How to keep the act upon mode unchanged for 1 minute in MSGFLDxx

[Jason Cai]

Hi all 

The following is our definition of MSGFLD00:

REGULAR MSGTHRESH=150, JOBTHRESH=50, INTVLTIME=1
REGULAR SYSIMTIME=2, JOBIMTIME=2
DEFAULT LOG, AUTO, NODISPLAY, NOCMD
DEFAULTCMD '&,CANCEL & -- CANCELLED BY MESSAGE FLOOD AUTOMATION'
JOB XCFAS DISPLAY
JOB SA390 DISPLAY
ACTION MSGTHRESH=50, JOBTHRESH=20, INTVLTIME=1
ACTION SYSIMTIME=2, JOBIMTIME=2
DEFAULT LOG, NOAUTO, NODISPLAY, NOCMD, NORETAIN
DEFAULTCMD '&,CANCEL & -- CANCELLED BY MESSAGE FLOOD AUTOMATION'
JOB XCFAS DISPLAY
JOB SA390 DISPLAY
SPECIFIC MSGTHRESH=50, INTVLTIME=1
SPECIFIC SYSIMTIME=2
SPECIFIC MSGIMTIME=2
SPECIFIC MSGLIMIT=20
DEFAULT LOG, NOAUTO, NODISPLAY, NORETAIN
MSG IOS001E
MSG IOS003A
MSG IOS050I
MSG IOS051I
MSG DFHDU0201
...

After reading the IBM manual, we learned that there are three modes for 
MSGFLDXX:

1. Normal Mode
2. Intensive Mode
3. Act Upon Mode

A. To Intensive Mode:

If the number of messages counted is greater than or equal to MSGTHRESH and the 
time to count is less than INTV, then go to intensive mode.

Intensive Mode - extra processing

B. To Act Upon Mode:

If there are JOBTHRESH/MSGLIMIT number of messages within INTVLTIME for any 
address space, then that address space or message is subject to the specified 
action (act upon mode).

C. End Act Upon Mode:

At the end of each MSGTHRES, if the time since the last message is greater than 
JOBIMTIME or MSGIMTIME, then end the act upon mode.

D. End Intensive Mode:

At the end of each MSGTHRESH, if the time since the last message is greater 
than SYSIMTIME, then end the intensive mode.

We wants to stay in the act upon mode for 1 minute without ending the act upon 
mode for specific messages. They made the following modification to their 
MSGFLDxx:

from
SPECIFIC MSGTHRESH=50, INTVLTIME=1
SPECIFIC SYSIMTIME=2
SPECIFIC MSGIMTIME=2
SPECIFIC MSGLIMIT=20

to
SPECIFIC MSGTHRESH=50, INTVLTIME=1
SPECIFIC SYSIMTIME=60
SPECIFIC MSGIMTIME=60
SPECIFIC MSGLIMIT=20

We performed testing for a special message, and throughout the testing process, 
this message consistently had 60 messages per second.

After transitioning to the intensive mode and then to the act upon mode,we 
noticed that it returned to the normal mode after a few seconds, but 
immediately entered the intensive mode and act upon mode again. They couldn't 
maintain the act upon mode for a full minute.

Please let us know if this behavior is normal, and if there is any way to keep 
the act upon mode unchanged for 1 minute.

Any suggestions is highly appreciated!

Thank you!


Jason Cai 

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Re: Switching between SMT-1 and SMT-2

[Andrew Rowley]

On 5/09/2023 9:19 pm, Scott Chapman wrote:

It's more complicated than that. Although I would agree that if an LPAR has 
only a single zIIP, likely SMT would be a good idea. But B is not true for 
intervals that people usually consider when looking at utilization levels 
because at the level of dispatch intervals, it's much more likely there's at 
least some intervals where the zIIPs are 100% busy. It really depends on 
arrival patterns and how much you care about very short transactions that may 
be running on the zIIPs.


I had a look at some RMF data, and I think that zIIP velocity (from zIIP 
using and zIIP delay in the SMF 72 records) might be a good indicator. 
It hopefully gives an indication of the real delay much better than the 
overall utilization.


I saw that the velocities on my system were quite low i.e. lots of delay 
even with very low utilization. I suspect (guess) that this is due to 
short running Java jobs where the JVM is running multitple threads 
during JVM initialization. This would probably benefit from SMT2. On the 
other hand if your zIIP work is single threads arriving randomly you may 
not see delay until higher utilization. Does DDF run multiple threads 
for a single unit of work?


I wrote a SMF real time interface sample to read type 72 records and 
issue a message or even a command to change the SMT setting based on 
theSMF 72 zIIP velocity across all service classes. You can see the 
program here:


https://github.com/BlackHillSoftware/easysmf-samples/tree/main/easysmf-rti/rti-smt-switch

My theory is if the zIIP velocity is low, the work would benefit from 
SMT2 because there are lots of threads waiting. If the velocity is high, 
SMT might be hurting due to multiple threads on a processor when there 
is no work waiting. Obviously what is considered "high" and "low" will 
depend on your environment. Martin's question about a WLM reset also 
applies.


--
Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: Bill Johnson

[August Carideo]

Joined *

Get Outlook for iOS

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
August Carideo 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 6:27:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Bill Johnson

Hopefully the list being shutdown is a worst case scenario
I was under the impression that when joining you agree to it’s terms and 
conditions
Augie

Get Outlook for 
iOS

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Tomasz Rola 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 6:22:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Bill Johnson

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 07:24:23PM +, Darren Evans-Young wrote:
> I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
>
> He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of
> discrimination and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This
> complaint was sent to the President and the Chief Administrative
> Officer at The University of Alabama.

I think I can understand why he was enraging some users. Myself, I
just learned to skip over.

> Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a
> university that hosts listserv lists, and would be able to host
> IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to take the list down, please contact
> me off-list (dar...@ua.edu).

In case of worst case, what is going to happen to the archives of this
list and few (?) other related ones? Will there be "quick unplug" or
some warning? What about rights of users affected by unplugging, who
are not going/willing to use discord?

--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
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Re: Bill Johnson

[August Carideo]

Hopefully the list being shutdown is a worst case scenario
I was under the impression that when joining you agree to it’s terms and 
conditions
Augie

Get Outlook for iOS

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Tomasz Rola 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 6:22:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Bill Johnson

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 07:24:23PM +, Darren Evans-Young wrote:
> I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
>
> He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of
> discrimination and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This
> complaint was sent to the President and the Chief Administrative
> Officer at The University of Alabama.

I think I can understand why he was enraging some users. Myself, I
just learned to skip over.

> Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a
> university that hosts listserv lists, and would be able to host
> IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to take the list down, please contact
> me off-list (dar...@ua.edu).

In case of worst case, what is going to happen to the archives of this
list and few (?) other related ones? Will there be "quick unplug" or
some warning? What about rights of users affected by unplugging, who
are not going/willing to use discord?

--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Tomasz Rola]

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 07:24:23PM +, Darren Evans-Young wrote:
> I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
> 
> He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of
> discrimination and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This
> complaint was sent to the President and the Chief Administrative
> Officer at The University of Alabama.

I think I can understand why he was enraging some users. Myself, I
just learned to skip over.

> Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a
> university that hosts listserv lists, and would be able to host
> IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to take the list down, please contact
> me off-list (dar...@ua.edu).

In case of worst case, what is going to happen to the archives of this
list and few (?) other related ones? Will there be "quick unplug" or
some warning? What about rights of users affected by unplugging, who
are not going/willing to use discord?

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Tom Brennan]

Thanks for the removal.  Sorry if it causes trouble.  A normal person 
would just go make a new email id, but not Bill.  His whole purpose here 
was to disrupt.


On 9/18/2023 12:24 PM, Darren Evans-Young wrote:

I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.

He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
discrimination
and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
President and
the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.

Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
hosts
listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to take
the list down, please contact me off-list (dar...@ua.edu).

Darren

P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Bill Giannelli]

thank you Darren,
I rely on the technical help from this list not for arguments!
Bill
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:24:23 +, Darren Evans-Young  wrote:

>I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
>
>He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
>discrimination
>and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
>President and
>the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.
>
>Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
>hosts
>listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to 
>take
>the list down, please contact me off-list 
>(dar...@ua.edu).
>
>Darren
>
>P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.
>
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Re: Bill Johnson

[Doug Fuerst]

Actually it can construed as such. We are advocating a return to it's 
use as a technical forum, which I would welcome.


Doug Fuerst
Principal Consultant
BK Associates
718.921.2620 (O)
917.572.7364 (C)
d...@bkassociates.net


-- Original Message --

From "Gibney, Dave" <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>

To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 9/18/2023 16:10:41 PM
Subject Re: Bill Johnson


FWIW, discussions of Bill and thanking Darren are technically not about IBM 
Mainframes


 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
 Behalf Of Tom Marchant
 Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 1:08 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Bill Johnson

 [EXTERNAL EMAIL]

 Thank you Darren.

 Bill was primarily disruptive and contributed very little to the list.
 It would be a shame if his disruptive tactics resulted in the list being shut
 down.

 --
 Tom Marchant

 On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:24:23 +, Darren Evans-Young
  wrote:

 >I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
 >
 >He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of
 discrimination
 >and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the
 President and
 >the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.
 >
 >Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that
 hosts
 >listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to
 take
 >the list down, please contact me off-list
 (dar...@ua.edu).
 >
 >Darren
 >
 >P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Doug Fuerst]

Darren,

Anything you need in support sent to the university I would be happy to 
provide. Bill made this forum almost non-functional with the recent 
posts, and directed it far off the intended use.
My guess is I would not be the only one willing to go on record in 
support of your decision.

Feel free to contact me on or off list.

Doug

Doug Fuerst
Principal Consultant
BK Associates
718.921.2620 (O)
917.572.7364 (C)
d...@bkassociates.net


-- Original Message --

From "Darren Evans-Young" 

To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 9/18/2023 15:24:23 PM
Subject Bill Johnson


I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.

He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
discrimination
and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
President and
the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.

Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
hosts
listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to take
the list down, please contact me off-list (dar...@ua.edu).

Darren

P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Mark Regan]

There is also groups.io

​Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR General, EN80tg
CTO1 USNR-Retired (1969-1991), 
RUENAAA/CNO WASHINGTON DC//OP-009QCP
Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017
z/OS Network Systems Programmer (z NetView, z/OS Communications Server)
Email: marktre...@gmail.com
LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Dean Kent
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 16:15
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Bill Johnson

Should it come to that - two potential options for hosting the mailing list, if 
not a private university, would be IBM (though it likely wants to remain at 
arm's length) and SHARE.There is the discord chat, which a lot of regulars 
here seem to be on.Or a small non-profit that would beg for donations... 
:-P.

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Seymour J Metz]

TSO also supports second level messages that are written if the user enters a 
question mark.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Farley, Peter <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 1:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

Isn’t that pretty much what BPXMTEXT does?  Is it VM/CMS that allows you to 
enter a “command” of just a question mark “?” after an error condition to get a 
more complete explanation of an error?  Could the shell program support such a 
“command” to automatically invoke BPXMTEXT for the most recent error codes?  
Could BPXMTEXT be enhanced to retrieve the latest-occurring error codes when no 
argument is given and look those up automatically?

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 10:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)


On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:51:36 -0400, Rick Troth wrote:



>A confluence of several things.

