On 22/10/2021 9:54 pm, Colin Paice wrote:
yes - but better. It keeps improving the hot spot code to make it more
efficient.
If IBM were to ship the "saved" classes, it would make every one's system
run faster from day 1, rather than have a slow first few days.
I don't think this is true. The
On 23/10/2021 6:23 pm, David Crayford wrote:
When I ran the drag race on our full capacity enterprise class machine
Java was always faster than C++ and the GCPs run at the same speed as
the zIIPs. And Python also beat C++ and I couldn't get my head around
the veracity of that result.
On 23/10/2021 6:52 am, Andrew Rowley wrote:
On 22/10/2021 8:21 pm, David Crayford wrote:
I wouldn't consider a drag race using a prime number sieve a good
indication of the overall performance of Java on z/OS. That's a very
specific use case and not one that anybody would ever use on the
You’re quite foolish in thinking just because a corporation is using AWS (or
Azure/Google clouds) they are doing it to replace or supplement the mainframe.
Own me some more fool.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, October 22, 2021, 10:12 PM, David Crayford
wrote:
How about
JPM isn’t replacing their mainframe either. No banks that want security,
uptime, and transaction processing AWS can’t match are. Wait til IBM’s 2nm chip
becomes the norm.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, October 22, 2021, 10:12 PM, David Crayford
wrote:
How about JPMorgan Chase
LOL, organizations have been running multiple systems for decades. Before you
were born.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, October 22, 2021, 10:12 PM, David Crayford
wrote:
How about JPMorgan Chase who also use AWS in their enterprise
How about JPMorgan Chase who also use AWS in their enterprise
https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/jpmorgan-chase/. It's the
tip of the iceberg.
You have obviously been out of the industry for a while. The typical
enterprise IT system these days is heterogeneous. It's all about
HSBC is one poorly run bank. Since 2000 to today the stock has been cut in
half. 60 to 30. So, I wouldn’t be touting their decision making. Also, the AWS
signing was so they could layoff thousands of employees. A move that wreaks of
desperation.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday,
HSBC isn’t replacing their mainframe. Because they’re not stupid. Although
google HSBC hack and see quite a few problems. And AWS is down quite
frequently. As is Azure and Google cloud. And security on those cloud services
isn’t even close to the mainframe security.
Your Fintech fetish is also
On 23/10/2021 9:04 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major bank
does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the process.
Well, obviously HSBC do and they're the 6th biggest bank in the world.
AWS offers 99.999%
There’s a website called downdetector.com which logs the enormous number of
outages on AWS. I don’t think any banks have a similar website for their
mainframe outages. Own me some more.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford
wrote:
Haha, you
No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major bank
does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the process.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford
wrote:
Haha, you don't give up. How about this.
HSBC isn’t Australian. And they run a mainframe.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford
wrote:
Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
You've
Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
You've been pwned man, take a breather.
"For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict
when your architecture may need to scale
On 22/10/2021 8:21 pm, David Crayford wrote:
I wouldn't consider a drag race using a prime number sieve a good
indication of the overall performance of Java on z/OS. That's a very
specific use case and not one that anybody would ever use on the
mainframe.
That's true, and that's the reason
Rather than load jar files from disk - it may copy from the data space.
When you "save" an image it may write it to the dataspace. When you
preload from the saved file on disk, it may just load into the dataspace.
On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 16:45, Tony Harminc wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at
On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 05:22, Colin Paice wrote:
>
> With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled classes in a
> data space.
How does it execute code from a dataspace?
Tony H.
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe /
Go? Lua? Ruby? Rust?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
David Crayford
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
Wow! That one goes in my bookmarks!
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* Beware of any Christian leader who does not walk with a limp. -Bob Mumford
*/
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
allan winston
Sent: Thursday, October
of
Colin Paice [colinpai...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 6:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
"... With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled
classes in a data space. "
Hmm ... Sounds (functionally) like LLA/VLF.
yes -
Why the future belongs to banks, and not Fintechs
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Why the future belongs to banks, and not Fintechs
With emerging Fintech services taking the world of finance by storm, it might
seem like banks are in...
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Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little over 1
trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at slightly over a
trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 billion in assets. Which
doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th bank in the
W dniu 22.10.2021 o 12:35, David Crayford pisze:
On 22/10/2021 5:59 pm, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
W dniu 22.10.2021 o 03:12, David Crayford pisze:
On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the
back end. Banking, health records,
Ed, Johnathan;
You guys are *so *lucky.
A few quick notes to get you started:
- Unlike Unix piping, terminal output from the last stage is not
implied. (You'll find this makes sense later.)
pipe < some.dsn | count words lines | term
- The <, >, and >> are filters on their own, also
"... With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled
classes in a data space. "
Hmm ... Sounds (functionally) like LLA/VLF.
yes - but better. It keeps improving the hot spot code to make it more
efficient.
