POI 1.10.0-dev released
I'm looking for a bit of advice. People keep asking me how many people are using Tapestry ... and I honestly have no idea. Insufficient feedback. Do you have a way of determining the user base of POI? Any guidelines based on downloads? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta-POI 1.10.0-dev released
Woops --- that was supposed to be private. But advice is still welcome. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry -Original Message- From: Howard M. Lewis Ship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:42 PM To: 'Jakarta General List' Subject: RE: Jakarta-POI 1.10.0-dev released I'm looking for a bit of advice. People keep asking me how many people are using Tapestry ... and I honestly have no idea. Insufficient feedback. Do you have a way of determining the user base of POI? Any guidelines based on downloads? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta: too many similar projects?
I don't know any of this stuff about Apache refusing a JSR. As I'm seeing it from my end, Jakarta looks to centralize good technologies, but only if a good community of developers and users are part of the deal. I suspect that this rejecting a JSR may come down to something like Sun trying to dump half-working code in Jakarta's lap and expecting folks to rise up and make it work. In terms of web apps and MVC ... well, everyone has their own approach and own definition of MVC, or pull-MVC, or whatever. I do some of my work in Struts (at my day job), but obviously, love Tapestry. Anyway, saying something is a web app framework doesn't really say too much, especially under the shadow of the Servlet API. You could just as easily clump Java, Objective-C and C++ as C-like languages and complain that people should chose one and back it. Aint gonna happen -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry -Original Message- From: Paulo Eduardo Azevedo Silveira [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:07 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Jakarta: too many similar projects? Ok, maybe this is the right place and time. I ve seen Howard talking about Tapestry, then I decided to take a better look at it. At the first look, it seems as a small front controller and a template engine. What I cant understand is why does Jakarta keep getting new M or V or C subprojects that almost compete with each other, instead concentrating forces in a single one. In JCP I ve seen Apache refusing a JSR (JSF if I am not wrong) because it would go directly against Struts. But Jakarta is doing this to itself! I can understand having OJB even with Torque, its very different and it will be JDO. What I dont get is Tapestry AND Velocity AND EL AND Struts taglib AND maybe something that I dont know. Sorry if I didnt get what is the real Jakarta proposal. And Howard, I am really not complaining about Tapestry, it is just one example (I reallylike the idea of removing all links and URLs from templates). I really dont want a flame. thanks Paulo On Tue, 4 Mar 2003 18:41:56 -0500, Howard M. Lewis Ship [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu : De: Howard M. Lewis Ship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Data: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 18:41:56 -0500 Para: 'Jakarta General List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Assunto: RE: Jakarta-POI 1.10.0-dev released I'm looking for a bit of advice. People keep asking me how many people are using Tapestry ... and I honestly have no idea. Insufficient feedback. Do you have a way of determining the user base of POI? Any guidelines based on downloads? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Paulo Silveira ICQ 5142673 Grupo de Usuários Java http://www.guj.com.br/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Another unused import statement report is out...
I still don't understand what the hubub about unused imports is about. Tapestry is pretty clean of them, but even if it wasn't, I wouldn't say that code quality suffered. I mean, there's some fractional difference in compile speed I guess, and a tiny difference in code comprehension that is completely eclipsed by decent comments and JavaDoc. There are other tools out there that do a better job of analyzing the code itself for deficiencies. I'd much rather see folks working to create JUnit test suites and publishing their code coverage results. Tapestry uses a framework called Clover, which is free for open source projects and produces a pretty result (using Velocity, btw). http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry/doc/clover/ I'm very proud of the 80% coverage (on 23K NCLOC, 23000 lines of code excluding comments) and expect to push this to 90% before 2.4 GAs. -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry -Original Message- From: Tom Copeland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 2:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Another unused import statement report is out... unused imports are down 40% since last November, crikey! http://cvs.apache.org/~tcopeland/jakarta_bad_imports.htm Past reports can be found here - http://cvs.apache.org/~tcopeland/, and mad props to the xml-xalan project, who went from 1421 unused imports to 2 in the last month. Yours, Tom Copeland InfoEther 703-486-4543 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Logging strategy
