Re: [Gimp-developer] A few suggestions forThe Gimp

[Carol Spears]

hello,

i cut a lot of really positive and good comments from this email.  i am
sorry to do that, but the format was difficult for this mail list.  did
you send mail in html format?  maybe the line length was too long.

at any rate, your email included wishing for an image browser based on
the MySQL database.  this is sort of an old url by now, but the original
gimp news person wrote this about that:
http://www.xach.com/aolserver/mysql-to-postgresql.html

i will totally admit that i have no idea how much this applies to your
wishes, but one thing about the original gimp news person; he really
loved linux.

there is another thread on another list right now about the xsane
plug-in.  i mention it here because this might be a very good approach
to get what you want.  and if it is written properly with a good base
software, then all of the different art applications should/might be
able to benefit from it.

the xsane plug-in works this way.  you install xsane and it sees if you
have gimp installed and adds itself to the menu.  there are always
problems with this plug-in but it is dealing with hardware which is not
as simple or predictable as pure software applications.

it is difficult for me to imagine what it is that you want, especially
given the way that photoshop doesn't work on linux.  i tend to refuse to
use wine to get access to apps that do things that already work (often
better) here on linux.  but if you could find clever and ambitious
people who could possibly write this thing that you described and write
it in a way that works with all of the gpl'd applications, we would be
certainly getting somewhere and the total of all of these groups will
probably make the giants beg for mercy, or something like that.  maybe
quiver and die.  or even better, re-define themselves and provide a
better challenge next time around.

it would be a nice project for some new and motivated upstarts!

thanks again for the positive feed back.  microsoft tends to produce a
whine that is so irritating at times that the desire to remove access to
the software becomes very strong!  and that is no way to live.

carol

___
Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

[Gimp-developer] A few suggestions forThe Gimp

[Richard Reddy]

Greetings Developers,
 
 I've been using Photoshop since version 1 of 
"Photostyler".  Before that, I dreamed
of digital images while using an 8086 PC and CGI 
graphics.   Photoshop is a good 
application, but I feel a growing distaste for 
proprietary software.  
 
So, for 2006 my photography business migrates to 
the GNU/Linux box.  I see some
room for improvement--user interface, color 
management, file system navigation.  Let 
me give you a list, in order of importance, of the 
ten things that matter most in photography.
1 image content
2 image content
3 image content
4 image content
5 image content
6 image content
7 image content
8 image content
9 image content
10 other concerns
 
Gimps problems are smaller than Photoshop's, in my 
view.  They are a much smaller concern
than image content.   Really, content 
wins the day, a message I wish to communicate to fellow 
photographers who look for good images in fancy 
cameras, or the latest software releases.  If
we're all doing something together--like creating 
and using image software--don't miss the spirit
of the enterprise by rolling out some elite 
criteria to judge the work of friends.  
 
Digital fine art is an oxymoron.  Want fine 
art?  Try a darkroom!  What really makes digital work
is content (and colors), because it certainly lacks 
dynamic range and resolution (and the beauty
of silver-based papers).  
 
Visual art is all about feeling.  So another 
good question is how do you feel about underwriting 
Adobe?   They employ many nice 
people--and some gifted software engineers, but the company
is just another greedy corporation, charging high 
prices, and hiding the code.  Passing out those
nondisclosure agreements, which now include 
impressions from previous lives and the kitchen sink.
 
I selected Gimp because the whole project feels 
good.   You create software for the same 
reasons I create photographs  So, if Gimp has 
problems, I'll live with them (or participate in solving
problems).   Gimp is really a 
marvelous bit of engineering--the only problem I can see is perhaps the 

team underestimates what it can do.  

 
I do have a few suggestions developers might 
like.  I'm sure you have no shortage of
ideas, and limited consensus, so this is just food 
for thought.  A mutual friend, Richard Stallman, 
said I should run them by you, so here you 
are.
 
1.  A browser just like Photoshop.  No, 
better not.  The browser is junk--very clunky and hungry
for system 
resources.   
 
CS browser is just one of those 
flat-file Microsoft thingies.  Why not incorporate a 
real relational 
database?   So, my suggestion is to 
dramatically improve workflow by developing a MySQL
database companion for Gimp, that allows users to 
search and sort large image databases
like mine (30,000 digital 
images).    Images could be tagged while they are being 
processed,
or batch 
tagged.  
 
