On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:41:12 -0500, John McKown wrote:
>
>... Now, do
>we continue the "dataset" vs "data set" debate ...
>
The "Glossary of z/OS terms and abbreviations" has no "dataset" but:
data set.
In z/OS, a named collection of related data records that is stored
and r
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:08:50 -0400, Gord Tomlin wrote:
>
>>> Any time Gil succeeds in getting a z/OS
>>> MVS facility to work with z/OS UNIX files, we'll have to update our doc! ;)
>>>
>> Be specific. What qualifies as a "z/OS MVS facility"? IEBGENER works fine.
>> HLASM works fine. Binder
On 4/26/2017 4:42 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
Was 'USS file' never officially blessed for this purpose?
These days it should be z/OS UNIX file...
--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
---
On 2017-04-27 18:07, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:30:30 -0400, Gord Tomlin wrote:
Any time Gil succeeds in getting a z/OS
MVS facility to work with z/OS UNIX files, we'll have to update our doc! ;)
Be specific. What qualifies as a "z/OS MVS facility"? IEBGENER works fine
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:30:30 -0400, Gord Tomlin wrote:
> Any time Gil succeeds in getting a z/OS
>MVS facility to work with z/OS UNIX files, we'll have to update our doc! ;)
>
Be specific. What qualifies as a "z/OS MVS facility"? IEBGENER works fine.
HLASM works fine. Binder works fine. ISP
I don't know enough about the internals and history. I was preferring MVS UNIX
to z/OS UNIX.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Phil Smith
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Terminology - Dat
On 2017-04-27 16:59, Phil Smith wrote:
"MVS"? While MVS is a component of z/OS, the other one is UNIX System Services. As far as I can
tell, USS (no, let's not argue over that short form) is not MVS, it's USS. Yes, they're well-integrated and
talk to each other and all that, but why say "MVS UN
Frank Swarbrick wrote:
>Personally I think we should call them "MVS data sets" or "MVS files", as
>distinguished from and "MVS Unix files". We still have "MVS JCL", so why
>muddy the waters whenever IBM marketing decides to change the name of the
>"operating system" again?
"MVS"? While MVS is
on's thoughts...
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Tony Harminc
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 6:53 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Terminology - Datasets
On 26 April 2017 at 20:27, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-req
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:57:38 +0300, Maxim Bochagov wrote:
>Gil, looks like we are talking about the same but from different
>towers. My note about DSvsFile touches only DASDies (exactly
>harddisks) devices. Of course, if we mean magnetic tapes, 80-column
>decks, paper tapes, etc. we can say all da
Gil, looks like we are talking about the same but from different
towers. My note about DSvsFile touches only DASDies (exactly
harddisks) devices. Of course, if we mean magnetic tapes, 80-column
decks, paper tapes, etc. we can say all data as file, dataset or, may
be, set of data, as you want. The o
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 15:53:21 +0300, Maxim Bochagov wrote:
>> Typically a "dataset" is MVS - z/OS, while a "file" is UNIX.
>
>Please do not forget about the z/VM (CMS minidisk, SFS). So, we will
>use this sentence as
>Typically a "dataset" is MVS - z/OS, while a "file" is UNIX or z/VM.
>
>Anyway, t
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 8:30 AM, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 08:53:34 -0400, Kurt Quackenbush wrote:
> >
> >If only we in SMP/E had that kind of foresight (what, 20+ years ago?) we
> >would not have used "HFS" as an element type. O
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 08:53:34 -0400, Kurt Quackenbush wrote:
>
>If only we in SMP/E had that kind of foresight (what, 20+ years ago?) we
>would not have used "HFS" as an element type. Of course this goes
>beyond documentation, so I suspect we'll be stuck with ++HFS for the
>foreseeable future.
