Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On 09 Jul 2001 18:09:56 +0200 Mail from: Rebecca ..__. . _..___ .._... ._.__.. _ ..__ _._ ._.__.._ __ . _ RW> If you know what all this does, would you rough a help file we could RW> add RW> to the system? Of course check what is in there already.. someone RW> might RW> have explained it. but i dont think so. I don't see it in an older RW> version of the dialogs directory. It would be nice to have a file RW> explaining the options in the jpeg save dialog. help/C/filters/jpeg.sgml ;) s y n g i n syngin [at] gimp [dot] org syngin [at] gimp [dot] no =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= s l a c k w a r e ยท l i n u x ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
If you know what all this does, would you rough a help file we could add to the system? Of course check what is in there already.. someone might have explained it. but i dont think so. I don't see it in an older version of the dialogs directory. It would be nice to have a file explaining the options in the jpeg save dialog. On 21 Jun 2001 11:37:32 +0200, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 12:28:30PM +0300, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: > >I am more concerned about the all other options on the > >JPEG dialog, I never use anything else than the compression slider. Of > >course this is partly because the plugin used to crash if I moved the other > >ones .. :) > > I forwarded a received patch for making the dialog tabbed once (and in > general cleaning it up), but it never got accepted. > > >I personally have no clue what "Restart markers" or DCT method of "Fast > >integer" means in practice. So maybe someone who knows can look into this, > >and try to think what options are really necessary, and if there is really a > >point in showing some of them to the user, how to label it so you dont need > >to be a member of the Join Photographic Experts Group to know how to use the > >save dialog :-) > > Good point -- now personally, I think I use everything except Restart > markers nearly _every_ time I use the JPEG filter, but then I added this > crap ;-) > > /* Steinar */ > -- > Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ > ___ > Gimp-developer mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 12:28:30PM +0300, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: > I personally have no clue what "Restart markers" or DCT method of "Fast > integer" means in practice. So maybe someone who knows can look into this, > and try to think what options are really necessary, and if there is really a > point in showing some of them to the user, how to label it so you dont need > to be a member of the Join Photographic Experts Group to know how to use the > save dialog :-) Education day! Restart markers make JPEG data more robust -- asking for more frequent restart markers will make less of the image corrupt if somehow the file is damaged. For day-to-day web use set it to the minimum because of course the markers increase size and small is beautiful. DCT method is a libjpeg specific option which chooses an algorithm for calculating the discrete cosine transform, depending on your hardware the floating point might be faster or slower - for big images you might try playing with this to decrease turn-around time. The default is OK on most PCs. > And yes, I am even a geek. There are users who are not. Gimp has a lot of > these obscure things, for example the TIFF save dialog: [skipped] > Now, I dont even know if there are any cases when you want to use a certain > setting, but if there is, it might be good to explain it a bit here somehow? If you don't use the right setting and/ or will not load the TIFF, usually making wild claims like "This is not a TIFF" or just crashing doesn't bother to tell you which setting to use because they don't expect you to use any software except from and doesn't tell you because the Intern didn't finish documenting it. Gimp cannot do anything about this, and all I can do is tell people to avoid TIFF unless it is absolutely the only solution short of rolling their own file format. > Also, speaking of TIFF plugin, if the LZW saving is not supported anymore, > it should be taken out as an option, instead have a small text label below > the choices saying what the popup dialog says: "Note: LZW compression is not > supported because of Unisys patent problems." or something. The patent problem is in libtiff. At libtiff compile time users who have a license from Unisys, or say that they don't need one will be given the option of including a working LZW codec in their build. It is not possible, right up until that dialog appears, to detect whether the user's libtiff does or does not include LZW. To a libtiff using app there is no difference between "Real LZW codec" and "LZW pseudo-codec which displays an error" -- Gimp only knows that an error occurred. Now - the material point of this thread. Yes, I would like to introduce an "Advanced..." option or setting and some way to configure file plug-ins without actually loading/ saving a file, like in PSP I think. Nick. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 11:40:53AM +0200, thus said Sven Neumann: > IMHO any web designer should have a clue what file sizes are tolerable and > should probably have a sheet of paper on his desk mapping file sizes to > download speeds at a bunch of standard bandwidths. We shouldn't clutter the > dialog with this new feature especially since it will give the impression > that these numbers are real even though they can only give a rough estimation. > > The feature might make sense in a Web Export plug-in which is something I'd > like to see for next generation GIMP. A Web Export plug-in should give > side-by-side comparisons of different formats at different compression levels > and since it will become a complex dialog anyway, the new feature might make > sense here. The average user is not even interested in putting his picture up > on a web-server, so we shouldn't put too much web-related stuff into standard > file plug-ins. I think it makes sense this way. A "Export to web" plugin would also be useful in suggesting which format to use for the image, by showing all alternatives and file sizes side by side. The download size information IS useful in a way (I would have lost the piece of paper anyway just when I'd need it :) but I agree this is the right place to put it in. Other than that, the jpeg saving plugin *could* have the advanced button or tab to hide the stuff that is useful to you if you are "in the Know"(tm) :) > For Gimp-1.4, the common functionality of save and load plug-ins should go > into a special library so all the plug-ins have to do is implement the > loading and saving of the respective file format. Stuff like preview, size > calculation etc. should go into the library so all file plug-ins get a > common look and feel. Yes. Also so we can plug a gnome-vfs compile-time option to the library, and then (after I finish bugging the hackers to write a ssh method for gnome-vfs) I can just save images directly to my webserver, for example. That is something very cool I am looking forward to. Tuomas -- .