Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 07:53 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote: I think the point here is that configure, make, make install on a GIMP tarball - with all dependencies met - should result in a GIMP installation with good support for working with RAW images. Oh come on. The ufraw plug-in is much better maintained outside the GIMP source tree. No one would benefit if we tried to include all third-party plug-ins in the GIMP source tree. That's just silly. Our product vision states that GIMP should be easily extendable. Instead of adding more plug-ins to the source tree, as you suggest, we should work on making it easier for users to install additional plug-ins. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 22:35:49 +0200, Sven Neumann wrote: On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 07:53 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote: I think the point here is that configure, make, make install on a GIMP tarball - with all dependencies met - should result in a GIMP installation with good support for working with RAW images. Oh come on. The ufraw plug-in is much better maintained outside the GIMP source tree. No one would benefit if we tried to include all third-party plug-ins in the GIMP source tree. That's just silly. Our product vision states that GIMP should be easily extendable. Instead of adding more plug-ins to the source tree, as you suggest, we should work on making it easier for users to install additional plug-ins. As the maintainer of one of those outside the tree plugins (the enhance Print plugin with Gutenprint), I have to agree with this. Keep in mind that one of the big reasons for Photoshop's success is the variety of externally available plugins available for it that offer functionality well beyond that of the core application. This is particularly important for things like non-standard file formats (such as RAW, which is camera-specific and new formats come along with each new camera release). It's simply not practical for GIMP to do a new release with every new RAW sub-format, while the ufraw team is well equipped to do so. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On 9/20/10, fufuz wrote: I read on the Internet, that GEGL will provide support for many raw format types of different camera manufacturers already by itself Where I come from people say that the only thing that happens by itself is newborn kittens :) GEGL already uses libopenraw library that is a can-opener for RAW file formats. Unfortunately as a project this library seems to be dead. There are other open/free libraries for dealing with RAW, like LibRaw, so this is not exactly the issue. The way things are going native RAW support in GIMP using GEGL + some can-opener library will likely require a dedicated developer in the team. Which the team doesn't seem to have right now, being heavily shorthanded and outnumbered. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On Mon, 2010-09-20 at 01:11 +0200, fu...@gmx.net wrote: Without the requirement of installing separate software/plug-ins. GIMP can't load or save any file format except XCF without separate plug-ins. So by your definition of native support GIMP doesn't support any file formats except XCF. Most features in GIMP are implemented as plug-ins. So I don't see your point in asking us to add RAW support to the core. There's a plug-in for it, just as for any other file format. What's admittedly missing is the ability of the core to process files in higher bit depths than 8bit per pixel. This is definitely on the roadmap. I read on the Internet, that GEGL will provide support for many raw format types of different camera manufacturers already by itself, without the need of UFRAW or anything else. That is wrong. GEGL will also use third-party libraries to read and write RAW files. We are certainly not going to reinvent the wheel. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote: ... GEGL will also use third-party libraries to read and write RAW files. We are certainly not going to reinvent the wheel. GEGL already supports using dcraw to load raw files using the operations gegl:raw-load uses the dcraw binary, reading back the decompressed data using pipes. http://git.gnome.org/browse/gegl/tree/operations/common/raw-load.c There is also an operation in the operations workshop called gegl:rawbayer-load that can be used to only get the grayscale matrix allowing to use a custom operation for the demosaicing. /Øyvind K. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
GIMP can't load or save any file format except XCF without separate plug-ins. So by your definition of native support GIMP doesn't support any file formats except XCF. Most features in GIMP are implemented as plug-ins. So I don't see your point in asking us to add RAW support to the core. There's a plug-in for it, just as for any other file format. You get me wrong! I don't say to program it into the core, I am just suggesting, that GIMP should already be shipped with all the required stuff (third-party libraries/plug-ins) that's needed to open/write raw files, instead of depending on software, that has to be downloaded/installed separately. RAW support is a very important and common feature for a graphics editor and should be provided by the main product itself (my opinion). Especially, because 64-bit builds of GIMP are currently in the testing phase and you can't count on third-party developers to release a compatible version of their plug-ins. -- GRATIS: Spider-Man 1-3 sowie 300 weitere Videos! Jetzt freischalten! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On Mon, 2010-09-20 at 22:18 +0200, fu...@gmx.net wrote: GIMP can't load or save any file format except XCF without separate plug-ins. So by your definition of native support GIMP doesn't support any file formats except XCF. Most features in GIMP are implemented as plug-ins. So I don't see your point in asking us to add RAW support to the core. There's a plug-in for it, just as for any other file format. You get me wrong! I don't say to program it into the core, I am just suggesting, that GIMP should already be shipped with all the required stuff (third-party libraries/plug-ins) that's needed to open/write raw files, instead of depending on software, that has to be downloaded/installed separately. Then you should direct that suggestion to your distribution of choice. We don't decide what's included in the GIMP package that you install. I agree that it would be a good idea if the gimp-ufraw package was suggested whenever you select gimp for installation. It should probably also be included in the Windows installer. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On 09/20/2010 10:51 PM, Sven Neumann wrote: On Mon, 2010-09-20 at 22:18 +0200, fu...