RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
It looks like togglescores is being blocked by beta also. Ray ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
I dont think its realistic for Valve to try and support every type of script or plugin...I meant just concentrate on the admin side of things. Kick and Ban are far too excessive for the majority of servers and rcon is very user unfriendly. It quite reasonable to suggest a Valve Admin plugin as this is a commercially viable idea if its payed for by server operators. You also wouldnt have 3000 PO'ed admins everytime there was a patch, spamming up their emails or bitching on their forums Valve just broke something if its official. TBH though I think the days of CS:S are numbered if players opinions are being ignored.but what do I know :) From: Chris Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 03:42:03 +0100 But they won't do it and even if they did. It would be a nightmare. What features go into the standard stock admin GUI then? Because if a requested feature doesn't have an obvious effect on the average desperately in need of Ritalin, server-hopping 13 year old, your voice will be drowned out and out gunned by the masses, most of whom will never admin a proper public standalone server. No disrespect to Valve, but when they find out by reading some srcds forum that a feature would be real cool it will get bottom priority below everything else. In the end, like always, it will be the independent plugin makers that knock out the features. Can you seriously see Valve ever getting around to making a plugin that has all of the features of Mani, Beetles and Matties plugins? Not to mention all the others out there made for sourcemod? And even if they made something one quarter as good. *SOME* of those people, who love vanilla servers would then spend most of their time convincing Valve that they should do a better job of deliberately breaking 3rd party plugins AND that beta's are a waste of time. Now consider the other option - one that is actually possible for Valve to do. Run a beta for every SRCDS update. That alone, would solve most of my problems. I could actually invest time into my server, serious time, without worrying that everything I'm going to build it on, is someday going to be ruined by an update. I'm not asking for endless consultations between Valve and the community. I'm asking for Valve to give us 2 weeks notice on all updates. EG. Today is the 20th of May. This is what we are sending out on the 3rd of June. You have two weeks to test and patch against it. Have fun boys and girls. That simple. If they want to take feedback, they can, but I couldn't give two monkeys whether they do or don't. Because quite frankly no matter what Valve does, the plugin operators can patch to make sure their stuff still works and I can live a little longer in the knowledge that man months of work isn't going to go down the toilet, with me begging the plugin operators to patch within hours rather than days. Anyone who doesn't care, doesn't run a freakin server loaded up with plugins that have a lot of time invested in them. Cheers. Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scumbucket Sent: 20 May 2007 03:04 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Well I say if Valve wants to make a server admin tool and other plugins so we can admin our servers while at the same collect all the important data like hits to the various parts of the body, then I am all for it. But they don't so we have to use these 3rd party plugins in order to please the players. The players want all the bells and whistles that just do not come with a stock DODS Server. It would make my job easier if I did not have to add so many plugins. Just my two cents worth! - Original Message - From: Chris Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands You can make all the suggestions you want. It's my opinion that most server admins want to keep their third party plugins working, rather than Valve push out updates overnight that break them. There is no official links I would ever be able to muster up, that proves what features want most. But hey, it's a good job it's just a Valve mailing list and not the UN security council. What do you want me to prove next? That server admins want to keep their servers up and running? Any server admin that doesn't want a beat program, quite simply doesn't know he wants it yet. Hang around for another few years of broken plugins and servers overnight and believe me, all you want is a freakin beta program. If by that stage you happen to be in that small percentage that don't, it's only because you run little or no plugins, which ain't exactly the norm for a server operator. Cheers, Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
Valve has given us the interface for plugins. Most plugins, however go beyond this and reach into the memory to do special things like burn, teleport, etc... In fact, an admin plugin doesn't require any special coding that usually breaks with updates. Just giving the server operators the ability to allow clients to control the server without rcon access is easily done, and can be stable. I don't think it's reasonable to expect server operators to pay for admin features. It will either be done by valve, or by 3rd party for free. Somebody just has to come up with one that doesn't include all of the extra stuff. I have one coming out for HL2DM, but it wouldn't be good for CS:S... I sort of agree on the days being numbered, but lately I've actually seen valve responding to concerns. I just don't think they have a good way to address concerns brought to light by both players and server operators. I recently had a conversation with valve and let them know that playgamesound didn't work with the client restriction, but play did. They responded that it should work and could I verify it for them. Once I did they responded: That certainly sounds like a bug then, I will get the team to check this out. This has been an issue since the release of the cl_restrict_server_commands CVAR. If they had a system of good communication with bug tracking, then I think most of the problems we see as players/operators would be taken care of. Keeper -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Munky Judder Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:40 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands I dont think its realistic for Valve to try and support every type of script or plugin...I meant just concentrate on the admin side of things. Kick and Ban are far too excessive for the majority of servers and rcon is very user unfriendly. It quite reasonable to suggest a Valve Admin plugin as this is a commercially viable idea if its payed for by server operators. You also wouldnt have 3000 PO'ed admins everytime there was a patch, spamming up their emails or bitching on their forums Valve just broke something if its official. TBH though I think the days of CS:S are numbered if players opinions are being ignored.but what do I know :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
