: J2EE considered harmful
Hi Tim.
I agree with your point of view, we've been trying to avoid EJBs as much
as
possible. But there's one thing I don't understand.
-Mensaje original-
De: Tim Hyde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Yes, EJB is a complete bodge of a design, and RPC
Hi Tim!
This is good news indeed: someone took the time to actually read a message
and respond to it, instead of sending 100's of nonsensical one-liners ;)
Answer inline.
-Mensaje original-
De: Tim Hyde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Hi Alex,
You ask why I think it's important to
I agree Jeff; though for such a smart container to work in an elegant way
I'd prefer to develop the beans in a non-distributed manner and the smart
container do the rest - distributing what it thinks makes sense - along the
EOB / AltRMI lines. Not code to a server side componet API like EJB.
]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:38 PM
Subject: RE: J2EE considered harmful
Amusingly enough, I've been considering writing an article with this
exact same title. I've implemented two medium-sized systems using EJBs
(http://www.similarity.com and http
From: Micael Padraig Og mac Grene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Are you just talking about creating a new language, or what? What is
your
idea? I cannot tell.
That's a good question, and ultimately one which would be determined by
the constraints of the technology. Prototyping would
- Original Message -
From: Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:38 PM
Subject: RE: J2EE considered harmful
Amusingly enough, I've been considering writing an article with this
exact same title. I've implemented two
]]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:54 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: J2EE considered harmful
From: Micael Padraig Og mac Grene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Are you just talking about creating a new language, or what? What is
your
idea? I cannot tell.
That's a good
of the Sun/Microsoft duopoly. (Yeah, yeah, there will always be people
who enjoy working on nonvirtual machines, but they're crazy :-)
I'm not completely sure I followed this. I was cool up until the above
line. Are you suggesting just a replacement for J2EE or Java itself.
I'm fairly
: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:03 AM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful
Albeit at the expense of scalability
On Thu, 2002-01-31 at 09:51, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
I think that the key bit
-Original Message-
From: Jeff Schnitzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:54 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: J2EE considered harmful
From: Micael Padraig Og mac Grene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Are you just talking about creating a new
,
Paulo Gaspar
-Original Message-
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:19 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful
So what if you need to move an object that is defined as local to be
load balanced
Perhaps the question to ask is how are real sites providing real
scalabilty without resorting to Enterprise JavaBeans?
Take google.com and yahoo.com for example,
Yahoo offers a signficant number of remote, multi-user applications like
the ones we would like to provide to our own clients. Are
Hey Andrew
Insteresting thread ;-)
- Original Message -
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 04:14, James Strachan wrote:
Hi Jeff
I share your oppinions on EJB. Whenever I ask developers why they are
using
EJB the common answer I get from people is
.
We keep trying to get as close to having them as possible but...
Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar
-Original Message-
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:19 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful
Those are both search engines with non-critical data update issues. You
do need an example with more business-logic oriented type
functionality. I could mock something like those up with Lucene just
with a few routers and pushing the indicies to the mirrored systems.
This doesn't answer the
Hi Jeff,
-Mensaje original-
De: Jeff Schnitzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
[...]
I've been giving a lot of thought to distributed object models lately.
I've worked with DCOM, CORBA, RMI, and EJB, and for the most
part it's a
lot of the same. Since networks are getting so fast
yahoo.com goes way beyond a search engine:
Email, address books, auctions, classified ads, file storage, calendars
and shared calendars, personalized portals for like 27 different sub
applications, the list goes on.
Yahoo is delivering a vast number of dynamic applications to an
incredible
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 10:46, Ted Husted wrote:
yahoo.com goes way beyond a search engine:
Email, address books, auctions, classified ads, file storage, calendars
and shared calendars, personalized portals for like 27 different sub
applications, the list goes on.
Yahoo is delivering a
PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 01 February 2002 16:46
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful
yahoo.com goes way beyond a search engine:
Email, address books, auctions, classified ads, file storage,
calendars
and shared calendars, personalized portals for like 27
You know, since Apache is a member of the J2SE group at Apache, it would
make a lot of sense for us to develop a resource page regarding J2SE
scalability.
I'd be very happy to start and maintain such a page here, as I do for
Struts.
http://husted.com/struts/resources.htm
If anyone has some
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 11:07, Ted Husted wrote:
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 10:46, Ted Husted wrote:
yahoo.com goes way beyond a search engine:
Email, address books, auctions, classified ads, file storage, calendars
and shared calendars, personalized portals for
(too bad I'll be boycotting Yahoo soon because they use pop-up ads which
I consider SOoo unprofessional)
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 11:00, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 11:07, Ted Husted wrote:
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 10:46, Ted Husted wrote:
distributed without careful
consideration.
