Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
W dniu 28.08.2016 o 11:49, Eric Wong pisze: > Jakub Narębski wrote: >> W dniu 26.08.2016 o 08:15, Eric Wong pisze: >> >>> Not directly-related to the survey questions, but can you ensure >>> it's accessible to folks without JavaScript/graphics, and >>> perhaps also ensure it is on a host that is Tor-friendly? [..] >> A question: would it be better to have the whole survey one one >> large page, or have it split into pages (with fever questions >> per page)? > > I prefer single. One could get one page, take take time and let the > connection drop/fail, and send it over all in one go. With multiple > pages, one would have to reconnect for every POST. All right, I can make Git User's Survey 2016 to be on one page (at least the anonymous JavaScript-less channel). It turns out that there would be 40-42 questions in this year survey. Though I don't know how resilent Survs.com is for submitting survey results after connection drop/fail. *Editing* survey (which requires to be logged in, which is not needed for submitting survey), times out after inactivity. -- Jakub Narębski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
Jakub Narębski wrote: > W dniu 26.08.2016 o 08:15, Eric Wong pisze: > > > Not directly-related to the survey questions, but can you ensure > > it's accessible to folks without JavaScript/graphics, and > > perhaps also ensure it is on a host that is Tor-friendly? > > I plan on using Survs.com (where we have Premium account for free, > thanks to Survs admins). It has good online analysis tools, allows > to download results in easy parseable format[1], and has support > for multiple channels. > > [1]: https://github.com/jnareb/GitSurvey-scripts > > > It is possible to have a channel without JavaScript and without > cookies (anonymous), at the cost of having to fill the survey > in one go (without cookies and JavaScript you cannot go back > to fill more questions, or change your mind about answers). > The main page of survey would have a link to JavaScript-free > version, and all announcements (by me) would include it. Thanks. > There would be no graphics that are not purely optional > (decorative); probably there would be just a logo. > > I'm not sure how Tor-friendly is this host. I was able to get to Survs.com using Tor (maybe it was just luck with a new exit). > > Graphics setups often require non-Free firmware or drivers for > > acceptable performance; and there are also visually-impaired > > users who will need screen readers or Braille. > > A question: would it be better to have the whole survey one one > large page, or have it split into pages (with fever questions > per page)? I prefer single. One could get one page, take take time and let the connection drop/fail, and send it over all in one go. With multiple pages, one would have to reconnect for every POST. (fittingly, my connection failed writing this message a few days ago and I only got back around to it) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
[for some reason this email is not yet present on GMane NNTP interface] On 26 August 2016 at 21:12, David Bainbridge wrote: > Hi Jakub, > > This is excellent news! > > As when you last performed the survey it would be useful for us to be able > to see what the users in our organization (Ericsson) think of Git, and there > are many more than when the survey was last performed. > > Do any other organizations of any type have this need? Yes, I will offer separate channels (that can be separately analyzed, and that you can get anonymous data for specific channel) for every organization and/or company that want's it (within reason)... this time with names anonymized from start (unless requested not to). > As for the questions, it might be useful to have a question related to repo > management systems being used. > Gerrit > Kallithea > Rhodecode > Atlassian Bitbucket > GitHub Enterprise > GitHub.com > GitLab > Deveo > etc. > > This is not directly about Git of course but seeing the extent to which > these are used, and the proportion of users using them might be useful. This is somewhat present in current version of survey, namely there is question about *types* of tools (with git repository management, git hosting tools and code review tools included), and there is free-form question asking to enumerate tools one uses. That is, as above, but more generic, and not multiple choice. I will think about adding such question. Regards -- Jakub Narębski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
W dniu 26.08.2016 o 08:15, Eric Wong pisze: > Not directly-related to the survey questions, but can you ensure > it's accessible to folks without JavaScript/graphics, and > perhaps also ensure it is on a host that is Tor-friendly? I plan on using Survs.com (where we have Premium account for free, thanks to Survs admins). It has good online analysis tools, allows to download results in easy parseable format[1], and has support for multiple channels. [1]: https://github.com/jnareb/GitSurvey-scripts It is possible to have a channel without JavaScript and without cookies (anonymous), at the cost of having to fill the survey in one go (without cookies and JavaScript you cannot go back to fill more questions, or change your mind about answers). The main page of survey would have a link to JavaScript-free version, and all announcements (by me) would include it. There would be no graphics that are not purely optional (decorative); probably there would be just a logo. I'm not sure how Tor-friendly is this host. > Graphics setups often require non-Free firmware or drivers for > acceptable performance; and there are also visually-impaired > users who will need screen readers or Braille. A question: would it be better to have the whole survey one one large page, or have it split into pages (with fever questions per page)? P.S. With from 3k to 11k responses (I hope for at least 5k) Git User's Survey is outside of the free tier of most if not all web survey sites. I guess I could cobble something together out of Google Forms, but we would loose online analysis (and probably some of data that Survs.com makes available in download). Best regards, -- Jakub Narębski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
