Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Melinda Shore melinda.sh...@gmail.comwrote: On 8/6/13 11:58 AM, Joe Abley wrote: For what it's worth (not much) I would miss the line at the mic. There are useful conversations that happen within the line that I think we would lose if the mic followed the speaker, and I also think that pipelining the people at the mic promotes more fluid conversation. But these are minor points, and I'm mainly just waxing nostalgic. I actually think that this is not a small point. The people in line are the people with issues and the ability to hash stuff out quickly is pretty nice They can also negotiate and reorganize each other. For example, if I am at the mic wanting to raise a new topic and there is someone with an issue on the current one they will usually ask if they can cut in. Another frequent case is when someone raises an issue and someone actually knows the answer. That sort of thing can be pretty important when a statement of fact is made that is wrong, particularly when it is the alleged opinion of someone else. In Orlando someone asserted X had stated Y would happen which being in the security area and knowing that Y was idiotic and X was most unlikely to have said it, I pointed out that the speaker had likely misunderstood. When I later met up with X they were surprised anyone would think they thought Y because that would be idiotic. -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
Just thinking out aloud What about a web-cam (maybe a wireless one? Never tried to use them...) right under the mic, so that it takes a picture of the badge and shows it on the screen? Everyone (right?) in a meeting has a badge wit his/her/its :) name and affiliation, so privacy concerns are just comparable to those of wearing a badge. Of course, this is not applicable to jabber participants, in that case you need a different solution. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:41 AM, Henning Schulzrinne h...@cs.columbia.edu wrote: Yes, a group from my lab did this, using short-range RFID. (The range was about 1-2 inches.) It required a bit of a setup which made it hard to replicate at scale, but it worked reasonably well. Privacy concerns are an issue, but you'd have to be very close to the person to sense the card (and you can obviously leave it behind any time you'd want to) - it would be much more convenient to track people using BlueTooth or WiFi MAC addresses, if you'd be so inclined, or just use video cameras. Yes, you can use long-range directional antennas to increase your read range, but those would be rather hard to hide. As was mentioned, the hotel room cards use very much the same technology, and you can't really leave them behind when you leave the building. Henning On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Dan York y...@isoc.org wrote: On the topic of badge-sensing at the mic, I seem to recall that we had this working at an IETF sometime back in the RAI working groups. It was maybe 4 or 5 years ago and I think it may have been some student(s) under Henning Schulzrinne at Columbia... but I am not sure about that. I remember that when you went to the mic you put your badge up to this sensor and your name appeared in the jabber room. We used it in several of the RAI sessions at that IETF. Unfortunately I don't remember how well it worked or why it wasn't continued. There may be someone out there who can provide some insight. (And if it was Henning's students we can just drop him a note.) Dan -- Dan York y...@isoc.org +1-802-735-1624 skype:danyork http://twitter.com/danyork On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Paul Aitken pait...@cisco.com wrote: I've remotely participated in several IETFs. I find that the biggest problem with remote attendance is the lack of visual cues. I've come to realise just how important these are in a meeting. -are people paying attention, are they interested / confused / distracted / bored? Also there's no way for local attendees (in the WG room) to know that remote attendees are at the mic and whose turn it is to speak. There's been some discussion on the 87attendees mailer about badge sensing at the mic - whether QR codes, NFC, or RFID. This could help remote attendees too. eg, see what they did with NFC + mic here: http://www.5thbar.me/blog/2012/09/14/nfc-enabled-badges-at-the-5thbar-mobile-marketing-forum/ P. ___ iaoc-rps mailing list iaoc-...@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iaoc-rps
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 08/07/2013 02:26 AM, Riccardo Bernardini wrote: Just thinking out aloud What about a web-cam (maybe a wireless one? Never tried to use them...) right under the mic, so that it takes a picture of the badge and shows it on the screen? Everyone (right?) in a meeting has a badge wit his/her/its:) name and affiliation, so privacy concerns are just comparable to those of wearing a badge. Except that this would preclude use of portable/wireless microphones to let people engage in more effective conversation. Even if there continues to be some sort of queue or other discipline to determine who speaks next, we need to get away from the habit of forcing people to walk through narrow rows of chairs and stand in a queue behind a fixed-location microphone in order to speak. Keith
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On Aug 6, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: Maybe attaching such a sign to the MIC from the start could additionally improve the situation. There were signs like this attached to all the mics in all the rooms at this IETF. I never looked at them, and I doubt anybody else did either. Certainly the evidence would suggest that they did not! :}
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
Ted Lemon wrote: Ironically, this IETF everyone who stayed at the Intercontinental was walking around with an RFID key in their pocket the whole meeting. Could there be a conflict if IETF badges also have RFID tags attached, eg we get Room 1283 at the mic? P.
