Re: [Gimp-developer] ‘no image’ window: prog ress...
On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 22:08 +0100, peter sikking wrote: Michael Grosberg wrote: On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 20:58 +0100, peter sikking wrote: check it out when you have the chance. Where can one see the new spec? same old place: http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/No_image_open_specification but I actually meant check out the software... Difficult since it's not being built daily as far as I know. To give my $0.02, I think Gimp should simply emulate what is out there, namely the behavior of established applications such as Open Office and gedit. I am really struggling to say something nice here... ah: The perfect family car was invented ages ago: the volkwagen beetle. That did not stop designer from creating totally different cars for different needs. And customers from actually buying better cars. No reason to design a joystick-steered three wheeled car just to be different! Predictability of the UI is a very powerful tool and should not be dismissed. Applications don't work in a vacuum: they are used along with other applications, and asking users to switch mental gears when they switch from one app to another for no reason is not a good thing. The developers of those apps have struggled long with exactly the same problems Gimp is trying to solve and have come up with good solutions. Case in point: in your specification you state that the application will quit if: Close in the File menu is invoked and the no image’ window is shown While usually in such cases the close command is grayed out and only the quit command is available. What good reason do you have to change that? The idea of a window with no document in it is already established. You yourself said no gimmicks and yet in the design there's a cute looking wilber in the window's background, which is nice but really, you think without it users won't know what this window is? give users some credit! it's a gimmick and by your own rules should be removed. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
Hi, On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 15:31 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: About the graying out toolbox, dockers and elements not used when no image is open, I think it breaks a functionality that is already present in gimp: the ability to custumize the interface (moving dialogs to dockers, changing the dimensions and position of elements, etc.) That's, imo, a regression. Having to open an image to be able to customize the interface adds an extra step that has no purpose. You are making some wrong assumptions here. The toolbox is fully functional and so are the docks. Nothing prevents you from doing all the things that you could have done without an image opened. They do all still work and will continue to work. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ‘no image’ window: progre ss...
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Michael Grosberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To give my $0.02, I think Gimp should simply emulate what is out there, namely the behavior of established applications such as Open Office and gedit. I am really struggling to say something nice here... ah: The perfect family car was invented ages ago: the volkwagen beetle. That did not stop designer from creating totally different cars for different needs. And customers from actually buying better cars. No reason to design a joystick-steered three wheeled car just to be different! Predictability of the UI is a very powerful tool and should not be dismissed. Applications don't work in a vacuum: they are used along with other applications, and asking users to switch mental gears when they switch from one app to another for no reason is not a good thing. The developers of those apps have struggled long with exactly the same problems Gimp is trying to solve and have come up with good solutions. Case in point: in your specification you state that the application will quit if: Close in the File menu is invoked and the no image' window is shown While usually in such cases the close command is grayed out and only the quit command is available. What good reason do you have to change that? I agree this is difficult. I believe the intent here is to make gimp more symmetrical, so you can close images, and then you close the final image (the no-image-window) The idea of a window with no document in it is already established. You yourself said no gimmicks and yet in the design there's a cute looking wilber in the window's background, which is nice but really, you think without it users won't know what this window is? give users some credit! it's a gimmick and by your own rules should be removed. I must disagree. It is not a gimmick, because without it, it is difficult to rapidly identify where to drop. If your window has a title bar (keep in mind that not all window manager's show a titlebar attached to the window -- eg the WM I use shows the title of the window that is currently focused only, at the top of the screen.), the icon that identifies it as a gimp window is small, and may be obscured by other windows. Since this window is a DnD target and the user may want to do multiple drops quickly, it must be identifiable to the user in the greatest number of situations. Standard icon+text titlebars do not provide this. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 66, Issue 46
Hi, On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 03:18 +0100, Alchemie foto\grafiche wrote: just a example File/open location now tooltip is open a image from a specific location what i would like is simply open a image from a specific location...for more info click HERE And a click on that HERE( or clicking anywhere inside the tooltip if that technically more easy) will simply correspond to press F1...will hopen the contestual help and so the related help page User may not know about contestual gimp help and pressing F1 but even the most dumb will understand for more click here The new tooltips system in GTK+ allows arbitrary widgets as tooltips, so something like this would even be possible. I am not sure if clicking into a tooltip is supported though. Perhaps someone wants to give it a try... Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ‘no image’ window: prog ress...
