Space key border area ideas

2001-02-04 Thread Guillermo S. Romero / Familia Romero

= Space key =

The other mails about Space key, zooms and such made me think. What
about:

- Space: slow cursor, if doable. Lets say 50% normal speed, or user
configurable. Working as modifier, it slows while you push it. Or
maybe a toggle. Dunno. :] If not doable, dunno what... show menu? Any
other ideas?

- Alt + Space: swap tools. You have Current and Alternative (you
guessed, Alt key), hitting it makes swap the places. If you choose
another tool via menus / keys / buttons it becomes Current, and the
previous one becomes Alternative.

- Ctrl + Space: relaunch last filter (control values, reason for
Ctrl).

- Shift + Space: repeat last filter (more, bigger, reason for Shift).

I think they sound fine. No, I am not going to code them, but I would
like to see them in TODO or IDEAS, if nobody opposes. Some are as easy
as changing the bindings (I am using last two ones, and would nice if
Gimp would forget the defaults, but it shows defaults and mines), but
the others require more work, swap requires an Alternative slot and
some changes in functions (sounds easy to code if you know Gimp guts,
or maybe in 1.3 rework), and slow down seems complex to me (maybe it
is a stupid thing, who knows).

= Extra border area =

The swap tools remembered me of when I paint in real world, I end
holding tools in the other hand, or "biting" them. And I also paint
the protectors (newspapers, adhesive tape) if I need to test
something, discard paint, start outside final area or in general do
something that will not appear in final job. So what about adding a
configurable area around layers?

It would be like when you zoom out, you start viewing inactive area,
but with two details:

- the area always exist, even if at 1600% you always get the extra
separating image size from rulers when you move near border. It will
mean a bigger window if at 100% and showing all. As user should be
able to configure it, he can use from 0 (same as current) to a nice
value (100 pix? 200?). Should be changable on the fly, if possible.

- paint affects it too, but disappears after a given time (user
configurable inactivity time). It only shows on screen, does not
affect layer painting (or maybe yes, should be investigated if it
makes some ops easier, like Smudge). Filters ignore it, when you
change zoom, view or something it can disappear without problems. It
is temp, you can use it, but do not expect it to be true paint.

When you are trying to see if layers are inside or outside it will
help. Also when you want to start a stroke near the border. And the
bigger the image, the better cos the other option is to start with a
bigger image than needed, and crop; supposing you want A pix of
border, it means you save A * A * 4 + A * xsize * 2 + A * ysize *
2. Or to just test how much pressure you need without having a scratch
image.

No idea about how to implement it, or if it easy or complex. But would
be nice, even in the most basic aspect (paint never appear, but at
least you have the space to move the cursor and start paiting outside
when zoomed in). :]

= End =

Thanks for reading both ideas.

GSR
 



Re: Space key border area ideas

2001-02-04 Thread Alan

 - Alt + Space: swap tools. You have Current and Alternative (you
 guessed, Alt key), hitting it makes swap the places. If you choose
 another tool via menus / keys / buttons it becomes Current, and the
 previous one becomes Alternative.

I really like this idea, as it eliminates the need for the developers to
anticipate what the users will want for the alternative key.  No more thinking
"If only CTRL brought up [random tool] instead of [other random tool] with the
paintbrush!"  User configurability is what makes the GIMP awsome, and the more
the better (without overwhelming the user that is).

 It would be like when you zoom out, you start viewing inactive area,
 but with two details:
 
 - the area always exist, even if at 1600% you always get the extra
 separating image size from rulers when you move near border. It will
 mean a bigger window if at 100% and showing all. As user should be
 able to configure it, he can use from 0 (same as current) to a nice
 value (100 pix? 200?). Should be changable on the fly, if possible.
 
 - paint affects it too, but disappears after a given time (user
 configurable inactivity time). It only shows on screen, does not
 affect layer painting (or maybe yes, should be investigated if it
 makes some ops easier, like Smudge). Filters ignore it, when you
 change zoom, view or something it can disappear without problems. It
 is temp, you can use it, but do not expect it to be true paint.
[snip]

This sounds a lot like a temporary layer.  I'm thinking, why restrict yourself
the the edges of the canvas, why not see how a color looks right where it will
be.  Of course, this is also a lot like just trying the color and then hitting
^Z or something.

Interesting ideas though.

--
Arcterex [EMAIL PROTECTED]   -==-   http://arcterex.net
"I used to herd dairy cows. Now I herd lusers. Apart from the isolation, I
think I preferred the cows. They were better conversation, easier to milk, and
if they annoyed me enough, I could shoot them and eat them." -Rodger Donaldson



Re: Space key border area ideas

2001-02-04 Thread the Loial Raven

i like both ideas, but the second one is what i realy realy like...

Please, somebody impliment this... this is about what i wanted a couple
months back, but with more... the extra edges i'm starting to realy realy
go crazy without... with the gimp 1.2 i picked up a week or so back on
debian, if you go over the edge while using a tablet, it draws a straight
line to the upper left hand side, and it does this for every single point
you cross, so you get this deep streak...
Since i normaly work on images that are larger than my desktop, i often am
zoomed in... so there is no boarder... as well, under any of the selection
tools, your cursor goes out of the drawing area, you loses all of the
selection, well, except when using the bezier select...

