Daniel Drake wrote:
Is the above correct?
AFAIK, yes.
Daniel Drake wrote:
I can understand that the system may have been dreamed up with this in
mind, and this certainly isn't an unreasonable design, but I don't see
the corresponding text in the GLEP.
Which does not seem to be a problem to
On Sat, 5 May 2007 00:17:46 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 04 May 2007 17:38:43 -0500
Steev Klimaszewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
otherwise, yeah, elog does the same thing already...
Experience has shown that news items work in delivering this kind of
information
On Sat, 5 May 2007 00:52:46 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 4 May 2007 19:48:19 -0400
Dan Meltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That seems like a really bad road to go down.
Would it not be better to extend elog to alert people at the end of
an install as well?
On Fri, May 04, 2007 at 10:49:47PM +0200, Piotr Jaroszy??ski wrote:
Justification: major config format change.
As of Paludis 0.24, the use of '*' to match all packages in the Paludis
configuration files 'use.conf', 'keywords.conf' and 'licenses.conf' is
deprecated in favour of '*/*'. You
It looks like it is not clear enough what kind of news should be called
critical.
If for instance an upgrade from package foo-3.4 to foo-4.0 will cause
the system to break unless specific steps are followed (mysql/gcc), it's
obvious that it's suitable for a news item.
If an upgrade from an
On Sat, 5 May 2007 10:07:41 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What experience? So far there have been no news items.
Paludis has had working news items for ages, and we've used them in the
overlay.
The issue about elog messages being one shot things is rather
outdated (at least for
On Sat, 5 May 2007 10:30:40 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And given that the GLEP specifically states that news items are not
suposed to replace the usual postinst einfo/elog messages I'm tempted
to call this an abuse of the news framework.
The usual postinst messages are
On Sat, 5 May 2007 13:44:54 +0200
Maurice van der Pot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It looks like it is not clear enough what kind of news should be
called critical.
It's quite simple. If something is of sufficient interest to users who
would be shown the news item that it is worth them seeing a
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Sat, 5 May 2007 10:30:40 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And given that the GLEP specifically states that news items are not
suposed to replace the usual postinst einfo/elog messages I'm tempted
to call this an abuse of the news framework.
The
On Sat, 05 May 2007 14:53:47 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For what situation? Changing * to */* is a bunch of config files (as
far as I've been told, paludis warns about this deprecated syntax
anyway)?
If we are going to abuse critical news reporting feature for such
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Sat, 05 May 2007 14:53:47 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For what situation? Changing * to */* is a bunch of config files (as
far as I've been told, paludis warns about this deprecated syntax
anyway)?
If we are going to abuse critical news reporting
On Sat, 05 May 2007 15:15:55 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Only Paludis users will use the news item. To Paludis users, the
news item is not a triviality or noise. To everyone else it's
irrelevant.
How does it matter exactly whether it's paludis users, gcc users, php
users,
On Sat, 5 May 2007 13:46:32 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2007 10:30:40 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And given that the GLEP specifically states that news items are not
suposed to replace the usual postinst einfo/elog messages I'm
tempted to
What experience? So far there have been no news items. The issue
about elog messages being one shot things is rather outdated (at least
for portage), and post-merge information is the domain of elog (as
stated in the GLEP).
As Ciaran explained below, the paludis overlay has been using them
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Sat, 05 May 2007 15:15:55 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How does it matter exactly whether it's paludis users, gcc users, php
users, apache users or whoever else who will use the news item? Let's
not misuse news framework for stuff that
Er, that's
On Sat, 5 May 2007 15:28:21 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2007 13:46:32 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2007 10:30:40 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And given that the GLEP specifically states that news items are
not
On Sat, 05 May 2007 15:37:36 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's not what I've been pointing out at all, you've completely
snipped the important part about *unintended* use of this feature.
So, once again - this is not an elog replacement and is not intended
for trivial stuff (see
Stephen P. Becker napsal(a):
For example, a recent news
item in the paludis overlay informed users on how to properly set
everything up for userpriv with paludis-0.22, a description that was far
too detailed for elog, and which I didn't have time to read the very
minute that I installed the
On Sat, 5 May 2007 13:45:47 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2007 10:07:41 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What experience? So far there have been no news items.
Paludis has had working news items for ages, and we've used them in
the overlay.
The
On Sat, 05 May 2007 15:48:28 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, I'm afraid that GLEP42 is missing the part that critical news
reporting does not replace documentation. You seriously intend to use
this feature for such stuff and force everyone to download this via
rsync?