W dniu 26.08.2016 o 08:58, Andrew Ardill pisze: > Jakub Narębski wrote: >> Andrew Ardill pisze: >>> Jakub Narębski wrote: [...] 25. What [channel(s)] do you use to request/get help about Git [(if any)] >>> >>> It may also be useful to ask how people hear news about git, such as >>> when a new release comes out. Not sure if worth a separate question, >>> as there is a lot of crossover in the resources available for this and >>> for requesting help, but knowing this information would help us >>> understand what kinds of users are responding and which communication >>> channels are effective for git news. >> >> How would you propose such question would look like, and what proposed >> answers would be (if it were not a free-text / essay question)? > > Something like: > > XX. How do you hear about git related news > (such as new releases and community events)? > (multiple choice or single choice?) > * I wasn't aware there was any news > * I don't read any news, but I'm aware of it > * through news aggregation sites (such as reddit or hacker news) > * from a newsletter (such as Git Rev News) I wonder if we should also add * through a watched blog (such as GitHub Blog) * announcement section in news site (such as LWN.net) > * from a mailing list (such as the git developer or the git for windows list) Are there any other common channels that you (the people) watch for git news or software news? Freshmeat / Freecode is defunct, and no replacement got popular enough... > * other The last would be * other, please specify > It would be good to allow a list of specific resources to be written > to capture things we don't know about, and specific instances of the > categories above, e.g.: > "hacker news, git mailing list, git rev news" On Survs.com it would require an additional question with free-form answer, I think. >> Note that there might be a problem of severe bias: people who heard >> about Git User's Survey 2016 are probably ones that watch news about Git. >> Still, it would be useful to know if people read RelNotes... > > Agreed, the intent behind the question is to work out what are the > effective communication channels so that they can be used more > effectively. Right. Nb. I wonder if this question should not replace the one about how you heard about the survey (at least if there would be too many questions). But I'll have to see how many questions we have now. Thanks for suggestions, -- Jakub Narębski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
Hi, Jakub Narębski wrote: > Andrew Ardill pisze: > > Jakub Narębski wrote: > >> 25. What [channel(s)] do you use to request/get help about Git [(if any)] > > > > It may also be useful to ask how people hear news about git, such as > > when a new release comes out. Not sure if worth a separate question, > > as there is a lot of crossover in the resources available for this and > > for requesting help, but knowing this information would help us > > understand what kinds of users are responding and which communication > > channels are effective for git news. > > How would you propose such question would look like, and what proposed > answers would be (if it were not a free-text / essay question)? Something like: XX. How do you hear about git related news (such as new releases and community events)? (multiple choice or single choice?) * I wasn't aware there was any news * I don't read any news, but I'm aware of it * through news aggregation sites (such as reddit or hacker news) * from a newsletter (such as Git Rev News) * from a mailing list (such as the git developer or the git for windows list) * other It would be good to allow a list of specific resources to be written to capture things we don't know about, and specific instances of the categories above, eg: "hacker news, git mailing list, git rev news" > Note that there might be a problem of severe bias: people who heard > about Git User's Survey 2016 are probably ones that watch news about Git. > Still, it would be useful to know if people read RelNotes... Agreed, the intent behind the question is to work out what are the effective communication channels so that they can be used more effectively. > That is, if people have a pattern to their upgrade of Git, and can > tell how often they upgrade. > > XX. How often you upgrade Git? > (multiple choice or single choice?) > > * as soon as new version is released > * when there is new binary package / distribution package > * when updating distribution / system > * around every month, or more often > * around every 6 months or more often > * I use what is installed on system > > Something like that? Exactly, looks great. Regards, Andrew Ardill -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
Not directly-related to the survey questions, but can you ensure it's accessible to folks without JavaScript/graphics, and perhaps also ensure it is on a host that is Tor-friendly? Graphics setups often require non-Free firmware or drivers for acceptable performance; and there are also visually-impaired users who will need screen readers or Braille. Thanks. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
