Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable?
Would it be too much of a compromise to just drop the P at the end? IMO it is too much of a compromise to even consider a name change. Discussions like these server only one purpose - artificial creation of a previously non-existant problem to support the position of the one who started the discussion. Michael -- GMX ProMail mit bestem Virenschutz http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail +++ Empfehlung der Redaktion +++ Internet Professionell 10/04 +++ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable?
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Robert L Krawitz wrote: Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:00:24 -0500 From: Robert L Krawitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? From: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:05:46 +0100 Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to ask why reject such patches? Because IMO the name is important. If we allow the name to be changed easily, It would also make it way too easy for anyone who wants to make some quick money out of The GIMP. We must not allow people to change the name by means of a simple configure option and let them benefit from our hard work. Changing the source code and documentation is the easiest part of it. The hard part is changing the web site, references all over the net, etc. I speak here from ongoing experience -- the Gimp-Print project is in the process of renaming to Gutenprint. I am not asking the GNU Image Manipulation Program to change name. I was asking why patches that might make it possible/easier for others to change the project name and branding would be rejected. I am aware of some the difficulties that would occur if the GIMP were to change name tomorrow which is why I want to make it clear that wasn't what I was asking. It is also extremely unlikel for a name change to ever happen which is why I was asking a subtley different question. I have accepted Svens answers on this matter and do not intend to push it further. I dont find the name amusing or clever but it does not get in the way of my image editing. Changing the source took Roger Leigh perhaps a week or so, but the web site, hosting, etc. are still moving along very slowly, and we have a lot of work to do. While going through this process did Roger Leigh replace the name or did he abstract the name so that if some one was ever forced to change it again it could be done more easily? (the latter would of course take much more time) This is probably the primary reason that 5.0 wasn't released perhaps a month ago. I'm surprised the rebranding was not done seperately from the release, but that is probably only something that is obvious in hindsight. I would guess you changed the name of gimp-print to guten-print first and foremost because the project is seperate from the gimp but presumably you were aware that a small minority find the term gimp somewhat inappropriate and that it might be easier to market a different name. I wish Guten-Print the best of success with the new name and I encourage you to make as much publicity out of it as you can. (Still haven't seen any stories on it yet, just mailing list posts but I suppose I'll hear a lot more about it when 5.0 is released.) If a project as big as Mozilla Firefox allows it name to be changed, why would it be an issue for the gimp? For Firefox having the name configurable is part of the business plan. I can't find any such note in the GIMP's business plan. Heck, I can't even find the plan. Firefox had a little legal problem on their hands, and didn't have much choice. Firefox started off as a fork of Mozilla, was codenamed mb2, then Pheonix then Firebird. I really doubt the clean abstraction of the name had anything to do with the legalities but as Sven suggested much more do to with the business plans of Netscape and the Mozilla foundation to allow rebranded versions of their browser. Better a hundred branches than one fork. The project name could be have been changed crudely using grep and other tools or by messing around with the translations (something I may still look into) but it is another matter entirely to improve the abstraction of the code and make it so that the name is configurable and need only be changed in a few key places. The Mozilla foundation does want to encourage commercialisation of their product and the GIMP doesn't, fair enough. Sincerely Alan Horkan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] API docs for GIMP 2.2
Hi, I've updated the API docs on http://developer.gimp.org/api/2.0/ in preparation of the 2.2.0 release. I will be doing another update when the release is finally out. If someone wants to look over the docs and fix/improve them, that would be very much appreciated. The focus should be on the libgimp* documentation. The API docs for the core (Gimp Application) are of minor importance. One thing that I would really love to see being added is a guide that shows people how to update their plug-ins for GIMP 2.2. It should mention how to use GIMP_DISABLE_DEPRECATED in order to identify use of deprecated API. Some infos on updates for GTK+-2.4 would probably be helpful as well (links to the GTK+ reference manual would probably be sufficient). Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)]