You
On Sat, 5 May 2007 15:51:25 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry, but I'd hardly call _your_ experience with paludis overlay
users a reliable indicator that g42 news are superior to elog for
Gentoo at large. Please stop pretending that you're speaking
for/about the majority of our
On Saturday, May 5, 2007 03:23:41 PM Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
[Paludis configuration: * - */*]
Experience and user feedback has shown that in situations like this
users want an accompanying news item even if the application does
output deprecation warnings.
Currently, there are two news item in
On Sat, 5 May 2007 16:05:08 +0200
Wulf C. Krueger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Saturday, May 5, 2007 03:23:41 PM Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
[Paludis configuration: * - */*]
Experience and user feedback has shown that in situations like this
users want an accompanying news item even if the
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Sat, 05 May 2007 15:48:28 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, I'm afraid that GLEP42 is missing the part that critical news
reporting does not replace documentation. You seriously intend to use
this feature for such stuff and force everyone to download
On Sat, 05 May 2007 16:15:33 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You seriously intend to use elog across lots of ebuilds rather than
a single news item?
Yeah, I seriously think package documentation belongs to tarballs and
gets installed to /usr/share/docs/${PF} - not to gentoo-x86
On Saturday, May 5, 2007 04:14:25 PM Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Currently, there are two news item in the Paludis overlay. Unless
earlier ones were removed, those two seem to be a fairly small sample
to deduce anything from.
They were.
How many news items did you issue? (It's probably easier
On Sat, 5 May 2007 16:40:12 +0200
Wulf C. Krueger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Saturday, May 5, 2007 04:14:25 PM Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Currently, there are two news item in the Paludis overlay. Unless
earlier ones were removed, those two seem to be a fairly small
sample to deduce
On Sat, 5 May 2007 09:37:17 -0400
Stephen P. Becker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What experience? So far there have been no news items. The issue
about elog messages being one shot things is rather outdated (at
least for portage), and post-merge information is the domain of
elog (as stated in
On Sat, 5 May 2007 17:12:03 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
a g42 news item shouldn't be issued for minor syntax
changes in config files that could just as well handled completely
automatically in postinst/CONFIG_PROTECT.
And these changes can't be handled that way, since paludis
Stephen Bennett napsal(a):
On Sat, 5 May 2007 17:12:03 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
a g42 news item shouldn't be issued for minor syntax
changes in config files that could just as well handled completely
automatically in postinst/CONFIG_PROTECT.
And these changes can't
On Sat, 05 May 2007 17:34:39 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stephen Bennett napsal(a):
On Sat, 5 May 2007 17:12:03 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
a g42 news item shouldn't be issued for minor syntax
changes in config files that could just as well handled
On Sat, 5 May 2007 16:23:53 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2007 17:12:03 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(My) Experience has also shown that gentoo-x86/portage users like
the elog features in portage, so stop with those games, they don't
get us
On Sat, 5 May 2007 17:44:46 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why did I knew that this argument would come? Maybe because it's your
default reaction to any opposition.
What, providing evidence to the contrary? What more do you want?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
Description:
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2007 17:44:46 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why did I knew that this argument would come? Maybe because it's your
default reaction to any opposition.
What, providing evidence to the contrary? What more do you want?
This is such a
On Sat, 2007-05-05 at 16:51 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2007 17:44:46 +0200
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why did I knew that this argument would come? Maybe because it's your
default reaction to any opposition.
What, providing evidence to the contrary? What more
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2007 13:44:54 +0200
Maurice van der Pot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It looks like it is not clear enough what kind of news should be
called critical.
It's quite simple. If something is of sufficient interest to
On Sat, 05 May 2007 17:08:50 +
Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You're arguing this news item will only be shown to paludis users, but
you're forgetting that paludis users also use many other packages in
the tree. Assume user X has many packages on his system including
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 06:21:47PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
So the only important question is whether the news items are useful for
the people who will see them. In this case we know the answer is yes.
No one answered my question asked in Message-ID:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] what paludis actually
Have there been news items yet, which mentioned changes in config files, which
did (as far as i understood it) not break the directly next version which is
upgraded too, but just made a bunch of warnings arise that the config file
uses the old format which now is deprecated, telling the user to
Wernfried Haas wrote:
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 06:21:47PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
So the only important question is whether the news items are useful for
the people who will see them. In this case we know the answer is yes.
No one answered my question asked in Message-ID:
[EMAIL
On Sat, 5 May 2007 19:34:22 +0200
Wernfried Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 06:21:47PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
So the only important question is whether the news items are useful
for the people who will see them. In this case we know the answer
is yes.
No one
On Saturday, May 5, 2007 07:46:47 PM Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
It warns noisily. It doesn't say how to fix it.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: [WARNING] In program paludis -ip kdelibs:
... When making environment from specification '':
... When loading paludis configuration:
... When reading licenses file
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 06:46:47PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
It warns noisily.