As director of photography for North American 
Women's Baseball League (NAWBL), I know 
that searching and sorting images can be 
very time-consuming work.  Using Gimp you could 
automatically transfer image metadata 
to tags.  It would be very useful to do a search 
involving
all the images shot at f/2.8 or 
f/4.0?  All the photos shot with a particular lens.  All the 
photos 
shot at ISO 100, or ISO 
800.  Photos of women who pitch, play for a particular team, have 
a 
batting average over 300, et 
cetera.  A game? All the photos on the same day.   This 
information could quite helpful for batch-processing 
images, as you might want to 
clean noise from high ISO files, sharpen images with narrow depth of field, et cetera.   If you need to consult 
backup files for images lost in a crash, sorting by date is very helpful (speaking from experience).   With 
metadata, and user criteria in the 
tags (associated to files that need not be opened 
to perform searches/sorting) it could be a 
very power tool for organization--something that 
graphic artists and photographers would value
highly.  
 
Such a database could be great 
learning tool for spirited amateurs.  What speeds to stop 
motion?
What speeds for flowing water?  How 
does digital perform at higher ISO?  I recommend tagging 

all photos where contrast range in a scene 
exceeds the reach of a digital CCD.  (happens a lot!) 
 
A relational database can be a very powerful 
tool, and since digital is such a productive medium,
photographers really need one.  There's 
no way on earth Adobe could build a product that competes
with MySQL--the world's best database 
engine.   Tools that improve the WORKFLOW of 
photographers
and their clients would be worth considering.  

 
You can see Photoshop is making a small effort in 
CS, with sort routines in the browser.  Adobe 
cannot afford to package a powerful database 
engine, because they would be paying license fees! 
But Gimp already has a wonderful neighbor, who 
works for free.   
 
2.  The much talked about user 
interface.  Nobody will agree on one, any more than they agre

Re: [Gimp-developer] Plea for a new interface for the GIMP

[Carol Spears]

On Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 02:01:07AM +0200, Alex Fernandez wrote:
> 
> Please read through the list archives to find these suggestions; maybe
> you can come up with a way to convince GIMP developers, since a lot of
> users have the same feeling as you do.
> 
what you will probably find in the archives and in bugzilla is something
like repetition and the people who are actually working on gimp getting
bored and tired of it.

here is the real thing as i see it.  no one has a problem with changes
to gimp.  the very existence of gimpshop is evidence of this.

the gimp developers have their own opinions about gui and layout, but i
have seen them listen to people and such for a long while now.

the fact is, they are working on things that are more appealing to them.

here is how to get your desires into gimp.  write a patch and attach it
to bugzilla and deal with the peer review.

as a user who tried paintshoppro, photoshop and gimp at the same time
and opted to use gimp, i ask that you make these changes so that i do
not have to work that way.  have it set up in the preferences.

another really awesome approach to fixing this problem would be to write
a window manager for windows!  you would become famous and wellknown in
all of the software communities if you could accomplish such a task!

the standards for this window manager that all of the cool free software
applications have agreed to use can be found at:
http://www.freedesktop.org  so if you follow those guidelines, you will
be working with us and not against us.

if changing gimp only is what you want, please make your patch so that
it can be accessed via preferences so that the faithful users (not like
me, i am talking about the silent and perhaps majority) who like gimp
the way it is will not be put off or disappointed.

noise is one thing.  it is an important thing, but it is not terribly
useful.  at least not in the freesoftware world.  if you were a car and
complaining about safety, that is a different type of noise.

i can hear the silence of respect, can you?

back to the patch.  make it so that it is manipulated via the
preferences and attach the patch to bugzilla and be nice about the peer
review.  it is easy to work with them!

or, if working with the actual gimp developers is something you abhor or
are adverse to, maybe the people who brought you gimpshop are more to
your liking.

the thing about freesoftware is that much of it is up to you.  it is not
like there is only one way to do things.

and, a swift end to yet another noise thread on the list is the very
very best thing.

thanks,

carol

___
Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Re: [Gimp-developer] Plea for a new interface for the GIMP

[Alastair M. Robinson]

Hi,

Robert L Krawitz wrote:


Maybe there should be something in the menu bar that opens it on a
single click (rather than click/drag/release).


Double-cliking a tool causes the tool-options to be shown - that's 
probably sufficient.



That's a function of your window manager setting.  If you use click
raise, this will happen.  I don't have this problem personally, since
I don't use click to raise (click on the title bar or a hotkey are the
only ways for me to raise a window).


