Looking for CA-PDSMAN replacements

2011-08-03 Thread Steven Breese
We have been asked to remove CA-PDSMAN from our Mainframes. Looking around I haven't found much for replacements. We currently use the following features of PDSMAN. Ezyedit Fast Copy Member archiving LLA extensions Scan and Replace Member Titles Does anyone have any suggestions

Re: Looking for CA-PDSMAN replacements

2011-08-03 Thread Dave Salt
: breese.ste...@mayo.edu Subject: Looking for CA-PDSMAN replacements To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu We have been asked to remove CA-PDSMAN from our Mainframes. Looking around I haven't found much for replacements. We currently use the following features of PDSMAN. Ezyedit Fast Copy Member archiving

Re: Looking for CA-PDSMAN replacements

2011-08-03 Thread Don Imbriale
to remove CA-PDSMAN from our Mainframes. Looking around I haven't found much for replacements. We currently use the following features of PDSMAN. Ezyedit Fast Copy Member archiving LLA extensions Scan and Replace Member Titles Does anyone have any suggestions for replacement products

Re: The Replacements ???

2006-03-24 Thread Knutson, Sam
Hi, In a related topic Death of the Mainframe Steve Ware did a really nice presentation at SHARE in Seattle based on a simple premise A CICS support person should be able to articulate the current capabilities of CICS and the mainframe, and make compelling arguments in favor of continuing to

Re: The Replacements ???

2006-03-21 Thread Stephen M. Wiegand
:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Green Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:18 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: The Replacements ??? Interesting article. If it's already been posted, I'm sorry... http://www.treknature.com/gallery/South_America/Brazil/photo13127.htm

The Replacements ???

2006-03-20 Thread Gary Green
Interesting article. If it's already been posted, I'm sorry... http://www.treknature.com/gallery/South_America/Brazil/photo13127.htm -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL

Re: The Replacements ???

2006-03-20 Thread Gary Green
Sorry, sorry, sorry The correct URL is: http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=4123 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Green Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:18 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: The Replacements

Re: The Replacements ???

2006-03-20 Thread Hank Oerlemans
Well I did wonder whether the zseries connection was 'blue' . Hank -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at

Re: The Replacements ???

2006-03-20 Thread Chris Mason
didn't enhance the image of Poughkeepsie. - Original Message - From: Gary Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, 21 March, 2006 2:38 AM Subject: Re: The Replacements ??? Sorry, sorry, sorry The correct URL is: http

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-08-17 Thread Eileen McClintock
Does anyone have an opinion as to whether or not VOLCATs should use ECS ? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-20 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/19/2005 at 09:13 AM, Bill Fairchild [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: You did. No I didn't. Read my message more carefully. If it begins at the level of an atrocity and then gets worse, Then it's a worse atrocity. Even were you to convince me that worse than atrocious

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/18/2005 at 07:59 AM, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I may be able to top that. You;d have to do do better than a performance issue. The code in question modified an existing SMF exit to accomodate an IBM code change by swapping two Rx EQU definitions instead

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/18/2005 at 08:26 AM, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Well, why is FIVE a magic number? If you're going to go to the trouble of using a variable, name the variable so that somebody else knows what it is, conceptually. AOL. Programmers should worry more about

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/18/2005 at 09:10 AM, Bill Fairchild [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Starting one's ALC career on a S/360 is a very good guess, as the S/360 would generate a program interrupt if you tried to do a LH or STH with an address that was not halfword aligned. Close; the

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/18/2005 at 09:15 AM, Bill Fairchild [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: OK, I'll byte (pun intended). Why is LH r,=H'5' rather than LA r,5 atrocious? Extra cache hits and perhaps extra page hits. And why is LH r,FIVE with FIVE DC H'5' worse than atrocious? What does

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/18/2005 at 01:35 AM, Bill Fairchild [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I don't understand this reply. What is the risk? The obvious one; collateral damage. I assumed, but did not state, that the person doing the patching had already checked the cross-reference list to