---> [EMAIL PROTECTED].|\,/| [EMAIL PROTECTED] <-. +> www.ximian.com - ()-@@ , tigert.gimp.org <+ `-> art director , `--')/ a gimp artist <---' ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 10:48:16AM +0100, Roel Schroeven wrote: >What about a button "Advanced options", which toggles the visibility of >the advanced options? The initial state can then be specified in gimprc. That might work too, but the tabbed approach has the advantage that it also makes the dialog box look and work better on smaller screens. /* Steinar */ -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
--- "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 12:28:30PM +0300, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: > >I am more concerned about the all other options on the > >JPEG dialog, I never use anything else than the compression slider. Of > >course this is partly because the plugin used to crash if I moved the > other > >ones .. :) > > I forwarded a received patch for making the dialog tabbed once (and in > general cleaning it up), but it never got accepted. What about a button "Advanced options", which toggles the visibility of the advanced options? The initial state can then be specified in gimprc. Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
Hi, Tuomas Kuosmanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > So, I want to know how much time is necessary for loading > > > the images which is saved by jpeg or other file type. > > > It's useful to show loading time in jpeg saving dialog. > > I agree too, this is useful. I know it is not exact science, but it at least > gives you a rough estimate on what kind of loading times we are talking > about with that image. Of course the webmaster should have brains to figure > out these things. IMHO any web designer should have a clue what file sizes are tolerable and should probably have a sheet of paper on his desk mapping file sizes to download speeds at a bunch of standard bandwidths. We shouldn't clutter the dialog with this new feature especially since it will give the impression that these numbers are real even though they can only give a rough estimation. The feature might make sense in a Web Export plug-in which is something I'd like to see for next generation GIMP. A Web Export plug-in should give side-by-side comparisons of different formats at different compression levels and since it will become a complex dialog anyway, the new feature might make sense here. The average user is not even interested in putting his picture up on a web-server, so we shouldn't put too much web-related stuff into standard file plug-ins. For Gimp-1.4, the common functionality of save and load plug-ins should go into a special library so all the plug-ins have to do is implement the loading and saving of the respective file format. Stuff like preview, size calculation etc. should go into the library so all file plug-ins get a common look and feel. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 12:28:30PM +0300, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: >I am more concerned about the all other options on the >JPEG dialog, I never use anything else than the compression slider. Of >course this is partly because the plugin used to crash if I moved the other >ones .. :) I forwarded a received patch for making the dialog tabbed once (and in general cleaning it up), but it never got accepted. >I personally have no clue what "Restart markers" or DCT method of "Fast >integer" means in practice. So maybe someone who knows can look into this, >and try to think what options are really necessary, and if there is really a >point in showing some of them to the user, how to label it so you dont need >to be a member of the Join Photographic Experts Group to know how to use the >save dialog :-) Good point -- now personally, I think I use everything except Restart markers nearly _every_ time I use the JPEG filter, but then I added this crap ;-) /* Steinar */ -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 11:01:54AM +0100, thus said Austin Donnelly: > On Wednesday, 20 Jun 2001, Iccii wrote: > > > I'm using the GIMP to creat image files for my web site. > > So, I want to know how much time is necessary for loading > > the images which is saved by jpeg or other file type. > > It's useful to show loading time in jpeg saving dialog. > > See attachment file if you interested in it. > > Its a nice patch. I think it should get into the development CVS tree > (but probably not the 1.2 stable branch, since this is definitely a > new feature). I agree too, this is useful. I know it is not exact science, but it at least gives you a rough estimate on what kind of loading times we are talking about with that image. Of course the webmaster should have brains to figure out these things. I am more concerned about the all other options on the JPEG dialog, I never use anything else than the compression slider. Of course this is partly because the plugin used to crash if I moved the other ones .. :) I rarely see anything else but compression on other programs, do we really need those, or is it possible to simplify it by doing something like this: Quality: [-[|||]] 75% Image size vs. quality: (*) I want better image quality ( ) I want smaller files, even if it may look worse Now the above probably makes no sense as a real life example, but I really think we could improve the dialog by making it more task-oriented. I personally have no clue what "Restart markers" or DCT method of "Fast integer" means in practice. So maybe someone who knows can look into this, and try to think what options are really necessary, and if there is really a point in showing some of them to the user, how to label it so you dont need to be a member of the Join Photographic Experts Group to know how to use the save dialog :-) And yes, I am even a geek. There are users who are not. Gimp has a lot of these obscure things, for example the TIFF save dialog: Compression: (*) None ( ) LZW ( ) Pack Bits ( ) Deflate ( ) JPEG Now, I dont even know if there are any cases when you want to use a certain setting, but if there is, it might be good to explain it a bit here somehow? Also, speaking of TIFF plugin, if the LZW saving is not supported anymore, it should be taken out as an option, instead have a small text label below the choices saying what the popup dialog says: "Note: LZW compression is not supported because of Unisys patent problems." or something. Tuomas -- .