FACT A: Most servers use 3rd party plugins. Always have done, always will. FACT B: Most server operators including myself, are NOT asking Valve to support 3rd party plugins, but to recognise the practical ramifications of fact A and how Steam updates without any kind of Betas cause immense headaches. It's not about support. It's about having a proper beta pre-release cycle set in stone so that the plugin operators can patch in advance and the rest of us can test if we so desire. FACT C: No matter what official admin tools Valve releases, the server operators are not going to implement them, if they don't have the features they seek. It's no use you saying that you think kick and ban is too much along with just about everything else, if most of the server ops disagree. You can keep repeating your views about what server admins need till the cows come home. At the end of the day, they listen to the people who cough up the cash to keep their servers running. So if those people want to be able to bet, vote on maps, kick ban, whatever then that's what they will get so long as there is a plugin / script that works. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't have the features that I want on my server running. I have the features that my community votes for and pays for. If I had my own way, I wouldn't have betting on my server, but that's what my crowd really want, so that's what they get. What's getting on my skin, is that out there, there are a few vocal people who keep shouting But we only need XYZ to admin the server and anyone who runs these plugins - well that's their problem, Valve shouldn't waste their time on these people Great. Bully for you. You run vanilla servers and that's what you're players want. But the rest of don't have vanilla servers - and that is a lot of us. It's not like the server operators just insist on running this stuff, it's what the players in their communities want. The bottom line is that most servers run these plugins and we'll never get away from that. If Valve put a pre-release beta in place, 1 hour of their time, could save thousands of man hours that the server operators have to waste. Cheers. Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Munky Judder Sent: 24 May 2007 09:40 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands I dont think its realistic for Valve to try and support every type of script or plugin...I meant just concentrate on the admin side of things. Kick and Ban are far too excessive for the majority of servers and rcon is very user unfriendly. It quite reasonable to suggest a Valve Admin plugin as this is a commercially viable idea if its payed for by server operators. You also wouldnt have 3000 PO'ed admins everytime there was a patch, spamming up their emails or bitching on their forums Valve just broke something if its official. TBH though I think the days of CS:S are numbered if players opinions are being ignored.but what do I know :) From: Chris Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 03:42:03 +0100 But they won't do it and even if they did. It would be a nightmare. What features go into the standard stock admin GUI then? Because if a requested feature doesn't have an obvious effect on the average desperately in need of Ritalin, server-hopping 13 year old, your voice will be drowned out and out gunned by the masses, most of whom will never admin a proper public standalone server. No disrespect to Valve, but when they find out by reading some srcds forum that a feature would be real cool it will get bottom priority below everything else. In the end, like always, it will be the independent plugin makers that knock out the features. Can you seriously see Valve ever getting around to making a plugin that has all of the features of Mani, Beetles and Matties plugins? Not to mention all the others out there made for sourcemod? And even if they made something one quarter as good. *SOME* of those people, who love vanilla servers would then spend most of their time convincing Valve that they should do a better job of deliberately breaking 3rd party plugins AND that beta's are a waste of time. Now consider the other option - one that is actually possible for Valve to do. Run a beta for every SRCDS update. That alone, would solve most of my problems. I could actually invest time into my server, serious time, without worrying that everything I'm going to build it on, is someday going to be ruined by an update. I'm not asking for endless consultations between Valve and the community. I'm asking for Valve to give us 2 weeks notice on all updates. EG. Today is the 20th of May. This is what we are sending out on the 3rd of June. You have two weeks to test and patch against it. Have fun boys and girls. That simple. If they want to take
Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
I am tired of fighting Valve updates. When the next release breaks Mani I am done until SourceMod works. Maybe everyone should check out SourceMod's tracker. I am sure it is not 100% correct, but they show out of 28,736 servers 18,267 of them are running Mani. Since the next update is going to break Mani and make it difficult for him to continue he has most likely quit. I for one have no interest in running a server without that sort of functionality. http://www.sourcemod.net/stats.php On 5/24/07 9:45 AM, Chris Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FACT A: Most servers use 3rd party plugins. Always have done, always will. FACT B: Most server operators including myself, are NOT asking Valve to support 3rd party plugins, but to recognise the practical ramifications of fact A and how Steam updates without any kind of Betas cause immense headaches. It's not about support. It's about having a proper beta pre-release cycle set in stone so that the plugin operators can patch in advance and the rest of us can test if we so desire. FACT C: No matter what official admin tools Valve releases, the server operators are not going to implement them, if they don't have the features they seek. It's no use you saying that you think kick and ban is too much along with just about everything else, if most of the server ops disagree. You can keep repeating your views about what server admins need till the cows come home. At the end of the day, they listen to the people who cough up the cash to keep their servers running. So if those people want to be able to bet, vote on maps, kick ban, whatever then that's what they will get so long as there is a plugin / script that works. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't have the features that I want on my server running. I have the features that my community votes for and pays for. If I had my own way, I wouldn't have betting on my server, but that's what my crowd really want, so that's what they get. What's getting on my skin, is that out there, there are a few vocal people who keep shouting But we only need XYZ to admin the server and anyone who runs these plugins - well that's their problem, Valve shouldn't waste their time on these people Great. Bully for you. You run vanilla servers and that's what you're players want. But the rest of don't have vanilla servers - and that is a lot of us. It's not like the server operators just insist on running this stuff, it's what the players in their communities want. The bottom line is that most servers run these plugins and we'll never get away from that. If Valve put a pre-release beta in place, 1 hour of their time, could save thousands of man hours that the server operators have to waste. Cheers. Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Munky Judder Sent: 24 May 2007 09:40 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands I dont think its realistic for Valve to try and support every type of script or plugin...I meant just concentrate on the admin side of things. Kick and Ban are far too excessive for the majority of servers and rcon is very user unfriendly. It quite reasonable to suggest a Valve Admin plugin as this is a commercially viable idea if its payed for by server operators. You also wouldnt have 3000 PO'ed admins everytime there was a patch, spamming up their emails or bitching on their forums Valve just broke something if its official. TBH though I think the days of CS:S are numbered if players opinions are being ignored.but what do I know :) From: Chris Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 03:42:03 +0100 But they won't do it and even if they did. It would be a nightmare. What features go into the standard stock admin GUI then? Because if a requested feature doesn't have an obvious effect on the average desperately in need of Ritalin, server-hopping 13 year old, your voice will be drowned out and out gunned by the masses, most of whom will never admin a proper public standalone server. No disrespect to Valve, but when they find out by reading some srcds forum that a feature would be real cool it will get bottom priority below everything else. In the end, like always, it will be the independent plugin makers that knock out the features. Can you seriously see Valve ever getting around to making a plugin that has all of the features of Mani, Beetles and Matties plugins? Not to mention all the others out there made for sourcemod? And even if they made something one quarter as good. *SOME* of those people, who love vanilla servers would then spend most of their time convincing Valve that they should do a better job of deliberately breaking 3rd party plugins AND that beta's are a waste of time. Now consider the other
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
Myth : Most server operators want plugins to be able to admin. Fact : Most server ADMINS want plugins to be able to admin Fact : Server operators want 3rd party plugins to offer variation over and above the standard vanilla version of the game AND OR to provide additional content to the classic game - e.g. customised players skins, props etc etc etc. So please please please with sugar on top, stop presenting a case where we only need certain functions to admin. It's not about what server operators need for their admins to admin the server with. It's about what tricks server operators need to install on their servers, to keep their players happy and that statistically, is most server operators. Manis plugin, isn't just about admin on the server. There are plenty of super-slim plugins out there that take up precious few resources and allow just bare basic admin...yet most server operators are plumping for Mani's plugin, because it's got those lovely bells and whistles that the players love. So please. You can talk all you want about nice little official server plugins from Valve. It won't change anything. Tomorrow, the day after, the month after, the year after, most of us will still be using 3rd party plugins because they offer the kind of functionality that the players wantand if by that time Valve still doesn't do a pre-release beta, nothing would have changed. We'll all still be posting on forums and mailing lists, bitching about Valve updates breaking our plugins. Cheers Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keeper Sent: 24 May 2007 13:47 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Valve has given us the interface for plugins. Most plugins, however go beyond this and reach into the memory to do special things like burn, teleport, etc... In fact, an admin plugin doesn't require any special coding that usually breaks with updates. Just giving the server operators the ability to allow clients to control the server without rcon access is easily done, and can be stable. I don't think it's reasonable to expect server operators to pay for admin features. It will either be done by valve, or by 3rd party for free. Somebody just has to come up with one that doesn't include all of the extra stuff. I have one coming out for HL2DM, but it wouldn't be good for CS:S... I sort of agree on the days being numbered, but lately I've actually seen valve responding to concerns. I just don't think they have a good way to address concerns brought to light by both players and server operators. I recently had a conversation with valve and let them know that playgamesound didn't work with the client restriction, but play did. They