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
Joe Abley wrote: Or perhaps future IETFers.app releases could talk using bluetooth to a transponder duct-taped to the mic stand and realise the same outcomes (and if you don't like that, you can always touch no in the appropriate place on your phone). Instead of requiring additional hardware on the mic stand + duct tape: Zoosh, a new technology developed by Sunnyvale startup Naratte http://www.naratte.com/, aims to deliver all the benefits of NFC (near-field communication) with any device that has a speaker and microphone. Instead of relying on NFC chips, Zoosh uses ultrasound to perform secure mobile transactions. http://venturebeat.com/2011/06/19/narattes-zoosh-enables-nfc-with-just-a-speaker-and-microphone/ Obviously this requires everyone to carry an app-enabled device to the mic. P.
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On Aug 7, 2013, at 2:26 AM, Riccardo Bernardini framefri...@gmail.com wrote: Just thinking out aloud What about a web-cam (maybe a wireless one? Never tried to use them...) right under the mic, so that it takes a picture of the badge and shows it on the screen? Everyone (right?) in a meeting has a badge wit his/her/its :) name and affiliation, so privacy concerns are just comparable to those of wearing a badge. Ummm... methinks female participants might find such a camera offensive. -hadriel
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
would this mandate wearing badges only in certain locations, e.g. over the left breast? /bill On 6August2013Tuesday, at 23:26, Riccardo Bernardini wrote: Just thinking out aloud What about a web-cam (maybe a wireless one? Never tried to use them...) right under the mic, so that it takes a picture of the badge and shows it on the screen? Everyone (right?) in a meeting has a badge wit his/her/its :) name and affiliation, so privacy concerns are just comparable to those of wearing a badge. Of course, this is not applicable to jabber participants, in that case you need a different solution. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:41 AM, Henning Schulzrinne h...@cs.columbia.edu wrote: Yes, a group from my lab did this, using short-range RFID. (The range was about 1-2 inches.) It required a bit of a setup which made it hard to replicate at scale, but it worked reasonably well. Privacy concerns are an issue, but you'd have to be very close to the person to sense the card (and you can obviously leave it behind any time you'd want to) - it would be much more convenient to track people using BlueTooth or WiFi MAC addresses, if you'd be so inclined, or just use video cameras. Yes, you can use long-range directional antennas to increase your read range, but those would be rather hard to hide. As was mentioned, the hotel room cards use very much the same technology, and you can't really leave them behind when you leave the building. Henning On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Dan York y...@isoc.org wrote: On the topic of badge-sensing at the mic, I seem to recall that we had this working at an IETF sometime back in the RAI working groups. It was maybe 4 or 5 years ago and I think it may have been some student(s) under Henning Schulzrinne at Columbia... but I am not sure about that. I remember that when you went to the mic you put your badge up to this sensor and your name appeared in the jabber room. We used it in several of the RAI sessions at that IETF. Unfortunately I don't remember how well it worked or why it wasn't continued. There may be someone out there who can provide some insight. (And if it was Henning's students we can just drop him a note.) Dan -- Dan York y...@isoc.org +1-802-735-1624 skype:danyork http://twitter.com/danyork On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Paul Aitken pait...@cisco.com wrote: I've remotely participated in several IETFs. I find that the biggest problem with remote attendance is the lack of visual cues. I've come to realise just how important these are in a meeting. -are people paying attention, are they interested / confused / distracted / bored? Also there's no way for local attendees (in the WG room) to know that remote attendees are at the mic and whose turn it is to speak. There's been some discussion on the 87attendees mailer about badge sensing at the mic - whether QR codes, NFC, or RFID. This could help remote attendees too. eg, see what they did with NFC + mic here: http://www.5thbar.me/blog/2012/09/14/nfc-enabled-badges-at-the-5thbar-mobile-marketing-forum/ P. ___ iaoc-rps mailing list iaoc-...@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iaoc-rps
