Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP on OS X
Robert L Krawitz wrote: If whoever's maintaining the OS X port of the GIMP is reading this, it's apparently missing a Print plugin. By: Mark Townsend - marktownsend Printing from GIMP, OSX 2004-09-26 09:13 I just hope that the answer to this one is not so obvuous that I will be embarassed. I have been using GIMP Print for some time (Excellent!) and I have now installed GIMP itself. Nowhere can I find any information about how I actually print from GIMP! The Read Me that came with GIMP says it is handled by GIMP Print but HOW? There is no print command in any menu and no reference to printing in any help file that I can find. I tried reinstalling GIMP Print to no avail. This is somewhat ironic, given that MacOSX Panther comes with gimp-print drivers and libraries installed. (I am assuming that you are talking about gimp-2.0 and MacOSX 10.3. For earlier versions it won't work.) Just make sure that you chose the optional package GimpPrintPrinterDrivers.pkg when you installed your system. Apple wouldn't be Apple, however, if they hadn't omitted a crucial header file. You need to install gimp-print/gimp-print.h from the gimp-print project at some place where the preprocessor can see it. If you use Fink, install the gimp-print-dev package. - Martin ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
On Feb 25, 2004, at 11:27 pm, Daniel Rogers wrote: sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmax=41943040 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmin=1 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmni=320 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmseg=80 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmall=10240 DUH! How could I possibly forget about sysctl. That doesn't seem to work though: lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmax=41943040 kern.sysv.shmmax: 4194304 - 4194304 lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmin=1 kern.sysv.shmmin: 1 - 1 lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmni=320 kern.sysv.shmmni: 32 - 32 lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmseg=80 kern.sysv.shmseg: 8 - 8 lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmall=10240 kern.sysv.shmall: 1024 - 1024 Servus, Daniel PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
On Feb 26, 2004, at 5:38 pm, Daniel Rogers wrote: Who knows? Who cares? but you do need to edit /etc/rc to see any effect. Thanks for the explanation. I did just what you told me and retested, but it doesn't have any positive impact on the slowness. Servus, Daniel PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
Daniel Egger wrote: On Feb 25, 2004, at 11:27 pm, Daniel Rogers wrote: sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmax=41943040 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmin=1 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmni=320 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmseg=80 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmall=10240 DUH! How could I possibly forget about sysctl. That doesn't seem to work though: lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmax=41943040 kern.sysv.shmmax: 4194304 - 4194304 lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmin=1 kern.sysv.shmmin: 1 - 1 lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmni=320 kern.sysv.shmmni: 32 - 32 lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmseg=80 kern.sysv.shmseg: 8 - 8 lucy:~ root# sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmall=10240 kern.sysv.shmall: 1024 - 1024 Yes, in fact it doesn't. I played around with this quite a bit. The explanation requires understanding how the startup sequence works and mach security modes. The first process run by Mac OS X in the normal boot-up sequence is init, which begins in mach security mode 0, and very shortly moves to mac security mode 1 (I belive man init explains this). In security mode 1, thos sysctl values can only ever be set _once_. Since they are set in /etc/rc, which is the first thing that init runs, you cannot change them after that. This is why you need to edit the rc file and reboot. If you are in single user mode, which explictly is in security mode 0, then you can set these values as many times as you wish. Judging from the way the rc scripts are set up, I am guessing that these values are not so restricted in the server version, though I haven't tested it. This goes back to the question as to why apple would restrict you from changing the values after boot, and why they would set the defaults to low. Who knows? Who cares? but you do need to edit /etc/rc to see any effect. Servus, Daniel -- Daniel ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
