Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-08 Thread Vincent Massol

I've had a look at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html ...

Here are the strange things I found :
* Alexandria : no user list (Pier I thought you said ALL projects had both
lists ;-) )
* Avalon : no user list and a strange cvs list (I thought all CVS messages
went to the devlist ?)
* Commons : information not updated
* Jakarta documentation : only a docs@ : no user and dev and a cvs list ...
* Log4j : a cvs list
* Velocity a TDK list : Question : do we say that -user and -dev lists are
mandatory and projects are allowed to create additional lists ?
* Watchdog : no user list

In summary, there is still some work to be done to homogeneize lists ... :)

Who takes charge of changing this ?

Thanks
-Vincent

- Original Message -
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Brian Behlendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval


 Brian Behlendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Lists to moderate:
  - slide-dev (Remy)
  - slide-user (Remy)
 
  Email address?  Er, I'll let you deal with it.

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] :) He's one of my fellow bandwidth stealers :)
 (I contacted him and he agreed, in exchange for WebMail on
betaversion.org.
 Done - apart from webmail!)

  Lists to nuke:
  - check-dev
  - docs
  - josper-dev
 
  I'll let you do these.

 Done...

  Lists to rename:
  - jakarta-commons (commons-dev)

 Renamed... (or better, created new mailing list, moved all regular and
 digest subscribers, posted a couple of test messages to see that
everything
 was working right and removed the old list - leaving the post address to
be
 an alias to the new mailing list!)

  - cactus-user (commons-user or commons-cactus-user)
  - servletapi-dev (collapse into tomcat-dev)
  - watchdog-dev (collapse into tomcat-dev)
 
  I'll let you do these.

 I'm waiting for feedback on those...

 Pier


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-08 Thread Pier Fumagalli

Vincent Massol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Regarding cactus :
 
 I think we should leave a few more days for other committer to vote. I don't
 know what the standard number of days to leave. Why don't we say until
 monday 12:00 PM GMT. Then we submit the proposition to the PMC for their
 blessing.
 
 How is that ?

That's why I said waiting for feedback...

Pier


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-08 Thread Vincent Massol

Hey, don't take me wrong here  :-)

I just jumped in because I saw some post on this newsgroup saying that you
wanted to homogeneise mailing lists ... I probably misunderstood the intent
which was maybe only to standardise on the mailing-list names (or rather to
align with the existing standard :)) ...

Ok for doing the website but I would have preferred someone who has already
done it and has everything set up on his machine (I don't and will have to
learn the mechanism before so it'll take a some time). To summarise, there
are 2 things to correct: remove the doc mailing list and correct the
commons one.

Regarding your quote, I looked for it in my emails ... and couldn't find
it ... :) I guess I dreamed it ... So I apologise and I owe you a beer. Tell
me when you are in London and we'll go to the pub someday :-)

Have a goo weekend
Cheers,
-Vincent

- Original Message -
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval


 Vincent Massol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I've had a look at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html ...
 
  Here are the strange things I found :
  * Alexandria : no user list (Pier I thought you said ALL projects had
both
  lists ;-) )

 I thought doesn't work... Give me a quote of me saying that, and I'll owe
 you a beer...

  * Avalon : no user list and a strange cvs list (I thought all CVS
messages
  went to the devlist ?)

 Depends on the project...

  * Commons : information not updated

 Do it :) I manage EZMLM, someone please kick some code in the website...

  * Jakarta documentation : only a docs@ : no user and dev and a cvs list
...

 In fact there was no traffic... I deleted that mailing list yesterday
since
 noone complained...

  * Log4j : a cvs list

 They have a CVS list, so what? APR, HTTPD, and many others have a -cvs
list.
 Some of the Jakarta project decided to collapse it with the -dev... Some
 didn't...

  * Velocity a TDK list : Question : do we say that -user and -dev lists
are
  mandatory and projects are allowed to create additional lists ?

 Their list is velocity-tdk-dev... So, (kudos to Jon)
 project-subproject-identifier, in line with our guidelines... As CVS
 trees... Jakarta-project-subproject-subsubproject

  * Watchdog : no user list

 So?

  In summary, there is still some work to be done to homogeneize lists ...
:)

 No, there's no work to be done... Apart from a website fix (and I am NOT
 going to do that... Someone else please volunteer): removing docs and
 modifying commons.

