Re: New Mainframe Community

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2020-06-26 15:21, Gord Tomlin wrote:

On 2020-06-26 12:57, Henri Kuiper wrote:
here’s a little “why” for the existence of the thing 
:https://zdevops.tumblr.com/post/620908065704853504/mainframe-community-mattermost 



I read the above, and then headed over to see https://mainframe.community/

I see that the privacy policy and terms are the default ones supplied by 
Mattermost. Has this site set up its own privacy policy and terms, or is 
it relying on the defaults provided by Mattermost? I have to ask, 
because there isn't much to see without creating an account and logging in.


I took the next step and joined this new community to see what all the 
fuss here was all about. I don't like to either boost or trash something 
that I know nothing about.


I was already familiar with Mattermost. For those who aren't, it's an 
open source package that looks and acts very much like Slack did six 
months ago. So if you know Slack, you pretty much know Mattermost.


Here's what I found, in no particular order:
- There are no ads.
- There is no sign of people selling answers
  (for clarity, the comments about those two items were about
  another site).
- I've seen no sign of pedantry.
- I haven't seen topics wander off into hardware nostalgia or, as
  in this very topic, discussions of quote marks and character sets.
- I haven't seen a lot of the key IBMers who make major contributions
  here.
- The new site appears to be somewhat more collaborative discussion, as
  opposed to Q
- I haven't seen anyone asking questions without supplying the
  information that someone would need to answer the questions.
- It's not a huge population at this point (as I write this, the
  Mattermost equivalent of Slack's #general channel  has 119 members).
- The topics discussed seem to be more "new workload" and less "legacy".
- It's a little chaotic, because the Slack/Mattermost chat-oriented
  paradigm does not really lend itself to threaded conversations.
  When it gets a lot of users, it's likely to feel a lot like the Zowe
  Slack site.
- It's just different from IBM-MAIN. As far as I can tell, it's not
  trying to replace IBM-MAIN (and if it was, the choice of a chat tool
  rather than a forum tool would have been a mistake).

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Seymour J Metz]

> I'll go further and advance the modest proposal that a compiler that supports 
> UTF-8
> should treat non-ASCII characters as honorary alphabetic. 

I would support a new ANSI standard (way overdue anyway) for PL/I that allowed 
any Unicode alphabetic character in identifiers, but I am leery about changing 
the rules for the existing language level. At a minimum, any compiler 
supporting extended identifiers should have an option for enforcing strict 
compliance with the current syntax.

> 507 $ ls -alrt

?

I understand about touch not getting a syntax error, but what is the ls 
supposedf to be telling?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 00:21:08 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>> Should they turn off their Hebrew or Chinese names too?
>
>Yes, for variables names in code samples where the language doesn't allow them.
>Consider these two lines in a PL/I program for a compiler that supports 
>Unicode.
>The first is legitimate; the second is not.
>
>foo = bar /* פּלוני Good */;
>foo = פּלוני /* Bad! */;
>
I'll go further and advance the modest proposal that a compiler that supports 
UTF-8
should treat non-ASCII characters as honorary alphabetic.  So your "Bad!" 
example
would be Good.  Bash on MacOS and Linux goes partway there:
506 $ touch פּלוני
507 $ ls -alrt
total 0
drwxr-xr-x  7 paulgilm  wheel  224 Jun 26 19:06 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 paulgilm  wheel0 Jun 26 19:06 פּלוני
drwxr-xr-x  3 paulgilm  wheel   96 Jun 26 19:06 .
508 $
>...
>> "Dumb" quotes are an artifact of typewriters and 6- or 7-bit character sets.
>
>There's nothing smart about using invalid syntax in code samples, and even
>where it's only a style issue there are millennials who don't agree with you.
>
OTOH, I laud modern (non-Bourne) shells for providing as an alternative
for symmetrical command substitution "` list `" the asymmetrical yet
ASCII "$( list )".  The latter can be nested without a nightmare of escapes.

-- gil

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Wayne Bickerdike]

I Manifest Hostile Opinions

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 1:05 PM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 22:28:02 -0400, Doug wrote:
>
> >We currently have a Strong Supportive group. Opinions are freely given
> and taken period. Banter and brainstorming lead to ideas that when given
> the space to grow are fortuitous for all.
> >Continue as we have and we will still be a great group!
> >Participants in the ‘new community’ are trying to communicate at and in
> their comfort zone.
> >I for one do not fault them for that but do fear they will have to
> reinvent years of the work those of us already know.
> >
> Several experts from IBM are frequent and valuable contributors to
> IBM-MAIN.  Does a similar resource exist for https://mainframe.community/
> ?
>
> -- gil
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 22:28:02 -0400, Doug wrote:

>We currently have a Strong Supportive group. Opinions are freely given and 
>taken period. Banter and brainstorming lead to ideas that when given the space 
>to grow are fortuitous for all.
>Continue as we have and we will still be a great group! 
>Participants in the ‘new community’ are trying to communicate at and in their 
>comfort zone.
>I for one do not fault them for that but do fear they will have to reinvent 
>years of the work those of us already know.
> 
Several experts from IBM are frequent and valuable contributors to
IBM-MAIN.  Does a similar resource exist for https://mainframe.community/
?

-- gil

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Doug]

We currently have a Strong Supportive group. Opinions are freely given and 
taken period. Banter and brainstorming lead to ideas that when given the space 
to grow are fortuitous for all.
Continue as we have and we will still be a great group! 
Participants in the ‘new community’ are trying to communicate at and in their 
comfort zone.
I for one do not fault them for that but do fear they will have to reinvent 
years of the work those of us already know.

Ah yes
When you can change the system, you have become the system.

My 2 cents

Have a wonderful weekend!
Best Regards, Doug
.

On Jun 26, 2020, at 17:34, Phil Smith III  wrote:

Of course Charles is correct-I did not mean to imply that I thought IBM-MAIN 
was the zenith of information sharing. It's still on LISTSERV, which is 
near to my heart as a long-time VMer, but whose day has largely come and 
gone, due to the issues Charles mentions (and more).



Now, if someone wanted to migrate IBM-MAIN to (say) groups.io, that might be 
good; OTOH, who knows whether groups.io will persist. There's risk in moving 
and then losing that platform.



Oh for the good old days, when LISTSERV was the only real choice, so we were 
happy to have it!



...phsiii 


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 00:21:08 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>> Should they turn off their Hebrew or Chinese names too? 
>
>Yes, for variables names in code samples where the language doesn't allow 
>them. 
>Consider these two lines in a PL/I program for a compiler that supports 
>Unicode. 
>The first is legitimate; the second is not.
>
>foo = bar /* פּלוני Good */;
>foo = פּלוני /* Bad! */;
>
I'll go further and advance the modest proposal that a compiler that supports 
UTF-8
should treat non-ASCII characters as honorary alphabetic.  So your "Bad!" 
example
would be Good.  Bash on MacOS and Linux goes partway there:
506 $ touch פּלוני
507 $ ls -alrt
total 0
drwxr-xr-x  7 paulgilm  wheel  224 Jun 26 19:06 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 paulgilm  wheel0 Jun 26 19:06 פּלוני
drwxr-xr-x  3 paulgilm  wheel   96 Jun 26 19:06 .
508 $ 
>...
>> "Dumb" quotes are an artifact of typewriters and 6- or 7-bit character sets.
>
>There's nothing smart about using invalid syntax in code samples, and even 
>where it's only a style issue there are millennials who don't agree with you.
>
OTOH, I laud modern (non-Bourne) shells for providing as an alternative
for symmetrical command substitution "` list `" the asymmetrical yet
ASCII "$( list )".  The latter can be nested without a nightmare of escapes.

-- gil

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Seymour J Metz]

> Why? Because "pure" ASCII is ordained somewhere? 

Stop with the straw dummies. Rebut arguments that somebody actually made and 
people will take you more seriously.

> Should they turn off their Hebrew or Chinese names too? 

Yes, for variables names in code samples where the language doesn't allow them. 
Consider these two lines in a PL/I program for a compiler that supports 
Unicode. The first is legitimate; the second is not.

foo = bar /* פּלוני Good */;
foo = פּלוני /* Bad! */;

> Unicode rulz, dude! 

Even if that were true it wouldn't justify using the *WRONG* Unicode code point.

> Readability rulz!

No. Work with a tech writer who turns your broken English into polished prose 
that no longer matches the product and you'll understand why.

> "Dumb" quotes are an artifact of typewriters and 6- or 7-bit character sets.

There's nothing smart about using invalid syntax in code samples, and even 
where it's only a style issue there are millennials who don't agree with you.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 6:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

+1 on redundant replies.

> wish is that the WWW interface supported composing in a
> monospaced font

What's the difference? It shows up for the recipient in whatever font they 
choose, typically monospaced.

> that submitters turn off "smart" quotes

Why? Because "pure" ASCII is ordained somewhere? Should they turn off their 
Hebrew or Chinese names too? Unicode rulz, dude! Readability rulz! I agree -- 
it looks better that way. "Dumb" quotes are an artifact of typewriters and 6- 
or 7-bit character sets. Real type has used "smart" quotes for centuries.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:46:06 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>There *are* IMHO some problems with IBMMAIN but it is not clear to me that
>they are significant enough to worry about nor that some new forum would
>necessarily be better overall.
>
>- Searchability. The archives leave a lot to be desired in this regard IMHO.
>- Topic drift. There is something of tendency for many threads here to drift
>into hardware nostalgia, sometimes with the effect of obscuring the original
>question. There are often answers here from people who did not read the
>original question.
>
Conversely, redundant replies from people who read only the original
question which has already been sufficiently answered.  I can wish for
the ancient USENET etiquette of replying directly to originator who is
responsible for following up with a summary.

