r developers and users
alike to simply settle on it as their standard, leaving support for other
alternatives to those who might feel the need to develop and document
them, and if they're not documented, well...
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as it made a lot
more sense to me to have say applications or libraries at the product
level, and the cat/pkg at the component level, or even category as the
product and package as the component. But it was already too late to
change that when I became a gentooer in 2004, let alone now.
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Justin Lecher posted on Mon, 01 Feb 2016 12:08:32 +0100 as excerpted:
[Title/description only comment, body quote snipped]
What about eclass twos and eclass threes?
IOW, s/ones/once/
Meanwhile, thanks, you and everyone else working so hard on EAPI-6
upgrades. =:^)
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nly track the individual files, but
individual lines within them. While with patch-files losing the
individual line tracking isn't generally a huge loss (the patches tend to
be replaced as a whole, without line-level changes within a single
patch), losing the per-component-patch file tra
age, on bugzilla, or perhaps discussed
on the portage list first, if you had questions before filing the bug.
This list is for more general gentoo development discussion, tho as you
saw, we try to answer the occasional question coming this way, as well.
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one of
the layman discussions on the wiki or mailing lists, etc, which is why I
knew about it.
But do be aware, laymansync only works with layman installed. If it's
not installed and sync-type is set to laymansync, attempts to sync will
error out with unknown sync-type errors.
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Mike Frysinger posted on Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:40:04 -0500 as excerpted:
> if base-system@ isn't going to maintain it, we'll punt it from the herd
> -mike
Umm, you mean project, right? Because the whole discussion here is part
of getting rid of herds. =:^)
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without having to worry
about setting up your own pkg_postinst or stepping on anything
pkg_postinst related setup elsewhere.
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v. Is it OK to send the email to devmanual@g.o and CC
> gentoo-dev@lists.g.o?
While I'm not a dev and thus can't give the OK, I'd say "Yes, please."
I think a lot more people see it and can benefit when it's on gentoo-
dev. I know I'm finding it interesting, even sim
Dirkjan Ochtman posted on Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:13:41 +0100 as excerpted:
> Display-If-Installed: www-servers/apache
Can't that be made
packages... thanks. =:^)
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ing using references-header threading instead of subject-
only threading.
Ordinarily that's discouraged when the subject is entirely unrelated, but
if the subject is taken to be herd -> project announcements and
discussion thereof rather than the specific announcement, it fits. So no
compl
erally religious are still wary of that.
That's one of the reasons the post-9/11 federally mandated ID reforms had
so much resistance, and those aren't required to buy or sell. If someone
tried to mandate something like that for financial transactions it could
very easily spark a
breaks without any of the other files openrc
provided, but that doesn't mean nothing else in the tree does.
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Andreas K. Huettel posted on Sat, 12 Dec 2015 21:29:30 +0100 as excerpted:
> Am Samstag, 12. Dezember 2015, 10:15:05 schrieb Duncan:
>>
>> What I would have expected to see here (and in other docs-related
>> patches) would be cleanly separate EAPI-5 vs. EAPI-6 descriptions,
use of the old varnames in EAPI-6 (due to the unset)
2) use of the new varnames in EAPI-5 (due to the unset and reassignment)
3) uncaught and unchanged reference to the old vars (due to the unset)
Again, when eapi-5 code cleanup time comes, it's just deletion of the
eapi-5 lines. No else clause to unwind. And in the mean time, the code
isn't duplicated to eapi-5 and eapi-6 locations with only differing vars.
=:^)
Seems cleaner to me, but as I said above, purely a matter of author style,
so if you don't like it, feel free to ignore.
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ing compatible EAPIs after Z...
that's a problem we'll be lucky to have! =:^)
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#x27;s in, unless I'm checking the
canonical path as installed by the package, for which equery belongs
works nicely. But I'm a btrs user and upstream btrfs list regular so I
care about that angle, thus this reply. =:^)
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ature and
reason to exist. On Gentoo, not so much, not because maintainers won't
do their honest best to support you on stable (they generally do), but
because that's simply not Gentoo's primary product or reason for
existence -- on Gentoo, that primary product and reason for existence is
generally considered to be more the end user customizability --
otherwise, why not just be a binary distro and avoid all that hassle of
end-user building in the first place.
