Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all? (was: Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults)
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:23:38 +0200, "Michael Schumacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Come to think of it, there's probably no reason why anyone should use a > gimp.org address for arbitrary messages to the mailing lists. They are good > for automated things like the bugs list or could be used for stricly > project-releated stuff like release announcements or other specific roles - > ftpmaster, webmaster and such. I disagree: these gimp.org addresses are useful and I do not think that they should only be restricted to "official" communications, as long as they are used in a reasonable way. I have received many messages from people using an address ending in gnome.org, kde.org, freedesktop.org, debian.org or several other project-related domains and I never considered them to be an official statement of the project unless they explicitely said so. Most of the time, this was a developer stating a personal opinion. When these messages were sent to mailing lists (even lists related to other projects), I don't think that anybody was confused about whether they represented some official position or not. Granted, the authors are usually careful about not using terms like "we" or "the developers" while stating a personal opinion. But I do not think that the policy for using the gimp.org addresses should be very different from what other projects are doing. It is up to the domain owner or administrator (Yosh in our case) to decide who gets a gimp.org address and how such addresses may or may not be used. Personally, I am glad to have a gimp.org address because it allows me to handle my gimp-related mail more efficiently. It allows me to send messages from home or from work using the same sender address, ensuring that all replies will go to the same address (Reply-To is unreliable). That address is forwarded to a computer from which I can download e-mail easily regardless of where I am. I do not think that I have ever used my gimp.org e-mail address publicly in a way that would intentionally misrepresent the project and I hope to keep on using it for as long as I contribute to the project. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
Hi, On Fri, 2006-09-22 at 15:01 +0200, Roel Schroeven wrote: > Well, there's one thing that doesn't work without the middle mouse > button: panning. Not in the development version. You can pan by pressing the space bar there. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
0> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
0> Roel Schroeven mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ("Roel") wrote:
Roel> Sven Neumann schreef:
>>
>> GIMP doesn't rely on the mouse wheel for anything. It uses it if it's
>> there and that's what the mouse wheel controller is doing. Carol is
>> making a fuss out of nothing. Just ignore her.
Roel> Well, there's one thing that doesn't work without the middle
Roel> mouse button: panning.
I thought we were talking about wheel-less mice, not ones with no
middle button at all?
Nevertheless, it is possible to scroll using scrollbars or the panning
widget that appears where the scrollbars meet, without needing anything
other than button 1.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
On Fri, 2006-09-22 at 15:01 +0200, Roel Schroeven wrote: > Well, there's one thing that doesn't work without the middle mouse > button: panning. Hi! you will be happy to hear that you can pan with a spacebar + lmb now (In cvs HEAD that is). cheers -- Jakub Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Novell, Inc. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
Sven Neumann schreef: Hi, On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 19:37 +0200, Roel Schroeven wrote: It seems that more and more applications start to rely more or less heavily on middle mouse buttons and/or scrollwheels (Gimp and Google Earth come to mind), which is a bit annoying as my laptop is my main machine. GIMP doesn't rely on the mouse wheel for anything. It uses it if it's there and that's what the mouse wheel controller is doing. Carol is making a fuss out of nothing. Just ignore her. Well, there's one thing that doesn't work without the middle mouse button: panning. But as I said in another post, it's absolutely not a big deal to me. It might have been wiser not to give in to my desire to spout my opinion. -- If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants. -- Isaac Newton Roel Schroeven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef: On Thursday, September 21, 2006, 19:37:23, Roel Schroeven wrote: OTOH, touchpads and pointing sticks on laptops don't have scroll wheels. All laptops with touchpads I've seen offer one or more of the following: - scrollwheel emulation by dragging at the edge of touchpad (some touchpads even have a slightly separated area for this, although this is completely a software [driver] setting) Yes, my laptop does have that too, and it's very practical for scrolling in large documents. But I don't think it emits WM_MOUSEWHEEL messages in Windows or the equivalent in X, since it only works in 'normal' applications. It doesn't work, for example, for zooming in or out in applications like Google Earth or similar. If a Synaptics employee is reading this: maybe think about emiting WM_MOUSEWHEEL messages in the driver instead of what the driver does now? My laptop also has a 4-way button for scrolling horizontally and vertically, but with the same limitation. - button with up/down keys, which emulates wheel - button, which you hold and drag on the touchpad to emulate wheel Ah, that sounds nice. I'm going to pay attention to those things for the next laptop I buy. They often even don't feature middle mouse buttons, though I have never understood exactly why. And IIRC nowadays more laptops are sold than desktops. I've yet to see a laptop with middle button, too. If any laptop designer is reading this: I would very much prefer having a middle mouse button. IMO that would be much more useful than all those extra buttons for e-mail, browser etc. Of course, people can just attach a proper mouse to their laptop if/when they use it for serious graphical work. Which is a good idea anyway; a touchpad is way too imprecise. If your laptop has built-in blutooth adapter, I suggest you get a blutooth mouse, this way you'll be able to use it without having to attach it to anything. Ah of course; I had been looking for a wireless mouse, but I was only looking at the more traditional kind. Bluetooth would be more practical indeed. My laptop doesn't have it built-in, but I already use a USB Bluetooth adapter for other things. I don't know why I didn't think of that before :) Anyway, it's not that big a deal to me. Perhaps I shouldn't even have posted my ramblings: things get blown out of proportion way too rapidly on Internet (not that I'm accusing you of that, just speaking in general). -- If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants. -- Isaac Newton Roel Schroeven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all? (was: Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults)