Then it's not even close to being broken and i don't see the need for
a news item.
It doesn't say how to fix it.
I'm sure that can be arranged even without a news item.
Imho the whole GLEP process is being
On Sat, 5 May 2007 21:18:38 +0200
Wernfried Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 06:46:47PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
It warns noisily.
Then it's not even close to being broken and i don't see the need for
a news item.
You don't use Paludis. Paludis users do see the
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 08:29:14PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
You don't use Paludis.
Irrelevant to the issue at hand. We're discussing the (ab-)use of the
news system, not my personal choice of package manager.
Paludis users do see the need for a news item.
Not the question if paludis
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Sat, 5 May 2007 21:18:38 +0200
Wernfried Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 06:46:47PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
It warns noisily.
Then it's not even close to being broken and i don't see the need for
a news item.
You don't use
On Sat, 5 May 2007 22:00:27 +0200
Wernfried Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Paludis users do see the need for a news item.
Not the question if paludis users see the need. Not even the question
if i see the need. The point is that GLEP 42 doesn't.
GLEP 42 is designed to deliver important
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:03:08 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, then frankly feed those news to your overlay users
A good number of Paludis users don't use the overlay.
Because the above is clearly stupid - what are you really after here,
may I ask? I guess amne is right here.
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Sat, 5 May 2007 22:00:27 +0200
Wernfried Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Paludis users do see the need for a news item.
Not the question if paludis users see the need. Not even the question
if i see the need. The point is that GLEP 42 doesn't.
GLEP 42 is
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:19:27 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Sat, 5 May 2007 22:00:27 +0200
Wernfried Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Paludis users do see the need for a news item.
Not the question if paludis users see the need. Not even the
question
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:19:27 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Sat, 5 May 2007 22:00:27 +0200
Wernfried Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Paludis users do see the need for a news item.
Not the question if paludis users see the
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 09:27:41PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:19:27 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, is this the 'how stupid this thread can become' contest?
No, it's about delivering the best experience we can to end users. If
you're wanting to find a
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:37:37 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Erm, not really? This is about proper usage of GLEP42 stuff.
Yes, it is about proper usage of GLEP 42. This news item is one example
of that.
There's nothing critical about your * stuff.
Sure there is. If users aren't
Am Samstag 05 Mai 2007 22:44 schrieb Ciaran McCreesh:
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:37:37 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Erm, not really? This is about proper usage of GLEP42 stuff.
Yes, it is about proper usage of GLEP 42. This news item is one example
of that.
There's nothing
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:03:08 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, then frankly feed those news to your overlay users
A good number of Paludis users don't use the overlay.
Because the above is clearly stupid - what are you really after here,
may I ask? I
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
There's nothing critical about your * stuff.
Sure there is. If users aren't informed about the change in an
appropriate manner, the users get annoyed.
You're trying to sabotage this based upon arguments over wording
technicalities. Where is your evidence that
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:37:37 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Erm, not really? This is about proper usage of GLEP42 stuff.
Yes, it is about proper usage of GLEP 42. This news item is one example
of that.
There's nothing critical about your * stuff.
Sure
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 09:54:08PM +0100, George Prowse wrote:
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:03:08 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, then frankly feed those news to your overlay users
A good number of Paludis users don't use the overlay.
Because the above is
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:56:58 +0200
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not trying to sabotage anything but total misuse of the feature.
Would have the same objections wrt whatever other critical news
that'd constitute completely inappropriate usage of GLEP42 features.
(And I'd expect that
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 09:44:35PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
There's nothing critical about your * stuff.
Sure there is. If users aren't informed about the change in an
appropriate manner, the users get annoyed.
There's a lot of subjectivity in this sentence... appropriate...
annoyed...
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Piotr Jaroszy?ski wrote:
Hello,
Thanks to zmedico we now have support for news items on infra-side and heck
they are ready to use. And we should use them!
Attaching news item for paludis 0.24.
Justification: major config format change.
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Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
Piotr Jaroszy?ski wrote:
Hello,
Thanks to zmedico we now have support for news items on infra-side and heck
they are ready to use. And we should use them!
Attaching news item for paludis 0.24.
I've tried to divide up the various things being discussed here.
Regarding paludis:
- The syntax change in question affects =paludis-0.24
- The old syntax is still accepted
- A warning message is printed to the console by paludis when
the old (deprecated) syntax is detected
- The
Hello,
Thanks to zmedico we now have support for news items on infra-side and heck
they are ready to use. And we should use them!
Attaching news item for paludis 0.24.
Justification: major config format change.
--
Best Regards,
Piotr Jaroszyński
Title: Changes for Paludis 0.24
Author: Piotr
Hi,
Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
Hello,
(...)