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things. =:^)
And while we're at it, thanks for the metadata-integrated git mirror, as
well, as I use it. =:^)
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o
the extent already written on the label for people accepting the risk of
~arch accept-keywording specific packages.
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m
>> git
> FYI, this was implemented [but generation takes some time...].
As one of those originally posting agreement with the OP...
Thanks!! =:^)
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Duncan posted on Tue, 03 Nov 2015 06:43:45 + as excerpted:
> Without that, confusion reigned, and blaming the user for confusion in
> the absence of official signaling really doesn't help the situation,
> either.
I originally added, but unfortunately it got lost in the editing
oesn't,
the official signaling of what the stopgap changelog alternatives were
until the scripts were running to regenerate them from git, simply wasn't
there. Without that, confusion reigned, and blaming the user for
confusion in the absence of official signaling really doesn't
t OSS, against the global level but
proprietary resources of github, so while a different tradeoff, it'd
hardly be a better or more reliable one. Which pretty much leaves us
exactly where we were, with gerrit/java up against a wall of infra
opposition that's going to be hard to break down.
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t commit access, thereby eliminating at least that security threat.
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Rich Freeman posted on Sun, 01 Nov 2015 20:56:24 -0500 as excerpted:
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>> I know if I were still on rsync (or webrsync), I'd be raising hell
>> about the lack of
>> changelogs well before now
rsync (or webrsync), I'd be raising hell about the lack of
changelogs well before now, and the github mirror I'm actually using
clearly isn't suited as general gentoo user solution because it /would/
then be a gentoo dependency and thus a violation of the social contract,
so I'
sed to pressing a button
and waiting... it's definitely nice to be back on my own faster system
again. So I know what it's like trying to work with slow responding
systems for hours at a time, and yes, while one does get used to it, it
certainly does get old, and I can well imagin
it's a
mess we've generally already adjusted to, eapply_user gets called as a PM
function, and all the auto* and etc magic gets called in src_configure,
just before the normal configure functionality.
Would that force the ordering of something else that's a solved problem
now, to u
lem. If we don't fix that, we'll
simply be trying to replace one small bit of the information we so
mercilessly stripped out with those forced-to-one-dimension rebases,
instead of deciding that stripping all that information out in the first
place wasn't such a good idea afte
actually reading these things, too. =:^) And I too have been frustrated
trying to do so, but IMO this is fixing the bit that's /not/ broken, not
what is. More about that in a response I'll be posting elsewhere on-
thread.]
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ficial testing is all
that upstream makes available, any gentoo stable indicator must /clearly/
be based on gentoo-level stability, /maybe/ based partly on the opinions
of other distros shipping it, but obviously not based on upstream's
classification, since they don't even make a stab
he first place turned off, on non-
hardened kernels.
In any case, doesn't seem to be btrfs related at all. False alarm there.
=:^)
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rnings, however, and I'm doing an update
including 41.0.1 ATM, so I can verify, tho of course FF takes awhile to
build and it's near the end of a list of 100+ packages to update, so...
Could it be related to one of FEATURES="ipc-sandbox sandbox userpriv
usersandbox xattr" (choosing a few from my set that look like possible
candidates)?
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ng the
annoyance/spam bit. Tho I hadn't thought of it as a btrfs thing, but
yes, I'm running it too.
Can't those messages be turned off, if, say, the kernel doesn't support
pax, or if btrfs-progs is installed, or something?
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&q
27;s obviously some backstory that could prove interesting
to the discussion, that people with intact @systems probably would have
never noticed.)
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tter and the reviewer together growing in
their understanding of the code they both work with, and in the better
end result that comes of that process.
And it really /is/ a neat thing to watch unfold, as I have the privilege
of doing both on the portage-dev list and on the btrfs list, because
they
ual commit, not the push that
lands all those individual commits upstream.
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's
not the same people repeating the same problem.