responded that it should work and could I verify it for them. Once I did they responded: That certainly sounds like a bug then, I will get the team to check this out. This has been an issue since the release of the cl_restrict_server_commands CVAR. If they had a system of good communication with bug tracking, then I think most of the problems we see as players/operators would be taken care of. Keeper -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Munky Judder Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:40 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands I dont think its realistic for Valve to try and support every type of script or plugin...I meant just concentrate on the admin side of things. Kick and Ban are far too excessive for the majority of servers and rcon is very user unfriendly. It quite reasonable to suggest a Valve Admin plugin as this is a commercially viable idea if its payed for by server operators. You also wouldnt have 3000 PO'ed admins everytime there was a patch, spamming up their emails or bitching on their forums Valve just broke something if its official. TBH though I think the days of CS:S are numbered if players opinions are being ignored.but what do I know :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
If you want to be grateful for crumbs at the table, that's your problem mate. Unless Valve puts a proper system in place where there is published procedures, where a beta is done for all updates, one beta just because it helps Valve's nerves, means absolutely nothing to me. I will be testing my servers on this beta when I get the chance, but I don't have to. As long as the plugin developers test then great. If it's not practical to run a beta on every update, it's not practical to run Steam, a system where thousands of servers are updated overnight, without a proper beta test. Also, the person you are replying to, is merely stating fact. He didn't reply back OMFG Valve, you nooblets, you've broken Mani!, he's just reporting back that Mani is broke, so the rest of us can investigate. This is the problem. Unless Valve have a procedure that guarantees to the plugin developers that certain code is going to go live, then why would the plugin developers patch against it, unless they know for certain, that it's the exact code that's going to go live? Alfred keeps maintaining that it's not practical for Valve to do betas for every update. It's only not practical, because they haven't bothered to design a system that makes it practical. Cheers. Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: 17 May 2007 12:17 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Dudes All this stuff is a pretty big change to the SRCDS engine It is probably primarly due to all the changes that were required that are simply breaking the mods. Gawd, some of you talk like you never had to go through this before /sigh At least this time you are getting a shot at it with a beta, rather than waking up one day and finding your servers completely trashed by a SRCDS you didn't even know was coming sheesh On 5/17/07, Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would still Like to hear it from valve. Are they going to allow Custom Commands? Ray At 06:26 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: It appears so Ray. Mani is now completely useless :( From: Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:01 -0400 the new beta looks to be blocking all client commands now.. Why are commands like votemaps etc (NON VALVE) commands getting blocked now?? is this intended Alfred? Ray ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Play your part in making history - Email Britain! http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
TBH I don't get why valve can't come up with an GUI version of RCONwhy use Mani if theres something with Valves name on italso it wouldnt break every damn update. Still that would be common sense wouldnt it. Stuck perpetually playing catchup seems silly when the goalposts keep moving. Munky From: Chris Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:51:16 +0100 If you want to be grateful for crumbs at the table, that's your problem mate. Unless Valve puts a proper system in place where there is published procedures, where a beta is done for all updates, one beta just because it helps Valve's nerves, means absolutely nothing to me. I will be testing my servers on this beta when I get the chance, but I don't have to. As long as the plugin developers test then great. If it's not practical to run a beta on every update, it's not practical to run Steam, a system where thousands of servers are updated overnight, without a proper beta test. Also, the person you are replying to, is merely stating fact. He didn't reply back OMFG Valve, you nooblets, you've broken Mani!, he's just reporting back that Mani is broke, so the rest of us can investigate. This is the problem. Unless Valve have a procedure that guarantees to the plugin developers that certain code is going to go live, then why would the plugin developers patch against it, unless they know for certain, that it's the exact code that's going to go live? Alfred keeps maintaining that it's not practical for Valve to do betas for every update. It's only not practical, because they haven't bothered to design a system that makes it practical. Cheers. Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: 17 May 2007 12:17 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Dudes All this stuff is a pretty big change to the SRCDS engine It is probably primarly due to all the changes that were required that are simply breaking the mods. Gawd, some of you talk like you never had to go through this before /sigh At least this time you are getting a shot at it with a beta, rather than waking up one day and finding your servers completely trashed by a SRCDS you didn't even know was coming sheesh On 5/17/07, Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would still Like to hear it from valve. Are they going to allow Custom Commands? Ray At 06:26 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: It appears so Ray. Mani is now completely useless :( From: Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:01 -0400 the new beta looks to be blocking all client commands now.. Why are commands like votemaps etc (NON VALVE) commands getting blocked now?? is this intended Alfred? Ray ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Play your part in making history - Email Britain! http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ New, exclusive and FREE - Download Madonna's Hey You now! http://www.liveearth.msn.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