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 8/5/2013 2:15 AM, Dan York wrote: On the topic of badge-sensing at the mic, I seem to recall that we had this working at an IETF sometime back in the RAI working groups. It was maybe 4 or 5 years ago and I think it may have been some student(s) under Henning Schulzrinne at Columbia... but I am not sure about that. I remember that when you went to the mic you put your badge up to this sensor and your name appeared in the jabber room. We used it in several of the RAI sessions at that IETF. Unfortunately I don't remember how well it worked or why it wasn't continued. There may be someone out there who can provide some insight. (And if it was Henning's students we can just drop him a note.) It was an experiment. It was awkward and inaccurate. It also raised basic privacy concerns, what with wearing something that can be tracked as you move around. An entirely different approach would be to have all speakers make a 'reservation' into a single meetecho (or whatever) online queue, and then get called in order, whether local or remote and independent of what microphone they are at. This gets accurate identification into the online system, with the entry task distributed. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On the topic of badge-sensing at the mic, I seem to recall that we had this working at an IETF sometime back in the RAI working groups. It was maybe 4 or 5 years ago and I think it may have been some student(s) under Henning Schulzrinne at Columbia... but I am not sure about that. I remember that when you went to the mic you put your badge up to this sensor and your name appeared in the jabber room. We used it in several of the RAI sessions at that IETF. Unfortunately I don't remember how well it worked or why it wasn't continued. There may be someone out there who can provide some insight. (And if it was Henning's students we can just drop him a note.) Dan -- Dan York y...@isoc.org +1-802-735-1624 skype:danyork http://twitter.com/danyork On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Paul Aitken pait...@cisco.com wrote: I've remotely participated in several IETFs. I find that the biggest problem with remote attendance is the lack of visual cues. I've come to realise just how important these are in a meeting. -are people paying attention, are they interested / confused / distracted / bored? Also there's no way for local attendees (in the WG room) to know that remote attendees are at the mic and whose turn it is to speak. There's been some discussion on the 87attendees mailer about badge sensing at the mic - whether QR codes, NFC, or RFID. This could help remote attendees too. eg, see what they did with NFC + mic here: http://www.5thbar.me/blog/2012/09/14/nfc-enabled-badges-at-the-5thbar-mobile-marketing-forum/ P. ___ iaoc-rps mailing list iaoc-...@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iaoc-rps
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: An entirely different approach would be to have all speakers make a 'reservation' into a single meetecho (or whatever) online queue, and then get called in order, whether local or remote and independent of what microphone they are at. This gets accurate identification into the online system, with the entry task distributed. +1. And move the microphones to the people, rather than the other way around. We can easily have three or four microphones that can play leap-frog around the room. -- Michael Richardson mcr+i...@sandelman.ca, Sandelman Software Works pgpbuKd5jXtF2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 2013-08-06, at 11:27, Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: On 8/5/2013 2:15 AM, Dan York wrote: [...] I remember that when you went to the mic you put your badge up to this sensor and your name appeared in the jabber room. ... and the main screen in the room, if we're thinking about the same experiment. I seem to think it might have been in Hiroshima. It was an experiment. It was awkward and inaccurate. It also raised basic privacy concerns, what with wearing something that can be tracked as you move around. I thought it was less awkward and inaccurate than relying on poly-accented and rushed (or missing) announcements of name and affiliation through the microphone. It was an improvement for jabber scribes, wg chairs trying to do minutes, remote participants and people in the room who are interested in who is talking, but not interested enough to stand up and demand that the name and affiliation be repeated. I remember the privacy concerns being expressed, but I also have been subscribed to more XXattendees mailing lists than I care to remember, and I had compartmentalised both sets of complaints into the same bucket that usually makes me unsubscribe from XXattendees by Tuesday. The NFC badge idea was a good one, I think, and I think it should happen again (even if it's opt-in at registration time, to reduce anxiety for those worried about their loss of privacy in a public meeting.) Or perhaps future IETFers.app releases could talk using bluetooth to a transponder duct-taped to the mic stand and realise the same outcomes (and if you don't like that, you can always touch no in the appropriate place on your phone). Joe
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: It was an experiment. It was awkward and inaccurate. It also raised basic privacy concerns, what with wearing something that can be tracked as you move around. Ironically, this IETF everyone who stayed at the Intercontinental was walking around with an RFID key in their pocket the whole meeting. How many of us put them in faraday cages? I thought the experiment in Hiroshima went well, and wish we had made it standard practice. It is _really_ hard to get people to say their names consistently in a way that is intelligible to the note-taker; I would go so far as to say that this is unachievable.