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he worse headache to try to deal
with, since it's often only caught at runtime, and even then, may only be
caught in specific corner-cases when something doesn't load or isn't
found that you know is installed and should be found and load.
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the package, I want
to be informed of the USE changes in any case, while with deps,
particularly simple subslot deps, I'd prefer to avoid worrying about it
in the first place, and the easiest way to do that right now is with
--changed-deps, tho a proper revbump policy should avoid that.
reasonable enough indication of it being
in a quote, I'd say, even if other styles of quoting aren't so accurately
detectable.
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on't have gentoolkit installed and don't know why, that it
doesn't work with their PM or so, they probably simply followed the basic
handbook install and are thus using portage. In which case, that's a
hint to install gentoolkit... If they're using a PM other than portage,
rs, but AFAIK discussion is where it remained.
What about omitting the three chars "to " (including the space) and
reordering, like so:
OpenRC-0.18 localmount and netmount changes
wc -c says 44 for that. =:^)
Otherwise, looks reasonable here. =:^)
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8cda13a
> dev-ruby/ruby-goocanvas 20150927-11:10 mrueg ef36d5a
Congrats on tying up another git transition loose end, with this
automated post rescripted and working again now. =:^)
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a m
I don't think we can assume that package B will
> always work with the latest available SLOT package A can have in the
> future.
SGTM. =:^)
Even for packages in the default slot-0 that should work, and it'll make
the introduction of a new version much easier. =:^)
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ause a rebuild anyway
?? Only with --newuse or similar, tho? Otherwise USE (or USE_EXPAND
here) changes don't trigger rebuilds, do they?
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Rich Freeman posted on Thu, 17 Sep 2015 21:46:50 -0400 as excerpted:
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>> So council was called in, and it asked the portage folks to take some
>> steps that, portage development being what it is, had the
Which probably is too much to easily fit a news item. In such cases, the
news item generally becomes a brief overview, with a link to (now) a wiki
page, with further detail.
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preferred it, except of
course where compatibility is necessary, and it explicitly is not here,
since gentoo and PMS explicitly specify bash.)
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without help for many others.
Tho a word of caution, --changed-deps defaults to --selective as well,
which messed with my emerge scriptlets until I added --selective=y/n as
appropriate to each.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master
se they could also match pkg-1.0.2aa (not sure if it's still valid
> atom) and pkg-1.0.20 respectively.
What about combining (positive) deps and blockers, deping on =pkg-1.0.2a*
and blocking >=pkg-1.0.2b ? Wouldn't that resolve the unintended matches?
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nscreen-
keyboard, effectively only in X. (My touchpad works with gpm to the
extent that the pointer moves, but without hardware buttons I can't
really click anything, which means no onscreen keyboard at the CLI
either, even if there's some ncurses or whatever based solution that
presumably would work with gpm, and I'm not aware of any, tho perhaps
I've just missed it.)
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Rich Freeman posted on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 06:48:13 -0400 as excerpted:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 6:00 AM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> Just bite the bullet and create entire USE flag families such that an
>> ebuild can choose the flag appropriate to how it
the build choice, and let the return tell them what to
build. Thus, it would be once per PM, plus possibly the expansion in the
eclass, with little code in the ebuilds themselves. So complex, yes, but
if it can solve the problem so we don't keep coming back to it...
Like I said, I'm not
o. Perhaps better can be done, but in the absence of better at the
moment, for better or worse, USE flags do get the job done, and I'd hate
to be without either them or an at least equally (if not more) powerful
replacement.
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"
is, second from now) meeting.
So that would be a yes, but I considered that presupposed. =:^)
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's a possible argument for making that...
OpenRC libvirt users:
But arguably it's fine as-is. I doubt I'd miss the libvirt just reading
it, and only saw it here because I was /trying/ to be picky! =:^)
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"Every nonfree prog
gtk and qt did at their level traditionally.
The question then remains whether ncurses, etc, should be treated as a
gui. Maybe make mention of that one way or the other in the policy as
well.
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and
, as
others have argued and I agree, gentoo and the gentoo/gtk project
shouldn't stand in the way.