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, David [iso-8859-15] Gómez wrote: Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:19:26 +0100 From: David [iso-8859-15] Gómez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)] Hi Alan, I don't think it is a good idea to change the project name. So you kind of answered to yourself... No that is the answer to quite a different question. I asked why not accept patches that make it easier to change the name. It is a good sign that the gimp has improved so much that people are only left with the name to complain about :) I don't complain about the name. I never claimed you did. I think it would be a fair compromise to accept patches that make it easier for those who would like to configure the name. That a non-sense claim. I think that people that get offended by a name have deeper problems. You can say it is trivial or silly but you cannot deny that it happens to bother a small minority of people. I do not know if you are a native English speaker but the term gimp is has a very similar meaning to cripple. If you look at the bug report I point to some comments where people other than me say they have encountered difficulties, notably the embarassment of explaining the name really was the gimp to a person in a wheelchair and that the user was not mocking them. And they should worry first about them instead of changing everybody's minds to their way of thinking. I say again that I was not asking to change what everbody else calls the GNU Image Manipulation Program but I was asking why it would not be acceptable to make it easier for other to change the name (and Sven has explained the reasons for it). I answer to you, because i work on a window manager with a name that could be considered offensive by spanish-speakers with similar What is the name? ideas to the users who claim that gimp should change its name. But we didn't intend to offense anyone when we choosed the name, it was just a joke. I'm not a big fan of funny project names because different people find completely different things funny, and I much prefer names that give some idea of what a project does (which the long form GNU Image Manipulation Program does serve that purpose). But this is all beside the point, I'm not trying to force the majority to change their ways but I wanted to make it easier for the small minority to help themselves. People who complained about the name understood this when we explained it to them. If a project as big as Mozilla Firefox allows it name to be changed, why would it be an issue for the gimp? There was another project called Firebird, so there was a good reason to change it. As Sven explained and I pointed out in other posts the fact that Mozilla and Firefox can be so easily rebranded has far more to do with Netscape than it does any legal issues. Why require people to fork or maintain their own patchsets for the sake of a little extra configurability. I wouldn't call it configurability. What would you call it then? - Alan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 07:48:57PM +, Alan Horkan wrote: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Carol Spears wrote: i am waiting to hear what the panel decided for the winning splash. Any word on this yet? It was decided that it was very important to get some input from artists namely Jimmac Tigert and drc. okay, so what was the reason to have a panel then? also, as fond as i am of these three, jimmac is quite busy making icons, tigert is doing whatever tigert does. drc is cool and always around so i dont think you are waiting for him. jimmac and tigerts last gimp tutorials were written years ago by now. i guess that being gainfully employed means you are an artist or something. a lot of things stink about this. i ask because someone has asked to borrow the script i used to make the splash with -- i would like to use it one last time before sharing it -- on this panels decision. is there a decision or an eta of when the decision will be passed down? We all hope to reach a decision real soon now. looks like the best thing would have been to skip the panel carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
hi, i am waiting to hear what the panel decided for the winning splash. Any word on this yet? i ask because someone has asked to borrow the script i used to make the splash with -- i would like to use it one last time before sharing it -- on this panels decision. is there a decision or an eta of when the decision will be passed down? carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] scheduling name change to boondoggle
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:59:08 -0800, Carol Spears [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, lets schedule the changing of the name TheGIMP to Boondoggle right after it is announced that you can change the name of photoshop to something less hyped and media driven also. Oh, I'm sure with a hex editor and a resource editor you can change the name of Photoshop already! :) Rockwalrus ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)]
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 06:11:39PM +, Alan Horkan wrote: I do not know if you are a native English speaker but the term gimp is has a very similar meaning to cripple. If you look at the bug report I point to some comments where people other than me say they have encountered difficulties, notably the embarassment of explaining the name really was the gimp to a person in a wheelchair and that the user was not mocking them. i think (with my experience with this community) that this person needs to look at how he/she is treating the person in the wheelchair. i dont think (in my experience) that a defensive response like this can be blamed solely on the name of a piece of software. i would like to know more about the people involved in this story. there must have been some mocking before hand or the person has recently acquired the need for the wheelchair. a name change will not fix either situation. I'm not a big fan of funny project names because different people find completely different things funny, and I much prefer names that give some idea of what a project does (which the long form GNU Image Manipulation Program does serve that purpose). your activity with this project seems to say that this is not an accurate statement. carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable?