For frameworks, you can't tell how the end-user will be configured. That's why we switched Tapestry over to commons-logging, so that the end-user can get the benefits of logging, regardless of whether they are using Log4J, javax.logging or something else. We also ship Log4J, since we try to maintain compatibility all the way back to JDK 1.2. The only problem is that Tapestry originally had a special, built-in web page for creating Log4J loggers (nee categories), and changing Log4J levels (nee priorities). This used addtiional methods in Log4J Logger for setting the level, and elsewhere for creating new loggers. The commons-logging folks are pretty adamant that extrending the framework for these operations isn't appropriate. (I disagree, but it's not a fight I'm prepared to wage, or expect to win). Howard - Original Message - From: Dani Estermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:21 AM Subject: Logging strategy Has jakarta got a strategy/guideline/regulation that recommends a certain logging api to be used by jakarta projects? Are existing and future jakarta projects allowed to choose between log4j, LogKit, commons-logging or even JDK1.4-Logging? We are currently choosing a logging api and implementation to be used in our business projects. While I favor the power of the log4j implementation, I ask myself if it would be wise to use a -- maybe more future-proof -- thin bridge like commons-logging on top. thanks, Daniel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Logging strategy
I'll probably get this functionality by operating directly on the Log4J API, but enabling the page only if Log4J is on the classpath. - Original Message - From: Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Logging strategy The only problem is that Tapestry originally had a special, built-in web page for creating Log4J loggers (nee categories), and changing Log4J levels (nee priorities). This used addtiional methods in Log4J Logger for setting the level, and elsewhere for creating new loggers. The commons-logging folks are pretty adamant that extrending the framework for these operations isn't appropriate. (I disagree, but it's not a fight I'm prepared to wage, or expect to win). I agree with you - partially. We should have a config mechansim - but it shouldn't be part of the core logging interfaces. I would vote +1 on an optional interface that allows some basic configuration ( like setting the level for a category ), but I don't think it would get a majority. My prefference is JMX for configuration - log4j already has some support for that, and it would be possible to create mbeans to manage jdk1.4 logging as well ( or other logging impl. ). It is on my todo list ( next to using JDNI java:env/ to select the logger implementation ) - but I don't have the time right now. Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A Jakarta wiki?
I haven't used JSPWiki, but I have used the Python-based MoinMoin and really, really like it. I just took a quick look at JSPWiki and I wouldn't be surprised if it's feature set is based on MoinMoin (or vice-versa, it's always hard to tell). It helps with discussions, and provides a temporary home for documentation and such. Part of the Tapestry/Jakarta proposal is a request for a Wiki. Tapestry has gotten great mileage out of its Wiki, even those its the completely lame PHPWiki (which can be hosted directly on SourceForge, the only reason to use it). - Original Message - From: Scott Eade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:39 AM Subject: A Jakarta wiki? About a month ago a discussion occurred over on turbine-user/dev about the possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc documentation as well as a place to develop more formal documentation that might perhaps later be converted to xdoc for direct inclusion in the actual project site. We discussed setting something up on a non-apache server, but thought we would first seek an opinion as to whether or not an apache hosted solution might be a possibility. To this end, I posted a query to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (quoted below). The brief discussion that ensued between Brian Behlendorf, Pier Fumagalli and myself concluded that I was to liaise with Pier to set up a JSPWiki instance on nagoya. I provided Pier with some information and asked him what the next steps might be, but unfortunately Pier has become overloaded with work and has been unable to get back to me (I'm not complaining Pier - all things take time and time is a limited resource). Anyway, I have two motivations for mailing the general list: 1. To raise the profile of this request in hope of sparking some action. 2. To gain some feedback as to the desirability of widening the scope of the wiki beyond turbine. As mentioned below, Cocoon already have an external (non-apache hosted) wiki. Leo Simons has also indicated that a similar discussion has recently taken place over on the Avalon lists with the conclusion being that they too would like to set up a wiki. So how about some feedback: 1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em? 2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice? 3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta or Apache? 4. Hosting - apache.org or external 5. Timing - now, soon, later or never Cheers, Scott -- Scott Eade Backstage Technologies Pty. Ltd. http://www.backstagetech.com.au .Mac Chat/AIM: seade at mac dot com On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Scott Eade wrote: On turbine-user turbine-dev (jakarta) we have been discussing the possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc documentation as well as a place to develop more formal documentation (perhaps we will convert it to xdoc and make it part of the real docs once we are happy with it). To this end, we are wondering if it would be possible to establish a wiki somewhere on an apache server. At this stage our desire is for a wiki that provides information about turbine and its related projects (torque, fulcrum, etc.), but perhaps the entire jakarta or even apache community could benefit from the free flow of information that is facilitated by a wiki. We are open minded about the wiki implementation to be used. There is a maven plugin that provides quite a nice customisation of the UseMod wiki. I myself have used twiki and am fairly happy with it. Cocoon uses an externally hosted JSPWiki which looks pretty good (being a Java person I would probably have used this in preference to twiki had I found it earlier). Anyway, what are the chances of getting something set up on an apache server? What would I need to do to get something happening? Thanks, Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: velocity lovers...