@gmx.net wrote: GIMP can't load or save any file format except XCF without separate plug-ins. So by your definition of native support GIMP doesn't support any file formats except XCF. Most features in GIMP are implemented as plug-ins. So I don't see your point in asking us to add RAW support to the core. There's a plug-in for it, just as for any other file format. You get me wrong! I don't say to program it into the core, I am just suggesting, that GIMP should already be shipped with all the required stuff (third-party libraries/plug-ins) that's needed to open/write raw files, instead of depending on software, that has to be downloaded/installed separately. Then you should direct that suggestion to your distribution of choice. We don't decide what's included in the GIMP package that you install. I agree that it would be a good idea if the gimp-ufraw package was suggested whenever you select gimp for installation. It should probably also be included in the Windows installer. I think the point here is that configure, make, make install on a GIMP tarball - with all dependencies met - should result in a GIMP installation with good support for working with RAW images. And I agree with that, we should not rely on third party packagers to help us fulfil our product vision. / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Automatic tab style and removed tab title bar ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
A few programs (CinePaint for example) use dcraw to allow direct support for opening/processing RAW files of many camera manufacturers. I personally think, that it would be a great feature for GIMP, too. I've also read, that the full implementation of GEGL will provide native RAW support in a future version of GIMP. Is this true or is raw support a planned feature at least? Thanks for a reply! -- GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On 09/19/2010 03:46 PM, fu...@gmx.net wrote: A few programs (CinePaint for example) use dcraw to allow direct support for opening/processing RAW files of many camera manufacturers. I personally think, that it would be a great feature for GIMP, too. I've also read, that the full implementation of GEGL will provide native RAW support in a future version of GIMP. Is this true or is raw support a planned feature at least? The GIMP product vision [1] states among other things: GIMP is a high-end photo manipulation application which certainly includes RAW support out-of-the-box. So yes, eventually GIMP will get that. But there is no plan for when the code for it will be written. Maybe after GIMP 3.0 when we have high bit-depths and non-destructive editing in place will be a good time to include it, but no one will reject a good set of patches that adds it already to 3.0. / Martin [1] http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/GIMP_UI_Redesign#product_vision -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Automatic tab style and removed tab title bar ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On Sunday, September 19, 2010 08:51:10 am Martin Nordholts wrote: On 09/19/2010 03:46 PM, fu...@gmx.net wrote: A few programs (CinePaint for example) use dcraw to allow direct support for opening/processing RAW files of many camera manufacturers. I personally think, that it would be a great feature for GIMP, too. I've also read, that the full implementation of GEGL will provide native RAW support in a future version of GIMP. Is this true or is raw support a planned feature at least? The GIMP product vision [1] states among other things: GIMP is a high-end photo manipulation application which certainly includes RAW support out-of-the-box. So yes, eventually GIMP will get that. But there is no plan for when the code for it will be written. Maybe after GIMP 3.0 when we have high bit-depths and non-destructive editing in place will be a good time to include it, but no one will reject a good set of patches that adds it already to 3.0. / Martin [1] http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/GIMP_UI_Redesign#product_vision UFRAW has a nice GIMP plug-in that has full RAW processing features. Not sure why it is necessary to reinvent the wheel. Hal ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On Sun, 2010-09-19 at 15:46 +0200, fu...@gmx.net wrote: A few programs (CinePaint for example) use dcraw to allow direct support for opening/processing RAW files of many camera manufacturers. I personally think, that it would be a great feature for GIMP, too. You can already open and process RAW files of many camera manufacturers in GIMP after installing the UFRaw plug-in from http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/. But I guess that direct support means something else for you? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
Thanks, but I know UFRAW and I am also using it myself, but that's not the point of my question. I just wanted to know, when GIMP will support RAW processing out of the box. Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:46:44 +0200 Von: Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org An: fu...@gmx.net CC: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU Betreff: Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support On Sun, 2010-09-19 at 15:46 +0200, fu...@gmx.net wrote: A few programs (CinePaint for example) use dcraw to allow direct support for opening/processing RAW files of many camera manufacturers. I personally think, that it would be a great feature for GIMP, too. You can already open and process RAW files of many camera manufacturers in GIMP after installing the UFRaw plug-in from http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/. But I guess that direct support means something else for you? Sven -- GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
On Sun, 2010-09-19 at 21:01 +0200, fu...@gmx.net wrote: Thanks, but I know UFRAW and I am also using it myself, but that's not the point of my question. I just wanted to know, when GIMP will support RAW processing out of the box. Define out of the box, please. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support
Without the requirement of installing separate software/plug-ins. I read on the Internet, that GEGL will provide support for many raw format types of different camera manufacturers already by itself, without the need of UFRAW or anything else. Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:21:17 +0200 Von: Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org An: fu...@gmx.net CC: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU Betreff: Re: [Gimp-developer] Native RAW support On Sun, 2010-09-19 at 21:01 +0200, fu...@gmx.net wrote: Thanks, but I know UFRAW and I am also using it myself, but that's not the point of my question. I just wanted to know, when GIMP will support RAW processing out of the box. Define out of the box, please. Sven -- GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