If IBM were to ship the "saved" classes, it would make every one's system
On 22/10/2021 5:59 pm, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
W dniu 22.10.2021 o 03:12, David Crayford pisze:
On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the
back end. Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance
claims, investing. And
"... With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled
classes in a data space. "
Hmm ... Sounds (functionally) like LLA/VLF.
On 2021-10-22 05:21, Colin Paice wrote:
With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled classes in a
data space. You can now "save" the latest
W dniu 22.10.2021 o 03:12, David Crayford pisze:
On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back
end. Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims,
investing. And with very high confidence the transactions are
With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled classes in a
data space. You can now "save" the latest image to disk, and reload that
next time you run. If you save it every day, you will be able to restore
the latest and greatest optimised version.
Without the shared classes, the
On 22/10/2021 3:51 pm, Andrew Rowley wrote:
On 22/10/2021 2:46 am, A T & T Management wrote:
Java, it has to be translated each time it run, provided you know
the language and it's been debugged. Schools may teach it but they
too want to make money and look good because they can say it's
On 22/10/2021 2:46 am, A T & T Management wrote:
Java, it has to be translated each time it run, provided you know the
language and it's been debugged. Schools may teach it but they too want to
make money and look good because they can say it's modern and that is what they
push. Any CEO
On 22/10/2021 11:13 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
Reasonable? People who weren’t aware of 5-9’s, who thought pharmacies weren’t
open 24 hours a day. Silly you.
Being obnoxious and abusive isn't going to help your cause Bill! 99.999%
of the folks the frequent this forum are mainframe advocates.
On 22/10/2021 12:37 am, kekronbekron wrote:
Your customers with newer software don't need to be 'punished with' binaries
made for/from older Java, when newer Java versions might offer some sort of
instruction-level enhancements.
It's really the other way round... compiled languages like C++
Reasonable? People who weren’t aware of 5-9’s, who thought pharmacies weren’t
open 24 hours a day. Silly you.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 11:07 PM, Tom Brennan
wrote:
And here I thought you could have a reasonable conversation about an
important topic.
And here I thought you could have a reasonable conversation about an
important topic. Silly me.
On 10/21/2021 7:59 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
I don’t really care Tom. Any more than I cared in 1995 when people like you
told me the mainframe was going to be gone in 5 years and I better look for
I don’t really care Tom. Any more than I cared in 1995 when people like you
told me the mainframe was going to be gone in 5 years and I better look for my
next profession. I’m not looking for agreement like most of you.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM,
You guys are the 2021 version of the guy who said the mainframe would be dead
by 2000.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan
wrote:
Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.
On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>
Lol, you think IBM post false numbers? You’re an idiot.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:35 PM, David Crayford
wrote:
On 22/10/2021 9:47 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I highly doubt your claim regarding banks.
>
Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.
On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance,
retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important
and most used platform. And it’s
On 22/10/2021 9:47 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
I highly doubt your claim regarding banks.
https://www.precisely.com/blog/mainframe/9-mainframe-statistics
Oh, a mainframe blog that quotes IBM numbers! Thanks Bill.
Don't take my word for it. There's a video and presentation that
describes the
I remember when “experts” were touting SAP, Powerbuilder, and others while
other/same “experts” were saying the mainframe was going to be obsolete by
2000. 2 decades later, it’s still going strong with no end in sight. Those
software du jour aren’t likely to replace it.
Sent from Yahoo Mail
Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance,
retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important
and most used platform. And it’s not even close.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford
I highly doubt your claim regarding banks.
https://www.precisely.com/blog/mainframe/9-mainframe-statistics
9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
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9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
How important is the
On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking,
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how
more
I think "Mainframe Modernization" is an umbrella term that can be used
to describe many different things. That may be new UIs or application
modernization such as adding a REST API to a legacy application. IBM are
doing a great job adding modern languages to z/OS that have features
Ed,
I stand corrected. Thanks for the link to https://ibmdocs.pocnet.net/,
which I was previously unaware of.
About a week ago, I was looking for BatchPipes manuals and had only
found the main reference manual. Now
I have added the other manuals to my collection.
Allan
On Thu,
I would've said Shmegoogle (a takeoff on Shmegheggi)
On 2021-10-21 12:34, Ed Jaffe wrote:
On 10/21/2021 9:16 AM, allan winston wrote:
When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
BatchPipes is a completely different program product.
Google Schmoogle...
The message
On 10/21/2021 9:16 AM, allan winston wrote:
When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
BatchPipes is a completely different program product.