 If a project don't wont a -user list because they don't feel like having
 reached that point where users do bother on the developer list, I'm not
 going to force them to have one. If a project wants a CVS list because
they
 don't want all -dev traffic mixed with it, that's FINE... As long as we
 agree on the basic naming scheme, I'm fine...

  Who takes charge of changing this ?

 You :) At least for the website part... Nothing else need to be done...

 Pier


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-08 Thread Jon Stevens

on 9/8/01 5:26 AM, Vincent Massol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ok for doing the website but I would have preferred someone who has already
 done it and has everything set up on his machine (I don't and will have to
 learn the mechanism before so it'll take a some time). To summarise, there
 are 2 things to correct: remove the doc mailing list and correct the
 commons one.

cvs co jakarta-site2
cd jakarta-site2
edit xdocs/site/mail2.xml
ant
cvs ci

It isn't rocket science.

-jon


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-08 Thread Vincent Massol


- Original Message -
From: Jon Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval


 on 9/8/01 5:26 AM, Vincent Massol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Ok for doing the website but I would have preferred someone who has
already
  done it and has everything set up on his machine (I don't and will have
to
  learn the mechanism before so it'll take a some time). To summarise,
there
  are 2 things to correct: remove the doc mailing list and correct the
  commons one.

 cvs co jakarta-site2
 cd jakarta-site2
 edit xdocs/site/mail2.xml
 ant
 cvs ci

 It isn't rocket science.


Yep, thanks for the tutorial. I have done the changes. However, I haven't
modified the archiving on mail-archive for Commons as I'm not sure what to
do (and do not have the rights). We probably need to subscribe the new
commons-dev@... to it. Do we need to do something to prevent creating a new
archive (http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html#duplicate) ?

thanks
-Vincent


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-08 Thread Vincent Massol


- Original Message -
From: Jon Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval


 on 9/8/01 5:26 AM, Vincent Massol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Ok for doing the website but I would have preferred someone who has
already
  done it and has everything set up on his machine (I don't and will have
to
  learn the mechanism before so it'll take a some time). To summarise,
there
  are 2 things to correct: remove the doc mailing list and correct the
  commons one.

 cvs co jakarta-site2
 cd jakarta-site2
 edit xdocs/site/mail2.xml
 ant
 cvs ci

 It isn't rocket science.


you forgot the second part (which I had to make up myself ! :) ):

ssh -l xxx jakarta.apache.org
cd /www/jakarta.apache.org/site
cvs update mail2.html

-Vincent


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-08 Thread Pier Fumagalli

Vincent Massol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hey, don't take me wrong here  :-)

I don't :) :) :)

 I just jumped in because I saw some post on this newsgroup saying that you
 wanted to homogeneise mailing lists ... I probably misunderstood the intent
 which was maybe only to standardise on the mailing-list names (or rather to
 align with the existing standard :)) ...

Homogenization on naming... My bad... I should have pointed that out :)

 Ok for doing the website but I would have preferred someone who has already
 done it and has everything set up on his machine (I don't and will have to
 learn the mechanism before so it'll take a some time). To summarise, there
 are 2 things to correct: remove the doc mailing list and correct the
 commons one.

Well, then I'm in your same set... I've never done it :) :) :)

 Regarding your quote, I looked for it in my emails ... and couldn't find
 it ... :) I guess I dreamed it...

Guess so :) :) :) Hehehehe

 So I apologise and I owe you a beer. Tell
 me when you are in London and we'll go to the pub someday :-)

Somehow I _live_ there, St. Katherine's Docks, Tower Bridge... Let's meet
sometime :)

 Have a goo weekend

Just got back from Camden with 300 pounds less in my pockets (damn
CyberDog), so the week-end is looking great :)

Pier


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-07 Thread Brian Behlendorf

On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
  Currently, the following lists have -MU set, and really should be
  reconsidered:
 
  bugs

 Hmmm... This is unused... I would suggest converting it to an alias to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Done.

  jakarta-commons (which should be renamed to commons, btw)

 [EMAIL PROTECTED], to be exact... I can go ahead and do the
 conversion of the actual ML, and put [EMAIL PROTECTED] as
 an alias for that list...

Please do.

  library-dev

 There's no whatsoever traffic on that list... I don't know what's it all
 about even IF I am listed as the owner of it... Either someone claims its
 usefulness (only spam received on that list since months), or I'll just
 remove it.

Done.

  The following lists are set to -mU, which means all messages are
  moderated:
 
  announcements

 That should stay as-is...