Hi Alan, didn't you say you would stop arguing on this stupid subject? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Carol Spears wrote: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:06:21 -0800 From: Carol Spears [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED], GIMPDev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 07:48:57PM +, Alan Horkan wrote: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Carol Spears wrote: i am waiting to hear what the panel decided for the winning splash. Any word on this yet? It was decided that it was very important to get some input from artists namely Jimmac Tigert and drc. okay, so what was the reason to have a panel then? they were asked for comments on a shortlist of choices. they were not asked to make the final decision. looks like the best thing would have been to skip the panel It is far too late now and the time for such comments has long passed, but I'm sure lessons have been learned and future competitions will be run differently. - Alan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 07:48:57PM +, Alan Horkan wrote: It was decided that it was very important to get some input from artists namely Jimmac Tigert and drc. or maybe you await jimmacs approval since all of the splash images that used his template now have his copyright on it? there was such a commotion about this panel on this list and it looked to me as if it were being thoughtfully put together. maybe a better approach would be to have anyone who was not certain of their pick remove themselves from the panel. it took only a matter of days to amass more than 600 splashes. it should take such an interested group of people as this panel not so much time to make a decision. make a decision. was their any discussion here of the panel needing the approval of these artists? the panel was put together to make a recommendation to the developers. you need additional handholding? was anyone interested in being on this panel who can make a decision on their own? carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
Hi Carol, Carol Spears wrote: make a decision. was their any discussion here of the panel needing the approval of these artists? the panel was put together to make a recommendation to the developers. you need additional handholding? was anyone interested in being on this panel who can make a decision on their own? I appreciate that you would like to see a winner quickly. And I know that you think that such a decision should be easy to make. If there were one person choosing the winner, it would have been done last Monday. However, the panel are conscious of a responsibility they have - they are picking the splash screen that will be on the GIMP for at least 6 months, and perhaps as long as 3 years (hopefully not, but that's how long tigert's splash was on a stable GIMP). If the panellists want to ask for the opinion of outside people, or give weight to mukund's page, so be it. When their decision is made, it will be final. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CV: http://dneary.free.fr/CV/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] a GEGL integration strategy
The suggestion of starting the integration process of GEGL into gimp with the paint tools came up on irc today. I have put some thought into the order such a conversion might happen in, blend pencil paintbrush eraser dodge blur clone smudge airbrush ink The order lists what I think is increasing level of complexity in usage of gegl for the tasks, such a multipurpose gegl tool can probably be implemented and coexist with the rest of the tools while the migration happens. This will not give us high bit depth yet though. the list with icons can be found at: http://pippin.gimp.org/gegl_paint_tools/ I might add more ponderings to that page later. /pippin -- Software patents hinder progress | http://swpat.ffii.org/ Web : http://pippin.gimp.org/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Not quiting just changing status
Hello GIMP developers/users, I have had some time to think now and it seems that maybe I should not be incharge of the website. The reasons for this is as follows: * My work takes a lot of my time, sometimes I am not home until 22:00 swedish time. This makes it hard to actually sit and do something at the computer after work hours. * I have been away for to long and am not really taking care of things enough to make the site grow as it should by this time. Yes, I made promises and have tried to keep them, but I never thought that my work would be like this. * I have to many other things going on around me right now that takes up my time and I do not want that to affect the websites development. Instead I would like the site to grow, and for that reason there needs to be a stronger person than me and more flexible that can handle the site. I am not reassigning right now. And I am not telling you that I won't be able to help with the site, instead I would like to be a contributer to the website and help at the areas that I know. But having the website as the responsibility is not really good for me or for the users. To be really honest...I don't think I am technical enough for this kind of responsibility. I will keep looking at things until a final decision has been made about who can take over this task. I'm sorry that this should happen right now. But like I said...I can help...but not be responsible. Best regards, -- Niklas Mattisson ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:52:03PM +0100, David Neary wrote: Hi Carol, Carol Spears wrote: make a decision. was their any discussion here of the panel needing the approval of these artists? the panel was put together to make a recommendation to the developers. you need additional handholding? was anyone interested in being on this panel who can make a decision on their own? I appreciate that you would like to see a winner quickly. And I know that you think that such a decision should be easy to make. If there were one person choosing the winner, it would have been done last Monday. However, the panel are conscious of a responsibility they have - they are picking the splash screen that will be on the GIMP for at least 6 months, and perhaps as long as 3 years (hopefully not, but that's how long tigert's splash was on a stable GIMP). If the panellists want to ask for the opinion of outside people, or give weight to mukund's page, so be it. When their decision is made, it will be final. a final recommendation. just spit it out. ask adam. adam is an artist and has been involved with gimp since before you, me, tigert and jimmac -- i dunno about drc. if they did not want to work as a group, for what reason was it formed? if they were afraid of peoples opinion of their opinion, why did they want to be on the panel. this is crap. this is pathetic like this stupid election we just had here in the states. is the recommendation from this panel to be have tigert i approve this to make it worth something? is there anyone on the panel whose opinion does not count? carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Not quiting just changing status
Hi Niklas, Niklas Mattisson wrote: I have had some time to think now and it seems that maybe I should not be incharge of the website. snip Thanks for offering what little time you had, at a time where it wasn't a job a lot of people wanted to have. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CV: http://dneary.free.fr/CV/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable?