Google Schmoogle...
The message id shown in my example (BPW00256I) is documented in Appendix
C of IBM BatchPipes OS/390
When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
BatchPipes is a completely different program product.
On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 11:59 AM Ed Jaffe
wrote:
> On 10/21/2021 8:18 AM, Nash, Jonathan S. wrote:
> > ... I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked
>
> READY
> pipe
>
On 10/21/2021 8:18 AM, Nash, Jonathan S. wrote:
... I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked
READY
pipe
BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
READY
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
Of
Nash, Jonathan S.
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization
** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
Some goverment agencies are replacing
their mainframe COBOL with java.
I dont see a payoff. I think this
I for one believe in the Right tool for the Right Job! For general purpose
programming, Cobol does the job. Java, it has to be translated each time it
run, provided you know the language and it's been debugged. Schools may teach
it but they too want to make money and look good because
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization
What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be
pushing back on with our marketing?
I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing
copy, but you have piqued my interest.
Eric Rossman, CIS
What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be
pushing back on with our marketing?
I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing
copy, but you have piqued my interest.
Eric Rossman, CISSP®
ICSF Cryptographic Security Development
z/OS Enabling
top the lies-
> smoke and mirrors
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
> Behalf Of Ron Wells
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:03 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
>
> ** EXTERNAL E
: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ron
Wells
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
Agree-
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Okay, thanks for clarifying.
Always good to be learning.
But yeah, it's scenarios like that (release-based builds) where automation and
GitHub-ing things help.
When an actively maintained clone of PARMLIB, etc. are kept in GitHub, code
reviews are a dream.
Ex: What changed since the last IPL,
On 10/21/2021 6:37 AM, kekronbekron wrote:
It's this kind of scenario that this woke-nizing the mainframe is supposed to
actually help with.
That is, release-based automated builds, and to automatically, easily maintain
different binaries/versions.
Your customers with newer software don't
All that seems to matter today is This Quarter to most managers. OTOH,
there are the ones who are sold on platform "X" (usually Windows) for all
I.T. functions because a single platform is more efficient to manage. My
employer is convinced that one single software product, Facets, can be the
I should not have picked on Java, but you may understand my irritation.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ed
Jaffe
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE
It's this kind of scenario that this woke-nizing the mainframe is supposed to
actually help with.
That is, release-based automated builds, and to automatically, easily maintain
different binaries/versions.
Your customers with newer software don't need to be 'punished with' binaries
made
On 10/21/2021 5:39 AM, Ron Wells wrote:
Like reinventing a wheel and all they do is add complexity , as example
Java..another moving target, write something for it, change rel. BANG does not
work. Like Windows, if IBM did this, they would have been out of the Boz
decades ago.
We love Java
IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the lies- smoke and
mirrors
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ron
Wells
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
** EXTERNAL
Agree-
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet
Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. Management
sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My last boss only
cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and say “see, I saved
you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the
Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe
List On Behalf Of W
Mainframe
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 6:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
I am involved in a project to bring some z/OS products to Zowe. IMHO it sounds
like "put lipstick on pig" (a te
I am involved in a project to bring some z/OS products to Zowe. IMHO it sounds
like "put lipstick on pig" (a term from my country). I hate this idea.
Many tiers to access a simple TSO resource or program... Angular... Java...
JSON... Python... Webserver... and my mainframe application is a good
That’s a very good point, Tony.
Rich Smrcina
> On Oct 20, 2021, at 8:52 PM, Tony Thigpen wrote:
>
> It's a magic salesman word.
>
> A few years ago, it meant moving the mainframe workload to PC using a PC
> based Cobol. Later it meant moving to the cloud.
>
> Anytime you hear the word, it
That's exactly what I wanted to express.
To complement/expand: this is salesman word, we know that. However some
salesmen want to sell their products, not kill mainframe. Do you need
theses product? Probably no. So, what is the reason to buy it? Mainframe
modernization.
From the other hand -
It's a magic salesman word.
A few years ago, it meant moving the mainframe workload to PC using a PC
based Cobol. Later it meant moving to the cloud.
Anytime you hear the word, it means "I have some snake oil to sell you
where I can get rich even if the project fails."
Be aware that while
David,
I have been in mainframes since 1970 and started my own company in 1998 dealing
with mainframe modernization. A lot has to do with languages, databases and
interfaces to non-mainframe environments along with the zCloud capabilities
currently available. While I am a 1,000% proponent of
I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end.
Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with
very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not
sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J
AKA z/OS wake?
At 05:50 PM 10/20/2021, David Elliot wrote:
Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
silence. As
That can certainly be part of it.
But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s
role as the system of record,
I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
Mark Jacobs
Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
GPG Public Key -
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