Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:18:56AM +, Rich Kaethler wrote: If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. So if I add people who are currently on the server to my block list, then reconnect, it will kick them if it's set to 4? Or on option 2/3, I go add a player to my blocklist before they are fully connected to server, thus kicking them once they are fully connected? Sounds like an easy to abuse feature, unless I am completely misunderstanding it. In my opinion it's bad for admin stuff like kicks to be applied to a player, other than a server group vote. Getting kicked from some well-meaning servers automatically because someone decided to block someone else for no apparent reason is just bad. Perhaps it'd be a viable and more safe option to have the server automatically ignore/mute chat from a user being recieved by a user if they're on their blocklist? This way anyone who blocks someone for something such as harassment would not be able to harass them anymore, and they wouldn't be kicked from servers simply because someone on there blocked them. Basically, it'd just be a local mute so the person could still talk on the server, but only the one who chose to block that user wouldn't be able to see or hear any of it. Please correct me if any of these interpretations are wrong. Thanks. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
I would be extremely careful about how this is ultimately implemented in the production build. I am glad this is being introduced first in the Beta version. The Voogru servers are infamous for having blocked all of Something Awful users via their Lost Continents steam group, who, at least in the pre-hats era were a very large portion of the TF2 community. By banning anyone in the Lost Continents group, the Voogru servers were able to ban 2500-3500 players instantly and forever, despite a particular individual's actual interest or activity in the group. The Voogru servers have also introduced a number of innovative mods (e.g. Dodgeball) that can only be found on their servers, making it difficult if not impossible to play these game modes once you've been blacklisted. This has caused quite a bit of grief over the last four years since, you need to be in the Lost Continents group to gain access to features on their servers, but causes you to be blacklisted by another set of servers entirely. Even today I can't log in to Voogru servers after three years because of this group ban. To put it another way, what if three or four major server groups decided to ban anyone in a Reddit-related group? There aren't a whole lot, but there are enough general interest or large community groups out there that you could end up seeing admins adding Reddit/4chan/Something Awful/Digg etc general interest Steam Groups to the list, blocking huge chunks of your High Value playerbase simply out of spite. What if someone decided to ban everyone in the Holiday Sale Community Group (1.34 million users)? The Steam Summer Camp Group (460,000 users)? the Official Team Fortress 2 group (315,000 users?). Maybe consider introducing a bug that causes this feature to work only with groups containing less than 100 or 250 users? This is a great feature that has long been requested, but perhaps there should be some type of limit placed on this feature? I am in charge of a seperate 2,700 user steam group and would hate to see one or two users who I don't even know get the entire group blacklisted from the Voogru servers or similar. Most of the users in my group, I've never personally spoken to, and have no way of enforcing their behavior. Groups with less than 100 people in them, however, probably at least once a year speak to each other. Anyways, food for thought. It's always interesting to debate the big picture results of these kinds of changes. Thanks for introducing new community management features, I think this is a feature we've all thought about at least once in the past, and it's exciting to see more community management features being implemented. Hopefully this line of thought will continue with your CS:GO series. Chad On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.comwrote: We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new “sv_steamgroup” convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set “sv_steamblockingcheck” to 2. With this setting only members of the group that “owns” the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and “sv_steamblockingcheck” is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. ** ** Here are the details of the options: ** ** sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server ** ** sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group’s ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. ** ** Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me.** ** ** ** ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
One problem I see is for semi-large groups like ours: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/mypayload 1) If one member has all the admins blocked, none of the admins will be able to join the server. 2) If the member gets removed from the group there's nothing to stop them from creating a F2P account, re-joining the group (since it's public) and causing the same problem all over again. 3) If a user is blocked from a server, they'll just create and use a F2P account, avoiding the block entirely. Result: An annoying feature that's doing nothing other than allowing users to grief others and endless problems for admins. Users should never be permitted to block other users from servers they do not own or control, I think it's been well established in the past that something like that will be abused. We have around 12 admins, only one has access to the server console, if he's not around it could be a few days before the member preventing the admins from joining is removed but they could just rejoin the group using a F2P account and cause the same issue. If anything this feature should allow admins to give extra's to group members e.g. allowing sprays or in-game voting options if they are disabled, not blocking people from joining because of some other idiot. Just my 2c. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Chad Hedstrom Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 2:45 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; r...@valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update I would be extremely careful about how this is ultimately implemented in the production build. I am glad this is being introduced first in the Beta version. The Voogru servers are infamous for having blocked all of Something Awful users via their Lost Continents steam group, who, at least in the pre-hats era were a very large portion of the TF2 community. By banning anyone in the Lost Continents group, the Voogru servers were able to ban 2500-3500 players instantly and forever, despite a particular individual's actual interest or activity in the group. The Voogru servers have also introduced a number of innovative mods (e.g. Dodgeball) that can only be found on their servers, making it difficult if not impossible to play these game modes once you've been blacklisted. This has caused quite a bit of grief over the last four years since, you need to be in the Lost Continents group to gain access to features on their servers, but causes you to be blacklisted by another set of servers entirely. Even today I can't log in to Voogru servers after three years because of this group ban. To put it another way, what if three or four major server groups decided to ban anyone in a Reddit-related group? There aren't a whole lot, but there are enough general interest or large community groups out there that you could end up seeing admins adding Reddit/4chan/Something Awful/Digg etc general interest Steam Groups to the list, blocking huge chunks of your High Value playerbase simply out of spite. What if someone decided to ban everyone in the Holiday Sale Community Group (1.34 million users)? The Steam Summer Camp Group (460,000 users)? the Official Team Fortress 2 group (315,000 users?). Maybe consider introducing a bug that causes this feature to work only with groups containing less than 100 or 250 users? This is a great feature that has long been requested, but perhaps there should be some type of limit placed on this feature? I am in charge of a seperate 2,700 user steam group and would hate to see one or two users who I don't even know get the entire group blacklisted from the Voogru servers or similar. Most of the users in my group, I've never personally spoken to, and have no way of enforcing their behavior. Groups with less than 100 people in them, however, probably at least once a year speak to each other. Anyways, food for thought. It's always interesting to debate the big picture results of these kinds of changes. Thanks for introducing new community management features, I think this is a feature we've all thought about at least once in the past, and it's exciting to see more community management features being implemented. Hopefully this line of thought will continue with your CS:GO series. Chad On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.com wrote: We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
It seems like the only useful use case I can think of with this feature is to create a private steam group of admins for a server. Then any user the admins block would be kicked from the server. However, if it's only checking blocked users of connected players this wouldn't be altogether useful. What exactly were the use cases Valve saw when coming up with this feature, Rich? On 3/15/2012 11:48 PM, dmex wrote: One problem I see is for semi-large groups like ours: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/mypayload 1) If one member has all the admins blocked, none of the admins will be able to join the server. 2) If the member gets removed from the group there's nothing to stop them from creating a F2P account, re-joining the group (since it's public) and causing the same problem all over again. 3) If a user is blocked from a server, they'll just create and use a F2P account, avoiding the block entirely. Result: An annoying feature that's doing nothing other than allowing users to grief others and endless problems for admins. Users should never be permitted to block other users from servers they do not own or control, I think it's been well established in the past that something like that will be abused. We have around 12 admins, only one has access to the server console, if he's not around it could be a few days before the member preventing the admins from joining is removed but they could just rejoin the group using a F2P account and cause the same issue. If anything this feature should allow admins to give extra's to group members e.g. allowing sprays or in-game voting options if they are disabled, not blocking people from joining because of some other idiot. Just my 2c. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
This feature was originally implemented for Left 4 Dead 2. There are some players that seem to be complete a-holes and only harrassing other people. It works great there, stopping those players coming in to teamkill everyone but i fail to see use of this for a regular server that is open to everyone. Unless you want to have those same dudes blocked in TF2, if they play it too or if someone keeps harrassing you over Steam. I assume with this setting only members of the group that owns the server means group admins? Is this going to be affecting quickplay? Someone might add someone to blacklist just for laughs to drop them off from a server if server isn't properly configured. -ics 16.3.2012 8:54, Russell Smith kirjoitti: It seems like the only useful use case I can think of with this feature is to create a private steam group of admins for a server. Then any user the admins block would be kicked from the server. However, if it's only checking blocked users of connected players this wouldn't be altogether useful. What exactly were the use cases Valve saw when coming up with this feature, Rich? On 3/15/2012 11:48 PM, dmex wrote: One problem I see is for semi-large groups like ours: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/mypayload 1) If one member has all the admins blocked, none of the admins will be able to join the server. 2) If the member gets removed from the group there's nothing to stop them from creating a F2P account, re-joining the group (since it's public) and causing the same problem all over again. 3) If a user is blocked from a server, they'll just create and use a F2P account, avoiding the block entirely. Result: An annoying feature that's doing nothing other than allowing users to grief others and endless problems for admins. Users should never be permitted to block other users from servers they do not own or control, I think it's been well established in the past that something like that will be abused. We have around 12 admins, only one has access to the server console, if he's not around it could be a few days before the member preventing the admins from joining is removed but they could just rejoin the group using a F2P account and cause the same issue. If anything this feature should allow admins to give extra's to group members e.g. allowing sprays or in-game voting options if they are disabled, not blocking people from joining because of some other idiot. Just my 2c. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
Valve implemented this feature in Left 4 Dead 2 a little while back. It's been somewhat controversial with a vocal minority but has ultimately proven itself useful to the rest of the community. Personally I'm a huge fan of it. There is a thread on SPUF in which Chet Faliszek offers a little insight into your question. http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28547471postcount=237 TF2 is obviously very different than L4D2 and the feature has already been tuned a little to better meet the needs of a server admin. In fact, if I remember correctly in L4D2 it only applies to official servers(I think). But as a L4D2 server operator I don't believe there are any options/CVars) yet available for how a server should handle the block list, which is a feature of Steam Community and not the L4D2 dedicated server. Hopefully everyone here provides some good feedback instead of paranoid conspiracy theories like what some users dreamed up in that thread. Seriously, some of it is priceless. Also of note from Chet's post is that Valve personally contacts these undesirables and works to change their behavior. So for serial abusers of this feature in TF2 you can bet Valve will be in contact with them as well. -Richard Eid On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:54 AM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.uswrote: It seems like the only useful use case I can think of with this feature is to create a private steam group of admins for a server. Then any user the admins block would be kicked from the server. However, if it's only checking blocked users of connected players this wouldn't be altogether useful. What exactly were the use cases Valve saw when coming up with this feature, Rich? On 3/15/2012 11:48 PM, dmex wrote: One problem I see is for semi-large groups like ours: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/mypayload ** ** 1) If one member has all the admins blocked, none of the admins will be able to join the server. 2) If the member gets removed from the group there's nothing to stop them from creating a F2P account, re-joining the group (since it's public) and causing the same problem all over again. 3) If a user is blocked from a server, they'll just create and use a F2P account, avoiding the block entirely. ** ** Result: An annoying feature that's doing nothing other than allowing users to grief others and endless problems for admins. ** ** Users should never be permitted to block other users from servers they do not own or control, I think it's been well established in the past that something like that will be abused. ** ** We have around 12 admins, only one has access to the server console, if he's not around it could be a few days before the member preventing the admins from joining is removed but they could just rejoin the group using a F2P account and cause the same issue. If anything this feature should allow admins to give extra's to group members e.g. allowing sprays or in-game voting options if they are disabled, not blocking people from joining because of some other idiot. ** ** Just my 2c. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
I don't get it. Is this a feature or a new bug? I mean, who is interested in to give ordinary people kicking power? We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new sv_steamgroup convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set sv_steamblockingcheck to 2. With this setting only members of the group that owns the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and sv_steamblockingcheck is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. Here are the details of the options: sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group's ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
Is this supposed to be the solution to the increase of cheaters on TF2? That'd be a pretty shit solution. Where are the hardware bans? Le 16 mars 2012 08:43, Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.de a écrit : I don't get it. Is this a feature or a new bug? I mean, who is interested in to give ordinary people kicking power? We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new sv_steamgroup convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set sv_steamblockingcheck to 2. With this setting only members of the group that owns the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and sv_steamblockingcheck is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. Here are the details of the options: sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group's ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
I suspect this feature is more useful for any loosely adminstrated servers (Offical Valve servers), so in that regard it's good. For us who activly admins the servers though, it seems pointless, or at best... a poor substition for a proper ban system. And a bit dangerous to add, I seen users dislike each other over the most petty reasons in our community leading to blocks, yet not causing any trouble on the servers themselves to deserve to be blocked/banned. Although I agree that chat and voice from blocked users should be automatically muted ingame, although that's a feature that should be added clientside. ;) On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.comwrote: We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new “sv_steamgroup” convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set “sv_steamblockingcheck” to 2. With this setting only members of the group that “owns” the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and “sv_steamblockingcheck” is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. ** ** Here are the details of the options: ** ** sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server ** ** sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group’s ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. ** ** Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me.** ** ** ** ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
Then again, sv_steamblockingcheck 1 might be useful for plugin authors to hook in custom behavior depending on what users is blocking each other. :) On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Emil Larsson ail...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect this feature is more useful for any loosely adminstrated servers (Offical Valve servers), so in that regard it's good. For us who activly admins the servers though, it seems pointless, or at best... a poor substition for a proper ban system. And a bit dangerous to add, I seen users dislike each other over the most petty reasons in our community leading to blocks, yet not causing any trouble on the servers themselves to deserve to be blocked/banned. Although I agree that chat and voice from blocked users should be automatically muted ingame, although that's a feature that should be added clientside. ;) On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.comwrote: We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings.*** * It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new “sv_steamgroup” convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set “sv_steamblockingcheck” to 2. With this setting only members of the group that “owns” the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and “sv_steamblockingcheck” is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. ** ** Here are the details of the options: ** ** sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server ** ** sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group’s ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. ** ** Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me.* *** ** ** ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
That gives me an idea: make a plugin that gives you extra damage and powers vs. players you have blocked. Then see how toxic and alienated your community can become. -Alex Ogier On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Emil Larsson ail...@gmail.com wrote: Then again, sv_steamblockingcheck 1 might be useful for plugin authors to hook in custom behavior depending on what users is blocking each other. :) On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Emil Larsson ail...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect this feature is more useful for any loosely adminstrated servers (Offical Valve servers), so in that regard it's good. For us who activly admins the servers though, it seems pointless, or at best... a poor substition for a proper ban system. And a bit dangerous to add, I seen users dislike each other over the most petty reasons in our community leading to blocks, yet not causing any trouble on the servers themselves to deserve to be blocked/banned. Although I agree that chat and voice from blocked users should be automatically muted ingame, although that's a feature that should be added clientside. ;) On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.com wrote: We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new “sv_steamgroup” convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set “sv_steamblockingcheck” to 2. With this setting only members of the group that “owns” the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and “sv_steamblockingcheck” is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. Here are the details of the options: sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group’s ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
“The Voogru servers are infamous for having blocked all of Something Awful users via their Lost Continents steam group, who, at least in the pre-hats era were a very large portion of the TF2 community.” Perhaps they should have thought about that before sending tons of Goons to my servers in order to crash them and rage them. I didn’t exactly decide to ban thousands of people pre-emptively just for the heck of it. It also didn’t help that significant amounts of people previously banned from my servers were Goons as well. “By banning anyone in the Lost Continents group, the Voogru servers were able to ban 2500-3500 players instantly and forever, despite a particular individual's actual interest or activity in the group.” I don’t think people join rage and griefing groups by accident. With that said, I’m no longer doing checks to ban players for groups they are in. And most of the automatic bans from this era have been removed for some time now as well (just a few special cases remaining). If you are still banned from my servers it’s not from the automatic banning for groups, but perhaps for something else. I am interested if you are still banned from my servers. If you message me your steamid I will see if this ban is in place, and why. “To put it another way, what if three or four major server groups decided to ban anyone in a Reddit-related group?” It’s their loss. It means fewer players on their servers and the goal of the game is to get players. If you implement massive group bans for trivial or stupid reasons, your player traffic will suffer and the marketplace will take care of you. - Voogru. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Chad Hedstrom Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 2:45 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; r...@valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update I would be extremely careful about how this is ultimately implemented in the production build. I am glad this is being introduced first in the Beta version. The Voogru servers are infamous for having blocked all of Something Awful users via their Lost Continents steam group, who, at least in the pre-hats era were a very large portion of the TF2 community. By banning anyone in the Lost Continents group, the Voogru servers were able to ban 2500-3500 players instantly and forever, despite a particular individual's actual interest or activity in the group. The Voogru servers have also introduced a number of innovative mods (e.g. Dodgeball) that can only be found on their servers, making it difficult if not impossible to play these game modes once you've been blacklisted. This has caused quite a bit of grief over the last four years since, you need to be in the Lost Continents group to gain access to features on their servers, but causes you to be blacklisted by another set of servers entirely. Even today I can't log in to Voogru servers after three years because of this group ban. To put it another way, what if three or four major server groups decided to ban anyone in a Reddit-related group? There aren't a whole lot, but there are enough general interest or large community groups out there that you could end up seeing admins adding Reddit/4chan/Something Awful/Digg etc general interest Steam Groups to the list, blocking huge chunks of your High Value playerbase simply out of spite. What if someone decided to ban everyone in the Holiday Sale Community Group (1.34 million users)? The Steam Summer Camp Group (460,000 users)? the Official Team Fortress 2 group (315,000 users?). Maybe consider introducing a bug that causes this feature to work only with groups containing less than 100 or 250 users? This is a great feature that has long been requested, but perhaps there should be some type of limit placed on this feature? I am in charge of a seperate 2,700 user steam group and would hate to see one or two users who I don't even know get the entire group blacklisted from the Voogru servers or similar. Most of the users in my group, I've never personally spoken to, and have no way of enforcing their behavior. Groups with less than 100 people in them, however, probably at least once a year speak to each other. Anyways, food for thought. It's always interesting to debate the big picture results of these kinds of changes. Thanks for introducing new community management features, I think this is a feature we've all thought about at least once in the past, and it's exciting to see more community management features being implemented. Hopefully this line of thought will continue with your CS:GO series. Chad On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.com wrote: We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
It's like a less featured ban system. Base SERCDS already has a better implementation, not even talking about plugins like Sourcebans. And when Steam goes down (which is at least once a week, or more) everyone will be unbanned temporarily. This feature is not for big groups. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:54 AM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.uswrote: It seems like the only useful use case I can think of with this feature is to create a private steam group of admins for a server. Then any user the admins block would be kicked from the server. However, if it's only checking blocked users of connected players this wouldn't be altogether useful. What exactly were the use cases Valve saw when coming up with this feature, Rich? On 3/15/2012 11:48 PM, dmex wrote: One problem I see is for semi-large groups like ours: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/mypayload ** ** 1) If one member has all the admins blocked, none of the admins will be able to join the server. 2) If the member gets removed from the group there's nothing to stop them from creating a F2P account, re-joining the group (since it's public) and causing the same problem all over again. 3) If a user is blocked from a server, they'll just create and use a F2P account, avoiding the block entirely. ** ** Result: An annoying feature that's doing nothing other than allowing users to grief others and endless problems for admins. ** ** Users should never be permitted to block other users from servers they do not own or control, I think it's been well established in the past that something like that will be abused. ** ** We have around 12 admins, only one has access to the server console, if he's not around it could be a few days before the member preventing the admins from joining is removed but they could just rejoin the group using a F2P account and cause the same issue. If anything this feature should allow admins to give extra's to group members e.g. allowing sprays or in-game voting options if they are disabled, not blocking people from joining because of some other idiot. ** ** Just my 2c. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
Well, I think this underlines my point. Many people will join a popular group to gain access to some of it's features (whitelists in particular, my servers use a combination of both the Steam OpenID system and Steam Groups for this). A few bad apples from a group (perhaps 20 players) who represent 1% of a group can cause the rest of the group (thousands of users) to get banned from a server or group of popular servers. Being able to ban people for membership in a group that numbers in the thousands is too wide a brush; I think this solution is ideal for granular control of bad apples in a rage and griefing of groups in smaller size. Either the whole private Steam group invitation system needs to be completely re-thought, or some sort of size limits need to be placed on this feature. As it stands, it has a lot of potential for abuse by both sides. Also, my apologies for the problems caused by members of that group. I don't think the Lost Continents has ever advertised itself as a griefing group, but I'm glad the situation has sorted itself out. I've only heard the story third hand, after trying to log in to a Dodgeball server years ago. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
This is probably going to be implemented regardless of our comments. I can only see this causing more issues, and being a complete waste of development time, but that's my opinion. Provide the interface and make optional for what Valve plans to enable by default. The former has already been done (afaik, mind you it isn't very specific), along with the latter. Option 4 is absolutely poisonous. Thanks, Kyle. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:01 AM, Chad Hedstrom chad.hedst...@gmail.comwrote: Well, I think this underlines my point. Many people will join a popular group to gain access to some of it's features (whitelists in particular, my servers use a combination of both the Steam OpenID system and Steam Groups for this). A few bad apples from a group (perhaps 20 players) who represent 1% of a group can cause the rest of the group (thousands of users) to get banned from a server or group of popular servers. Being able to ban people for membership in a group that numbers in the thousands is too wide a brush; I think this solution is ideal for granular control of bad apples in a rage and griefing of groups in smaller size. Either the whole private Steam group invitation system needs to be completely re-thought, or some sort of size limits need to be placed on this feature. As it stands, it has a lot of potential for abuse by both sides. Also, my apologies for the problems caused by members of that group. I don't think the Lost Continents has ever advertised itself as a griefing group, but I'm glad the situation has sorted itself out. I've only heard the story third hand, after trying to log in to a Dodgeball server years ago. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
I think there is some confusion about how this works. First off, there is no kicking power. The check is only made on initial connection to the server. Once on the server it does not give anyone power to kick anyone else. If while on the server, you discover people you never wish to play with again: you block them, then you are free to leave the server right then or endure them until you leave and find another server that does not contain people you have blocked. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 2 then only members of the clan that owns the server may prevent people from playing on that server. Yes this is currently limited to checking the block lists of clan members who are on that server, we will look at improving that in the future. Clearly it is best to use this feature with a non-public group, using it with a public group would be silly. This can be improved by ignoring a blocking relationship between two members of the group. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 4 then that stops a new player from joining a server if one of the people already on that server is blocked by the new player. The players already on that server will be totally unaffected. This is to prevent a new player from ever being matchmade onto a server with people they have blocked - in case of a race condition in the matchmaking. Lastly, this is primarily intended to be used on servers that have minimal administration / running no admin mods. Servers that are heavily administered already may not need to use this system at all. The sv_steamblockingcheck = 1 functionality is provided so that it can be used in conjunction with existing mods for servers that want to allow the general population to coexist with the servers preferred clients. If your server has some list of preferred clients, you can make them immune from blocking and still allow the general population to block each other - and allow your preferred clients to block who they like. Please feel free to continue sending constructive feedback. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rich Kaethler Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:19 PM To: 'hlds@list.valvesoftware.com' Subject: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new sv_steamgroup convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set sv_steamblockingcheck to 2. With this setting only members of the group that owns the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and sv_steamblockingcheck is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. Here are the details of the options: sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group's ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
TF2 is free. You can just create a new account if you got blocked. 2012/3/16 Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.com: I think there is some confusion about how this works. First off, there is no “kicking power”. The check is only made on initial connection to the server. Once on the server it does not give anyone power to kick anyone else. If while on the server, you discover people you never wish to play with again: you block them, then you are free to leave the server right then or endure them until you leave and find another server that does not contain people you have blocked. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 2 then only members of the clan that “owns” the server may prevent people from playing on that server. Yes this is currently limited to checking the block lists of clan members who are on that server, we will look at improving that in the future. Clearly it is best to use this feature with a non-public group, using it with a public group would be silly. This can be improved by ignoring a blocking relationship between two members of the group. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 4 then that stops a new player from joining a server if one of the people already on that server is blocked by the new player. The players already on that server will be totally unaffected. This is to prevent a new player from ever being matchmade onto a server with people they have blocked – in case of a race condition in the matchmaking. Lastly, this is primarily intended to be used on servers that have minimal administration / running no admin mods. Servers that are heavily administered already may not need to use this system at all. The sv_steamblockingcheck = 1 functionality is provided so that it can be used in conjunction with existing mods for servers that want to allow the general population to coexist with the servers preferred clients. If your server has some list of preferred clients, you can make them immune from blocking and still allow the general population to block each other – and allow your preferred clients to block who they like. Please feel free to continue sending constructive feedback. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rich Kaethler Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:19 PM To: 'hlds@list.valvesoftware.com' Subject: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new “sv_steamgroup” convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set “sv_steamblockingcheck” to 2. With this setting only members of the group that “owns” the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and “sv_steamblockingcheck” is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. Here are the details of the options: sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group’s ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- Best regards, AnAkIn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
I think this comment really nails it - any system that attempts to block a 'player' by blocking a steamid is doomed to failure. The only way this could work, and only Valve has the info to make this happen, is to assume a (mostly) 1:1 relationship between players and their PCs, and then enable blocking of all steam accounts associated with a particular PC. IP address is not sufficient. It would need to be some sort of GUID for the steam install on the PC. Solve this problem, and many of the F2P issues disappear. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 1:47 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update TF2 is free. You can just create a new account if you got blocked. 2012/3/16 Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.com: I think there is some confusion about how this works. First off, there is no kicking power. The check is only made on initial connection to the server. Once on the server it does not give anyone power to kick anyone else. If while on the server, you discover people you never wish to play with again: you block them, then you are free to leave the server right then or endure them until you leave and find another server that does not contain people you have blocked. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 2 then only members of the clan that owns the server may prevent people from playing on that server. Yes this is currently limited to checking the block lists of clan members who are on that server, we will look at improving that in the future. Clearly it is best to use this feature with a non-public group, using it with a public group would be silly. This can be improved by ignoring a blocking relationship between two members of the group. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 4 then that stops a new player from joining a server if one of the people already on that server is blocked by the new player. The players already on that server will be totally unaffected. This is to prevent a new player from ever being matchmade onto a server with people they have blocked - in case of a race condition in the matchmaking. Lastly, this is primarily intended to be used on servers that have minimal administration / running no admin mods. Servers that are heavily administered already may not need to use this system at all. The sv_steamblockingcheck = 1 functionality is provided so that it can be used in conjunction with existing mods for servers that want to allow the general population to coexist with the servers preferred clients. If your server has some list of preferred clients, you can make them immune from blocking and still allow the general population to block each other - and allow your preferred clients to block who they like. Please feel free to continue sending constructive feedback. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
Only thing this will accomplish is the same thing that current plugins already do. If this is a method to get rid of undesirables and hackers, it will not work. First of all, the only time people typically use the block feature is if someone personally messages them with spam/etc. Secondly, hackers/trolls/etc can just make a new account to get around the system. So it has the same basic limitation as a ban system, and to be honest, is basically a redundant ban system. What exactly is the purpose of this system? It seems like a waste of time in its current state. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Tom Weir tw...@geekwerks.ca wrote: I think this comment really nails it - any system that attempts to block a 'player' by blocking a steamid is doomed to failure. The only way this could work, and only Valve has the info to make this happen, is to assume a (mostly) 1:1 relationship between players and their PCs, and then enable blocking of all steam accounts associated with a particular PC. IP address is not sufficient. It would need to be some sort of GUID for the steam install on the PC. Solve this problem, and many of the F2P issues disappear. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 1:47 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update TF2 is free. You can just create a new account if you got blocked. 2012/3/16 Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.com: I think there is some confusion about how this works. First off, there is no kicking power. The check is only made on initial connection to the server. Once on the server it does not give anyone power to kick anyone else. If while on the server, you discover people you never wish to play with again: you block them, then you are free to leave the server right then or endure them until you leave and find another server that does not contain people you have blocked. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 2 then only members of the clan that owns the server may prevent people from playing on that server. Yes this is currently limited to checking the block lists of clan members who are on that server, we will look at improving that in the future. Clearly it is best to use this feature with a non-public group, using it with a public group would be silly. This can be improved by ignoring a blocking relationship between two members of the group. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 4 then that stops a new player from joining a server if one of the people already on that server is blocked by the new player. The players already on that server will be totally unaffected. This is to prevent a new player from ever being matchmade onto a server with people they have blocked - in case of a race condition in the matchmaking. Lastly, this is primarily intended to be used on servers that have minimal administration / running no admin mods. Servers that are heavily administered already may not need to use this system at all. The sv_steamblockingcheck = 1 functionality is provided so that it can be used in conjunction with existing mods for servers that want to allow the general population to coexist with the servers preferred clients. If your server has some list of preferred clients, you can make them immune from blocking and still allow the general population to block each other - and allow your preferred clients to block who they like. Please feel free to continue sending constructive feedback. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
1:1 relationship with a computer would be impossible to do, sure their are some hardware identifiers they could go off of, but I know that tf2 works in sandbox environment, how do you tie hardware relationship with pc from a virtual environment? It may help a little, but its still possible to bypass the system. From: Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update Only thing this will accomplish is the same thing that current plugins already do. If this is a method to get rid of undesirables and hackers, it will not work. First of all, the only time people typically use the block feature is if someone personally messages them with spam/etc. Secondly, hackers/trolls/etc can just make a new account to get around the system. So it has the same basic limitation as a ban system, and to be honest, is basically a redundant ban system. What exactly is the purpose of this system? It seems like a waste of time in its current state. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Tom Weir tw...@geekwerks.ca wrote: I think this comment really nails it - any system that attempts to block a 'player' by blocking a steamid is doomed to failure. The only way this could work, and only Valve has the info to make this happen, is to assume a (mostly) 1:1 relationship between players and their PCs, and then enable blocking of all steam accounts associated with a particular PC. IP address is not sufficient. It would need to be some sort of GUID for the steam install on the PC. Solve this problem, and many of the F2P issues disappear. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 1:47 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update TF2 is free. You can just create a new account if you got blocked. 2012/3/16 Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.com: I think there is some confusion about how this works. First off, there is no kicking power. The check is only made on initial connection to the server. Once on the server it does not give anyone power to kick anyone else. If while on the server, you discover people you never wish to play with again: you block them, then you are free to leave the server right then or endure them until you leave and find another server that does not contain people you have blocked. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 2 then only members of the clan that owns the server may prevent people from playing on that server. Yes this is currently limited to checking the block lists of clan members who are on that server, we will look at improving that in the future. Clearly it is best to use this feature with a non-public group, using it with a public group would be silly. This can be improved by ignoring a blocking relationship between two members of the group. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 4 then that stops a new player from joining a server if one of the people already on that server is blocked by the new player. The players already on that server will be totally unaffected. This is to prevent a new player from ever being matchmade onto a server with people they have blocked - in case of a race condition in the matchmaking. Lastly, this is primarily intended to be used on servers that have minimal administration / running no admin mods. Servers that are heavily administered already may not need to use this system at all. The sv_steamblockingcheck = 1 functionality is provided so that it can be used in conjunction with existing mods for servers that want to allow the general population to coexist with the servers preferred clients. If your server has some list of preferred clients, you can make them immune from blocking and still allow the general population to block each other - and allow your preferred clients to block who they like. Please feel free to continue sending constructive feedback. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
On Mar 16, 2012, at 16:51 PM, James Goetz wrote: 1:1 relationship with a computer would be impossible to do Not only that, all Steam games are licensed for us to use on _any_ computer, not just one. I'd be an angry customer if they started limiting me to specific hardware, or limiting me from letting others play their games on my hardware. I don't think there's an easy solution to this, and I applaud Valve's efforts to try out unconventional or different ideas, especially in the Beta. - Peter ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
look at the end of his email: Lastly, this is primarily intended to be used on servers that have minimal administration / running no admin mods. Servers that are heavily administered already may not need to use this system at all. So this is a service that caters to those who don't have regular admins or mods. I'm not sure how many people on this list fall into that category. I bet Rich ( others) have a much broader view of their customers than anybody else on this list and may just possibly be designing a feature to a constituency you're not aware of. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Only thing this will accomplish is the same thing that current plugins already do. If this is a method to get rid of undesirables and hackers, it will not work. First of all, the only time people typically use the block feature is if someone personally messages them with spam/etc. Secondly, hackers/trolls/etc can just make a new account to get around the system. So it has the same basic limitation as a ban system, and to be honest, is basically a redundant ban system. What exactly is the purpose of this system? It seems like a waste of time in its current state. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
I'm not suggesting that steam ids:machine relationship be changed from *:*, but rather valve bake some knowledge (that only they have) into identifying steam_id 'clusters'. I.e. if a machine has 20 F2P accounts associated with it, and 10 of those are identified as nuisance accounts, it could be implied that the other 10 F2P accounts are also likely tainted. But yeah, definitely an area that would require a lot of testing for corner cases. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter HLDS Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:18 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update On Mar 16, 2012, at 16:51 PM, James Goetz wrote: 1:1 relationship with a computer would be impossible to do Not only that, all Steam games are licensed for us to use on _any_ computer, not just one. I'd be an angry customer if they started limiting me to specific hardware, or limiting me from letting others play their games on my hardware. I don't think there's an easy solution to this, and I applaud Valve's efforts to try out unconventional or different ideas, especially in the Beta. - Peter ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
This is useless for TF2 servers. No sane server admin will enable the auto-kicking mechanism for his server. The problem is that we cannot ban the griefers or cheaters. It takes less than 3 minutes to create a new Steam account, to restart the network connection (to get a new IP) and to reconnect to server. We need access to some hardware fingerprint, but something more serious than the SHA1 digest for MachineGuid registry key or for MAC, because these can be changed easily. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rich Kaethler Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 10:43 PM To: 'hlds@list.valvesoftware.com' Subject: Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update I think there is some confusion about how this works. First off, there is no kicking power. The check is only made on initial connection to the server. Once on the server it does not give anyone power to kick anyone else. If while on the server, you discover people you never wish to play with again: you block them, then you are free to leave the server right then or endure them until you leave and find another server that does not contain people you have blocked. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 2 then only members of the clan that owns the server may prevent people from playing on that server. Yes this is currently limited to checking the block lists of clan members who are on that server, we will look at improving that in the future. Clearly it is best to use this feature with a non-public group, using it with a public group would be silly. This can be improved by ignoring a blocking relationship between two members of the group. If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 4 then that stops a new player from joining a server if one of the people already on that server is blocked by the new player. The players already on that server will be totally unaffected. This is to prevent a new player from ever being matchmade onto a server with people they have blocked - in case of a race condition in the matchmaking. Lastly, this is primarily intended to be used on servers that have minimal administration / running no admin mods. Servers that are heavily administered already may not need to use this system at all. The sv_steamblockingcheck = 1 functionality is provided so that it can be used in conjunction with existing mods for servers that want to allow the general population to coexist with the servers preferred clients. If your server has some list of preferred clients, you can make them immune from blocking and still allow the general population to block each other - and allow your preferred clients to block who they like. Please feel free to continue sending constructive feedback. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rich Kaethler Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:19 PM To: 'hlds@list.valvesoftware.com' Subject: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new sv_steamgroup convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set sv_steamblockingcheck to 2. With this setting only members of the group that owns the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and sv_steamblockingcheck is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. Here are the details of the options: sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group's ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
It would be really nice if we could get the opposite of this feature. I'd like to see cvars where you cannot join a server unless you belong to a specific group. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 3:46 PM, hlds h...@gmx.com wrote: This is useless for TF2 servers. No sane server admin will enable the auto-kicking mechanism for his server. ** ** The problem is that we cannot ban the griefers or cheaters. It takes less than 3 minutes to create a new Steam account, to restart the network connection (to get a new IP) and to reconnect to server. We need access to some hardware fingerprint, but something more serious than the SHA1 digest for MachineGuid registry key or for MAC, because these can be changed easily. ** ** *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Rich Kaethler *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 10:43 PM *To:* 'hlds@list.valvesoftware.com' *Subject:* Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update ** ** I think there is some confusion about how this works. ** ** First off, there is no “kicking power”. The check is only made on initial connection to the server. Once on the server it does not give anyone power to kick anyone else. If while on the server, you discover people you never wish to play with again: you block them, then you are free to leave the server right then or endure them until you leave and find another server that does not contain people you have blocked. ** ** If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 2 then only members of the clan that “owns” the server may prevent people from playing on that server. Yes this is currently limited to checking the block lists of clan members who are on that server, we will look at improving that in the future. Clearly it is best to use this feature with a non-public group, using it with a public group would be silly. This can be improved by ignoring a blocking relationship between two members of the group. ** ** If the server sets sv_steamblockingcheck = 4 then that stops a new player from joining a server if one of the people already on that server is blocked by the new player. The players already on that server will be totally unaffected. This is to prevent a new player from ever being matchmade onto a server with people they have blocked – in case of a race condition in the matchmaking. ** ** Lastly, this is primarily intended to be used on servers that have minimal administration / running no admin mods. Servers that are heavily administered already may not need to use this system at all. The sv_steamblockingcheck = 1 functionality is provided so that it can be used in conjunction with existing mods for servers that want to allow the general population to coexist with the servers preferred clients. If your server has some list of preferred clients, you can make them immune from blocking and still allow the general population to block each other – and allow your preferred clients to block who they like. ** ** Please feel free to continue sending constructive feedback. ** ** ** ** *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Rich Kaethler *Sent:* Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:19 PM *To:* 'hlds@list.valvesoftware.com' *Subject:* [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update ** ** We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new “sv_steamgroup” convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set “sv_steamblockingcheck” to 2. With this setting only members of the group that “owns” the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and “sv_steamblockingcheck” is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. ** ** Here are the details of the options: ** ** sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
I love that idea. Special weapon: the Weapon Of Mass Destruction: + Does 25% extra damage to people you have blocked + gives 10 more health. - does 10% less damage to other people. I'd buy it. From: Alex Ogier alex.og...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012, 9:07 Subject: Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update That gives me an idea: make a plugin that gives you extra damage and powers vs. players you have blocked. Then see how toxic and alienated your community can become. -Alex Ogier On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Emil Larsson ail...@gmail.com wrote: Then again, sv_steamblockingcheck 1 might be useful for plugin authors to hook in custom behavior depending on what users is blocking each other. :) On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Emil Larsson ail...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect this feature is more useful for any loosely adminstrated servers (Offical Valve servers), so in that regard it's good. For us who activly admins the servers though, it seems pointless, or at best... a poor substition for a proper ban system. And a bit dangerous to add, I seen users dislike each other over the most petty reasons in our community leading to blocks, yet not causing any trouble on the servers themselves to deserve to be blocked/banned. Although I agree that chat and voice from blocked users should be automatically muted ingame, although that's a feature that should be added clientside. ;) On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Rich Kaethler r...@valvesoftware.com wrote: We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new “sv_steamgroup” convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set “sv_steamblockingcheck” to 2. With this setting only members of the group that “owns” the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and “sv_steamblockingcheck” is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. Here are the details of the options: sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group’s ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
+1 on this. It would nice if we could block a specified steam groups from joining server or allow players from whitelist steam groups. On 16 March 2012 23:39, m33crob ad...@m33crob.com wrote: It would be really nice if we could get the opposite of this feature. I'd like to see cvars where you cannot join a server unless you belong to a specific group. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