They was going to. The wiki pages for it still exist, but it looks like the project was abandoned. Besides, no one really wants Valve to get involved in a server admin tool because 3rd party developers are doing a real good job with them. What a lot of server operators want, is a proper beta program where all new updates from Valve are run for a set system so everyone, including the plugin developers can see exactly is what on the horizon. Leave Valve to update the actual game functionality, because us server admins are tired of trying to get ourselves heard over the server-hopping 13 year olds, who think server admins are worse that the police or traffic wardens.that's not Valves fault - that's the way it is. That's the way the cookie crumbles, that's the way the chips have landed yada yada yada. Server admins are best off served by the 3rd party plugin developer community, if only Valve would concede that, the whole thing would work, if they bothered to implement a proper beta system where all new updates are pre-published so that the plugin community can patch their plugins against what Valve is releasing. If Valve launched an official admin tool. We would be forever sitting here begging them for this that and the other and we would be bitching with the normal gaming punters for airtime, trying to convince Valve that certain server features are more important than a HDR release of a certain map. No thanks. An official beta program is a server admins wet dream come true. Does Valve still think it's not practical? My C.V is in the post. Cheers. Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Munky Judder Sent: 19 May 2007 14:10 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands TBH I don't get why valve can't come up with an GUI version of RCONwhy use Mani if theres something with Valves name on italso it wouldnt break every damn update. Still that would be common sense wouldnt it. Stuck perpetually playing catchup seems silly when the goalposts keep moving. Munky From: Chris Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:51:16 +0100 If you want to be grateful for crumbs at the table, that's your problem mate. Unless Valve puts a proper system in place where there is published procedures, where a beta is done for all updates, one beta just because it helps Valve's nerves, means absolutely nothing to me. I will be testing my servers on this beta when I get the chance, but I don't have to. As long as the plugin developers test then great. If it's not practical to run a beta on every update, it's not practical to run Steam, a system where thousands of servers are updated overnight, without a proper beta test. Also, the person you are replying to, is merely stating fact. He didn't reply back OMFG Valve, you nooblets, you've broken Mani!, he's just reporting back that Mani is broke, so the rest of us can investigate. This is the problem. Unless Valve have a procedure that guarantees to the plugin developers that certain code is going to go live, then why would the plugin developers patch against it, unless they know for certain, that it's the exact code that's going to go live? Alfred keeps maintaining that it's not practical for Valve to do betas for every update. It's only not practical, because they haven't bothered to design a system that makes it practical. Cheers. Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: 17 May 2007 12:17 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Dudes All this stuff is a pretty big change to the SRCDS engine It is probably primarly due to all the changes that were required that are simply breaking the mods. Gawd, some of you talk like you never had to go through this before /sigh At least this time you are getting a shot at it with a beta, rather than waking up one day and finding your servers completely trashed by a SRCDS you didn't even know was coming sheesh On 5/17/07, Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would still Like to hear it from valve. Are they going to allow Custom Commands? Ray At 06:26 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: It appears so Ray. Mani is now completely useless :( From: Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:01 -0400 the new beta looks to be blocking all client commands now.. Why are commands like votemaps etc (NON VALVE) commands getting blocked now?? is this intended Alfred? Ray ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives
Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
If you are going to speak for 'us server admins' and such I think it would be a good idea to provide some sources upon which you base your statements. If you can not, I suggest you speak for yourself, or not at all. --- Regime http://www.livebythegun.com/ Chris Barnett wrote: They was going to. The wiki pages for it still exist, but it looks like the project was abandoned. Besides, no one really wants Valve to get involved in a server admin tool because 3rd party developers are doing a real good job with them. What a lot of server operators want, is a proper beta program where all new updates from Valve are run for a set system so everyone, including the plugin developers can see exactly is what on the horizon. Leave Valve to update the actual game functionality, because us server admins are tired of trying to get ourselves heard over the server-hopping 13 year olds, who think server admins are worse that the police or traffic wardens.that's not Valves fault - that's the way it is. That's the way the cookie crumbles, that's the way the chips have landed yada yada yada. Server admins are best off served by the 3rd party plugin developer community, if only Valve would concede that, the whole thing would work, if they bothered to implement a proper beta system where all new updates are pre-published so that the plugin community can patch their plugins against what Valve is releasing. If Valve launched an official admin tool. We would be forever sitting here begging them for this that and the other and we would be bitching with the normal gaming punters for airtime, trying to convince Valve that certain server features are more important than a HDR release of a certain map. No thanks. An official beta program is a server admins wet dream come true. Does Valve still think it's not practical? My C.V is in the post. Cheers. Chris. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