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/18/2005 at 12:00 AM, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: DUH. Thanks for pointing that out. Whoosh! The code shown specifically used =H'5'. There is no case where that *specic* instruction could not have been written instead as an LA r,5. -- Shmuel

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Ted MacNEIL
... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Canadian BLACKBERRY said: DUH. Thanks for pointing that out. Whoosh! ... I didn't say it! I was quoting some of somebody else's text. It's almost getting to the point that including text from an OP is not worth it. Not just me; I have seen other people get quoted text

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/19/2005 7:26:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And why is LH r,FIVE with FIVE DC H'5' worse than atrocious? What does worse than atrocious mean and who[1] said that it was? You did. On 07/16/2005 Gerhard Postpischil said: And atrocities

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/19/2005 7:29:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I assumed, but did not state, that the person doing the patching had already checked the cross-reference list to see if the half word in the literal pool was used anywhere else where such a patch

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/19/2005 7:29:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The code shown specifically used =H'5'. There is no case where that *specic* instruction could not have been written instead as an LA r,5. You are correct. You are still missing my point.

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Rob Scott
2005 09:41 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? In a message dated 7/19/2005 7:29:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The code shown specifically used =H'5'. There is no case where that *specic* instruction could

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Rob Scott said: Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:53:49 -0400 Maybe this is a bit of a religious war - but I have always disliked LA Rx,integer - for maintainability (and readability) I would much prefer L Rx,=F'integer'. The maintainability issue has been made very

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/19/2005 9:22:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yet, I prefer L Rx,=A(equated-symbol) so the equated symbol may be used in other contexts, such as storage declarations. Another reason why I also prefer this technique is so the equated symbol

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Bill Fairchild said: Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:04:30 EDT techniques. I don't see an extra page fault as a big performance hit unless the code is being executed a huge number of times per second. It is a fine If the code is executed a huge number of times per

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/19/2005 at 08:21 AM, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: How do other readers feel about: SIZE EQU 2 * SIZE of an array entry ... MHRx,=Y(SIZE) versus: ARRx,Rx * Multiply by SIEZ of an array entry ... for performance,

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/19/2005 at 12:00 AM, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I didn't say it! I was quoting some of somebody else's text. The standard Internet convention[1] for indicating that is to prefix the text with a character. It's almost getting to the point that including

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/19/2005 at 09:33 AM, Bill Fairchild [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Overlooking a reference to an instruction about to be changed with a patch What is at issue is changing a datum that is not an instruction. Such data typically have more references than instructions do,

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/19/2005 at 09:41 AM, Bill Fairchild [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: You are correct. You are still missing my point. Suppose the original instruction was LA Rx,4095 and for whatever reason the logic needs to be changed into LA Rx,4096. I find it hard to imagine

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Craddock, Chris
What is at issue is changing a datum that is not an instruction. Such data typically have more references than instructions do, and the references are more likely to be unrelated to each other. Similarly overlooking a reference to a source code instruction about to be reassembled may also

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
Bill Fairchild wrote: instruction was LHRx,=H'4095' then the half word literal can be patched from 4095 to 4096. In the former case no simple patch is possible. In the latter case a simple patch is possible. It is also possible that, for whatever reason, the logic of a LA Rx,5

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-19 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
Rob Scott wrote: Maybe this is a bit of a religious war - but I have always disliked LA Rx,integer - for maintainability (and readability) I would much prefer L Rx,=F'integer'. Depends on what you wish to do. These days I much prefer using A constants to let the assembler generate appropriate

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread Edward E. Jaffe
Bill Fairchild wrote: My point was not how close 5 is to 4095, but rather the difficulty in patching an instruction when the patch only allows 12 bits to be changed (in an LA instruction) vs. when the patch allows 16 bits to be changed (when changing a half word literal). A zap is a

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/18/2005 7:31:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A zap is a zap. I see no difference in degree of difficulty patching one bit, 12 bits, or 16. The real problem with patching a literal is that it might be referenced by more than one instruction.