-Original Message-
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 8:19 AM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful
So what if you need to move an object that is defined as local
A 10,000 node linux cluster. http://www.google.com/press/highlights.html
-Original Message-
From: Alef Arendsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:58 AM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful
As far as I can remember
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
#1 you don't need to use EJBs to distribute business logic If you do
need to
distribute business logic, then there are various alternatives open,
from
HTTP/Servlets, JMS, SOAP or EJB. Each should be evaluated on their
merits,
cost/benefits etc.
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:35:55 - James Strachan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote.
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
#1 you don't need to use EJBs to distribute business logic If you do
need to
distribute business logic, then there are various alternatives open,
from
HTTP/Servlets, JMS, SOAP
On 2/1/02 8:57 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps the question to ask is how are real sites providing real
scalabilty without resorting to Enterprise JavaBeans?
Take google.com and yahoo.com for example,
Yahoo offers a signficant number of remote, multi-user applications
I agree quite a lot with Andrew. In fact, I agree enough that I stopped using
EJBs around the middle of last year because they are SUCH a pain to build and
maintain, and because the performance sucks and there's nothing you can do
about it, even if you pay the high premiums for advanced
From: acoliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:35:55 - James Strachan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote.
JMS is not
appropriate for a number of areas.
Like what?
UI, guaranteed failure situations.
I don't follow. JMS/MOM is one of the only solutions where clients and
servers work
From: James Strachan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
(*) One thing I've noticed with SOAP is that developers from the
different
camps (web/MOM, CORBA/EJB) seem to see SOAP as different things. The
web/MOM
guys tend to think of SOAP as a universal message format so the same
structured message
From: Steve Downey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Most objects don't work if they are made distributed without careful
consideration.
I wonder if that has to be the case. Right now, our distributed object
containers are blissfully stupid. We (humans) can point at any
individual class or
I've been lurking on this list for several years, and not speaking about
things I'm not contributing to.
But Andy's comment here about EJB J2EE goes right to the point, and
triggers my passion ...
As an architect, I've been in 5 projects in the last 2.5 years where EJBs
were on the table, and
Hi Tim.
I agree with your point of view, we've been trying to avoid EJBs as much as
possible. But there's one thing I don't understand.
-Mensaje original-
De: Tim Hyde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Yes, EJB is a complete bodge of a design, and RPC invocation
techniques
would only be
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
To be fair, WebSphere is probably more troublesome then the other
containers (at least thats been my experience with it). I do think
there is a time and place for RPC. I however think better support for
location independence is required.
(snip)
I would suggest
snip
I have implemented a system using Container Managed EntityBeans that
worked fairly well. I used Jonas (it was some time ago). It
was smaller
than the original poster example (about 20 entity classes, tens of
thousands of instances). I spent a lot of time getting the
entity
At 12:36 PM 1/31/2002 -0500, Steve Downey wrote:
EJB also brings to the table all of the problems of the Object/Relational
impedance mismatch. It's an empirical fact at this point that rows in a
table are bad objects. They're data, and have no behavior. Turning them into
objects with container
the DynaBeans stuff.
Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar
-Original Message-
From: Andrus Adamchik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: J2EE considered harmful
...
Well, if EJB (or others) are doing it wrong, it doesn't mean
A bit more of OT inline:
=;o)
-Original Message-
From: Andrus Adamchik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:50 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: J2EE considered harmful
At 09:11 PM 1/31/2002 +0100, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
(1) Not using that kind
the
specific issues of a remote call.
Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar
-Original Message-
From: Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 1:50 PM
To: 'Jakarta General List'
Subject: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful
Hi Tim
Amusingly enough, I've been considering writing an article with this
exact same title. I've implemented two medium-sized systems using EJBs
(http://www.similarity.com and http://mav.sourceforge.net/pig) and I've
been haunting the ejb-interest list for more than a year. I was never
ecstatic
Are you just talking about creating a new language, or what? What is your
idea? I cannot tell.
At 12:38 PM 1/31/02 -0800, you wrote:
Amusingly enough, I've been considering writing an article with this
exact same title. I've implemented two medium-sized systems using EJBs
41 matches
Mail list logo