>A better "threaded" interface would help prevent this.
>
Examples:

http://secure-web.cisco.com/1DIq6_IG177X7FZE0F-KdEbgeUN8XBYWxs3iRKawJ2FuusQLNkPR94GxdABapLs8XC1pLpNw6ojRslZKiqgcyYDH3A-GzAtubq_wY0jgCs7AiN4k8ASYDYetTNXvkvsaKXri1ttfbwptiGu1sXNA7ksgxirXahW4Le2TL3f4OeXjQy9gHZHANGGjDd0CGI347uHexXOZVfEc4Tf6m9AR69KlAFg6HlFtQZ3u29Iy0TwcoQUMC2Axgt4O7GYqFD7RjPKK4bkwaVIj2yh8BOP_mudi6oV1xV_G1rfMP6O-lmHTL9cWZ8cls6QV6s5KcwdhAMcv0G1wJSZ4rS6d0z0Y71gbTihQibz2MhIBEMRoqzD_7NRrRBan5V3wJihzHG0QtQx9dRvYTbKivHSj4ImG9ofBkBvk1_rEl5OKrkmEVu_c8-3RLvIVVdEn8-zJKEm5-/http%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.org%2Fpipermail%2Ftz%2F2020-January%2Fthread.html

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1gU3Y9dWpjXR4lEJiZN6BwxLExLnFsMb3yMudDH8Ct1SM60Ug7HXC_a7RaWUY12rRs203KlvmXpRkKo6YRsMuMBsNzo5-BRbuAqtW3IAUZkcWYYg_Mz0KdhfIwsBvQ1c1ITtZQR11EnHnrecZdboOxyv7390IkAWhk7ir39rpxVrQFaN-Ae2cE1NTDPITJS-JRSQIsoHlQFMcrEr0XJHDPFAAGjbs-4LCFrMliq4aLlfKllTQWeD_Rgh5y_rVJVzC2E7iAHBrj8AXtyMIxERzz1mS8uxWyFItLJCQ7DFdryh1mkZGoU_dmMmbEaZoZXBbcwRVCSptKGw2_AKQrMzTcHHUl6QGtJdvm7zukxHATyBj2RVGDxhI3m5jHEqf9GajYIIZd58pfBsqz_bgCABSZG5X38QrPpF_P3HLRLyk1AYAMMQhT6EIpbvHe9mV1rYX-Bb2kQYTBN-AmEeVxty41A/https%3A%2F%2Fcurl.haxx.se%2Fmail%2Farchive-2020-01%2F
C'mon, LISTSERV.

>- Lack of formatting. Yeah, I know a lot of old-timers love plain text (let
>the flames begin!) but most modern fora have the ability to set off code
>examples at the very least. I think that would be useful here.
>
To that end, my simplest wish is that the WWW interface supported
composing in a monospaced font.
C'mon, LISTSERV.

And, of course, that submitters turn off "smart" quotes.  Such problems
exist even in IBM Reference Manuals.  I went to RCF on one such and
got the reply that it looks better that way.

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Seymour J Metz]

> underscored blanks nearly vanished

Wouldn't bolding each underscore be a better solution?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 7:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 16:06:56 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>No, I know of no computer language that treats "smart" quotes as equivalent to 
>"dumb" quotes. Did not know you were referring to code samples. You meant 
>smart quotes in code samples in IBM manuals? That is just flat out wrong, 
>wrong, wrong. It's just as wrong as if they used ENQUEUE rather than ENQ in an 
>example -- it looks better too. The point of code samples is not to "look 
>good."
>
OK.  I chiseled a bit.  IIRC more precisely, a manual used something
like __BPX__SHAREAS rather than _BPX_SHAREAS because the
underscored blanks nearly vanished in the proportional font used
in the manual. It was a deliberate decision by the writer, not
autocorrection by the tool.  However nice it appeared in the .pdf
it failed when I pasted it into a script.

-- gil

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 16:06:56 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>No, I know of no computer language that treats "smart" quotes as equivalent to 
>"dumb" quotes. Did not know you were referring to code samples. You meant 
>smart quotes in code samples in IBM manuals? That is just flat out wrong, 
>wrong, wrong. It's just as wrong as if they used ENQUEUE rather than ENQ in an 
>example -- it looks better too. The point of code samples is not to "look 
>good."
>
OK.  I chiseled a bit.  IIRC more precisely, a manual used something
like __BPX__SHAREAS rather than _BPX_SHAREAS because the
underscored blanks nearly vanished in the proportional font used
in the manual. It was a deliberate decision by the writer, not
autocorrection by the tool.  However nice it appeared in the .pdf
it failed when I pasted it into a script.

-- gil

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Charles Mills]

No, I know of no computer language that treats "smart" quotes as equivalent to 
"dumb" quotes. Did not know you were referring to code samples. You meant smart 
quotes in code samples in IBM manuals? That is just flat out wrong, wrong, 
wrong. It's just as wrong as if they used ENQUEUE rather than ENQ in an example 
-- it looks better too. The point of code samples is not to "look good."

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 3:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 15:33:36 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>+1 on redundant replies.
>
>> wish is that the WWW interface supported composing in a 
>> monospaced font
>
>What's the difference? It shows up for the recipient in whatever font they 
>choose, typically monospaced.
> 
But I'm the composer.  LISTSERV WWW has no monospace option.
I'd like to see vertical alignment in code samples that I type or paste.

>> that submitters turn off "smart" quotes
>
>Why? Because "pure" ASCII is ordained somewhere? Should they turn off their 
>Hebrew or Chinese names too? Unicode rulz, dude! Readability rulz! I agree -- 
>it looks better that way. "Dumb" quotes are an artifact of typewriters and 6- 
>or 7-bit character sets. Real type has used "smart" quotes for centuries.
> 
For code samples.  Do compilers nowadays understand "smart" quotes?
HLASM, for one, doesn't.

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 15:33:36 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>+1 on redundant replies.
>
>> wish is that the WWW interface supported composing in a 
>> monospaced font
>
>What's the difference? It shows up for the recipient in whatever font they 
>choose, typically monospaced.
> 
But I'm the composer.  LISTSERV WWW has no monospace option.
I'd like to see vertical alignment in code samples that I type or paste.

>> that submitters turn off "smart" quotes
>
>Why? Because "pure" ASCII is ordained somewhere? Should they turn off their 
>Hebrew or Chinese names too? Unicode rulz, dude! Readability rulz! I agree -- 
>it looks better that way. "Dumb" quotes are an artifact of typewriters and 6- 
>or 7-bit character sets. Real type has used "smart" quotes for centuries.
> 
For code samples.  Do compilers nowadays understand "smart" quotes?
HLASM, for one, doesn't.

-- gil

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Charles Mills]

+1 on redundant replies.

> wish is that the WWW interface supported composing in a 
> monospaced font

What's the difference? It shows up for the recipient in whatever font they 
choose, typically monospaced.

> that submitters turn off "smart" quotes

Why? Because "pure" ASCII is ordained somewhere? Should they turn off their 
Hebrew or Chinese names too? Unicode rulz, dude! Readability rulz! I agree -- 
it looks better that way. "Dumb" quotes are an artifact of typewriters and 6- 
or 7-bit character sets. Real type has used "smart" quotes for centuries.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:46:06 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>There *are* IMHO some problems with IBMMAIN but it is not clear to me that
>they are significant enough to worry about nor that some new forum would
>necessarily be better overall.
>
>- Searchability. The archives leave a lot to be desired in this regard IMHO.
>- Topic drift. There is something of tendency for many threads here to drift
>into hardware nostalgia, sometimes with the effect of obscuring the original
>question. There are often answers here from people who did not read the
>original question. 
>
Conversely, redundant replies from people who read only the original
question which has already been sufficiently answered.  I can wish for
the ancient USENET etiquette of replying directly to originator who is
responsible for following up with a summary.

>A better "threaded" interface would help prevent this.
>
Examples:
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2020-January/thread.html
https://curl.haxx.se/mail/archive-2020-01/
C'mon, LISTSERV.

>- Lack of formatting. Yeah, I know a lot of old-timers love plain text (let
>the flames begin!) but most modern fora have the ability to set off code
>examples at the very least. I think that would be useful here.
>
To that end, my simplest wish is that the WWW interface supported
composing in a monospaced font.
C'mon, LISTSERV.

And, of course, that submitters turn off "smart" quotes.  Such problems
exist even in IBM Reference Manuals.  I went to RCF on one such and
got the reply that it looks better that way.

--
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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Phil Smith III]

Of course Charles is correct-I did not mean to imply that I thought IBM-MAIN 
was the zenith of information sharing. It's still on LISTSERV, which is 
near to my heart as a long-time VMer, but whose day has largely come and 
gone, due to the issues Charles mentions (and more).

 

Now, if someone wanted to migrate IBM-MAIN to (say) groups.io, that might be 
good; OTOH, who knows whether groups.io will persist. There's risk in moving 
and then losing that platform.

 

Oh for the good old days, when LISTSERV was the only real choice, so we were 
happy to have it!

 

...phsiii 


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:46:06 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>There *are* IMHO some problems with IBMMAIN but it is not clear to me that
>they are significant enough to worry about nor that some new forum would
>necessarily be better overall.
>
>- Searchability. The archives leave a lot to be desired in this regard IMHO.
>- Topic drift. There is something of tendency for many threads here to drift
>into hardware nostalgia, sometimes with the effect of obscuring the original
>question. There are often answers here from people who did not read the
>original question. 
>
Conversely, redundant replies from people who read only the original
question which has already been sufficiently answered.  I can wish for
the ancient USENET etiquette of replying directly to originator who is
responsible for following up with a summary.

>A better "threaded" interface would help prevent this.
>
Examples:
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2020-January/thread.html
https://curl.haxx.se/mail/archive-2020-01/
C'mon, LISTSERV.

>- Lack of formatting. Yeah, I know a lot of old-timers love plain text (let
>the flames begin!) but most modern fora have the ability to set off code
>examples at the very least. I think that would be useful here.
>
To that end, my simplest wish is that the WWW interface supported
composing in a monospaced font.
C'mon, LISTSERV.

And, of course, that submitters turn off "smart" quotes.  Such problems
exist even in IBM Reference Manuals.  I went to RCF on one such and
got the reply that it looks better that way.

>Phil is of course right: whether you are inventing a forum or a software
>product, it is good to start from a user problem and proceed from there to a
>solution. Solutions in search of a problem lead to the dread situation of
>"educating the market."

-- gil

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Seymour J Metz]

Try google or google is trying? Every time they improve google it gets harder 
to use.