Sadly that's not an option under Windows, and most disappointingly, not 
under stock Gnome either.


Perhaps we should give some thought to a less intimidating default 
window layout, though.


All the best,
--
Alastair M. Robinson

___
Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Re: [Gimp-developer] Plea for a new interface for the GIMP

[Robert L Krawitz]

   Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:51:08 -0400
   From: "Roland Wild" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

   I saw your example but i continue to say that the GIMP can be
   "uncomfortable" to use.
   In your example  you don't
   have all the funcfionnality offer by the program (see
   http://docs.gimp.org/en/concepts-beginners.html#gimp-concepts-usage ).

   1 You don't have on your screen the tool options box and if you want it, it
   is accessible after several clicks.

Maybe there should be something in the menu bar that opens it on a
single click (rather than click/drag/release).

   2 When you click on your image window the main toolbox disappear
   behind.  What do you do?

That's a function of your window manager setting.  If you use click
raise, this will happen.  I don't have this problem personally, since
I don't use click to raise (click on the title bar or a hotkey are the
only ways for me to raise a window).

-- 
Robert Krawitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Tall Clubs International  --  http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2
Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton
___
Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Re: [Gimp-developer] Plea for a new interface for the GIMP

[Alex Fernandez]

Hi Roland,

>  I saw your example but i continue to say that the GIMP can be
> "uncomfortable" to use.
>  In your example you don't have all the funcfionnality offer by the program
> (see
> http://docs.gimp.org/en/concepts-beginners.html#gimp-concepts-usage

I saw your concept, and it looks quite nice. Others have suggested
similar things in the past, in the line of having the GIMP running in
its own window. For some reason, GIMP developers did not like it. It
is explained in the link you provide.

Please read through the list archives to find these suggestions; maybe
you can come up with a way to convince GIMP developers, since a lot of
users have the same feeling as you do.

Alex.
___
Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Re: [Gimp-developer] make a test

[Alan Horkan]

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006, Roland Wild wrote:

> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:07:59 -0400
> From: Roland Wild <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
> Subject: [Gimp-developer] make a test
>
> Bonjour,

Bonjour.  Ca va?

Lisez les regles de la liste s'il vous plais:
http://gimp.org/mail_lists.html
"Use the English language"

It may not be in the rules but there is a rule on Internet Relay Chat
(IRC) and it applies equally well to the mailing lists:
Do not ask permission to ask a question, just ask.

Sincerely

Alan Horkan


P.S. I tried but had to resort to help to make sure my French was correct.

P.P.S. Now that I read the rules for the list I wonder if
"Try to be grammatical" is in fact a grammatically correct sentence.
Moen's law of corrections strikes again?
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-corrections
___
Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Re: [Gimp-developer] Plea for a new interface user for the GIMP

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On 4/1/06, Roland Wild wrote:

>  I would like you to give me your opinion on this:
> http://linuxmedia.tuxfamily.org/contrib/gimp/index.html

I'm sorry, but this is example of inefficient usage of GIMP.

You can save a lot of screen space be regrouping palettes actually:
http://prokoudine.info/shots/gimp_layout.jpg

Alexandre
___
Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

[Gimp-developer] Plea for a new interface user for the GIMP

[Roland Wild]

Bonjour,

I don't speak english very well as I'm french from Martinique... but I will try. I apologize before for my bad english.
First I wanted to say a BIG THANKS for the GNU Image Manipulation
Program. I am a faithful user of this program since some years yet and
i would like to thank all the developpers who invest time in this
project to give to the masses the posibility to have at one's disposal
such a tool to draw.

However as using the GIMP "all the days",  I couldn't help to
admit: the GIMP interface user is a little "uncomfortable" to use.

It may be for this reason some have decided to transform his interface
like a very known graphic software:  I'm talking about gimpshop
software.

It for this reason I tried to review the GIMP API.
Before to show you that "review" I want to point out that I'm neither a
developper nor a designer but just a user. And I don't know if other
alternativ interfaces were suggested on this mailing list.

I would like you to give me your opinion on this:
http://linuxmedia.tuxfamily.org/contrib/gimp/index.html  you can
access to the english version by clicking on the little flag on the
top. this english version was translated by me: again I apologize for
the possible bad words.

Good bye
Roland C.
___
Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

[Gimp-developer] make a test

[Roland Wild]

Bonjour, 
___
Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer