Re: [VOTE] Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Jim Jagielski]

Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> 
> :-p  We already voted him in...I nominated him a long while back...Just no
> one like...bothered to count the votes and do whatever was needed to instate
> him (like tell him how to subscribe)
> 

That's very different :)

-- 
===
   Jim Jagielski   [|]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [|]   http://www.jaguNET.com/
  "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order
 will lose both and deserve neither" - T.Jefferson

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Re: [VOTE] Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Andrew C. Oliver]

On 7/3/03 6:23 PM, "Jim Jagielski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Does it make sense that someone is nominating himself
> (or re-nominating himself) for membership?
> 

:-p  We already voted him in...I nominated him a long while back...Just no
one like...bothered to count the votes and do whatever was needed to instate
him (like tell him how to subscribe)

Now if he crowns himselfwe'll have to send troops and banish him to a
small islandor come at him with knifes...depends on what kind of emperor
he is

-- 
Andrew C. Oliver
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp
Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI

http://jakarta.apache.org/poi
For Java and Excel, Got POI?


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Re: [VOTE] Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Andrew C. Oliver]

Oooh ooh does that mean we all get to stab him?  Sorry I'm from a violent
culture...its our way... GET USED TO IT!  ;-)

http://linuxintegrators.com/hl30/blog/general/?permalink=And+that%27s+a+404+
on+the+Weapons+of+Mass+Destruction.html

;-)


-andy

On 7/3/03 6:03 PM, "Henri Yandell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> +1
> 
> Howard for King
> 
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> 
>> +1
>> 
>> On 7/3/03 4:59 PM, "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Did anything every happen on this?  I remember ACO sending out a message,
>>> but
>>> I don't know if it
>>> every made it to a vote.  I'd really like to pursue this, because of my
>>> instatiable craving for
>>> power.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>> Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components
>>> http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Andrew C. Oliver
>> http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp
>> Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI
>> 
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/poi
>> For Java and Excel, Got POI?
>> 
> 
> 
> -
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> 

-- 
Andrew C. Oliver
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp
Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI

http://jakarta.apache.org/poi
For Java and Excel, Got POI?


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Re: [VOTE] Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Jim Jagielski]

Does it make sense that someone is nominating himself
(or re-nominating himself) for membership?


-- 
===
   Jim Jagielski   [|]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [|]   http://www.jaguNET.com/
  "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order
 will lose both and deserve neither" - T.Jefferson

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Re: [VOTE] Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Steven Noels]

On 4/07/2003 0:08 Henri Yandell wrote:

He's a multi-millionaire who we're being nice to in the hope that he'll
start paying us all full time wages to work from home for Apache.
Yuck. I want power as well, not money. Bo for Howard! The King is dead!


--
Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Henri Yandell]

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Steven Noels wrote:

> On 4/07/2003 0:03 Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > Howard for King
>
> +1
>
> Power to Howard. (Who is that guy, BTW?)

He's a multi-millionaire who we're being nice to in the hope that he'll
start paying us all full time wages to work from home for Apache.

Hen


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Re: [VOTE] Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Steven Noels]

On 4/07/2003 0:03 Henri Yandell wrote:

+1

Howard for King
+1

Power to Howard. (Who is that guy, BTW?)


--
Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Henri Yandell]

+1

Howard for King

On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:

> +1
>
> On 7/3/03 4:59 PM, "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Did anything every happen on this?  I remember ACO sending out a message, but
> > I don't know if it
> > every made it to a vote.  I'd really like to pursue this, because of my
> > instatiable craving for
> > power.
> >
> > --
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
> --
> Andrew C. Oliver
> http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp
> Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/poi
> For Java and Excel, Got POI?
>


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[VOTE] Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Andrew C. Oliver]

+1

On 7/3/03 4:59 PM, "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Did anything every happen on this?  I remember ACO sending out a message, but
> I don't know if it
> every made it to a vote.  I'd really like to pursue this, because of my
> instatiable craving for
> power.
> 
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components
> http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 

-- 
Andrew C. Oliver
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp
Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI

http://jakarta.apache.org/poi
For Java and Excel, Got POI?


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Howard Lewis Ship PMC Nomination

[Howard M. Lewis Ship]

Did anything every happen on this?  I remember ACO sending out a message, but I don't 
know if it
every made it to a vote.  I'd really like to pursue this, because of my instatiable 
craving for
power.

--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components
http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry



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RE: PMC Nomination

[Danny Angus]

> And if that works for Italy, I
> believe it works everywhere else...

Erm, are you really suggesting that Italian politics should be the model we emulate? 

d.


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Santiago Gala]

Pier Fumagalli wrote:

On 19/2/03 23:10 "Leo Simons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



I don't think anyone expects that upon becoming a PMC member one would
immediately need to gain and maintain intimate knowledge of all corners
of the jakarta codebases. It is just about humanly impossible. So it is
probably a good move to ensure the PMC is of a size where there are one
or more people who do have that intimate knowledge for each particular
corner.



If I talk to someone on the HTTPd PMC, he _knows_all_. I don't see why it
should be different for Jakarta. And if the problem is size, well, break up
the bloody thing, it was never designed to be this huge.



If I understand correctly the political trends here, promoting people to 
the Jakarta PMC is trying to get people involved, and knowing each other 
and the whole of Jakarta, so that the process of promotion of more and 
more projects to top-level does not balkanize the communities any more. 
Also, to promote wider awareness of the big community as a whole. It 
does not look like bad for me.

So, the move is in the right direction, something like making jakarta 
community grow to later split (re-organize?) it with less trauma (sp?)


My 2 pennies.


When will you, half europeans ;-) enter the euro stuff so that you can 
pay me a beer in Madrid with less transaction cost? ;-)

Two euro cents in exchange.

Santiago



Pier


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RE: PMC Nomination

[Danny Angus]

I like to totally endorse Leo's points about the Avalon PMC, My experience with James 
PMC is very, very similar.

James PMC is by and large the whole set of commiters who were active in discussions 
about the project, rather than just the code. From that POV nothing much has changed, 
we're a bit more aware of our responsibilities, but it doesn't involve a load more 
participation.

I can see that limiting the size of Jakarta PMC would compel PMC members to take a 
more active interest in parts of the project that wouldn't normally cross their paths. 
Conversely extending the PMC to include *trusted* additional members spreads the load, 
and a wide range of interests in the PMC ensure that every aspect is covered. Then 
again widening the PMC by indiscriminately including everyone may backfire if they 
can't rely on each other, so that instead of seven people sharing the load you get 22 
people all keeping their own eye on everything.

I've been nominated for the Jakarta PMC this round, and I intend to serve if elected, 
and although I'm not a commiter on any jakarta-projects any more I believe that my 
small contribution (irrespective of its quality..) will help to ensure that jakarta is 
a focused community project, and that it has ties with other projects and the wider 
Apache community.

d.



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Re: PMC Nomination

[Costin Manolache]

Pier Fumagalli wrote:

> ...
> Now, under Jakarta, there might be projects on which one might like to be
> involved and spend time on (therefore bearing the responsibilities of
> being a PMC member over _that_ particular code base),  but there might be
> project that one don't want to be even remotely associated with...
> 
> So, unless this:
> 
>> The PMC is responsible for the strategic direction and success of the
>> Jakarta Project. This governing body is expected to ensure the project's
>> welfare and guide its overall direction.
> 
> Found here 
> 
> Changes to identify that individual PMC members might have oversight only
> on a fraction (subproject) of the whole project, I would be against it.

I don't know any plan to change the charter - the PMC is and will be
responsible for the entire Jakarta Project. 
I'm also against any other fraction or fragmentation ( it seems we agree
sometimes :-).


The fact is that jakarta needs to become and act as "jakarta community" -
and everyone who preffers a different community can do that easily. Having
all people who are actively involved in jakarta subprojects participate
in the management and oversight of jakarta is the right thing to do.

We do have many different codebases and projects - but in the end they
all fit togheter pretty well, and so do the people :-)

Costin




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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 20/2/03 2:34 "Conor MacNeill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> A bit like 
> saying the government is responsible for running the country. That doesn't
> mean every minister will have expertise in every portfolio

Ministers might not know the details, but know the overall direction and
actions of all the other portfolios... And if that works for Italy, I
believe it works everywhere else...

Pier (mum works down with the politics in Italy, somehow)


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Conor MacNeill]

Pier Fumagalli wrote:

On 19/2/03 21:31 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


This is not a convincing enough argument to make me change my point of view.

Pier


Fair enough.

I think it is fair to interpret the paragraph you quoted

> The PMC is responsible for the strategic direction and success of the
> Jakarta Project. This governing body is expected to ensure the
> project's welfare and guide its overall direction.

as the PMC *collectively* not the PMC members *individually*. A bit like 
saying the government is responsible for running the country. That doesn't 
mean every minister will have expertise in every portfolio (using the 
political lingo of the country in which I reside). I know in reality that 
many ministers have no expertise at all but this is just an analogy :-)

Conor






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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/2/03 23:00 "Leo Simons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Guess what? No need for that at all! The "additional" responsibility
> being on a PMC entails wasn't additional at all.

Avalon is ONE project... Jakarta, I can't count them with my hands AND feet.

Pier


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/2/03 23:10 "Leo Simons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't think anyone expects that upon becoming a PMC member one would
> immediately need to gain and maintain intimate knowledge of all corners
> of the jakarta codebases. It is just about humanly impossible. So it is
> probably a good move to ensure the PMC is of a size where there are one
> or more people who do have that intimate knowledge for each particular
> corner.

If I talk to someone on the HTTPd PMC, he _knows_all_. I don't see why it
should be different for Jakarta. And if the problem is size, well, break up
the bloody thing, it was never designed to be this huge.

My 2 pennies.

Pier


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/2/03 21:31 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>> On 19/2/03 17:18 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.
>> 
>> I think this is utterly wrong for an umbrella project like Jakarta.
> 
> Interesting.  100% of the ASF board members that I have talked to have
> given me exactly the opposite advice.
> 
> I am executing on their recommendations.