A lot of times I get better results using Wikipedia as a search engine than I 
get from google,  and the thing that I depended on most, the Usenet archive 
they took over from DejaNews, they've destroyed.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Steve Smith [sasd...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Inscrutable mostly harmless offal.

btw, there's this new thing, Google.  It's free to try.

sas

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Charles Mills]

There *are* IMHO some problems with IBMMAIN but it is not clear to me that
they are significant enough to worry about nor that some new forum would
necessarily be better overall.

- Searchability. The archives leave a lot to be desired in this regard IMHO.
- Topic drift. There is something of tendency for many threads here to drift
into hardware nostalgia, sometimes with the effect of obscuring the original
question. There are often answers here from people who did not read the
original question. A better "threaded" interface would help prevent this.
- Lack of formatting. Yeah, I know a lot of old-timers love plain text (let
the flames begin!) but most modern fora have the ability to set off code
examples at the very least. I think that would be useful here.

Phil is of course right: whether you are inventing a forum or a software
product, it is good to start from a user problem and proceed from there to a
solution. Solutions in search of a problem lead to the dread situation of
"educating the market."

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Phil Smith III
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Henri Kuiper wrote:

>Wow. What a lot of pushback.

Well, nobody has offered any problem that this new forum is going to solve.
Nor does that web page you cite: it says "I did this technically interesting
thing", but that isn't solving a *problem*. That's my objection: we have a
solution to the problem that works. If there's a better one, great; but
there have, as has been noted, been several other fora created, and since
none of them solved a problem that IBM-MAIN had, they're pretty well all
dead.

That's key both for products and open source offerings: there needs to be an
actual problem that gets solved. Mattermost/MatterMost (it's unclear from
that page which is the actual name) looks like yet another Teams/Lync/Fuze,
and that's a real problem that companies have-but IBM-MAIN does not.

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Phil Smith III]

Henri Kuiper wrote:

>Wow. What a lot of pushback.

 

Well, nobody has offered any problem that this new forum is going to solve. Nor 
does that web page you cite: it says "I did this technically interesting 
thing", but that isn't solving a *problem*. That's my objection: we have a 
solution to the problem that works. If there's a better one, great; but there 
have, as has been noted, been several other fora created, and since none of 
them solved a problem that IBM-MAIN had, they're pretty well all dead.

 

That's key both for products and open source offerings: there needs to be an 
actual problem that gets solved. Mattermost/MatterMost (it's unclear from that 
page which is the actual name) looks like yet another Teams/Lync/Fuze, and 
that's a real problem that companies have-but IBM-MAIN does not.

 

For those of us who have been using email for 40+ years, email is a good 
solution for this kind of information. In fact, Teams (to pick one) fails, for 
me at least, because it's too ephemeral: I cannot easily search an archive of 
information that has appeared in Teams and extract valuable tidbits. Irritating.

 

Old = good is foolish; so is new = good.

 

...phsiii 


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Tony Harminc]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 12:57, Henri Kuiper  wrote:
>
> Wow. What a lot of pushback.
>
> This is (IMHO) precisely what’s wrong with the (generic average)  mainframe 
> community. New is bad.  Different is bad.

No one has said anything remotely like that.

> Dudes (m/f) : it’s not the 80s anymore.
>
> That being said : here’s a little “why” for the existence of the thing : 
> https://zdevops.tumblr.com/post/620908065704853504/mainframe-community-mattermost

OK - looks cool. But why is it good because it's posted on a site that
evidently exists not to make cool new stuff public, but to monetize
it? How does the existence of something nifty on it justify such a
site? Why not post nifty stuff right here on IBM-MAIN?

> That being said I’d say “traditional”  peeps like some of the reactions I 
> read here should probably not even try to see what it is.

Well look who has the attitude now...

> There’s no punch cards. No bus But an easy, modern, new (young) blood 
> friendly environment where about 100 peeps are having some fun discussing 
> mainframe things.

Seriously...? As opposed to a mailing list that must obviously be
difficult, old-fashioned, unfriendly to youth?

> No hard feelings.

You're sure...?

Tony H.

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2020-06-26 12:57, Henri Kuiper wrote:

here’s a little “why” for the existence of the thing 
:https://zdevops.tumblr.com/post/620908065704853504/mainframe-community-mattermost


I read the above, and then headed over to see https://mainframe.community/

I see that the privacy policy and terms are the default ones supplied by 
Mattermost. Has this site set up its own privacy policy and terms, or is 
it relying on the defaults provided by Mattermost? I have to ask, 
because there isn't much to see without creating an account and logging in.


Thanks!

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Steve Smith]

Inscrutable mostly harmless offal.

btw, there's this new thing, Google.  It's free to try.

sas

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Lionel B Dyck]

IMHO - In My Humble Opinion

IMNSHO - In My Not So Humble Opinion




Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
McCabe, Ron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

I know this is off topic but what does IMHO stand for?

Thanks,
Ron McCabe
Manager of Mainframe/Midrange Systems
Mutual of Enumclaw

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Henri Kuiper
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

CAUTION: This email is from an external address. Please be careful of links and 
attachments.


I was referring to the generic average. Not to anything anyone wrote here.

I already regret replying.

/EOT


> On 26 Jun 2020, at 19:30, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> Not all change is progress, nor does an ad hominem argument bolster your 
> case. Neither does constructing straw dummies. "New is bad.  Different is 
> bad." is a free construct of your imagination, unrelated to anything that 
> anybody here wrote.
>
> Are their objections valid? I don't know, but misrepresenting them won't 
> convince anybody that they're wrong.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.g
> mu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7Crmccabe%40MUTUALOFENUMCLAW.COM%7Ca
> 1e943177ffc4f2d25da08d819fd702e%7C5a381f7dcc3d4a93b2cbd2fd072e535a%7C1
> %7C0%7C637287923585463930sdata=SjLcLbjqGR3mfHqipZQ1m9cCXLbjpal983
> ru177s4ow%3Dreserved=0
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on 
> behalf of Henri Kuiper [henrikui...@zdevops.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:57 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>
> Wow. What a lot of pushback.
>
> This is (IMHO) precisely what’s wrong with the (generic average)  mainframe 
> community. New is bad.  Different is bad.
>
> Dudes (m/f) : it’s not the 80s anymore.
>
> That being said : here’s a little “why” for the existence of the thing
> :
> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecu
> re-web.cisco.com%2F1XvN1_V6ok1sJNlFaq7Z343XlW_wRn1pLUP1SgDYhckTcNv1FTR
> NKBGu8BhJjyQFtzWCCdxOEkvQnVbzjpkqyIRWBMVMKO5NSI-_UQmV1T4GP85WyNx0I4tfX
> KY1GyyBAr7-13umt61eWdwZnJ4bmDSMkvpmk0_byLSjeOa645E40X2BFl2gbfYLVB5tGPd
> 17bav80BvBMpmwbZflaSxkwRKCxNL5XcRfUQPMhpXZWZmUKY1zXMYL7_BESm8M2UUp15ds
> c7B9m8yYh98BuxkEmTbrJsw_AtpWxwk9--8dv2iecdL4nxNDhXzCt6cDHOu1q85TVJ2MqE
> pSo446EYbJAKC4r5vEuKvLDlI1DJ2XnTNZopVXqx9eofDzOzd8aDo1iWe_YjyhkhxGMZSC
> 3vWLVdzgWUvbc1ciqLqZXVnjecO_3YH03XnqCv8Bk5um6Tm4%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252
> Fzdevops.tumblr.com%252Fpost%252F620908065704853504%252Fmainframe-comm
> unity-mattermostdata=02%7C01%7Crmccabe%40MUTUALOFENUMCLAW.COM%7Ca
> 1e943177ffc4f2d25da08d819fd702e%7C5a381f7dcc3d4a93b2cbd2fd072e535a%7C1
> %7C0%7C637287923585463930sdata=feh79oxBKnJUOLcX0pYmtHJwYoOABeIety
> 9EMMxcYUM%3Dreserved=0
>
> That being said I’d say “traditional”  peeps like some of the reactions I 
> read here should probably not even try to see what it is.
>
> There’s no punch cards. No bus But an easy, modern, new (young) blood 
> friendly environment where about 100 peeps are having some fun discussing 
> mainframe things.
>
> No hard feelings.
>
> And a happy weekend !
>
>
>
> Sent from my wireless iPhone
>
>> On 17 Jun 2020, at 01:12, Peter Bishop  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Carmen,
>>
>> "there's no such thing as a dumb question" comes to mind.  No need for any 
>> corner for you.  I also learned a bit of history and now know why that site 
>> Kolosu mentioned looks like so much rubbish now...
>>
>> cheers,
>> Peter
>>
>>>> On 16/06/2020 10:31 pm, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
>>> Kolusu, reached out to me personally and I replied to the wrong message and 
>>> my response went to this forum, so I need more coffee.
>>> thanks for the kind words and now that my response is 'out there' I have to 
>>> apologize to Mark for naming names. As a novice it's sometimes frustrating 
>>> when the company you support does not pay for Q support from IBM and has 
>>> been so terrible to loose all their MF staff.
>>> I've been lucky to be able to move on and learn more about design and build 
>>> and supporting my environment.
>>> back to my corner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - O

Re: New Mainframe Community

[Pew, Curtis G]

On Jun 26, 2020, at 1:43 PM, McCabe, Ron  wrote:
> 
> I know this is off topic but what does IMHO stand for?
> 

In My Humble Opinion.