The idea of allowing you to draw on the outside boarder is a neat one... i
like it... maybe make it adjustable to it's size(even better if it was on
the fly... might use the enlarge canvas or something to do this) and the
time or method of erasing it... so if you wanted, you could call one
hotkey and it erases it all, or wait 2 minutes... or wait till the layer,
zoom, or pan is changed...

hmmph... i wish i was a good enough programmer to do this myself... but
anyhow, if anyone else can do this, it would be greatly apreciated.

   Matthew Peters

On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Guillermo S. Romero / Familia Romero wrote:

snip
 = Extra border area =
 
 The swap tools remembered me of when I paint in real world, I end
 holding tools in the other hand, or "biting" them. And I also paint
 the protectors (newspapers, adhesive tape) if I need to test
 something, discard paint, start outside final area or in general do
 something that will not appear in final job. So what about adding a
 configurable area around layers?
 
 It would be like when you zoom out, you start viewing inactive area,
 but with two details:
 
 - the area always exist, even if at 1600% you always get the extra
 separating image size from rulers when you move near border. It will
 mean a bigger window if at 100% and showing all. As user should be
 able to configure it, he can use from 0 (same as current) to a nice
 value (100 pix? 200?). Should be changable on the fly, if possible.
 
 - paint affects it too, but disappears after a given time (user
 configurable inactivity time). It only shows on screen, does not
 affect layer painting (or maybe yes, should be investigated if it
 makes some ops easier, like Smudge). Filters ignore it, when you
 change zoom, view or something it can disappear without problems. It
 is temp, you can use it, but do not expect it to be true paint.
 
 When you are trying to see if layers are inside or outside it will
 help. Also when you want to start a stroke near the border. And the
 bigger the image, the better cos the other option is to start with a
 bigger image than needed, and crop; supposing you want A pix of
 border, it means you save A * A * 4 + A * xsize * 2 + A * ysize *
 2. Or to just test how much pressure you need without having a scratch
 image.
 
 No idea about how to implement it, or if it easy or complex. But would
 be nice, even in the most basic aspect (paint never appear, but at
 least you have the space to move the cursor and start paiting outside
 when zoomed in). :]
 
 = End =
 
 Thanks for reading both ideas.
 
 GSR
  
/snip






Re: Space key border area ideas

2001-02-04 Thread Guillermo S. Romero / Familia Romero

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-02-04 at 1206.22 -0800):
 This sounds a lot like a temporary layer.  I'm thinking, why
 restrict yourself the the edges of the canvas, why not see how a
 color looks right where it will be.  Of course, this is also a lot
 like just trying the color and then hitting ^Z or something.

Well, the thing about testing colors is a plus (I use Ctrl + Z a lot,
as you say), the point is about being able to point borders nicely.
How many times people found that they can not use a tool near the
border cos their image is too big to fit on screen (zoom or big
image)?

Graphical explanation:
- new image, small, ie 256 * 256.
- choose paint brush tool, bird brush.
- resize window (make bigger) so you see the extra area.
- start painting outside, move inside working area, see how you can
get some birds appear partially (tails, heads, less than half brush).
- try with an image bigger than your screen, or the original one at
big zoom. No way to get less than half birds near borders.

Choosing a circular brushes also shows the effect, look how hard is to
get paint near borders that does not show your brush is circular (bird
is just a even better example). It also happens with other tools, like
gradient or lazzo ones, cos you can not start outside working area if
there is no extra area.

And not, I am not asking about all inside big window like PS, just
about some configurable extra space arround. And if possible (aka not
complex), to show paint there too (the temp layer you say).

GSR
 



Re: Space key border area ideas

2001-02-04 Thread Tuomas Kuosmanen

On Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 01:24:18PM -0800, thus said the Loial Raven:
 i like both ideas, but the second one is what i realy realy like...
 
 Please, somebody impliment this... this is about what i wanted a couple
 months back, but with more... the extra edges i'm starting to realy realy
 go crazy without... with the gimp 1.2 i picked up a week or so back on
 debian, if you go over the edge while using a tablet, it draws a straight
 line to the upper left hand side, and it does this for every single point
 you cross, so you get this deep streak...

This sounds like a bug that needs fixing. Is this Intuos? What XFree
version? Etc. Anyone else see something like this?

 Since i normaly work on images that are larger than my desktop, i often am
 zoomed in... so there is no boarder... as well, under any of the selection
 tools, your cursor goes out of the drawing area, you loses all of the
 selection, well, except when using the bezier select...
 
 The idea of allowing you to draw on the outside boarder is a neat one... i
 like it... maybe make it adjustable to it's size(even better if it was on
 the fly... might use the enlarge canvas or something to do this) and the
 time or method of erasing it... so if you wanted, you could call one
 hotkey and it erases it all, or wait 2 minutes... or wait till the layer,
 zoom, or pan is changed...