This is not a convincing enough argument to make me change my point of view.

Pier


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Sam Ruby]

Ceki Gülcü wrote:


By the way, when are the next membership nominations?


Martin Poeschl wrote:
>
> how does someone become an ASF member?
> i know, by nomination from another member .. but when does that ever
> happen??

This is scheduled to coincide with members meetings which, in turn, are 
scheduled to coincide with ApacheCons.  That's why it is very important 
for members who can't make it to ApacheCons to fill out proxy statements.

I believe I was the one who nominated the most new members at the last 
meeting.  Hopefully, more people will do the same at the next one.

- Sam Ruby





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Re: PMC Nomination

[Leo Simons]

Pier Fumagalli wrote:

So, unless this:


The PMC is responsible for the strategic direction and success of the Jakarta
Project. This governing body is expected to ensure the project's welfare and
guide its overall direction.


Changes to identify that individual PMC members might have oversight only on
a fraction (subproject) of the whole project, I would be against it.


I don't think anyone expects that upon becoming a PMC member one would 
immediately need to gain and maintain intimate knowledge of all corners 
of the jakarta codebases. It is just about humanly impossible. So it is 
probably a good move to ensure the PMC is of a size where there are one 
or more people who do have that intimate knowledge for each particular 
corner.

IOW, I do agree with your observation, but I wouldn't worry too much 
about formal documentation maybe not reflecting reality. Reality is what 
matters anyway, and what should be looked at :D

cheers & g'night!

- Leo



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Re: PMC Nomination

[Leo Simons]

Hi peeps,

I am on the avalon PMC. I was a bit scared of the idea of being a PMC 
member at first, thinking about all the additional responsibility and 
all the additional things I would need to do.

Guess what? No need for that at all! The "additional" responsibility 
being on a PMC entails wasn't additional at all. I already participated 
in voting on releases, already tried to help steer overal direction, 
already took responsiblity for the things avalon did as a group, etc etc.

The main extra task I found was getting avalon.apache.org off the ground 
and setting up the extra infrastructure, which was something I did as a 
committer; there certainly isn't much "management" involved there! And 
with new top-level projects sprouting up, the process is pretty much 
streamlining.

OTOH, the setting up of avalon as a TLP has forced us to re-think what 
avalon is about, and we're now becoming more focussed again. Most 
jakarta subprojects don't really need the extra focus, but this change 
sort of nudged _us_ in the right direction. I also think we made life 
easier for the jakarta PMC, and our project more transparant for the 
board. Finally, the somewhat mythical idea I and others had about what 
constitutes a PMC is basically gone. [EMAIL PROTECTED] has just 
about no traffic :D

I have also not found my fear that avalon would seperate too much from 
the rest of jakarta mostly unfounded. Dynamics with james and cocoon 
(not jakarta :D) are good/better than ever, lots of people and projects 
are still helping us out (like forrest, maven, ant peeps providing 
infrastructure tools and support) avalon is participating in GUMP again, 
and I find myself going out of my way more than before to ensure less 
duplication between projects, particulary wrt commons. I guess the 
broader perspective gained from thinking about the apache/jakarta 
organisation made me care more for all of its projects in the end.



So in my experience so far, being a PMC member did take some extra time 
(basically because I needed to figure out what it ment), but less and 
less as routine settles in. And it has been a really positive and 
rewarding experience; I've learned a lot about apache in the process, 
and avalon as a project is on the right track again.



The situation is probably a little different with jakarta and its PMC as 
a whole, as it consists of lots of projects and it was pretty hard to be 
on the jakarta pmc in the past (though they've been doing commendably 
well considering), because of the huge size of jakarta being distributed 
on so few shoulders. The inclusion of more committers should make life 
easier for everyone.

I'm not an active committer to any jakarta projects atm, but I would not 
hesistate to sign up for the PMC if I were. Not saying anyone should, 
just that there is no (or not much, at least) need to be scared of 
responsibilities, overhead, or time consumption.

.02 euros only,

cheers,

- Leo



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Re: PMC Nomination

[Andrew C. Oliver]

Talk less.  Nominate more.

-Andy



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Re: PMC Nomination

[Andrew C. Oliver]

One good first step in this direction would be to at least Cc: the pmc
list on all [Vote result] messages, so all pmc should be aware of
the decisions made. 

 

It is important to emphasize *result*.  Not to be discouraging but you 
could quickly overwhelm the PMC with threads of discussion from every 
jakarta project (especially commons).

-Andy



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Re: PMC Nomination

[Sam Ruby]

Pier Fumagalli wrote:

On 19/2/03 17:18 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.


I think this is utterly wrong for an umbrella project like Jakarta. 

Interesting.  100% of the ASF board members that I have talked to have 
given me exactly the opposite advice.

I am executing on their recommendations.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Ceki Gülcü]

At 15:41 19.02.2003 -0500, you wrote:

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

Shouldn't it be that a committer has been around for a reasonable amount 
of time?  How else would they be a committer?

From the perspective of other ASF projects (e.g., HTTPD), Jakarta gives 
out committer-ship like candy.  With HTTPD, a track record of 
approximately six months of sustained patches is required to become a 
committer.

By contrast HTTPD, by Jakarta standards, gives out PMC membership and ASF 
membership like candy.

I want to strike a happy balance.  I don't necessarily want to slow down 
the rate at which people become committers.  But I would like to see 
significantly more Jakarta committers become PMC and ASF members.

+1

By the way, when are the next membership nominations?


- Sam Ruby


--
Ceki 


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Geir Magnusson Jr .]

On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 03:41 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:


Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

Shouldn't it be that a committer has been around for a reasonable 
amount of time?  How else would they be a committer?

From the perspective of other ASF projects (e.g., HTTPD), Jakarta 
gives out committer-ship like candy.  With HTTPD, a track record of 
approximately six months of sustained patches is required to become a 
committer.

By contrast HTTPD, by Jakarta standards, gives out PMC membership and 
ASF membership like candy.

I want to strike a happy balance.  I don't necessarily want to slow 
down the rate at which people become committers.  But I would like to 
see significantly more Jakarta committers become PMC and ASF members.

As long as there's candy :0



- Sam Ruby





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--
Geir Magnusson Jr   203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc.   203-247-1713(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/2/03 17:18 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeffrey Dever wrote:
>> 
>> I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members voting on releases to
>> the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the release prime for Commons
>> HttpClient where all committers vote on all issues all the time,
>> including releases.  HttpClient is somewhat unusual in commons as it is
>> rather a large project with a dedicated mailing list and a rich family
>> where many, such as myself, are primarily focused on just one project,
>> HttpClient.
> 
> The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.

I think this is utterly wrong for an umbrella project like Jakarta. Being
PMC member in my little book of horrors come with quite a little bit of
responsibilities over _ALL_ projects managed by that PMC.

Now, under Jakarta, there might be projects on which one might like to be
involved and spend time on (therefore bearing the responsibilities of being
a PMC member over _that_ particular code base),  but there might be project
that one don't want to be even remotely associated with...

So, unless this:

> The PMC is responsible for the strategic direction and success of the Jakarta
> Project. This governing body is expected to ensure the project's welfare and
> guide its overall direction.

Found here 

Changes to identify that individual PMC members might have oversight only on
a fraction (subproject) of the whole project, I would be against it.

It's just a matter of roles and _responsibilities_...

Pier


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Sam Ruby]

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:


Shouldn't it be that a committer has been around for a reasonable amount 
of time?  How else would they be a committer?

From the perspective of other ASF projects (e.g., HTTPD), Jakarta gives 
out committer-ship like candy.  With HTTPD, a track record of 
approximately six months of sustained patches is required to become a 
committer.

By contrast HTTPD, by Jakarta standards, gives out PMC membership and 
ASF membership like candy.

I want to strike a happy balance.  I don't necessarily want to slow down 
the rate at which people become committers.  But I would like to see 
significantly more Jakarta committers become PMC and ASF members.

- Sam Ruby





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Re: PMC Nomination

[Geir Magnusson Jr .]

On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 02:19 PM, Costin Manolache wrote:


Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:



On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 12:18 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:


Jeffrey Dever wrote:

I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members voting on releases
to the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the release prime for
Commons HttpClient where all committers vote on all issues all the
time, including releases.  HttpClient is somewhat unusual in commons
as it is rather a large project with a dedicated mailing list and a
rich family where many, such as myself, are primarily focused on 
just
one project, HttpClient.

The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.


Would it be quicker just to make all active committers PMC members by
default?


I think the goal should be that the PMC should include all committers 
that
are active and have been around for a while ( 3..6 months seems 
reasonable).

Agreed



I like the current system of proposing release managers - as it 
encourages
people to do this work. Proposing people who are taking a very active 
role
in various projects would also be good.

I don't think all active committers should be PMC members by default - 
maybe
after few months if they stick around and continue to be active.

Shouldn't it be that a committer has been around for a reasonable 
amount of time?  How else would they be a committer?

--
Geir Magnusson Jr   203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc.   203-247-1713(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Sam Ruby]

robert burrell donkin wrote:


actively inviting new PMC members to join is something that i think 
should be done.

in the same way that a developer receives a letter from apache (after a 
successful vote) inviting them to become a committer, i'd say that 
committers who have been voted onto the PMC should receive a letter 
explaining the role of a PMC member and asking them if they'd be willing 
to join.

What are you waiting for?

Make it so.

;-)

- Sam Ruby



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Re: PMC Nomination

[Jeffrey Dever]

Completely agree.  We should see what the new PMC roles/responsibilites 
are before accepting PMC membership.

robert burrell donkin wrote:

On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 11:42 PM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:


Yesterday I received the Jakarta Monthly Newsletter. Interesting as 
always,
until I got to the section on PMC nominations. There, I suddenly 
found my
name listed as elected to the Jakarta PMC. This came as a complete 
surprise
and shock to me.