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: An entirely different approach would be to have all speakers make a 'reservation' into a single meetecho (or whatever) online queue, and then get called in order, whether local or remote and independent of what microphone they are at. This gets accurate identification into the online system, with the entry task distributed. I would not mind this system intensely, but bear in mind that it requires everybody to bring a mobile device of some sort that can be used to do this registration, and they will have to keep that device out and active during all meetings. If their battery dies, they can no longer participate, or will require exception handling.
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
Ironically, this IETF everyone who stayed at the Intercontinental was walking around with an RFID key in their pocket the whole meeting. How many of us put them in faraday cages? I put all of my cards in a faraday cage, but perhaps that's just me, and because I carry an RFID passport card. R's, John
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 06/08/13 18:31, Michael Richardson wrote: Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: An entirely different approach would be to have all speakers make a 'reservation' into a single meetecho (or whatever) online queue, and then get called in order, whether local or remote and independent of what microphone they are at. This gets accurate identification into the online system, with the entry task distributed. +1. +1 too. And move the microphones to the people, rather than the other way around. This is indeed friendly, although standing up to walk a bit is also good, at least f2f participants won't sit on chairs the whole day.. adding this option to the existing one will be nice. Cheers, Aaron -- Michael Richardson mcr+i...@sandelman.ca, Sandelman Software Works
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 8/6/2013 12:15 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: An entirely different approach would be to have all speakers make a 'reservation' into a single meetecho (or whatever) online queue, and then get called in order, whether local or remote and independent of what microphone they are at. This gets accurate identification into the online system, with the entry task distributed. I would not mind this system intensely, but bear in mind that it requires everybody to bring a mobile device of some sort that can be used to do this registration, and they will have to keep that device out and active during all meetings. If their battery dies, they can no longer participate, or will require exception handling. Lean over to a neighbor and ask them to put you into the queue. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 8/6/13 11:58 AM, Joe Abley wrote: For what it's worth (not much) I would miss the line at the mic. There are useful conversations that happen within the line that I think we would lose if the mic followed the speaker, and I also think that pipelining the people at the mic promotes more fluid conversation. But these are minor points, and I'm mainly just waxing nostalgic. I actually think that this is not a small point. The people in line are the people with issues and the ability to hash stuff out quickly is pretty nice. Melinda
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 2013-08-06, at 15:54, Aaron Yi DING aaron.d...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: On 06/08/13 18:31, Michael Richardson wrote: And move the microphones to the people, rather than the other way around. This is indeed friendly, although standing up to walk a bit is also good, at least f2f participants won't sit on chairs the whole day.. adding this option to the existing one will be nice. For what it's worth (not much) I would miss the line at the mic. There are useful conversations that happen within the line that I think we would lose if the mic followed the speaker, and I also think that pipelining the people at the mic promotes more fluid conversation. But these are minor points, and I'm mainly just waxing nostalgic. Joe
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On Aug 6, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Michael Richardson mcr+i...@sandelman.ca wrote: We can easily have three or four microphones that can play leap-frog around the room. +1 Of course, then we need a facilitator to wrest it away from filibusterers or simply a mechanism for the chairs to mute a mic.
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On Aug 6, 2013, at 4:05 PM, Paul Aitken pait...@cisco.com wrote: Could there be a conflict if IETF badges also have RFID tags attached, eg we get Room 1283 at the mic? No. Only known IDs would register. The RFID badge just has a number—it doesn't say Room 1283.