-- 
Pew, Curtis G
curtis@austin.utexas.edu

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Joe Monk]

In my humble opinion

joe

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:44 PM McCabe, Ron 
wrote:

> I know this is off topic but what does IMHO stand for?
>
> Thanks,
> Ron McCabe
> Manager of Mainframe/Midrange Systems
> Mutual of Enumclaw
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Henri Kuiper
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:19 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>
> CAUTION: This email is from an external address. Please be careful of
> links and attachments.
>
>
> I was referring to the generic average. Not to anything anyone wrote here.
>
> I already regret replying.
>
> /EOT
>
>
> > On 26 Jun 2020, at 19:30, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
> >
> > Not all change is progress, nor does an ad hominem argument bolster
> your case. Neither does constructing straw dummies. "New is bad.  Different
> is bad." is a free construct of your imagination, unrelated to anything
> that anybody here wrote.
> >
> > Are their objections valid? I don't know, but misrepresenting them won't
> convince anybody that they're wrong.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.g
> > mu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7Crmccabe%40MUTUALOFENUMCLAW.COM%7Ca
> > 1e943177ffc4f2d25da08d819fd702e%7C5a381f7dcc3d4a93b2cbd2fd072e535a%7C1
> > %7C0%7C637287923585463930sdata=SjLcLbjqGR3mfHqipZQ1m9cCXLbjpal983
> > ru177s4ow%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on
> > behalf of Henri Kuiper [henrikui...@zdevops.com]
> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:57 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
> >
> > Wow. What a lot of pushback.
> >
> > This is (IMHO) precisely what’s wrong with the (generic average)
> mainframe community. New is bad.  Different is bad.
> >
> > Dudes (m/f) : it’s not the 80s anymore.
> >
> > That being said : here’s a little “why” for the existence of the thing
> > :
> > https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecu
> > re-web.cisco.com%2F1XvN1_V6ok1sJNlFaq7Z343XlW_wRn1pLUP1SgDYhckTcNv1FTR
> > NKBGu8BhJjyQFtzWCCdxOEkvQnVbzjpkqyIRWBMVMKO5NSI-_UQmV1T4GP85WyNx0I4tfX
> > KY1GyyBAr7-13umt61eWdwZnJ4bmDSMkvpmk0_byLSjeOa645E40X2BFl2gbfYLVB5tGPd
> > 17bav80BvBMpmwbZflaSxkwRKCxNL5XcRfUQPMhpXZWZmUKY1zXMYL7_BESm8M2UUp15ds
> > c7B9m8yYh98BuxkEmTbrJsw_AtpWxwk9--8dv2iecdL4nxNDhXzCt6cDHOu1q85TVJ2MqE
> > pSo446EYbJAKC4r5vEuKvLDlI1DJ2XnTNZopVXqx9eofDzOzd8aDo1iWe_YjyhkhxGMZSC
> > 3vWLVdzgWUvbc1ciqLqZXVnjecO_3YH03XnqCv8Bk5um6Tm4%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252
> > Fzdevops.tumblr.com%252Fpost%252F620908065704853504%252Fmainframe-comm
> > unity-mattermostdata=02%7C01%7Crmccabe%40MUTUALOFENUMCLAW.COM%7Ca
> > 1e943177ffc4f2d25da08d819fd702e%7C5a381f7dcc3d4a93b2cbd2fd072e535a%7C1
> > %7C0%7C637287923585463930sdata=feh79oxBKnJUOLcX0pYmtHJwYoOABeIety
> > 9EMMxcYUM%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > That being said I’d say “traditional”  peeps like some of the reactions
> I read here should probably not even try to see what it is.
> >
> > There’s no punch cards. No bus But an easy, modern, new (young)
> blood friendly environment where about 100 peeps are having some fun
> discussing mainframe things.
> >
> > No hard feelings.
> >
> > And a happy weekend !
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my wireless iPhone
> >
> >> On 17 Jun 2020, at 01:12, Peter Bishop  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Carmen,
> >>
> >> "there's no such thing as a dumb question" comes to mind.  No need for
> any corner for you.  I also learned a bit of history and now know why that
> site Kolosu mentioned looks like so much rubbish now...
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>>> On 16/06/2020 10:31 pm, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
> >>> Kolusu, reached out to me personally and I replied to the wrong
> message and my response went to this forum, so I need more coffee.
> >>> thanks for the kind words and now that my response is 'out there' I
> have to apologize to Mark for naming names. As a novice it's sometimes
> frustrating when the company you support does not pay for Q support from
> IBM and has been so terrible to loose all their MF staff.
> >>> I've been lucky to be able to move on and learn more about design and
> build and supporting my environment.
> >>> back to my corner
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>

Re: New Mainframe Community

[McCabe, Ron]

I know this is off topic but what does IMHO stand for?

Thanks,
Ron McCabe
Manager of Mainframe/Midrange Systems
Mutual of Enumclaw

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Henri Kuiper
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

CAUTION: This email is from an external address. Please be careful of links and 
attachments.


I was referring to the generic average. Not to anything anyone wrote here.

I already regret replying.

/EOT


> On 26 Jun 2020, at 19:30, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> Not all change is progress, nor does an ad hominem argument bolster your 
> case. Neither does constructing straw dummies. "New is bad.  Different is 
> bad." is a free construct of your imagination, unrelated to anything that 
> anybody here wrote.
>
> Are their objections valid? I don't know, but misrepresenting them won't 
> convince anybody that they're wrong.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.g
> mu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7Crmccabe%40MUTUALOFENUMCLAW.COM%7Ca
> 1e943177ffc4f2d25da08d819fd702e%7C5a381f7dcc3d4a93b2cbd2fd072e535a%7C1
> %7C0%7C637287923585463930sdata=SjLcLbjqGR3mfHqipZQ1m9cCXLbjpal983
> ru177s4ow%3Dreserved=0
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on
> behalf of Henri Kuiper [henrikui...@zdevops.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:57 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>
> Wow. What a lot of pushback.
>
> This is (IMHO) precisely what’s wrong with the (generic average)  mainframe 
> community. New is bad.  Different is bad.
>
> Dudes (m/f) : it’s not the 80s anymore.
>
> That being said : here’s a little “why” for the existence of the thing
> :
> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecu
> re-web.cisco.com%2F1XvN1_V6ok1sJNlFaq7Z343XlW_wRn1pLUP1SgDYhckTcNv1FTR
> NKBGu8BhJjyQFtzWCCdxOEkvQnVbzjpkqyIRWBMVMKO5NSI-_UQmV1T4GP85WyNx0I4tfX
> KY1GyyBAr7-13umt61eWdwZnJ4bmDSMkvpmk0_byLSjeOa645E40X2BFl2gbfYLVB5tGPd
> 17bav80BvBMpmwbZflaSxkwRKCxNL5XcRfUQPMhpXZWZmUKY1zXMYL7_BESm8M2UUp15ds
> c7B9m8yYh98BuxkEmTbrJsw_AtpWxwk9--8dv2iecdL4nxNDhXzCt6cDHOu1q85TVJ2MqE
> pSo446EYbJAKC4r5vEuKvLDlI1DJ2XnTNZopVXqx9eofDzOzd8aDo1iWe_YjyhkhxGMZSC
> 3vWLVdzgWUvbc1ciqLqZXVnjecO_3YH03XnqCv8Bk5um6Tm4%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252
> Fzdevops.tumblr.com%252Fpost%252F620908065704853504%252Fmainframe-comm
> unity-mattermostdata=02%7C01%7Crmccabe%40MUTUALOFENUMCLAW.COM%7Ca
> 1e943177ffc4f2d25da08d819fd702e%7C5a381f7dcc3d4a93b2cbd2fd072e535a%7C1
> %7C0%7C637287923585463930sdata=feh79oxBKnJUOLcX0pYmtHJwYoOABeIety
> 9EMMxcYUM%3Dreserved=0
>
> That being said I’d say “traditional”  peeps like some of the reactions I 
> read here should probably not even try to see what it is.
>
> There’s no punch cards. No bus But an easy, modern, new (young) blood 
> friendly environment where about 100 peeps are having some fun discussing 
> mainframe things.
>
> No hard feelings.
>
> And a happy weekend !
>
>
>
> Sent from my wireless iPhone
>
>> On 17 Jun 2020, at 01:12, Peter Bishop  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Carmen,
>>
>> "there's no such thing as a dumb question" comes to mind.  No need for any 
>> corner for you.  I also learned a bit of history and now know why that site 
>> Kolosu mentioned looks like so much rubbish now...
>>
>> cheers,
>> Peter
>>
>>>> On 16/06/2020 10:31 pm, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
>>> Kolusu, reached out to me personally and I replied to the wrong message and 
>>> my response went to this forum, so I need more coffee.
>>> thanks for the kind words and now that my response is 'out there' I have to 
>>> apologize to Mark for naming names. As a novice it's sometimes frustrating 
>>> when the company you support does not pay for Q support from IBM and has 
>>> been so terrible to loose all their MF staff.
>>> I've been lucky to be able to move on and learn more about design and build 
>>> and supporting my environment.
>>> back to my corner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>>
>>> From: "Lionel B Dyck" 
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:24:06 AM
>>> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>>>
>>> Carmen - never put yourself down. While you may not be 'as smart' as some, 
>>> I'm sure you are 'smarter' than some as well. We each bring to the table 
>>> (foru

Re: New Mainframe Community

[Henri Kuiper]

I was referring to the generic average. Not to anything anyone wrote here. 

I already regret replying. 