>First, z/VM has a facility (been there for decades) that facilitates

>(sorta) what you're talking about.

>MVS people, please don't shrink back. We can easily have the same

>service on z/OS.

>

See: 

Isn't there a command line wrapper for this?



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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Tom Marchant]

It is done with the TSO ISPCCONF command from within ISPF.

Option 7 will convert the configuration table that is currently loaded to 
source that you can edit.
After making your changes, option 4 will build the table load module. 
The table load module is placed in a data set in your ISPLLIB concatenation

-- 
Tom Marchant

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 13:38:38 -0700, M. Ray Mullins  
wrote:

>I have done this, too. Since I’m on vacation, I couldn’t remember all the 
>steps to do this, so I didn’t want to mention it. 
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Sep 18, 2023, at 13:22, Tom Marchant 
>> <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> I have been unable to convince my site to increase the maximum number of 
>> split screens, so I created my own ISPCFIGU that allows 32 and placed it in 
>> ISPLLIB. I've shown a few other people how to do it. I often use more than 
>> 8, and sometimes more than 16.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tom Marchant
>> 
>>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 13:11:23 -0700, M. Ray Mullins 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just a correction: the default number of screens in ISPF is 8, but you can 
>>> configure up to 32. My site uses 16.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Alexander Huemer]

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 07:24:23PM +, Darren Evans-Young wrote:
> Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university 
> that hosts
> listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to 
> take
> the list down, please contact me off-list 
> (dar...@ua.edu).

Over the last few years I've watched quite some mailing lists to 
groups.io[1]. It does what it is supposed to as far as I am aware. I 
don't run any lists there myself.
In case the current hosting environment starts to shake, it might be 
worth a look.

-Alex

[1] https://groups.io/

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Re: EXTERNAL EMAIL: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[Jerry Whitteridge]

Thank you

Jerry Whitteridge
Sr Manager Managed Services
jerry.whitteri...@albertsons.com
480 578 7889

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Darren Evans-Young
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 2:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL EMAIL: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better list owner.
Life has been busy.

I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM Mainframe topics.
No discussions of religion, politics, etc.  No name calling, insults, etc. 
Respect
each other.

Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in being set
to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.

Darren

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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Bob Bridges]

Huh.  I remember the default limit of eight, but don't think about it much; I 
think my usual max is four or five.  At three or four I start using SCRNAME and 
closing down unused screens.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* How much better for us if all humans died in costly nursing homes amid 
doctors who lie, nurses who lie, friends who lie, as we have trained them, 
promising life to the dying, encouraging the belief that sickness excuses every 
indulgence, and even, if our workers know their job, withholding all suggestion 
of a priest lest it should betray to the sick man his true condition!  -musings 
of a tempter, from The Screwtape Letters by C S Lewis */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Tom 
Marchant
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 16:23

I have been unable to convince my site to increase the maximum number of split 
screens, so I created my own ISPCFIGU that allows 32 and placed it in ISPLLIB. 
I've shown a few other people how to do it. I often use more than 8, and 
sometimes more than 16.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Bob Bridges]

Oh, that's easy.  Just compile a list of Bill Johnson's last 20 posts, and get 
members' attestation that they're typical of what he's posted for the past ten 
years.  (Or less than ten years, if you're afeared of getting the admin in 
trouble for waiting so long.)  Bill does contribute one or two on-topic, 
knowledgeable and non-abusing posts in every twenty or twenty-five, but the 
ratio should be convincing.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* If you want a kitten, start out by asking for a horse.  -from "Great Truths 
Kids Have Learned" */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 16:11

OMG Darren! What can we do to support you (and the list)?

--- On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:24:23 +, Darren Evans-Young  
wrote:
>I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
>
>He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
>discrimination and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint 
>was sent to the President and the Chief Administrative Officer at The 
>University of Alabama.

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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[M. Ray Mullins]

I have done this, too. Since I’m on vacation, I couldn’t remember all the steps 
to do this, so I didn’t want to mention it. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 18, 2023, at 13:22, Tom Marchant 
> <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> I have been unable to convince my site to increase the maximum number of 
> split screens, so I created my own ISPCFIGU that allows 32 and placed it in 
> ISPLLIB. I've shown a few other people how to do it. I often use more than 8, 
> and sometimes more than 16.
> 
> -- 
> Tom Marchant
> 
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 13:11:23 -0700, M. Ray Mullins  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Just a correction: the default number of screens in ISPF is 8, but you can 
>> configure up to 32. My site uses 16. 
> 
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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 16:05:18 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:
>
>I've decided this is supporting my thesis-can't quite tell? Or are you saying 
>this is one of those cases where breaking it out into several messages would 
>have made sense?
>
One of my pet peeves is disjunctive explanations:
"Either X or Y occurred",
where X and Y are utterly unrelated and could only have been
discovered by distinct tests.

But the subroutine which performs both tests returns for either
failure with RC=4 and the caller can only report "either X or Y."

-- 
gil

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Lance D. Jackson]

Good.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Darren Evans-Young
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 15:24
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Bill Johnson

I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.

He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of
discrimination and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was
sent to the President and the Chief Administrative Officer at The University
of Alabama.

Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that
hosts listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm
told to take the list down, please contact me off-list
(dar...@ua.edu).

Darren

P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Tom Marchant]

I have been unable to convince my site to increase the maximum number of split 
screens, so I created my own ISPCFIGU that allows 32 and placed it in ISPLLIB. 
I've shown a few other people how to do it. I often use more than 8, and 
sometimes more than 16.

-- 
Tom Marchant

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 13:11:23 -0700, M. Ray Mullins  
wrote:

>Just a correction: the default number of screens in ISPF is 8, but you can 
>configure up to 32. My site uses 16.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Dean Kent]

Should it come to that - two potential options for hosting the mailing 
list, if not a private university, would be IBM (though it likely wants 
to remain at arm's length) and SHARE.    There is the discord chat, 
which a lot of regulars here seem to be on.    Or a small non-profit 
that would beg for donations... :-P.


On 9/18/2023 1:01 PM, Dave Beagle wrote:

Public


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 18, 2023, 3:57 PM, Dean Kent  wrote:

Question - since the list is run out of a University - is it publicly
funded or privately?

On 9/18/2023 12:24 PM, Darren Evans-Young wrote:

I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.

He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
discrimination
and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
President and
the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.

Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
hosts
listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to take
the list down, please contact me off-list (dar...@ua.edu).

Darren

P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Dave Beagle]

Public


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 18, 2023, 3:57 PM, Dean Kent  wrote:

Question - since the list is run out of a University - is it publicly 
funded or privately?

On 9/18/2023 12:24 PM, Darren Evans-Young wrote:
> I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
>
> He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
> discrimination
> and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
> President and
> the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.
>
> Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
> hosts
> listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to 
> take
> the list down, please contact me off-list 
> (dar...@ua.edu).
>
> Darren
>
> P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.
>
> --
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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[M. Ray Mullins]

Just a correction: the default number of screens in ISPF is 8, but you can 
configure up to 32. My site uses 16. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 18, 2023, at 12:06, Schmitt, Michael  wrote:
> 
> Same problem occurs with any other application that doesn't use the same 
> RFIND as ISPF. DSLIST entered from that command can lead to errors. I just 
> used SDSF because it is an example of an IBM application, so they can't blame 
> it on some other company.
> 
> The root cause here is that ANY command that can lead to ISPF Edit or Browse 
> or View needs to switch to the ISPF applid, or else that application must 
> define the commands as ISPF expects. The DSLIST command can lead to ISPF 
> Edit/Browse/View, but it doesn't switch the APPLID. It should.
> 
> My company has corrected the problem internally but that doesn't help anyone 
> else.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Sri h Kolusu
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 1:38 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...
> 
>>> For example, go to SDSF, then do DSLIST, then browse a data set from the 
>>> list, then find something, then PF5 (RFIND). It won't work, because SDSF's 
>>> PF5 is not RFIND; it is IFIND and there's no RFIND defined in ISFCMDS.
> I reported this to IBM YEARS ago but they haven't fixed it.
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/ibm-main@bama.ua.edu/msg06759.html
> 
> Thanks,
> Kolusu
> 
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Re: Bill Johnson

[Gibney, Dave]

FWIW, discussions of Bill and thanking Darren are technically not about IBM 
Mainframes 

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Tom Marchant
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 1:08 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Bill Johnson
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> 
> Thank you Darren.
> 
> Bill was primarily disruptive and contributed very little to the list.
> It would be a shame if his disruptive tactics resulted in the list being shut
> down.
> 
> --
> Tom Marchant
> 
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:24:23 +, Darren Evans-Young
>  wrote:
> 
> >I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
> >
> >He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of
> discrimination
> >and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the
> President and
> >the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.
> >
> >Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that
> hosts
> >listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to
> take
> >the list down, please contact me off-list
> (dar...@ua.edu).
> >
> >Darren
> >
> >P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.
> 
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Charles Mills]

OMG Darren! What can we do to support you (and the list)?

Charles

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:24:23 +, Darren Evans-Young  wrote:

>I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
>
>He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
>discrimination
>and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
>President and
>the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Tom Marchant]

Thank you Darren. 

Bill was primarily disruptive and contributed very little to the list. 
It would be a shame if his disruptive tactics resulted in the list being shut 
down.

-- 
Tom Marchant

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:24:23 +, Darren Evans-Young  wrote:

>I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
>
>He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
>discrimination
>and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
>President and
>the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.
>
>Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
>hosts
>listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to 
>take
>the list down, please contact me off-list 
>(dar...@ua.edu).
>
>Darren
>
>P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Bob T Roller]

The university of Alabama is a public university and receives both state & 
federal funding.

Sent from [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) for iOS

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 3:19 PM, Phil Smith III <[li...@akphs.com](mailto:On 
Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 3:19 PM, Phil Smith III < wrote:

> While I agree that it would be nice if the messages were complete, I'm not 
> sure I can see a business case for IBM to implement that. It would cost a 
> lot, consume the last two or three remaining docs folks well past their 
> retirement age, and.for what? Will it increase z/OS uptake? I doubt it.
>
> Me, I'd settle for the hex codes having good and centralized explanations. 
> Though I realize that way could lie madness, as it could encourage 
> laziness-adding new messages as just another such code rather than thinking 
> about it and giving a "real" error message.
>
> I and others have observed that when creating good software, error handling 
> can be the largest part of the job. In complex environments, there are often 
> many, many errors that *should* never appear. Bad software ignores those 
> errors, figuring it'll show up somewhere else (as it often does, to the 
> user's complete confusion); or falls back on a catch-all, like Microsoft's 
> "That didn't work", with no additional info and no idea what to do about it.
>
> One school would have every such error try to be complete and distinct, so 
> that errors 4832 and 4833 might be similar but are definitely differentiated. 
> But then if you're documenting the errors, your manual/database may be 75% 
> such errors-for all of which the suggested action is "Contact support", since 
> it's basically "We have no idea what you did to even cause this?!"
>
> For such errors, I'd argue that a single error *with a distinct subcode* is 
> more useful: "Internal error 1234; contact support". That takes one entry in 
> the Messages & Codes, and since there is no real additional useful 
> information to record, it's no less helpful to the user. I suspect that's 
> where the USS hex error codes came from originally, though I sure don't know.
>
> When this is the approach, it's probably important to have a goal-and perhaps 
> a policy-of paying attention to occurrences of such errors, and making them 
> more "real" if appropriate. Maybe that sounds obvious, but it's really 
> self-defense as much as anything: if "Internal error 1234" means "You need to 
> enable the Florblatz option and try again", you change that case of the error 
> to say just that, thus eliminating (some of!) the support calls.
>
> --
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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Phil Smith III]

Steve Beaver wrote:
>I can remember when IDC3009I was just maybe half a page max.

>Now you look at IDC3009I and it pages upon pages of diagnostic codes 
>and what they mean

I've decided this is supporting my thesis-can't quite tell? Or are you saying 
this is one of those cases where breaking it out into several messages would 
have made sense?


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Re: Bill Johnson

[Dean Kent]

OK.   Just thinking that if the listserv is not funded publicly, there 
should be no 1st Amendment issue...


On 9/18/2023 1:01 PM, Mike Schwab wrote:

University of Alabama.  Mostly State.  Some private.  Probably some
research.  Sports tickets revenue (basketball, footbal, etc.).

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 2:57 PM Dean Kent  wrote:

Question - since the list is run out of a University - is it publicly
funded or privately?

On 9/18/2023 12:24 PM, Darren Evans-Young wrote:

I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.

He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
discrimination
and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
President and
the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.

Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
hosts
listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to take
the list down, please contact me off-list (dar...@ua.edu).

Darren

P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Steve Beaver]

I and others have observed that when creating good software, error handling
can be the largest part of the job. In complex environments, there are often
many, many errors that *should* never appear. Bad software ignores those
errors, figuring it'll show up somewhere else (as it often does, to the
user's complete confusion); or falls back on a catch-all, like Microsoft's
"That didn't work", with no additional info and no idea what to do about it.

I can remember when IDC3009I was just maybe half a page max.

Now you look at IDC3009I and it pages upon pages of diagnostic codes and
what they mean





-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Phil Smith III
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 2:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

While I agree that it would be nice if the messages were complete, I'm not
sure I can see a business case for IBM to implement that. It would cost a
lot, consume the last two or three remaining docs folks well past their
retirement age, and.for what? Will it increase z/OS uptake? I doubt it.

 

Me, I'd settle for the hex codes having good and centralized explanations.
Though I realize that way could lie madness, as it could encourage
laziness-adding new messages as just another such code rather than thinking
about it and giving a "real" error message.

 

I and others have observed that when creating good software, error handling
can be the largest part of the job. In complex environments, there are often
many, many errors that *should* never appear. Bad software ignores those
errors, figuring it'll show up somewhere else (as it often does, to the
user's complete confusion); or falls back on a catch-all, like Microsoft's
"That didn't work", with no additional info and no idea what to do about it.

 

One school would have every such error try to be complete and distinct, so
that errors 4832 and 4833 might be similar but are definitely
differentiated. But then if you're documenting the errors, your
manual/database may be 75% such errors-for all of which the suggested action
is "Contact support", since it's basically "We have no idea what you did to
even cause this?!"

 

For such errors, I'd argue that a single error *with a distinct subcode* is
more useful: "Internal error 1234; contact support". That takes one entry in
the Messages & Codes, and since there is no real additional useful
information to record, it's no less helpful to the user. I suspect that's
where the USS hex error codes came from originally, though I sure don't
know.

 

When this is the approach, it's probably important to have a goal-and
perhaps a policy-of paying attention to occurrences of such errors, and
making them more "real" if appropriate. Maybe that sounds obvious, but it's
really self-defense as much as anything: if "Internal error 1234" means "You
need to enable the Florblatz option and try again", you change that case of
the error to say just that, thus eliminating (some of!) the support calls.


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Re: Bill Johnson

[Mike Schwab]

University of Alabama.  Mostly State.  Some private.  Probably some
research.  Sports tickets revenue (basketball, footbal, etc.).

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 2:57 PM Dean Kent  wrote:
>
> Question - since the list is run out of a University - is it publicly
> funded or privately?
>
> On 9/18/2023 12:24 PM, Darren Evans-Young wrote:
> > I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
> >
> > He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
> > discrimination
> > and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
> > President and
> > the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.
> >
> > Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
> > hosts
> > listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to 
> > take
> > the list down, please contact me off-list 
> > (dar...@ua.edu).
> >
> > Darren
> >
> > P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Dean Kent]

Question - since the list is run out of a University - is it publicly 
funded or privately?


On 9/18/2023 12:24 PM, Darren Evans-Young wrote:

I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.

He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
discrimination
and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
President and
the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.

Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
hosts
listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to take
the list down, please contact me off-list (dar...@ua.edu).

Darren

P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 22:26:59 +0300, Itschak Mugzach wrote:
>
>Most of us have a rule to ignore his posts. 
>
But private rules still leave the archives cluttered.

>The list is too valuable to shut down.
>
Yes.


>On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 10:24 PM Darren Evans-Young wrote:
>>
>> ... discrimination and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  ...
>> 
Where did he get that idea?  Doesn't sound very original.

Is a quota system possible?  Some lists have such.

-- 
gil

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Roberto Halais]

Well done. I support your decidion.

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 3:35 PM John Abell <
john.ab...@intnlsoftwareproducts.com> wrote:

> Mon Dieu as we would say in my country's other official language.
>
> John T. Abell
> Tel:800-295-7608Option 4
> President
> International:  1-416-593-5578  Option 4
> E-mail:  john.ab...@intnlsoftwareproducts.com
> Fax:800-295-7609
>
> International:  1-416-593-5579
>
>
> International Software Products
> www.ispinfo.com
>
>
> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole
> use
> of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, retention, distribution or
> disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient (or authorized to receive on behalf of the named recipient),
> please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this
> message. Also,email is susceptible to data corruption, interception,
> tampering, unauthorized amendment and viruses. We only send and receive
> emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption,
> interception, tampering, amendment or viruses or any consequence thereof.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Darren Evans-Young
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 3:24 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Bill Johnson
>
> I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
>
> He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of
> discrimination and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was
> sent to the President and the Chief Administrative Officer at The
> University
> of Alabama.
>
> Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that
> hosts listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm
> told to take the list down, please contact me off-list
> (dar...@ua.edu).
>
> Darren
>
> P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.
>
> --
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> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
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RCFs: sic transit mhvr...@us.ibm.com

[Paul Gilmartin]

I just submitted an RCF via email.  I got an automatic form-letter reply:

Thank you for providing feedback. It was sent to the z/OS Content team for 
review.

As of 29 September 2023, the mhvr...@us.ibm.com email address is no longer 
monitored. Instead, use one of the following methods to provide feedback to IBM 
on the z/OS product documentation: 

·  If you are an IBM customer, you can send feedback to IBM by selecting 
“Was this topic helpful?” at the top of the content page in the latest z/OS 
release. 
...

So it will be all web.  And it can sometimes be hard to find the web
page when reading the PDF.

-- 
gil

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Re: Bill Johnson

[John Abell]

Mon Dieu as we would say in my country's other official language.

John T. Abell   
Tel:800-295-7608Option 4
President 
International:  1-416-593-5578  Option 4
E-mail:  john.ab...@intnlsoftwareproducts.com
Fax:800-295-7609

International:  1-416-593-5579


International Software Products
www.ispinfo.com


This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use
of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, retention, distribution or
disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended 
recipient (or authorized to receive on behalf of the named recipient),
please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this
message. Also,email is susceptible to data corruption, interception, 
tampering, unauthorized amendment and viruses. We only send and receive
emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption,
interception, tampering, amendment or viruses or any consequence thereof.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Darren Evans-Young
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 3:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Bill Johnson

I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.

He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of
discrimination and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was
sent to the President and the Chief Administrative Officer at The University
of Alabama.

Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that
hosts listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm
told to take the list down, please contact me off-list
(dar...@ua.edu).

Darren

P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: Bill Johnson

[Itschak Mugzach]

Darren,

Most of us have a rule to ignore his posts. The list is too valuable to
shut down.

ITschak

*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS, zLinux
and IBM I **|  *

*|* *Email**: i_mugz...@securiteam.co.il **|* *Mob**: +972 522 986404 **|*
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On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 10:24 PM Darren Evans-Young  wrote:

> I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.
>
> He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of
> discrimination
> and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the
> President and
> the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.
>
> Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university
> that hosts
> listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told
> to take
> the list down, please contact me off-list (dar...@ua.edu dar...@ua.edu>).
>
> Darren
>
> P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.
>
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Bill Johnson

[Darren Evans-Young]

I have removed Bill Johnson from the IBM-MAIN list and you all know why.

He has now officially lodged a complaint against me accusing me of 
discrimination
and violating his 1st Amendment rights.  This complaint was sent to the 
President and
the Chief Administrative Officer at The University of Alabama.

Worst case, I'll have to dissolve IBM-MAIN. If you are at a university that 
hosts
listserv lists, and would be able to host IBM-MAIN in the event I'm told to take
the list down, please contact me off-list (dar...@ua.edu).

Darren

P.S. - Please do not contact Bill Johnson. It will only make things worse.

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Phil Smith III]

While I agree that it would be nice if the messages were complete, I'm not sure 
I can see a business case for IBM to implement that. It would cost a lot, 
consume the last two or three remaining docs folks well past their retirement 
age, and.for what? Will it increase z/OS uptake? I doubt it.

 

Me, I'd settle for the hex codes having good and centralized explanations. 
Though I realize that way could lie madness, as it could encourage 
laziness-adding new messages as just another such code rather than thinking 
about it and giving a "real" error message.

 

I and others have observed that when creating good software, error handling can 
be the largest part of the job. In complex environments, there are often many, 
many errors that *should* never appear. Bad software ignores those errors, 
figuring it'll show up somewhere else (as it often does, to the user's complete 
confusion); or falls back on a catch-all, like Microsoft's "That didn't work", 
with no additional info and no idea what to do about it.

 

One school would have every such error try to be complete and distinct, so that 
errors 4832 and 4833 might be similar but are definitely differentiated. But 
then if you're documenting the errors, your manual/database may be 75% such 
errors-for all of which the suggested action is "Contact support", since it's 
basically "We have no idea what you did to even cause this?!"

 

For such errors, I'd argue that a single error *with a distinct subcode* is 
more useful: "Internal error 1234; contact support". That takes one entry in 
the Messages & Codes, and since there is no real additional useful information 
to record, it's no less helpful to the user. I suspect that's where the USS hex 
error codes came from originally, though I sure don't know.

 

When this is the approach, it's probably important to have a goal-and perhaps a 
policy-of paying attention to occurrences of such errors, and making them more 
"real" if appropriate. Maybe that sounds obvious, but it's really self-defense 
as much as anything: if "Internal error 1234" means "You need to enable the 
Florblatz option and try again", you change that case of the error to say just 
that, thus eliminating (some of!) the support calls.


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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Schmitt, Michael]

Same problem occurs with any other application that doesn't use the same RFIND 
as ISPF. DSLIST entered from that command can lead to errors. I just used SDSF 
because it is an example of an IBM application, so they can't blame it on some 
other company.

The root cause here is that ANY command that can lead to ISPF Edit or Browse or 
View needs to switch to the ISPF applid, or else that application must define 
the commands as ISPF expects. The DSLIST command can lead to ISPF 
Edit/Browse/View, but it doesn't switch the APPLID. It should.

