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-Ribeiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The United States of America that Mario Goveia lives
in must be another
country, and not the United States of America that I
know from having lived
here since 1956. For one of those decades, I taught
in East Harlem and also in
the Bedford-Stuyvesant
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--- Floriano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And thirdly, you loud mouths overseas must realise
that you cannot go on
giving yourselves the credit of being the know-all
and more patriotic as far
as Goa is concerned. There are others on ground zero
who work like white ants,
unseen and
Where are the environmental activists on GX and Goanet
when Goa really needs them?
--- floriano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Further to my report on the bull-dozzing/levelling
of the mud piles on the
NH-17 of 6/Oct, (not published on GOANET) where I
cautioned the Chief
Officer of the Mapusa
--- Lawrence Rodrigues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Catholic Church has a very specific and very
high-minded reason for wanting their priests to be
celibate, and this reason has so far superceded the
arguments in favor of married priests.Mario G
...and the Church is *never* wrong?
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have serious doubts about the trickle-down
theory. Indeed, there is much in the serious
literature to indicate that the gap between the well
to do and the poor in the USA has widened ever so
detrimentally in recent years. The measure of
this kind of
--- Frederick Noronha (FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
And surely the US Navy could lose friends in Goa
among its supporters,
who might get upset by this statement: Goan. Having
been ruled as a
Portuguese colony for more than 450 years, Goa has a
culture distinctly
different from most of
In my opinion, Cornel has no idea what he is talking
about when it comes to poverty and segregation in the
US, where I have lived for 35 years and am a volunteer
in a social service agency that helps people
considered poor in this country. Many poor Americans
have a better standard of living than
Cornel,
I will see what I can find. However, the ruins and
misery from Karl Marx's ideology are strewn around the
world, from the old Soviet Union to China, India and
much of Africa and South America. Some, like India,
which had a committment to democratic principles
learned from the Brits, did
http://headlines.sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13956596headline=5~Indian~Americans~in~MIT's~top~35~list
Indians continue to assert themselves at MIT. Good
job! The following excerpt is from the article above.
Five Indian Americans have made it to the
Massachusetts Institute of Technology's
Cornel,
I think it is you who seems to wear a kashtie that is
a little too tight, my friend.
What does WW-II have to do with this thread?
Did you really expect me to accept without rebuttal or
answer your comment, however innocent or naive, that
the Catholic Church was being secretive about
Valmiki,
Since you digressed without meaning to, my opinion is
that these pets are considered playthings for their
owners. I am not a pet owner any more, and when I had
pets I never had them sterilized. We have a famous
Canadian vet on Goanet who is probably deeply involved
in implementing the
--- Radhakrishnan Nair [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(Mario Goveia wrote: One wonders why he did not
question his own basic
assumption, that a small cabal of elites could make
better decisions for
entire economies than the weighted average decisions
of entire populations,
and caused untold
There is something deeper and very troubling going on
here. You need to hire an immigration attorney in
India to get to the bottom of this sad case.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My dear Jose,
Thank you so much for your small line on my Visa
Woes.
Of course, I did tap the right door/s, in
after his death.
Cornel
- Original Message -
From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!
goanet@goanet.org
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: Musings on crossing a
hundred
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Vidyadhar,
I studied Marx and his writings hell of a lot in
student and post-student
days. Ok, this was many moons ago. However, I never
came across the view
that Marx said question everything. I am just
curious about its source. Is
this
--- Vivian D'Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Forcing priests to live a celibate life, which I
suspect many privately do not comply with, is
inhuman. The natural human sexual urges cannot be
suppresed forever. The results are quite obvious
with all the news stories one hears these days
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My bigger question is to ask why the Catholic Church
is seemingly secretive about the matter of married
priests?
Mario replies:
Just because you did not know that married priests
from other Christian denominations are allowed to stay
married when they
--- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
See
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050930/ap_on_re_us/gay_priests
If priests are supposed to be celibate, should it
make a difference if they are gay or straight?
Regards,
George
Mario replies:
The operative words are supposed to be celibate.
afra dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No! He cannot shed light on these matters.
He is getting free food and shelter in Rome, he does
not want to kicked out of there, so he will do any
kind of curry favouring (I could have used a harsher
word) over there.