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Sven Neumann wrote: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:26:37 +0100 From: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? Hi Alan, didn't you say you would stop arguing on this stupid subject? That was unnecessary. What kind of reaction to you expect to a comment like that? I thought I also said I wanted to reply to the other messages first (but I perhaps I didn't). I did not want to ignore the posts people had made, as they might consider it rude. I had planned to add your answers to the User FAQ which I thought existed in Wiki, but according to the Developer FAQ there is no User FAQ. Thank you again for taking the time to explain your reasons. Now I'm really finished and wont make any further comments on the subject. - Alan. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable?
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:05:46 +0100 From: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? Hi, Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to ask why reject such patches? Because IMO the name is important. If we allow the name to be changed easily, our users will not any longer know what software they are using. Contributors will be lost because they will look for the Foo project instead of the GIMP project. (Sven I know you understand what I'm saying but other do not seem to get exactly what I'm asking) To make myself as clear as I possibly can I'm not asking for the project to change its name but to accept patches that allow others to rebrand the gimp if they want. It would also make it way too easy for anyone who wants to make some quick money out of The GIMP. This has happened already, people already package and sell the gimp and their failure to provide adequate support has hurt the gimp brand. If it was easier for them to rebrand it would be reasonable to expect them to do so and make it clear that their product is not officially endorsed by the gimp project. (I'm referring to this widely reported incident of a Mac user who paid for the gimp and got no service from the vendors and as a result was excessively critical. http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/wpd0504review.htm ) We must not allow people to change the name by means of a simple configure option and let them benefit from our hard work. First of all thank you for providing a clear explanation. If the issue comes up again users wont be left in any doubt of how things stand and I can direct them to your comments. I will add this to the wiki, as I think it has been asked enough to be considered a Frequently Asked Question. Free Software already allows them to do exactly the kinds of changes you would rather not allow people to make. Despite the fact that it it might happen anyway I can understand that you dont want to make it easy. You are in the lead developer in charge and can do anything you want and I certainly wouldn't expect you to make the changes but I'd feel a lot better if you gave a good reason to reject patches that would make it easier to get more people to use Free Software? I seriously doubt that the name is effectively keeping GIMP from being used. I am all happy to ignore the very few people who are so narrow-minded as to having a problem with the name. I'd rather see more people use Free Software. I'm disappointed that people here do not seem to understand or accept that some people (and it seems only to be a small minority of native English speakers in particular) have issue with the name and that their concersns are being dismissed as as some sort of narrow minded political correctness. I dont believe the complaints will go away but as you are happy to ignore the complaints I'll accept that and when I've responded to the messages in this thread I will try not to bring the issue up again. If a project as big as Mozilla Firefox allows it name to be changed, why would it be an issue for the gimp? For Firefox having the name configurable is part of the business plan. I can't find any such note in the GIMP's business plan. Heck, I can't even find the plan. I think it is a shame there is not a clear plan for the gimp and I think it would be a very good thing if there was a plan and efforts made to commericalise the gimp to allow developers like yourself (or others) to get better rewarded for the work you do improving the gimp. Why require people to fork or maintain their own patchsets for the sake of a little extra configurability. So that it becomes harder for them to do this. And if they really think it's worth all the hassle, well, then they can do it. I suppose it is reasonable to draw the line somewhere. Thanks again for making a clear decision and explaining it. Sincerely Alan Horkan. http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, Joseph Heled [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Selecting a splash is a daunting task. However, the weight may seem less assuming the following tidbits are made readily accessible (say via a Tip of the day) - How one can replace the default splash with a personal one. It's in the gimp man-page. - How one can use multiple splashes. We should probably add this information. I probably was not clear enough. I think in the man page might not be enough here. How about some mention of this in the first time setup? I am not saying it is a big deal. If you think it is pointless than forget it. I was just hoping there is an easy way to alleviate some pressure from the selection committee. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