When I followed the relevant link, I discovered that a discussion had 
taken
place on this list, but I was not subscribed to general@jakarta 
(unless I'
m
mistaken, I'm not required to subscribe). At no point was a personal 
email
sent to myself (or I guess the others nominated). I feel as though I 
have
been pressganged.


actively inviting new PMC members to join is something that i think 
should be done.

in the same way that a developer receives a letter from apache (after 
a successful vote) inviting them to become a committer, i'd say that 
committers who have been voted onto the PMC should receive a letter 
explaining the role of a PMC member and asking them if they'd be 
willing to join.

- robert


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Jeffrey Dever]

It is not "to the exclusion" of active committers.

Http-client is part of jakarta-commons - and acording to the charter any
jakarta-commons committer ( which is close to all jakarta ) can vote.

As you probably know - only those who are really interested do that.

I agree that we're not yet ready to have PMC votes on releases - we need
to expand the PMC and include more people. Even when this will happen,
I think the committer votes should be counted as well.  
 

That is reassuring Costin.  To clarify HttpClient and voting, we 
absolutely *do* recognize all votes from all commons committers.  Votes 
are held on the the same list where the httpclient discussions take 
place, the commons-httpclient-dev list.


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Re: PMC Nomination

[robert burrell donkin]

On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 11:42 PM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:


Yesterday I received the Jakarta Monthly Newsletter. Interesting as 
always,
until I got to the section on PMC nominations. There, I suddenly found my
name listed as elected to the Jakarta PMC. This came as a complete 
surprise
and shock to me.

When I followed the relevant link, I discovered that a discussion had 
taken
place on this list, but I was not subscribed to general@jakarta (unless I'
m
mistaken, I'm not required to subscribe). At no point was a personal email
sent to myself (or I guess the others nominated). I feel as though I have
been pressganged.

actively inviting new PMC members to join is something that i think should 
be done.

in the same way that a developer receives a letter from apache (after a 
successful vote) inviting them to become a committer, i'd say that 
committers who have been voted onto the PMC should receive a letter 
explaining the role of a PMC member and asking them if they'd be willing 
to join.

- robert


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Costin Manolache]

Jeffrey Dever wrote:

> I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members voting on releases to
> the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the release prime for Commons

It is not "to the exclusion" of active committers.

Http-client is part of jakarta-commons - and acording to the charter any
jakarta-commons committer ( which is close to all jakarta ) can vote.

As you probably know - only those who are really interested do that.

I agree that we're not yet ready to have PMC votes on releases - we need
to expand the PMC and include more people. Even when this will happen,
I think the committer votes should be counted as well.  

At least for jakarta-commons - the difference will be insignifiant.



> The new group of committers has really risen up out of the ashes of the
> old HttpClient which became quite idle over the first half of last year.
>  These new committers are what makes HttpClient move forward, and I
> cringe at the thought of taking some, any,  responsibility away from
> them, away from us.

Think of this in terms of a larger "us". By beeing part of jakarta-commons,
http client is already a part of a very large "us", almost as wide as
jakarta.

In all cases - the responsibilty stays with the people who chose to be
involved. That can include jakarta PMC ( most of the pmc is already 
committer on jakarta-commons anyway - so that means absolutely no change).

As active http client committers join the PMC - they'll be able to 
assume more responsibility.

Costin


> 
> I am quite happy with how things are going right now.  Our contributor
> base continues to grow and we are back to doing releases (hurray).  We
> are using maven to build, have factored out some services into the Codec
> subproject and are looking to factor out URI into a new subproject.  We
> have over 250 Junit tests, are using commons-logging and have reached
> critical mass to support our own votes according to Jakarta guidelines.
>  Some complain at our isolation, but I see this as desirable given the
> size of the codebase and the volume of email traffic (approx 400/month).
>  Of course we have an open door policy and have good connections to
> those projects that are connected to HttpClient, such as Slide, Cactus
> and othes both inside and ourside of Apache.
> 
> There have been transitional pains, and growing pains, but all in all, I
> would say that HttpClient is a very healthy project.
> 
> To quote the quote of Sam, "Jakarta ... becoming a single community".  I
> like the sound of this, but please consider that communities are
> composed of families that a) are all members of the community, b)
> interact more frequently with their own family members than others in
> the community, c) may or may not share culture and d) a single family
> has differing relationships between families.
> 
> HttpClient has all the characteristics of a family in a community.  I
> don't want to see this relationship disrupted by taking voting power
> away from the family representitives, the committers.
> 
> I have not shown interest in the PMC up untill now, but it sounds like
> my family is at risk, and I'm concerned.  In general, I just want to
> write code and progress HttpClient (of which I don't really have time
> for even this, but I like it so much I make time).  I don't appear to
> have been nominated (or have just shown up on the list like Stephen) but
> I am eligible (committer, release prime and active for 10 months).
> 
> Should I be seeking a seat on the PMC?
> 
> Jeff (Jandalf) Dever.
> HttpClient 2.0 release prime.
> 
> 
> Conor MacNeill wrote:
> 
>> Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>>
>>> Unless I am mistaken, being a PMC member implies an overseing role
>>> for the
>>> whole of jakarta,
>>
>>
>> No, not quite, IMHO. The PMC as a *whole* has an oversight role for
>> the whole of Jakarta but individual PMC members do not need to oversee
>> all of Jakarta. In fact this is the nub of the reorg issues which have
>> been floating around. AIUI, the 7 member PMC approach was felt not to
>> be able to adequately cover all of Jakarta and the PMC must grow to
>> adequately provide oversight. Eventually most consistently active
>> committers will join the PMC. This is the httpd model, for example.
>> Sam is moving from where we have been to that point in a series of steps.
>>
>>> a requirement to follow PMC issues and votes and to be a
>>> manager. Whilst the concept of being able to push forward jakarta, JSRs,
>>> make decisions etc is appealing, I do not believe that I have the time
>>> available to do the job. Hell, I already lack the time to fully
>>> oversee the
>>> commons-lang, commons-collections and commons-clazz projects that I am
>>> involved with as I would like :-)
>>
>>
>> If you are providing oversight of these projects, even to the extent
>> you have time available, you are already filling one of the roles of a
>> PMC member. If you have acted as a release manager, then you have
>> performed a purely PMC role. All releases of Ja

Re: PMC Nomination

[Costin Manolache]

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

> 
> On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 12:18 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> 
>> Jeffrey Dever wrote:
>>> I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members voting on releases
>>> to the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the release prime for
>>> Commons HttpClient where all committers vote on all issues all the
>>> time, including releases.  HttpClient is somewhat unusual in commons
>>> as it is rather a large project with a dedicated mailing list and a
>>> rich family where many, such as myself, are primarily focused on just
>>> one project, HttpClient.
>>
>> The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.
> 
> Would it be quicker just to make all active committers PMC members by
> default?

I think the goal should be that the PMC should include all committers that
are active and have been around for a while ( 3..6 months seems reasonable).

I like the current system of proposing release managers - as it encourages
people to do this work. Proposing people who are taking a very active role
in various projects would also be good. 

I don't think all active committers should be PMC members by default - maybe
after few months if they stick around and continue to be active. 

Costin 



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Re: PMC Nomination

[Jeffrey Dever]

If the implication is that "release management =
project management", I don't agree.  Typically there
can only be one release manager, but it's takes lots
of people to keep a project going.  Certainly every
release manager should forward themselves as PMC
nominees, but the body of qualified candidates is much
larger.


Well said Morgan.  Point taken.


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Henri Yandell]

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 12:18 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>
> > The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.
>
> Would it be quicker just to make all active committers PMC members by
> default?

If the idea is that every release-manager person is now a PMC member,
could it not be time that these people should produce a next list of
people to be PMC'd?

ie) every active committer, from their release-manager pov.

Unless there's some magic metric for 'active' which can be applied. Might
be simpler. Then a 'join mail list' email sent out, and joining the mail
list is considered as acceptance of accepting the PMC?

Hen


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Morgan Delagrange]

--- Jeffrey Dever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members
> voting on releases 
> >> to the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the
> release prime for 
> >> Commons HttpClient where all committers vote on
> all issues all the 
> >> time, including releases.  HttpClient is somewhat
> unusual in commons 
> >> as it is rather a large project with a dedicated
> mailing list and a 
> >> rich family where many, such as myself, are
> primarily focused on just 
> >> one project, HttpClient.
> >
> >
> > The goal is to make all active committers PMC
> members.
> 
> 
> Then what, exactly, is the difference between a
> committer and a PMC 
> member?  
> 
> I thought the goal was to have the release primes be
> the PMC members. 
>  It is the Project Management Committee after all.

If the implication is that "release management =
project management", I don't agree.  Typically there
can only be one release manager, but it's takes lots
of people to keep a project going.  Certainly every
release manager should forward themselves as PMC
nominees, but the body of qualified candidates is much
larger.

- Morgan

=
Morgan Delagrange
http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons
http://axion.tigris.org
http://jakarta.apache.org/watchdog

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
http://shopping.yahoo.com

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Re: PMC Nomination

[Geir Magnusson Jr .]

On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 12:18 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:


Jeffrey Dever wrote:

I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members voting on releases 
to the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the release prime for 
Commons HttpClient where all committers vote on all issues all the 
time, including releases.  HttpClient is somewhat unusual in commons 
as it is rather a large project with a dedicated mailing list and a 
rich family where many, such as myself, are primarily focused on just 
one project, HttpClient.

The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.


Would it be quicker just to make all active committers PMC members by 
default?

--
Geir Magnusson Jr   203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc.   203-247-1713(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Jeffrey Dever]

I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members voting on releases 
to the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the release prime for 
Commons HttpClient where all committers vote on all issues all the 
time, including releases.  HttpClient is somewhat unusual in commons 
as it is rather a large project with a dedicated mailing list and a 
rich family where many, such as myself, are primarily focused on just 
one project, HttpClient.