How many Italians were given the Papal
--- afra dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well done Lawrence. - the Irish do that, its about
time we did the same.
Secondly, when there is no decline in religious
activity.
Thirdly, when there is no income worth the Vatican's
acknowledgement. They are
not interested in declaring a saint.
George Pinto wrote:Sept. 25, 2005
Today is the 320th anniversary of the founding of
India and the modern Third Worlds first fully
native religious Congregation by Blessed Joseph
Vaz and his Oratorian companion priests on
September 25th, 1685.
The process for his Cause for
--- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Has this subject come here before?
Isn't an East Indian monk from Bassein, Gonzalo,
among the 13 matrys of Japan?
Mario replies:
Eugene,
I have no idea. All I was suggesting was that anyone
interested in inquiring about or lobbying for a
George Pinto wrote:Sept. 25, 2005
Today is the 320th anniversary of the founding of
India and the modern Third Worlds first fully native
religious Congregation by Blessed Joseph Vaz and
his Oratorian companion priests on September 25th,
1685. Blessed Joseph Vaz has the official title of
So what?
George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Sept. 25, 2005
Today is the 320th anniversary of the founding of India and the modern Third
Worlds first fully native religious Congregation by Blessed Joseph Vaz and
his Oratorian companion priests on September 25th, 1685. Blessed Joseph Vaz
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?
newsid=54780headline=Jamaat~threatens~Sania,~security~beefed~up
The Islamo-fascists strike in India:
Indian tennis sensation Sania Mirza will receive extra security after an
Islamic group opposed to her on-court dress threatened to stop her from
--- Eddie Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This entire post, including the first line and the
punch line has appeared
in scores of sites over the past week see
http://www.google.com/search?num=100hl=enlr=newwindow=1safe=offq=12%2C622%2C500+KatrinabtnG=Search
Failure to acknowledge
--- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Victor,
I could not read the attachment that may have
attached to your posting.
However if you will bear with me, I would like to
respond to what the headline of your post suggest.
Hurricane Katrina was a natural disaster exacerbated
by
--- Frederick Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
America's Tsunami, By V. M. de Malar
They're marching out of New Orleans today, the
famous Jazz City of the American South has been
totally devastated by Hurricane Katrina. Huge
levees have been breached,
Mario corrects the record:
Only
Mario wrote:
This is an ironic demand from a person who has
never expressed any outrage to the killings of
hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims by Muslim
tyrants like Saddambab, Osamabab, Al Zarkawibab,
and all the Babs who belong to Hamas, Hezbollah,
Islamic Jihad and the Al
--- jose colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It would be interesting to read WHAT amcho Mario has
written expressing any outrage to the killings of
hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims by
Muslim tyrants like Saddambab - esp WHEN he was
doing that with weapons given to him by WHOM?
jose colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
India, Pakistan Agree to Free Prisoners
By ASHOK SHARMA, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 58
minutes ago
NEW DELHI - India and Pakistan agreed Tuesday to
release hundreds of
fishermen and other civilians in each other's jails
a goodwill measure
that comes
--- Anthony M Barreto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Great Philosopher Hiraclitus was wrong. Some things
never change. Ten years back I had written a piece
for Gomantak Times that read 'women fronts for
fukot publicity.' Well I still believe in myself.
Mario muses:
Hiraclitus said, There is
I am trying to reach Jaime X. D'Mello to congratulate
him for the simple Konkani Tutorial called Teach
Yourself Some Konkani to be found at the URL:
http://www.goa-world.com/goa/konkani/
When I emailed him at the yahoo.com address on the URL
I found that it bounced back to me with the caption
--- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the USA, in the past we went by Asian Indians in
America. We were a unique group as other ethnic
groups were called Irish Americans and German
Americans etc. We called ourselves the above
because the title of American-Indians was taken and
we
--- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I find it surprising that the immigrants in the
UK did not raise a cry when the book appeared in
print - more so, to stop future insensitive titles
and texts from appearing. We condemn practices of a
generation ago with harsh words (see
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpagefile_name=story4%2Etxtcounter_img=4
Pioneer News service / New Delhi
The Supreme Court has said the practice of notifying
religious groups as minority communities should
be discouraged as it
--- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What we reap now in the form of London bombings,
and previous to that Madrid mayhem, is what American
foreign policy has brought about.