My company has corrected the problem internally but that doesn't help anyone 
else.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
h Kolusu
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 1:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

>> For example, go to SDSF, then do DSLIST, then browse a data set from the 
>> list, then find something, then PF5 (RFIND). It won't work, because SDSF's 
>> PF5 is not RFIND; it is IFIND and there's no RFIND defined in ISFCMDS.
I reported this to IBM YEARS ago but they haven't fixed it.

https://www.mail-archive.com/ibm-main@bama.ua.edu/msg06759.html

Thanks,
Kolusu

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Mike Shaw]

Thanks for the mention, Binyamin and Lionel.

We have spent a lot of hours studying IBM error messages and how they are
issued and relate to each other.

The eight digit OMVS error reason codes are my pet peeve. Some are issued
by the C/C++ runtime modules, some by ZFS support, some by UNIX support
code.

IBM has he BPXMTEXT facility to help with displaying an English explanation
for some of those error codes, but not all.

MVS/QuickRef does display meanings for all those error codes for certain
messages, e.g. if BPXF171E is displayed, we show the possible HFS/ZFS error
codes below its description, on one screen, to save the user time.

Mike Shaw
MVS/QuickRef Support Group
Chicago-Soft, Ltd.



On Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 10:43 AM Lionel B. Dyck  wrote:

> My guess is that even if IBM were to accept this idea and begin
> implementation that it would take years, perhaps decades, and that they
> would begin with the shell commands/tools.  While I would love to see it
> expand to all of z/OS I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen, or for
> it to happen in my lifetime.
>
> MVS/QuickRef is one of those products that every, repeat *EVERY* z/OS shop
> should have installed. While some claim Google/etc. could replace it, I
> wouldn't place any bets on that.
>
>
> Lionel B. Dyck <><
> Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
>
> “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what
> you
> are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of
> Binyamin Dissen
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 9:37 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)
>
> Do you want to put QuickRef out of business?
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 07:06:48 -0500 "Lionel B. Dyck" 
> wrote:
>
> :>I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you’re
> able
> :>to vote:
> :>
> :>
> https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-382
> 7
> :>
> :>The text is:
> :>
> :>Title:
> :>All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
> :>referencing a Messages and Codes manual :>
> :>Text:
> :>Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command):
> IDFS00329E :>Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code
> ED07621A. Is :>confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user.
> They are not used :>to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so
> last
> millennium) and :>using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and
> similar, messages.
> :>
> :>All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and
> complete,
> :>messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual.
> The :>days of the 1960's and 1970's to
>
> --
> Binyamin Dissen  http://www.dissensoftware.com
>
> Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
>
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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 17:18:23 +, Farley, Peter wrote:

>Isn’t that pretty much what BPXMTEXT does?  Is it VM/CMS that allows you to 
>enter a “command” of just a question mark “?” after an error condition to get 
>a more complete explanation of an error?  Could the shell program support such 
>a “command” to automatically invoke BPXMTEXT for the most recent error codes?  
>Could BPXMTEXT be enhanced to retrieve the latest-occurring error codes when 
>no argument is given and look those up automatically?
>
Yes.  


How about an environment variable such as BPXMMSGLEVEL, which perror()
could sense and call BPXMTEXT for some non-default settings?

Extension to Classic MVS is left as an exercise.

-- 
gil

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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Sri h Kolusu]

>> For example, go to SDSF, then do DSLIST, then browse a data set from the 
>> list, then find something, then PF5 (RFIND). It won't work, because SDSF's 
>> PF5 is not RFIND; it is IFIND and there's no RFIND defined in ISFCMDS.
I reported this to IBM YEARS ago but they haven't fixed it.

https://www.mail-archive.com/ibm-main@bama.ua.edu/msg06759.html

Thanks,
Kolusu

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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Schmitt, Michael]

I know there's a conflict. That's the issue: FTOPEN TEMP is reusing the same 
data set name in the same ISPF session. This conflict doesn't occur if the 
application generates its own data set name for file tailoring.

Yes, it is a personal preference. When I need more than 2 simultaneous then I 
do that, but most of the time I need to view something and return, so I can 
stack the browse/edit/view on top of what I'm doing. Over the last 30 years my 
company, team, and myself have created lots and lots of productivity commands 
that enable this.

What I used to do when I had the situation I needed to view 3 or 4 things 
simultaneously is use the web server access to MVS data sets, to open the file 
in a web browser. But that doesn't work anymore because it uses basic 
authentication, which is no longer permitted in the web browser.


How I Stack:
- STACK command (I like it better than START for reasons)
- BR command browses
- ED command edits
- VW command views
- MBRLIST command does a member list
- DSLIST command (comes with ISPF)
- SDSF command, although normally I just STACK;S
- CAVIEW command
- EASE command stacks our development environment
- AT command does edit/browse/view/any other TSO command using the data set at 
cursor
- QA command does "quick action". I wrote it but don't use it.
- DMB/E command browse or edits a member in the same concatenation as the 
current member
- FINDPROC command browse/edit/versions etc. procs in the member being edited
- PGMXREF does a program cross-reference
- DSNXREF does a data set cross-reference
- PROCXREF does a proc cross-reference
- IMSXREF does an IMS cross-reference
- WHEREIS searches, versions, browse, edit, etc. any member in any allocated DD
- DDLIST ISPF's version of WHEREIS, sort of

And several dozen more that I'm not remembering.

Any of these commands results in a new, stacked command line, which means that 
there's now an opportunity for the user to enter ANY other command.

What I've seen over the years is dialog developers don't account for this. If 
you display a panel, or do something that does, now you've give control back to 
the user, and they will MESS YOU UP.

Even IBM has problems with this. For example, the DSLIST command comes with 
ISPF, but it doesn't set NEWAPPL. This means if you use it on top of an 
application whose command table / keylists are not ISPF standard, it leads to 
errors.

For example, go to SDSF, then do DSLIST, then browse a data set from the list, 
then find something, then PF5 (RFIND). It won't work, because SDSF's PF5 is not 
RFIND; it is IFIND and there's no RFIND defined in ISFCMDS.

I reported this to IBM YEARS ago but they haven't fixed it.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
h Kolusu
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 12:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

>> the command line that eventually leads to another FTOPEN. This is like 
>> saying that "why are you making left turns? You can just make a bunch of 
>> right turns instead". The capability exists, it should work.

Michael,

In your case since you are EDITING the supec generated JCL in batch, it is 
opened in EXCLUSIVE mode and unless you close it, no one else can access it.  
That behavior is same across any operating system.  The FTOPEN error is the 
result of Enqueue failure.

>>(they don't know how to name their screens).

SCRNAME has existed for a long time.  With ZSTART parm, you can stack the 
commands to having multiple screens along with their names.   And if someone 
forgot as to how many screens they have ,then they can use SWAPBAR ON and it 
shows ALL of the screens with their names and you can point to the screen of 
your choice using the mouse and click on it to get to the desired screen.

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=commands-scrname

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=commands-swapbar

>> FWIW, I almost never create more than two ISPF screens. I do my work by 
>> stacking commands on top of each other.

I know it is a personal preference but, aren't you limiting yourself when you 
need more than 2 screens ?  For example Viewing a DUMP in 1 screen and the 
LISTING in 1 screen and Input/output files in another screen ?  Also, just 
curious as to how you are keeping track of your stacked sessions?  Let's  say 
you stacked 8 layers and then when you need to get out of each session, how do 
you ensure that you accidentally don't close a session that you need to save?

Thanks,
Kolusu


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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Sri h Kolusu]

>> the command line that eventually leads to another FTOPEN. This is like 
>> saying that "why are you making left turns? You can just make a bunch of 
>> right turns instead". The capability exists, it should work.

Michael,

In your case since you are EDITING the supec generated JCL in batch, it is 
opened in EXCLUSIVE mode and unless you close it, no one else can access it.  
That behavior is same across any operating system.  The FTOPEN error is the 
result of Enqueue failure.

>>(they don't know how to name their screens).

SCRNAME has existed for a long time.  With ZSTART parm, you can stack the 
commands to having multiple screens along with their names.   And if someone 
forgot as to how many screens they have ,then they can use SWAPBAR ON and it 
shows ALL of the screens with their names and you can point to the screen of 
your choice using the mouse and click on it to get to the desired screen.

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=commands-scrname

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=commands-swapbar

>> FWIW, I almost never create more than two ISPF screens. I do my work by 
>> stacking commands on top of each other.

I know it is a personal preference but, aren't you limiting yourself when you 
need more than 2 screens ?  For example Viewing a DUMP in 1 screen and the 
LISTING in 1 screen and Input/output files in another screen ?  Also, just 
curious as to how you are keeping track of your stacked sessions?  Let's  say 
you stacked 8 layers and then when you need to get out of each session, how do 
you ensure that you accidentally don't close a session that you need to save?

Thanks,
Kolusu


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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Farley, Peter]

Isn’t that pretty much what BPXMTEXT does?  Is it VM/CMS that allows you to 
enter a “command” of just a question mark “?” after an error condition to get a 
more complete explanation of an error?  Could the shell program support such a 
“command” to automatically invoke BPXMTEXT for the most recent error codes?  
Could BPXMTEXT be enhanced to retrieve the latest-occurring error codes when no 
argument is given and look those up automatically?

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 10:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)


On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:51:36 -0400, Rick Troth wrote:



>A confluence of several things.

>First, z/VM has a facility (been there for decades) that facilitates

>(sorta) what you're talking about.

>MVS people, please don't shrink back. We can easily have the same

>service on z/OS.

>

See: 

Isn't there a command line wrapper for this?



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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Schmitt, Michael]

The underlying problem is at risk anytime a user enters a command on the 
command line that eventually leads to another FTOPEN. This is like saying that 
"why are you making left turns? You can just make a bunch of right turns 
instead". The capability exists, it should work.

When *I* create ISPF dialogs and commands, I code them so that they don't get 
data set name, DD name, table name, or LIBDEF name conflicts *regardless* of 
what the user does, where they do it, or how many times they do it in the same 
second. Which is why *I* don't use FTOPEN TEMP. But ISPF does, hence the 
problem.


FWIW, I almost never create more than two ISPF screens. I do my work by 
stacking commands on top of each other. I find it makes it easier to keep 
track. I see other people creating so many screens that they spend half their 
time trying to find which screen is the right one (they don't know how to name 
their screens).

And I'm not the only one who stacks sessions. Remember that the SuperC conflict 
was reported to me by another user.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
h Kolusu
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 11:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

>> Then in that Edit session, I enter DSLIST and a pattern that leads to a 
>> library. From the DSLIST, I browse the library, and enter SRCHFOR something. 
>> That creates a second FTOPEN TEMP to build the input to the search, on top 
>> of the previous one, all within the same ISPF session. What would the data 
>> set name be?


Michael,

You are using the same Screen and if you issued the SRCHFOR on the DSLIST panel 
when it brings up the list you would have gotten the exact error message 
"ENQUEUE failed" at the top right corner. And if you pressed PF1, then you 
would have got this message.

---
| Data set SPFCNTLX in use, ENQUEUE failed.   |
---

This is the reason for the Allocation error

Since ISPF provides you up to 8 screens, why NOT issue the SRCHFOR in another 
screen ?  By doing so , the respective screen LIST/work datasets will be opened.