The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.



Then what, exactly, is the difference between a committer and a PMC 
member?  

I thought the goal was to have the release primes be the PMC members. 
It is the Project Management Committee after all.




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Re: PMC Nomination

[Sam Ruby]

Jeffrey Dever wrote:


I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members voting on releases to 
the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the release prime for Commons 
HttpClient where all committers vote on all issues all the time, 
including releases.  HttpClient is somewhat unusual in commons as it is 
rather a large project with a dedicated mailing list and a rich family 
where many, such as myself, are primarily focused on just one project, 
HttpClient.

The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.


I am quite happy with how things are going right now.  Our contributor 
base continues to grow and we are back to doing releases (hurray).  We 
are using maven to build, have factored out some services into the Codec 
subproject and are looking to factor out URI into a new subproject.  We 
have over 250 Junit tests, are using commons-logging and have reached 
critical mass to support our own votes according to Jakarta guidelines. 
Some complain at our isolation, but I see this as desirable given the 
size of the codebase and the volume of email traffic (approx 400/month). 
Of course we have an open door policy and have good connections to those 
projects that are connected to HttpClient, such as Slide, Cactus and 
othes both inside and ourside of Apache.

This works well when things go well.  When things go wrong, who is 
accountable?

To quote the quote of Sam, "Jakarta ... becoming a single community".  I 
like the sound of this, but please consider that communities are 
composed of families that a) are all members of the community, b) 
interact more frequently with their own family members than others in 
the community, c) may or may not share culture and d) a single family 
has differing relationships between families.

Different families should become different projects.  Ant, Avalon, 
Cocoon, James, WebServices, DB, ... are all examples of this happening.

HttpClient has all the characteristics of a family in a community.  I 
don't want to see this relationship disrupted by taking voting power 
away from the family representitives, the committers.

Semantics.  The PMC for a project is the ones that make release 
decisions.  Either make HttpClient a project, or have the active 
committers for the project join the PMC.

I have not shown interest in the PMC up untill now, but it sounds like 
my family is at risk, and I'm concerned.  In general, I just want to 
write code and progress HttpClient (of which I don't really have time 
for even this, but I like it so much I make time).  I don't appear to 
have been nominated (or have just shown up on the list like Stephen) but 
I am eligible (committer, release prime and active for 10 months).

Should I be seeking a seat on the PMC?

Yes.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Jeffrey Dever]

I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members voting on releases to 
the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the release prime for Commons 
HttpClient where all committers vote on all issues all the time, 
including releases.  HttpClient is somewhat unusual in commons as it is 
rather a large project with a dedicated mailing list and a rich family 
where many, such as myself, are primarily focused on just one project, 
HttpClient.

The new group of committers has really risen up out of the ashes of the 
old HttpClient which became quite idle over the first half of last year. 
These new committers are what makes HttpClient move forward, and I 
cringe at the thought of taking some, any,  responsibility away from 
them, away from us.

I am quite happy with how things are going right now.  Our contributor 
base continues to grow and we are back to doing releases (hurray).  We 
are using maven to build, have factored out some services into the Codec 
subproject and are looking to factor out URI into a new subproject.  We 
have over 250 Junit tests, are using commons-logging and have reached 
critical mass to support our own votes according to Jakarta guidelines. 
Some complain at our isolation, but I see this as desirable given the 
size of the codebase and the volume of email traffic (approx 400/month). 
Of course we have an open door policy and have good connections to 
those projects that are connected to HttpClient, such as Slide, Cactus 
and othes both inside and ourside of Apache.

There have been transitional pains, and growing pains, but all in all, I 
would say that HttpClient is a very healthy project.

To quote the quote of Sam, "Jakarta ... becoming a single community".  I 
like the sound of this, but please consider that communities are 
composed of families that a) are all members of the community, b) 
interact more frequently with their own family members than others in 
the community, c) may or may not share culture and d) a single family 
has differing relationships between families.

HttpClient has all the characteristics of a family in a community.  I 
don't want to see this relationship disrupted by taking voting power 
away from the family representitives, the committers.

I have not shown interest in the PMC up untill now, but it sounds like 
my family is at risk, and I'm concerned.  In general, I just want to 
write code and progress HttpClient (of which I don't really have time 
for even this, but I like it so much I make time).  I don't appear to 
have been nominated (or have just shown up on the list like Stephen) but 
I am eligible (committer, release prime and active for 10 months).

Should I be seeking a seat on the PMC?

Jeff (Jandalf) Dever.
HttpClient 2.0 release prime.


Conor MacNeill wrote:

Stephen Colebourne wrote:


Unless I am mistaken, being a PMC member implies an overseing role 
for the
whole of jakarta, 


No, not quite, IMHO. The PMC as a *whole* has an oversight role for 
the whole of Jakarta but individual PMC members do not need to oversee 
all of Jakarta. In fact this is the nub of the reorg issues which have 
been floating around. AIUI, the 7 member PMC approach was felt not to 
be able to adequately cover all of Jakarta and the PMC must grow to 
adequately provide oversight. Eventually most consistently active 
committers will join the PMC. This is the httpd model, for example. 
Sam is moving from where we have been to that point in a series of steps.

a requirement to follow PMC issues and votes and to be a
manager. Whilst the concept of being able to push forward jakarta, JSRs,
make decisions etc is appealing, I do not believe that I have the time
available to do the job. Hell, I already lack the time to fully 
oversee the
commons-lang, commons-collections and commons-clazz projects that I am
involved with as I would like :-)


If you are providing oversight of these projects, even to the extent 
you have time available, you are already filling one of the roles of a 
PMC member. If you have acted as a release manager, then you have 
performed a purely PMC role. All releases of Jakarta sub-projects must 
be approved by the PMC. This isn't something that has been done in 
Jakarta to date, really, but will be increasingly the case as the PMC 
expands. To quote Sam

"Longer term, the plan is to move the subprojects that chose to remain in
Jakarta towards becoming a single community - in particular release
votes will become a responsibility of the PMC.  That does not mean that
all PMC members will vote on all releases, but that it will be from this
pool of members that release votes will be cast.  Clearly there will
need to be a number waves of additions like the one above to the PMC
before we get to this point."





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Re: PMC Nomination

[Costin Manolache]

Conor MacNeill wrote:

> purely PMC role. All releases of Jakarta sub-projects must be approved by
> the PMC. This isn't something that has been done in Jakarta to date,

One good first step in this direction would be to at least Cc: the pmc
list on all [Vote result] messages, so all pmc should be aware of
the decisions made. 

I know there is no explicit rule for that - but it should be, at least
for release votes, and all "major" decisions. 

Costin




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Re: PMC Nomination

[Conor MacNeill]

Stephen Colebourne wrote:

Unless I am mistaken, being a PMC member implies an overseing role for the
whole of jakarta, 

No, not quite, IMHO. The PMC as a *whole* has an oversight role for the 
whole of Jakarta but individual PMC members do not need to oversee all of 
Jakarta. In fact this is the nub of the reorg issues which have been 
floating around. AIUI, the 7 member PMC approach was felt not to be able to 
adequately cover all of Jakarta and the PMC must grow to adequately provide 
oversight. Eventually most consistently active committers will join the PMC. 
This is the httpd model, for example. Sam is moving from where we have been 
to that point in a series of steps.

a requirement to follow PMC issues and votes and to be a
manager. Whilst the concept of being able to push forward jakarta, JSRs,
make decisions etc is appealing, I do not believe that I have the time
available to do the job. Hell, I already lack the time to fully oversee the
commons-lang, commons-collections and commons-clazz projects that I am
involved with as I would like :-)


If you are providing oversight of these projects, even to the extent you 
have time available, you are already filling one of the roles of a PMC 
member. If you have acted as a release manager, then you have performed a 
purely PMC role. All releases of Jakarta sub-projects must be approved by 
the PMC. This isn't something that has been done in Jakarta to date, really, 
but will be increasingly the case as the PMC expands. To quote Sam

"Longer term, the plan is to move the subprojects that chose to remain in
Jakarta towards becoming a single community - in particular release
votes will become a responsibility of the PMC.  That does not mean that
all PMC members will vote on all releases, but that it will be from this
pool of members that release votes will be cast.  Clearly there will
need to be a number waves of additions like the one above to the PMC
before we get to this point."



So, unless someone magically wants to convince me otherwise, I must
respectfully decline the pressgang.



Well, have I convinced you?

Conor



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PMC Nomination

[Stephen Colebourne]

Yesterday I received the Jakarta Monthly Newsletter. Interesting as always,
until I got to the section on PMC nominations. There, I suddenly found my
name listed as elected to the Jakarta PMC. This came as a complete surprise
and shock to me.

When I followed the relevant link, I discovered that a discussion had taken
place on this list, but I was not subscribed to general@jakarta (unless I'm
mistaken, I'm not required to subscribe). At no point was a personal email
sent to myself (or I guess the others nominated). I feel as though I have
been pressganged.

Unless I am mistaken, being a PMC member implies an overseing role for the
whole of jakarta, a requirement to follow PMC issues and votes and to be a
manager. Whilst the concept of being able to push forward jakarta, JSRs,
make decisions etc is appealing, I do not believe that I have the time
available to do the job. Hell, I already lack the time to fully oversee the
commons-lang, commons-collections and commons-clazz projects that I am
involved with as I would like :-)

So, unless someone magically wants to convince me otherwise, I must
respectfully decline the pressgang.

Stephen


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RE: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[John Grove]

If I had a vote, which I do not :-)  I would vote for Craig just because of
his support for the user community, which I am one.