Hi Carol. [nothing of much interest on this mail for people who are ok with the panel] On Monday 13 December 2004 22:25, Carol Spears wrote: On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:52:03PM +0100, David Neary wrote: Hi Carol, Carol Spears wrote: make a decision. was their any discussion here of the panel needing the approval of these artists? the panel was put together to make a recommendation to the developers. you need additional handholding? was anyone interested in being on this panel who can make a decision on their own? Can you please calm down? I am in the panel. The other four people in the panel are all part of the comunity formed by Gimp development in all ways it stays in touch - that is #gimp, bugzilla, and here at least. There were 672 splashes from which to pick one. You did run your script in there, and after some tens of seconds, it spilled out a movie, did not it? Each of us took time to appreciate each of the splashes over the last week. I can't speak for the others, but I looked at each of them in full size, in painfull proccess of narrowing down the list of viable splashes..Why painfull? Because most of the entries are, in their own way, very nice at least. The funny ones. The scary ones. So each one in the panel had to create a personal set of criteria to narrow the list, so that the whole panel had a small list upon which to debate. You express concern about the results of a panel. I think it is reasonable for you to perceive that the panel is concerned about this result as well. Otherwise, we'd just spill out the highest ranking among ourselves as the final winner. Instead, we decided that the choices we were left with were quite good, and that diffferent point of views would be apreciated. (...) If the panellists want to ask for the opinion of outside people, or give weight to mukund's page, so be it. When their decision is made, it will be final. a final recommendation. just spit it out. Carol, since it seems to be so easy, why do not yourself give the panel feedback. Which is your choosen one? (NB - this is mostly retorical at this point, as we have a good winner candidate by now - nonetheless I'd like to know your one pick among those 600+ entries) ask adam. adam is an artist and has been involved with gimp since before you, me, tigert and jimmac -- i dunno about drc. Adam is in the panel. if they did not want to work as a group, for what reason was it formed? We want and are working as group. A nice group of persons from different countries with different entries which got a unique chance to learn about each other's inner feelings about art and feelings about The GIMP and its usages as well. I may be speaking for myself, but it is a lifetime experience. if they were afraid of peoples opinion of their opinion, why did they want to be on the panel. How would us know that people would arise questioning the panel before? On a side note, I feel the panel had been set by the Release Manager, and fear no one outside. As far as I am concerned, if the panel would vote for the dullest splash out there, that would be the panel recomendation and no more questions. But how do you feel about questioning any judge about being afraid of other's opinions when you yourself are attacking the panel - and at least on this list, you are the only one doing so. this is crap. this is pathetic like this stupid election we just had here in the states. Ok - I am writting this lenghty reply, because _this_ I found offensive. I agree that a way to select a winner should have been determined before opening up for the contest for the entries. But it was not done. Since the formation of the panel itself was a sugestion on this list, and people got a chance to propose a better, working idea, I am perfectly confortable with the panel. Just because if determined beforehand, it probably would have been the better idea anyway. is the recommendation from this panel to be have tigert i approve this to make it worth something? We feel more confident now we've read Tigert's comments on some of our picks, if that maters. is there anyone on the panel whose opinion does not count? No. It is a five way panel, and everyone is doing their part and getting listened. carol Regards, JS -- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
Hi, Joseph Heled [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Selecting a splash is a daunting task. However, the weight may seem less assuming the following tidbits are made readily accessible (say via a Tip of the day) - How one can replace the default splash with a personal one. It's in the gimp man-page. - How one can use multiple splashes. We should probably add this information. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