Hmm. Why just not have another image as a "scratch paper"? It would be less
trouble anyway I think. And you could have it where you want. The border
thing sounds like a lot of trouble for little real gain.

What comes to the space thing, I'd like to see the hold spacedrag - pan
image be implemented in gimp as well as all over Gnome (gnome print for
example) It is used pretty all over Mac and Windows, and I dont know why it
shouldnt be also for Gimp. I know we pan with mouse button 2, but space-drag
is kinda nice too. I need to use illustrator for vector graphics, so I get
all confused every time I switch apps :)

Best wishes,

Tuomas

-- 

.---  [EMAIL PROTECTED].|\,/|  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -.
+  www.ximian.com -  ()-@@  ,   tigert.gimp.org  +
`-  art director   ,  `--')/   a gimp artist  ---'





Re: Space key border area ideas

2001-02-04 Thread the Loial Raven



On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:

 On Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 01:24:18PM -0800, thus said the Loial Raven:
  i like both ideas, but the second one is what i realy realy like...
  
  Please, somebody impliment this... this is about what i wanted a couple
  months back, but with more... the extra edges i'm starting to realy realy
  go crazy without... with the gimp 1.2 i picked up a week or so back on
  debian, if you go over the edge while using a tablet, it draws a straight
  line to the upper left hand side, and it does this for every single point
  you cross, so you get this deep streak...
 
 This sounds like a bug that needs fixing. Is this Intuos? What XFree
 version? Etc. Anyone else see something like this?

XFree 4.0.1... with a wacom artpad II - KT-0405-R

the edges losing my selections is because the tool is changed when i leave
the drawing area... it changes to the core-pointer briefly...


 
  Since i normaly work on images that are larger than my desktop, i often am
  zoomed in... so there is no boarder... as well, under any of the selection
  tools, your cursor goes out of the drawing area, you loses all of the
  selection, well, except when using the bezier select...
  
  The idea of allowing you to draw on the outside boarder is a neat one... i
  like it... maybe make it adjustable to it's size(even better if it was on
  the fly... might use the enlarge canvas or something to do this) and the
  time or method of erasing it... so if you wanted, you could call one
  hotkey and it erases it all, or wait 2 minutes... or wait till the layer,
  zoom, or pan is changed...
 
 Hmm. Why just not have another image as a "scratch paper"? It would be less
 trouble anyway I think. And you could have it where you want. The border
 thing sounds like a lot of trouble for little real gain.

the scratchpaper is compleatly useless unless it has the backgrounds of
the origional behind it, for me at least... i normaly draw on lotsa 
layers, using layers farther back as guides and scetches... even doing the
accual image in multiple layers to allow easy editing of different
sections... but it's only when painting and selecting it gets very
anoying...

As another example... i sometimes use the shapeburst blend to make
heightfields, if the heighfield extends past the screen, it is cut off,
and is defaulted to the lowest point(making it so the heighfield is
effected by the sides of the screen) by selecting offscrean, you could
negate this and make full heightmaps without that problem...

Uh... am i making sence?

i guess the bigest problem is when doing a freehand select on a very large
image... one that you have to zoom out to get any edge on the
screen... when your zoomed out, the freehand select becomes rough and
pixelated, but if you try selecting something on the edge of the screen,
as soon as the tool leaves the drawing area, it closes off the selection,
making it rather useless, and you have to start over.
the bezier select does remedy this by allowing accurate
selections(non-pixelated) even when zoomed out, but it's not as good for
very rough patterns or ultra-complex ones.

As well, if your airbrushing, if you want to airbrush just off of the
drawable area, your out of luck... i would use this for doing boarders or
the like, where you want it always fading to the edge.

hmm... a few thoughts on how this can be done...
in preferences, you could set a default size of the tab around the
drawing... this area is saved in an xcf format image, but no other ones.
It could have a line around it like the edge of the normal image, and can
have a transparent background in that area... what it could be is just a
larger image, with a little bit of information in the header(or a hidden
peice in the file) that declares how large an area this is. if wished, you
could also make it auto-erase itself based on a few different
changes(active layer, pan/zoom, time, etc.) based on how the user would
like it...

of course, all of this could be just defaulted to 0 in size, and never
update, so it wouldn't change how the program normaly acted...

 What comes to the space thing, I'd like to see the hold spacedrag - pan
 image be implemented in gimp as well as all over Gnome (gnome print for
 example) It is used pretty all over Mac and Windows, and I dont know why it
 shouldnt be also for Gimp. I know we pan with mouse button 2, but space-drag
 is kinda nice too. I need to use illustrator for vector graphics, so I get
 all confused every time I switch apps :)
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Tuomas
 
 -- 
 
 .---  [EMAIL PROTECTED].|\,/|  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -.
 +  www.ximian.com -  ()-@@  ,   tigert.gimp.org  +
 `-  art director   ,  `--')/   a gimp artist  ---'
 
 
 

i like the space-bar ideas... i probobly wouldn't use it, since i like the
mouse button pan though.

well, have fun
   Matthew Peters