John Grove
-Original Message-
From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:48 AM
To: Jakarta General List; Morgan Delagrange
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan




On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Morgan Delagrange wrote:

> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:16:55 -0600
> From: Morgan Delagrange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>  Morgan Delagrange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: General Jakarta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan
>
> I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
>

I accept nomination for re-election to the PMC.

You can find out more about me on the Struts "Who We Are" page:

  http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/userGuide/volunteers.html

At Apache, I got involved in the Apache JServ project before there was a
Jakarta (along with other long timers like Jon, Pier, and Stefano), and at
the ApacheCon just after the Tomcat source code was finally handed over to
Apache, told James Duncan Davidson in front of several hundred people that
the Sun code sucked ;-). (Want proof?  Just go back to the sources for
Tomcat 3.0, but don't do this on a full stomach ;-).

Over the last couple of years, I've been a big-time contributor on Tomcat
(Catalina's architecture is basically what Apache JServ 2.0 was going to
be), Struts (I'm the primary architect), and Commons.  Along the way,
I've been somewhat less involved with Taglibs and Watchdog.  I'm also a
pretty good chunk of Apache's "user support" on the TOMCAT-USER list.

I believe in Apache's goals w.r.t. open sourcing Java.  I don't have a lot
of patience for diatribes and mailing list flame fests -- they tend to be
counterproductive to these goals.  Therefore, you'll see more CVS commits
than discussion participation from me when the topic strays in those
directions.  (Interestingly, the overall level of CVS commits seems to be
inversely proportional to the vitriol in the current discussions ...)

One last note -- as most of you are probably aware, I work for Sun.  If
that fact, by itself, affects your vote, then you need to think about how
much you really believe in Apache's credo that contributors should be
judged on what they do, not who they work for.  (I'm sure you can find
plenty of other reasons not to vote for me, if that's what you want ;-).

>
> - Morgan Delagrange
>

Craig McClanahan


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Jakarta PMC Nomination Acceptance

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

Sorry about the delay.

I accept the nomination for re-election to the PMC.  I have several basic
beliefs related to the subject of jakarta governance :

 o That Java as a platform is facing some challenges, and that open source
practitioners, especially the Jakarta project, can help play a big role in
making Java a more open, and therefore stronger platform.

o The Jakarta sub-projects should be in charge of their destiny, able to
self-govern according to the dictates of the  sub-project community with
minimal constraints, such as those imposed by the Apache Software
Foundation's licensing and rules on IP, and the traditions of meritocracy
encoded in the Jakarta guidelines.

o That the Jakarta project is strongest when there is a clear scope and an
active community of like-minded individuals.  We are a large project and
must carefully manage our growth as we go forward.

In simple terms, a collection of strong states with a weak central
government to provide for common defense.

I am an EE and physicist by training, and have been a semi- and professional
programmer for about 15 years.  My work has been in the domains of digital
audio processing, image processing, Monte Carlo simulation of physical
systems, 'real-time' financial market data delivery, and lately Java server
infrastructure and applications, with a particular bent towards templating.

I am relatively new to Apache and Jakarta, but have been a longtime fan of
open source as a user. My major contributions to Jakarta are in the Velocity
project, having joined the project just after inception.  (Come take a look
at our latest - Velocity-Struts integration and DVSL, another kind of XML
transformation tool).  Since then, I helped establish the Commons project,
and have made minor contributions to one or two components.  Recently, my
major contributions to Commons seem to be non-cvs-related mail list traffic.
I don't expect many votes from there... :)  I am also a very inactive
committer in one of the turbine sub-projects, stratum.

And I don't work for anyone at the moment :)

geir

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting


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Re: Jakarta PMC nomination acceptance - Sam Ruby.

[Dirk-Willem van Gulik]

On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Sam Ruby wrote:

> Apparently the rules require me to accept and say a few words.

Sorry Sam - but we even have to make -you- do it. Just to keep up the
pretense (only once a year of course) that you are one of us mere mortals.

Dw


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Jakarta PMC nomination acceptance - Sam Ruby.

[Sam Ruby]

Apparently the rules require me to accept and say a few words.

My first exposure to open source was when I wanted to integrate PHP with
Tomcat.  I found PHP to be well designed and with a very active community
with hundreds of active committers.  Soon after I got started, I was
shocked to find people I didn't know making changes to "my" code.

By contrast, Tomcat's code base was as screwed up as Craig says it was.  I
was running on JDK 1.1.8 at the time on WinNT, and the README actually said
that if you were running this combination and wanted to serve static files,
upgrade.  And the community was as disfunctional as Costin implied.  I was
initially greeted with "hey, you're from IBM, we don't want your kind
around here".

As far as what's my platform: I prefer a minimum of central control.  I
want to continue to create an environment where those that want to
contribute are given the maximum opportunity to do so.  I prefer to cross
fertilize and inform rather than mandate.  And I'm patient.  And VERY
persistent.

Some even say I have a sense of humor...  ;-)

- Sam Ruby


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RE: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[Paulo Gaspar]

Yeahh!
Costin tends to be too quiet sometimes. I hope he is reversing that 
trend because I learn something most of the times he talks.

Have fun,
Paulo

> -Original Message-
> From: Remy Maucherat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 6:07 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache
> 
> 
> > After some thinking, I'm going to accept the nomination, even
> > if I don't quite believe jakarta needs 'management', 'committee' or
> > any other function besides 'jakarta commiter'.
> 
> Lol. Sellout !
> You're joining the establishment now !
> ;-)
> 
> I think I'll vote for you :)
> 
> Remy
> 
> 
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Re: PMC Nomination - Morgan Delagrange

[Morgan Delagrange]

Hi all,

Well, I shouldn't buck the trend;  here is some info about me.

I've been a Jakarta committer for approximately 13 months, 2 weeks.  I
started out on Taglibs, where I contributed a couple of taglibs to round out
the "scope" taglibs: session, application, request and application.  Soon
afterwards I donated the tag library which came to be known as "DBTags", a
tag library for basic JDBC access.  Ironically all of these tags will
probably be trumped by the "standard" tag library, which is now available as
an Early Access release.  Looks like I might need a new project!

I'm also a committer on the Commons project.  I have worked on DBCP, the
Logging component, HTTPClient, Latka (Latka is a functional testing program
with an XML interface), and the Commons charter.

Thanks for the nomination!

- Morgan


_
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


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Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[Remy Maucherat]

> After some thinking, I'm going to accept the nomination, even
> if I don't quite believe jakarta needs 'management', 'committee' or
> any other function besides 'jakarta commiter'.

Lol. Sellout !
You're joining the establishment now !
;-)

I think I'll vote for you :)

Remy


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RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar

[Paulo Gaspar]

Ok, now that I understand better how a PMC nomination works,
it looks like I have to say something about me besides just
saying that I accept - which I do.

I work on software development for almost 15 years and I 
only started using Apache software less than 2 years ago. I
got addicted very fast.

As many of you probably noticed, I do not believe on quietly
"accepting the facts". I also believe on defending my 
interests without hurting others and I often spend "too much"
effort defending what I consider fair.

And I do it for selfish reasons - I am depending on loads of
Jakarta software and I do not believe the Jakarta Project 
will survive unless we all win something.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

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RE: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[GOMEZ Henri]

A big big big +1

-
Henri Gomez ___[_]
EMAIL : [EMAIL PROTECTED](. .) 
PGP KEY : 697ECEDD...oOOo..(_)..oOOo...
PGP Fingerprint : 9DF8 1EA8 ED53 2F39 DC9B 904A 364F 80E6 



>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:37 AM
>To: Jakarta General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache
>
>
>After some thinking, I'm going to accept the nomination, even
>if I don't quite believe jakarta needs 'management', 'committee' or
>any other function besides 'jakarta commiter'.
>
>
>My Apache background:
>
>I've used Apache, linux, java servlets since the beginning ( or close
>enough ). I've learned that code is easy to write and doesn't
>matter that much - but solving problems, learning from others and
>getting involved.
>
>I've worked on tomcat, moving code around and trying to improve
>on what other people have done. Also some of the first
>ant tasks ( including the  that everyone hates ),
>and many flame wars.
>
>Overall, the high point for me on jakarta was not seeing tomcat
>released ( and used ), but getting other people to join and
>working with  some amazing people, and seeing  code like tomcat
>or ant 'live' and evolve, regardless of the code authors beeing
>around or not. Just compare the first version of ant or tomcat3.0
>with the current versions, and compare the list of commiters then
>with today - and you'll see what I mean.
>
>
>
>Costin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[Peter Donald]

On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:49, Bill Barker wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache
>
> > After some thinking, I'm going to accept the nomination, even
> > if I don't quite believe jakarta needs 'management', 'committee' or
> > any other function besides 'jakarta commiter'.
>
> If not for other reasons, for this alone, Costin has my (now ruled useless)
> +1.

Big +1 from me too. Wouldn't it be great if it was a requirement for PMC 
peeps to think this way :)


-- 
Cheers,

Pete

*-*
| Programming today is a race between software engineers  |
| striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof |
| programs,and the universe trying to produce bigger and  |
| better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. |
|   - Richard Cook|
*-*

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Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[Bill Barker]

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache


> After some thinking, I'm going to accept the nomination, even
> if I don't quite believe jakarta needs 'management', 'committee' or
> any other function besides 'jakarta commiter'.
>
If not for other reasons, for this alone, Costin has my (now ruled useless)
+1.


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Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[cmanolache]

After some thinking, I'm going to accept the nomination, even
if I don't quite believe jakarta needs 'management', 'committee' or
any other function besides 'jakarta commiter'.


My Apache background:

I've used Apache, linux, java servlets since the beginning ( or close
enough ). I've learned that code is easy to write and doesn't
matter that much - but solving problems, learning from others and
getting involved.

I've worked on tomcat, moving code around and trying to improve
on what other people have done. Also some of the first
ant tasks ( including the  that everyone hates ),
and many flame wars.