Hi Peter, On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 20:58 +0100, peter sikking wrote: check it out when you have the chance. As you can see from the responses to your mail, there are quite a few trolls on this list who aren't even willing to try the new stuff. Otherwise we wouldn't have gotten so many responses that are obviously based on wrong assumptions and that clearly show that people have not followed your invitation to try the stuff in SVN. I suggest that we keep working on it some more and try to make sure that it works well on all platforms. Then we will do a 2.5.0 development release and that should give us the feedback we need for further improvements. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ‘no image’ window: prog ress...
The best way to fight trolls in this case may be to post a screen-shot of the current trunk on the Wiki. -- Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal http://lankerisms.blogspot.com (+91) 9945036093 ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ‘no image’ window: prog ress...
Hi, On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 08:40 +, Laxminarayan Kamath wrote: The best way to fight trolls in this case may be to post a screen-shot of the current trunk on the Wiki. A screenshot can't show all the changes and you actually need to use the software to find out how it feels. I may post some screenshots in my weblog soon, but I would like to finish the work on the GIMP Tips button first. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ‘no image’ window: prog ress...
Von: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 20:58 +0100, peter sikking wrote: check it out when you have the chance. As you can see from the responses to your mail, there are quite a few trolls on this list who aren't even willing to try the new stuff. Do not confuse those who are vocal with the majority. HTH, Michael -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ‘no image’ window: progre ss...
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 2:31 PM, peter sikking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GIMPsters, some good news on this front, I have spent a couple of man-days rethinking and re-specifying the 'no image' window situation. It is now roughly complete: I've used Gimp-SVN yesterday to create an black/white image from an photo to test the NIW. First of all I have to say, that I like it. But there are some points that feels wrong. I don't know if this are Gimp or Windowmanager (Metacity) problems but I hope we can find good solutions. Here is my list: - The close button in the toolbox closes Gimp and not only the toolbox. The best thing would be to remove the close button compleate. If that is not possible it would be nice if it would only close the toolbox. But then we need a way to get the toolbox back. - If I minimise the last image it would be nice if the toolbox and the layer window would be hidden too. Or add an way to see the complet desktop to find images I've placed there. - Do something with the wilber in the toolbox, I don't know why but I don't like it there. Perhaps move it in the lower left corner or add an different background colour. - It was a little bit annoying to have the layers dialog always on top. That was something I was a bit astonished about because I always wanted such a feature. It's that I like to see as much from the image as possible. To have the toolbox always on top was however very nice. - And I still don't know if I like it that I have to click twice on the image close button to quit Gimp. To discover this I need to use the new UI a little bit more. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:54:59 +0100, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 15:31 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: About the graying out toolbox, dockers and elements not used when no image is open, I think it breaks a functionality that is already present in gimp: the ability to custumize the interface (moving dialogs to dockers, changing the dimensions and position of elements, etc.) That's, imo, a regression. Having to open an image to be able to customize the interface adds an extra step that has no purpose. You are making some wrong assumptions here. The toolbox is fully functional and so are the docks. Nothing prevents you from doing all the things that you could have done without an image opened. They do all still work and will continue to work. so why are they greyed out ? it is a fairly universally established metaphore that greyed out means disabled. I dont think they should be disabled but the current situation seems to be niether on nor the other and in being a non standard state will confuse the user (as the earlier comment demonstrates). If they are active and have a ligitimate function in this context why are they grey? /gg Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer -- .*. /V\ (/ \) ( ) ^^_^^ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
As you can see from the responses to your mail, there are quite a few trolls on this list who aren't even willing to try the new stuff. Otherwise we wouldn't have gotten so many responses that are obviously based on wrong assumptions and that clearly show that people have not followed your invitation to try the stuff in SVN. Your comment is, as usual, insulting. It's not clear in the first Peter's message that the changes are already in SVN. He talks about concept and specification. So I just checked the wiki and, based on what is described there, gave my oppinion. In the same wiki Peter asks for feedback (but since it's a closed wiki, the only feedback we can give is using this list). You're assuming, as usual, that a final user should compile the svn code, know how to deal with the installed version and the development version in the same machine, etc. Otherwise the user can't speak his mind. Personally, I think I would be able to compile myself gimp in my machine, but I don't know how that would affect my current installation. And, since I'm an end user, I use gimp for my everyday work and can't change my working installation to an unstable version. I try to contribute from my place, but it's clear that this kind of contribution is not welcome. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ‘no image’ window: prog ress...