Hi, Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Feb 11, 2004, at 10:51 pm, Nathan Carl Summers wrote: IIRC, didn't early versions of OS X have truly pitiful amounts of shared memory available? Perhaps that is the reason. So now I recompiled GTK 2.2.4 with SHM and I cannot sense any difference in behaviour. However scrolling in gnumeric is still as slow[1] as before. Did you increase the shared memory limit? I am not sure what happens if it the X server hits the limit but I guess it just silently stops allocating more shared memory. So unless you changed that limit, it's not surprising that there's no difference to be sensed. I must say that GTK 1.2 runs like a charm here, even without SHM. GIMP 1.2 starts in a couple of seconds with all plugins on a cache cold system and is snappy all over... I really need to try 2.0 soon From my experience GIMP-2.0 runs very nicely on MacOS X. I even had PS users claim that the GIMP-2.0 user interface would feel more responsive than PS on the same machine. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
On Feb 25, 2004, at 2:12 PM, Daniel Egger wrote: On Feb 25, 2004, at 10:11 am, Sven Neumann wrote: Did you increase the shared memory limit? I am not sure what happens if it the X server hits the limit but I guess it just silently stops allocating more shared memory. Err, I know somewhat how to mess with POSIX SHM in applications but how can I change the shared memory limits? On mac os 10.3, in /etc/rc Look at the lines: sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmax=41943040 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmin=1 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmni=320 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmseg=80 sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmall=10240 This is already adjusted by a factor of 10, which will probably help things, but feel free to adjust it higher. keep shmmin=1 the same though. Then reboot. On mac os x client, these adjustements only work the first time you set them, so comment out of old lines or replace them entirely. In mac os 10.2 and eariler, there is a similar thing done in the startup script SystemTuning or somesuch, but I don't have a 10.2 system to investigae. -- Dan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
Hi, Daniel recently posted a list of X extensions supported by the Apple X11 server. The MIT-SHM extension was part of this list but today I found that at least in darwinports gtk2 is compiled with the --disable-shm configure option. Does anyone know if fink does this as well? Is there a particular reason to disable the use of the XShm extension on OS X? This would explain at least some of the slowness that people reported here lately. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 11, 2004, at 4:06 pm, Sven Neumann wrote: Daniel recently posted a list of X extensions supported by the Apple X11 server. The MIT-SHM extension was part of this list but today I found that at least in darwinports gtk2 is compiled with the --disable-shm configure option. Does anyone know if fink does this as well? I can confirm it does. Is there a particular reason to disable the use of the XShm extension on OS X? This would explain at least some of the slowness that people reported here lately. No idea, I can try compiling it with SHM and see what happens if that would help... - -- Servus, Daniel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iQEVAwUBQCqOvjBkNMiD99JrAQLplAf/UUvfJjPrewVorUZCo7V+D7jnlrxWW4yP biaHfUFYwSXSlP7RCPETohw2MwJk1zfu9yV9r/Pg0y3Q/CSIRyN+6juhKEn4emes pZE+olXq+2Pcz1ueFSieYT93eZRlsnu1vPBUsu4YE1idT0YLcqh314q9GfrgAJ1C wNfhb3JM9Kenm0svugkq3OWuYsNiehknxmaC4HyrN0dAtpTP8pZSP3xnszQDSCvX qfIoyU0rAWoLI8smuhLOXHRKqzOGrcDrLKRxkuB34LXQBF3BEFVkcVHpbtpx4FtI oQLLHc7i5Wwrx8HYtszVvuGrzgQGRHmojrhnRCEgVAk/PlZJQEAkiA== =TfT+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Daniel Egger wrote: On Feb 11, 2004, at 4:06 pm, Sven Neumann wrote: Daniel recently posted a list of X extensions supported by the Apple X11 server. The MIT-SHM extension was part of this list but today I found that at least in darwinports gtk2 is compiled with the --disable-shm configure option. Does anyone know if fink does this as well? I can confirm it does. Is there a particular reason to disable the use of the XShm extension on OS X? This would explain at least some of the slowness that people reported here lately. IIRC, didn't early versions of OS X have truly pitiful amounts of shared memory available? Perhaps that is the reason. Rockwalrus ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X (was: Re: Misnamed structure element in SFScript structure?)
Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) writes: BTW: In OSX gtk 2 has really sucky rendering performance compared to gtk 1. The same is true for gtk+ on other X11 platforms (but it's usually bearable, but very noticable). The biggest offender is font drawing: Xft is a rather slow design already and the (very good!) i18n features of gtk+2 seem to cost even further cycles. It helps to a) avoid antialiasing (small effect) b) use x fonts (big effect). If fonts are rendered using XRender, font rendering shouldn't be a major problem. But I don't have any numbers to base this on. There might be other slowdowns, but I think fonts and themes are the predominant offenders that make gtk+2 so slow. I think what's slowing gtk+2 down is the back-buffering on the client side. Every expose event causes a pixmap to be allocated. Drawing operations are then redirected to that pixmap and finally the pixmap is blitted to the screen. This makes the display flicker-free but can bring down performance quite badly. Another slowness is the treeview. There's a major speedup possible by fixing the row heights and Wwe could do this for The GIMP but it will need GTK+-2.4. There's also some possible optimizations in our preview code. At the moment we sometimes convert a GdkPixbuf to a TempBuf when we could render the pixbuf directly. Perhaps we can improve this for GIMP-2.2 but I doubt that it will make a noticeable difference. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 5, 2004, at 10:35 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) wrote: It helps to a) avoid antialiasing (small effect) b) use x fonts (big effect). Thanks for this tip. I'll try installing some high quality X fonts (which is sort of an Oxymoron but anyway). The interesting thing is, my Linux notebook is running exactly the same truetype fonts which I extracted from Mac OS X 10.2 some time ago. a) is not an option for me. I put many hours in the try to get rid of that crappy OS X antialiasing and instead have the nice X RENDER subpixel antialiasing. Now that I finally have a gnome-terminal with subpixel antialising and a working vim with UTF-8 I will certainly never go back. Also, if you use a theme of some kind, try wether not using one will improve your rendering. In my experience, even a simple theme engine can make rendering much slower. Indeed, it makes some difference. However even with the built-in theme it is still slower than on Linux, even if the latter has a very complex theme. BTW: The easiest way to test this is firing up gnumeric and scrolling up and down with the scrollwheel on the mouse. Linux (remeber, this is a much slower machine and runs with a complex GTK2 theme!) jumps instantly to the destination row. OS X lags behind fractions of a second to several seconds, depending on the distance. The net result is not only that gnumeric is hardly fast enough to be usable but also that many GTK2 applications really feel slow and the perceived speed is especially important for daily use. On the other hand there's another issue with GTK1 that bugs me: It tends to swallow button down events which is quite annyoing when one wants to switch tools or start drawing in the image. - -- Servus, Daniel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iQEVAwUBQCOD+DBkNMiD99JrAQIqNwf/eZFGzyEe+AWwIU/DQWJGMpdRMwLHIdux sh9X3ZcpdzY2eZDrzTjIJwJPvitlA641xGszuZka7BlPGH5l/3rBvjgM3gPODXAT iSuwIqv1hYW3lgkF8iQL2jCvS015/j7Eh1Cx3WO/wE26cUo0uXddqdKtyzsWPsnP /MxckT8LtrNXTF9PY/tETTDJit9jfQ/YGc6Nhfr2/QkmC7OJyKMribvWTVLGQeoF 7weYvvJAyzQEnbc5mJhdCMzUTN8KAOJO28HgJPZM4HpJ5GuS7e6txL8h/2sbOllh ZpUrBxgDUV92xzlpkFA7mTLBeEA2017v0unahgtwly5NUy8lO0tTqQ== =Tvo9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 5, 2004, at 9:26 pm, Sven Neumann wrote: You will need Darwinports (http://darwinports.opendarwin.org/) but IMO darwinports is an improvement over fink. Of course your mileage may vary. Too complicated to install, at least I did and since I already had fink I didn't care enough to try twice. What I really like about fink is apt-get in the back. No cluttering of the system, no stray files, just packages which can be easily installed and removed (and FWIW I even provide them for friends). simplicitywise. There's still no package for gimp2. There is one but last I checked it wasn't in the official fink tree yet: http://www.breakmyfink.net/finkfiles.php?pkgorder=up breakmyfink doesn't sound that comfortable to me... :) The official Apple X11 that comes with 10.3. This one is still best integrated and the best performer, so there is no real choice. This is the first time then that I hear complaints about performance of GTK2 applications on the Apple X11 server. Are you sure this is a general problem? I'm convinced this is a problem with GTK2, since GTK1 and Motif applications run fast as hell... Probably too much invalidations or other notifications which need to go through the additional layer... GTK2 is also slower than GTK1 under Linux/X11 but it's not as noticeable - -- Servus, Daniel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iQEVAwUBQCN8bjBkNMiD99JrAQLyJgf9HtcZgsIU4kKqEVMFGnHYCuLcOWpRBrWL NmTqsYGlfcOoxn1eMXICHti6UwDevs2zRuSJ17xHNQUJgXwlZk9fhQL79BJcIFmr inSfIV+mlx3CgWjhVr002pgAKYaiSfw0kK2EIUcQ+Rn51XvjwUHWx+i3PObbVYpq TxRkEn+O5B3WLcYyrKxXEj9ZwSehOt9ZlBdO5emdALVy4W+vckMgJ2o3dv2t1F2H bopEETYzUgiG9f7bW565uEZ1rMeYCCcnYE0aHW1JecWxvZGhavNtsopestk4/tJ7 JOVb0KDf56QgEDutduy9kGxcWKTm2lC8o51bbhHSXuHHRCWaOhBf/A== =/7w5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
Hi, Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You will need Darwinports (http://darwinports.opendarwin.org/) but IMO darwinports is an improvement over fink. Of course your mileage may vary. Too complicated to install, at least I did and since I already had fink I didn't care enough to try twice. Checking out a cvs repository and typing configure; make; make install doesn't sound too complicated to me. Just adding this comment so that people don't get a wrong impression... Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