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread Edward E. Jaffe
Bill Fairchild wrote: Right. There is no difference in difficulty. My point was that if the needed zap involves changing a constant of 4095 to 4096, then you can't do it by zapping a 12-bit displacement in a LA instruction but you can do it if affected instruction is using a halfword,

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/18/2005 7:57:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Except for the problem I mentioned earlier that a literal can be referenced by more than one instruction. I prefer to always use immediate instructions when possible. A named halfword can also be

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread Bill Fairchild
The first sentence below is from Gerhard Postpischil. And atrocities like LH r,=H'5' rather than LA r,5 are still timely. It gets worse[1]; I've seen stuff like LH r,FIVE with FIVE DC H'5'. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT OK, I'll byte (pun intended).

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread Ted MacNEIL
... 5 is always less than 4095. DUH. Thanks for pointing that out. And 4094 is also always less than 4095. ... 2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of '2') (8-{]} -teD In God we Trust! All others bring data! -- W. Edwards Deming

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread Ted MacNEIL
... (They run a lot faster!) ... If you can show me (outside of contrived benchmarks) that this will make a difference in your next upgrade then I shall believe that it's relevant. -teD In God we Trust! All others bring data! -- W. Edwards Deming

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Fairchild Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 8:15 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? snip OK, I'll byte (pun intended

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-18 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, McKown, John said: Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:26:49 -0500 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bill Fairchild And why is LH r,FIVE with FIVE DC H'5' worse than atrocious? Well, why is FIVE

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-17 Thread Joe Zitzelberger
approach. Even though IBM's initial performance problems have long been corrected, you will still find people that insist on custom coding replacements as needed to 'improve performance'. These two common expectations have been non-issues for many years now. My on personal best surprise moment

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-17 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/17/2005 9:25:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your comments about LH r,=H'5' being an atrocity is certainly on the mark. There is at least one case where LH Rx,=H'5' is preferable to LA Rx,5. The LA instruction can load a maximum

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-17 Thread Bob Rutledge
These days, LHI serves the purpose much more easily. Bob Bill Fairchild wrote: In a message dated 7/17/2005 9:25:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your comments about LH r,=H'5' being an atrocity is certainly on the mark. There is at least one case where

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-17 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/16/2005 at 01:27 AM, Gerhard Postpischil [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Depends on what we're talking about. LA r,0 vs. SLR r,r probably is irrelevant these days. LA r,0(s) vs. LA r,0(,s) isn't. Some processors have a 3-way adder in the I-unit and the performance is the

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-17 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/16/2005 at 12:43 PM, Rolf Ernst [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: That's because TSO spawns a subtask for every command. No. It's because the TMP waits for the subtask to complete. Also, note that I was suggesting multiple address spaces to avoid running out of virtual

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-17 Thread Edward E. Jaffe
Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: Note for new code loading large values: LHI is available on any zSeries processor. LHI also works well for loading negative values -- even trivially small ones (something LA can't do). LHI is available on many non-zSeries processors and is guaranteed on

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-17 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/17/2005 7:03:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 5 is always less than 4095. DUH. Thanks for pointing that out. And 4094 is also always less than 4095. The poster used 5 as an example. He could also have used 4094 or 4095 as an example, in

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-16 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Gerhard Postpischil said: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:27:46 -0400 I consulted at a government agency where I found code that's very clear and easy to understand: TM flag,1 BZ label NI flag,255-1 label . Well, the

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-16 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Rolf Ernst said: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:43:41 -0500 That's because TSO spawns a subtask for every command. There is probably little you can do about it besides VLF. Gee, hasn't IBM heard that attached tasks can run concurrently? Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-15 Thread Chase, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Martin Kline How about coding EXEC PGM=NULL (or whatever name you want) instead of IEFBR14? One could even go as far as making it a parmlib option as to what program name is the null program. Maybe even add a

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-15 Thread Joe Zitzelberger
On Jul 14, 2005, at 10:33 PM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: Bill Fairchild wrote: Best reason of all. Time saved is in the order of nanoseconds; time spent on discussing, thinking about, different keystrokes, etc., far outweighs the benefit UNLESS the code is executed thousands of times

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-15 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Chase, John said: Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 06:43:12 -0500 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Martin Kline How about coding EXEC PGM=NULL (or whatever name you want) instead of IEFBR14? One could even go as far as

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-15 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
Joe Zitzelberger wrote: What was hyper-efficient last year might not be today. Many of the 'efficiency' tricks that programmers have used for decades are now actually hinderances. Depends on what we're talking about. LA r,0 vs. SLR r,r probably is irrelevant these days. LA r,0(s) vs. LA

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-14 Thread Chris Langford
Bill Fairchild wrote: In a message dated 7/13/2005 8:35:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouldn't XR R15,R15 have been more efficient? No. Yes. On what processor? Even in the S/360 days the answer would depend on the box. Likewise SR versus SLR vs LA. Right

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-14 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/14/2005 1:25:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill Fairchild wrote: However, even though it is not of much value, it is certainly of interest. If you really want to know how to speed instructions up, you must be prepared to read lots of

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-14 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/14/2005 5:33:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The model 30 had a simple set of numbers with no variables. Load Address was something like 19 microseconds no matter what. Not quite, IIRC if the index register is not zero then add a

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-14 Thread Martin Kline
If it ain't broke don't fix it? That would introduce new potentiality for errors and would increase the overhead for everything other than IEFBR14. How expensive is one ATTACH and how much are you willing to pay to get rid of it? Oh boo hoo! If you're afraid of the -potential- for errors,

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-14 Thread R.S.
Martin Kline wrote: If it ain't broke don't fix it? That would introduce new potentiality for errors and would increase the overhead for everything other than IEFBR14. How expensive is one ATTACH and how much are you willing to pay to get rid of it? Oh boo hoo! If you're afraid of the

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-14 Thread Craddock, Chris
One interesting result was that one MVCL for 1K takes about as long as four MVCs of 256; below that MVCs are faster on every processor I tested. Probably not as surprising as you think. There is only one move instruction on the z Series. MVCL and other complex moves are implemented in

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-14 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Craddock, Chris said: Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:21:08 -0500 Another surprise (?) was that two STs were faster than an STM for two registers. Once again, no big surprise in terms of cache and memory design. It might even turn out that the advantage holds true

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-14 Thread Martin Kline
I'd estimate we use IEFBR14 10,000 times per day. Correction - after further analysis, we run IEFBR14 over 30,000 times per day. This seems high. Does anyone else have actual counts? CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-14 Thread Mike Bell
One of the companies I worked for had a standard that was required for their restart procedures. Output datasets were created in iefbr14 step and then referenced as disp=old in the program step. All the programs were checkpoint restartable but not with IBM checkpoint. The default CA7/11 restart

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-14 Thread Craddock, Chris
Another surprise (?) was that two STs were faster than an STM for two registers. Once again, no big surprise in terms of cache and memory design. It might even turn out that the advantage holds true for a larger number of registers. Try it. Might this also depend on whether the

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-14 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/14/2005 10:22:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Might this also depend on whether the storage operand is doubleword aligned, and whether the registers are an even/odd pair? It definitely depends on the alignment of the storage operand. This is one

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-14 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Martin Kline said: Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 08:07:40 -0500 The extra overhead for non-IEFBR14 steps is two instructions, CLC and BC. Since the cost of setting up the step, attaching the program, generating stats, etc is likely many thousands of instructions, it's a