Thanks,
Kolusu


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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Mike Schwab]

DSN=hlq.MESSAGE.Epfxlng.   (message prefix, language code).
IDCAMS Repro

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 10:32 AM Paul Gilmartin
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:47:54 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:
> >
> >Seems like I'm going against the current, here, but if they tried to add all
> >the text of every message manual to every app ... nah, I can't see it.
> >
> Don't keep the texts in the apps themselves.  Keep them in a KSDS.
>
> Could even be locale-aware.
>
> Can a PTF update a KSDS?
>
> Is this still (again?) useful?:
> 
>
> --
> gil
>
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Sri h Kolusu]

>> Then in that Edit session, I enter DSLIST and a pattern that leads to a 
>> library. From the DSLIST, I browse the library, and enter SRCHFOR something. 
>> That creates a second FTOPEN TEMP to build the input to the search, on top 
>> of the previous one, all within the same ISPF session. What would the data 
>> set name be?


Michael,

You are using the same Screen and if you issued the SRCHFOR on the DSLIST panel 
when it brings up the list you would have gotten the exact error message 
"ENQUEUE failed" at the top right corner. And if you pressed PF1, then you 
would have got this message.

---
| Data set SPFCNTLX in use, ENQUEUE failed.   |
---

This is the reason for the Allocation error

Since ISPF provides you up to 8 screens, why NOT issue the SRCHFOR in another 
screen ?  By doing so , the respective screen LIST/work datasets will be opened.

Thanks,
Kolusu


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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Schmitt, Michael]

I'm not following this.

Let's say I have pre-allocated work DDs, and I start ISPF.

Then I go to SuperC, request a batch compare, and that I want to edit the 
generated batch JCL. That's one FTOPEN TEMP. What would the data set name be?

Then in that Edit session, I enter DSLIST and a pattern that leads to a 
library. From the DSLIST, I browse the library, and enter SRCHFOR something. 
That creates a second FTOPEN TEMP to build the input to the search, on top of 
the previous one, all within the same ISPF session. What would the data set 
name be?

(I gave the above example because it can be tested using purely standard 
out-of-the-box ISPF functions.)


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
h Kolusu
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 10:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

>>- Not sure how this would help. Would it change the data set name generated 
>>by FTOPEN TEMP? And in a way that would create a different data set in a 
>>stacked session?

Michael,

If they are pre-allocated, then you would have Individual list/work datasets 
for each stacked session. So, it would open the respective session dataset and 
there by avoid allocating the same TEMP dataset and will not have the error 
that you are encountering.

Thanks,
Kolusu

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Re: Free SMPE product to just practice

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 15.09.2023 o 09:23, Timothy Sipples pisze:

I’ve seen some good suggestions. Also, there are several no additional license 
charge products available from IBM for z/OS than you can order. Here are some 
examples:

5655-UA1IBM Semuru Runtime Certified Edition for z/OS
5655-PYT IBM Open Enterprise Python for z/OS
5698-PA1 IBM Z Open Automation Utilities

Double check whether there are any charges, of course, but my understanding is no. 
Optional Subscription & Support may be chargeable.


To complement - there are other so called web deliverables in SMP/E format.
Some examples are Open XL C/C++ 1.1 for z/OS or (older) ICSF.
Usually it is FILE.Z with FILE2.pax which in turn contain CBPDO.
All of them are free of charge and do not require any paperwork 
(contracts, etc.). Of course all of them do require z/OS, so that 
license is default assumption.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Sri h Kolusu]

>>- Not sure how this would help. Would it change the data set name generated 
>>by FTOPEN TEMP? And in a way that would create a different data set in a 
>>stacked session?

Michael,

If they are pre-allocated, then you would have Individual list/work datasets 
for each stacked session. So, it would open the respective session dataset and 
there by avoid allocating the same TEMP dataset and will not have the error 
that you are encountering.

Thanks,
Kolusu

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Re: SORT INCLUDE problem

[Sri h Kolusu]

>> Is there a way to get all the dataset profiles that have two different 
>> groups with the same access using SORT or ICETOOL but without using 
>> JOINKEYS, so that the input file would only needed to be read once, using 
>> SORTIN as the DDNAME?

Jack,

That is quite simple.  There is a lot of functionality that DFSORT can offer to 
get the desired results.

So, if your intention is to find the COMMON datasets for ACC of GPRFCICS and 
GPRFSTG, here is a JCL that will give you the desired results.  You don't even 
have to filter out Type 0404 records separately as we can do it in a Single 
pass of data from the raw IRRDBU00 output.

//STEP0100 EXEC PGM=SORT
//SYSOUT   DD SYSOUT=*
//SORTDIAG DD DUMMY
//SORTIN   DD DISP=SHR,DSN=Your.raw.IRRDBU00.output
//SORTOUT  DD SYSOUT=*
//SYMNAMES DD *
** INPUT TYPE 0404 RECORD LAYOUT **
TYP,05,04,CH
   T404,C'0404'
DSN,10,44,CH
GRP,62,08,SS
   STG,C'GPRFSTG'
  CICS,C'GPRFCICS'
ACC,71,08,CH
  ALTER,C'ALTER'
   READ,C'READ'
** REFORMATTED RECORD LAYOUT **
IN-RDW,01,04,BI
IN-DSN,*,44,CH
SKIP,1
IN-GRP,*,08,CH
SKIP,1
IN-ACC,*,08,CH
SKIP,1
TP-ACC,*,08,CH
/*
//SYSIN DD *
  OPTION VLSCMP
  INCLUDE COND=(TYP,EQ,T404,AND,
ACC,EQ,ALTER,AND,
   (GRP,EQ,STG,OR,
GRP,EQ,CICS))

   INREC BUILD=(IN-RDW,
DSN,C'|',
ACC,C'|',
GRP,C'|')

  SORT FIELDS=(IN-DSN,A,
   IN-ACC,A)

  OUTREC IFTHEN=(WHEN=GROUP,KEYBEGIN=(IN-DSN),
 PUSH=(TP-ACC:IN-ACC))

  OUTFIL VTOF,
  BUILD=(IN-DSN),
  INCLUDE=(IN-ACC,EQ,STG,AND,
   TP-ACC,EQ,CICS)
/*

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: Generate a data set with record numbers?

[Farley, Peter]

+1

I have always admired the product but I have really a hard time using the 
manual effectively.  It leaves MUCH to be desired.

Peter

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Schmitt, Michael
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 10:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Generate a data set with record numbers?


Thanks, "REPEAT" was what I was looking for.





I think the SyncSort MFX manual is in the top 2 (bottom 2?) for hardest to 
figure out capabilities and syntax.



-Original Message-

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
h Kolusu

Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 5:01 PM

To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Subject: Re: Generate a data set with record numbers?



>> The question is, what's the simplest way to do this with a *standard* z/OS 
>> utility (i.e. that comes with z/OS), or with a standard sort product (e.g. 
>> DFSORT or SyncSort), where it is all in a self-contained job?



Michael,



DFSORT can generate the sequenced records quite easily. Use the following JCL. 
It will generate an 8 byte sequence number. You can change the REPEAT=n  to the 
desired number of records that you want.



//STEP0100 EXEC PGM=SORT

//SYSOUT   DD SYSOUT=*

//SORTIN   DD *

ABC

//SORTOUT  DD SYSOUT=*

//SYSINDD *

  OPTION COPY

  OUTFIL REPEAT=1000,

  BUILD=(C'RECORD ',SEQNUM,8,ZD)

/*



If you want the leading zeroes suppressed then you can use FS format instead of 
ZD



Thanks,

Kolusu

DFSORT Development

IBM Corporation

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:47:54 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:
>
>Seems like I'm going against the current, here, but if they tried to add all
>the text of every message manual to every app ... nah, I can't see it.
>
Don't keep the texts in the apps themselves.  Keep them in a KSDS.

Could even be locale-aware.

Can a PTF update a KSDS?

Is this still (again?) useful?:


-- 
gil

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Online Forum for discussing all things CBTTape

[Lionel B. Dyck]

There is now a cbttape channel on the System Z Enthusiasts Discord server for 
discussing all things CBT.

The link is ⁠System Z Enthusiasts⁠ 
https://discord.com/channels/880322471608344597/1153346108198768683 if you have 
already joined and https://discord.gg/hxRhtu8KnW if you haven't.

This Discord channel is using the Discord forum type of channel to easily 
categorize discussions and keep them organized.

Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

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Re: Generate a data set with record numbers?

[Schmitt, Michael]

Huh. I always thought that SYSEXEC had to be a library.

I suppose a sequential SYSEXEC only works for IRXJCL, not IKJEFT01. And that if 
SYSEXEC is sequential, the exec shouldn't call other execs.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Beate Kawelke
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 1:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: Generate a data set with record numbers?

Hi Michael,

you could directly run the REXX as in-stream in the JCL: 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=routine-using-irxjcl-execute-in-stream-rexx-exec

Best regards,
Beate

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von 
Schmitt, Michael
Gesendet: Freitag, 15. September 2023 22:20
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: [IBM-MAIN] Generate a data set with record numbers?

I want to generate a data set that has the record number on each line, such as:

RECORD 1
RECORD 2
RECORD 3

Or

RECORD 1
RECORD 2
RECORD 3

Perhaps I want to generate 1,000 records. Or 10,000.

The question is, what's the simplest way to do this with a *standard* z/OS 
utility (i.e. that comes with z/OS), or with a standard sort product (e.g. 
DFSORT or SyncSort), where it is all in a self-contained job?

I thought of IEBDG or IEBGENER but I don't see where you can tell it to 
generate a sequence number in the records it is building. Is it there and I'm 
just missing it?


I came up with two solutions:

A. IEBGENER to copy instream REXX into a PDS, then IRXJCL to execute it. The 
REXX exec generates the records.

Or

B. IEBDG to generate a file of N records that just say "RECORD", followed by a 
SORT that uses INREC to modify the record to contain the RECNUM. The sort would 
just copy the records.


Both of these solutions are two steps.

I'm curious if there's a simpler solution that I haven't thought of.

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Seymour J Metz]

One of the nice things about doing documentation in DCF is that it was trivial 
to have identical text inserted into multiple documents. I don't suppose IBM 
would be willing to do everything in LaTeX.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Lionel B. Dyck 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 10:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

I'm not suggesting they would/should do it for z/OS messages but at least
for all the shell commands since those using the shell commands come from an
environment (windows/macos/linux/*nix) where messages and codes manuals are
non-existent (for the most part as I'm sure some may have them).

Bob - I agree that having the manuals in a folder on my desktop for easy
search is just part of the job *but* for the shell commands/tools the
manuals are lacking, and in the case of DSFS the messages point you to
another manual for the reason codes, etc. which is a royal pain - I
understand not having to duplicate information but forcing the user to go to
multiple places to understand a message and resolve an issue is unwarranted
and cruel. We want to encourage the younger generation to like the z/OS
environment without discouraging them with hoops to fix an issue.

Then again, even with the great M pubs, many shops (all should) have
installed MVS/QuickRef to speed up issue resolution from messages.