You can make all the suggestions you want. It's my opinion that most server admins want to keep their third party plugins working, rather than Valve push out updates overnight that break them. There is no official links I would ever be able to muster up, that proves what features want most. But hey, it's a good job it's just a Valve mailing list and not the UN security council. What do you want me to prove next? That server admins want to keep their servers up and running? Any server admin that doesn't want a beat program, quite simply doesn't know he wants it yet. Hang around for another few years of broken plugins and servers overnight and believe me, all you want is a freakin beta program. If by that stage you happen to be in that small percentage that don't, it's only because you run little or no plugins, which ain't exactly the norm for a server operator. Cheers, Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Regime Sent: 19 May 2007 19:33 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands If you are going to speak for 'us server admins' and such I think it would be a good idea to provide some sources upon which you base your statements. If you can not, I suggest you speak for yourself, or not at all. --- Regime http://www.livebythegun.com/ Chris Barnett wrote: They was going to. The wiki pages for it still exist, but it looks like the project was abandoned. Besides, no one really wants Valve to get involved in a server admin tool because 3rd party developers are doing a real good job with them. What a lot of server operators want, is a proper beta program where all new updates from Valve are run for a set system so everyone, including the plugin developers can see exactly is what on the horizon. Leave Valve to update the actual game functionality, because us server admins are tired of trying to get ourselves heard over the server-hopping 13 year olds, who think server admins are worse that the police or traffic wardens.that's not Valves fault - that's the way it is. That's the way the cookie crumbles, that's the way the chips have landed yada yada yada. Server admins are best off served by the 3rd party plugin developer community, if only Valve would concede that, the whole thing would work, if they bothered to implement a proper beta system where all new updates are pre-published so that the plugin community can patch their plugins against what Valve is releasing. If Valve launched an official admin tool. We would be forever sitting here begging them for this that and the other and we would be bitching with the normal gaming punters for airtime, trying to convince Valve that certain server features are more important than a HDR release of a certain map. No thanks. An official beta program is a server admins wet dream come true. Does Valve still think it's not practical? My C.V is in the post. Cheers. Chris. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
Well I say if Valve wants to make a server admin tool and other plugins so we can admin our servers while at the same collect all the important data like hits to the various parts of the body, then I am all for it. But they don't so we have to use these 3rd party plugins in order to please the players. The players want all the bells and whistles that just do not come with a stock DODS Server. It would make my job easier if I did not have to add so many plugins. Just my two cents worth! - Original Message - From: Chris Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands You can make all the suggestions you want. It's my opinion that most server admins want to keep their third party plugins working, rather than Valve push out updates overnight that break them. There is no official links I would ever be able to muster up, that proves what features want most. But hey, it's a good job it's just a Valve mailing list and not the UN security council. What do you want me to prove next? That server admins want to keep their servers up and running? Any server admin that doesn't want a beat program, quite simply doesn't know he wants it yet. Hang around for another few years of broken plugins and servers overnight and believe me, all you want is a freakin beta program. If by that stage you happen to be in that small percentage that don't, it's only because you run little or no plugins, which ain't exactly the norm for a server operator. Cheers, Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Regime Sent: 19 May 2007 19:33 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands If you are going to speak for 'us server admins' and such I think it would be a good idea to provide some sources upon which you base your statements. If you can not, I suggest you speak for yourself, or not at all. --- Regime http://www.livebythegun.com/ Chris Barnett wrote: They was going to. The wiki pages for it still exist, but it looks like the project was abandoned. Besides, no one really wants Valve to get involved in a server admin tool because 3rd party developers are doing a real good job with them. What a lot of server operators want, is a proper beta program where all new updates from Valve are run for a set system so everyone, including the plugin developers can see exactly is what on the horizon. Leave Valve to update the actual game functionality, because us server admins are tired of trying to get ourselves heard over the server-hopping 13 year olds, who think server admins are worse that the police or traffic wardens.that's not Valves fault - that's the way it is. That's the way the cookie crumbles, that's the way the chips have landed yada yada yada. Server admins are best off served by the 3rd party plugin developer community, if only Valve would concede that, the whole thing would work, if they bothered to implement a proper beta system where all new updates are pre-published so that the plugin community can patch their plugins against what Valve is releasing. If Valve launched an official admin tool. We would be forever sitting here begging them for this that and the other and we would be bitching with the normal gaming punters for airtime, trying to convince Valve that certain server features are more important than a HDR release of a certain map. No thanks. An official beta program is a server admins wet dream come true. Does Valve still think it's not practical? My C.V is in the post. Cheers. Chris. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