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
[to no one in particular] Uhhh... I can't tell if you folks are being serious about this idea or not, but in case you are being serious... ISTM there's such a thing as too much technology being a bad thing. If you think technical glitches now-and-then cause issues with remote participants today, wait until physical participants have to deal with glitches in something like this. KISS isn't just a rock-band from the 70's, it's also a useful principle known to many today. If the problem is we don't know who's speaking, then fix that problem. In WGs I go to, both the WG chairs and the jabber scribes regularly yell NAME! if someone forgets to say it. Unlike DNS Ops, this isn't rocket science. Besides, it's not a bad thing to make people get in mic lines, if for no other reason than to have a small barrier threshold for folks to decide it's worth it to say something.[1] -hadriel [1] yes, I recognize the irony in this statement, since I get up to the mic every 15 seconds and say inane things. We can't stop all people like me from wasting meeting time, we can just reduce the number of similar people wasting time. On Aug 6, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Ted Lemon ted.le...@nominum.com wrote: On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: An entirely different approach would be to have all speakers make a 'reservation' into a single meetecho (or whatever) online queue, and then get called in order, whether local or remote and independent of what microphone they are at. This gets accurate identification into the online system, with the entry task distributed. I would not mind this system intensely, but bear in mind that it requires everybody to bring a mobile device of some sort that can be used to do this registration, and they will have to keep that device out and active during all meetings. If their battery dies, they can no longer participate, or will require exception handling.
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On Aug 6, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Hadriel Kaplan hadriel.kap...@oracle.com wrote: If the problem is we don't know who's speaking, then fix that problem. In WGs I go to, both the WG chairs and the jabber scribes regularly yell NAME! if someone forgets to say it. Unlike DNS Ops, this isn't rocket science. This doesn't work very well. In one meeting where I was scribing this IETF, I had to shout NAME at the same person several times, because he didn't state his name clearly enough for me to be sure I'd gotten it, and so it didn't stick. I hate doing this—I think it's disruptive, and nobody likes getting yelled at. I certainly don't like _having_ to yell.
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 08/06/2013 01:46 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: On Aug 6, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Hadriel Kaplan hadriel.kap...@oracle.com wrote: If the problem is we don't know who's speaking, then fix that problem. In WGs I go to, both the WG chairs and the jabber scribes regularly yell NAME! if someone forgets to say it. Unlike DNS Ops, this isn't rocket science. This doesn't work very well. In one meeting where I was scribing this IETF, I had to shout NAME at the same person several times, because he didn't state his name clearly enough for me to be sure I'd gotten it, and so it didn't stick. I hate doing this—I think it's disruptive, and nobody likes getting yelled at. I certainly don't like _having_ to yell. Then come up with an alternate proposal. Fixing this problem is non-optional.
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 08/06/2013 12:58 PM, Joe Abley wrote: For what it's worth (not much) I would miss the line at the mic. There are useful conversations that happen within the line that I think we would lose if the mic followed the speaker If the conversations are useful, should they not be happening as part of the meeting?
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On 08/06/2013 04:03 PM, Melinda Shore wrote: On 8/6/13 11:58 AM, Joe Abley wrote: For what it's worth (not much) I would miss the line at the mic. There are useful conversations that happen within the line that I think we would lose if the mic followed the speaker, and I also think that pipelining the people at the mic promotes more fluid conversation. But these are minor points, and I'm mainly just waxing nostalgic. I actually think that this is not a small point. The people in line are the people with issues and the ability to hash stuff out quickly is pretty nice. This only works if the queue is fairly short. When the queue gets longer, and the microphones are in fixed positions, it's not unusual for the topic to jump around from one speaker to the next - and then each speaker has to re-establish what context he's talking about. It's very hard to get convergence under those conditions. I'd actually like to see the microphone queue discipline replaced with something that could handle more than two currently active speakers. Multiple wireless microphones would probably work well enough, if we could change the room setup to make access to those microphones fairer. (though it could still be challenging to incorporate remote speakers into the mix) Keith
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