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-14 Thread Martin Kline
How about coding EXEC PGM=NULL (or whatever name you want) instead of IEFBR14? One could even go as far as making it a parmlib option as to what program name is the null program. Maybe even add a console command to set and remove it. Additionally, if you want to make it harder (and prone to

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-14 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
Bill Fairchild wrote: Best reason of all. Time saved is in the order of nanoseconds; time spent on discussing, thinking about, different keystrokes, etc., far outweighs the benefit UNLESS the code is executed thousands of times per second in critical paths, like disabled interrupt

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-13 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/12/2005 at 10:34 AM, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I find that when I go to ISPF 3.4 and type 'D' before a few dozen data set names, my terminal is unavailable for an uncomfortably long time during processing. That ties into the issue of allowing multiple

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-13 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/11/2005 at 04:26 PM, Richard Peurifoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Many people use this to create/delete datasets. Or, at least, so they believe. At least it's a less expensive placeholder than IEHPROGM. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-13 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/11/2005 at 04:51 PM, Steve Grimes [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Wouldn't XR R15,R15 have been more efficient? No. Yes. On what processor? Even in the S/360 days the answer would depend on the box. Likewise SR versus SLR vs LA. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz,

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-13 Thread Bill Fairchild
In a message dated 7/13/2005 8:35:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouldn't XR R15,R15 have been more efficient? No. Yes. On what processor? Even in the S/360 days the answer would depend on the box. Likewise SR versus SLR vs LA. Right on, Shmuel. I learned

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-13 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
Bill Fairchild wrote: However, even though it is not of much value, it is certainly of interest. If you really want to know how to speed instructions up, you must be prepared to read lots of highly arcane technical papers on instruction processing units, pipelines, instruction caches,

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Martin Kline
IEFBR14 already does as near to nothing as possible (SR R15,R15 BR R14 Why hasn't IBM come out with a JCL option that says, There is no program, just set return code zero? It could avoid all the setup for calling IEFBR14 - LOAD, DELETE, RB setup, save area, recovery, etc. CONFIDENTIALITY

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Martin Kline
Why hasn't IBM come out with a JCL option that says, There is no program, just set return code zero? It could avoid all the setup for calling IEFBR14 - LOAD, DELETE, RB setup, save area, recovery, etc. Is this comment just noise or do you seriously expect IBM to change/eliminate IEBGENER?

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Bob Shannon
Please reread my suggestion. It says nothing about IEBGENER. I also wouldn't expect anyone to eliminate IEFBR14. Just have the initiator recognize that the program is effectively a null operation if so specified. Of course, still perform any JCL functions like dataset allocation and deletion. I

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Ted MacNEIL
Why hasn't IBM come out with a JCL option that says, There is no program, just set return code zero? It could avoid all the setup for calling IEFBR14 - LOAD, DELETE, RB setup, save area, recovery, etc. ... Eh? IEFBR14 is simpler to maintain than a special case in JCL processing (especially

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Ted MacNEIL
... Just have the initiator recognize that the program is effectively a null operation if so specified. ... Why code the special case? What we have works; why complicate it with special code paths? -teD In God we Trust! All others bring data! --Deming

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Martin Kline
Is this just noise or do you seriously expect IBM to implement this? It's a serious suggestion, but I do not expect IBM to give it serious consideration. There's no money to make. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended solely

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Martin Kline
Why code the special case? What we have works; why complicate it with special code paths? Why do anything? DOS 1.0 worked, too. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended solely for its authorized recipient(s), and may contain

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Martin Kline
I've tried teaching them better (use IDCAMS), but this is the way that I've done it since 1975 and I'm not changing! What we have works; why complicate it? CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended solely for its authorized

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Howard Brazee
On 11-Jul-2005, Abbacabba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IEFBR14 is one of our most USED program with ~1500 uses a day. You won't gain anything by trying to make a more efficient IEFBR14. But that isn't your goal. We don't have any business needs to have IEFBR14 run. What we have are needs to