Mario responds:
Eugene,
Maybe you did not think that the Shia and the Kurds
in Iraq, who were being killed,
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I doubt Dinesh D'Souza, if invited as a special
guest by the GOA (U.K.), would get a warm reception
from the Goans here. This is because by and large,
I believe, most Goans here are liberal minded (
in the British sense) and they would not take
--- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
THE GREAT INDIAN CLASS TEST
COMMENTARAO / S.L. RAO
The author is chairman, Institute for Social and
Economic Change
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Elitism or meritocracy?
In The Karma of Brown Folk, Vijay Prashad examines
the
model minority
--- Boromor Joseph Dias goanet@goanet.org wrote:
Hi,
Just for the record, Dinesh was a bandra boy. He was
my classmate in St. Stanislaus High School, Bandra.
Lived at Peter Dias Road. He was a briliant student
in school an excellent human being. I dont know
much of him in USA except
--- Tony Barros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Eugene et al!
The label - East Indian is used in the U.S. and
probably in Canada by Asian Indians from the
Carribbean Islands-ostensibly as they were
brought to work as bonded laborers by the British
company - the East Indian Trading Company.I do
--- Lawrence Rodrigues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 08/08/05, Radhakrishnan Nair wrote:
Not exactly, Gabe! WOG (Westernised Oriental
Gentleman) was a sobriquet
accorded to Western-educated Indian elites like
ICS officers during the Raj.
Cheers, RKN
RESPONSE: Well here it is..:-
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
P.S. If exposing the likes of Dinesh D'Souza is a
personal attack, then so be it. If a person
journalist exposes himself to the extent of
inviting ciriticism, than I don't see anything wrong
in it. After all it shows how he progressed. I fail
to
--- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One of the netters suggested that there's always
someone on the net to bring another fellow Goan
down.
If this is a reference to me, let me point out that
I had posed a query. I just wanted to know if Dinesh
is a Goan, and that's all. As I said, I
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This forum is what it is all about! The
fact that he has made millions, is your criteria of
a person's 'worth' speaks volumes about yourself.
Our Goan Politicians too have made millions; we must
not forget to applaud them too!
Mario responds:
You
--- Vivian D'Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Instead of being proud of the achievements of one of
our fellow Goans (or Indian), in typical crab
mentality we want to tear him down, calling him
something he is not etc.
We may not agree with his political leanings, but
given him credit where it
This is an amazing true story of the oddyssey of some
close friends who were on their way back from Pune to
Detroit on July 27, when the worst deluge in Mumbai
history descended upon them. This will be even more
amazing to those familiar with the terrain between
Chembur and Santa Cruz. David is
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://logosonline.home.igc.org/kelly.htm
If Dinesh D'Souza were not East Indian, he would
simply have no role to play for the Right: there
would be no White House credentials, no
appointments as scholar,.
Mario responds:
The
--- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think dinesh's name has appeared on this list
earlier in a different context. that he is a
conservative and anti-immigrant is well-known.
Mario replies:
Dinesh D'Souza is a modern political conservative. He
is NOT anti-immigrant, being an
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dinesh did not excel, please go to the following
site to read more:-
http://logosonline.home.igc.org/kelly.htm
How Dinesh Gets Over:
The Unmeritorious Scholarship of Dinesh D'Souza.
Mario replies:
Gabe Menezes has not mentioned a single specific
Argue, you're an Indian!
RANJAN YUMNAM
TIMES NEWS NETWORK, TUESDAY, AUGUST 02, 2005
Amartya Sen on why being argumentative is a virtue
If you ever need an economist's endorsement of the
view that Indians are vocal with their arguments, bank
on Amartya Sen. According to Sen, being
--- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Saw a book titled Bloody Foreigners, published in
Britain in 2004 but reissued this year in paperback.
I haven't read, but hope it buy it. Did anyone on
the goanet read it?
This is the type of hysteria that white Britain
creates and then the
--- halur rasho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Exactly. Sorry , but Goans who display racist
attitudes towards indians get no sympathy from me
when they encounter rascism abroad.
--- rene barreto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mario adds:
I don't know about just Goans, but Indians wrote the
original
Gabriel de Figueiredo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I think, India as a whole ought to do away with the
idea of Caste-based benefits, and instead
concentrate on the earning capacity of families.