Von: "Alex Fernandez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Speaking about house cleaning. Let me ask why does this person still > hold a @gimp.org email address? Come to think of it, there's probably no reason why anyone should use a gimp.org address for arbitrary messages to the mailing lists. They are good for automated things like the bugs list or could be used for stricly project-releated stuff like release announcements or other specific roles - ftpmaster, webmaster and such. > It makes some people (like me) take these messages seriously at first. > If it was e.g. some @gmail.com address, her opinions would be taken > at face value, i.e. worse than worthless. This problem would be solved then as well - all mails from a gimp.org address would be serious and important; all other messages will (have to) be taken at face value. HTH, Michael -- NEU: GMX DSL Sofort-Start-Set - blitzschnell ins Internet! Echte DSL-Flatrate ab 0,- Euro* http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 11:03:48AM +0200, Alex Fernandez wrote: > >i cannot give any kind of > >logical reason for it and probably you should do the right thing and > >trash this suggestion of mine. > > Yes, it is the usual email pollution. You're guilty of the same. Looking at the archives, you speak up far more often to criticize others than to contribute constructively. Heed your own words and stop being a hypocrite. -Yosh ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
i understand that it goes against the current thinking of getting things to work on a computer This odd way of thinking: getting things done. [worthless-chatter-snip] i cannot give any kind of logical reason for it and probably you should do the right thing and trash this suggestion of mine. Yes, it is the usual email pollution. and this suggestion is much more like house cleaning than anything else. Speaking about house cleaning. Let me ask why does this person still hold a @gimp.org email address? It makes some people (like me) take these messages seriously at first. If it was e.g. some @gmail.com address, her opinions would be taken at face value, i.e. worse than worthless. thank you everyone for at least considering the suggestion, You do not ever give up, do you? Alex Fernández. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
Hi, On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 19:37 +0200, Roel Schroeven wrote: > It seems that more and more applications start to rely more or less > heavily on middle mouse buttons and/or scrollwheels (Gimp and Google > Earth come to mind), which is a bit annoying as my laptop is my main > machine. GIMP doesn't rely on the mouse wheel for anything. It uses it if it's there and that's what the mouse wheel controller is doing. Carol is making a fuss out of nothing. Just ignore her. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 10:46:00PM +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > Carol, actually, I don't understand your reasoning behind this > question. If we disable this controller by default, the very next > thing that will happen is gazillion of users asking why mousewheel > scrolling doesn't work. No matter how many times you will explain it > in mailing lists, on forums,in documentation -- that will just happen. > And guess who will suffer from spending their precious time on > explanations... > i understand that it goes against the current thinking of getting things to work on a computer without the user needing to know what they have or what other options they have or how to set a powerful piece of software to work for the things they have and all the different ways that one can personalize it. then there is that other thing about GIMP where you do not need the mouse wheel to scroll. then there is the other thing that perhaps the next round of forum people need something to talk about. complain about and feel the need to fix. then, there is the chance that if you cannot open the preferences and enable things yourself, that this application might be out of their reach in too many other ways as well. > IMNSHO, removing this setting from defaults should happen only if it > seriously breaks usability for "wheeless" users or even makes work in > GIMP absolutely impossible for them. And this is not that case, right? > this makes so much sense. logically and intuitively and all of those things that should matter. where this does not make sense to me is in how software is abused. i sense that this 'default' is being used to muddle the inner workings of the gimp developers. this sense i have -- i cannot give any kind of logical reason for it and probably you should do the right thing and trash this suggestion of mine. even with this irrational and undefinable feeling i have about this one default in particular -- i can live with it. what i am very very very unhappy with -- and this is about the world itself -- something is very very very wrong if almost everyone has to work anonymously. this suggestion has more to do with this problem than with any problem gimp has. and this suggestion is much more like house cleaning than anything else. thank you everyone for at least considering the suggestion, Carol M. Spears aka carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
On 9/21/06, Roel Schroeven wrote: OTOH, touchpads and pointing sticks on laptops don't have scroll wheels. Sorry to disappoint you, but here on my ASUS M6N there are two ways to emulate scrolling: 1. Middle touchpad up/down button. 2. Right and bottom borders of the touchpad surface. Carol, actually, I don't understand your reasoning behind this question. If we disable this controller by default, the very next thing that will happen is gazillion of users asking why mousewheel scrolling doesn't work. No matter how many times you will explain it in mailing lists, on forums,in documentation -- that will just happen. And guess who will suffer from spending their precious time on explanations... IMNSHO, removing this setting from defaults should happen only if it seriously breaks usability for "wheeless" users or even makes work in GIMP absolutely impossible for them. And this is not that case, right? Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: requesting a change in the defaults
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef: On Wednesday, September 20, 2006, 20:46:24, Carol Spears wrote: is this such a common mouse and are the users of such a mouse unable to set the default themselves? Unless you're used to IBM workstations (or old Macs), then yes, wheel mice are common - I bought my first one about 10 years ago, and I haven't seen wheelless mice sold in a long time (except for Mac users). OTOH, touchpads and pointing sticks on laptops don't have scroll wheels. They often even don't feature middle mouse buttons, though I have never understood exactly why. And IIRC nowadays more laptops are sold than desktops. It seems that more and more applications start to rely more or less heavily on middle mouse buttons and/or scrollwheels (Gimp and Google Earth come to mind), which is a bit annoying as my laptop is my main machine. Of course, people can just attach a proper mouse to their laptop if/when they use it for serious graphical work. Which is a good idea anyway; a touchpad is way too imprecise. -- If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants. -- Isaac Newton Roel Schroeven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