Overall, the high point for me on jakarta was not seeing tomcat
released ( and used ), but getting other people to join and
working with  some amazing people, and seeing  code like tomcat
or ant 'live' and evolve, regardless of the code authors beeing
around or not. Just compare the first version of ant or tomcat3.0
with the current versions, and compare the list of commiters then
with today - and you'll see what I mean.



Costin







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RE: PMC Nomination (Bodewig and MacNeill)

[Bojan Smojver]

On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 11:50, Conor MacNeill wrote:

> I spell colour with a "u", licence with a "c" unless it is a verb and I like
> Christmas at the beach.

On ya mate!

Bojan


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RE: PMC Nomination (Bodewig and MacNeill)

[Conor MacNeill]

I accept Magesh's nomination. Thanks to Magesh and Gier for their nomination
and +1.

Background

I became involved with Apache through Tomcat in late 99, contributing some
patches, bug fixes, etc. I had some problems building Tomcat with Ant, so I
focussed on fixing it and that began a long journey of contributing to Ant,
which is where I still make most of my contributions today. I think the
concept of community in Jakarta is important and I have made some great
friends as a result, most of whom I have never actually met in person.

Outside of Apache, I have developed software professionally for 14 years
ranging from hardware design, embedded operating systems written in
assembler, telecoms network software, network management, banking systems
and most recently J2EE systems for eCommerce.

I spell colour with a "u", licence with a "c" unless it is a verb and I like
Christmas at the beach. If you want to know more, send me an email.

Geir, I'm trying to remove classpath/classloader pain from Ant but no
promises :-)

Conor






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Re: PMC Nomination - Ted Husted

[Ted Husted]

Assuming there is a sufficient number of willing candidates to fill the
seven slots, I would respectfully decline my nomination, so as to ensure
someone else the chance to serve. 

It's been my experience that the best way to build community is to not
only participate yourself, but also to give others the chance to step up
to bat, and this seems like a good opportunity to do that =:0)

In the event another person is needed to serve on the Committee to fill
the seven seats, I would be happy to volunteer again. 

-Ted.

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Re: Are 3 votes necessary for the PMC nomination? [was: Re: To jvoteor not to jvote]

[Ted Husted]

Without digging, it seems to me that in the early discussions we decided
that the acceptance of the nomination by the candidate counted as the
"magic third vote".

Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
> 
> > So, what was the answer to the question below?  If we really do need two +1s
> > for a nomination, then I have some campaigning to do!  (Unless someone else
> > wants to go ahead and +1 me, if only to shut me up.  ;)
> 
> At this point the rules posted for the election do not require a nominee
> to be seconded; they just require someone to be nominated and the nominee
> to agree to be willing to take part in the election.
> 
> If desired we can work this habit of the group to vocally second
> nominations into the procedure for the future :-)
> 
> So in short. NO.
> 
> Dw
> 
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-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Java Web Development with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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Re: Are 3 votes necessary for the PMC nomination? [was: Re: To jvoteor not to jvote]

[Dirk-Willem van Gulik]

On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Morgan Delagrange wrote:

> So, what was the answer to the question below?  If we really do need two +1s
> for a nomination, then I have some campaigning to do!  (Unless someone else
> wants to go ahead and +1 me, if only to shut me up.  ;)

At this point the rules posted for the election do not require a nominee
to be seconded; they just require someone to be nominated and the nominee
to agree to be willing to take part in the election.

If desired we can work this habit of the group to vocally second
nominations into the procedure for the future :-)

So in short. NO.

Dw


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Re: Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[acoliver]

>On Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:29:39 -0800 Micael Padraig Og mac Grene
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote.
>McClanahan ROCKS!
>

+1

>At 12:32 PM 2/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>Craig McClanahan wrote:
>> >
>> > At Apache, I got involved in the Apache JServ project before there was
a
>> > Jakarta (along with other long timers like Jon, Pier, and Stefano), and
>>at
>> > the ApacheCon just after the Tomcat source code was finally handed over
>>to
>> > Apache, told James Duncan Davidson in front of several hundred people
>>that
>> > the Sun code sucked ;-).
>>
>>I was at that ApacheCon and can corroborate that Craig did exactly that.
>>
>> > One last note -- as most of you are probably aware, I work for Sun.  If
>> > that fact, by itself, affects your vote, then you need to think about
how
>> > much you really believe in Apache's credo that contributors should be
>> > judged on what they do, not who they work for.
>>
>> 1
>>
>>- Sam Ruby
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Micael Padraig Og mac Grene]

McClanahan ROCKS!

At 12:32 PM 2/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Craig McClanahan wrote:
> >
> > At Apache, I got involved in the Apache JServ project before there was a
> > Jakarta (along with other long timers like Jon, Pier, and Stefano), and
>at
> > the ApacheCon just after the Tomcat source code was finally handed over
>to
> > Apache, told James Duncan Davidson in front of several hundred people
>that
> > the Sun code sucked ;-).
>
>I was at that ApacheCon and can corroborate that Craig did exactly that.
>
> > One last note -- as most of you are probably aware, I work for Sun.  If
> > that fact, by itself, affects your vote, then you need to think about how
> > much you really believe in Apache's credo that contributors should be
> > judged on what they do, not who they work for.
>
>+1
>
>- Sam Ruby
>
>
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Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Sam Ruby]

Craig McClanahan wrote:
>
> At Apache, I got involved in the Apache JServ project before there was a
> Jakarta (along with other long timers like Jon, Pier, and Stefano), and
at
> the ApacheCon just after the Tomcat source code was finally handed over
to
> Apache, told James Duncan Davidson in front of several hundred people
that
> the Sun code sucked ;-).

I was at that ApacheCon and can corroborate that Craig did exactly that.

> One last note -- as most of you are probably aware, I work for Sun.  If
> that fact, by itself, affects your vote, then you need to think about how
> much you really believe in Apache's credo that contributors should be
> judged on what they do, not who they work for.

+1

- Sam Ruby


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Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Morgan Delagrange wrote:

> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:16:55 -0600
> From: Morgan Delagrange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>  Morgan Delagrange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: General Jakarta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan
>
> I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
>

I accept nomination for re-election to the PMC.

You can find out more about me on the Struts "Who We Are" page:

  http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/userGuide/volunteers.html

At Apache, I got involved in the Apache JServ project before there was a
Jakarta (along with other long timers like Jon, Pier, and Stefano), and at
the ApacheCon just after the Tomcat source code was finally handed over to
Apache, told James Duncan Davidson in front of several hundred people that
the Sun code sucked ;-). (Want proof?  Just go back to the sources for
Tomcat 3.0, but don't do this on a full stomach ;-).

Over the last couple of years, I've been a big-time contributor on Tomcat
(Catalina's architecture is basically what Apache JServ 2.0 was going to
be), Struts (I'm the primary architect), and Commons.  Along the way,
I've been somewhat less involved with Taglibs and Watchdog.  I'm also a
pretty good chunk of Apache's "user support" on the TOMCAT-USER list.

I believe in Apache's goals w.r.t. open sourcing Java.  I don't have a lot
of patience for diatribes and mailing list flame fests -- they tend to be
counterproductive to these goals.  Therefore, you'll see more CVS commits
than discussion participation from me when the topic strays in those
directions.  (Interestingly, the overall level of CVS commits seems to be
inversely proportional to the vitriol in the current discussions ...)

One last note -- as most of you are probably aware, I work for Sun.  If
that fact, by itself, affects your vote, then you need to think about how
much you really believe in Apache's credo that contributors should be
judged on what they do, not who they work for.  (I'm sure you can find
plenty of other reasons not to vote for me, if that's what you want ;-).

>
> - Morgan Delagrange
>

Craig McClanahan


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Re: PMC Nomination - Morgan Delagrange

[Ted Husted]

+1 for Morgan Delagrange

without reservation or hesitation :o)

Morgan's work in the Taglibs and Commons subprojects has been
outstanding and selfless.


"Waldhoff, Rodney" wrote:
> 
> I would like to nominate Morgan Delagrange for the PMC.  He's a founding
> member of and an active participant in jakarta-commons, is the author of
> some popular jakarta-taglibs tags, and has contributed a substantial amount
> of code, documentation and organizational support to both projects.

-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Java Web Development with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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Are 3 votes necessary for the PMC nomination? [was: Re: To jvote or not to jvote]

[Morgan Delagrange]

So, what was the answer to the question below?  If we really do need two +1s
for a nomination, then I have some campaigning to do!  (Unless someone else
wants to go ahead and +1 me, if only to shut me up.  ;)

- Original Message -
From: "Morgan Delagrange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: To jvote or not to jvote