Hi, Joseph Heled [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I probably was not clear enough. I think in the man page might not be enough here. How about some mention of this in the first time setup? in the man-page should actually be good enough. After all it also means on the web-site. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 12:49:35AM -0200, Joao S. O. Bueno Calligaris wrote: Hi Carol. [nothing of much interest on this mail for people who are ok with the panel] i am happy with the panel. please accept everything i said to mean you and your opinion means more than anyone you need to bring in to help and that this is a compliment. i simply expect you do to what you set out to do. taking so long. being so careful. futzing around. getting the opinion of people who need to be asked to upgrade their version, i mean really, if tigert still wanted to be involved, dont you think he would? dont you think he would be making tutorials and still helping the developers with gui ideas and stuff like he did years ago but not much recently. i am asking you to have some self respect and just do the damn job. it is more important that this stuff gets done now with everyone sort of into it than later when it is safer but everyone has gone away bored. i am suggesting that the fact that we are all actually doing something is more important that what gets done here. later in this mail you ask me what my choice would be. there is only one that shows off gimp-2.2 and uses a gpled font. forget artistry or showing things off nicely for the suits. the fact that it shows off a recusive portion of the license it tauts is a plus for the dorks who have built it and might build it in the future to enjoy. sorry i am the one who made this splash. if someone else had made it, it would have probably been considered. all this is fine. also, later in this note, you belittle my movie. sure, anyone can do this in a few minutes. the fact that i worked for days on it only means that i have some real problems and cannot get this gimp to work that well. i hope that people take your scripting more seriously than you take mine. please, panel, show some good opinion of your opinion and publish your list or winner or whatever. carol On Monday 13 December 2004 22:25, Carol Spears wrote: On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:52:03PM +0100, David Neary wrote: Hi Carol, Carol Spears wrote: make a decision. was their any discussion here of the panel needing the approval of these artists? the panel was put together to make a recommendation to the developers. you need additional handholding? was anyone interested in being on this panel who can make a decision on their own? Can you please calm down? I am in the panel. The other four people in the panel are all part of the comunity formed by Gimp development in all ways it stays in touch - that is #gimp, bugzilla, and here at least. There were 672 splashes from which to pick one. You did run your script in there, and after some tens of seconds, it spilled out a movie, did not it? Each of us took time to appreciate each of the splashes over the last week. I can't speak for the others, but I looked at each of them in full size, in painfull proccess of narrowing down the list of viable splashes..Why painfull? Because most of the entries are, in their own way, very nice at least. The funny ones. The scary ones. So each one in the panel had to create a personal set of criteria to narrow the list, so that the whole panel had a small list upon which to debate. You express concern about the results of a panel. I think it is reasonable for you to perceive that the panel is concerned about this result as well. Otherwise, we'd just spill out the highest ranking among ourselves as the final winner. Instead, we decided that the choices we were left with were quite good, and that diffferent point of views would be apreciated. (...) If the panellists want to ask for the opinion of outside people, or give weight to mukund's page, so be it. When their decision is made, it will be final. a final recommendation. just spit it out. Carol, since it seems to be so easy, why do not yourself give the panel feedback. Which is your choosen one? (NB - this is mostly retorical at this point, as we have a good winner candidate by now - nonetheless I'd like to know your one pick among those 600+ entries) ask adam. adam is an artist and has been involved with gimp since before you, me, tigert and jimmac -- i dunno about drc. Adam is in the panel. if they did not want to work as a group, for what reason was it formed? We want and are working as group. A nice group of persons from different countries with different entries which got a unique chance to learn about each other's inner feelings about art and feelings about The GIMP and its usages as well. I may be speaking for myself, but it is a lifetime experience. if they were afraid of peoples opinion of their opinion, why did they want to be on the panel. How would us know that people would arise questioning the panel before? On a side note, I feel the panel had been set by the Release Manager, and fear no one outside.
Re: [Gimp-developer] panel and winning splash
] ...I think in the man page might not ] be enough here. How about some mention of this in the first time ] setup? ]in the man-page should actually be good enough. After all it also ]means on the web-site. Then man-page should be conspicuously displayed on the main menu of the web site so it can't be missed verbatum. _-T Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