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/11GAOWDRW2O5nYC8y7orqiR5gaKVw2yM_aUC-RpWa40czSI5Yq1olxuXtksO7unenuydv7UoIy_aQOt3wc5b2t1sUEKzsDVrPCi9W8x4Ha37t6_Ycpz9GgGZBJmgRSwO5O2Xj1jdVwQg7YoGQXjpH1wnKTLv190Om0rm6GF-I0dfZGlhb0MOYWkomk5sTdNr2hcvZOUZbCUARc3VH6I-vuFXFfPu0xFQJAZjE9nctT1JZ6Mr4nfHzugOPH3lrgMvSoIyZeRgZJKH0uemX_bteinBMkE3_jL3XADyqM7lfBq0-JPdNkgicJ7-CiBCtpfP0hM41CPoXeODK-H7u7vwtaCXIMirhc4OunOwdMHWuWz7r6ABb84SPPtTyDv3eEqwytC4f6qc9-k6jIim6PJXiOrhCkhIDB8JgG7xkopq76fw/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Bob Bridges
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 9:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

Sorry, I can't agree.  Manuals are the lifeblood of any competent z/OS
worker, no?  And since they're available on-line, all I have to do is get a
decent collection of them.  Message manuals are among my first choice,
always.

Seems like I'm going against the current, here, but if they tried to add all
the text of every message manual to every app ... nah, I can't see it.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* They do not preach that their God will rouse them
  a little before the nuts work loose.
They do not teach that His pity allows them
  to leave their job when they damn-well choose.
  -from "The Sons of Martha" by Rudyard Kipling */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Lionel B. Dyck
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 08:07

I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you're able
to vote:

https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3827

Title:
All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
referencing a Messages and Codes manual

Text:
Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command): IDFS00329E
Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code ED07621A. Is
confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user. They are not used
to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last millennium) and
using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and similar, messages.

All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual. The
days of the 1960's and 1970's to

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Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

[Schmitt, Michael]

- I don't have authority to create or modify the login prompt (but I can change 
the DDs before ISPF starts)

- Wouldn't fix the root cause for anyone else

- Not sure how this would help. Would it change the data set name generated by 
FTOPEN TEMP? And in a way that would create a different data set in a stacked 
session?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
h Kolusu
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 5:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I have an Idea for ISPF...

>> The reason is because FTOPEN TEMP creates the file name using an ISPF "CNTL" 
>> file, which follows a certain naming format. For example: 
>> userid.lpar.SPFTEMPn.CNTL, where "n" is the logical session number. In a 
>> stacked session it is still the same session number, hence there's a naming 
>> conflict.

Michael,

How about pre-allocating the ISPF work datasets?  You can add the following to 
your LOGON proc and they would be allocated by default.  You can increase the 
allocations if you want more.

//ISPCTL0  DD  UNIT=SYSVIO,SPACE=(CYL,(10,2)),
// DCB=(RECFM=FB,LRECL=80,BLKSIZE=800)
//ISPCTL1  DD  UNIT=SYSVIO,SPACE=(CYL,(1,1)),
// DCB=(RECFM=FB,LRECL=80,BLKSIZE=800)
//ISPCTL2  DD  UNIT=SYSVIO,SPACE=(CYL,(1,1)),
// DCB=(RECFM=FB,LRECL=80,BLKSIZE=800)
//ISPWRK1  DD  UNIT=SYSVIO,SPACE=(CYL,(1,1)),
// DCB=(RECFM=FB,LRECL=256,BLKSIZE=2560)
//ISPWRK2  DD  UNIT=SYSVIO,SPACE=(CYL,(1,1)),
// DCB=(RECFM=FB,LRECL=256,BLKSIZE=2560)
//ISPLST1  DD  UNIT=SYSVIO,SPACE=(CYL,(1,1)),
// DCB=(RECFM=FBA,LRECL=121,BLKSIZE=1210)
//ISPLST2  DD  UNIT=SYSVIO,SPACE=(CYL,(1,1)),
// DCB=(RECFM=FBA,LRECL=121,BLKSIZE=1210)

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Lionel B. Dyck]

I'm not suggesting they would/should do it for z/OS messages but at least
for all the shell commands since those using the shell commands come from an
environment (windows/macos/linux/*nix) where messages and codes manuals are
non-existent (for the most part as I'm sure some may have them).

Bob - I agree that having the manuals in a folder on my desktop for easy
search is just part of the job *but* for the shell commands/tools the
manuals are lacking, and in the case of DSFS the messages point you to
another manual for the reason codes, etc. which is a royal pain - I
understand not having to duplicate information but forcing the user to go to
multiple places to understand a message and resolve an issue is unwarranted
and cruel. We want to encourage the younger generation to like the z/OS
environment without discouraging them with hoops to fix an issue.

Then again, even with the great M pubs, many shops (all should) have
installed MVS/QuickRef to speed up issue resolution from messages.


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Bob Bridges
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 9:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

Sorry, I can't agree.  Manuals are the lifeblood of any competent z/OS
worker, no?  And since they're available on-line, all I have to do is get a
decent collection of them.  Message manuals are among my first choice,
always.

Seems like I'm going against the current, here, but if they tried to add all
the text of every message manual to every app ... nah, I can't see it.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* They do not preach that their God will rouse them
  a little before the nuts work loose.
They do not teach that His pity allows them
  to leave their job when they damn-well choose.
  -from "The Sons of Martha" by Rudyard Kipling */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Lionel B. Dyck
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 08:07

I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you're able
to vote:

https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3827

Title: 
All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
referencing a Messages and Codes manual

Text:
Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command): IDFS00329E
Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code ED07621A. Is
confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user. They are not used
to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last millennium) and
using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and similar, messages.

All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual. The
days of the 1960's and 1970's to

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Seymour J Metz]

The existing manuals are certainly a necessity, but they do not provide a 
painless lookup of reason codes.  While I disagree with the details, what 
Lionel is requesting is reasonable.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Bob 
Bridges 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 10:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

Sorry, I can't agree.  Manuals are the lifeblood of any competent z/OS
worker, no?  And since they're available on-line, all I have to do is get a
decent collection of them.  Message manuals are among my first choice,
always.

Seems like I'm going against the current, here, but if they tried to add all
the text of every message manual to every app ... nah, I can't see it.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* They do not preach that their God will rouse them
  a little before the nuts work loose.
They do not teach that His pity allows them
  to leave their job when they damn-well choose.
  -from "The Sons of Martha" by Rudyard Kipling */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Lionel B. Dyck
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 08:07

I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you're able
to vote:

https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3827

Title:
All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
referencing a Messages and Codes manual

Text:
Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command): IDFS00329E
Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code ED07621A. Is
confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user. They are not used
to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last millennium) and
using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and similar, messages.

All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual. The
days of the 1960's and 1970's to

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Re: Generate a data set with record numbers?

[Schmitt, Michael]

Thanks, "REPEAT" was what I was looking for.


I think the SyncSort MFX manual is in the top 2 (bottom 2?) for hardest to 
figure out capabilities and syntax.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
h Kolusu
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 5:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Generate a data set with record numbers?

>> The question is, what's the simplest way to do this with a *standard* z/OS 
>> utility (i.e. that comes with z/OS), or with a standard sort product (e.g. 
>> DFSORT or SyncSort), where it is all in a self-contained job?

Michael,

DFSORT can generate the sequenced records quite easily. Use the following JCL. 
It will generate an 8 byte sequence number. You can change the REPEAT=n  to the 
desired number of records that you want.

//STEP0100 EXEC PGM=SORT
//SYSOUT   DD SYSOUT=*
//SORTIN   DD *
ABC
//SORTOUT  DD SYSOUT=*
//SYSINDD *
  OPTION COPY
  OUTFIL REPEAT=1000,
  BUILD=(C'RECORD ',SEQNUM,8,ZD)
/*

If you want the leading zeroes suppressed then you can use FS format instead of 
ZD

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Seymour J Metz]

Even a commitment to do it with all new messages would be a big step forward.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Lionel B. Dyck 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 10:43 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

My guess is that even if IBM were to accept this idea and begin
implementation that it would take years, perhaps decades, and that they
would begin with the shell commands/tools.  While I would love to see it
expand to all of z/OS I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen, or for
it to happen in my lifetime.

MVS/QuickRef is one of those products that every, repeat *EVERY* z/OS shop
should have installed. While some claim Google/etc. could replace it, I
wouldn't place any bets on that.


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1aGM7cWBlU2OYuRGKJGcMfP8u8DBKlk7ePnmhvToZhtoEkaIh0RepFA8rbsN2BVcN08MaTli3goZWvO8xMD-eELwXJJnSp66IvwX1ooMKAvPQaIf0Ezln76RbinwpY3P0ZH_mPb25lxe_qvmODHxQyKo0IH7TJzXbADvGa1qxmgxEBMHa2jGBWVW-Fl6Xp7340R788uQKUBgnoBvQlpMqQr1zIkx7JCUNSAYGQ29e6uyyYhNJ92xoF_pdn0zCbbBM5oKJNnAAI5j0W8Y7OrB9wZAeizZQONXJGvUe3NBA9VhuFEiBKW6qKa9HuHYJRnm92lvEHxlxI7PQN4LngrU8LUnWj9xnu7agojRp1_JCkZhNoFg7r2PKZpYNV-ylxs8KRUMxwGeqUrVVobe75j2UONqJXTs6HujhXnLU6qAXs9o/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 9:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

Do you want to put QuickRef out of business?

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 07:06:48 -0500 "Lionel B. Dyck" 
wrote:

:>I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you’re able
:>to vote:
:>
:>https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-382
7
:>
:>The text is:
:>
:>Title:
:>All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
:>referencing a Messages and Codes manual :>
:>Text:
:>Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command):
IDFS00329E :>Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code
ED07621A. Is :>confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user.
They are not used :>to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last
millennium) and :>using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and
similar, messages.
:>
:>All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
:>messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual.
The :>days of the 1960's and 1970's to

--
Binyamin Dissen  
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1a-j1muq-99k6Q8UHSg_hqUsjQ0gRpGPaOtv8d0D72Fju4Zu9HSlNk6j4OBqAlylv3Qucu2fvhWVklTiRwxTcjNZBv0_2yunL18fH41HEk87NEVmjw0QsKcrs7qJFQ8ZIp3PMl7MuMPIaz7u0kB04TqSiwNrRXAKzBmMa-sUKlTDwGXl0NUMPd9rfH7sKoEByxie8F3QJIJzL5-0ROtX9cQuPnwfjItvOrCP92jJVMUL1IAaNWAH845dcpsI50jjLwKb3JCqOdGpdOA773K7KUmz6Q1CbtW-fYRELOMbiAjJ9zix49ScVwkUBlvKsAGJQVs48y5VZablIKpMJ-LyLLoYYtQSlFUdv3RX7NOsjVmF8zHjHFSF_uUWI4ytKcAOv1nY8CuWECNlbOiAbtDfF3RIZOabGfrhWExJA-OKhIyo/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Bob Bridges]

Sorry, I can't agree.  Manuals are the lifeblood of any competent z/OS
worker, no?  And since they're available on-line, all I have to do is get a
decent collection of them.  Message manuals are among my first choice,
always.