/EOT


> On 26 Jun 2020, at 19:30, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
> 
> Not all change is progress, nor does an ad hominem argument bolster your 
> case. Neither does constructing straw dummies. "New is bad.  Different is 
> bad." is a free construct of your imagination, unrelated to anything that 
> anybody here wrote.
> 
> Are their objections valid? I don't know, but misrepresenting them won't 
> convince anybody that they're wrong.
> 
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
> Henri Kuiper [henrikui...@zdevops.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:57 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
> 
> Wow. What a lot of pushback.
> 
> This is (IMHO) precisely what’s wrong with the (generic average)  mainframe 
> community. New is bad.  Different is bad.
> 
> Dudes (m/f) : it’s not the 80s anymore.
> 
> That being said : here’s a little “why” for the existence of the thing : 
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1XvN1_V6ok1sJNlFaq7Z343XlW_wRn1pLUP1SgDYhckTcNv1FTRNKBGu8BhJjyQFtzWCCdxOEkvQnVbzjpkqyIRWBMVMKO5NSI-_UQmV1T4GP85WyNx0I4tfXKY1GyyBAr7-13umt61eWdwZnJ4bmDSMkvpmk0_byLSjeOa645E40X2BFl2gbfYLVB5tGPd17bav80BvBMpmwbZflaSxkwRKCxNL5XcRfUQPMhpXZWZmUKY1zXMYL7_BESm8M2UUp15dsc7B9m8yYh98BuxkEmTbrJsw_AtpWxwk9--8dv2iecdL4nxNDhXzCt6cDHOu1q85TVJ2MqEpSo446EYbJAKC4r5vEuKvLDlI1DJ2XnTNZopVXqx9eofDzOzd8aDo1iWe_YjyhkhxGMZSC3vWLVdzgWUvbc1ciqLqZXVnjecO_3YH03XnqCv8Bk5um6Tm4/https%3A%2F%2Fzdevops.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F620908065704853504%2Fmainframe-community-mattermost
> 
> That being said I’d say “traditional”  peeps like some of the reactions I 
> read here should probably not even try to see what it is.
> 
> There’s no punch cards. No bus But an easy, modern, new (young) blood 
> friendly environment where about 100 peeps are having some fun discussing 
> mainframe things.
> 
> No hard feelings.
> 
> And a happy weekend !
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my wireless iPhone
> 
>> On 17 Jun 2020, at 01:12, Peter Bishop  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Carmen,
>> 
>> "there's no such thing as a dumb question" comes to mind.  No need for any 
>> corner for you.  I also learned a bit of history and now know why that site 
>> Kolosu mentioned looks like so much rubbish now...
>> 
>> cheers,
>> Peter
>> 
>>>> On 16/06/2020 10:31 pm, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
>>> Kolusu, reached out to me personally and I replied to the wrong message and 
>>> my response went to this forum, so I need more coffee.
>>> thanks for the kind words and now that my response is 'out there' I have to 
>>> apologize to Mark for naming names. As a novice it's sometimes frustrating 
>>> when the company you support does not pay for Q support from IBM and has 
>>> been so terrible to loose all their MF staff.
>>> I've been lucky to be able to move on and learn more about design and build 
>>> and supporting my environment.
>>> back to my corner
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> 
>>> From: "Lionel B Dyck" 
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:24:06 AM
>>> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>>> 
>>> Carmen - never put yourself down. While you may not be 'as smart' as some, 
>>> I'm sure you are 'smarter' than some as well. We each bring to the table 
>>> (forum/life) our own skills and capabilities which complement rather than 
>>> replace those of others.
>>> 
>>> Flames should be reserved for fires and stars, not for shaming others.
>>> 
>>> Lionel B. Dyck <
>>> Website: 
>>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1yULUSmjcKu0JnI82-5pjv0k_Bny1yocXQ9O03xc8h1NKHop6zLYzmNDxJ6z8LbrWzqNKRE7ptnw5iOhkRQ2c8tlxUmxWlMCHga0Sh61wLJ5v7tIB3FPgl7P0FZbnO2IGRvYoNImo91L3m4-Nh3nMPatReD2DgXqFRZJCuAAK6hvnhfK5RfaTyvdaxOGJO4RNHceQLytnjeMBaKC3SMbn2yACSsavfpWOzE1mSGe1rcML2-AvSd1pjmNwBoxRVhoiZXC_c1-RH3PG1QbOpmEwn9xD8ZhTQaJ1YoOVwo7jPVe_TeQVImE1vLNSIANkZwdjnp353SoqsOUka5CLnJ_BuoPXfoyGBoGe5KoPrn38nbp4M74Ba6OX1BKixY7lwHU1zSwreweMWT2oGDOfwBaNk9UcVYlwTboFQ37Nebqh99zBGO-q35f0ruDBXMtYAayr/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbdsoftware.com
>>> 
>>> "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what 
>>> you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe 

Re: New Mainframe Community

[Seymour J Metz]

Not all change is progress, nor does an ad hominem argument bolster your case. 
Neither does constructing straw dummies. "New is bad.  Different is bad." is a 
free construct of your imagination, unrelated to anything that anybody here 
wrote.

Are their objections valid? I don't know, but misrepresenting them won't 
convince anybody that they're wrong.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Henri Kuiper [henrikui...@zdevops.com]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Wow. What a lot of pushback.

This is (IMHO) precisely what’s wrong with the (generic average)  mainframe 
community. New is bad.  Different is bad.

Dudes (m/f) : it’s not the 80s anymore.

That being said : here’s a little “why” for the existence of the thing : 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1XvN1_V6ok1sJNlFaq7Z343XlW_wRn1pLUP1SgDYhckTcNv1FTRNKBGu8BhJjyQFtzWCCdxOEkvQnVbzjpkqyIRWBMVMKO5NSI-_UQmV1T4GP85WyNx0I4tfXKY1GyyBAr7-13umt61eWdwZnJ4bmDSMkvpmk0_byLSjeOa645E40X2BFl2gbfYLVB5tGPd17bav80BvBMpmwbZflaSxkwRKCxNL5XcRfUQPMhpXZWZmUKY1zXMYL7_BESm8M2UUp15dsc7B9m8yYh98BuxkEmTbrJsw_AtpWxwk9--8dv2iecdL4nxNDhXzCt6cDHOu1q85TVJ2MqEpSo446EYbJAKC4r5vEuKvLDlI1DJ2XnTNZopVXqx9eofDzOzd8aDo1iWe_YjyhkhxGMZSC3vWLVdzgWUvbc1ciqLqZXVnjecO_3YH03XnqCv8Bk5um6Tm4/https%3A%2F%2Fzdevops.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F620908065704853504%2Fmainframe-community-mattermost

That being said I’d say “traditional”  peeps like some of the reactions I read 
here should probably not even try to see what it is.

There’s no punch cards. No bus But an easy, modern, new (young) blood 
friendly environment where about 100 peeps are having some fun discussing 
mainframe things.

No hard feelings.

And a happy weekend !



Sent from my wireless iPhone

> On 17 Jun 2020, at 01:12, Peter Bishop  wrote:
>
> Hi Carmen,
>
> "there's no such thing as a dumb question" comes to mind.  No need for any 
> corner for you.  I also learned a bit of history and now know why that site 
> Kolosu mentioned looks like so much rubbish now...
>
> cheers,
> Peter
>
>> On 16/06/2020 10:31 pm, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
>> Kolusu, reached out to me personally and I replied to the wrong message and 
>> my response went to this forum, so I need more coffee.
>> thanks for the kind words and now that my response is 'out there' I have to 
>> apologize to Mark for naming names. As a novice it's sometimes frustrating 
>> when the company you support does not pay for Q support from IBM and has 
>> been so terrible to loose all their MF staff.
>> I've been lucky to be able to move on and learn more about design and build 
>> and supporting my environment.
>> back to my corner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -
>>
>> From: "Lionel B Dyck" 
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:24:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>>
>> Carmen - never put yourself down. While you may not be 'as smart' as some, 
>> I'm sure you are 'smarter' than some as well. We each bring to the table 
>> (forum/life) our own skills and capabilities which complement rather than 
>> replace those of others.
>>
>> Flames should be reserved for fires and stars, not for shaming others.
>>
>> Lionel B. Dyck <
>> Website: 
>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1yULUSmjcKu0JnI82-5pjv0k_Bny1yocXQ9O03xc8h1NKHop6zLYzmNDxJ6z8LbrWzqNKRE7ptnw5iOhkRQ2c8tlxUmxWlMCHga0Sh61wLJ5v7tIB3FPgl7P0FZbnO2IGRvYoNImo91L3m4-Nh3nMPatReD2DgXqFRZJCuAAK6hvnhfK5RfaTyvdaxOGJO4RNHceQLytnjeMBaKC3SMbn2yACSsavfpWOzE1mSGe1rcML2-AvSd1pjmNwBoxRVhoiZXC_c1-RH3PG1QbOpmEwn9xD8ZhTQaJ1YoOVwo7jPVe_TeQVImE1vLNSIANkZwdjnp353SoqsOUka5CLnJ_BuoPXfoyGBoGe5KoPrn38nbp4M74Ba6OX1BKixY7lwHU1zSwreweMWT2oGDOfwBaNk9UcVYlwTboFQ37Nebqh99zBGO-q35f0ruDBXMtYAayr/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbdsoftware.com
>>
>> "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
>> are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
>> Carmen Vitullo
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:17 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>>
>> Kolusu, thank you for the history lesson, I personally would never 
>> 'advertise' (suggest) this site if I knew how low some folks will go to sell 
>> answers, I know of a couple of industries that do this, ask.com, I think was 
>> the first site I ever came across that you could ask a question and for a 
>> nominal price get an answer.
>> As I mentioned, being a novice mys

Re: New Mainframe Community

[Henri Kuiper]

Wow. What a lot of pushback. 

This is (IMHO) precisely what’s wrong with the (generic average)  mainframe 
community. New is bad.  Different is bad. 

Dudes (m/f) : it’s not the 80s anymore. 

That being said : here’s a little “why” for the existence of the thing : 
https://zdevops.tumblr.com/post/620908065704853504/mainframe-community-mattermost

That being said I’d say “traditional”  peeps like some of the reactions I read 
here should probably not even try to see what it is. 

There’s no punch cards. No bus But an easy, modern, new (young) blood 
friendly environment where about 100 peeps are having some fun discussing 
mainframe things. 

No hard feelings. 

And a happy weekend !