Yes.

  taglibs-user (this I don't understand)

 I'm going to change this one to be -mu...

Cool.

 Lists to moderate:
 - slide-dev (Remy)
 - slide-user (Remy)

Email address?  Er, I'll let you deal with it.

 Lists to nuke:
 - bugs
 - library-dev

Done

 - check-dev
 - docs
 - josper-dev

I'll let you do these.

 Lists to rename:
 - jakarta-commons (commons-dev)
 - cactus-user (commons-user or commons-cactus-user)
 - servletapi-dev (collapse into tomcat-dev)
 - watchdog-dev (collapse into tomcat-dev)

I'll let you do these.

 Lists to modify (-mu instead of -mU):
 - taglibs-user (Get me off moderation for this one please!)

Done.

On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Ted Husted wrote:
struts-dev
   struts-user
 
  Moderator for those two should be Craig :)

 Or me. Craig keeps pretty busy with Tomcat these days ;-)

Done.

 
   taglibs-dev
 
  And for this one too (Craig? :)

 Or me. I'm the PMC contact.

Done.

Brian


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-07 Thread Pier Fumagalli

Brian Behlendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Lists to moderate:
 - slide-dev (Remy)
 - slide-user (Remy)
 
 Email address?  Er, I'll let you deal with it.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] :) He's one of my fellow bandwidth stealers :)
(I contacted him and he agreed, in exchange for WebMail on betaversion.org.
Done - apart from webmail!)

 Lists to nuke:
 - check-dev
 - docs
 - josper-dev
 
 I'll let you do these.

Done...

 Lists to rename:
 - jakarta-commons (commons-dev)

Renamed... (or better, created new mailing list, moved all regular and
digest subscribers, posted a couple of test messages to see that everything
was working right and removed the old list - leaving the post address to be
an alias to the new mailing list!)

 - cactus-user (commons-user or commons-cactus-user)
 - servletapi-dev (collapse into tomcat-dev)
 - watchdog-dev (collapse into tomcat-dev)
 
 I'll let you do these.

I'm waiting for feedback on those...

Pier


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-06 Thread Pier Fumagalli

Brian Behlendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 this didn't seem to go through yesterday

It did :)

 -- Forwarded message --
 Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:24:32 -0700 (PDT)
 From: Brian Behlendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: lists that don't require subscriber approval
 
 Today, the tomcat-user list was spammed by an errant mailer-daemon out
 there that sent out nearly 300 email messages to the rest of the list.
 There are 1091 subscribers to that list, so 300K messages were sent out -
 or nearly that many, as Pier told me about it and I shut down qmail,
 removed the offending messages from the queue (after a half hour of grep
 and awk action to identify those bad messages and nuke them).  That was
 not fun, and it was a good thing I was back from Burningman today and
 could fix it, or all mail for apache.org would have been fuct for
 potentially days.

As I said, as soon as I noticed, I unsubbed anyone from that domain from all
mailing lists (thinking it was a some sort of auto reply to each single
message posted on the list). When I noticed that even after unsubbing those
guys I was still flooded by messages, I created the deny mail from list of
addresses and put that email address in there, but the queue was already WAY
backlogged... And I contacted Brian on the spot...

(BTW, I didn't create that mailing list, and I don't know who did it, I just
noticed what was happening, but - hey - it's not by fault! :)

 This was possible only because the mailing list was running with the -MU
 options set to ezmlm - which means basically anyone can post.  If that's
 changed to -mu, it changes the behavior of the list to subscribers can
 post, non-subscribers have their messages bounced to the moderators for
 approval.  I really really really recommend all lists run this option -
 the only place where I can see it not being appropriate are lists that
 intentionally welcome posts from outsiders, such as [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 where bouncing or delaying such a message would potentially be a serious
 problem.  Any list larger than a few people should have -mu set.

Agreed...