Seems like I'm going against the current, here, but if they tried to add all
the text of every message manual to every app ... nah, I can't see it.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* They do not preach that their God will rouse them
  a little before the nuts work loose.
They do not teach that His pity allows them
  to leave their job when they damn-well choose.
  -from "The Sons of Martha" by Rudyard Kipling */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Lionel B. Dyck
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 08:07

I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you're able
to vote:

https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3827

Title: 
All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
referencing a Messages and Codes manual

Text:
Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command): IDFS00329E
Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code ED07621A. Is
confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user. They are not used
to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last millennium) and
using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and similar, messages.

All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual. The
days of the 1960's and 1970's to

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2023, at 15:53, Bill Johnson wrote:

> With a name like Bill Johnson, I would either be Scandinavian or black 
> most likely.

In the UK, Bill Johnson would be a common enough name, and neither
of those things would be likely.

I think your "most likely" needs the additional qualification of "in the 
USA", and perhaps the likelhood of the Scandinavian option depends
on how close you are to one of the areas where many Scandinavians
settled?

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Lionel B. Dyck]

My guess is that even if IBM were to accept this idea and begin
implementation that it would take years, perhaps decades, and that they
would begin with the shell commands/tools.  While I would love to see it
expand to all of z/OS I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen, or for
it to happen in my lifetime.

MVS/QuickRef is one of those products that every, repeat *EVERY* z/OS shop
should have installed. While some claim Google/etc. could replace it, I
wouldn't place any bets on that.


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 9:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

Do you want to put QuickRef out of business?

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 07:06:48 -0500 "Lionel B. Dyck" 
wrote:

:>I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you’re able
:>to vote:
:>
:>https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-382
7
:>
:>The text is:
:>
:>Title: 
:>All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
:>referencing a Messages and Codes manual :>
:>Text:
:>Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command):
IDFS00329E :>Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code
ED07621A. Is :>confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user.
They are not used :>to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last
millennium) and :>using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and
similar, messages.
:>
:>All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
:>messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual.
The :>days of the 1960's and 1970's to

--
Binyamin Dissen  http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2023, at 16:50, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Snowdon is from the old English meaning snow hill. (Snow dun) 

Dun ...

/English/?  I think not; Scots/Irish, yes, where it was a hill /fort/.

Dunedin in NZ is named thus (in homage to Edinburgh) and it's
a reference to the early name anglicised as "Dun Edin", the name
of the hill fort that was once here, in the times of the Gododdin.

Calling it "English" could start a fight here. 

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Binyamin Dissen]

Do you want to put QuickRef out of business?

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 07:06:48 -0500 "Lionel B. Dyck"  wrote:

:>I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you’re able
:>to vote:
:>
:>https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3827
:>
:>The text is:
:>
:>Title: 
:>All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
:>referencing a Messages and Codes manual
:>
:>Text:
:>Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command): IDFS00329E
:>Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code ED07621A. Is
:>confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user. They are not used
:>to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last millennium) and
:>using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and similar, messages.
:>
:>All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
:>messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual. The
:>days of the 1960's and 1970's to

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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Re: Generate a data set with record numbers?

[Schmitt, Michael]

Ah, INDEX was the parameter I needed.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Godfrey
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 4:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Generate a data set with record numbers?

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:19:32 +, Schmitt, Michael wrote:

For 80-byte records:

//DG  EXEC PGM=IEBDG
//SYSPRINT DD  SYSOUT=*
//OUTDDDD  DSN=USERID.IEBDG.DATA,DISP=SHR
//SYSINDD  *
 DSD OUTPUT=(OUTDD)
 FD NAME=REC,LENGTH=7,STARTLOC=1,PICTURE=7,'RECORD '
 FD NAME=SEQ,LENGTH=5,FORMAT=ZD,INDEX=1
 FD NAME=PAD,LENGTH=68,STARTLOC=13,FILL=X'40'
 CREATE QUANTITY=100,NAME=(REC,SEQ,PAD)

>I want to generate a data set that has the record number on each line, such as:
>
>RECORD 1
>RECORD 2
>RECORD 3
>
>Or
>
>RECORD 1
>RECORD 2
>RECORD 3
>
>Perhaps I want to generate 1,000 records. Or 10,000.
>
>The question is, what's the simplest way to do this with a *standard* z/OS 
>utility (i.e. that comes with z/OS), or with a standard sort product (e.g. 
>DFSORT or SyncSort), where it is all in a self-contained job?
>
>I thought of IEBDG or IEBGENER but I don't see where you can tell it to 
>generate a sequence number in the records it is building. Is it there and I'm 
>just missing it?
>
>
>I came up with two solutions:
>
>A. IEBGENER to copy instream REXX into a PDS, then IRXJCL to execute it. The 
>REXX exec generates the records.
>
>Or
>
>B. IEBDG to generate a file of N records that just say "RECORD", followed by a 
>SORT that uses INREC to modify the record to contain the RECNUM. The sort 
>would just copy the records.
>
>
>Both of these solutions are two steps.
>
>I'm curious if there's a simpler solution that I haven't thought of.
>

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 09:51:36 -0400, Rick Troth wrote:

>A confluence of several things.
>First, z/VM has a facility (been there for decades) that facilitates
>(sorta) what you're talking about.
>MVS people, please don't shrink back. We can easily have the same
>service on z/OS.
>
See: 
Isn't there a command line wrapper for this?

-- 
gil

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Tom Brennan]

And keep that URL valid for the life of the message.  Good luck with that.

On 9/18/2023 6:33 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:35:57 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
And include a URL for users of terminals that support links.



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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Rick Troth]

A confluence of several things.
First, z/VM has a facility (been there for decades) that facilitates 
(sorta) what you're talking about.
MVS people, please don't shrink back. We can easily have the same 
service on z/OS.


When I was in a previous gig, someone had used the VM message handler to 
mix Messages and Codes with interactive messaging.
In another gig, I followed that and added mnemonics (because in that job 
we had several hundred unique condititions with English-looking 
symbols). Another colleague had cobbled-up a handler for z/OS.

The result was ...

 * the message (to be displayed at runtime),
 * what it means (in case it was not already clear),
 * what to do about it (call it "user action"),

 ... and the mnemonic if relevant. Then we had a tool, shared with 
customers, which would pull out the second (details) and third (action) 
bullet.


I think I mentioned the VM message content handler here before: I wrote 
a work-alike for POSIX systems, which the Wizard compiled on USS.
It needs a bit more work before it can do the multi-bullet thing 
discussed above, but that's in the plan.


I feel your pain, Lionel. I would argue that error messages from any 
subsystem (or application) should be concise (usually a one-liner), but 
*not* end with just return code and reason code. Then further details 
should be readily available, web at least or a quick command, because 
"concise" is just not enough for some customers. (Everybody's different.)


-- R; <><


On 9/18/23 08:06, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:

I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you’re able
to vote:

https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3827

The text is:

Title:
All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
referencing a Messages and Codes manual

Text:
Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command): IDFS00329E
Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code ED07621A. Is
confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user. They are not used
to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last millennium) and
using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and similar, messages.

All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual. The
days of the 1960's and 1970's to


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website:https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github:https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

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Re: AW: Generate a data set with record numbers?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 06:46:58 +, Beate Kawelke wrote:
>
>you could directly run the REXX as in-stream in the JCL: 
>https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=routine-using-irxjcl-execute-in-stream-rexx-exec
> 
Where I read:
When the first non-blank name in the parm data passed to IRXJCL
is either a single x'00' character or a 2 to 8 character name consisting
of x'00' characters, that name is treated as a null-name.

Isn't "either a single ... or a 2 to 8 ..." a needlessly complex way of
saying "1 to 8"?

BTW, the behavior far antedates its documentation and was known
and used by mavens who sussed it from control block descriptions.

-- 
gil

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Re: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[Lance D. Jackson]

Long overdue - thanks Darren.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Darren Evans-Young
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 17:48
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better list
owner.
Life has been busy.

I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM Mainframe
topics.
No discussions of religion, politics, etc.  No name calling, insults, etc.
Respect each other.

Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in being set
to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.

Darren

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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:35:57 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>There's a tradeoff between providing enough detail and cluttering the output. 
>What I'd suggest asking for is message that tell the user all relevant 
>variable, have an understandable summary and show the command to use for more 
>details, e.g., "For more details use the command bpxmtext DEADBEEF."
>
And include a URL for users of terminals that support links.

-- 
gil

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Re: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential

Thank you, Darren

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Roberto Halais
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 5:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

Thank you

On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 6:33 PM Doug Fuerst  wrote:

> Finally. Thanks Darren.
>
> Doug Fuerst
> Principal Consultant
> BK Associates
> 718.921.2620 (O)
> 917.572.7364 (C)
> d...@bkassociates.net
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From "Darren Evans-Young"  To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date 9/17/2023 17:48:07 PM Subject IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines
>
> >First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better
> >list
> owner.
> >Life has been busy.
> >
> >I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
> >So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM
> >Mainframe
> topics.
> >No discussions of religion, politics, etc.  No name calling, insults,
> etc. Respect
> >each other.
> >
> >Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in
> >being
> set
> >to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.
> >
> >Darren
> >
> >-
> >- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO
> >IBM-MAIN
>
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Re: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Seymour J Metz]

"Be careful what you ask for - you might get it."

There's a tradeoff between providing enough detail and cluttering the output. 
What I'd suggest asking for is message that tell the user all relevant 
variable, have an understandable summary and show the command to use for more 
details, e.g., "For more details use the command bpxmtext DEADBEEF."

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Lionel B. Dyck 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 8:06 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Error messages (a rant and an idea)

I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you’re able
to vote:

https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3827

The text is:

Title:
All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
referencing a Messages and Codes manual

Text:
Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command): IDFS00329E
Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code ED07621A. Is
confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user. They are not used
to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last millennium) and
using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and similar, messages.

All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual. The
days of the 1960's and 1970's to


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1U7CtnNv4lLSVWwhIyx4Bj0NNtLvcN1BgavZa7qWquldQFkfi8tlbrNR1S9KbkKKka3IDhNCBtR33tEkYGh5aLfBEzWLa4Ke23BY-UTmHWk3JuFQP1CiRtadKkc7t5ugzJg5Z-SzMlsDVy3KKPMIyq1x87yj-61i5O92rsL4XviqSISO3xN_CfznwqVC_AaOnuuEHUUmMnCXqrgFjSS1AFKfDy7V6jZT4fp0AbGyPkmPFwv0XfjfjnaWLuMxXZSryCtQsFaq6aajRMwE4KjHN2BsTT9ICl00KkN_xi87KTlAVpTXDoEBOkGX3DVOgZwXe3GUS_BTrQeHe6BG5uQ0DhkQIcSlNKCRKl8sebjWbOlCsRsJ26t-1m2Zw9ASO0ikYgUPgOXDxo6iIRTRAsN4uxzJOilf9oomIdEOqukYRS1w/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

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Re: System Symbolic and SET JCL

[Shaffer, Terri]

Nevermind, I answered my own question, all I had to do was pass the WASID 
symbol on my start command.

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Shaffer, Terri
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 8:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: System Symbolic and SET JCL

EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the 
content is safe.


So I am trying to move one of my WAS subsystems from 1 lpar to another.  We had 
setup a WASID (sysname(4:1) variable for the system name (Ie, ACWA/8 etc).