What's troublesome is that the EA they leaked makes these bold claims as the end-all of Java web application development ... yet the demos they provided were creaky, poorly executing and poorly written (also, pretty darn ugly!) Some of the things they want to do are very ambitious, but the APIs are very, very thin. My own experience with Tapestry is that you have to build complex prototypes to find latent problems. I've had this happen repeatedly, where there was a tiny error in my abstractions that needed amending when someone pushed it to the limit (in case your interested, when I build the portal demo, there was a problem when one page would include some content from a different page ... the URLs for links taken from the second page but rendered as part of the first page weren't quite right -- in other words, a very complex scenario). Of course, open source projects are very nimble, I'm usually able to fix things in a backwards-compatible way and be done with it. JSF makes claims that it can handle very complex cases, but I won't believe it until I see it. What I fear will happen is that JSF 1.0 will be released and all the tool builders will standardize on it, then latent problems will be discovered (sure they'll be fixed in JSF 1.1, but then you have to wait for the vendors to update their tools ...) and everyone will be back to scriptlets and custom JSP taglibs to work around the problems ... and developers will have lost, not gained, productivity in the meantime. - Original Message - From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:04 AM Subject: Re: velocity lovers... Wow. Java Server Faces really sucks ass. Much more than I could have ever imagined. No wonder I didn't bother looking at it before. What a confusing, over engineered, under thought out way to do things! I'm really surprised that Sun thinks that anyone is going to use this crap and actually like it. [...] I'm completely amazed and disappointed that Sun is spending so much time, energy and money towards creating so much crap. I usually call 'em Java Server Feces... But that's just me... :-) Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Well, looking at the docs for SPFC I can see the following differences right off the bat: It looks a bit more like Swinglets and the others, in that it uses or mimics the Swing APIs. You assemble your pages in code, i.e., create a Form object, add a TextField object and a Button object, and create event handling inner classes and add them as listeners. Behind the scenes, something somewhat similar is happening in Tapestry, but Tapestry does as much as it can declaratively, in XML, rather than in Java code. Anyway, if you're asking why SPFC failed and why Tapestry hasn't, it simply looks like SPFC never made it out of the alpha stage. Almost no documentaiton, almost no Javadoc, no examples. No proof that it's a viable system to anyone outside the project. It's clear the initial developers got sidetracked and lost interest. Tapestry gained a lot because, in parallel with creating it and dumping it into SourceForge, we used it on a medium-sized (175 pages) project at Primix, during which the worst rough edges were smoothed out. Sure, that early pre-1.0 code is pretty darn primitive by todays standards, but by the time folks outside of Primix started seeing Tapestry, they saw something that was already usuable, and getting better every week. - Original Message - From: John McNally [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta I have taken a closer look at Tapestry and it does provide a quite a different strategy for web application development than Turbine and probably also Struts. It's very well documented and the code looks well written also. I would be willing to drop my -1; I would like to hear a comparison with the failed spfc project though. http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/java-spfc/docs/index.html?rev=1.10conten t-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup It seems like a similar idea, or am I wrong? I liked the idea of spfc. Though the change in perspective needed to think of a webapp in terms of event driven components was considered too great a stretch, I guess. Is such an approach gaining more acceptance, or have I missed the point of Tapestry? john mcnally On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 16:22, Pier Fumagalli wrote: On 19/10/02 19:49, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So could someone clarify that for me... We're here to promote community software developmentas long as they don't overlap? sorry I totally misunderstood the apache way. (especially with all the overlapping projects to the contrary) I want to start a new project for a new Servlet Container that is not Tomcat! :-) Let's see how many fans I'm going to get! :-) Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
I don't have a way to qualify this, but I'm very concerned about growing the community, and therefore I'm very careful not to be arbitrary. Everything is a discussion, and I prefer that person X be happy with the ultimate decision, preferably agreeing with it. I've tried to before to spur more organization, but that didn't really get started. The problem is, developers are too happy, I think. The framework does mostly what they need, bugs fixes and improvements happen, so there hasn't been a need to get involved. A move to Jakarta will *force* a few people (and I know who they are) to step forward, since other wise, by the rules, nothing will actually happen. - Original Message - From: Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 02:06, Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote: Benevolent dictatorship. Probably should have expanded on this. Without a formal comittee or voting system, I've reserved the right to ultimately decide what goes into the framework and what doesn't. Start changing now. I don't know how long it will be before you come to Apache but there is no harm and considerable benefit in moving to this model IMHO. It would also enhance your chances of making it into Apache. -- Cheers, Peter Donald -- Logic: The art of being wrong with confidence... -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Evaluation Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Marc Fluery is (or, at least, comes across as) a jerk with some good ideas. Unlike most folks who have used Tapestry, he didn't ask for clarifications or make suggestions or enter into a dialog ... he made demands. When I asked that he actually participate, he dropped off the list. He's definately more of a hacker, really doesn't like the basic discipline of declaring things before using them, type safety, etc. I don't always javadoc accessor methods without side effects. I don't javadoc methods in implementations that are fully described in the interface's