W dniu 22.08.2016 o 01:59, Andrew Ardill pisze: > On 21 August 2016 at 04:56, Jakub Narębski wrote: >> 25. What [channel(s)] do you use to request/get help about Git [(if any)] > > It may also be useful to ask how people hear news about git, such as > when a new release comes out. Not sure if worth a separate question, > as there is a lot of crossover in the resources available for this and > for requesting help, but knowing this information would help us > understand what kinds of users are responding and which communication > channels are effective for git news. How would you propose such question would look like, and what proposed answers would be (if it were not a free-text / essay question)? Note that there might be a problem of severe bias: people who heard about Git User's Survey 2016 are probably ones that watch news about Git. Still, it would be useful to know if people read RelNotes... > Related, it might be worth asking how often people upgrade their git > clients and servers, particularly in corporate/managed environments. > This question would ask two things, how long after a new release comes > out do you install it, and do you install every update that comes out > or do you skip versions. I suspect many would just use whatever is > released in their distro and update at the same time as they update > other packages, but it would be interesting to know if people, for > example, only upgrade their managed environments every year/6 months > or something to avoid introducing changes to their users. That is, if people have a pattern to their upgrade of Git, and can tell how often they upgrade. XX. How often you upgrade Git? (multiple choice or single choice?) * as soon as new version is released * when there is new binary package / distribution package * when updating distribution / system * around every month, or more often * around every 6 months or more often * I use what is installed on system Something like that? Regards, -- Jakub Narębski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
W dniu 20.08.2016 o 23:29, Eric Wong pisze: > Jakub Narębski wrote: >> Other version control systems >> >> 20. What other version control systems (SCM) do you use beside Git? >>(multiple choice, with other) >> >> Explanation: "using" version control system here means using >> it to actively contribute (propose changes or accept proposals), >> and not only e.g. using it to download software. >> >> JN> Perhaps we should split it into two questions, one about >> JN> centralized version control systems, one about distributed >> JN> ones. > > Perhaps there can be a question about use and interest of other > decentralized/federated systems which could be potential > collaboration tools or transports for git. > e.g. ipfs, gpg, tor, diaspora, *coin, tent, xmpp, matrix, ... > > And another about how they use email: webmail, GUI client, > console client, phone app, none at all. I am of two minds about those (and similar) questions. One one hand side, these are quite interesting (especially correlated with other answers). On the other hand, they are not about Git, and we have large number of questions already - I'd prefer if number of questions was below 50-60. That said, those questions could be added as a separate section: Other tools XX. How do you read and answer email (check all that apply)? (multiple choice, possibly with other) + GUI client (e.g. Outlook, Thunderbird, Evolution, KMail) + console client (e.g. pine, alpine, mutt) + webmail or web client (e.g. GMail, Hotmail; HyperKitty) + phone app (e.g. K-9 Mail, Airmail, CloudMagic) + I don't use email XX. Which of the decentralized/federated systems do you use or are interested in? JN> Have I missed some interesting and Git-relevant federated system? + IPFS + PGP / GPG + Tor + diaspora* + Bitcoin, Litecoin, Etherium, etc. + tent.io + XMPP / Jabber + OMEMO + Matrix.org + pump.io + other, please specify There are a few other questions that we might want to ask if such section is to be added to the Git User's Survey 2016: XX. Which of IDEs and programmer's editors do you use [with Git]? (multiple choice, with other) JN> Have I missed some popular IDE or programmers editor? + Visual Studio + Eclipse + NetBeans + Xcode + IntelliJ IDEA / PhpStorm / WebStorm + KDevelop + Anjuta + Sublime Text + TextMate + Emacs + Vim + Atom + Brackets + Geany + other IDE or editor, please specify XX. Which of the programming languages are you proficient with? (multiple choices, with other) JN> Based on TIOBE index from August 2016, Language Trends on GitHub JN> 2015, GitHut (languages in GitHub), Stack Overflow Developer JN> Survey 2016, and my own preferences; in no particular order + C + C++ + C# + Java + VisualBasic.NET + Objective-C + Python + Perl + PHP + JavaScript + Ruby + shell scripe + CSS, LESS, SASS etc. + HTML, HTML5 + TeX, LaTeX, ConTeXt + SQL + Go + Rust + Swift + Scala + Haskell -- Jakub Narębski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
On 21 August 2016 at 04:56, Jakub Narębski wrote: > 25. What [channel(s)] do you use to request/get help about Git [(if any)] It may also be useful to ask how people hear news about git, such as when a new release comes out. Not sure if worth a separate question, as there is a lot of crossover in the resources available for this and for requesting help, but knowing this information would help us understand what kinds of users are responding and which communication channels are effective for git news. Related, it might be worth asking how often people upgrade their git clients and servers, particularly in corporate/managed environments. This question would ask two things, how long after a new release comes out do you install it, and do you install every update that comes out or do you skip versions. I suspect many would just use whatever is released in their distro and update at the same time as they update other packages, but it would be interesting to know if people, for example, only upgrade their managed environments every year/6 months or something to avoid introducing changes to their users. Regards, Andrew Ardill -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Proposed questions for "Git User's Survey 2016"
Jakub Narębski wrote: > Other version control systems > > 20. What other version control systems (SCM) do you use beside Git? >(multiple choice, with other) > > Explanation: "using" version control system here means using > it to actively contribute (propose changes or accept proposals), > and not only e.g. using it to download software. > > JN> Perhaps we should split it into two questions, one about > JN> centralized version control systems, one about distributed > JN> ones. Perhaps there can be a question about use and interest of other decentralized/federated systems which could be potential collaboration tools or transports for git. e.g. ipfs, gpg, tor, diaspora, *coin, tent, xmpp, matrix, ... And another about how they use email: webmail, GUI client, console client, phone app, none at all. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