Sent from my wireless iPhone

> On 17 Jun 2020, at 01:12, Peter Bishop  wrote:
> 
> Hi Carmen,
> 
> "there's no such thing as a dumb question" comes to mind.  No need for any 
> corner for you.  I also learned a bit of history and now know why that site 
> Kolosu mentioned looks like so much rubbish now...
> 
> cheers,
> Peter
> 
>> On 16/06/2020 10:31 pm, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
>> Kolusu, reached out to me personally and I replied to the wrong message and 
>> my response went to this forum, so I need more coffee.
>> thanks for the kind words and now that my response is 'out there' I have to 
>> apologize to Mark for naming names. As a novice it's sometimes frustrating 
>> when the company you support does not pay for Q support from IBM and has 
>> been so terrible to loose all their MF staff.
>> I've been lucky to be able to move on and learn more about design and build 
>> and supporting my environment.
>> back to my corner
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> 
>> From: "Lionel B Dyck" 
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:24:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>> 
>> Carmen - never put yourself down. While you may not be 'as smart' as some, 
>> I'm sure you are 'smarter' than some as well. We each bring to the table 
>> (forum/life) our own skills and capabilities which complement rather than 
>> replace those of others.
>> 
>> Flames should be reserved for fires and stars, not for shaming others.
>> 
>> Lionel B. Dyck <
>> Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
>> 
>> "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
>> are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
>> Carmen Vitullo
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:17 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>> 
>> Kolusu, thank you for the history lesson, I personally would never 
>> 'advertise' (suggest) this site if I knew how low some folks will go to sell 
>> answers, I know of a couple of industries that do this, ask.com, I think was 
>> the first site I ever came across that you could ask a question and for a 
>> nominal price get an answer.
>> As I mentioned, being a novice myself at one time, I needed help with a 
>> SYSPLEX issue, I asked here, well, IBM-MAIN, and no one paid attention, at 
>> the time the hot topic for MVS folks was Windows related, I pointed that out 
>> that this was a MAINFRAME forum and was immediately shamed and flamed by 
>> Mark Zelden + others , that was the only reason why I came across that other 
>> site .
>> I've been a SYSPROG since 1993 came up from operations, I'm not as smart as 
>> most here but I do try and provide help when I can, and continue to read the 
>> Q+A here.
>> again thanks for reaching out to me and not shaming me more on the forum
>> 
>> Carmen Vitullo
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> 
>> From: "Sri h Kolusu" 
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 1:01:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>> 
>>> well then - they miss out on me, I've got free answers, and I know a
>>> lot of folks - beginners mostly that received good help.
>> I was a member of those sites and provided numerous answers (skolusu) and 
>> quit when they started forcing ads.
>> 
>>> I have much more work to do than research other sites.
>> I only pointed out because you are promoting a sham site. Nothing against 
>> you.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Kolusu
>> 
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@lists

Re: New Mainframe Community

[Peter Bishop]

Hi Carmen,

"there's no such thing as a dumb question" comes to mind.  No need for 
any corner for you.  I also learned a bit of history and now know why 
that site Kolosu mentioned looks like so much rubbish now...


cheers,
Peter

On 16/06/2020 10:31 pm, Carmen Vitullo wrote:

Kolusu, reached out to me personally and I replied to the wrong message and my 
response went to this forum, so I need more coffee.
thanks for the kind words and now that my response is 'out there' I have to 
apologize to Mark for naming names. As a novice it's sometimes frustrating when the 
company you support does not pay for Q support from IBM and has been so 
terrible to loose all their MF staff.
I've been lucky to be able to move on and learn more about design and build and 
supporting my environment.
back to my corner




- Original Message -

From: "Lionel B Dyck" 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:24:06 AM
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Carmen - never put yourself down. While you may not be 'as smart' as some, I'm 
sure you are 'smarter' than some as well. We each bring to the table 
(forum/life) our own skills and capabilities which complement rather than 
replace those of others.

Flames should be reserved for fires and stars, not for shaming others.

Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, 
reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:17 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Kolusu, thank you for the history lesson, I personally would never 'advertise' 
(suggest) this site if I knew how low some folks will go to sell answers, I 
know of a couple of industries that do this, ask.com, I think was the first 
site I ever came across that you could ask a question and for a nominal price 
get an answer.
As I mentioned, being a novice myself at one time, I needed help with a SYSPLEX 
issue, I asked here, well, IBM-MAIN, and no one paid attention, at the time the 
hot topic for MVS folks was Windows related, I pointed that out that this was a 
MAINFRAME forum and was immediately shamed and flamed by Mark Zelden + others , 
that was the only reason why I came across that other site .
I've been a SYSPROG since 1993 came up from operations, I'm not as smart as 
most here but I do try and provide help when I can, and continue to read the 
Q+A here.
again thanks for reaching out to me and not shaming me more on the forum

Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "Sri h Kolusu" 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 1:01:41 PM
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community


well then - they miss out on me, I've got free answers, and I know a
lot of folks - beginners mostly that received good help.

I was a member of those sites and provided numerous answers (skolusu) and quit 
when they started forcing ads.


I have much more work to do than research other sites.

I only pointed out because you are promoting a sham site. Nothing against you.


Thanks,
Kolusu

--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Seymour J Metz]

When I was forced to use edge I found it to be worse than IE, at least from the 
user perspective; it might have better security for all I know. At Home I use 
Firefox, and I might wind up with Falkon ( https://www.falkon.org/about/).

Are you seeing an use of Konqueror 
(https://kde.org/applications/internet/org.kde.konqueror)?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Scott Chapman [scott.chap...@epstrategies.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Increasingly rare though.

Looking across all of our customer requests for the last month or so, I do see 
users who came in on IE, but in every one of those instances, somebody else 
from the company came in on Chrome, Firefox, or Edge (which the earlier 
versions weren't that much better than IE). There's even a few Safari and Opera 
users out there.

The numbers imply that IE may be the corporate default but most (and apparently 
all our customers) are allowing Chrome or Firefox as well. Chrome seems to be 
the most popular option. Even Microsoft saw the light: the current version of 
Edge is based on the open source version of Chrome under the covers. Some have 
suggested it would be better to have more diversity in the underlying browser 
technology, but Chromium generally is pretty good.

Scott Chapman


On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 10:46:13 -0400, Gord Tomlin 
 wrote:

>On 2020-06-15 00:49, David Crayford wrote:
>> Wow, "corporate-required Internet Explorer"! Your company needs to
>> review some of it's standards!!
>
>We still encounter this now and then in our customer base.
>
>--
>
>Regards, Gord Tomlin
>Action Software International
>(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
>Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
>Support: 
>https://secure-web.cisco.com/11ptjZmgCHjCNF7XLJC-oDaGLLRtmd3773taExT9R6OF6OZAi-3Mn82O4Y4lwZ3EjgmsO3gIiS9pCuzbBrY08BGpCczrFpmjkuCxfvHtfzXHKovnCSf29DG6N5AGJz8Cdu6BjqNeblb6PoDsV93srzipWK0_QQwFLhIFjoryABSfYhGr7EUmWxbw1-lJ0Am0y312IVDuiWiF_vipWjLfSXGUh2pFBUDVRUbY65qclDrnnj9CkzUSlg9_mcceFB2agWC9JBE-LebHFn30cyXh6cYAsFcdN9DBw0zUyq-vX6Y339NJ00rentPeGvLl9ZeTU03BdMMrAnDyd6suE-LrMWOoG-iTQ1c5rdgNJK94fi-fc9GG3jc2G7cm3hYUN-PjviUQ9Z9d_I7G4l-aylB8boVf69qsGs6J73p2NoBncxp5sBjlX2Au42tbjNLjtc0vn/https%3A%2F%2Factionsoftware.com%2Fsupport%2F
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Carmen Vitullo]

Kolusu, reached out to me personally and I replied to the wrong message and my 
response went to this forum, so I need more coffee. 
thanks for the kind words and now that my response is 'out there' I have to 
apologize to Mark for naming names. As a novice it's sometimes frustrating when 
the company you support does not pay for Q support from IBM and has been so 
terrible to loose all their MF staff. 
I've been lucky to be able to move on and learn more about design and build and 
supporting my environment. 
back to my corner 




- Original Message -

From: "Lionel B Dyck"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:24:06 AM 
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community 

Carmen - never put yourself down. While you may not be 'as smart' as some, I'm 
sure you are 'smarter' than some as well. We each bring to the table 
(forum/life) our own skills and capabilities which complement rather than 
replace those of others. 

Flames should be reserved for fires and stars, not for shaming others. 

Lionel B. Dyck < 
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com 

"Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden 

-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo 
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:17 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community 

Kolusu, thank you for the history lesson, I personally would never 'advertise' 
(suggest) this site if I knew how low some folks will go to sell answers, I 
know of a couple of industries that do this, ask.com, I think was the first 
site I ever came across that you could ask a question and for a nominal price 
get an answer. 
As I mentioned, being a novice myself at one time, I needed help with a SYSPLEX 
issue, I asked here, well, IBM-MAIN, and no one paid attention, at the time the 
hot topic for MVS folks was Windows related, I pointed that out that this was a 
MAINFRAME forum and was immediately shamed and flamed by Mark Zelden + others , 
that was the only reason why I came across that other site . 
I've been a SYSPROG since 1993 came up from operations, I'm not as smart as 
most here but I do try and provide help when I can, and continue to read the 
Q+A here. 
again thanks for reaching out to me and not shaming me more on the forum 

Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message - 

From: "Sri h Kolusu"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 1:01:41 PM 
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community 

> well then - they miss out on me, I've got free answers, and I know a 
> lot of folks - beginners mostly that received good help. 

I was a member of those sites and provided numerous answers (skolusu) and quit 
when they started forcing ads. 

>I have much more work to do than research other sites. 

I only pointed out because you are promoting a sham site. Nothing against you. 


Thanks, 
Kolusu 

-- 
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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Lionel B Dyck]

Carmen - never put yourself down. While you may not be 'as smart' as some, I'm 
sure you are 'smarter' than some as well. We each bring to the table 
(forum/life) our own skills and capabilities which complement rather than 
replace those of others.

Flames should be reserved for fires and stars, not for shaming others.

Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 7:17 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Kolusu, thank you for the history lesson, I personally would never 'advertise' 
(suggest) this site if I knew how low some folks will go to sell answers, I 
know of a couple of industries that do this, ask.com, I think was the first 
site I ever came across that you could ask a question and for a nominal price 
get an answer. 
As I mentioned, being a novice myself at one time, I needed help with a SYSPLEX 
issue, I asked here, well, IBM-MAIN, and no one paid attention, at the time the 
hot topic for MVS folks was Windows related, I pointed that out that this was a 
MAINFRAME forum and was immediately shamed and flamed by Mark Zelden + others , 
that was the only reason why I came across that other site . 
I've been a SYSPROG since 1993 came up from operations, I'm not as smart as 
most here but I do try and provide help when I can, and continue to read the 
Q+A here. 
again thanks for reaching out to me and not shaming me more on the forum 

Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Sri h Kolusu" 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 1:01:41 PM
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community 

> well then - they miss out on me, I've got free answers, and I know a 
> lot of folks - beginners mostly that received good help.

