Re: [Gimp-gui] Toolbox Groups

2015-10-16 Thread Elle Stone

On 10/16/2015 03:31 PM, Andrew Pullins wrote:


No matter how much I like the current UI, and no matter how much
Andrew doesn't like it, neither of us can speak for "most users".
That would require a very carefully done survey, which likely would
reveal that there's no such thing as "most GIMP users". But perhaps
there are "exemplar" types of users and workflows, with different UI
preferences.


See everything you pointed out is exactly why I love GIMP.  GIMP enables
you to make your own workflow.  You want multi window mode go for it,
no? single window is there two. want the tool box on the right? want
dialogs on top of each other, beside each other, blow or beside the
toolbox?  don't like the tools that are showing by default or the order
it is in? change it to fit your needs.

You would be horrified to work in my environment as im am sure I would
in yours.  This feature would make my workflow way better and the best
part is you don't have to use grouped tools if you don't want to.  I
have my suggestions on default groups based upon how I would set it up
if this feature were to be implemented if the community were to like the
default.  Obviously there are those who do not so I think it would be
best not to set default groups.

I am fine with that.  But let me modify my toolbox the way I want it. I
am going to do that anyway and this would make my workflow even better
for me.



It might not seem that way, but I think just about all of your 
suggestions are well-thought out and would work nicely to solve various 
problems with arranging the available screen real estate for 
accomplishing various editing tasks. It was the "most users" part that 
was troublesome. Which combined with some of Alexandre's comments on the 
Toolbox has motivated me to reiterate that surely some people are very 
happy with the current setup.


If someone were to make a survey on what works well for which users, 
maybe the very first questions should be "What's the screen diameter, 
what is the aspect ratio and number of pixels, and is the screen 
freestanding or attached to a tablet or laptop, and are there multiple 
screens, or just one?" Because what works well for a small screen is 
probably rather different from what works well for a large screen.


The next question might be "Do you prefer single or multiple window 
mode, and why?" This seems to be a "personal style" sort of choice.


Followed by "What editing tasks do you most often use GIMP for? What's 
your typical workflow?"


Followed by questions like "What tools from the toolbox do you use most 
often, and which ones do you seldom or never use? Which operations do 
you access through the drop-down/right-click menus, and which ones via 
shortcuts?"


And (perhaps including a screenshot), "Which dialogs do you regularly 
keep open, and which ones do you seldom or never use? How do you arrange 
the dialogs and Toolbox on the screen?"


What questions do you think might be good to ask in a survey, if the 
goal is to more efficiently and effectively accomodate various workflows 
on various display screens? Hopefully without accidentally throwing out 
what currently works well for at least some users (maybe the users least 
likely to subscribe to a mailing list about the GIMP UI are the users 
who like the current UI).


Re: [Gimp-gui] Toolbox Groups

2015-10-16 Thread Andrew Pullins
>
> Hmm, see, none of us is "most users".
>
> On the one hand, I can see how Andrew's suggestions make sense for some
> people and some workflows.
>
> On the other hand, personally I would be horrified if I had to use a
> Toolbox that works the way Andrew is suggesting. I have all seven selection
> tools lined up, ready for use, along with almost all of the other tools
> that can be put in the toolbox, and that works really well. And I find the
> LibreOffice UI to be one of the worst UIs I've ever had to deal with.
>
> People who like things the way they are usually don't feel motivated to
> speak up and say so.
>
> I like the GIMP Toolbox just the way it is.
> I like being able to move the Toolbox around and resize it at will.
> I like having all the tools and my preferred dialogs in the Toolbox, and I
> like being able to pull a dialog out to stand on its own when I want to.
> I like working in Full Screen mode, with the ability to pull the Toolbox
> up only when needed, otherwise having it hidden behind the image.
> In my opinion, the people who put together the current GIMP UI did a
> totally outstanding job.
>
> No matter how much I like the current UI, and no matter how much Andrew
> doesn't like it, neither of us can speak for "most users". That would
> require a very carefully done survey, which likely would reveal that
> there's no such thing as "most GIMP users". But perhaps there are
> "exemplar" types of users and workflows, with different UI preferences.


See everything you pointed out is exactly why I love GIMP.  GIMP enables
you to make your own workflow.  You want multi window mode go for it, no?
single window is there two. want the tool box on the right? want dialogs on
top of each other, beside each other, blow or beside the toolbox?  don't
like the tools that are showing by default or the order it is in? change it
to fit your needs.

You would be horrified to work in my environment as im am sure I would in
yours.  This feature would make my workflow way better and the best part is
you don't have to use grouped tools if you don't want to.  I have my
suggestions on default groups based upon how I would set it up if this
feature were to be implemented if the community were to like the default.
Obviously there are those who do not so I think it would be best not to set
default groups.

I am fine with that.  But let me modify my toolbox the way I want it. I am
going to do that anyway and this would make my workflow even better for me.

--
Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Praise be unto God for giving us a way to live
with him.




  


Re: [Gimp-gui] Toolbox Groups

2015-10-15 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On 10/15/15, Andrew Pullins  wrote:

> To improve user experience I propose toolbox groups. Attached is an
> image showing how this could be done. In Preferences > Toolbox there
> would be a new folder button to add folder groups. Use the up and down
> arrows or Drag tool into folders to add them to groups.  when tools
> are selected they are displayed at the top of the tool group(in the
> Toolbox not the group menu). This feature would go nicely with the
> Toolbox Spacer feature request.

I'm afraid that this is another band-aid request.

It's true that the amount of tools keeps increasing. But many tools
could be effectively combined into one, e.g.:

1) Selection tools (we had a failed GSoC project on that).
2) Cage transform and N-Point tools.

Also, we already have Universal Transform Tool that could completely
replace standalone transformation tools, if it was given ability to
define exact transform values (there has been a lot of argument about
that in the past).

So, again, let's not go for band-aids as long as we can, please.

Alex


Re: [Gimp-gui] Toolbox Groups

2015-10-15 Thread Jehan

Hi,

On 2015-10-15 01:51, Andrew Pullins wrote:

Feature Request [1], attachment 313344 [2]

#User Story

As a user with a small vertical screen estate my toolbox pushes the
foreground & background color, active brush, pattern & gradient, and
active image down past the window. Depending on the screen size some
of the tools even get pushed down. To fix this I have to make the tool
box wider to fit more tools in the toolbox and even take away tools. A
wider tool box takes up room on my canvas which is the most important
dialog.

#Details

To improve user experience I propose toolbox groups. Attached is an
image showing how this could be done. In Preferences > Toolbox there
would be a new folder button to add folder groups. Use the up and down
arrows or Drag tool into folders to add them to groups. when tools are
selected they are displayed at the top of the tool group(in the
Toolbox not the group menu). This feature would go nicely with the
Toolbox Spacer feature request.


This is an interesting idea, but I wonder if we can't do better than 
this. It does not feel that efficient to me to basically have submenus 
on tools.
I'm wondering if some better user experience cannot be achieved to deal 
with the fact that GIMP has more and more tools (*), so now I'm waiting 
from inputs from you all. :-)


Jehan

(*) Of course one such idea could be to get rid of some tools, like I 
wish it were possible with the Unified Transform Tool (replacing other 
transform tools) if we could get better controls there!