This feature is already available via a plugin I believe, but for most server admins, having it set to 1 would be a good idea, you can then have another tool to track potential troublemakers, if we are seeing a player blocked by a good number of the regulars on the server, take a look and potentially issue a ban from there. An extra thing to have is never a bad thing, if you don't care for the tool, leave it at zero and move on. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:41 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com wrote: +1 on this. It would nice if we could block a specified steam groups from joining server or allow players from whitelist steam groups. On 16 March 2012 23:39, m33crob ad...@m33crob.com wrote: It would be really nice if we could get the opposite of this feature. I'd like to see cvars where you cannot join a server unless you belong to a specific group. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
Those servers should be excluded from quickplay if the feature is added. However this would allow a server to be run for regulars of particular group, thus leaving randomers off. Could be a usefull feature for large groups. Easier to deal with than password system. Too hard for some to dig it up. Also there was some time ago talk about adding more features from l4d2 to tf2. Like that specific banner feature that it uses and even having a system where belonging to certain group you would have the group assigned servers in your favorites automatically. What happened to that? In l4d2 it didn't work properly and will not work in tf2 unless you can assign servers to you group yourself as anyone who can dig your groups id could just use those as in itheir server configs. Belonging to valves l4d2 group brought you over 100 servers to be displayed on front menu. With changes, it could work in tf2 too. -ics - Alkuperäinen viesti - +1 on this. It would nice if we could block a specified steam groups from joining server or allow players from whitelist steam groups. On 16 March 2012 23:39, m33crob ad...@m33crob.com wrote: It would be really nice if we could get the opposite of this feature. I'd like to see cvars where you cannot join a server unless you belong to a specific group. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
But if done via plugin it would result in both an unpleasant user experience and a server score drop. There is a difference between being dropped because you are banned when you did something wrong and between clicking start playing only to get - Banned not part of our super duper steam group. Instead having the users simple be not matchmade into a server they can't join is far better. And this kind of functionality already exists in the Left 4 Dead series. So ideally a server that can't be joined would be invisible unless you go look for it manually. This is already a feature in both Left 4 Dead and CS:GO. In agreement with a point stated previously: when you can spend 3 minutes and have an account free of all blocks this system seems rather noneffective. Though I am sure that this exclusion system had a positive result in games like CS:GO and L4D2 where people have to pay for the game again in order to obtain a fresh account free of all blocks. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Charles Mabbott charles.mabb...@gmail.com wrote: This feature is already available via a plugin I believe, but for most server admins, having it set to 1 would be a good idea, you can then have another tool to track potential troublemakers, if we are seeing a player blocked by a good number of the regulars on the server, take a look and potentially issue a ban from there. An extra thing to have is never a bad thing, if you don't care for the tool, leave it at zero and move on. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:41 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com wrote: +1 on this. It would nice if we could block a specified steam groups from joining server or allow players from whitelist steam groups. On 16 March 2012 23:39, m33crob ad...@m33crob.com wrote: It would be really nice if we could get the opposite of this feature. I'd like to see cvars where you cannot join a server unless you belong to a specific group. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
I'm pretty sure valve added this against the trolls and idiots who just go around servers with their friends with one and single account. Those that are real dum to make new account and that can be contacted and thus removed if they don't change their behaviour. Just like in l4d2. They have another system against the account creators but no info has ever been shared from it. If you have an issue with someone that you suspect or even know to be a same guy making account after another and coming back being a real nuisance, i suggest you tell about that here but not under this topic. -ics - Alkuperäinen viesti - But if done via plugin it would result in both an unpleasant user experience and a server score drop. There is a difference between being dropped because you are banned when you did something wrong and between clicking start playing only to get - Banned not part of our super duper steam group. Instead having the users simple be not matchmade into a server they can't join is far better. And this kind of functionality already exists in the Left 4 Dead series. So ideally a server that can't be joined would be invisible unless you go look for it manually. This is already a feature in both Left 4 Dead and CS:GO. In agreement with a point stated previously: when you can spend 3 minutes and have an account free of all blocks this system seems rather noneffective. Though I am sure that this exclusion system had a positive result in games like CS:GO and L4D2 where people have to pay for the game again in order to obtain a fresh account free of all blocks. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Charles Mabbott charles.mabb...@gmail.com wrote: This feature is already available via a plugin I believe, but for most server admins, having it set to 1 would be a good idea, you can then have another tool to track potential troublemakers, if we are seeing a player blocked by a good number of the regulars on the server, take a look and potentially issue a ban from there. An extra thing to have is never a bad thing, if you don't care for the tool, leave it at zero and move on. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:41 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com wrote: +1 on this. It would nice if we could block a specified steam groups from joining server or allow players from whitelist steam groups. On 16 March 2012 23:39, m33crob ad...@m33crob.com wrote: It would be really nice if we could get the opposite of this feature. I'd like to see cvars where you cannot join a server unless you belong to a specific group. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] New feature in TF2 Beta dedicated server update
We have added support for Steam community blocking in the dedicated server. This functionality is in testing and is controlled by convar ( off by default ). If the convar is enabled, every new player at connect time ( once authenticated ) will be tested against the block list of every player already authenticated on the server. If any of the players on the server have blocked this player, the dedicated server is notified, and that new player may be kicked from the server depending on the convar settings. It is assumed that the most popular setting will take advantage of steam groups. To do this, use the new sv_steamgroup convar to set the group that your server belongs to, and set sv_steamblockingcheck to 2. With this setting only members of the group that owns the server may deny other players access to the server. If a group has been selected and sv_steamblockingcheck is set to 1, the console text will distinguish a new player that is blocked by a clan member vs a non-clan member. Here are the details of the options: sv_steamblockingcheck 1 = print results to console only 2 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server who is a member of the associated clan has blocked the new player 3 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player 4 = kick the new player from the server if anyone already on the server has blocked the new player or the new player has blocked any existing player on the server sv_steamgroup Set this convar to the group ID of the group that this server belongs to. You can find your group's ID on the admin profile page in the steam community. Please send feedback about blocking in dedicated servers directly to me. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