 Currently, the following lists have -MU set, and really should be
 reconsidered:
 
 bugs

Hmmm... This is unused... I would suggest converting it to an alias to
[EMAIL PROTECTED], and I would like to have a couple of volunteers to help
me out on that...

 jakarta-commons (which should be renamed to commons, btw)

[EMAIL PROTECTED], to be exact... I can go ahead and do the
conversion of the actual ML, and put [EMAIL PROTECTED] as
an alias for that list...

 library-dev

There's no whatsoever traffic on that list... I don't know what's it all
about even IF I am listed as the owner of it... Either someone claims its
usefulness (only spam received on that list since months), or I'll just
remove it.

 pmc

This is a small list... Could remain open, as we want anyone to be able to
post to the PMC, and subscription is (I believe) moderated...

 servletapi-dev

I propose collapsing this one with tomcat-dev... Servlet API and Tomcat are
more or less the same thing, and keeping a mailing list only for CVS
putbacks is (IMO) wrong... Also because I would love to see those putbacks
on the tomcat-dev mailing list, where they are more relevant...

 slide-dev
 slide-user

Moderator for those two too... (Remy?)

 struts-dev
 struts-user

Moderator for those two should be Craig :)

 taglibs-dev

And for this one too (Craig? :)

 The following lists are set to -mU, which means all messages are
 moderated:
 
 announcements

That should stay as-is...

 taglibs-user (this I don't understand)

I'm going to change this one to be -mu...

 Let me know if I can make this change.

I and Craig can take care of changing moderations/options for the lists, The
only thing you should do is check out that archives are generated correctly.

Things I also noticed:

- cactus-user

I don't know what this is all about... There is no archive, cactus is
related to the commons project, so, it should be really a
commons-user@jakarta...

- check-dev

No traffic since october 1999... I propose to erase this one...

- docs

This seems to be unused... I can't see any relevant traffic but various spam
on the archives...

- josper-dev

I believe this was erroneously created (josper? It's JASPER! :) Blast it

- watchdog-dev

It should be treated (IMO) as servletapi-dev... Collapse it with tomcat-dev.

To sum up:

Lists to moderate:
- slide-dev (Remy)
- slide-user (Remy)
- struts-dev (Craig)
- struts-user (Craig)
- taglibs-dev (Craig)

Lists to nuke:
- bugs
- library-dev
- check-dev
- docs
- josper-dev

Lists to rename:
- jakarta-commons (commons-dev)
- cactus-user (commons-user or commons-cactus-user)
- servletapi-dev (collapse into tomcat-dev)
- watchdog-dev (collapse into tomcat-dev)

Lists to modify (-mu instead of -mU):
- taglibs-user (Get me off moderation for this one please!)

Please advise (ASAP, please)...

Pier (CCing general@jakarta since there 

Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-06 Thread Peter Donald

On Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:44, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
 Things I also noticed:

 - cactus-user

 I don't know what this is all about... There is no archive, cactus is
 related to the commons project, so, it should be really a
 commons-user@jakarta...

I think when it was initially voted on it was to be named 
commons-cactus-user@ or commons-cactus@ or similar. Not sure what 
happened though. The reason for keeping it separate was that it was 
generating a fair number of messages that most commons users didn't want to 
see ;)

-- 
Cheers,

Pete


 Beer is proof that God loves us and wants 
 us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-06 Thread Vincent Massol


- Original Message -
From: Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval


 On Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:44, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
  Things I also noticed:
 
  - cactus-user
 
  I don't know what this is all about... There is no archive, cactus is
  related to the commons project, so, it should be really a
  commons-user@jakarta...

 I think when it was initially voted on it was to be named
 commons-cactus-user@ or commons-cactus@ or similar. Not sure
what
 happened though. The reason for keeping it separate was that it was
 generating a fair number of messages that most commons users didn't want
to
 see ;)


You're right. The name [EMAIL PROTECTED] was the voted
name. I seem to remember that the list name was changed at the last minute
to be cactus-user@... because there was the intention to make Cactus a root
project in the future and a name change being a major change it was
preferred to name right away cactus-user@... However, you're right and I
don't think it was done in a orderly manner and I don't remember any voting
on the subject.

Maybe now is the right time to vote for making Cactus a top level project ?
Are there conditions for that (like number of hits,downloads, community) ?
Who decides, PMC members ?

Thanks
-Vincent Massol



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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-06 Thread Pier Fumagalli

Vincent Massol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 just sent a request for vote now on [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...
 :)

Since you're at it already, can you please also tell them that I'm going to
change the mailing list name from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ? :)

Let me know...

Pier


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Re: lists that don't require subscriber approval

2001-09-06 Thread Jon Stevens

on 9/6/01 7:45 AM, Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 P.S.  Perhaps the right fix here is to create a jakarta-cactus subproject.
 
 Agreed... I would kindly ask to the Jakarta-Commons people, to vote on
 making Cactus become a top-level subproject of Jakarta, we'll move from
 there...
 
   Pier

Or:

jakarta-commons-cactus

-jon (who is enjoying the current low creation rate of top level projects)



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