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, if
they can, to avoid it being on their system, tho AFAIK with both chromium
and firefox being gtk2 at this point, that's a bit more difficult.
Unfortunately, gentoo/gtk's attitude makes this much more difficult than
it should be.
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vailable, removing gnome as a choice for those who wish to go that way
would be antithetical to that ideal as well, so there you have it.)
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ho of course centralized has its own problems, including tracking and
privacy implications.)
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or by becoming irrelevant.
With mentions of gtk3 based firefox now in distros and that being my
trigger of record, I was starting to worry about pan on gtk3. But if
firefox still requires gtk2 at its core, the trigger doesn't look to have
actually been pulled, after all. That really /does/
/am/ involved with upstream there, I'm
concerned about gtk, but am not close enough to the gentoo/gtk team to
know the status there, thus the questions.
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malc posted on Tue, 08 Sep 2015 15:35:03 +0100 as excerpted:
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 4:30 AM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> The above has me somewhat concerned. Any time an individual has to
>> make excuses for something as ultimately critical to an orga
inevitable overwork and burnout
such a situation unfortunately tends to lead to?
IOW, is there something the council or foundation needs to do proactively
here to ease a pressure point before something blows and it's reactive,
or are there human backups in place and tested/ready-if-needed just as
sted patterns are from 2011 or earlier, when the
git-2.eclass experience proved its name a confusing mistake and
effectively catalyzed the standardization around the -rN pattern that
was apparently (based on the above dates) first used with qt4-r2.eclass
in 2009.
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git log just as I've
been following my git-based overlays and live-packages logs for years
now. Individual commit resolution logs, stats, and if it looks
interesting, the actual diffs, are *so* much nicer and more detailed than
changelogs. =:^)
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I find and file a bug. I've never
used gentoo kernel packages, for instance, having learned to build my own
back on mandrake, and simply adjusted as necessary when I switched to
gentoo. All my kernel bug reports have thus been upstream, during the rc
cycle before upstream release, with al
ely it falls to the QA and tree-cleaners teams, which /are/ still
active, do do it. And if they're going to do it, in the absence of a
working games team despite asking for volunteers multiple times, it's
reasonable to expect they'll remake it in their own image, to some
degree, w
't tend to be somewhere down
below the radar in the don't-care stack, like libs and toolkits, and if
people end up with a non-functional game package because they
specifically disabled both server and client, so be it.
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xplained it better than I. =:^)
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gnore listing for
/usr/portage/local and /usr/portage/distfiles, etc, makes sense, since
that's inside the default tree location. But /opt and /usr/local/portage
aren't inside that default location and are thus about as apropos to that
as the price of tea on Mars, aren't they?
gestion would be easier.
But it's still a creative use of bisect I hadn't thought of before, even
if bisect isn't the most efficient method to that end. Which means I know
a bit more about bisect than I did. =:^)
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"Every no
hen they were both still in the overlay, so I've long since
worked out the biggest such problems here. I didn't complain as it's
simply part of both trying things that far ahead and specifying that I
/want/ the choice and will deal with the consequences of such things by
setting
vely been the gui USE flag (with curses as a
semi-gui USE flag)?
With wayland coming along, what will be the effect, since we'll
effectively have two separate GUIs, then, instead of X being the de facto
gui USE flag? Of course X remains the default for now, but for how long?
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t netbook: Now gone and not yet replaced, but I intend to get
another, tho amd64 this time so I can mostly build once for both, one for
three if I setup an amd64-based router as I intend to as well, and
hopefully avoid the year-plus update period issue as I can just binpkg-
update after the fi
Ryan Hill posted on Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:17:30 -0600 as excerpted:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:25:58 + (UTC)
> Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>> What about:
>>
>> * bug number in summary strongly recommended
>
> Making the bug number in the summary mand
Gordon Pettey posted on Mon, 10 Aug 2015 17:57:56 -0500 as excerpted:
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> ** summary bug number standardized to GB#xx or #xx or similar,
>> short enough for summary, easily identified.