But they won't do it and even if they did. It would be a nightmare. What features go into the standard stock admin GUI then? Because if a requested feature doesn't have an obvious effect on the average desperately in need of Ritalin, server-hopping 13 year old, your voice will be drowned out and out gunned by the masses, most of whom will never admin a proper public standalone server. No disrespect to Valve, but when they find out by reading some srcds forum that a feature would be real cool it will get bottom priority below everything else. In the end, like always, it will be the independent plugin makers that knock out the features. Can you seriously see Valve ever getting around to making a plugin that has all of the features of Mani, Beetles and Matties plugins? Not to mention all the others out there made for sourcemod? And even if they made something one quarter as good. *SOME* of those people, who love vanilla servers would then spend most of their time convincing Valve that they should do a better job of deliberately breaking 3rd party plugins AND that beta's are a waste of time. Now consider the other option - one that is actually possible for Valve to do. Run a beta for every SRCDS update. That alone, would solve most of my problems. I could actually invest time into my server, serious time, without worrying that everything I'm going to build it on, is someday going to be ruined by an update. I'm not asking for endless consultations between Valve and the community. I'm asking for Valve to give us 2 weeks notice on all updates. EG. Today is the 20th of May. This is what we are sending out on the 3rd of June. You have two weeks to test and patch against it. Have fun boys and girls. That simple. If they want to take feedback, they can, but I couldn't give two monkeys whether they do or don't. Because quite frankly no matter what Valve does, the plugin operators can patch to make sure their stuff still works and I can live a little longer in the knowledge that man months of work isn't going to go down the toilet, with me begging the plugin operators to patch within hours rather than days. Anyone who doesn't care, doesn't run a freakin server loaded up with plugins that have a lot of time invested in them. Cheers. Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scumbucket Sent: 20 May 2007 03:04 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Well I say if Valve wants to make a server admin tool and other plugins so we can admin our servers while at the same collect all the important data like hits to the various parts of the body, then I am all for it. But they don't so we have to use these 3rd party plugins in order to please the players. The players want all the bells and whistles that just do not come with a stock DODS Server. It would make my job easier if I did not have to add so many plugins. Just my two cents worth! - Original Message - From: Chris Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands You can make all the suggestions you want. It's my opinion that most server admins want to keep their third party plugins working, rather than Valve push out updates overnight that break them. There is no official links I would ever be able to muster up, that proves what features want most. But hey, it's a good job it's just a Valve mailing list and not the UN security council. What do you want me to prove next? That server admins want to keep their servers up and running? Any server admin that doesn't want a beat program, quite simply doesn't know he wants it yet. Hang around for another few years of broken plugins and servers overnight and believe me, all you want is a freakin beta program. If by that stage you happen to be in that small percentage that don't, it's only because you run little or no plugins, which ain't exactly the norm for a server operator. Cheers, Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Regime Sent: 19 May 2007 19:33 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands If you are going to speak for 'us server admins' and such I think it would be a good idea to provide some sources upon which you base your statements. If you can not, I suggest you speak for yourself, or not at all. --- Regime http://www.livebythegun.com/ Chris Barnett wrote: They was going to. The wiki pages for it still exist, but it looks like the project was abandoned. Besides, no one really wants Valve to get involved in a server admin tool because 3rd party developers are doing a real good job with them. What a lot of server operators want, is a proper beta program where all new updates from Valve are run for a set system so everyone, including the plugin developers can
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
It appears so Ray. Mani is now completely useless :( From: Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:01 -0400 the new beta looks to be blocking all client commands now.. Why are commands like votemaps etc (NON VALVE) commands getting blocked now?? is this intended Alfred? Ray ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Play your part in making history - Email Britain! http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
I would still Like to hear it from valve. Are they going to allow Custom Commands? Ray At 06:26 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: It appears so Ray. Mani is now completely useless :( From: Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:01 -0400 the new beta looks to be blocking all client commands now.. Why are commands like votemaps etc (NON VALVE) commands getting blocked now?? is this intended Alfred? Ray ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Play your part in making history - Email Britain! http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Dudes All this stuff is a pretty big change to the SRCDS engine It is probably primarly due to all the changes that were required that are simply breaking the mods. Gawd, some of you talk like you never had to go through this before /sigh At least this time you are getting a shot at it with a beta, rather than waking up one day and finding your servers completely trashed by a SRCDS you didn't even know was coming sheesh On 5/17/07, Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would still Like to hear it from valve. Are they going to allow Custom Commands? Ray At 06:26 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: It appears so Ray. Mani is now completely useless :( From: Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:01 -0400 the new beta looks to be blocking all client commands now.. Why are commands like votemaps etc (NON VALVE) commands getting blocked now?? is this intended Alfred? Ray ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Play your part in making history - Email Britain! http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