javadoc. If you look at the online Javadoc, not the code comments, it's pretty darn complete. I have a weak memory, so I always comment as I go (or even comment first). I wouldn't call the site ugly, and the docs *are* online, as HTML, PDF, JavaDoc ... even the code coverage report (which includes source code). There's a Documentation tab on the main frame. I haven't worked for Primix in over a year. Primix doesn't exist, they got bought out by a bigger fish, BurntSand. I believe they mostly do Windows stuff, with some ATG thrown in. - Original Message - From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 10:53 AM Subject: Evaluation Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta So Tapestry seems to have attracted a healthy following and the attention of such notables as Marc Fleury (Whom I think is a technically proficient and thoroughly decent okay guy...and he likes altoids more than I do): http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=1165034forum_id=7644 There is even potential synergy with another Jakarta project ;-): http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=1142661forum_id=7644 Oh and they already use stuff from jakarta-commons (as opposed to apache-commons which is confusing ;-) ) The project is pretty active: http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?report=monthsgroup_id=4754 There is the inevitable book deal that seems to be all the rage these days: http://tapestry.sourceforge.net/wiki_frame.html Hey I think I know that Christian Hall guy from somewhere ;-): http://tapestry.sourceforge.net/wiki_frame.html I like the code okay, it has Javadoc... There are some methods that probably should be javadoc'd but aren't http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/tapestry/Tapestry/framework/s rc/net/sf/tapestry/AbstractPage.java?rev=1.8content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-m arkup Their website is ugly and doesn't have their docs directly online: tapestry.sourceforge.net Notes: 1. I didn't actually try and run it, i just looked at all the available online information.. (Sorry, don't have time to run it, I'm assuming user testimony is enough) Concerns: Tapestry started out as Primix foundation.. Is Howard still employed by Primix... would he still be working on it if he was no longer? Tapestry appears to have decent documentation... Do we allow that around here? ;-) My biggest concern is they want to start following the Apache way after moving here. In my opinion they have enough contributors, etc. I'd like to see them start voting and the such first, then reevaluate once they've been doing it a few months. They might also want to investigate a home at JBoss if Apache doesn't work out. I know those guys are expanding. All in all, as much as I don't really care for PULL methods... This seems to be a healthy community, it seems to be reasonably well in line with Jakarta, and I think it would be a good fit. So for whats its worth +0 from me, and +1 if they start following the voting rules/etc in advance then move here. If they do that I will volunteer to help them out with bringing them into the fold and all, although I'm not a member. -Andy On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 09:35, Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote: I don't have a way to qualify this, but I'm very concerned about growing the community, and therefore I'm very careful not to be arbitrary. Everything is a discussion, and I prefer that person X be happy with the ultimate decision, preferably agreeing with it. I've tried to before to spur more organization, but that didn't really get started. The problem is, developers are too happy, I think. The framework does mostly what they need, bugs fixes and improvements happen, so there hasn't been a need to get involved. A move to Jakarta will *force* a few people (and I know who they are) to step forward, since other wise, by the rules, nothing will actually happen. - Original Message - From: Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 02:06, Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote: Benevolent dictatorship. Probably should have expanded on this. Without a formal comittee or voting system, I've reserved
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
I think you'll find good news when you read the mailing list. A year ago, I wouldn't have tried to move Tapestry to Jakarta, because the community wasn't strong enough, but now it seems like participation is there, with more people contributing ideas and code. It's also gratifying when users ask questions on the list and two or three other Tapestry developers answer the question before I even see it. Benevolent dictatorship. Probably should have expanded on this. Without a formal comittee or voting system, I've reserved the right to ultimately decide what goes into the framework and what doesn't. Part of this is scheduling, deferring suggestings and minor fixes into later releases. Also, the pace of releases has been determined by me (i.e., when to freeze code, when to make a final release). I'd rather have a voting system for that and buy in from others because its a lot of responsibility to determine when the code is stable enough (for instance, there is a rather obvious bug in the 2.2 release that should have been flushed out during the beta). Much of the evolution of Tapestry starts with a core idea (often, but not always, from me), is discussed on the list and in the Wiki, and eventually turned into code (and tests, and documentation). - Original Message - From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta Just my 2c.. If they have a strong community and meet the requirements... Cool. I think I'll go read their mail archives at let you know how much of it I think is being developed by one guy. (I mean if all of those people submitted a trivial patch suddenly the day before this proposal was put in and that kind of thing...) It states that its currently run as a benevolent dictatorship but will change when it moves over.. I think that is the incorrect order of operations... Just my opinion.. I'm sorry for the inevitable people whom it has offended. -Andy On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 09:33, Sam Ruby wrote: John McNally wrote: -1. Jakarta already has two webapp frameworks and I do not see any reason to add another. It is a non-goal of Jakarta to have only one webapp framework, or to limit itself to two. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com - software solutions for business http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document in Java http://krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede - the best build/project structure a guy/gal could have! - Make Ant simple on complex Projects! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