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Ron and Jenny Hawkins
programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14 On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 00:00 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote: I didn't intend to talk down, but I know many APPDEV-types who think of this as the only way to create/delete. I once had an applications guy (a new hire) ask me where the IEFBR14

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Ted MacNEIL
... Did you tell him about the IEFBR15 utility? ... IBM used to use one in the early days of bench-mark(ett)ing to get rid of the low utilisation effect. -teD In God we Trust! All others bring data! --Deming --

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Edward E. Jaffe
Rob Scott wrote: If only there was an easy way to do this ...h.. How about a program that just sets the return code to zero and returned to the usereven better than that - why don't we put it in LPA so that there is no LOAD/DELETE overhead. Or one of my favorites:

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Edward E. Jaffe
Richard Pinion wrote: Sorry I have the copy write on that program!!! OK. Just so long as you don't own the copyright. -- - | Edward E. Jaffe|| | Mgr, Research Development|

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Richard Pinion
I guess I failed spelling, copy write!! I have the copyright on that program, ABEND806. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/12/05 12:03 PM Sorry I have the copy write on that program!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/12/05 12:02 PM Rob Scott wrote: If only there was an easy way to do this ...h.. How

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Martin Kline said: Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:43:18 -0500 It's a serious suggestion, but I do not expect IBM to give it serious consideration. There's no money to make. IBM will respond to serious customer requirements. But you need to make a business case. You

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Mark Zelden
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:02:01 -0700, Edward E. Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or one of my favorites: //***/ //* Generate S806 Abend */ //***/ //ABEND806 EXEC PGM=ABEND806 This job step works as advertised without a load module of *any* kind!

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Ted MacNEIL
-Original Message- From: Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:34:34 To:IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14 In a recent note, Martin Kline said: Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:43:18

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Edward E. Jaffe
Paul Gilmartin wrote: I find that when I go to ISPF 3.4 and type 'D' before a few dozen data set names, my terminal is unavailable for an uncomfortably long time during processing. I used to experience similar delays when deleting large numbers of data sets. Then came Enhanced Catalog

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Ted MacNEIL
Sorry about that. Some times the (fat) finger is quicker than the eye. -Original Message- From: Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:00:00 To:IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Mark Zelden
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:48:12 -0700, Edward E. Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Issue the 'f catalog,ecshr(status)' system command to find out if you're using this important catalog performance enhancement. After first asking yourself am I running a parallel sysplex? and am I not sharing catalogs

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward E. Jaffe Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14 snip Or one

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Howard Brazee
On 12-Jul-2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Edward E. Jaffe) wrote: Or one of my favorites: //***/ //* Generate S806 Abend */ //***/ //ABEND806 EXEC PGM=ABEND806 This job step works as advertised without a load module of *any* kind! Especially

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread R.S.
Edward E. Jaffe wrote: Mark Zelden wrote: On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:02:01 -0700, Edward E. Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or one of my favorites: //***/ //* Generate S806 Abend */ //***/ //ABEND806 EXEC PGM=ABEND806 This job step works as

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-12 Thread Paul Gilmartin
: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14 On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:57:33 -0700, Edward E. Jaffe [log in to unmask] wrote: Issue the 'f catalog,ecshr(status)' system command to find out if you're using this important catalog performance enhancement. After first

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there?

2005-07-12 Thread Mark Zelden
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 11:51:50 -0600, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would sure be nice if 3.4 scanned prefix commands for 'D' and generated a batch IDCAMS job (one; not one per prefix), at least optionally. I suppose I could write an EXEC. I'm almost too old to indulge in such

Re: Highly used programs: any better replacements out there? IDCAMS, IEFBR14

2005-07-12 Thread Edward E. Jaffe
Mark Zelden wrote: On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:57:33 -0700, Edward E. Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Issue the 'f catalog,ecshr(status)' system command to find out if you're using this important catalog performance enhancement. After first asking yourself am I running a parallel

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