Transcript from a conversation with Alfred. Start at bottom. From: Alfred Reynolds Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:15 PM To: Daniel Subject: RE: cl_restrict_server_commands (white-list) We will be adding functionality to the engine to list cvars/commands based on the flags they have set, this will let you ask the engine for the list of commands/cvars you can run from a plugin. From: Daniel Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:20 AM To: Alfred Reynolds Subject: RE: cl_restrict_server_commands (white-list) Hi Alfred, Thanks for your response. Its unfortunate you feel that this could break the trust of users, as I've only every used it to enhance their play experience. Is there a list of current commands that *WILL* be allowed? Many Thanks. Daniel From: Alfred Reynolds Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 6:51 PM To: Daniel Subject: RE: cl_restrict_server_commands (white-list) Connect will not be added, we want users to have confidence that the server they choose to join is the one they end up on. - Alfred From: Daniel Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:18 AM To: Alfred Subject: cl_restrict_server_commands (white-list) Hi Alfred, I read on the following post http://www.csnation.net/comments.php?id=8720 that you would be taking suggestions for client commands that will be white listed under the new perma-cl_restrict_server_commands 1 implementation of the source engine. I am currently unaware of which commands *ARE* on the white-list, however I would like to suggest the following command be added and apologize if it has already made the list. We have a large number of server and the connect command is used in order to move people between our hosts to balance loads (or based on location, such as moving a player to lower latency server). We've used it pretty successfully in the past and have not had any complaints. I feel it meets your won't let you exploit a user's game process standard and I can't think of a malicious use of the command. I would appreciate your consideration of this command on the white-list. Many thanks Daniel ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] It's nice to hear they won't be adding connect that shit was annoying :) On 5/17/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transcript from a conversation with Alfred. Start at bottom. From: Alfred Reynolds Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:15 PM To: Daniel Subject: RE: cl_restrict_server_commands (white-list) We will be adding functionality to the engine to list cvars/commands based on the flags they have set, this will let you ask the engine for the list of commands/cvars you can run from a plugin. From: Daniel Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:20 AM To: Alfred Reynolds Subject: RE: cl_restrict_server_commands (white-list) Hi Alfred, Thanks for your response. Its unfortunate you feel that this could break the trust of users, as I've only every used it to enhance their play experience. Is there a list of current commands that *WILL* be allowed? Many Thanks. Daniel From: Alfred Reynolds Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 6:51 PM To: Daniel Subject: RE: cl_restrict_server_commands (white-list) Connect will not be added, we want users to have confidence that the server they choose to join is the one they end up on. - Alfred From: Daniel Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:18 AM To: Alfred Subject: cl_restrict_server_commands (white-list) Hi Alfred, I read on the following post http://www.csnation.net/comments.php?id=8720 that you would be taking suggestions for client commands that will be white listed under the new perma-cl_restrict_server_commands 1 implementation of the source engine. I am currently unaware of which commands *ARE* on the white-list, however I would like to suggest the following command be added and apologize if it has already made the list. We have a large number of server and the connect command is used in order to move people between our hosts to balance loads (or based on location, such as moving a player to lower latency server). We've used it pretty successfully in the past and have not had any complaints. I feel it meets your won't let you exploit a user's game process standard and I can't think of a malicious use of the command. I would appreciate your consideration of this command on the white-list. Many thanks Daniel ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands
I agree fully. Jason -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 6:17 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Dudes All this stuff is a pretty big change to the SRCDS engine It is probably primarly due to all the changes that were required that are simply breaking the mods. Gawd, some of you talk like you never had to go through this before /sigh At least this time you are getting a shot at it with a beta, rather than waking up one day and finding your servers completely trashed by a SRCDS you didn't even know was coming sheesh On 5/17/07, Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would still Like to hear it from valve. Are they going to allow Custom Commands? Ray At 06:26 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: It appears so Ray. Mani is now completely useless :( From: Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:01 -0400 the new beta looks to be blocking all client commands now.. Why are commands like votemaps etc (NON VALVE) commands getting blocked now?? is this intended Alfred? Ray ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Play your part in making history - Email Britain! http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Blocking Client Commands
the new beta looks to be blocking all client commands now.. Why are commands like votemaps etc (NON VALVE) commands getting blocked now?? is this intended Alfred? Ray ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