Display-If-Installed: =sys-apps/paludis-0.24
You mean Display-If-Installed: sys-apps/paludis-0.24, right?
Regards,
Thomas
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
On Friday 04 of May 2007 23:46:39 Thomas Rösner wrote:
You mean Display-If-Installed: sys-apps/paludis-0.24, right?
No, I want it displayed only after installation of the new version.
--
Best Regards,
Piotr Jaroszyński
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
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Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
On Friday 04 of May 2007 23:46:39 Thomas Rösner wrote:
You mean Display-If-Installed: sys-apps/paludis-0.24, right?
No, I want it displayed only after installation of the new version.
Isn't such use case just a
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 12:13:12AM +0200, Vlastimil Babka wrote:
Isn't such use case just a replacement for elog? I thought news were
supposed to be delivered before upgrading. Also You should update your
configuration files after upgrading. sounds like something one would
read before
Alexander Færøy kirjoitti:
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 12:13:12AM +0200, Vlastimil Babka wrote:
Isn't such use case just a replacement for elog? I thought news were
supposed to be delivered before upgrading. Also You should update your
configuration files after upgrading. sounds like something one
Petteri Räty kirjoitti:
Alexander Færøy kirjoitti:
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 12:13:12AM +0200, Vlastimil Babka wrote:
Isn't such use case just a replacement for elog? I thought news were
supposed to be delivered before upgrading. Also You should update your
configuration files after upgrading.
On Sat, 05 May 2007 01:30:05 +0300
Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So let's say this was a message about package foobar. If it only
affects users after they upgrade it would mean that new installs
would get the news item too, wouldn't it?.
Yep. This situation was discussed when designing
On Sat, 05 May 2007 01:34:37 +0300
Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ah found it in the GLEP:
The package manager filters the news item and, if it is relevant,
marks the news item for reading. The package manager should also
display a notice informing the user that there are unread news
Ciaran McCreesh kirjoitti:
On Sat, 05 May 2007 01:34:37 +0300
Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ah found it in the GLEP:
The package manager filters the news item and, if it is relevant,
marks the news item for reading. The package manager should also
display a notice informing the user
On Friday 04 May 2007 4:49:47 pm Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
Hello,
Thanks to zmedico we now have support for news items on infra-side and heck
they are ready to use. And we should use them!
Attaching news item for paludis 0.24.
Justification: major config format change.
How does this fit the
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 05 May 2007 01:30:05 +0300
Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So let's say this was a message about package foobar. If it only
affects users after they upgrade it would mean that new installs
would get the news
On Fri, 4 May 2007 18:50:00 -0400
Dan Meltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How does this fit the following parts of the GLEP?
Preemptive
Preemptiveness is not a requirement for this particular news item. It's
necessary in many places but not this one.
Additionally, what about this is so
On Sat, 05 May 2007 00:56:35 +0200
Vlastimil Babka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Display-If-Installed: sys-apps/paludis-0.24
Will encourage users who don't have 0.24 installed to make the change,
which will break.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
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Alexander Færøy wrote:
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 12:13:12AM +0200, Vlastimil Babka wrote:
Isn't such use case just a replacement for elog? I thought news were
supposed to be delivered before upgrading. Also You should update your
configuration files
On Fri, 04 May 2007 17:38:43 -0500
Steev Klimaszewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Right which... seems to me something I would want to know
*BEFORE* I upgraded...
No no, if you find out before you upgrade you preemptively change your
config files and the old version breaks. If you find out
On Sat, 05 May 2007 01:47:07 +0300
Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How can there be new messages with emerge --pretend if emerge --sync
is the only way to get them? Should be saying unread messages and it
would be clear to me.
A new message is one that hasn't been read.
--
Ciaran
On Friday 04 May 2007 6:58:44 pm Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Fri, 4 May 2007 18:50:00 -0400
Dan Meltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How does this fit the following parts of the GLEP?
Preemptive
Preemptiveness is not a requirement for this particular news item. It's
necessary in many places
On Fri, 4 May 2007 19:48:19 -0400
Dan Meltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That seems like a really bad road to go down.
Would it not be better to extend elog to alert people at the end of
an install as well?
Doesn't help. It's only there once, and it's easy to ignore. Users
don't have to
On Friday 04 May 2007 8:01:58 pm Dan Meltzer wrote:
On Friday 04 May 2007 7:52:46 pm Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Fri, 4 May 2007 19:48:19 -0400
Dan Meltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That seems like a really bad road to go down.
Would it not be better to extend elog to alert people at
On Fri, 4 May 2007 20:01:58 -0400
Dan Meltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Doesn't help. It's only there once, and it's easy to ignore. Users
don't have to explicitly mark it as read, so it's frequently not
read. elog is not an adequate solution.
Emm, That would depend upon the viewer I'd
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