I was a member of those sites and provided numerous answers (skolusu) and quit 
when they started forcing ads. 

>I have much more work to do than research other sites. 

I only pointed out because you are promoting a sham site. Nothing against you. 


Thanks, 
Kolusu 

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Carmen Vitullo]

Kolusu, thank you for the history lesson, I personally would never 'advertise' 
(suggest) this site if I knew how low some folks will go to sell answers, I 
know of a couple of industries that do this, ask.com, I think was the first 
site I ever came across that you could ask a question and for a nominal price 
get an answer. 
As I mentioned, being a novice myself at one time, I needed help with a SYSPLEX 
issue, I asked here, well, IBM-MAIN, and no one paid attention, at the time the 
hot topic for MVS folks was Windows related, I pointed that out that this was a 
MAINFRAME forum and was immediately shamed and flamed by Mark Zelden + others , 
that was the only reason why I came across that other site . 
I've been a SYSPROG since 1993 came up from operations, I'm not as smart as 
most here but I do try and provide help when I can, and continue to read the 
Q+A here. 
again thanks for reaching out to me and not shaming me more on the forum 

Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Sri h Kolusu"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 1:01:41 PM 
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community 

> well then - they miss out on me, I've got free answers, and I know a 
> lot of folks - beginners mostly that received good help. 

I was a member of those sites and provided numerous answers (skolusu) and 
quit when they started forcing ads. 

>I have much more work to do than research other sites. 

I only pointed out because you are promoting a sham site. Nothing against 
you. 


Thanks, 
Kolusu 

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[David Crayford]

I wouldn't use a non-evergreen browser! But some companies want to 
control updates which is probably corporate policy albeit brain-damaged. 
I would be leery about connecting to the internet using IE!


On 2020-06-16 7:36 PM, Scott Chapman wrote:

Increasingly rare though.

Looking across all of our customer requests for the last month or so, I do see 
users who came in on IE, but in every one of those instances, somebody else 
from the company came in on Chrome, Firefox, or Edge (which the earlier 
versions weren't that much better than IE). There's even a few Safari and Opera 
users out there.

The numbers imply that IE may be the corporate default but most (and apparently 
all our customers) are allowing Chrome or Firefox as well. Chrome seems to be 
the most popular option. Even Microsoft saw the light: the current version of 
Edge is based on the open source version of Chrome under the covers. Some have 
suggested it would be better to have more diversity in the underlying browser 
technology, but Chromium generally is pretty good.

Scott Chapman


On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 10:46:13 -0400, Gord Tomlin 
 wrote:


On 2020-06-15 00:49, David Crayford wrote:

Wow, "corporate-required Internet Explorer"! Your company needs to
review some of it's standards!!

We still encounter this now and then in our customer base.

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Scott Chapman]

Increasingly rare though. 

Looking across all of our customer requests for the last month or so, I do see 
users who came in on IE, but in every one of those instances, somebody else 
from the company came in on Chrome, Firefox, or Edge (which the earlier 
versions weren't that much better than IE). There's even a few Safari and Opera 
users out there. 

The numbers imply that IE may be the corporate default but most (and apparently 
all our customers) are allowing Chrome or Firefox as well. Chrome seems to be 
the most popular option. Even Microsoft saw the light: the current version of 
Edge is based on the open source version of Chrome under the covers. Some have 
suggested it would be better to have more diversity in the underlying browser 
technology, but Chromium generally is pretty good. 

Scott Chapman


On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 10:46:13 -0400, Gord Tomlin 
 wrote:

>On 2020-06-15 00:49, David Crayford wrote:
>> Wow, "corporate-required Internet Explorer"! Your company needs to
>> review some of it's standards!!
>
>We still encounter this now and then in our customer base.
>
>--
>
>Regards, Gord Tomlin
>Action Software International
>(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
>Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
>Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
>
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Re: [External] Re: New Mainframe Community

[Pommier, Rex]

I remember that as well.  They would display about 3-4 pages of the manual and 
have the rest grayed out with the "pay to unlock and read".  

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Tom 
Brennan
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 2:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: New Mainframe Community

When searching google for manuals, I seem to remember coming across a site that 
has uploaded things like redbooks and (I believe) charges for access.  Sorry no 
link right now but I'm sure I remember this.

P.S. That'll be $19.99 for this information.  But wait... if you call right now 
you can double your order.  Just pay an additional fee.

On 6/15/2020 10:40 AM, Sri h Kolusu wrote:
>>>> sell answers? first I heard, pathetic ?
> 
> They DO sell the answers. go check on the parent site. I consider any 
> one selling the knowledge of other is pathetic.
> 
>> seems someone is confused  the site I was referring to is
> 
> I am crystal clear on the sites you refer.  No confusion involved. The 
> site your refer is also being run by the same folks that I mentioned earlier.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Kolusu
> 

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Tom Brennan]

When searching google for manuals, I seem to remember coming across a 
site that has uploaded things like redbooks and (I believe) charges for 
access.  Sorry no link right now but I'm sure I remember this.


P.S. That'll be $19.99 for this information.  But wait... if you call 
right now you can double your order.  Just pay an additional fee.


On 6/15/2020 10:40 AM, Sri h Kolusu wrote:

sell answers? first I heard, pathetic ?


They DO sell the answers. go check on the parent site. I consider any one
selling the knowledge of other is pathetic.


seems someone is confused  the site I was referring to is


I am crystal clear on the sites you refer.  No confusion involved. The site
your refer is also being run by the same folks that I mentioned earlier.


Thanks,
Kolusu



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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Don Leahy]

I was on that site for many years, but now the obnoxious ads are driving me
away.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 14:09 Carmen Vitullo  wrote:

> I thought I recognized your name, I was there back in the day when all the
> members of my MF team quit, and I was left to sort out z/os installs
> SYSPLEX , MAS...I/O def... I reached out here for some help and got very
> little, I found that site over 10 years ago maybe and got some good help
> from folks I knew that were mentors, I never knew they started promoting
> ads.
> thanks for pointing that out
>
>
> Carmen Vitullo
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Sri h Kolusu" 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 1:01:41 PM
> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>
> > well then - they miss out on me, I've got free answers, and I know a
> > lot of folks - beginners mostly that received good help.
>
> I was a member of those sites and provided numerous answers (skolusu) and
> quit when they started forcing ads.
>
> >I have much more work to do than research other sites.
>
> I only pointed out because you are promoting a sham site. Nothing against
> you.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Kolusu
>
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Edg (was Re: New Mainframe Community)

[Steve Smith]

Yeah, MS finally got the message.  The newest "Edge" is yet another wrapper
around Chromium, so presumably it doesn't suck quite as hard as MS browsers
traditionally do.  But I'm just going to assume that the best it can be
isn't good enough to use it.

sas

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:06 PM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> I used to think that IE was as bad as it got, but ?Fairfax County Public
> Libraries switched to edge (I call it edgey) and that was worse.
>
>

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Seymour J Metz]

And that won't work with old browsers.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Phil Smith III [li...@akphs.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2020 9:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>Check this out - looks new but promising

>https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Hxjnbu-7QL9NZvqzYa_Oy2C7KBtwM6hflC-fnf5qwAfExalxQ2IKvdbQaBAaCtRwPLgafx76jZ88noTjlbkGbOzsG-J2taCO3lLAwX3hZ8C8ABWBn-ExaJdYs7bfyEEbh_k31WbzUrQBMIIkZvCqjtqAC4x0gAXDHzwT1GvigukqnE6bF1RvCIZyFVPU1US64BCGw81gjDMvlAdB_vca1QmfnbSg3eI7Bljo_3QeSFxG1xrFaVSFZbP8XqOcODuQcH0GeXOG0NQ0kF2K8SwtHiip9XCTLb6UqhWpY4T6ITjaFCIvRUqprsEZpNm-H8vrijW40VdJifHr1toeAsw_oLbAjXKNDXjPX10SY5kLqBTKCpCVsr8BGjwZ5CNLgE-keCAuBekhJFS271o7RQQMAaYBnQgVFjRqlnzqBZxJtR0K8sdsFLOCX-XEC6MhIWkF/https%3A%2F%2Fmainframe.community%2F



Just what we need: Yet another nascent mainframe forum that will die on the 
vine. Not that community is a bad thing, it's not-but
moving it from this list has been tried repeatedly: mainframezone, SHARE 
forums, and a few more I can't remember.



While it might in principle be better than this list, it seems a stretch to 
expect it to take over. And fragmentation is almost
certainly not a good thing.



...phsiii


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Carmen Vitullo]

I thought I recognized your name, I was there back in the day when all the 
members of my MF team quit, and I was left to sort out z/os installs SYSPLEX , 
MAS...I/O def... I reached out here for some help and got very little, I found 
that site over 10 years ago maybe and got some good help from folks I knew that 
were mentors, I never knew they started promoting ads. 
thanks for pointing that out 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Sri h Kolusu"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 1:01:41 PM 
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community 

> well then - they miss out on me, I've got free answers, and I know a 
> lot of folks - beginners mostly that received good help. 

I was a member of those sites and provided numerous answers (skolusu) and 
quit when they started forcing ads. 

>I have much more work to do than research other sites. 

I only pointed out because you are promoting a sham site. Nothing against 
you. 


Thanks, 
Kolusu 

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Seymour J Metz]

I used to think that IE was as bad as it got, but ?Fairfax County Public 
Libraries switched to edge (I call it edgey) and that was worse.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 12:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Wow, "corporate-required Internet Explorer"! Your company needs to
review some of it's standards!!

On 2020-06-15 12:30 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
> corporate-required Internet Explorer

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Sri h Kolusu]

> well then - they miss out on me, I've got free answers, and I know a
> lot of folks - beginners mostly that received good help.

I was a member of those sites and provided numerous answers (skolusu) and
quit when they started forcing ads.

>I have much more work to do than research other sites.

I only pointed out because you are promoting a sham site.  Nothing against
you.