Whether this is palatable to the Indian caste-
ridden society, is the big question ...
Mario adds:
I
--- Dr. Ambert Pimenta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey Mario,
Your response was brilliant. Liked it very much.
I would only say this We need poeple like you
here, there was never a suggestion contrary to
that. Have your say, its a free world , but i would
really appreciate you not
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
'Al Quaeda in Europe' evoked 29 posts,'NEWS UPDATE -
another Saddam mass grave found in Iraq' got 23
responses.
On the subject of repetitiveness, these posts had
'Neville Chamberlain' mentioned 6 or 7 times! This
is according to my Gmail 'search
--- Dr. Ambert Pimenta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I guess your right Mario , we need change and change
is the thing for 2005. But need we listen to your
rambling and getting involved in every comment
made on Goanet?
Mario replies:
The only change I would like to see on Goanet is a far
more
Frederick Noronha (FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In this context, I would like to hear from others
who have experience with using bed-nets. We've
heard via Goanet that expats in Africa would
often resort to bed-nets. Anti-malaria campaigns
globally talk not just of bed-nets, but ones soaked
--- Dr. Ambert Pimenta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have been a goanetter much longer than you and
seen this site evolve into a one that almost
deviates from what it was orignally concieved
for .. i.e Goa. Lets keep to Goenkar business here
only !
Mario replies:
Thanks for your comments
--- Felicio Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am ready to vote for the worse-post-of-the-week.
Mario replies:
You may have already won, Felicio!
This excellent analysis seems to prove my point.
Those whom I have single-handedly responded to most of
the time, obviously to some more than others, namely,
Gabe (84), Cecil (46), Santosh (44), Cornel (29),
Mervyn (25), Jose (18) and George (16), have 262 posts
between them.
This puts some
Thomas Stephens Konknni Kendr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Sir,
Kindly give publicity to the following press
release.
Dr. Pratap Naik, S.J.
Director
Thomas stephens Konknni Kendr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Condemnation of Parishad's dangerous objectives
Mandd Sobhann wishes to register its
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Cecil,
A little while ago I read your article/material on
Goanet on the
'celebration', if that is the right word, of
death(s) in Goa. I learned a lot from your
material. However, the question I have always
wondered about is-- why is 'after
Top Ten Ways to Recognize an NRI while in India
Courtesy: Krishna Prasad
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
(May not apply towards NRIs from the Gulf)
10. One who requests the autorickshaw driver to drive
slowly and clutches the seat-cushion in abject fear.
9. One who just bought a case of Bisleri or
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
PS To David Futers I totally agree with your thread
AFRAID. I am fairly nervous posting this innocuous
rambling as I am sure to have inadvertently offended
someone
Mario replies:
Rebecca, there is nothing wrong in being an economic
migrant, or any other kind for
--- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thank you Vivian for your post. Let us focus on
some concrete topics:
1. Educational opportunities for Goans (not just
those in Goa).
2. Job opportunities.
3. Environmental issues (there is a nice Wild Goa
d-list).
4. Consumer rights (support
Frederick Noronha (FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is 'terrorism'? Is it 7/7 in London and 9/11 in
New York? Is it the continuing invasion of Iraq. Or
is that an invasion at all? Did weapons of mass
destruction really exist, or do some of us refuse
to see them?
Mario replies:
Nice try
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Mario,
I have come to the conclusion that, apart from the
caste issue, our views about America re the Iraq
war and about Palestine/Israel differ very
significantly. I don't think we can persuade each
other differently and should therefore agree to
--- Seb dc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Plz excuse the old man Gabe
Let me tell u a small story we hear as kids! My aunt
used to tell us that grandparents tend to act like
kids when they get old. Possibly we are seeing
one here:-)
Mario replies:
Seb, have you made ONE original post on
--- Seb dc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nothing NEW
Mario replies:
Seb, for me to answer with something new, the others
have to post something new. Facts do not change, so
if someone misrepresents facts, the same old facts
have to be used in response. Sorry. Use your delete button.
--- Bosco D'Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mario I will not disparage Stephen Brown
!! I said so earlier too.
Neither should you disparage Haroon Siddiqui just to
make your point. If you have a comment on Haroon's
writings, make it without resorting to dramatics.