>
T
e Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Porowski, Kenneth
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:39 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Terminology - Datasets
>
> From a z/OS - Mainframe perspective
>
> You have the UNIX filesystem with vari
On 4/26/2017 7:22 PM, Tony Harminc wrote:
While we're on this... I discourage people here from documenting things
like "specify the name of a zFS file". Who knows how long zFS will be
around? HFS seems to be effectively dead. Maybe in a couple of years a
great new QFS or something will be the UN
> Now, do we continue the "dataset" vs "data set" debate to "filesystem" vs
> "file system"? Personally, I vote for the smushedupword.
I second that. But in fact, I have adapted to whatever is being used in the
current shop. It has changed over the decades back and forth. Dataset is
popular at
m
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Tony Harminc
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 4:23 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: Terminology - Datasets
>
> On 26 Apri
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 22:29:51 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:
>>
>> I would think people would be smart enough to say "well it worked with
>> PDSE's, it will probably work with the new PDSX's" just as how when I read
>> "specify the name of an HFS file" I know that a zFS file will probably work
>> as wel
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 22:04:18 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:
>
>> SVC 99, I'd be less certain [that allocation of a socket to a DDNAME is
>> unsupported]:
>> o A socket can have a descriptor.
>> o DYNALLOC can allocate to PATH('/dev/fd/'descriptor). I've done this
>> with unnamed pipes created afte
On 26 April 2017 at 19:35, Charles Mills wrote:
> I mean, doesn't everything in vendor documentation have the same problem?
> If I say "specify the name of a PDS(E) member" isn't there a risk that IBM
> comes out someday with PDSX? Even so, I think the quote is clearer than if
> we wrote "specify
On 26 April 2017 at 21:15, Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-
requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >Not explicitly. But I can't imagine a product the customer knows is going
> >to run as a z/OS started task with significant performance requirements is
> >going to decide to put a transaction-cont
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
> Hmmm. Interesting. Not sure I agree, but I see your logic.
>
> I mean, doesn't everything in vendor documentation have the same problem?
> If I say "specify the name of a PDS(E) member" isn't there a risk that IBM
> comes out someday with PD
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:53:14 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:
>
>> Is that intended to exclude NFS files (and possibly others) which
>> don't support zFS extended attributes? (Don't know about TFS.)
>
>Not explicitly. But I can't imagine a product the customer knows is going
>to run as a z/OS started ta
On 26 April 2017 at 20:27, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> But what happens when "z/OS" goes the way of "OS/390" and "MVS 5.2"?
>
Yeah, that happens too. But it's a pretty easy context-free change to make,
and of course we've had to do it. Not that custom
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 19:01:12 -0500, Walt Farrell wrote:
>
>First, zFS is but one kind of file system that can contain UNIX files. Before
>it we had HFS file systems, and we still (I think) have TFS file systems. They
>all contain UNIX files, or possibly z/OS UNIX files if you must.
>
But what ha
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 09:32:35 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>In our documentation we say datasets or legacy MVS datasets; and files or zFS
>files.
>
"zFS files" is, in my opinion, incorrect terminology and risks confusion.
First, zFS is but one kind of file system that can contain UNIX files. Bef
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 4:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Terminology - Datasets
On 26 April 20
ainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 4:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Terminology - Datasets
On 26 April 2017 at 12:35, Charles Mills wrote:
> It matters in documentation. If we were to document the
On 26 April 2017 at 12:35, Charles Mills wrote:
> It matters in documentation. If we were to document the FOO parameter as
> "specify the name of a file" that would leave you wondering what we meant,
> unless other context made it clear. We say "specify the name of an MVS
> dataset" or "specify t
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:02:07 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:
>I don't understand IBM's insistence on "data set", which is a generic
>phrase equivalent to "set of data". "Dataset" has been in use for decades
>to mean a collection of records organized in particular ways and stored on
>a computer system,
Steve Smith wrote:
>I don't understand IBM's insistence on "data set", which is a generic
>phrase equivalent to "set of data". "Dataset" has been in use for decades
>to mean a collection of records organized in particular ways and stored on
>a computer system, particularly on our architecture.