Thanks,
Kolusu

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Carmen Vitullo]

well then - they miss out on me, I've got free answers, and I know a lot of 
folks - beginners mostly that received good help. 
I'll have to trust you when you say they sell answers, I have much more work to 
do than research other sites. 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Sri h Kolusu"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 12:40:47 PM 
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community 

>>> sell answers? first I heard, pathetic ? 

They DO sell the answers. go check on the parent site. I consider any one 
selling the knowledge of other is pathetic. 

> seems someone is confused the site I was referring to is 

I am crystal clear on the sites you refer. No confusion involved. The site 
your refer is also being run by the same folks that I mentioned earlier. 


Thanks, 
Kolusu 

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 
06/15/2020 10:28:44 AM: 

> From: Carmen Vitullo  
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Date: 06/15/2020 10:28 AM 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: New Mainframe Community 
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  
> 
>  answers? I am ? 
> 
> sell answers? first I heard, pathetic ? wow - some forum members are 
> admins or have helped beginners on that site, some novice users get 
> good advice and help 
> seems someone is confused 
> the site I was referring to is 
> ibmmainframeforum.com/index.php 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carmen Vitullo 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> 
> From: "Sri h Kolusu"  
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:11:28 AM 
> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community 
> 
> Carmen, 
> 
> You are advertising a site that leaches answers and sells the answers? 
> Sites that you refer stemmed out of this site. It is such a pathetic site 

> that they even copy the name of the site. 
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url? 
> 
u=http-3A__www.mvsforums.com_helpboards_viewtopic.php-3Ft-3D584-26highlight-3Dmcmillan=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-
 

> siA1ZOg=IAduPlMgORoDwSg-QJfFI61PqQWHjCo5brtkXopHqZk=w- 
> qy_fFR4yfEEGwP6Rz-AQF1VW9ngzB2RBmXdwQdVWI=dcj- 
> i31Yp0OprusanJX_qSPXdRGctSBIvPewKloImUo= 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url? 
> 
u=http-3A__www.mvsforums.com_helpboards_viewtopic.php-3Ft-3D821-26highlight-3Dmcmillan=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-
 

> siA1ZOg=IAduPlMgORoDwSg-QJfFI61PqQWHjCo5brtkXopHqZk=w- 
> qy_fFR4yfEEGwP6Rz- 
> AQF1VW9ngzB2RBmXdwQdVWI=jXNPS61RtEzoHJ3Bt0OYEjyFfXTyYw8QNgPlcZ1uEcM= 

> 
> Thanks, 
> Kolusu 
> 
> 
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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Sri h Kolusu]

>>> sell answers? first I heard, pathetic ?

They DO sell the answers. go check on the parent site. I consider any one
selling the knowledge of other is pathetic.

> seems someone is confused  the site I was referring to is

I am crystal clear on the sites you refer.  No confusion involved. The site
your refer is also being run by the same folks that I mentioned earlier.


Thanks,
Kolusu

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
06/15/2020 10:28:44 AM:

> From: Carmen Vitullo 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 06/15/2020 10:28 AM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: New Mainframe Community
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
>  answers? I am ?
>
> sell answers? first I heard, pathetic ? wow - some forum members are
> admins or have helped beginners on that site, some novice users get
> good advice and help
> seems someone is confused
> the site I was referring to is
> ibmmainframeforum.com/index.php
>
>
>
>
> Carmen Vitullo
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Sri h Kolusu" 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:11:28 AM
> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>
> Carmen,
>
> You are advertising a site that leaches answers and sells the answers?
> Sites that you refer stemmed out of this site. It is such a pathetic site

> that they even copy the name of the site.
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?
>
u=http-3A__www.mvsforums.com_helpboards_viewtopic.php-3Ft-3D584-26highlight-3Dmcmillan=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-

> siA1ZOg=IAduPlMgORoDwSg-QJfFI61PqQWHjCo5brtkXopHqZk=w-
> qy_fFR4yfEEGwP6Rz-AQF1VW9ngzB2RBmXdwQdVWI=dcj-
> i31Yp0OprusanJX_qSPXdRGctSBIvPewKloImUo=
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?
>
u=http-3A__www.mvsforums.com_helpboards_viewtopic.php-3Ft-3D821-26highlight-3Dmcmillan=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-

> siA1ZOg=IAduPlMgORoDwSg-QJfFI61PqQWHjCo5brtkXopHqZk=w-
> qy_fFR4yfEEGwP6Rz-
> AQF1VW9ngzB2RBmXdwQdVWI=jXNPS61RtEzoHJ3Bt0OYEjyFfXTyYw8QNgPlcZ1uEcM=

>
> Thanks,
> Kolusu
>
>
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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Carmen Vitullo]

 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:11:28 AM 
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community 

Carmen, 

You are advertising a site that leaches answers and sells the answers? 
Sites that you refer stemmed out of this site. It is such a pathetic site 
that they even copy the name of the site. 

http://www.mvsforums.com/helpboards/viewtopic.php?t=584=mcmillan 
http://www.mvsforums.com/helpboards/viewtopic.php?t=821=mcmillan 

Thanks, 
Kolusu 


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Tom Brennan]

That does seem a little unusual.  It makes me wonder if Google can get 
to the notes for outside indexing.  Tested: Apparently not.  A google 
search for the URL comes up with only a few hits, and all bring me to 
the logon page when I click on them.


On 6/15/2020 8:25 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote:

I need an account, I cannot view the community first?
Other than this forum I like IBM MAINFRAME forum, I can help others and still 
ask basic questions here without getting flamed :)


IBM MAINFRAME FORUM • For Mainframe Beginners and Students





Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "Lionel B Dyck" 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 4:17:52 PM
Subject: New Mainframe Community

Check this out - looks new but promising



https://mainframe.community/





Lionel B. Dyck <
Website:  https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden




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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Sri h Kolusu]

Carmen,

You are advertising a site that leaches answers and sells the answers?
Sites that you refer stemmed out of this site.  It is such a pathetic site
that they even copy the name of the site.

http://www.mvsforums.com/helpboards/viewtopic.php?t=584=mcmillan
http://www.mvsforums.com/helpboards/viewtopic.php?t=821=mcmillan

Thanks,
Kolusu


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Carmen Vitullo]

I need an account, I cannot view the community first? 
Other than this forum I like IBM MAINFRAME forum, I can help others and still 
ask basic questions here without getting flamed :) 


IBM MAINFRAME FORUM • For Mainframe Beginners and Students 





Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Lionel B Dyck"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 4:17:52 PM 
Subject: New Mainframe Community 

Check this out - looks new but promising 



https://mainframe.community/ 





Lionel B. Dyck < 
Website:  https://www.lbdsoftware.com 

"Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what 
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden 




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Re: New Mainframe Community

[ITschak Mugzach]

If this list is not "broken", why look for alternatives?
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM comming son  *




On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:24 PM Charles Mills  wrote:

> I thought the StackOverflow forum was extremely promising but it died on
> the
> vine.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Phil Smith III
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2020 6:59 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community
>
> Lionel B Dyck wrote:
>
> >Check this out - looks new but promising
>
> >https://mainframe.community/
>
>
>
> Just what we need: Yet another nascent mainframe forum that will die on the
> vine. Not that community is a bad thing, it's not-but
> moving it from this list has been tried repeatedly: mainframezone, SHARE
> forums, and a few more I can't remember.
>
>
>
> While it might in principle be better than this list, it seems a stretch to
> expect it to take over. And fragmentation is almost
> certainly not a good thing.
>
>
>
> ...phsiii
>
>
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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2020-06-15 00:49, David Crayford wrote:
Wow, "corporate-required Internet Explorer"! Your company needs to 
review some of it's standards!!


We still encounter this now and then in our customer base.

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

And I don't like the fact that I have to subscribe and give (no idea how much 
of) my personal info first, before they even give the slightest information 
about themselves.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: 15 June 2020 16:24
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

I thought the StackOverflow forum was extremely promising but it died on the
vine.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Phil Smith III
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2020 6:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>Check this out - looks new but promising

>https://mainframe.community/

 

Just what we need: Yet another nascent mainframe forum that will die on the
vine. Not that community is a bad thing, it's not-but
moving it from this list has been tried repeatedly: mainframezone, SHARE
forums, and a few more I can't remember.

 

While it might in principle be better than this list, it seems a stretch to
expect it to take over. And fragmentation is almost
certainly not a good thing.

 

...phsiii


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Charles Mills]

I thought the StackOverflow forum was extremely promising but it died on the
vine.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Phil Smith III
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2020 6:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>Check this out - looks new but promising

>https://mainframe.community/

 

Just what we need: Yet another nascent mainframe forum that will die on the
vine. Not that community is a bad thing, it's not-but
moving it from this list has been tried repeatedly: mainframezone, SHARE
forums, and a few more I can't remember.

 

While it might in principle be better than this list, it seems a stretch to
expect it to take over. And fragmentation is almost
certainly not a good thing.

 

...phsiii


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[David Crayford]

Wow, "corporate-required Internet Explorer"! Your company needs to 
review some of it's standards!!


On 2020-06-15 12:30 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

corporate-required Internet Explorer


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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Farley, Peter x23353]

And if you try to access that link with a corporate-required Internet Explorer 
browser, you will be told that Mattermost doesn't support your outdated 
browser, and you should change to one of the new more modern ones you doofus.

Not what I would call "friendly".

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2020 9:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Mainframe Community

Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>Check this out - looks new but promising

>https://mainframe.community/

Just what we need: Yet another nascent mainframe forum that will die on the 
vine. Not that community is a bad thing, it's not-but moving it from this list 
has been tried repeatedly: mainframezone, SHARE forums, and a few more I can't 
remember.

While it might in principle be better than this list, it seems a stretch to 
expect it to take over. And fragmentation is almost certainly not a good thing.

...

This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee 
and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader 
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Re: New Mainframe Community

[Phil Smith III]

Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>Check this out - looks new but promising

>https://mainframe.community/

 

Just what we need: Yet another nascent mainframe forum that will die on the 
vine. Not that community is a bad thing, it's not-but
moving it from this list has been tried repeatedly: mainframezone, SHARE 
forums, and a few more I can't remember.

 

While it might in principle be better than this list, it seems a stretch to 
expect it to take over. And fragmentation is almost
certainly not a good thing.

 

...phsiii


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