In regard to: Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X, Daniel Egger said (at...: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 5, 2004, at 10:35 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) wrote: It helps to a) avoid antialiasing (small effect) b) use x fonts (big effect). Thanks for this tip. I'll try installing some high quality X fonts (which is sort of an Oxymoron but anyway). The interesting thing is, my Linux notebook is running exactly the same truetype fonts which I extracted from Mac OS X 10.2 some time ago. I haven't played with OS X enough to know, but does its X server support the Render extension? If not, that's probably why GTK+ 2 is slower. Also, support for X fonts in pango has been dropped, so in the not-too-distant future Marc's suggestion isn't going to be an option. Owen explained it very well here http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2003-April/msg00176.html The net result is not only that gnumeric is hardly fast enough to be usable but also that many GTK2 applications really feel slow and the perceived speed is especially important for daily use. I've noticed this too, using an X server on a commercial UNIX platform. Owen has talked about performance improvements for non-Render platforms, and I'm certainly hoping they become a reality in the next year. Tim -- Tim Mooney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Information Technology Services (701) 231-1076 (Voice) Room 242-J6, IACC Building (701) 231-8541 (Fax) North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164 ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 6, 2004, at 4:32 pm, Sven Neumann wrote: Checking out a cvs repository and typing configure; make; make install doesn't sound too complicated to me. It is, especially when it doesn't work out-of-the-box. Also this is equivalently complicated to compiling a simple application manually. Just adding this comment so that people don't get a wrong impression... No problem. This is a free world... :) I still prefer a decent packagemanagement like the one that comes with Debian - -- Servus, Daniel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iQEVAwUBQCPBmzBkNMiD99JrAQIJIAf/fXxLrZbamRasRnJ34+pJk7VzWIRt4R6K 23pDDJcX5UYfcwhsmtbV/A171b0aE4fimcYkSWXUG9f3bD58FV/rv6Kb9J6YerOy 5wCtmqSL0xDvBsqnIN1yLThlYNFRaydJ4qBoEitS2O5v6Jya/TBBIFzO4aKHFbsH AerO1oczyFdt9O2N3uBWLGCXhYwIWQ1THn0Z/l+ekL+dfY6CVrDqBa0/YbiGkGyn M8ctJyOormK2RWO2F4voMpXVWsjbJFzt5ek+8Asp/6Vdch3d/ydGS7eTsuEMtrFX xqUcYkDE4PieylWyqmLZGZcs9ySsXFkjEKMmtUmirwq+w2HBVNZVvw== =EyR+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 6, 2004, at 5:12 pm, Tim Mooney wrote: I haven't played with OS X enough to know, but does its X server support the Render extension? If not, that's probably why GTK+ 2 is slower. number of extensions:28 Apple-DRI Apple-WM BIG-REQUESTS DEC-XTRAP DOUBLE-BUFFER DPMS Extended-Visual-Information FontCache GLX LBX MIT-SCREEN-SAVER MIT-SHM MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD RECORD RENDER SECURITY SGI-GLX SHAPE SYNC TOG-CUP X-Resource XC-APPGROUP XC-MISC XFree86-Bigfont XINERAMA XKEYBOARD XTEST XVideo It seems so. Hard to tell for me whether this is just the API extension or a hardware accelerated implementation. Do you have any idea how to gather this data? I've noticed this too, using an X server on a commercial UNIX platform. Owen has talked about performance improvements for non-Render platforms, and I'm certainly hoping they become a reality in the next year. Meanwhile I've profiled gnumeric while waiting for the scrollwheel action to catch up and indeed it seems that the scrolling causes a lot of activity both in GTK and the X server with the activity in the X server being mostly blit operations resulting in memcpys. So it seems that updates are a really costly operation which should be better avoided and actions to cause them reduced by coalescing and/or grouped... - -- Servus, Daniel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iQEVAwUBQCPEFDBkNMiD99JrAQKeHwf8DzFYIS0sXxefIAf/UUX5SGizEK9WFPUK nK3DHHUir30tlTi/2yMQpSlNGkRx6gfI0f/AF1IwsVAmyP8tCbmsl13YP/rfhu46 QDuBoVspPUUPTSdUWKvYewtEnLz8Mmu1wYPfaYvOHeNKgogQlr3QlIhtOY/YDQhY evxxHmPI2jiAFgtKN23PYmA76b/wCNoFRIR9c4qVxkB5r49e71ZAbBZLEcV8LEjg NOu1sfjIAEiCuLeHorx4km0lbdx7DYIDrBZxFipzx0JzvrzMmI1NIMtE+3or5U1Z nBtidyQ3NVaWk2ckQy9PtjQJxn4daqzdeSpy2TJUnUkNb/6frt0QjA== =Yvep -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp on OS X
Hi, Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: FWIW I'm using GIMP 1.2 under OS X and suspect that there might be a few freaks who do so, too simply because it's easily to install if there's fink on the machine. Installing gimp2 should be about as easy nowadays. BTW: In OSX gtk 2 has really sucky rendering performance compared to gtk 1. I haven't tried GIMP v2 as of yet but other applications' UIs like gnumeric and evolution are simply slow on my new PowerBook which is certainly not a weak performer. FWIW one can feel the performance difference between my old PowerBook under Linux and the new PowerBook under OS X with the same applications. This is quite a showstopper for GIMP v2. Do you use XFree or the X-Server that Apple provides? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