Doug Barton wrote: Ted Lemon wrote: M, Hadriel Kaplan hadriel.kap...@oracle.com wrote: If the problem is we don't know who's speaking, then fix that problem. This doesn't work very well. [...] nobody likes getting yelled at. I certainly don't like _having_ to yell. Then come up with an alternate proposal. Fixing this problem is non-optional. I would neither want to yell at other, nor enjoy being yelled at. Still I might need a reminder. How about a visual cues that would/should work for most participants in a f2f meeting? Supply the chairs (~8 rooms?) with signs at least A4 size, or A3 maybe even using all caps and something like: TELL US YOUR NAME, PLEASE (and affiliation) The chair could raise the sign towards persons at the mic when they forget, slowly moving it up in the air and over the head (and ultimately waving it...) until the message has been received. Maybe attaching such a sign to the MIC from the start could additionally improve the situation. -Martin
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
On Aug 6, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Ted Lemon ted.le...@nominum.com wrote: On Aug 6, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Hadriel Kaplan hadriel.kap...@oracle.com wrote: If the problem is we don't know who's speaking, then fix that problem. In WGs I go to, both the WG chairs and the jabber scribes regularly yell NAME! if someone forgets to say it. Unlike DNS Ops, this isn't rocket science. This doesn't work very well. In one meeting where I was scribing this IETF, I had to shout NAME at the same person several times, because he didn't state his name clearly enough for me to be sure I'd gotten it, and so it didn't stick. I hate doing this—I think it's disruptive, and nobody likes getting yelled at. I certainly don't like _having_ to yell. Yeah, the best scenario (other than the person just remembering to say their name), is for the Chairs to remind them - because they have their own microphones so they don't have to actually yell. But another thing that works well is to have the jabber scribe sit in a seat right next to the microphone, because then they don't have to yell either. -hadriel
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
Yes, a group from my lab did this, using short-range RFID. (The range was about 1-2 inches.) It required a bit of a setup which made it hard to replicate at scale, but it worked reasonably well. Privacy concerns are an issue, but you'd have to be very close to the person to sense the card (and you can obviously leave it behind any time you'd want to) - it would be much more convenient to track people using BlueTooth or WiFi MAC addresses, if you'd be so inclined, or just use video cameras. Yes, you can use long-range directional antennas to increase your read range, but those would be rather hard to hide. As was mentioned, the hotel room cards use very much the same technology, and you can't really leave them behind when you leave the building. Henning On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Dan York y...@isoc.org wrote: On the topic of badge-sensing at the mic, I seem to recall that we had this working at an IETF sometime back in the RAI working groups. It was maybe 4 or 5 years ago and I think it may have been some student(s) under Henning Schulzrinne at Columbia... but I am not sure about that. I remember that when you went to the mic you put your badge up to this sensor and your name appeared in the jabber room. We used it in several of the RAI sessions at that IETF. Unfortunately I don't remember how well it worked or why it wasn't continued. There may be someone out there who can provide some insight. (And if it was Henning's students we can just drop him a note.) Dan -- Dan York y...@isoc.org +1-802-735-1624 skype:danyork http://twitter.com/danyork On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Paul Aitken pait...@cisco.com wrote: I've remotely participated in several IETFs. I find that the biggest problem with remote attendance is the lack of visual cues. I've come to realise just how important these are in a meeting. -are people paying attention, are they interested / confused / distracted / bored? Also there's no way for local attendees (in the WG room) to know that remote attendees are at the mic and whose turn it is to speak. There's been some discussion on the 87attendees mailer about badge sensing at the mic - whether QR codes, NFC, or RFID. This could help remote attendees too. eg, see what they did with NFC + mic here: http://www.5thbar.me/blog/2012/09/14/nfc-enabled-badges-at-the-5thbar-mobile-marketing-forum/ P. ___ iaoc-rps mailing list iaoc-...@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iaoc-rps
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
Ironically, this IETF everyone who stayed at the Intercontinental was walking around with an RFID key in their pocket the whole meeting. How many of us put them in faraday cages? one. i made it a habit I thought the experiment in Hiroshima went well count me in the privacy concerns camp randy
Re: [iaoc-rps] RPS Accessibility
In article m2li4ew2nk.wl%ra...@psg.com you write: Ironically, this IETF everyone who stayed at the Intercontinental was walking around with an RFID key in their pocket the whole meeting. How many of us put them in faraday cages? one. i made it a habit Two. I have a wallet with a built-in tinfoil hat. http://www.idstronghold.com/RFID-Blocking-Secure-Wallet-Bi-Fold-10-Slots/productinfo/IDSH7005/