I
Java is now "legacy" as well. It's over 20 years old, after all!
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 10:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Terminology - Datasets
-Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Phil Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 1:12 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Terminology - Datasets
>
> Skip wrote:
> > Since the ter
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Phil Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 1:12 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Terminology - Datasets
>
> Skip wrote:
> > Since the term 'data set' (is it
baugh, Robert E
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 2:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Terminology - Datasets
It is two words at CA as well.
Bob Longabaugh
CA Technologies
Storage Management
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
: Terminology - Datasets
Skip wrote:
> Since the term 'data set' (is it one or two words?) is pretty much confined
> to mainframe...
Since you asked: IBM created the term, and in IBM-land it's two words. I have
an autocorrect set so I don't think
jesse1.robin...@sce.com (Jesse 1 Robinson) writes:
> I have a rather jaundiced view. Every time the word 'legacy' rings, an
> angel in heaven is entitled to use the word 'weenie-ware' one more
> time.
>
> Since the term 'data set' (is it one or two words?) is pretty much
> confined to mainframe, 'f
Skip wrote:
> Since the term 'data set' (is it one or two words?) is pretty much confined
> to mainframe...
Since you asked: IBM created the term, and in IBM-land it's two words. I have
an autocorrect set so I don't think about it most of the time.
--
On 26 April 2017 at 13:06, J R wrote:
When I first heard the term "dataset",it meant "modem".
>
By the same token, for many years "file" meant "disk drive" to CEs and
pretty much anyone around the data centre who wasn't a programmer.
Tony H.
When I first heard the term "dataset",
it meant "modem".
Sent from my iPhone
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On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 08:55:33 -0700, Lizette Koehler wrote:
>
>I do not use legacy in any discussion. Tends to make readers think the
>Mainframe is Dead. ;-D
>
No.
Our system of government is the legacy of the Founding Fathers.
General Relativity is the legacy of Albert Einstein.
It's hardly p
t; or some combination thereof.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 9:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Terminology - Datasets
I think that it's often
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 08:55:33 -0700, Lizette Koehler wrote:
>One way I look at them
>
>Unix Files that live in MVS zFS or HFS datasets are Unix Files
>
>Everything else not UNIX is a dataset on z/OS. Though file is used
>interchangeably for MVS dataset.
>
Some components of z/OS use "file" (not
: Re: Terminology - Datasets
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Porowski, Kenneth
wrote:
> From a z/OS - Mainframe perspective
>
> You have the UNIX filesystem with various types of files in it.
>
> You have the "classic" Mainframe datasets (sequential, PDS, VSAM,
> et
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Jesse 1 Robinson
wrote:
> I have a rather jaundiced view. Every time the word 'legacy' rings, an
> angel in heaven is entitled to use the word 'weenie-ware' one more time.
>
> Since the term 'data set' (is it one or two words?) is pretty much
> confined to mainfr
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of John McKown
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Terminology - Datasets
On Wed, Apr 2
ularly relevant.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Porowski, Kenneth
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Terminology - Datasets
>From a z/OS - Mainframe perspective
You have t
Typically a "dataset" is MVS - z/OS, while a "file" is UNIX.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Porowski, Kenneth
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Terminolo
M-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Porowski, Kenneth
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:39 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Terminology - Datasets
>
> From a z/OS - Mainframe perspective
>
> You have the UNIX filesystem with various types of files in
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Porowski, Kenneth
wrote:
> From a z/OS - Mainframe perspective
>
> You have the UNIX filesystem with various types of files in it.
>
> You have the "classic" Mainframe datasets (sequential, PDS, VSAM, etc.)
>
> To differentiate the "classic" datasets from the UN
From a z/OS - Mainframe perspective
You have the UNIX filesystem with various types of files in it.
You have the "classic" Mainframe datasets (sequential, PDS, VSAM, etc.)
To differentiate the "classic" datasets from the UNIX filesystem/files what is
the correct/preferred terminology for the "
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