This then gets resolved in setting up the root PATH= variable, so what I would 
like to do is the following:

//BBO9ACR  PROC ENV=W90CELL.W9NODE8.W9AGNT8
// SET WASID = (15:1)   Add something like this?? 
But this doesn't work...
// SET ROOT='/wasv90config/w90cell/w9node'
// SET FOUT='properties/service/logs/applyPTF.out'
// SET FOUT2='properties/service/logs/parmsRec.out'
// SET WSDIR='AppServer'
//*
//* Test that OMVS can successfully launch a shell and return *
//*
//TOMVS   EXEC PGM=BPXBATCH,REGION=0M,
// PARM='SH exit 13'
//STDERR   DD PATH='//',
// PATHOPTS=(OWRONLY,OCREAT,OAPPEND),PATHMODE=(SIRWXU,SIRWXG)
//STDOUT   DD PATH='//',
// PATHOPTS=(OWRONLY,OCREAT,OAPPEND),PATHMODE=(SIRWXU,SIRWXG)

This way I could still pull the 8 in this case and the region would start 
correctly on ACWA

Any ideas how I could handle this?

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

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Re: System Symbolic and SET JCL

[Seymour J Metz]

EXPN? Please show the JCL expansion message.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Shaffer, Terri <017d5f778222-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 8:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: System Symbolic and SET JCL

So I am trying to move one of my WAS subsystems from 1 lpar to another.  We had 
setup a WASID (sysname(4:1) variable for the system name (Ie, ACWA/8 etc).

This then gets resolved in setting up the root PATH= variable, so what I would 
like to do is the following:

//BBO9ACR  PROC ENV=W90CELL.W9NODE8.W9AGNT8
// SET WASID = (15:1)   Add something like this?? 
But this doesn’t work...
// SET ROOT='/wasv90config/w90cell/w9node'
// SET FOUT='properties/service/logs/applyPTF.out'
// SET FOUT2='properties/service/logs/parmsRec.out'
// SET WSDIR='AppServer'
//*
//* Test that OMVS can successfully launch a shell and return *
//*
//TOMVS   EXEC PGM=BPXBATCH,REGION=0M,
// PARM='SH exit 13'
//STDERR   DD PATH='//',
// PATHOPTS=(OWRONLY,OCREAT,OAPPEND),PATHMODE=(SIRWXU,SIRWXG)
//STDOUT   DD PATH='//',
// PATHOPTS=(OWRONLY,OCREAT,OAPPEND),PATHMODE=(SIRWXU,SIRWXG)

This way I could still pull the 8 in this case and the region would start 
correctly on ACWA

Any ideas how I could handle this?

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

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System Symbolic and SET JCL

[Shaffer, Terri]

So I am trying to move one of my WAS subsystems from 1 lpar to another.  We had 
setup a WASID (sysname(4:1) variable for the system name (Ie, ACWA/8 etc).

This then gets resolved in setting up the root PATH= variable, so what I would 
like to do is the following:

//BBO9ACR  PROC ENV=W90CELL.W9NODE8.W9AGNT8
// SET WASID = (15:1)   Add something like this?? 
But this doesn’t work...
// SET ROOT='/wasv90config/w90cell/w9node'
// SET FOUT='properties/service/logs/applyPTF.out'
// SET FOUT2='properties/service/logs/parmsRec.out'
// SET WSDIR='AppServer'
//*
//* Test that OMVS can successfully launch a shell and return *
//*
//TOMVS   EXEC PGM=BPXBATCH,REGION=0M,
// PARM='SH exit 13'
//STDERR   DD PATH='//',
// PATHOPTS=(OWRONLY,OCREAT,OAPPEND),PATHMODE=(SIRWXU,SIRWXG)
//STDOUT   DD PATH='//',
// PATHOPTS=(OWRONLY,OCREAT,OAPPEND),PATHMODE=(SIRWXU,SIRWXG)

This way I could still pull the 8 in this case and the region would start 
correctly on ACWA

Any ideas how I could handle this?

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

 [https://go.aciworldwide.com/rs/030-ROK-804/images/aci-footer.jpg] 

This email message and any attachments may contain confidential, proprietary or 
non-public information. The information is intended solely for the designated 
recipient(s). If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this 
email, please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any review, 
dissemination, use or reliance upon this information by unintended recipients 
is prohibited. Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the author 
personally.

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Error messages (a rant and an idea)

[Lionel B. Dyck]

I submitted this IBM Idea and would appreciate your support if you’re able
to vote:

https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3827

The text is:

Title: 
All error messages for shell tools should be complete and NOT require
referencing a Messages and Codes manual

Text:
Receiving a message like this (example from DSFS dsadm command): IDFS00329E
Could not set creation parameters, return code 126 reason code ED07621A. Is
confusing and meaningless to the average OMVS shell user. They are not used
to finding a messages and codes manual (which is so last millennium) and
using Google/Bing/... is useless in finding this, and similar, messages.

All shell commands that run under OMVS should provide clear, and complete,
messages without requiring the user to find a messages and codes manual. The
days of the 1960's and 1970's to


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

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Re: cascaded FICON - DLM

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 18.09.2023 o 06:39, Jake Anderson pisze:

Hello All

I am just trying to understand if any of you are using DLM replication with
the Cascaded FICON feature?

I am curious to know what piece of hardware is required to implement
cascaded FICON.


There is no special hardware needed. Just CPC, two switches and CU (DLM).
And regular IODF definition.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[John Abell]

Thanks Doug.  It has been annoying to say the least. 

John T. Abell   
Tel:800-295-7608Option 4
President 
International:  1-416-593-5578  Option 4
E-mail:  john.ab...@intnlsoftwareproducts.com
Fax:800-295-7609

International:  1-416-593-5579


International Software Products
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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Doug Fuerst
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 6:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

Finally. Thanks Darren.

Doug Fuerst
Principal Consultant
BK Associates
718.921.2620 (O)
917.572.7364 (C)
d...@bkassociates.net


-- Original Message --
>From "Darren Evans-Young"  To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date 
>9/17/2023 17:48:07 PM Subject IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

>First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better list owner.
>Life has been busy.
>
>I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
>So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM Mainframe 
>topics.
>No discussions of religion, politics, etc.  No name calling, insults, 
>etc. Respect each other.
>
>Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in being 
>set to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.
>
>Darren
>
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>email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: SORT INCLUDE problem

[Jack Zukt]

Hi Kolusu

I tried the JCL that you have sent.
It works, as expected, but maybe I was not quite clear in my last question.
Is there a way to get all the dataset profiles that have two different
groups with the same access using SORT or ICETOOL but without using
JOINKEYS, so that the input file would only needed to be read once, using
SORTIN as the DDNAME?
This is me being curious and trying to use a more efficient solution, if
that would be possible.I could not came up with any kind of SORT statements
to that effect.
Best regards
Jack


On Fri, 15 Sept 2023 at 18:33, Sri h Kolusu  wrote:

> >> Now, my question is, is there a way to do this with only one step and
> reading the input file only once?
>
>
> Jack,
>
> Here is 1 step JCL that would match the STG with CICS records the type
> 0404 records from the input file.  Note that we can additional
> functionality if you need after the match is done.
>
> //STEP0100 EXEC PGM=SORT
> //SYSOUT   DD SYSOUT=*
> //SORTDIAG DD DUMMY
> //SYMNAMES DD *
> ** INPUT TYPE 0404 RECORD LAYOUT **
> IN-RDW,01,04,BI
> DSN,10,44,CH
> GRP,62,08,CH
>STG,C'GPRFSTG'
>   CICS,C'GPRFCICS'
> ACC,71,08,CH
>   ALTER,C'ALTER'
>READ,C'READ'
>
> ** STG REFORMATTED RECORD LAYOUT **
> STG-RDW,01,04,BI
> STG-DSN,*,44,CH
> SKIP,1
> STG-GRP,*,08,CH
> SKIP,1
> STG-ACC,*,08,CH
> SKIP,1
>
> ** CICS REFORMATTED RECORD LAYOUT **
> CICS-RDW,01,04,BI
> CICS-DSN,*,44,CH
> SKIP,1
> CICS-GRP,*,08,CH
> SKIP,1
> CICS-ACC,*,08,CH
> SKIP,1
> /*
> //STG  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=
> //CICS DD DISP=SHR,DSN=
> //SORTOUT  DD SYSOUT=*
> //SYSIN DD *
>   JOINKEYS F1=STG,FIELDS=(STG-DSN,A,STG-ACC,A)
>   JOINKEYS F2=CICS,FIELDS=(CICS-DSN,A,CICS-ACC,A)
>   REFORMAT FIELDS=(F1:STG-DSN)
>   OPTION COPY
> /*
> //JNF1CNTL  DD *
>   OPTION VLSCMP
>   INCLUDE COND=(ACC,EQ,ALTER,AND,GRP,EQ,STG)
>INREC BUILD=(IN-RDW,
> DSN,C'|',
> ACC,C'|',
> GRP,C'|')
> /*
> //JNF2CNTL  DD *
>   OPTION VLSCMP
>   INCLUDE COND=(ACC,EQ,ALTER,AND,GRP,EQ,CICS)
>INREC BUILD=(IN-RDW,
> DSN,C'|',
> ACC,C'|',
> GRP,C'|')
> /*
>
> Thanks,
> Kolusu
> DFSORT Development
> IBM Corporation
>
>
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AW: Generate a data set with record numbers?

[Beate Kawelke]

Hi Michael,

you could directly run the REXX as in-stream in the JCL: 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=routine-using-irxjcl-execute-in-stream-rexx-exec

Best regards,
Beate

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von 
Schmitt, Michael
Gesendet: Freitag, 15. September 2023 22:20
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: [IBM-MAIN] Generate a data set with record numbers?

I want to generate a data set that has the record number on each line, such as:

RECORD 1
RECORD 2
RECORD 3

Or

RECORD 1
RECORD 2
RECORD 3

Perhaps I want to generate 1,000 records. Or 10,000.

The question is, what's the simplest way to do this with a *standard* z/OS 
utility (i.e. that comes with z/OS), or with a standard sort product (e.g. 
DFSORT or SyncSort), where it is all in a self-contained job?

I thought of IEBDG or IEBGENER but I don't see where you can tell it to 
generate a sequence number in the records it is building. Is it there and I'm 
just missing it?


I came up with two solutions:

A. IEBGENER to copy instream REXX into a PDS, then IRXJCL to execute it. The 
REXX exec generates the records.

Or

B. IEBDG to generate a file of N records that just say "RECORD", followed by a 
SORT that uses INREC to modify the record to contain the RECNUM. The sort would 
just copy the records.


Both of these solutions are two steps.

I'm curious if there's a simpler solution that I haven't thought of.

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R: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[Fabio Massimo Ottaviani]

Finally. Thanks a lot
Fabio

___

Fabio Massimo Ottaviani
EPV Technologies Technical Director

Mob. +39 3406168088 - Tel. +39 0686210880

EPV Technologies S.r.l.
Viale Angelico,54 - 00195 Roma
www.epvtech.com



-Messaggio originale-
Da: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Per conto di
Darren Evans-Young
Inviato: domenica 17 settembre 2023 23:48
A: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Oggetto: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better list
owner.
Life has been busy.

I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM Mainframe
topics.
No discussions of religion, politics, etc.  No name calling, insults, etc.
Respect each other.

Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in being set
to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.

Darren

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