---> [EMAIL PROTECTED].|\,/| [EMAIL PROTECTED] <-. +> www.ximian.com - ()-@@ , tigert.gimp.org <+ `-> art director , `--')/ a gimp artist <---' ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On 20 Jun 2001, at 12:18, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 12:21:57PM +0200, Branko Collin wrote: > >What would be nice though, and I hope I am not asking for something > >that already exists, is a web export filter that shows previews and > >file sizes of the same image in different formats. > > I've seen shareware programs for such things, and I considered > implementing it in GIMP once, but I wrote the JPEG previewing > functionality instead, which I find quite a lot cleaner and simpler to > use (now, the _code_ sucks, but... ;-) ). :-) The reason for comparing images in different file formats side by side, is that on the web, size matters. Although for most images it is fairly easy to predict which is going to be smaller, PNG or JPEG (or GIF or JPEG, if that is your thing), there is still a sizeable categorie of images for which you want to be able to compare, especially if image quality is also a matter of consideration). A good web designer will always try out the two different file formats for every image, and a comparison tool helps make a huge time saving there. -- branko collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 12:21:57PM +0200, Branko Collin wrote: >What would be nice though, and I hope I am not asking for something >that already exists, is a web export filter that shows previews and >file sizes of the same image in different formats. I've seen shareware programs for such things, and I considered implementing it in GIMP once, but I wrote the JPEG previewing functionality instead, which I find quite a lot cleaner and simpler to use (now, the _code_ sucks, but... ;-) ). :-) /* Steinar */ -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On 20 Jun 2001, at 11:54, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 06:45:23PM +0900, Iccii wrote: > >I'm using the GIMP to creat image files for my web site. > >So, I want to know how much time is necessary for loading > >the images which is saved by jpeg or other file type. > >It's useful to show loading time in jpeg saving dialog. > >See attachment file if you interested in it. > > IMHO, the JPEG dialog box is cluttered up enough as it is. In > addition, predicting loading speed is a much more difficult factor > than just taking the theoretical maximum of a line -- don't forget > that one usually loads a HTML file along with the image, for instance, > and one often has multiple images per page. In addition, server load > etc. could also influence this. Thus, I don't think such a number > makes too much sense :-) I agree. There are too many variables influencing load time on the web. Any good web design reference will tell you what size to limit your files to. What would be nice though, and I hope I am not asking for something that already exists, is a web export filter that shows previews and file sizes of the same image in different formats. -- branko collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On Wednesday, 20 Jun 2001, Iccii wrote: > I'm using the GIMP to creat image files for my web site. > So, I want to know how much time is necessary for loading > the images which is saved by jpeg or other file type. > It's useful to show loading time in jpeg saving dialog. > See attachment file if you interested in it. Its a nice patch. I think it should get into the development CVS tree (but probably not the 1.2 stable branch, since this is definitely a new feature). Just one thing: 14.4Kbps means 14.4 * 1000 bits per second, not 14.4 * 1024. Similarly, 10Mbps is 10 * 1000 * 1000 bits per second, not 10 * 1024 * 1024. 1024 is only involved when addresses are, ie for sizes of buffers, memory, files. Never when talking about bandwidth. Austin ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
Hello, I'm using the GIMP to creat image files for my web site. So, I want to know how much time is necessary for loading the images which is saved by jpeg or other file type. It's useful to show loading time in jpeg saving dialog. See attachment file if you interested in it. Thanks. G'bye. Takashi Kido, or Iccii [EMAIL PROTECTED] jpeg-show-cost-time.diff
Re: [Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 06:45:23PM +0900, Iccii wrote: >Hello, >I'm using the GIMP to creat image files for my web site. >So, I want to know how much time is necessary for loading >the images which is saved by jpeg or other file type. >It's useful to show loading time in jpeg saving dialog. >See attachment file if you interested in it. IMHO, the JPEG dialog box is cluttered up enough as it is. In addition, predicting loading speed is a much more difficult factor than just taking the theoretical maximum of a line -- don't forget that one usually loads a HTML file along with the image, for instance, and one often has multiple images per page. In addition, server load etc. could also influence this. Thus, I don't think such a number makes too much sense :-) /* Steinar */ -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] show jpeg preview time
Hello, I'm using the GIMP to creat image files for my web site. So, I want to know how much time is necessary for loading the images which is saved by jpeg or other file type. It's useful to show loading time in jpeg saving dialog. See attachment file if you interested in it. Thanks. G'bye. Takashi Kido, or Iccii [EMAIL PROTECTED] jpeg-show-cost-time.diff