Hi, On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 11:34 +0100, Tobias Jakobs wrote: - If I minimise the last image it would be nice if the toolbox and the layer window would be hidden too. Or add an way to see the complet desktop to find images I've placed there. You can try the transient-docks feature in the Preferences dialog. It has issues, but it will cause the toolbox and dock windows to minimize with the active image window. - Do something with the wilber in the toolbox, I don't know why but I don't like it there. Perhaps move it in the lower left corner or add an different background colour. You will get used to it :) - It was a little bit annoying to have the layers dialog always on top. That was something I was a bit astonished about because I always wanted such a feature. It's that I like to see as much from the image as possible. To have the toolbox always on top was however very nice. We are playing with preference settings here. Nothing of this is set in stone and if we really want to keep the defaults as they are now (utility window hint set on the toolbox and dock windows), then we need to fix bug #362915. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
Hi, On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 13:41 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so why are they greyed out ? They aren't. That's the wrong assumption you are making. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
Hi, On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 13:27 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: You're assuming, as usual, that a final user should compile the svn code, know how to deal with the installed version and the development version in the same machine, etc. Otherwise the user can't speak his mind. I am assuming that people subscribed here, and actively taking place in the discussions, are GIMP developers. This is a developer list. If we wanted feedback from users, we had asked on the gimp-user list. And we will do that. But before this can happen we need to finish some more things and do a 2.5.0 development release. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-Perl memory leak
Andrei Simion wrote: We have installed the Gimp 2.4 and the swap file still grows. For instance after generating 20,000 images, the swap file size is 2.5 GB. The script that is causing problems has 630 lines of code. Do you want me to copy-paste it here, in the body of the email? Sending attachments to a list is not a good idea. I don't think this list allows it either. You can post a pointer to a script that people can download and look at. Since you are talking about scripts that are used as part of your companies business, you may not want to make those scripts public. As I worked on those scripts, I already have copies of them. If you remind me which of the three scripts (newimage, newimage5, or logov1) is the one used most, I can do some testing at my end. I will try to isolate the leak to a small set of operations or a specific API call. I would be doing this on a volunteer basis as my free time permits (mainly weekends and possibly some evenings) in order to help see that a problem in gimp-perl, or GIMP, gets found and fixed. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |What are we going to do today, Borg? Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world! #include disclaimer/favourite | -Pinkutus the Borg ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-Perl memory leak
Andrei Simion wrote: We have installed the Gimp 2.4 and the swap file still grows. For instance after generating 20,000 images, the swap file size is 2.5 GB. If this is still happening in GIMP 2.4, a bug report should be opened against the gimp-perl component. It would also be a place to attach any script(s) which would allow someone to duplicate the problem. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |What are we going to do today, Borg? Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world! #include disclaimer/favourite | -Pinkutus the Borg ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 66, Issue 46
Hi, On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 08:58 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote: The new tooltips system in GTK+ allows arbitrary widgets as tooltips, so something like this would even be possible. I am not sure if clicking into a tooltip is supported though. Perhaps someone wants to give it a try... I've added something like this to GIMP today. It is actually not possible to click into a tooltip. But it's easy to add some text for tooltips on menu items telling the user how to get more help with a single key-press: http://sven.gimp.org/misc/gimp-tooltip.png Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] proposal update
I appreciate all the feedback I've received on the tear-away interface. I've decided to tear that part out of the proposal and focus strictly on the gallery/batch-processing idea that seemed to be of more interest from the comments I received. Those with access can read my rewritten proposal GIMP Gallery/Processor. For those who don't have access, I would like implement a gallery-type of panel where users can work with images in a way similar to Adobe's Lightroom where users could browser through thumbnails of images and apply multiple transformations/filters to them. Thanks for all the feedback. Josh ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Google Summer of Code - Attention all Mentors
Hi, I'd like to remind all mentors of the GIMP project to sign up at http://code.google.com/soc/2008/mentor_home.html (make sure to check the check box next to GIMP in the organization list) This will get you access to the application that have come in so far: http://code.google.com/soc/2008/gimp/open.html Please do take a few moments to read them, and if you like or dislike anything, please do comment on them - you can do this either in public or in private by writing in the text boxes on the form. Timeline The next important events on the GSoc timeline are: April 1, 2008, 00:00 UTC - Deadline for applications By this date, all student applications have to be submitted. Modifications to existing applications are still possible. Ranking of applications by the mentors does commence. April 11, 2008, 07:00 UTC - Deadline for ranking of applications By this date, the ranking has to be finished. Regards, Michael -- GIMP http://www.gimp.org | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp Wiki http://wiki.gimp.org | .de: http://gimpforum.de Plug-ins http://registry.gimp.org | ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
