On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 01:33:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > If I don't have £100 to spare, it's probably because I've already
> > spent it on shiny for me :)
> You don't have an 'undred quid to buy shiny for your missus?
Well, I buy lady-shiny for her, but that's completely different.
> And
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 23:23:51 +
Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:11:58 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
> > > > Why not connect that TV? ;)
> > >
> > > Because the hardware to do so would cost around £100, USB sticks
> > > cost rather less :P
> >
> > The hardware is more shi
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:11:58 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > Why not connect that TV? ;)
> >
> > Because the hardware to do so would cost around £100, USB sticks cost
> > rather less :P
>
> The hardware is more shiny than the USB stick.
>
> Go on, do it. You know you want to.
If I had
On March 17, 2012 at 10:20 AM Alan McKinnon
wrote:
> Android != Linux (in context of userspace)
>
> To get a phone shipped with a running Linux (in the usual definition of
> Linux, not Richard Stallman's) you need that Nokia one that will never
> again see the light of day.
>
> Or root your So
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:27:02 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On March 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Alan, the "vast majority" of Linux users right now are phone users.
> >
> >> At l
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:33:55 +
Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > > I also have a rule on a headless media server to run a script that
> > > mounts a USB stick, copies files to it, unmounts it and lets me
> > > know when it is done. I can mark files for copying at any time
> > > and my wife can just pl
Stroller writes:
> Ok, so my system has 2 network cards. Maybe I only use one of them, or
> maybe they need to be physically connected in a certain way (one to
> LAN, the other WAN).
In this particular case, it is pity that it is not more deterministic in
the first place. When installing a new s
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> wrote:
>
>
>> Alan, the "vast majority" of Linux users right now are phone users.
>
>> At least, that's how I see it.
>
>> Again, think about phones. And tablets. And TVs. And
>>
On March 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
wrote:
> Alan, the "vast majority" of Linux users right now are phone users.
> At least, that's how I see it.
> Again, think about phones. And tablets. And TVs. And
> [insert-here-cool-gadgets-from-the-future].
> Right now Linux runs in my
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:44:03 +0100, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
> > This is for running programs from the computer against the device, not
> > autorunning programs on the device - such as initialising USB
> > modems.
>
> How long till autorunning programs becomes "the next great thing" on
> the desk
On Friday, March 16, 2012 08:46:05 AM Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:13:46 +0100, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
> > Auto-starting programs when a device is added. Great, when are we
> > getting "autostart" support for CDs and USB-keys and under which
> > user-account will these be executed?
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:13:46 +0100, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
> Auto-starting programs when a device is added. Great, when are we
> getting "autostart" support for CDs and USB-keys and under which
> user-account will these be executed?
This is for running programs from the computer against the devi
On Wednesday, March 14, 2012 10:59:30 PM Pandu Poluan wrote:
> On Mar 14, 2012 10:30 PM, "Michael Mol" wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Tanstaafl
> wrote:
> > > Or asked another way -
> > >
> > > Why is LVM2 incapable od using mdev?
>
> Alan has explained that LVM2 actually is able
On Wednesday, March 14, 2012 03:41:01 PM Michael Mol wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés
wrote:
> > Again, read about devfs. Tighly coupling is the path the developers
> > (in general) are taking. I agree with them.
>
> I remember devfs. Never wound up using it, myse
Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
>
> [ huge snip ]
>
>> Each time, you've acted as though the new stance is what you've been
>> arguing from all along, but because you haven't communicated that,
>> it's impossible to reasonably discuss specifics in
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 05:56:34PM +, Stroller wrote
> I'm assuming, then, that you're happy opening a terminal and typing
> `mkdir /mnt/diskname` and mounting the device every time you plug a
> new disk in? Wouldn't it just be nice to plug in your USB devices -
> hard-drives and flash drives
On 2012-03-14 20:45, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> Actually, a Lego brick is a good analogy for mdev (in its current
> state). It's a beautiful toy; but again, nobody has pointed out how to
> make it work with bluetooth devices, for example. From Walt's mail
> (his words, not mine):
You're complet
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 03:16:20PM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote
> There's a difference between "needed by portage" and "doesn't work under
> mdev". As I say, it will all be moot if the evdev driver won't work
> under mdev.
I don't have x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev installed and my desktops
work
From: Pandu Poluan [mailto:pa...@poluan.info]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 12:13 PM
> BUT, in the same message, it is stated that Xorg *can* be compiled to *not*
> try to communicate with udev.
> I suspect a similar situation with Gnome.
IIRC, GNOME only needs udev for auto-mount support. gv
From: Alan Mackenzie [mailto:a...@muc.de]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:04 PM
> Huh? What's that to do with udev? You're talking at far too high a level
of
> abstraction. The new hardware will "just work" if there are the correct
> drivers built in. That's as true of udev as it is of mdev
On 2012-03-14 19:45, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> BIOS is going the way of the dodo too, but that's besides the point.
> I'm actually quite happy with the Linux bluetooth stack (which, if I'm
> not mistaken, is used by Android). I have several bluetooth thingies,
> they all work great.
Sorry, but
Good evening, Stroller.
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 05:56:34PM +, Stroller wrote:
> On 13 March 2012, at 22:20, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > …
> >> udev does a *lot* more than that, for example the persistent naming of
> >> network interfaces. More significantly, it can run programs based on
> >> d
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
[ huge snip ]
> Each time, you've acted as though the new stance is what you've been
> arguing from all along, but because you haven't communicated that,
> it's impossible to reasonably discuss specifics in practicality. I
> think I'm done with
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
> On Mar 15, 2012 1:22 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
>> >
>> > On Mar 15, 2012 12:25 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés"
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >
>> > >8 snip
>> >
>> >>
>> >> That if
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
Hello, Canek
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 06
On Mar 15, 2012 2:24 AM, "Pandu Poluan" wrote:
>
> Here's a prototype script to ensure that certain NICs will always end up
the way you want it named:
>
#!/bin/sh
mac="$( cat /proc/net/arp | awk -V dev="$MDEV" 'NR==1{next} $6==dev {print
$4}')"
name="$(cat /etc/nic.conf | awk -V mac="$mac" '$1==m
On Mar 15, 2012 1:22 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
> >
> > On Mar 15, 2012 12:25 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés"
wrote:
> >>
> >
> > >8 snip
> >
> >>
> >> That if I connect a USB wi-fi dongle, and it appears with the name
> >> wlan23, I
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> Hello, Canek
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 06:07:32PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
> On Mar 15, 2012 12:25 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>>
>
> >8 snip
>
>>
>> That if I connect a USB wi-fi dongle, and it appears with the name
>> wlan23, I want *every* time that dongle to have the wlan23 name .Good
>> luck doing th
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> Hello, Canek
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 06:07:32PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>
>>> > The new hardware wil
On Mar 15, 2012 12:25 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>
>8 snip
>
> That if I connect a USB wi-fi dongle, and it appears with the name
> wlan23, I want *every* time that dongle to have the wlan23 name .Good
> luck doing that without a database.
>
That could -- should -- be handled by a sc
On 13 March 2012, at 22:20, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> …
>> udev does a *lot* more than that, for example the persistent naming of
>> network interfaces. More significantly, it can run programs based on
>> device rules.
>
> This is where I start getting unhappy. Is there any need for this
> blurri
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Canek
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 06:07:32PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>
>> > The new hardware will "just work" if there are the correct drivers
>> >built in. That's
On Mar 14, 2012 10:20 PM, "Alan Mackenzie" wrote:
>
>8 snippage
>
> Walter is, I believe, mistaken here. I can mount and use my LVM2
> partitions. Gnome looks like it comes up OK, but that could be moot,
> since right now I haven't got keyboard/mouse drivers under the X server.
>
This po
On Mar 14, 2012 10:30 PM, "Michael Mol" wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Tanstaafl
wrote:
> > On 2012-03-13 8:07 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> >>
> >> You want it simple? Tha'ts fine, it is possible. It's just that it
> >> will not solve the general problem, just a very specific s
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 2012-03-13 8:07 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> You want it simple? Tha'ts fine, it is possible. It's just that it
>> will not solve the general problem, just a very specific subset of it.
>> Just as mdev is doing; Walt just posted an e
On 2012-03-13 8:07 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
You want it simple? Tha'ts fine, it is possible. It's just that it
will not solve the general problem, just a very specific subset of it.
Just as mdev is doing; Walt just posted an email explaining that if
you use GNOME, KDE, XFCE, or LVM2, mdev
Hello, Canek
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 06:07:32PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > The new hardware will "just work" if there are the correct drivers
> >built in. That's as true of udev as it is of mdev as it is of the old
> >static /d
On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:43:54 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > udev is not a device node system, it is a device manager. Requiring
> > drivers to handle it gets us into the same mess as Windows, where each
> > driver has to implement the same functionality itself. If a new modem
> > is released wit
On Mar 14, 2012 7:10 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>
>8 snippage
> So, you need something to handle device files on /dev, so you don't
> need every possible device file for every possible piece of hardware.
> But then you want to handle the same device with the same device name,
> so you
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 04:38:08PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> > Hello, Neil.
>
>> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:33:30PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:03:50PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:20:19 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > > udev does a *lot* more than that, for example the persistent naming of
> > > network interfaces. More significantly, it can run programs based on
> > > device rules.
>
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 04:38:08PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > Hello, Neil.
> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:33:30PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:07:37 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> >> > But I really mea
On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:20:19 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > udev does a *lot* more than that, for example the persistent naming of
> > network interfaces. More significantly, it can run programs based on
> > device rules.
>
> This is where I start getting unhappy. Is there any need for this
>
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 13, 2012 at 5:49 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> wrote:
>
>
>> Just what I was saying: I said (right there) "the probability of it
>> needing udev (directly or indirectly) will increase." I did not say it
>> would *need* udev for
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Neil.
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:33:30PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:07:37 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>
>> > But I really meant what functionality udev has that mdev lacks. For
>> > example, mdev this
On March 13, 2012 at 5:49 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
wrote:
> Just what I was saying: I said (right there) "the probability of it
> needing udev (directly or indirectly) will increase." I did not say it
> would *need* udev for sure; just that the probability of it needing
> udev would increase.
Hello, Neil.
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:33:30PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:07:37 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > But I really meant what functionality udev has that mdev lacks. For
> > example, mdev this morning recognised my USB stick being inserted, and
> > created /
On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:35:05 -0400 (EDT)
"Bruce Hill, Jr." wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 13, 2012 at 5:22 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> > > wrote:
>
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 13, 2012 at 5:22 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> "Fring
On March 13, 2012 at 5:22 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but
> >> the mom
On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:07:37 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> But I really meant what functionality udev has that mdev lacks. For
> example, mdev this morning recognised my USB stick being inserted, and
> created /dev/sdc for it.
udev does a *lot* more than that, for example the persistent naming
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but
>> the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become
>> "maistream", the probabilit
Hello, Canek,
I thought you'd be replying to me here. :-)
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 02:27:25PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > Hello, Walter,
> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 03:00:52PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> >> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012
On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
wrote:
>
> "Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but
> the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become
> "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or
> indirectly) will increase.
>
> I'm
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Walter,
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 03:00:52PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 01:05:34PM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote
>
>> > I also did "2> {system,world}.err". system.err was empty. I've included
>> > world.err
Hello, Walter,
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 03:00:52PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 01:05:34PM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote
> > I also did "2> {system,world}.err". system.err was empty. I've included
> > world.err in the enclosed tarball.
> From your error listing, it looks
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 01:05:34PM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote
> I also did "2> {system,world}.err". system.err was empty. I've included
> world.err in the enclosed tarball.
From your error listing, it looks like lvm2, kde, and gnome (including
the XFCE subset) require udev. Ouch.
--
Walte
Hi, Walter.
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 03:33:06AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 09:24:32AM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote
> Once you're back to your old setup, can you do me a favour? Please do
> the following...
> 1) Add the line...
> sys-fs/udev
> to /etc/portage/package.m
Hello, Walter.
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 03:14:55AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 09:24:32AM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote
> Sorry, mdev is not for you, it looks like udev is a mandatory
> dependancy for lvm2. I tried "emerge -pv lvm2" and it came back with...
> waltdnes@d53
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 09:24:32AM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote
Once you're back to your old setup, can you do me a favour? Please do
the following...
1) Add the line...
sys-fs/udev
to /etc/portage/package.mask.
2) Run the 2 commands
emerge -pv system > system.txt
emerge -pv world > world.t
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 09:24:32AM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote
> Help would be appreciated.
Sorry, mdev is not for you, it looks like udev is a mandatory
dependancy for lvm2. I tried "emerge -pv lvm2" and it came back with...
waltdnes@d530 ~ $ emerge -pv lvm2
These are the packages that woul
On 2012-03-12 10:24, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> #!/bin/busybox ash
>> mount -t proc proc /proc
>> mount -t sysfs sysfs /sys
>> exec /sbin/init
> How do I know whether my /sbin/linuxrc actually ran? Maybe, I mean how
> can I be sure my "append = "init=/sbin/linuxrc"" actually worked?
Well, you can
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 05:09:12AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> This revision makes 2 changes...
> A) The removal of udev is now standard instead of optional. udev-181
> and higher will be pulling in kmod, and anything else that kmod depends
> on. Removing udev will avoid unnecessary cruft on y
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