> ARE two +1 votes necessary?  That was not mentioned in the original email
> "Announcement: JakartaPMC elections for 2002".  (Just to stave off any
> potential debate here, the ASF-appointed administrator gets to decide how
> elections are run.  It's not our call.)
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Paulo Gaspar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 2:52 PM
> Subject: RE: To jvote or not to jvote
>
>
> > Thanks Dirk.
> >
> >
> > But then, from what I can see in the "general" list, only
> > Geir has both the nomination and the 2 necessary additional
> > +1s all sent to "jvote".
> >
> > How should this be fixed?
> >
> >
> > This is what I see in "general":
> > (I am skipping those that refused the nomination.)
> >
> >  - Ted Husted
> >  The 3rd +1 did not get to "jvote".
> >
> >  - Stefan Bodewig
> >  - Conor MacNeill
> >  Nothing went to "jvote".
> >  (I think that both are still missing votes.)
> >
> >  - Scott Sanders
> >  Only the nomination went to "jvote".
> >
> >  - Sam Ruby
> >  Nothing went to "jvote".
> >
> >  - Peter Donald
> >  Nothing went to "jvote".
> >
> >  - Paulo Gaspar
> >  Nothing went to "jvote".
> >
> >  - Morgan Delagranje
> >  Only his acceptance went to "jvote".
> >
> >  - Geir Magnusson
> >  Enough votes went to "jvote".
> >
> >  - Diane Holt
> >  Only the nomination went to "jvote".
> >
> >  - Craig McClanahan
> >  Only the nomination and one vote went to "jvote".
> >
> >  - Costin Manolache
> >  Only the nomination and one vote went to "jvote".
> >
> > Have fun,
> > Paulo Gaspar
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 8:36 PM
> > > To: Jakarta General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: To jvote or not to jvote
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
> > >
> > > > >From the PMC nomination postings, some are going to
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and some not.
> > >
> > > > Why? What are the rules?
> > >
> > > See below. We'll debug the message for the next election to make sure
it
> > > is clearer.
> > >
> > > What we will be checking on the 7th is what we have received on the
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -> and in particular those messages
> > > from the nominee himself or herself that he or she is willing to
> > > be run in the election.
> > >
> > > Dw.
> > >
> > >
> > > T+7 Nominations for PMC needs to be in by 0:00 GMT 7th of
> > > February 2001. You can either nominate yourself - or
> > > nominate someone else. What counts is the confirmation
> > > from the nominee being received.
> > >
> > > ->  Posting a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with your candidature, a short
> > > description about who you are, what you want to
> > > accomplish.
> > >
> > > ->  Or if you are volunteered by someone else - a similar
> > > message confirming that you are accepting the
> > > nomination - with again - some details about yourself.
> > >
> > > ->  PMC seats are open to anyone. Regardless as to
> > > wether you are a committer, lurker or coder. And
> > > you can even nominate a complete outsider (assuming
> > > he or she would consent of course.)
> > >
> > > ->  The board volunteers handling the vote cannot
> > > be nominated.
> > >
> > > ->  The nomination must include the email address of
> > > the nominee. And it really should be a valid one :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>


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Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[hgo]

+1 

We should call Costin Professor since he's a terrific example
of patience and excellence, a very consensual man and a real
OSS and ASF spirit defensor 


jean-frederic clere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :

> I would like to nominate Costin Manolache for election to the PMC.
> 
> Costin has a wide area knowledge of ASF projects (Apr, httpd 1.3/2.0,
> tomcat3.x/4.0, Ant...).
> He has been contributing to Tomcat since the very first versions.
> 
> He has the patience of a good teacher and the spirit of a real
> "hacker".
> I know that he promotes OSS and OSS spirit from the jakarta-tomcat-*
> projects.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jean-frederic
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:  
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> 
> 
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Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[hgomez]

+1 

We should call Costin Professor since he's a terrific example
of patience and excellence, a very consensual man and a real
OSS and ASF spirit defensor 


jean-frederic clere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :

> I would like to nominate Costin Manolache for election to the PMC.
> 
> Costin has a wide area knowledge of ASF projects (Apr, httpd 1.3/2.0,
> tomcat3.x/4.0, Ant...).
> He has been contributing to Tomcat since the very first versions.
> 
> He has the patience of a good teacher and the spirit of a real
> "hacker".
> I know that he promotes OSS and OSS spirit from the jakarta-tomcat-*
> projects.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jean-frederic
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:  
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> 
> 
> 

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RE: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[Ignacio J. Ortega]

+1 

Saludos ,
Ignacio J. Ortega


> -Mensaje original-
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]En
> nombre de jean-frederic clere
> Enviado el: lunes 4 de febrero de 2002 18:59
> Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Asunto: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache
> 
> 
> I would like to nominate Costin Manolache for election to the PMC.
> 
> Costin has a wide area knowledge of ASF projects (Apr, httpd 1.3/2.0,
> tomcat3.x/4.0, Ant...).
> He has been contributing to Tomcat since the very first versions.
> 
> He has the patience of a good teacher and the spirit of a 
> real "hacker".
> I know that he promotes OSS and OSS spirit from the 
> jakarta-tomcat-* projects.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jean-frederic
> 
> --
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Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[Bojan Smojver]

Another legend. +1 by all means.

Bojan

On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 04:59, jean-frederic clere wrote:
> I would like to nominate Costin Manolache for election to the PMC.
> 
> Costin has a wide area knowledge of ASF projects (Apr, httpd 1.3/2.0,
> tomcat3.x/4.0, Ant...).
> He has been contributing to Tomcat since the very first versions.
> 
> He has the patience of a good teacher and the spirit of a real "hacker".
> I know that he promotes OSS and OSS spirit from the jakarta-tomcat-* projects.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jean-frederic
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> 



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Re: PMC Nomination - Morgan Delagrange

[Morgan Delagrange]

I accept this nomination, which was originally sent to the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list.  Thanks Rod!

- Original Message -
From: "Waldhoff, Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Jakarta General List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:15 AM
Subject: PMC Nomination - Morgan Delagrange


> I would like to nominate Morgan Delagrange for the PMC.  He's a founding
> member of and an active participant in jakarta-commons, is the author of
> some popular jakarta-taglibs tags, and has contributed a substantial
amount
> of code, documentation and organizational support to both projects.
>


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Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 2/4/02 12:59 PM, "jean-frederic clere"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I would like to nominate Costin Manolache for election to the PMC.
> 
> Costin has a wide area knowledge of ASF projects (Apr, httpd 1.3/2.0,
> tomcat3.x/4.0, Ant...).
> He has been contributing to Tomcat since the very first versions.
> 
> He has the patience of a good teacher and the spirit of a real "hacker".
> I know that he promotes OSS and OSS spirit from the jakarta-tomcat-* projects.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jean-frederic
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> 

+1

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"He who throws mud only loses ground." - Fat Albert


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RE: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[Paulo Gaspar]

I second that nomination.

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of jean-frederic clere
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 6:59 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache
> 
> 
> I would like to nominate Costin Manolache for election to the PMC.
> 
> Costin has a wide area knowledge of ASF projects (Apr, httpd 1.3/2.0,
> tomcat3.x/4.0, Ant...).
> He has been contributing to Tomcat since the very first versions.
> 
> He has the patience of a good teacher and the spirit of a real "hacker".
> I know that he promotes OSS and OSS spirit from the 
> jakarta-tomcat-* projects.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jean-frederic
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 

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PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[jean-frederic clere]

I would like to nominate Costin Manolache for election to the PMC.

Costin has a wide area knowledge of ASF projects (Apr, httpd 1.3/2.0,
tomcat3.x/4.0, Ant...).
He has been contributing to Tomcat since the very first versions.

He has the patience of a good teacher and the spirit of a real "hacker".
I know that he promotes OSS and OSS spirit from the jakarta-tomcat-* projects.

Cheers

Jean-frederic

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Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Oleg V Alexeev]

Hello Morgan,

+1

Saturday, February 02, 2002, 1:16:55 AM, you wrote:

MD> I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.

MD> Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
MD> cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments.  I can say, however,
MD> that his excellent and informed contributions to Commons, to Taglibs, and to
MD> numerous mailing lists prove his value to the community.

MD> - Morgan Delagrange


MD> _
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MD> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Colin Chalmers]

I'll second that, glad to see your not departing from jakarta altogether.

/colin

- Original Message -
From: "Paulo Gaspar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection


> Cool!
>
> That was what I understood but the tone of some remarks left me wondering.
>
> Have fun,
> Paulo
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 8:42 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection
> >
> >
> > Just to be clear, I'm not leaving Jakarta entirely, you will still have
to
> > put up with my bullshit every now and then...I'm just not going to
> > participate in the PMC politics any longer...
> >
> > -jon
>
>
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RE: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro]

Hola Santiago!

> -Mensaje original-
> De: Santiago Gala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> P.S.: (This holds for any Apache Committer coming to Madrid. I feel 
> quite isolated here).

Hey, perhaps there are no Apache Committers in Madrid, but there are surely
lots of Apache users! :)

Un saludo,

Alex.

Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Kevin A. Burton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> on 2/3/02 2:00 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Did you guys check out codecon - http://www.codecon.org
> > 
> > It is going to be held at the DNA Lounge (and I will be speaking about
> > Reptile)...
> 
> Yea, that sounds like a fun event...

you should come... it is only $40.00  compare that to the $1500.00 for the
Oreilly P2P conference and it is a no-brainer :)

> > hm... how long before Jon hosts an ApacheCon ??? ;)
> 
> I would definitely be into hosting an after party...:-)

Why wait until ApacheCon.  How about an Apache party now! :)

Kevin

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Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

How are you gentleman?
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iD8DBQE8Xf6QAwM6xb2dfE0RAiQgAJ9QgFoCfrjrPBMcAJjEXBp/7t5S/QCcCTvf
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=imZh
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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Jon Scott Stevens]

on 2/3/02 2:00 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Did you guys check out codecon - http://www.codecon.org
> 
> It is going to be held at the DNA Lounge (and I will be speaking about
> Reptile)...

Yea, that sounds like a fun event...

> hm... how long before Jon hosts an ApacheCon ??? ;)

I would definitely be into hosting an after party...:-)

-jon


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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Kevin A. Burton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> on 2/1/02 3:46 PM, "Remy Maucherat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Another famous OSS guy did that also (http://www.jwz.org/).
> > Are you guys starting a trend ? :)
> 
> Funny you should mention jwz. His club is right down the street from mine
> (http://www.dnalounge.com/). We are on the same block in SF and are
> essentially neighbors. I spent some time talking with one of his managers
> (Alexis) last night. Lots of fun indeed. :-)


Did you guys check out codecon - http://www.codecon.org

It is going to be held at the DNA Lounge (and I will be speaking about
Reptile)...

hm... how long before Jon hosts an ApacheCon ??? ;)

Anyway, good luck Jon.  Keep us updated... I will try to spend a lot of money
at your new club!

Kevin

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RE: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Paulo Gaspar]

Cool!

That was what I understood but the tone of some remarks left me wondering.