U in URL is universal, unambiguously identifies reference for those
unfamiliar with summary shorthand.
** Multiple allowed, for multiple gentoo bugs or to identify upstream
bugs (using FDO-Bug: or similar) as well.
That seems a reasonable compromise, given people pulling both ways
in-thread.
Johannes Huber posted on Sat, 08 Aug 2015 13:28:08 +0200 as excerpted:
> Title: Nepomuk removal
Looks good here, and the title's nice and short too. =:^)
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*** WARNING *** or similar.
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deed need logic in the individual mounts to see if
they're already mounted, but a robust system will need that in any case,
because there's simply too many reasons, including manual mounting, that
they're already mounted.
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&qu
keep it, but will have a nice comment listing
exactly what directories they use, so users who want to setup individual
mount deps will know exactly what mount deps they need, depending on
their system-unique mountpoint setup.
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at has been at least the norm, not
the exception, since at least shortly after initr* was introduced, and
possibly since /etc itself was introduced to Unix, pre-Linux. It has
certainly been that way since I got into Linux at the turn of the century.
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it that couldn't handle python3 yet, but now only one, app-
text/asciidoc.
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ling these
things automatically in most cases and making it very simple to add
explicit mount deps where systemd's automatic handling fails, so other
init systems must either match that expectancy now too, or fall further
behind. The expectations have changed, and forcing the admin to jump
thr
dding a digit. The atypically large jump seems to signify a broken
API well enough.
So what about jumping from 0.17 to 0.100, or possibly to 0.80 or 0.90, if
you intend to jump to 1.0 reasonably soon, since x.8y and x.9y are
reasonably often used for betas and rcs, respectively.
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be installed as /usr/lib/systemd/system/*.mount, while admin-
created units should be created as /etc/systemd/system/*.mount.
[4] Mounts designed for admin control: as opposed to automated mounts
like the one mentioned in [2], that aren't intended for admin control,
with some of them part of the systemd API and thus with limited override
ability even via the usual /etc/systemd/system/ override location,
according to the manpage.
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od hands. =:^) And I still care about it as even if I'm
subsumed, I think it's important that there continues to be *some*
alternative to systemd, for much the same reason I make it a practice to
note the location of fire extinguishers and exits when I'm traveling -- I
want th
I've pointed out to other users in the past,
there's no lost face in simply deciding gentoo isn't right for you at
this point, and that some other distro is a better match. If we can
point them at a gentoo-based distro, they'll at least still be in the
ecosystem, and who kn
pre-made configuration file, to
automate the mass-install end of things. To my knowledge, there's no
existing gentoo-based distro doing that, yet, so it's a hole waiting to
be filled. =:^)
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
ake the same point I made about "first off" above, for the digit
choice. YMMV in that regard, but I personally still prefer the digits.
Then of course there's the question of whether a ")" or "." demarc is
better. As a reader I've absolutely no preference there, but I believe I
favor the ")" in my own writing.)
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
that they're pushing the posting and reviews to the portage-
dev list increases transparency as well, for those non-devs that like to
follow developments on such system- and gentoo-critical packages. =:^)
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"Every nonfree program has a lord,
not
very conducive to remaining happy at one's job over a period of any
significant length, absolutely critical if that job's a volunteer job.
(I'd probably deal with it by scripting it to the extent possible and do
my best to forget about the horrible misuse of perfectly good tool
could change to make things better... at the cost of putting off
the big switch yet again... ultimately indefinitely, letting the perfect
be the enemy of the good, to the benefit of the otherwise generally
agreed to be unacceptable status quo.
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this. Seriously. This switch to git
puts you up with the gentoo greats such as DRobbins, in my book. Because
without it, let's face it, gentoo /was/ slipping ever so slowly into
history, and this really does, I believe, give us a chance to turn that
around.
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
M's sources tree.
For portage that's $DISTDIR (/usr/portage/distfiles by default). The
above sources installation would thus be to ${DISTDIR}/go/${PN}-${SLOT},
using a path similar to that used by the various live-build eclasses,
git-r3, etc.
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