Mario replies:
Haroon
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mario,
I have not followed the 'economic migrant' debate
closely for lack of time.
Mario responds:
Cornel, thanks for the kind of sane logic you are
capable of. Let me start by saying that no migrant is
superior to any other migrant, and it is no one's
--- David Futers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am afraid. Yes Afraid, not of bombs in London but
of posting any thing slightly controversial on this
forum.
Mario replies:
Now, now, David. That wasn't a very nice thing to
say. After all, our bombs are only filled with hot
air.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/050712/1/3tfgc.html
The article above shows the merciless Islamo-fascism
the Europeans are faced with, after appeasing radical
Muslims for decades. I'd like to see the terrorist
sympathisers Mervyn, Fred, Gabe and Cornel trying to
blame this incident on George Bush or
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Many Goans, also migrate, not for economic
reasons. Many Doctor's, engineers etc move for
better facilities and better to further themselves
with more insight and the scope to learn more. Many
Goans from the U.K. have moved to Portugal and/or
--- Louise goanet@goanet.org wrote:
So far, All the messages I have received appear to
be from people venting their aggressions on this
site. I am starting to think I made a mistake by
venturing here. Please tell me I'm wrong and there
are some friendly discussions here.
Mario replies:
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/12/nbbc12.xml
What did my Israeli friend warn about after the London
attacks? Here the left-wing BBC cannot bring itself
to call a spade a spade, joining some of our intrepid
terrorist sympathisers and appeasers on GX. An
excerpt
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apcanada_story.asp?category=1101slug=Border%20Canada%20Terror%20Groups
Bosco,
Click on the link above for a current assessment of
the threat from terrorists in Canada. I hope you
don't think the Canadian Security Intelligence Service
is knocking Canada.
I
--- Seb dc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Looks like goanet is being bombarded by people who
have nothing else to do:-)
Just for the records...Today i received quite a
number of emails(lost the count by now)out of
which Mario Goviea had sent...16(-.-)
Mario replies:
Unlike you, honest
--- Bosco D'Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What are you trying to sensationalize now
with an article from December 2002 ?? We don't need
to disparage Stephen Brown as you did Haroon
Siddiquinevertheless ..
Mario replies:
You can try to disparage Stephen Brown, which would
mean
--- Cecil Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wish more overseas Goans would relate their
personal experience while, and reasons for,
migrating so we can truly understand the process
and the underlying motives - rather than just
depend on vague generalisations and anonymous
statistics.
--- Frederick Noronha (FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Last night, while doing moderation duties before
going to sleep, I was surprised to find that a
single Goanetter had sent in 17 different
messages for approval!
Please let's take turns in speaking out, even if
e-mail is an asynchronous
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Salus,
I have cousins who left Africa for a better place.
Some settled in Goa (they returned to GOA because
of political conditions in Africa); the
others migrated to Canada (they went there purely
for economic reasons). If not for economic reasons,
they
The article below should be compared with other
propaganda emanating from some of our Canadian
Goanetters who are sympathetic to the Islamo-fascist
cause:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5007
An excerpt from the article:
But the fact that Canadians had a potential sucide
Goanetters need to click on the following link and
compare the contents of this New York Times article,
generally a left-of-center, anti-war newspaper, with
the relentless propaganda being fed to us by certain
Goanetters sympathetic to the Islamo-fascists, who
blame any and everything for the
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This post is not to take a holier than thou stance,
just to enlighten, on some misconceptions.
Mario replies:
Anyone who has read Gabe's posts knows that he has a
holier-than-thou attitude to this bogus topic, trying
to show that he is somehow superior
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I shall further illuminate you; the vast
majority of Goans who moved from Kenya were not
economic migrants. Had it not been for the
political change, I believe many would have
continued to remain in East Africa.
Mario replies:
This is another
--- halur rasho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My main difficulty in arguing with you was , when
push comes to shove, we would be on the same side,I
think (or hope).
Mario asks:
Who is this mythical Halur, who can be quite
prescient, and why is he hiding behind an alias?
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Your certitude is mindboggling.
Mario replies:
Unboggle your mind. You seemed to be a reasonable
guy, open to evidence, quite unlike committed
anti-Americans like Gabe and Mervyn, so it is my mind
that is boggling. The only certitude I have is based
on the
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