Have fun,
Paulo

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 8:42 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection
>
>
> Just to be clear, I'm not leaving Jakarta entirely, you will still have to
> put up with my bullshit every now and then...I'm just not going to
> participate in the PMC politics any longer...
>
> -jon


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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Jon Scott Stevens]

Just to be clear, I'm not leaving Jakarta entirely, you will still have to
put up with my bullshit every now and then...I'm just not going to
participate in the PMC politics any longer...

-jon


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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Santiago Gala]

Jon Scott Stevens wrote:

>Hey all,
>
>I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC nomination
>and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
>
>I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
>that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
>this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.
>
I'm sorry about this. Even when disagreeing with you I always got 
something to learn from the exchange.

>
>That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
>downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
>big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
><http://www.studioz.tv/> (p.s. that site is built with Anakia )
>
I have been tracking jwz.org, and reserved myself one night for my next 
trip to San Francisco to see JWZ's DNA Lounge. Now it will have to be 
two nights :)

(...)

See you 'round, Jon. Call if you come to Spain.

P.S.: (This holds for any Apache Committer coming to Madrid. I feel 
quite isolated here).



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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Ceki Gülcü]

Shit. You'll be sourly missed. I guess we could not expect you to be
the ugly duckling for ever. 

Best of luck with your new project. No doubt you'll do well.

At 12:19 01.02.2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey all,
>
>I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC nomination
>and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
>
>I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
>that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
>this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.
>
>That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
>downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
>big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
><http://www.studioz.tv/> (p.s. that site is built with Anakia )
>
>I also just released Scarab 1.0b1 and am focused primarily on making Scarab
>the best issue tracking tool around. Expect to see more great developments
>on this project. It is by far, one of the best designed, largest and most
>complex pieces of software that I have ever had the pleasure of helping
>develop. It will be around for a very long time and will eventually put
>Bugzilla out of business. More info: <http://scarab.tigris.org/>
>
>thanks,
>
>-jon
>
>
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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[robert burrell donkin]

good luck jon!

you'll be missed...

- robert

On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 08:19 PM, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC 
> nomination
> and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
>
> I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
> that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
> this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.
>
> That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
> downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
> big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
> <http://www.studioz.tv/> (p.s. that site is built with Anakia )
>
> I also just released Scarab 1.0b1 and am focused primarily on making 
> Scarab
> the best issue tracking tool around. Expect to see more great developments
> on this project. It is by far, one of the best designed, largest and most
> complex pieces of software that I have ever had the pleasure of helping
> develop. It will be around for a very long time and will eventually put
> Bugzilla out of business. More info: <http://scarab.tigris.org/>
>
> thanks,
>
> -jon
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Jon Scott Stevens]

on 2/1/02 3:46 PM, "Remy Maucherat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Another famous OSS guy did that also (http://www.jwz.org/).
> Are you guys starting a trend ? :)

Funny you should mention jwz. His club is right down the street from mine
(http://www.dnalounge.com/). We are on the same block in SF and are
essentially neighbors. I spent some time talking with one of his managers
(Alexis) last night. Lots of fun indeed. :-)

> Scarab 1.0 at last !!! :)
> I think we can start checking it out to replace Bugzilla with it eventually.
> I'm sure Justy will volunteer to start playing with it on nagoya.

It isn't final, but it is definitely usable...next up will be fixing some of
the performance issues...

-jon


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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Remy Maucherat]

> Hey all,
>
> I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC
nomination
> and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
>
> I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
> that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
> this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.

Your fireball made it look like you had a lot of extra energy left ;-)
Anyway, thanks for all the work.

> That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
> downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
> big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
> <http://www.studioz.tv/> (p.s. that site is built with Anakia )

Another famous OSS guy did that also (http://www.jwz.org/).
Are you guys starting a trend ? :)

> I also just released Scarab 1.0b1 and am focused primarily on making
Scarab
> the best issue tracking tool around. Expect to see more great developments
> on this project. It is by far, one of the best designed, largest and most
> complex pieces of software that I have ever had the pleasure of helping
> develop. It will be around for a very long time and will eventually put
> Bugzilla out of business. More info: <http://scarab.tigris.org/>

Scarab 1.0 at last !!! :)
I think we can start checking it out to replace Bugzilla with it eventually.
I'm sure Justy will volunteer to start playing with it on nagoya.

Remy


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Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Bojan Smojver]

The man is an absolute legend. I second that nomination!

Bojan

On Sat, 2002-02-02 at 09:16, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
> I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
> 
> Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
> cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments.  I can say, however,
> that his excellent and informed contributions to Commons, to Taglibs, and to
> numerous mailing lists prove his value to the community.
> 
> - Morgan Delagrange
> 
> 
> _
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> --
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> 



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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Ted Husted]

So long, and thanks for all the fish =:0)


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Java Web Development with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/


Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC nomination
> and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
> 
> I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
> that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
> this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.
> 
> That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
> downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
> big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
> <http://www.studioz.tv/> (p.s. that site is built with Anakia )
> 
> I also just released Scarab 1.0b1 and am focused primarily on making Scarab
> the best issue tracking tool around. Expect to see more great developments
> on this project. It is by far, one of the best designed, largest and most
> complex pieces of software that I have ever had the pleasure of helping
> develop. It will be around for a very long time and will eventually put
> Bugzilla out of business. More info: <http://scarab.tigris.org/>
> 
> thanks,
> 
> -jon
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Andrew C. Oliver]

+1

On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 17:16, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
> I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
> 
> Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
> cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments.  I can say, however,
> that his excellent and informed contributions to Commons, to Taglibs, and to
> numerous mailing lists prove his value to the community.
> 
> - Morgan Delagrange
> 
> 
> _
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> 
-- 
www.superlinksoftware.com
www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html 
- fix java generics!


The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote.
-Ambassador Kosh


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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Bojan Smojver]

Sorry to see you go. Thanks for all your help, which many times meant
simplifying things for me (read: Velocity rocks!).

Bojan

On Sat, 2002-02-02 at 07:19, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC nomination
> and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
> 
> I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
> that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
> this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.
> 
> That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
> downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
> big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
> <http://www.studioz.tv/> (p.s. that site is built with Anakia )
> 
> I also just released Scarab 1.0b1 and am focused primarily on making Scarab
> the best issue tracking tool around. Expect to see more great developments
> on this project. It is by far, one of the best designed, largest and most
> complex pieces of software that I have ever had the pleasure of helping
> develop. It will be around for a very long time and will eventually put
> Bugzilla out of business. More info: <http://scarab.tigris.org/>
> 
> thanks,
> 
> -jon
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 



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RE: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Paulo Gaspar]

At least it seems that your are in for serious fun!
Hard to imagine a better reason to quit the PMC.

I hope you enjoy it and thanks for making things happen.


All the best,
Paulo Gaspar

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:19 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection
>
>
> Hey all,
>
> I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC
> nomination
> and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
>
> I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
> that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
> this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.
>
> That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
> downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
> big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
> <http://www.studioz.tv/> (p.s. that site is built with Anakia )
>
> I also just released Scarab 1.0b1 and am focused primarily on
> making Scarab
> the best issue tracking tool around. Expect to see more great developments
> on this project. It is by far, one of the best designed, largest and most
> complex pieces of software that I have ever had the pleasure of helping
> develop. It will be around for a very long time and will eventually put
> Bugzilla out of business. More info: <http://scarab.tigris.org/>
>
> thanks,
>
> -jon


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RE: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Paulo Gaspar]

+1 to Craig!

> -Original Message-
> From: Morgan Delagrange [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:17 PM
> To: General Jakarta
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan
>
>
> I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
>
> Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
> cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments.  I can
> say, however,
> that his excellent and informed contributions to Commons, to
> Taglibs, and to
> numerous mailing lists prove his value to the community.
>
> - Morgan Delagrange
>
>
> _
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>


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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Micael Padraig Og mac Grene]

Thanks, Jon.  You are a legend.

At 12:19 PM 2/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey all,
>
>I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC nomination
>and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
>
>I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
>that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
>this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.
>
>That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
>downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
>big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
><http://www.studioz.tv/> (p.s. that site is built with Anakia )
>
>I also just released Scarab 1.0b1 and am focused primarily on making Scarab
>the best issue tracking tool around. Expect to see more great developments
>on this project. It is by far, one of the best designed, largest and most
>complex pieces of software that I have ever had the pleasure of helping
>develop. It will be around for a very long time and will eventually put
>Bugzilla out of business. More info: <http://scarab.tigris.org/>
>
>thanks,
>
>-jon






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Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Kathleen Zelony]

>I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.

I give this nomination a STRONG approval.

-kz
>X-Authentication-Warning: engmail1.Eng.Sun.COM: noaccess owned process doing 
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>From: "Morgan Delagrange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "General Jakarta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan
>Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:16:55 -0600
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>
>I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
>
>Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
>cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments.  I can say, however,
>that his excellent and informed contributions to Commons, to Taglibs, and to
>numerous mailing lists prove his value to the community.
>
>- Morgan Delagrange
>
>
>_
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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Re: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 2/1/02 5:16 PM, "Morgan Delagrange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
> 
> Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
> cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments.  I can say, however,
> that his excellent and informed contributions to Commons, to Taglibs, and to
> numerous mailing lists prove his value to the community.
> 
> - Morgan Delagrange
> 
> 

Serious +1

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr.  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the
freeness of speech." - Benjamin Franklin



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RE: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan

[Scott Sanders]

+1.  Craig is good, sometimes too good :)

Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Morgan Delagrange [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:17 PM
> To: General Jakarta
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan
> 
> 
> I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
> 
> Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ 
> people do), so I cannot give a complete rundown of his 
> accomplishments.  I can say, however, that his excellent and 
> informed contributions to Commons, to Taglibs, and to 
> numerous mailing lists prove his value to the community.
> 
> - Morgan Delagrange
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Do You Yahoo!?
> 
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> <mailto:general-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For 
> additional commands, 
> e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

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